Guild Wars 2

ProtoGunner.4953:

It’s still too little content. You can’t deny that. Anyone who states otherwise is just whiteknighting this fact. However, I enjoyed the content I played and I well played a couple of 100 hours out of it. But that’s it, there’s not much else to do. No dungeons, only one raid (which is great imo). Also they sold fractals as the new 5man content without adding one single fractals in almost one year after expansion… Even small companies who do FTP games add more dungeons. Of course they are simple but Anet tends to produce either an over fancied complex thing or nothing. Why not just give people what they want? They don’t have to re-invent the wheel. Just give us meaty dungeons with a lot of hard hitting mobs and a few bosses (and some unique rewards) and I am happy. I still love the old dungeons and do them quite often.

Ah yes, the “If you don’t agree with me then you’re a white knight” statement. Well anyone who doesn’t agree with me is just a quaggan. See? I can do the same too. Unfortunately these personal attacks do nothing for the discussion. It’s like my little nephew who told another kid they were a “poo poo head” because they thought that they should be first in line or something trivial like that. It’s just a pointless insult but in that case they were just a little kid.

Adding a few dungeons brings a lot of content? I disagree. People have a checklist of what other MMO’s have done. If an expansion doesn’t include those items then it’s a fail.

Ayrilana.1396:

ProtoGunner.4953:

It’s still too little content. You can’t deny that. Anyone who states otherwise is just whiteknighting this fact. However, I enjoyed the content I played and I well played a couple of 100 hours out of it. But that’s it, there’s not much else to do. No dungeons, only one raid (which is great imo). Also they sold fractals as the new 5man content without adding one single fractals in almost one year after expansion… Even small companies who do FTP games add more dungeons. Of course they are simple but Anet tends to produce either an over fancied complex thing or nothing. Why not just give people what they want? They don’t have to re-invent the wheel. Just give us meaty dungeons with a lot of hard hitting mobs and a few bosses (and some unique rewards) and I am happy. I still love the old dungeons and do them quite often.

Ah yes, the “If you don’t agree with me then you’re a white knight” statement. Well anyone who doesn’t agree with me is just a quaggan. See? I can do the same too. Unfortunately these personal attacks do nothing for the discussion. It’s like my little nephew who told another kid they were a “poo poo head” because they though that they should be first in line or something trivial like that. It’s just a pointless insult but in that case they were just a little kid.

Adding a few dungeons brings a lot of content? I disagree. People have a checklist of what other MMO’s have done. If an expansion doesn’t include those items then it’s a fail.

Yes this is where I stop arguing too. I think saying that if you don’t agree with me you’re whiteknighting is a terrible position to take. I don’t agree with the statement.

That is to say in hours I’ve played this expansion I’ve exceeded hours I’ve spent playing other expansions. That’s after getting my mastery points to max and not raiding.

Because I am interested in collections and achievements. Plenty of content for a guy like me.

The fact that there’s not enough content for one person’s play style doesn’t mean there’s not enough content for everyone, nor does it mean you’re white-knighting if you disagree.

ProtoGunner.4953:

It’s still too little content. You can’t deny that. Anyone who states otherwise is just whiteknighting this fact. However, I enjoyed the content I played and I well played a couple of 100 hours out of it. But that’s it, there’s not much else to do. No dungeons, only one raid (which is great imo). Also they sold fractals as the new 5man content without adding one single fractals in almost one year after expansion… Even small companies who do FTP games add more dungeons. Of course they are simple but Anet tends to produce either an over fancied complex thing or nothing. Why not just give people what they want? They don’t have to re-invent the wheel. Just give us meaty dungeons with a lot of hard hitting mobs and a few bosses (and some unique rewards) and I am happy. I still love the old dungeons and do them quite often.

a couple hundred hours out of a box price is very good value for a single player game (30-100 avg) never mind a mmorpg. Many many players get a lot more value out of HOT over and above that. Compare to Legion, a week and you were back to farming instances for ilevel with wrecked gathering/crafting/social aspects – a very non holistic design strategy.

Many modern younger players do not understand the concept of layering content and systems in MMORPG and are not capable of taking a holistic view., and there lies the problem. I also love the old dungeons and wvw and spvp, and I still play them because the rewards feed into new goals i have from HOT (achieves/legendaries mats/learning new build setups/new award systems/Masteries) This is what I mean by a holistic view.

Ayrilana.1396:

Galtrix.7369:

Ayrilana.1396:

Kuja.2503:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

The expansion, just like the Core game, is much more than just the HoT storyline. One can not disregard content included in a purchase price, just because one dislikes it. It is still content, as games such as MMOs must cater to a wide variety of content and potential players.

And, don’t forget, there is more ‘storyline’ dropping next week, and every 2 to 3 months after. All part of the purchase price of HoT.

Even if I did absolutely everything HoT has to offer I would still not get more than a month out of it. We are still talking about the price – the core game was released with 8 classes, dozens of maps and thousands of hours of playtime. The expansion was released at the same price, yet only has one class, a few maps and a negliable fraction of the playtime. Plus, if Living World 3 is anything like the first season, then episodes will be over in a matter of hours. I still see no reason to buy HoT when it is priced so disproportionately.

