Guild Wars 2

My two pence worth,

It’s their game and they can charge what the like for it. We don’t have to buy it.
That said.
Do I think its unfair that existing players cannot buy the expansion for cheaper? Everyone does.
Will it hurt sales of HoT? It already is.
Will it damage the developers reputation? It already has

glaphen.5230:

Ayrilana.1396:

glaphen.5230:

Ayrilana.1396:

glaphen.5230:

Ayrilana.1396:

glaphen.5230:

Ayrilana.1396:

I’ve attached something that should aid you in seeing how many maps there will be.

Whoa let me quickly recalculate the value of this. 29 for 50>4 for 50.

No expansion really provides the same amount of content as its core game. If quantity is all that’s important to you then don’t buy the expansion, or any others, until the total amount of maps reaches 29.

Based on the maps that can be vanquished, since I don’t feel like counting them, Prophecies had 54 maps, Factions had 33 maps, Nightfall had 34 maps, EotN had 15 maps. All of those, especially EotN, contained less maps than Prophecies for roughly the same price. Clearly they were all a rip off.

Yes and then other games expansions usually add a fluff level cap increases to restart the grind and put in new skills and still have five times the content this has and are usually cheaper. Yet those games still had far more content than this and far cheaper.

How do you know how much content the expansion has without playing it?

Because if you look at the link you posted you would see what it has.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2:_Heart_of_Thorns/Frequently_Asked_Questions#Features
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2:_Heart_of_Thorns
There’s some more answers. Hiding the contents of a purchase is a bad move so there is no way they have anything left unrevealed.

Anet likes to leave things for players to discover. Not everything in the expansion has been revealed. The story is one example.

If you feel fan fiction tier writing is worth the 50 then be my guest and use that to validate your purchase. Only thing ANet lets players discover are bugs that will never be fixed.

Again. I’m not solely buying the expansion for the story. I’m buying it for everything that it contains. I don’t see where you made the connection between mean listing one thing that Anet has not revealed yet to it being the reason why I bought the expansion.

phys.7689:

do you mean season 1+season2?
because season 2 probably takes like 4-5 hours tops to complete, whereas gw1 factions was more like 4 times that.

Both since you brought up both. Be aware that neither him nor I were talking about the Living Story. I only addressed that because you brought it up.

Season 2 takes much more time to do than 4-5 hours. Factions also does not take over 16-20 hours to beat. There are 14 missions (you only need to do 12) all of which can be done in 20-30 minutes at most. Players can do it in much less time since they often go for the bonuses as they do the story.

That leaves 26 primary quests of which only 22 are required. These take less than 10 hours to do. I will also note that time spent does not equate to story. You can have some things that take up time, such as getting the necessary faction rank or drawn out cut-scene), which offer very little to the story.

phys.7689:

As for levels, at the end of the day, how much content people feel you have is more important than the cost of development. If people get more satisfaction from playing a 1993 final fantasy than a 2015 final fantasy, it means they have went backwards.

Yes, how much content you get is an important factor. However you cannot quantify it as you get ‘X’ number of maps and ‘Y’ number of story episodes while comparing it to another game. All you’ll be doing is misleading yourself.

Just look at Guild Wars Prophecies maps and GW2 maps. Prophecies added 54 maps (that could be vanquished and excluding outposts) while GW2 only added 25 (excluding cities). They both sold for roughly the same price. Based on some people who focus solely on quantity, GW2 was a rip off since GW1 and GW2 maps are the same.

phys.7689:

I will say that gw2 strengths are a more active combat system and a more engaging world map. But those thing existed since release, and it doesn’t appear that Hot has evolved or improved on them much. It definitely has not expanded either one that much.

The enemies in HoT are different from those in core Tyria. In fact, even the enemies in DT and SW are different. They all have mechanics. Unless you equate killing an Orrian Noble as being the same as killing a Smokescale. HoT boss fights, as well as DT and SW boss fights, each have involved mechanics which you will not find in the rest of GW2.

TEX LOGAN.7830:

Do I think its unfair that existing players cannot buy the expansion for cheaper? Everyone does.

False. You cannot speak for everyone. Not everyone lacks the understanding of how things work in video games when it comes to expansions and prices.

TEX LOGAN.7830:

Will it hurt sales of HoT? It already is.

You have access to their sales data?

TEX LOGAN.7830:

Will it damage the developers reputation? It already has

How did you quantify that?

Ayrilana.1396:

Again. I’m not solely buying the expansion for the story. I’m buying it for everything that it contains. I don’t see where you made the connection between mean listing one thing that Anet has not revealed yet to it being the reason why I bought the expansion.

Alright if you feel that around a 15% addition to the few things they added in this expansion is worth the same price as the 100% at launch then there is no use arguing with you. That 15% is also only for the things added 29>4, 9>1, 5>1, there are still tons of other things in the base game this thing doesn’t touch on and the only other things it adds is a pointless grind for mastery to do things better in those 4 maps only and a worse version of a vanilla WoW map for PvP. Also I just looked at raids and they are apparently only 10 man dungeons when we already had 100+ man world bosses. Also if we want to add more, it adds 60+ cosmetics but there is 19 weapons and 19 armor slots so what is this 1.5 cosmetics per slot, how many are there normally in game since I already have at least 1,000 unlocked and don’t have even one collectible achievement maxed on my account. So the amount of added content to the total of the game is like what less than 5% of the base game for the same price?

glaphen.5230:

Ayrilana.1396:

Again. I’m not solely buying the expansion for the story. I’m buying it for everything that it contains. I don’t see where you made the connection between mean listing one thing that Anet has not revealed yet to it being the reason why I bought the expansion.

Alright if you feel that around a 15% addition to the few things they added in this expansion is worth the same price as the 100% at launch then there is no use arguing with you. That 15% is also only for the things added 29>4, 9>1, 5>1, there are still tons of other things in the base game this thing doesn’t touch on and the only other things it adds is a pointless grind for mastery to do things better in those 4 maps only and a worse version of a vanilla WoW map for PvP. Also I just looked at raids and they are apparently only 10 man dungeons when we already had 100+ man world bosses. Also if we want to add more, it adds 60+ cosmetics but there is 19 weapons and 19 armor slots so what is this 1.5 cosmetics per slot, how many are there normally in game since I already have at least 1,000 unlocked and don’t have even one collectible achievement maxed on my account. So the amount of added content to the total of the game is like what less than 5% of the base game for the same price?

Where are you pulling this 15% from or is that just some percentage you made up?

You seem to be under the false assumption that all games that cost $60 contain the same amount of content. They don’t and the same goes for the expansions. The amount of content from all of them vary. I paid like $50 for Super Mario Bros 3 and $50 for Mario 64. One contained 90 levels while the other contained 15. Based on your reasoning, the one that I paid that contained the 15 levels was a rip off.

The flaw in your logic is that you rely solely on quantity without considering any of the other factors. I can probably make two identical pizzas but cut one to have 6 slices and the other to have 12 slices. You’d think the one with 12 slices was the better deal.

Ayrilana.1396:

glaphen.5230:

Ayrilana.1396:

Again. I’m not solely buying the expansion for the story. I’m buying it for everything that it contains. I don’t see where you made the connection between mean listing one thing that Anet has not revealed yet to it being the reason why I bought the expansion.

Alright if you feel that around a 15% addition to the few things they added in this expansion is worth the same price as the 100% at launch then there is no use arguing with you. That 15% is also only for the things added 29>4, 9>1, 5>1, there are still tons of other things in the base game this thing doesn’t touch on and the only other things it adds is a pointless grind for mastery to do things better in those 4 maps only and a worse version of a vanilla WoW map for PvP. Also I just looked at raids and they are apparently only 10 man dungeons when we already had 100+ man world bosses. Also if we want to add more, it adds 60+ cosmetics but there is 19 weapons and 19 armor slots so what is this 1.5 cosmetics per slot, how many are there normally in game since I already have at least 1,000 unlocked and don’t have even one collectible achievement maxed on my account. So the amount of added content to the total of the game is like what less than 5% of the base game for the same price?

Where are you pulling this 15% from or is that just some percentage you made up?

You seem to be under the false assumption that all games that cost $60 contain the same amount of content. They don’t and the same goes for the expansions. The amount of content from all of them vary. I paid like $50 for Super Mario Bros 3 and $50 for Mario 64. One contained 90 levels while the other contained 15. Based on your reasoning, the one that I paid that contained the 15 levels was a rip off.

The flaw in your logic is that you rely solely on quantity without considering any of the other factors. I can probably make two identical pizzas but cut one to have 6 slices and the other to have 12 slices. You’d think the one with 12 slices was the better deal.

Pretty basic math 29 maps with 4 new ones, 9 classes with 1 new one, 5 trait lines with 1 new one. Sequels=/=Expansion, Single player=/=MMO. List the other factors please because I already listed everything this expansion has at least twice.

glaphen.5230:

Pretty basic math 29 maps with 4 new ones, 9 classes with 1 new one, 5 trait lines with 1 new one.

So you have an two identical pizzas.

The amount of pizza you get when it’s cut into 29 slices vs 4 slices is different.
The amount of pizza you get when it’s cut into 9 slices vs the whole pizza is different.

FYI: It’s 8 classes vs 1 new class. It’s also 9 new trait lines and not 5 with 1 new one.

glaphen.5230:

Sequels=/=Expansion

Content is content. If you truly believe you can’t compare then tell that to DistantStatic and anyone else that uses GW1 as a means to compare.

glaphen.5230:

Single player=/=MMO.

Doesn’t matter as the content is ratios between two single player games is similar to that of two MMO games. Especially when the content between the two single player games is being used to address a point that you are failing to understand such as a belief that everything comes down to quantity without any consideration to other factors.

glaphen.5230:

List the other factors please because I already listed everything this expansion has at least twice.

You listed quantities of maps and such. Two identical pizzas cut different ways still contain the same amount of pizza as the other. According to you they are different when in actuality they are the same. The reason why they are the same is but one of the factors that I’ve been trying to get through to you.

Ayrilana.1396:

glaphen.5230:

Pretty basic math 29 maps with 4 new ones, 9 classes with 1 new one, 5 trait lines with 1 new one.

So you have an two identical pizzas.

The amount of pizza you get when it’s cut into 29 slices vs 4 slices is different.
The amount of pizza you get when it’s cut into 9 slices vs the whole pizza is different.

FYI: It’s 8 classes vs 1 new class. It’s also 9 new trait lines and not 5 with 1 new one.

glaphen.5230:

Sequels=/=Expansion

Content is content. If you truly believe you can’t compare then tell that to DistantStatic and anyone else that uses GW1 as a means to compare.

glaphen.5230:

Single player=/=MMO.

Doesn’t matter as the content is ratios between two single player games is similar to that of two MMO games. Especially when the content between the two single player games is being used to address a point that you are failing to understand such as a belief that everything comes down to quantity without any consideration to other factors.

glaphen.5230:

List the other factors please because I already listed everything this expansion has at least twice.

You listed quantities of maps and such. Two identical pizzas cut different ways still contain the same amount of pizza as the other. According to you they are different when in actuality they are the same. The reason why they are the same is but one of the factors that I’ve been trying to get through to you.

29 entire pies of pizza>4, alright 8>1, 5 per class>1. Tell me the stories of the single player games with 1,000s of hours of content besides dwarf fortress. I don’t know how you think those 4 maps are as big as 29 somehow.

glaphen.5230:

29 entire pies of pizza>4, alright 8>1, 5 per class>1. Tell me the stories of the single player games with 1,000s of hours of content besides dwarf fortress. I don’t know how you think those 4 maps are as big as 29 somehow.

They don’t need to be as big as 29 maps. HoT is an expansion and not GW3 afterall. The cost for the expansion is 50$ which is pretty much standard for expansions.

If you think 50$ is too much than that’s your decision but judging from the beta weekends and what we’ve seen so far from the Verdant Brink map you’re gonna miss out big time when it comes to quality and content!