Really? I sure got more than a month out of it.

The expansion was comparatively priced to other expansions. Expansions also never contain the same amount of content as its core game. If you believe otherwise then looks like you will never buy an expansion and those Fallout 4 DLC’s that so many people are looking forward to must be a bad deal.

Content is only worth to someone for what they’re willing to pay for it.

I still don’t understand how people are willing to pay 50 dollars for such a lack of content. HoT was comparatively priced to WoW’s expansion, which is the only MMORPG daring enough to price their expansion at 50 dollars. Unless of course you can name another MMORPG that priced their expansion at 50 dollars. WoW: Legion also has…. I would say about 10 times the amount of content that HoT does.

Here is what WoW: Legion contains – http://us.battle.net/wow/en/legion/#features

By this point, you’ll probably argue that Anet doesn’t have the number of employees that Blizzard does, and therefore doesn’t have to meet the content that WoW: Legion has set.

And I will say: Well, they compared the price of their expansion to that of WoW’s, so did Anet just forget to compare the amount of content too?

Think about what you’re saying here. “Expansions also never contain the same amount of content as its core game”. True, but that DOES NOT warrant a 50 dollar price tag. You pay 60 dollars for a full game, and then 50 dollars for not even 1/10th of the content of the 60 dollar game? Logically, that’s a rip-off.

Your link doesn’t show much content.

And yet it contains way more content than GW2: HoT…

-A full CONTINENT. Tell me when something that large was ever implemented in GW2.

-New bosses and DUNGEONS.

-A new class

-Class halls

And we’ve already surpassed the content of HoT by a mile.

I mean, if you’re willing to pay for HoT and you think it’s worth it, then by all means, buy it. But don’t try to justify the price tag to other people when it’s so obviously not worth it. If HoT was comparatively priced with other expansions, the content should also be comparatively priced. Otherwise it’s a rip-off.

Galtrix.7369:

Ayrilana.1396:

Galtrix.7369:

Ayrilana.1396:

Kuja.2503:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

The expansion, just like the Core game, is much more than just the HoT storyline. One can not disregard content included in a purchase price, just because one dislikes it. It is still content, as games such as MMOs must cater to a wide variety of content and potential players.

And, don’t forget, there is more ‘storyline’ dropping next week, and every 2 to 3 months after. All part of the purchase price of HoT.

Even if I did absolutely everything HoT has to offer I would still not get more than a month out of it. We are still talking about the price – the core game was released with 8 classes, dozens of maps and thousands of hours of playtime. The expansion was released at the same price, yet only has one class, a few maps and a negliable fraction of the playtime. Plus, if Living World 3 is anything like the first season, then episodes will be over in a matter of hours. I still see no reason to buy HoT when it is priced so disproportionately.

Really? I sure got more than a month out of it.

The expansion was comparatively priced to other expansions. Expansions also never contain the same amount of content as its core game. If you believe otherwise then looks like you will never buy an expansion and those Fallout 4 DLC’s that so many people are looking forward to must be a bad deal.

Content is only worth to someone for what they’re willing to pay for it.

I still don’t understand how people are willing to pay 50 dollars for such a lack of content. HoT was comparatively priced to WoW’s expansion, which is the only MMORPG daring enough to price their expansion at 50 dollars. Unless of course you can name another MMORPG that priced their expansion at 50 dollars. WoW: Legion also has…. I would say about 10 times the amount of content that HoT does.

Here is what WoW: Legion contains – http://us.battle.net/wow/en/legion/#features

By this point, you’ll probably argue that Anet doesn’t have the number of employees that Blizzard does, and therefore doesn’t have to meet the content that WoW: Legion has set.

And I will say: Well, they compared the price of their expansion to that of WoW’s, so did Anet just forget to compare the amount of content too?

Think about what you’re saying here. “Expansions also never contain the same amount of content as its core game”. True, but that DOES NOT warrant a 50 dollar price tag. You pay 60 dollars for a full game, and then 50 dollars for not even 1/10th of the content of the 60 dollar game? Logically, that’s a rip-off.

Your link doesn’t show much content.

And yet it contains way more content than GW2: HoT…

-A full CONTINENT. Tell me when something that large was ever implemented in GW2.

-New bosses and DUNGEONS.

-A new class

-Class halls

And we’ve already surpassed the content of HoT by a mile.

I mean, if you’re willing to pay for HoT and you think it’s worth it, then by all means, buy it. But don’t try to justify the price tag to other people when it’s so obviously not worth it. If HoT was comparatively priced with other expansions, the content should also be comparatively priced. Otherwise it’s a rip-off.

Define continent. Maybe it’ll just be four maps…

HoT had a new class.

HoT had new bosses. No dungeons but GW2 dungeons are rather small and would have been e haunted at the same time as the other content.

You’re not surpassing HoT content based on what you provided.

I’m not justifying the price tag. I’ve stated numerous times that it’s up to the player to decide. The only time I come close to that is to refute those players who treat HoT not being worth it as a fact rather than their own opinion (yourself included).

lol right, I know quite a few people who still play wow, and the last 2 expansions are where the ‘term ’content drought’ originated from. WOW is well known for providing the least amount of content out of all the AAA mmorpg, and worse is the most expensive – a model of how a mmorpg should not be developed. WOW also destroys its own content backlog with every expansion – last expansion it was all the old zones, crafting, gathering and social interaction with the universally loathed garrison. WOW is the scourge of MMORPG and has championed many of the destructive behaviors and practices we see today.