Straylight.7529:

glaphen.5230:

29 entire pies of pizza>4, alright 8>1, 5 per class>1. Tell me the stories of the single player games with 1,000s of hours of content besides dwarf fortress. I don’t know how you think those 4 maps are as big as 29 somehow.

They don’t need to be as big as 29 maps. HoT is an expansion and not GW3 afterall. The cost for the expansion is 50$ which is pretty much standard for expansions.

If you think 50$ is too much than that’s your decision but judging from the beta weekends and what we’ve seen so far from the Verdant Brink map you’re gonna miss out big time!

I have never seen an expansion offer so little for the same price as the base game, name me some other expansions like this.

glaphen.5230:

I have never seen an expansion offer so little for the same price as the base game, name me some other expansions like this.

Are you refering to expansions of MMO’s where you have to pay a monthly fee?

Straylight.7529:

glaphen.5230:

I have never seen an expansion offer so little for the same price as the base game, name me some other expansions like this.

Are you refering to expansions of MMO’s where you have to pay a monthly fee?

Yes any MMO, monthly fees/B2P/cash shops are models just like GW2 B2P plus cash shop if GW2 was a subscription game too it would have turned into Wildstar .50.

glaphen.5230:

Straylight.7529:

glaphen.5230:

I have never seen an expansion offer so little for the same price as the base game, name me some other expansions like this.

Are you refering to expansions of MMO’s where you have to pay a monthly fee?

Yes

Warlords of Draenor: Costs 50$ plus another 15$ per month. Does if offer more content per dollar than HoT?

Heavensward: Costs 40$ plus another 12-15$ per month. Does it offer more content per dollar than HoT?

Hell, no!

glaphen.5230:

29 entire pies of pizza>4, alright 8>1, 5 per class>1. Tell me the stories of the single player games with 1,000s of hours of content besides dwarf fortress. I don’t know how you think those 4 maps are as big as 29 somehow.

Umm. How about reading what I said. I said PIECES and not pies.

I’m not comparing single player games to MMO’s. Nowhere did I say that the 4 maps were as big as the 29. I really suggest you read my posts.

glaphen.5230:

Straylight.7529:

glaphen.5230:

29 entire pies of pizza>4, alright 8>1, 5 per class>1. Tell me the stories of the single player games with 1,000s of hours of content besides dwarf fortress. I don’t know how you think those 4 maps are as big as 29 somehow.

They don’t need to be as big as 29 maps. HoT is an expansion and not GW3 afterall. The cost for the expansion is 50$ which is pretty much standard for expansions.

If you think 50$ is too much than that’s your decision but judging from the beta weekends and what we’ve seen so far from the Verdant Brink map you’re gonna miss out big time!

I have never seen an expansion offer so little for the same price as the base game, name me some other expansions like this.

Eye of the North cost about $45 and offered much less than Heart of Thorns. Oh, in case you were not aware, GW2 cost $60 at launch while the expansion costs $50.

$60 /= $50

Straylight.7529:

glaphen.5230:

Straylight.7529:

glaphen.5230:

I have never seen an expansion offer so little for the same price as the base game, name me some other expansions like this.

Are you refering to expansions of MMO’s where you have to pay a monthly fee?

Yes

Warlords of Draenor: Costs 50$ plus another 15$ per month. Does if offer more content per dollar than HoT?

Heavensward: Costs 40$ plus another 12-15$ per month. Does it offer more content per dollar than HoT?

Hell, no!

As I said earlier these games have a fluff level cap increase to restart grinds and add new skills and still have five times the content this gives. It was GW2s choice not to go subscription, it wasn’t made for it, it would have died like Wildstar had it been subscription.

Ayrilana.1396:

You seem to be under the false assumption that all games that cost $60 contain the same amount of content. They don’t and the same goes for the expansions. The amount of content from all of them vary. I paid like $50 for Super Mario Bros 3 and $50 for Mario 64. One contained 90 levels while the other contained 15. Based on your reasoning, the one that I paid that contained the 15 levels was a rip off.

The flaw in your logic is that you rely solely on quantity without considering any of the other factors. I can probably make two identical pizzas but cut one to have 6 slices and the other to have 12 slices. You’d think the one with 12 slices was the better deal.

I dont understand your example here. HoT is not GW3. Its not a new game, just as Mario 3 and Mario 64 were not the same game. A more realistic example would be if you paid $50 for Mario 64, then 3 years later paid $50 again for 3 new levels, a playable Luigi and a new moveset.

The same with the pizza analogy. They are not equal. The core game would be an 18" pizza, while the expansion would be a 12", both with the same price. Only the 12" is cut into larger pieces, and therefore “looks” like more per piece.

Ayrilana.1396:

glaphen.5230:

Straylight.7529:

glaphen.5230:

29 entire pies of pizza>4, alright 8>1, 5 per class>1. Tell me the stories of the single player games with 1,000s of hours of content besides dwarf fortress. I don’t know how you think those 4 maps are as big as 29 somehow.

They don’t need to be as big as 29 maps. HoT is an expansion and not GW3 afterall. The cost for the expansion is 50$ which is pretty much standard for expansions.

If you think 50$ is too much than that’s your decision but judging from the beta weekends and what we’ve seen so far from the Verdant Brink map you’re gonna miss out big time!

I have never seen an expansion offer so little for the same price as the base game, name me some other expansions like this.

Eye of the North cost about $45 and offered much less than Heart of Thorns. Oh, in case you were not aware, GW2 cost $60 at launch while the expansion costs $50.

$60 /= $50

The expansion introduces:

41 new armor sets, including rare, stand-alone pieces
100 new profession-specific skills (10 per profession, none of which are elite)
50 new PvE only skills including 3 elite skills
10 new heroes
18 Dungeons
124 new quests
The Hall of Monuments, a place which allows you to obtain unique titles, companions, weapons, armor, and miniatures in Guild Wars 2 based on your achievements in the original Guild Wars. The Hall of Monuments does not support the transfer of characters or gold.

Actions have more consequences. For example, if you lose NPCs that help you, you can choose to continue without them (and their help) instead of being forced to try again (although you may start over with a clean slate by going back to town). Similarly, if you rescue NPCs, they may join you and help you.

More than the previous campaigns, Eye of the North is full of easter eggs and “hidden” quests, which are not immediately accessible.
4 new regions

Charr Homelands

The green homeland of the Charr, north of Ascalon and east to the Far Shiverpeaks.

Depths of Tyria

An immense interconnected underground complex of natural caves and excavated areas underneath Tyria.

Far Shiverpeaks

A desolate mountain range to the north of the Shiverpeak Mountains we know. It is home to the Norn and the Ebon Vanguard.

Tarnished Coast

An area of high magical energy, and home to the Asura.

From the wiki. Do I really need to list the amount this adds in comparison?

glaphen.5230:

Straylight.7529:

glaphen.5230:

Straylight.7529:

glaphen.5230:

I have never seen an expansion offer so little for the same price as the base game, name me some other expansions like this.

Are you refering to expansions of MMO’s where you have to pay a monthly fee?

Yes

Warlords of Draenor: Costs 50$ plus another 15$ per month. Does if offer more content per dollar than HoT?

Heavensward: Costs 40$ plus another 12-15$ per month. Does it offer more content per dollar than HoT?

Hell, no!

As I said earlier these games have a fluff level cap increase to restart grinds and add new skills and still have five times the content this gives. It was GW2s choice not to go subscription, it wasn’t made for it, it would have died like Wildstar had it been subscription.

Nope, they don’t. That is simply not true.

-Did the 7 maps we got in Warlords of Dreanor (6 at release) offer five times more content than the 4 HoT maps?

-Did the ashran pvp-zone offer five times more content than stronghold + new WvW map?

-Did the garrisons offer five time more content than guild halls?

-Did they add five times more skills to WoW-classes than the combined number of skills we get across all specializations?

and you have to pay a subscription fee on top of that if you want continuous access!

MrRuin.9740:

Ayrilana.1396:

You seem to be under the false assumption that all games that cost $60 contain the same amount of content. They don’t and the same goes for the expansions. The amount of content from all of them vary. I paid like $50 for Super Mario Bros 3 and $50 for Mario 64. One contained 90 levels while the other contained 15. Based on your reasoning, the one that I paid that contained the 15 levels was a rip off.

The flaw in your logic is that you rely solely on quantity without considering any of the other factors. I can probably make two identical pizzas but cut one to have 6 slices and the other to have 12 slices. You’d think the one with 12 slices was the better deal.

I dont understand your example here. HoT is not GW3. Its not a new game, just as Mario 3 and Mario 64 were not the same game. A more realistic example would be if you paid $50 for Mario 64, then 3 years later paid $50 again for 3 new levels, a playable Luigi and a new moveset.

The same with the pizza analogy. They are not equal. The core game would be an 18" pizza, while the expansion would be a 12", both with the same price. Only the 12" is cut into larger pieces, and therefore “looks” like more per piece.

You’re missing the point. The point was to show him that relying solely on quantity is misleading. The examples were to show that there’s a difference between the content that makes quantity misleading. Just look at his post to this where he lists off all that EotN contained and is STILL only focusing on the quantity.

glaphen.5230:

Ayrilana.1396:

glaphen.5230:

Straylight.7529:

glaphen.5230:

29 entire pies of pizza>4, alright 8>1, 5 per class>1. Tell me the stories of the single player games with 1,000s of hours of content besides dwarf fortress. I don’t know how you think those 4 maps are as big as 29 somehow.

They don’t need to be as big as 29 maps. HoT is an expansion and not GW3 afterall. The cost for the expansion is 50$ which is pretty much standard for expansions.

If you think 50$ is too much than that’s your decision but judging from the beta weekends and what we’ve seen so far from the Verdant Brink map you’re gonna miss out big time!

I have never seen an expansion offer so little for the same price as the base game, name me some other expansions like this.

Eye of the North cost about $45 and offered much less than Heart of Thorns. Oh, in case you were not aware, GW2 cost $60 at launch while the expansion costs $50.

$60 /= $50

The expansion introduces:

41 new armor sets, including rare, stand-alone pieces
100 new profession-specific skills (10 per profession, none of which are elite)
50 new PvE only skills including 3 elite skills
10 new heroes
18 Dungeons
124 new quests
The Hall of Monuments, a place which allows you to obtain unique titles, companions, weapons, armor, and miniatures in Guild Wars 2 based on your achievements in the original Guild Wars. The Hall of Monuments does not support the transfer of characters or gold.

Actions have more consequences. For example, if you lose NPCs that help you, you can choose to continue without them (and their help) instead of being forced to try again (although you may start over with a clean slate by going back to town). Similarly, if you rescue NPCs, they may join you and help you.

More than the previous campaigns, Eye of the North is full of easter eggs and “hidden” quests, which are not immediately accessible.
4 new regions

Charr Homelands

The green homeland of the Charr, north of Ascalon and east to the Far Shiverpeaks.

Depths of Tyria

An immense interconnected underground complex of natural caves and excavated areas underneath Tyria.

Far Shiverpeaks

A desolate mountain range to the north of the Shiverpeak Mountains we know. It is home to the Norn and the Ebon Vanguard.

Tarnished Coast

An area of high magical energy, and home to the Asura.

From the wiki. Do I really need to list the amount this adds in comparison?

Congrats. You can copy and paste from the wiki.

Compare what it offered to Prophecies.

Straylight.7529:

glaphen.5230:

Straylight.7529:

glaphen.5230:

Straylight.7529:

glaphen.5230:

I have never seen an expansion offer so little for the same price as the base game, name me some other expansions like this.

Are you refering to expansions of MMO’s where you have to pay a monthly fee?

Yes

Warlords of Draenor: Costs 50$ plus another 15$ per month. Does if offer more content per dollar than HoT?

Heavensward: Costs 40$ plus another 12-15$ per month. Does it offer more content per dollar than HoT?

Hell, no!