The argument that WOW (£13+ a month cost, no content in a year) is more value than the £3 a month for GW2 or any other mmorpg is laughable.

Galtrix.7369:

I still don’t understand how people are willing to pay 50 dollars for such a lack of content.

While you can list stuff in one games’ XPac v. stuff in another, it’s not so easy to equate whether that list represents a straight comparison. Consider the Legion ad you linked. Hundreds of quests… Using the term hundreds in adspeak generally means low hundreds. Get into high hundreds and they’d be saying “close to a thousand.” Then, how extensive are those quests? Some WoW quests are quite involved. Most aren’t. Then count DE’s in HoT, DE’s being the GW2 equivalent of quests. There are over 50 in VB alone. That’s only counting night quests once rather than the multiple times they happen across the zone. Also, DE’s are repeatable whereas quests are only so on different characters.

Current WoW XPac’s don’t cost $50. They cost $50 + ($15 * [number of months -1] playing them). Objectively, I paid much less to play through HoT than I did to play through Wrath, and that was a $40 box price.

Finally, value is subjective. If one values what WoW offers more than what GW2 does, then WoW will look like the better deal. The opposite holds true for GW2/HoT.

Galtrix.7369:

HoT was comparatively priced to WoW’s expansion, which is the only MMORPG daring enough to price their expansion at 50 dollars. Unless of course you can name another MMORPG that priced their expansion at 50 dollars. WoW: Legion also has…. I would say about 10 times the amount of content that HoT does.

The first two DLC for ESO cost approximately $50 combined price. Each offered one zone and some peripheral stuff like dungeons/PvP. Arguably, ESO, being B2P is a better comparison point than WoW.

Galtrix.7369:

By this point, you’ll probably argue that Anet doesn’t have the number of employees that Blizzard does, and therefore doesn’t have to meet the content that WoW: Legion has set.

Nah, not gonna do that. I encourage critical analysis of value. I did not pay full price for HoT, after all.

Galtrix.7369:

And I will say: Well, they compared the price of their expansion to that of WoW’s, so did Anet just forget to compare the amount of content too?

Companies will consider two factors in pricing a product. (1) How much does it cost to produce; and (2) what the market will bear. Generally, the latter has to do with what one must pay to get a competing product (note: not a comparable product, a competing product). If the company’s product costs them more to produce than the expected sales * the cost the market will bear, they’ll lose money. They might go ahead anyway if they can recoup the cost via other price methods, like a virtual store. That’s how F2P games work, but it’s also why the quality generally isn’t all that great in F2P games.

Galtrix.7369:

Think about what you’re saying here. “Expansions also never contain the same amount of content as its core game”. True, but that DOES NOT warrant a 50 dollar price tag. You pay 60 dollars for a full game, and then 50 dollars for not even 1/10th of the content of the 60 dollar game? Logically, that’s a rip-off.

So far, I’ve played GW2 about 500 hours since I bought HoT in December. Most of that time involved the use of Elite Specs or Rev even if I was playing in core Tyria. The last time I bought a full RPG was DA:O, it cost $50 (It would be $60 if it came out today because the market price for games has increased since DA:O came out). I played it for about 100 hours. So, had I bought HoT at full price, I’d be paying $10 more (release retail) for a game like DA:O for 20% of the playtime.

Some games offer more playtime per dollar. Arguably, the best dollar value is the F2P game. What you have to ask yourself, there, though, is, “Does the business model also provide enjoyment?” For me, F2p games are annoying, not fun.

It’s pretty obvious to me that you don’t value what HoT offers. However, that doesn’t mean others cannot value it much higher than other games. That’s the subjective part. What can be objectively compared is a great deal less cut-and-dried than you make it out to be.

I prefer quality over quantity. HoT has good replayability, gorgeous design, amazing maps, awesome gameplay and a set of principles for valuable community play that you’ll never find in another mmo. Only real weak points were the WvW fumble and the subpar story. Other than that, is the best MMO game I’ve played.

So yes, I’ve been playing HoT almost 9 months, and I will keep playing for a long time yet.

Since 20th to 27th of july, hot is offically at $25.

Will they give you free gems upon purchasing heart of thorns? Or not because it is on sale?

Why would they give players free gems?

I think when it came out they gave players free gems

annakix.1986:

I think when it came out they gave players free gems

They didn’t get free gems. There was a free character slot but only for pre purchases. There were/are gems in the ultimate package but it’s not part of the sale.

Oh I see. Thanks

For $33 (canadian…dem exchange rates r bull) after I bought gw2 originally at launch for full….you know, its not bad but its not good. I’m not saying that cause of the fact im rebuying gw2 again…..i mean i actually support this practice as it brings more players in and its a great incentive/value to get them going in the game.

I’d be angry if I bought it for 66$. I’d be angry if I bought it for 50$. I mean they basically just reshipped existing content i alrdy bought and made stupid barriers that make me farm new stuff just so I can play stuff I used to be able to play.

I came back to the game right before hot shipped. ANd i held off on buying hot since there was a ton to do in the base game still for me. And it was very frustrating not having elite skills and being at a disadvantage in every mode.

Now that I have that elite mode tho and all this stuff…its not as big of an advantage as I thought it was. Its actually the opposite in many cases given i main a warrior. berserker spec is rly gimmick and not that powerful like i thought it would be.

but ive been really enjoying the hot story so far….which really really surprised me. im not gonna be buying the living world stuff with real money or anything. And I would have liked them to include ‘something else’ like the living world s2/3/gems/special items with the sale. All in all though…..alot of things r bugging me when im playing, but alot of the pve thigns are adding in a bit of happiness here and tehre.

Not a terrible purchase so far, wouldn’t really shout from the heavens and encourage others though. If you didn’t have the base gw2 game….yes I would highly encourage everyone to buy hot for this price. Its worth full price if you haven’t played base gw2 yet….you will get so much content for so little money.

Cerby.1069:

For $33 (canadian…dem exchange rates r bull) after I bought gw2 originally at launch for full….you know, its not bad but its not good. I’m not saying that cause of the fact im rebuying gw2 again…..i mean i actually support this practice as it brings more players in and its a great incentive/value to get them going in the game.

I’d be angry if I bought it for 66$. I’d be angry if I bought it for 50$. I mean they basically just reshipped existing content i alrdy bought and made stupid barriers that make me farm new stuff just so I can play stuff I used to be able to play.

I came back to the game right before hot shipped. ANd i held off on buying hot since there was a ton to do in the base game still for me. And it was very frustrating not having elite skills and being at a disadvantage in every mode.

Now that I have that elite mode tho and all this stuff…its not as big of an advantage as I thought it was. Its actually the opposite in many cases given i main a warrior. berserker spec is rly gimmick and not that powerful like i thought it would be.

but ive been really enjoying the hot story so far….which really really surprised me. im not gonna be buying the living world stuff with real money or anything. And I would have liked them to include ‘something else’ like the living world s2/3/gems/special items with the sale. All in all though…..alot of things r bugging me when im playing, but alot of the pve thigns are adding in a bit of happiness here and tehre.

Not a terrible purchase so far, wouldn’t really shout from the heavens and encourage others though. If you didn’t have the base gw2 game….yes I would highly encourage everyone to buy hot for this price. Its worth full price if you haven’t played base gw2 yet….you will get so much content for so little money.

You will receive Season 3 access with your purchase, as long as you continue to log-in while the Season is active. Same method as with Season 2.

Good luck.

Now that it’s 50% off sale, I say is the time to grab it. At 25$ it’s an excellent price for an excellent game. The prince/content ratio no longer broken and new things coming with LS3 only make it sweeter.

Well I posted my displeasure in this forum and various other places online when HoT came out about the pricing. Never mind that the price was the same amount of money the entire game used to cost. I felt it was a bad show of gratitude towards old customers who paid for their copies of GW2 when it launched and stuck around spending money in the in game shop since then. I said I would purchase HoT when it was on sale.

And now it is. I purchased my upgrade last night. Thanks ANet. Glad to be back.

GoGoBunny.6324:

Well I posted my displeasure in this forum and various other places online when HoT came out about the pricing. Never mind that the price was the same amount of money the entire game used to cost. I felt it was a bad show of gratitude towards old customers who paid for their copies of GW2 when it launched and stuck around spending money in the in game shop since then. I said I would purchase HoT when it was on sale.

And now it is. I purchased my upgrade last night. Thanks ANet. Glad to be back.

I was just like you, waiting for an inevitable discount. But man, what I’m seeing with bad feedback about HoT and displeasure of purchasing it. I have to hold my money. My loss or whatever, the only thing I am interested in HoT is probably Elite specs and that’s it. I’m already smell some sort of “bad news” when they started to offer free HoT with Core to new players and we had to pay the same full price. Even AFTER all these time, it still wont warrant my choice to pass my money for HoT. Even the White Mantle LS3 or whatever, the story is already down the drain and is just a pretext to keep “expansions” going. With waaaay too little zones to explore, and way too little armor set, it does not makes sense to me and also people who defend this pricing structure.

I am pretty sure they wanted to make up their loss selling HoT at lower profit and eventually not that many early players pre ordered their HoT (lets not forget the “most upvoted thread” reddit). And they dare to sell ONLY glider skins without any other attractive gliders AFTER you bought HoT because apparently there’s kitten tons of paywall behind everything what said on the “content” box. And lots of outfits being pumped endlessly on gemstore yet I haven’t seen any kind of new stuff outside than gliders and specialization “if you own HoT” that really interest me.

Things go downhill SINCE they started the HoT preorders and for new players too. I am pretty darn sure they knew they effed up their plans on pricing and see what happens to the gemstore with stuff that could have been obtained without gems.

Just give me kitten pass to get specialization and I don’t need your raids, your butchered “oh darn we can’t have this VA too often lets kill her character lol and replace with inferior dumblr-tier team” story, your jungle thing which MANAGED to be worse than the existing maps* and unenjoyable to follow, your excuse to “bring people together in complete new stuff” but actually a grindwall, your badly renamed “horizontal progression” is nothing more but to avoid people realize HoT have so little stuff to have and own by putting up Masteries to grind for.