As I said earlier these games have a fluff level cap increase to restart grinds and add new skills and still have five times the content this gives. It was GW2s choice not to go subscription, it wasn’t made for it, it would have died like Wildstar had it been subscription.

Nope, they don’t. That is simply not true.

-Did the 7 maps we got in Warlords of Dreanor (6 at release) offer five times more content than the 4 HoT maps?

-Did the ashran pvp-zone offer five times more content than stronghold + new WvW map?

-Did the garrisons offer five time more content than guild halls?

- Did they add five times more skills than the combined number of skills we get across all specializations?

and you have to pay a subscription fee on top of that if you want continual access!

It initially included eight 5-man dungeons and two raids.⁵ There was also a rebalancing of raid difficulty by the addition of a new difficulty called Mythic, which became the hardest version of the raid system that requires exactly 20 players, while the easiest is 25 player raid finder (or “Looking For Raid”) and it expanded flexible raiding to include normal and heroic difficulty, allowing groups to range from 10 to 30 players and the enemies scale dynamically depending on the raid size.⁶⁷ Players are able to build and upgrade their own garrison, a personal area in which they can recruit non-player characters (NPC) to carry out missions to earn the player or NPC experience and items. The garrison is assembled from the individual buildings like stables or armories, increasing their size and modifying their appearance.⁸

The development team made a number of changes to the player versus player (PvP) aspects of the game. They altered the way that PvP items behave when players fight, reducing crowd control abilities, and added a new PvP-focused island area called Ashran containing various objectives and battles for players to participate in.⁹

From the wiki it sounds like more to me 8 dungeons and 2 raids with multiple difficulty levels. Garrisons, I haven’t even bothered looking at guild halls but I’m pretty sure it’s free in the base game, if not only the leader would need to buy it. Haven’t played WoW in since BC so I would not know how much this adds but the new mode in this is just Alterac Valley lite-mini as I said earlier, they are also do balancing work it says and GW2 never does that any good whenever they actually try. Skills added it is pretty much exactly 150 pay only skills added which includes every single skill of the new class and I haven’t played WoW since BC so I have no idea what is new. No idea but WoW maps are bigger than GW2 maps from what I remember.

Straylight.7529:

glaphen.5230:

Straylight.7529:

glaphen.5230:

I have never seen an expansion offer so little for the same price as the base game, name me some other expansions like this.

Are you refering to expansions of MMO’s where you have to pay a monthly fee?

Yes

Warlords of Draenor: Costs 50$ plus another 15$ per month. Does if offer more content per dollar than HoT?

Heavensward: Costs 40$ plus another 12-15$ per month. Does it offer more content per dollar than HoT?

Hell, no!

sorry bro, heavensward blows hot out of the water, soundly.
Your whole point of monthly fee is irrelevent, because this is gem shop game, but even if it wasnt, the question is, what can you do in the same time period.

I can buy heavensward and a month sub for 45 dollars (in fact at launch i was able to get heavensward for 30 bucks)
in that time i have 3 new proffessions
10 new levels per class with new abilities
expanded crafting and crafting skills(which is actually content in ffxiv)
7 new areas
new raids
new boss battles
8 new dungeons
refinement of their guild hall like system with more options and building of airships
new race

gw2 in that month, for 50 dollars
i get one part of a raid
4 new maps
specializations
1 new proffession.
2 guild halls, with linear growth limited customization

So yeah, lot more to do in that same time for less money. Heavensward generally extremely postively reviewed btw.

gw2 isnt is saving you any money if you only play hot content for a few weeks.

Ayrilana.1396:

Eye of the North cost about $45 and offered much less than Heart of Thorns.

Bzzzzz! Wrong!. It was $39,99, which is the usual price for expansions (as opposed to $50,00, which is the usual price for rip-offs).

Besides, “much less than Heart of Thorns”? It had:

• 4 new regions. HoT has 4 new maps.

• 150 new skills. HoT has, what? Half of that?

• 18 dungeons. Meanwhile, HoT will be released with the promise of one third of a single raid sometime after release.

• Dozens of new weapon models. HoT will have… 5 new weapon sets. Only 5.

And so on, and so on.

Really, pet, you should learn more about what you’re trying to talk about. The kitten images were better.

Ayrilana.1396:

glaphen.5230:

Ayrilana.1396:

glaphen.5230:

Straylight.7529:

glaphen.5230:

29 entire pies of pizza>4, alright 8>1, 5 per class>1. Tell me the stories of the single player games with 1,000s of hours of content besides dwarf fortress. I don’t know how you think those 4 maps are as big as 29 somehow.

They don’t need to be as big as 29 maps. HoT is an expansion and not GW3 afterall. The cost for the expansion is 50$ which is pretty much standard for expansions.

If you think 50$ is too much than that’s your decision but judging from the beta weekends and what we’ve seen so far from the Verdant Brink map you’re gonna miss out big time!

I have never seen an expansion offer so little for the same price as the base game, name me some other expansions like this.

Eye of the North cost about $45 and offered much less than Heart of Thorns. Oh, in case you were not aware, GW2 cost $60 at launch while the expansion costs $50.

$60 /= $50

The expansion introduces:

41 new armor sets, including rare, stand-alone pieces
100 new profession-specific skills (10 per profession, none of which are elite)
50 new PvE only skills including 3 elite skills
10 new heroes
18 Dungeons
124 new quests
The Hall of Monuments, a place which allows you to obtain unique titles, companions, weapons, armor, and miniatures in Guild Wars 2 based on your achievements in the original Guild Wars. The Hall of Monuments does not support the transfer of characters or gold.

Actions have more consequences. For example, if you lose NPCs that help you, you can choose to continue without them (and their help) instead of being forced to try again (although you may start over with a clean slate by going back to town). Similarly, if you rescue NPCs, they may join you and help you.

More than the previous campaigns, Eye of the North is full of easter eggs and “hidden” quests, which are not immediately accessible.
4 new regions

Charr Homelands

The green homeland of the Charr, north of Ascalon and east to the Far Shiverpeaks.

Depths of Tyria

An immense interconnected underground complex of natural caves and excavated areas underneath Tyria.

Far Shiverpeaks

A desolate mountain range to the north of the Shiverpeak Mountains we know. It is home to the Norn and the Ebon Vanguard.

Tarnished Coast

An area of high magical energy, and home to the Asura.

From the wiki. Do I really need to list the amount this adds in comparison?

Congrats. You can copy and paste from the wiki.

Compare what it offered to Prophecies.

4 new regions vs 6 base, 124 new quests vs 205 base, going off just monk skills 10 new skills vs 40 base, http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Armor_art, 18 new dungeons vs 0 base, 10 heroes vs 0 base. Totally similar to the 15% of the stuff it actually adds in this but it’s more like 50%+ for all of them.

Test.8734:

Ayrilana.1396:

Eye of the North cost about $45 and offered much less than Heart of Thorns.

Bzzzzz! Wrong!. It was $39,99, which is the usual price for expansions (as opposed to $50,00, which is the usual price for rip-offs).

Besides, “much less than Heart of Thorns”? It had:

• 4 new regions. HoT has 4 new maps.

• 150 new skills. HoT has, what? Half of that?

• 18 dungeons. Meanwhile, HoT will be released with the promise of one third of a single raid sometime after release.

• Dozens of new weapon models. HoT will have… 5 new weapon sets. Only 5.

And so on, and so on.

Really, pet, you should learn more about what you’re trying to talk about. The kitten images were better.

Yeah I was off by $5 when trying to remember.

Again different games. The maps are different. Compare the walk-able area of the maps to any of GW2 maps. The combat system is different. The 18 dungeons is misleading as quite a lot of the dungeon maps were recycled.

I think the expansion is vastly overpriced, i hope Anet will deliver up to expectations or this game will be over soon.

glaphen.5230:

4 new regions vs 6 base, 124 new quests vs 205 base, going off just monk skills 10 new skills vs 40 base, http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Armor_art, 18 new dungeons vs 0 base, 10 heroes vs 0 base. Totally similar to the 15% of the stuff it actually adds in this but it’s more like 50%+ for all of them.

Let’s see. EotN released for $40 and Prophecies released for $50. So that makes EotN 80% (40/50) of the cost of Prophecies. Since you like to to comparisons using only quantities, that means EotN must contains at least 80% of the content of Prophecies.

Maps
Prophecies – 54
EotN – 15

Result: 28% (15/54) – FAIL

Quests
Prophecies – 205
EotN – 124

Result: 60% (124/205) – FAIL

Professions
Prophecies – 6
EotN – 2

Result: 33% (2/6) – FAIL

Armor Sets
Prophecies – 13
EotN – 5

Result: 39% (5/13) – FAIL

Skills
Prophecies – 204
EotN – 150

Result: 74% (150/204) – FAIL

Ayrilana.1396:

glaphen.5230:

4 new regions vs 6 base, 124 new quests vs 205 base, going off just monk skills 10 new skills vs 40 base, http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Armor_art, 18 new dungeons vs 0 base, 10 heroes vs 0 base. Totally similar to the 15% of the stuff it actually adds in this but it’s more like 50%+ for all of them.

Let’s see. EotN released for $40 and Prophecies released for $50. So that makes EotN 80% (40/50) of the cost of Prophecies. Since you like to to comparisons using only quantities, that means EotN must contains at least 80% of the content of Prophecies.

Maps
Prophecies – 54
EotN – 15

Result: 28% (15/54) – FAIL

Quests
Prophecies – 205
EotN – 124

Result: 60% (124/205) – FAIL

Professions
Prophecies – 6
EotN – 2

Result: 33% (2/6) – FAIL

Armor Sets
Prophecies – 13
EotN – 5

Result: 39% (5/13) – FAIL

Skills
Prophecies – 204
EotN – 150

Result: 74% (150/204) – FAIL

Zones
Base-29
HoT-4
14%

Classes
Base-8
HoT-1
12.5%

Cosmetics
Base-Who the kitten knows 3000+ at least
HoT-60+
2%

Skills
Base-529
HoT-150 most of all only possible to equip with elite equipped and includes all Revenant skills
Not including multi part skills in either
28%

Dungeons
Base-25 dungeon paths, 15 fractals, 9 epic world bosses
HoT-3? 10 man raids
6%

So that’s a great comparison with the expansion you claim added the least content.

Ayrilana.1396:

glaphen.5230:

4 new regions vs 6 base, 124 new quests vs 205 base, going off just monk skills 10 new skills vs 40 base, http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Armor_art, 18 new dungeons vs 0 base, 10 heroes vs 0 base. Totally similar to the 15% of the stuff it actually adds in this but it’s more like 50%+ for all of them.

Let’s see. EotN released for $40 and Prophecies released for $50. So that makes EotN 80% (40/50) of the cost of Prophecies. Since you like to to comparisons using only quantities, that means EotN must contains at least 80% of the content of Prophecies.

Maps
Prophecies – 54
EotN – 15

Result: 28% (15/54) – FAIL

Quests
Prophecies – 205
EotN – 124

Result: 60% (124/205) – FAIL

Professions
Prophecies – 6
EotN – 2

Result: 33% (2/6) – FAIL

Armor Sets
Prophecies – 13
EotN – 5

Result: 39% (5/13) – FAIL

Skills
Prophecies – 204
EotN – 150

Result: 74% (150/204) – FAIL

Lets laught, and compare what bring HoT for nearly a brand new AAA game price.
HoT will nearly never go over 10%.. xD

Anyway, GW1 “stand alone / expansion” will ALWAYS deliver WAY more content than what the GW2 Anet could ever deliver with HoT. Especialy when you see that the precursor craft promised there is like 2years ago is now considered as a “expansion feature”

Thoses guys are just a bad joke since GW2. That’s really a shame.

glaphen.5230:

Ayrilana.1396:

glaphen.5230:

4 new regions vs 6 base, 124 new quests vs 205 base, going off just monk skills 10 new skills vs 40 base, http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Armor_art, 18 new dungeons vs 0 base, 10 heroes vs 0 base. Totally similar to the 15% of the stuff it actually adds in this but it’s more like 50%+ for all of them.