Screw all that. Give me Specialization for 5$ and that’s it. I don’t need other garbage. Imma wait for the next expansion and see what happens next but boy I’m not buying. I probably even leave the game before they announced new xpac.

Some pretty vivid descriptions of content that you’ve not played there.

keramatzmode.1906:

GoGoBunny.6324:

Well I posted my displeasure in this forum and various other places online when HoT came out about the pricing. Never mind that the price was the same amount of money the entire game used to cost. I felt it was a bad show of gratitude towards old customers who paid for their copies of GW2 when it launched and stuck around spending money in the in game shop since then. I said I would purchase HoT when it was on sale.

And now it is. I purchased my upgrade last night. Thanks ANet. Glad to be back.

I was just like you, waiting for an inevitable discount. But man, what I’m seeing with bad feedback about HoT and displeasure of purchasing it. I have to hold my money. My loss or whatever, the only thing I am interested in HoT is probably Elite specs and that’s it. I’m already smell some sort of “bad news” when they started to offer free HoT with Core to new players and we had to pay the same full price. Even AFTER all these time, it still wont warrant my choice to pass my money for HoT. Even the White Mantle LS3 or whatever, the story is already down the drain and is just a pretext to keep “expansions” going. With waaaay too little zones to explore, and way too little armor set, it does not makes sense to me and also people who defend this pricing structure.

I am pretty sure they wanted to make up their loss selling HoT at lower profit and eventually not that many early players pre ordered their HoT (lets not forget the “most upvoted thread” reddit). And they dare to sell ONLY glider skins without any other attractive gliders AFTER you bought HoT because apparently there’s kitten tons of paywall behind everything what said on the “content” box. And lots of outfits being pumped endlessly on gemstore yet I haven’t seen any kind of new stuff outside than gliders and specialization “if you own HoT” that really interest me.

Things go downhill SINCE they started the HoT preorders and for new players too. I am pretty darn sure they knew they effed up their plans on pricing and see what happens to the gemstore with stuff that could have been obtained without gems.

Just give me kitten pass to get specialization and I don’t need your raids, your butchered “oh darn we can’t have this VA too often lets kill her character lol and replace with inferior dumblr-tier team” story, your jungle thing which MANAGED to be worse than the existing maps* and unenjoyable to follow, your excuse to “bring people together in complete new stuff” but actually a grindwall, your badly renamed “horizontal progression” is nothing more but to avoid people realize HoT have so little stuff to have and own by putting up Masteries to grind for.

Screw all that. Give me Specialization for 5$ and that’s it. I don’t need other garbage. Imma wait for the next expansion and see what happens next but boy I’m not buying. I probably even leave the game before they announced new xpac.

why stop at GW2, surely we should be able to pick and choose the bits from any game and any expansion and say ‘i will pay $5 for the bits I Like’ and worse feel the need to tell the world about it.

Ashen.2907:

Some pretty vivid descriptions of content that you’ve not played there.

Pretty much this. This is a big wall of words for someone who believes the reviews of others without having tried the content.

I’ve met quite a few people who bought the game and ended up liking it after expecting not to like it due to internet “reviews”.

Vayne.8563:

There’s no need for an excuse. Anet told us we were getting less content but they were redoing the game. Anet redid the game and gave us less content.

But those maps are still more fun than any expansion I’ve played in any MMO I’ve played. The fact is, there isn’t any excuse necessary. People need to look at the industry as a whole before they start pointing fingers and asking for excuses.

I agree with this — I just bought HoT during the Sale and the new zones are amazing. My head spins when I think about the effort that went into designing each one. Just the design of the layout is mind boggling. I’ve never seen this level of design in any game I’ve played, MMO or otherwise. The Designer(s) that created these maps deserve(s) a promotion!

I left GW2 a year ago, very disgruntled with how the franchise was handled. I didn’t expect much with HoT and didn’t feel that I should reward ANet with a purchase at release. I bit last week with the sale and it’s like a different game (seriously).

Soooo am I ever going to get anything in return for paying full retail for the first game?

All of the new players purchasing the expansion get everything I’ve paid for for free. When I pay for the expansion I will have effectively paid double for the content they get, does this seem/sound fair?

Any feedback would be appreciated.

How much time did you put into the game between buying retail and it going f2p?

King Cephalopod.7942:

How much time did you put into the game between buying retail and it going f2p?

Roughly $120, between the pre-order and some purchases… but the exact figure shouldn’t matter should it?

Calinc.2315:

King Cephalopod.7942:

How much time did you put into the game between buying retail and it going f2p?

Roughly $120, between the pre-order and some purchases… but the exact figure shouldn’t matter should it?

I said “time”, not money. Playing the game, not work hours towards paying for it.

King Cephalopod.7942:

Calinc.2315:

King Cephalopod.7942:

How much time did you put into the game between buying retail and it going f2p?

Roughly $120, between the pre-order and some purchases… but the exact figure shouldn’t matter should it?

I said “time”, not money. Playing the game, not work hours towards paying for it.

Enough time to make 4 level 80’s, farm a couple pre-cursors, get fully equipped for fractals… Hour wise I don’t know and I don’t really want to guess… But Since Guild Wars 1 I can guarantee it’s been over 2000 Hrs (1+2)

Calinc.2315:

Enough time to make 4 level 80’s, farm a couple pre-cursors, get fully equipped for fractals… Hour wise I don’t know and I don’t really want to guess… But Since Guild Wars 1 I can guarantee it’s been over 2000 Hrs (1+2)

Was that time enjoyable enough in your opinion to warrant $60? That’s ultimately what the thing boils down to. They get access for free because it’s dated content and Anet wants to bring in new players, but anyone coming in f2p hasn’t had any enjoyment out of the game from the time it was released until now. They’ll be getting into content people have been playing for years and moved on from, and they’ll have missed out on four potential years of fun. Since I think fun memories are a major chunk of the value in mmo’s, I’d say it’s fair. But it varies person to person. Regardless of opinion, though, the only thing Anet planned to give out is access to that outfit; f2p accounts are heavily restricted.

Calinc.2315:

Soooo am I ever going to get anything in return for paying full retail for the first game?

All of the new players purchasing the expansion get everything I’ve paid for for free. When I pay for the expansion I will have effectively paid double for the content they get, does this seem/sound fair?

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Here is some feedback … are you going to get anything in return? yes, you already have … lots of enjoyment from playing the game for thousands of hours.

Calinc.2315:

Soooo am I ever going to get anything in return for paying full retail for the first game?

All of the new players purchasing the expansion get everything I’ve paid for for free. When I pay for the expansion I will have effectively paid double for the content they get, does this seem/sound fair?

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Yes, 3+ years of enjoyment, access to content that will never return, access to prices and exchange rates that will never return, and the satisfaction and pride of being a long-term vet!

You’re welcome. =)

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Calinc.2315:

Soooo am I ever going to get anything in return for paying full retail for the first game?

All of the new players purchasing the expansion get everything I’ve paid for for free. When I pay for the expansion I will have effectively paid double for the content they get, does this seem/sound fair?

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Yes, 3+ years of enjoyment, access to content that will never return, access to prices and exchange rates that will never return, and the satisfaction and pride of being a long-term vet!

You’re welcome. =)

That’s a fair way to look at it. I guess the bother was the sensation that they turned the expansion into a money grab from the long time fans. I guess I’ll wait for another sale, I still don’t think the expansion is worth retail… not like the original was. And I bought all expansions for the original without complaints >.>

I think the Devs feel their hard work deserves decent pay, just as most of us feel about our work.

And, the expansion was not just what was released on the first day, but everything that comes after, as well. Can’t really tally up what all the content is worth until all the content associated with the expansion is released, imo.

New legendary new pvp maps (albeit bit ugly ones if you ask me) new pve maps – good good. Living story is finally patching up what the initial launch lacked and start to make HoT sound like a better deal now. Keep’em coming a-net, keep’em coming.

Oh, and for pete’s sake – do muster up a proper spvp balance team that will act more frequently then once 3 months. Say what you want about LoL but there balance runs aren’t your far away cousin that visits 4 times a year, on a good year…

I am still waiting to get free HoT cause i don’t have intention to pay 2 times for the same game

FreedomFTW.4275:

I am still waiting to get free HoT cause i don’t have intention to pay 2 times for the same game

Good news mate, just wait untill next expansion hits and you will get exactly that.
Since it will be bundled in with it.

FreedomFTW.4275:

I am still waiting to get free HoT cause i don’t have intention to pay 2 times for the same game

Good news: you’re not buying the game twice. The core game is free to those that pay the full price for the expansion. If you’d like that benefit, which all new players are getting, you can apply the registration key towards a brand new or f2p account. You’ll then get exactly what every new players gets.

Calinc.2315:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Calinc.2315:

Soooo am I ever going to get anything in return for paying full retail for the first game?

All of the new players purchasing the expansion get everything I’ve paid for for free. When I pay for the expansion I will have effectively paid double for the content they get, does this seem/sound fair?

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Yes, 3+ years of enjoyment, access to content that will never return, access to prices and exchange rates that will never return, and the satisfaction and pride of being a long-term vet!

You’re welcome. =)

That’s a fair way to look at it. I guess the bother was the sensation that they turned the expansion into a money grab from the long time fans. I guess I’ll wait for another sale, I still don’t think the expansion is worth retail… not like the original was. And I bought all expansions for the original without complaints >.>

People use terms like money-grab with such alarming frequency? But exactly what is a money grab here?

If you buy any triple A MMO, you’re pretty much buying the game, and then paying for the expansion. Now in the case of WoW and FF XIV, you’re also paying $15 each and every month for the priviledge of playing the game, plus paying for expansions and I believe both have cash shops on top of that, and I know WOW charges for server changes.

If you play SWTOR and ESO, and bought them at launch, you’d have paid a sub for a year (that’s $180 for those counting at home) and you’d still be paying for an expansion. In addition both games have optional subs…in the case of SWToR the optional isn’t really optional.

Now, if you go a step further and look at the fact that games like WoW and EQ are both giving away all past expansions if you own the core game and buy the new expansion— doesn’t Guild Wars 2 have to try to compete.