Let’s see. EotN released for $40 and Prophecies released for $50. So that makes EotN 80% (40/50) of the cost of Prophecies. Since you like to to comparisons using only quantities, that means EotN must contains at least 80% of the content of Prophecies.

Maps
Prophecies – 54
EotN – 15

Result: 28% (15/54) – FAIL

Quests
Prophecies – 205
EotN – 124

Result: 60% (124/205) – FAIL

Professions
Prophecies – 6
EotN – 2

Result: 33% (2/6) – FAIL

Armor Sets
Prophecies – 13
EotN – 5

Result: 39% (5/13) – FAIL

Skills
Prophecies – 204
EotN – 150

Result: 74% (150/204) – FAIL

Zones
Base-29
HoT-4
14%

Classes
Base-8
HoT-1
12.5%

Cosmetics
Base-Who the kitten knows 3000+ at least
HoT-60+
2%

Skills
Base-529
HoT-150 most of all only possible to equip with elite equipped and includes all Revenant skills
Not including multi part skills in either
28%

Dungeons
Base-25 dungeon paths, 15 fractals, 9 epic world bosses
HoT-3? 10 man raids
6%

So that’s a great comparison with the expansion you claim added the least content.

See. Expansions don’t ever contain as much content as their core game. Of course this is going solely on quantity which is misleading. All that someone needs to do is determine if the content that they see within the expansion is worth the $50 to them. What other games have or don’t have doesn’t matter. All that matters is what that particular expansion is worth to them.

So while you’re playing the core game, or some other game, I’ll be enjoying all of the content that HoT has to offer including all future living story content which you will not have access to. But don’t worry, you can wait until the next expansion and purchase both for $50 which will come down to $25 each.

Ayrilana.1396:

glaphen.5230:

Ayrilana.1396:

glaphen.5230:

4 new regions vs 6 base, 124 new quests vs 205 base, going off just monk skills 10 new skills vs 40 base, http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Armor_art, 18 new dungeons vs 0 base, 10 heroes vs 0 base. Totally similar to the 15% of the stuff it actually adds in this but it’s more like 50%+ for all of them.

Let’s see. EotN released for $40 and Prophecies released for $50. So that makes EotN 80% (40/50) of the cost of Prophecies. Since you like to to comparisons using only quantities, that means EotN must contains at least 80% of the content of Prophecies.

Maps
Prophecies – 54
EotN – 15

Result: 28% (15/54) – FAIL

Quests
Prophecies – 205
EotN – 124

Result: 60% (124/205) – FAIL

Professions
Prophecies – 6
EotN – 2

Result: 33% (2/6) – FAIL

Armor Sets
Prophecies – 13
EotN – 5

Result: 39% (5/13) – FAIL

Skills
Prophecies – 204
EotN – 150

Result: 74% (150/204) – FAIL

Zones
Base-29
HoT-4
14%

Classes
Base-8
HoT-1
12.5%

Cosmetics
Base-Who the kitten knows 3000+ at least
HoT-60+
2%

Skills
Base-529
HoT-150 most of all only possible to equip with elite equipped and includes all Revenant skills
Not including multi part skills in either
28%

Dungeons
Base-25 dungeon paths, 15 fractals, 9 epic world bosses
HoT-3? 10 man raids
6%

So that’s a great comparison with the expansion you claim added the least content.

See. Expansions don’t ever contain as much content as their core game. All that someone needs to do is determine if the content that they see within the expansion is worth the $50 to them. What other games have or don’t have doesn’t matter. All that matters is what that particular expansion is worth to them.

So while you’re playing the core game, or some other game, I’ll be enjoying all of the content that HoT has to offer including all future living story content which you will not have access to. But don’t worry, you can wait until the next expansion and purchase both for $50 which will come down to $25 each.

You are right but anyone with brains looks for something that adds at the very least 25% to the total content of the base game, this doesn’t reach even 5%. You can enjoy your fan fiction writing as I said earlier, use that to justify your purchase, but there are tons of websites you can find 100s of hours of reading for free if you want that.

E Tan.7385:

Lets laught, and compare what bring HoT for nearly a brand new AAA game price.
HoT will nearly never go over 10%.. xD

That’s if you go solely on quantities which is misleading.

E Tan.7385:

Anyway, GW1 “stand alone / expansion” will ALWAYS deliver WAY more content than what the GW2 Anet could ever deliver with HoT. Especialy when you see that the precursor craft promised there is like 2years ago is now considered as a “expansion feature”

Nightfall it probably does. Factions is debateble. It delivers more than EotN.

There is only one criteria for determining the value of an entertainment product.

Is it worth it to you?

That can be expressed in a number of ways:
Is it fun for you.
Do you like it.
Etc.

There is no absolute:
must be at least as large as a different expansion.
Must be at least 25% as large as the base game.
Etc.

I will not be buying the expansion. What has been announced is not worth paying for (to me). I respect that others think otherwise and will buy HoT. I hope they enjoy their purchase.

For those who consider $50 to be too expensive for what is included in HoT….wait. It is all but inevitable that there will be sales and, eventually, a price reduction. Buy it then at a price more in line with your expectations.

So, i am reading that GW2 now is completely F2P, not even buying the core game is charged now, right? Just the Expansion.

So, what does that means like overall? Why did they do this? What consequences does this bring to us?

And to older players specifically? Does that means that new players can play free now while we the ones that bought the game simply lost our bucks? Or is there gonna be some kind of reward for having bought the game previously.

Here you go: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-Price-Feedback-Base-game-included-merged/page/139#post5571310

https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/95982157-Account-types-Free-Core-HoT

Happy reading.

New players have a lot of restrictions we didn’t have. They have less character slots. They can’t buy whatever they want on the trading post. They can’t send money or items in the mail.

The game, the whole game, was on sale for $10 three times anyway. I played this game for 3 years and got 3 years worth of entertainment out of it. I experienced things new players never got to see. By logging in during the Living Story Season 2 I got that for free.