The big issue with MMOs is that the longer you wait to get into them, the greater the barrier to entry. And since all MMOs suffer natural attrition over time, getting those new players in is vital,, not only to the company for profit, but for the existing veteran player base.

The best thing Anet could possibly do for existing veterans is to remove barriers to entry for those who haven’t started playing yet. I’m a long term veteran and I’m really happy that they game is being offered for free to new players. They’re not screwing me..they’re keeping the game healthy.

Maybe if I were playing WoW or FFXIV and had to pay $180 a year just to be here, I’d feel the expansion is overpriced. But I don’t pay a sub fee and I think that the price isn’t so unreasonable…particularly as current players also get the Living World Season 3 for free, which so far has come with two new zones.

If you don’t buy the expansion now, at least make sure you log in regularly (assuming you own the original game) so you unlock the new Living Story zones. Some people have already missed unlocking the first chapter for free.

I can’t believe this thread is still going

Vayne.8563:

Calinc.2315:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Calinc.2315:

Soooo am I ever going to get anything in return for paying full retail for the first game?

All of the new players purchasing the expansion get everything I’ve paid for for free. When I pay for the expansion I will have effectively paid double for the content they get, does this seem/sound fair?

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Yes, 3+ years of enjoyment, access to content that will never return, access to prices and exchange rates that will never return, and the satisfaction and pride of being a long-term vet!

You’re welcome. =)

That’s a fair way to look at it. I guess the bother was the sensation that they turned the expansion into a money grab from the long time fans. I guess I’ll wait for another sale, I still don’t think the expansion is worth retail… not like the original was. And I bought all expansions for the original without complaints >.>

People use terms like money-grab with such alarming frequency? But exactly what is a money grab here?

If you buy any triple A MMO, you’re pretty much buying the game, and then paying for the expansion. Now in the case of WoW and FF XIV, you’re also paying $15 each and every month for the priviledge of playing the game, plus paying for expansions and I believe both have cash shops on top of that, and I know WOW charges for server changes.

If you play SWTOR and ESO, and bought them at launch, you’d have paid a sub for a year (that’s $180 for those counting at home) and you’d still be paying for an expansion. In addition both games have optional subs…in the case of SWToR the optional isn’t really optional.

Now, if you go a step further and look at the fact that games like WoW and EQ are both giving away all past expansions if you own the core game and buy the new expansion— doesn’t Guild Wars 2 have to try to compete.

The big issue with MMOs is that the longer you wait to get into them, the greater the barrier to entry. And since all MMOs suffer natural attrition over time, getting those new players in is vital,, not only to the company for profit, but for the existing veteran player base.

The best thing Anet could possibly do for existing veterans is to remove barriers to entry for those who haven’t started playing yet. I’m a long term veteran and I’m really happy that they game is being offered for free to new players. They’re not screwing me..they’re keeping the game healthy.

Maybe if I were playing WoW or FFXIV and had to pay $180 a year just to be here, I’d feel the expansion is overpriced. But I don’t pay a sub fee and I think that the price isn’t so unreasonable…particularly as current players also get the Living World Season 3 for free, which so far has come with two new zones.

If you don’t buy the expansion now, at least make sure you log in regularly (assuming you own the original game) so you unlock the new Living Story zones. Some people have already missed unlocking the first chapter for free.

Yes its good they give the unlock of lw s3 to everyone if they log in during the months each is released so they can use it when they buy into the game.
Regardless if its hot or the next expansion.

FreedomFTW.4275:

I am still waiting to get free HoT cause i don’t have intention to pay 2 times for the same game

This is such an odd complaint. You paid for the original game. Now there’s an expansion to it. Why would you expect to receive an expansion for free? Is that a thing out there somewhere in the MMO universe? Free expansions? Who does that? No MMO I’ve ever played offers expansions free of charge.

You’re welcome to not pay for it all you like, but your expectations are simply unreasonable. ANet doesn’t owe you new products for life just because you once paid them for the original release of GW2!

@Vayne and @Ayrilana, you are defending the game with such a passion…

First off, I think people overreact about price and the ‘I PAID ALREADY FOR ORIGINAL GAME’ argument. They played hundreds or thousands of hours for 3 years and got well worth their fair share of playtime.

But hear this: You can argue whatever you want there are two rather strong suspicions that lead to a not-so-good marketing strategy and failure (in regards of anet’s/ncsoft’s expectations):

1. The overwhelmingly negative reaction about the price of the expansion compared to actual content (landmass, dungeons etc.). Features-wise the expansion delivered though. Also they didn’t meet expectations sales-wise. It wasn’t bad either, but they expected more. So, somewhere they din’t deliver what a lot of people expected/wanted.

2. The treatment towards veterans. I was puzzled that I first didn’t even get a single additional character slot. In GW1 you got 2 slots per additional campaign (yeah, you’ll start to argue that it’s a campaign and no expansion…). After the nerd-rage emerging in the forums and reddit they at least added one additional slot for people who already had the game. But then again only under certain conditions; you can’t get it anymore.
Additionally, they ask charges for LS2 which is a very bad move. They could have marketed the expansion better (like ’HoT – LS2 included!). The story is so much tightly knit to the events in HoT. And it was for free anyway during the release.