You’re not out money by getting in 3 years early. You’re far far ahead of new people just starting out.

I honestly don’t get these posts.

No. There is no reward for buying the game up to 3 years ago and playing all that time without a subscription and getting all those free updates.

free player get no daily chest, which I believe to be the best restriction.

The F2P is a good addition. The restrictions are perfectly-pitched, giving new players enough game to play but also enough incentive to upgrade. Less inventory space, two character slots, no daily chest, can’t buy gems with gold, can’t access guild bank, slightly-annoying nag button at the top-left of the screen, level-limited access to Lion’s Arch plus some other stuff. They have also been careful to make F2P accounts unattractive to botters. You can’t just create an account and spam chat or transfer assets out of that account.

So whilst there will be plenty of folk in game who never upgrade, it is also providing some new players to the paid game. I get that there might be some resentment from non-F2P folks but it will being new life to the game imo.

I started as F2P not long after it became available and upgraded to paid a couple of weeks ago.

The game doesnt need new players to bring it to life… its already alive and kicking, just need to keep the content comming..

not hating here, just stating it already does well is all.

Judging by the human starter instance, it’s bringing in a lot of new chars. Whereas I used to rarely see anyone, even after they megaservered it, now there are always multiple others at the main boss no matter what time of day it is, and other people running around in the area before it.

Hi! I have two full accounts, including HoT, and one f2p account.

It is quite possible to play the core game for free. But a paid account does have a great deal of advantages. F2P has only 2 characters and those two only have three bag slots each. Try running Silverwastes with under 40 storage slots, it is ‘interesting’.

Only being able to whisper to people on the same map (and no mapchat), unless they are are on your friend list and you are on theirs. Never being able to send anything to anyone over the mail or access Guild Bank….

Personally, I am enjoying the challenge of the restrictions for now, but it will get really frustrating at the point one wants Ascended stuff. Laurels only come from Achievement Point Chests, which makes amulets and trinkets pretty much impossible. Also, among the things one cannot sell or buy at the TP are runes, sigils and recipies.

The point is, don’t envy the F2P people. It really is just a way to test if one really likes this game. If one does, buying the expansion is a good deal.

CorrynnStarr.7942:

The game doesnt need new players to bring it to life… its already alive and kicking, just need to keep the content comming..

not hating here, just stating it already does well is all.

The problem is, doing “well” isn’t necessarily enough for a business that wants to expand. There’s always competition. Always new games coming out. And without shaking things up, by resting on your laurels (no pun intended), you end up slipping back a little at a time.

As an example (and it means very little), Anet used to be in the top 20 Raptr games. Now I’m not saying that Raptr is the be all end all. It’s just an indication of popularity. It’s slipped out of the top 20, and this next time I expect it to go back in.

It’s not just about doing well. It’s competing against games that are in the same marketplace. Going free to play was probably well done.

Vayne.8563:

You’re not out money by getting in 3 years early. You’re far far ahead of new people just starting out.

I honestly don’t get these posts.

This. Honestly, the earlier you got into this game the better. By a long shot. Veterans have an overwhelming number of advantages over new players. We got to take advantage of affordable gold→ gem conversion, had easier access to loads of skins and titles (some of which are completely unattainable now), two seasons of Living Story. Beyond all that we had a couple years of decent entertainment. We got our money’s worth.

The F2P accounts are very worth it. compared to other MMO’s trial, or F2P accounts, ANET has done a very good job. Honestly, I see the F2P accounts as trial accounts without time limit or level limit. I have seen a lot fo new people coming into the game.

Us “older” players (thanks) loose nothing. GW2 going f2p doesnt affect anyone that bought the game on release, we havent lost anything. There are players with 6000+ hours kitten . Are you saying they didnt get their moneys worth because GW2 went f2p? Lol.

The only ones that got put in a bad spot are the ones that bought a boxed copy of GW2 after HoT was up for preorder and before GW2 went f2p. They should have just bought HoT instead. But even so, hopefully they got full GW2 cheap. Those that bought GW2 just before HoT was in a bad spot too, but we didnt even know about f2p then so that doesnt matter to this specific discussion.

Either way, GW2 f2p is f2p done right. After this beta weekend, I dont question that HoT will pretty much be p2w because normal classes cant compete with elite specs, but still the limitations is just right. No kittenty things like only level 20 (like WoW) or pretty much be 24/7 online to be able to open a couple of lootbags (like Archeage). I cant find anything that Anet went full kitten on. Not that they dont have the capability to go full kitten – they just choose not to in this instance.

So according to gw2 efficiency my account is worth 35,000+ gold, not including the cost to craft all ascended armours/weapons and items I have in my personal guild bank(s).

Would I want to swap that for a refund of the core game… no.

Was F2P for almost a month. Upgraded to a full account last week. I was always slow to jump into MMO’s because I was worried about the cost/possibility for consumer’s remorse. But, I got to max out a toon, play the PVE and check out things like WVW and PVP all for free. I’m hooked. And to be honest, I probably never would have given GW2 a chance had it not been for F2P.

So, I am sorry If you don’t think you’ve gotten your money’s worth over the last three years but, I definitely plan on getting mine.

I’ve seen quite a few posts lately by new players. Since they’re posting here, they have accounts. I’d not be surprised if they bought after having tried the free option. I’d also not be surprised if the percentage of new players who post here is a fraction of all new paid players. I’d not be surprised if F2P is panning out for ANet. If you’re a fan of this game, ANet doing well serves you by providing money for further development.

As to “veterans” getting shafted… why is this even a thought? Life is full of situations where early adopters pay premium prices while late comers get deals. Many, maybe most, games devalue over time. The MMO genre contains many games which dropped to minimal cost over time or went free to play.

“But, but vets paid for the game and are now getting nothing!” Vets got what they paid for, a license to play the game they bought for as long as the servers run and they heed the UA/ToS. They (presumably) have played the game for as many hours as they chose to. The only thing that’s changing is that there is now a larger pool of players around so that the small percentage who spend on the store is larger, and the prospect pool for ANet’s new game is larger.