ProtoGunner.4953:

@Vayne and @Ayrilana, you are defending the game with such a passion…

First off, I think people overreact about price and the ‘I PAID ALREADY FOR ORIGINAL GAME’ argument. They played hundreds or thousands of hours for 3 years and got well worth their fair share of playtime.

But hear this: You can argue whatever you want there are two rather strong suspicions that lead to a not-so-good marketing strategy and failure (in regards of anet’s/ncsoft’s expectations):

1. The overwhelmingly negative reaction about the price of the expansion compared to actual content (landmass, dungeons etc.). Features-wise the expansion delivered though. Also they didn’t meet expectations sales-wise. It wasn’t bad either, but they expected more. So, somewhere they din’t deliver what a lot of people expected/wanted.

2. The treatment towards veterans. I was puzzled that I first didn’t even get a single additional character slot. In GW1 you got 2 slots per additional campaign (yeah, you’ll start to argue that it’s a campaign and no expansion…). After the nerd-rage emerging in the forums and reddit they at least added one additional slot for people who already had the game. But then again only under certain conditions; you can’t get it anymore.
Additionally, they ask charges for LS2 which is a very bad move. They could have marketed the expansion better (like ’HoT – LS2 included!). The story is so much tightly knit to the events in HoT. And it was for free anyway during the release.

First of all, speaking what you believe is true isn’t the same as defending the game. I’d defend any game in the same situation.

The fact is, and it is a fact, if you pay four months of WoW, you’re paying more than the price of the expansion. That means if you bought heart of thorns and played it for four months, you’ve broken even with what WoW would charge for an expansion…except for one thing. WoW also charges for an expansion. SO you’re paying for the expansion and an extra three months, which becomes a lot more than the price of the Guild Wars 2 expansion.

You can’t just look at the price of the expansion, you have to look at the entire way games are funded. Different games are funded differently.

I’ve played sub games and I’ve played free to play games and games with optional subscriptions. I haven’t found any to be particularly more generous than Guild Wars 2, but I’ve found a few to be less generous.

At the end of the day, I don’t feel like Guild Wars 2 nickles and dimes me to death, nor do I have to pay for a sub.

It’s a fact that if you own WoW and buy the current expansion you get all past expansions for free. That’s a lot more than just getting the core game for free.

At the end of the day, companies have to be competitive.

As for the game not selling as many copies as expected there are a ton of reasons that might be the case, and saying that it’s because the expansion didn’t contain enough might or might not be a major factor.

You can’t ignore other decisions Anet made like the dungeon nerf. Nor can you ignore a ton of bad publicity, which means, a lot of people didn’t try the expansion. They looked at the negative publicity and didn’t buy. Those people only have an idea of how much content is there from reading, not from playing.

At the end of the day, the expansion probably was priced too highly but all the other arguments I’ve made are fact, not opinion.

GW2 is still an incredible value compared to all other options — even F2P. I cannot think of a good F2P game that I didn’t eventually throw money at (the best being LotRO imho which still got my money in the end).

However I did not buy HoT at launch mostly because of the price (along with some other issue I had with GW2 at the time). I did buy HoT during the $25 sale and that was a great deal now that I’ve played it. I’m still playing it and don’t see an end in sight — so many play choices!

At this point, I’m excited about the next expansion and will probably pre-order it when available.

DoctorDing.5890:

I can’t believe this thread is still going

Me neither. I thought all players that had their own opinion would be perma-banned by now.

juno.1840:

GW2 is still an incredible value compared to all other options — even F2P.

Or more accurately, only F2P. No one argues that GW2 is a bargain at $0. It’s the absurd price of HoT that we revolt over. ANet trying to charge $50 for a yet unfinished series of patches (which some of you still suffer from the delusion could summarily be referred to as an expansion) don’t mean it’s worth above $4.99. And all of that should go to the map design and music.

LoL NooBs.5076:

DoctorDing.5890:

I can’t believe this thread is still going

Me neither. I thought all players that had their own opinion would be perma-banned by now.

juno.1840:

GW2 is still an incredible value compared to all other options — even F2P.

Or more accurately, only F2P. No one argues that GW2 is a bargain at $0. It’s the absurd price of HoT that we revolt over. ANet trying to charge $50 for a yet unfinished series of patches (which some of you still suffer from the delusion could summarily be referred to as an expansion) don’t mean it’s worth above $4.99. And all of that should go to the map design and music.

It’s similarly priced to other expansions including EotN. No expansion will have content proportional to that of the core game when it comes to price. Whether the expansion is worth the price to individual player depends on their own personal preferences. I personally found the expansion to be well worth it as have many others.

Edit: Typos. I hate autocorrect.

LoL NooBs.5076:

DoctorDing.5890:

I can’t believe this thread is still going

Me neither. I thought all players that had their own opinion would be perma-banned by now.

juno.1840:

GW2 is still an incredible value compared to all other options — even F2P.

Or more accurately, only F2P. No one argues that GW2 is a bargain at $0. It’s the absurd price of HoT that we revolt over. ANet trying to charge $50 for a yet unfinished series of patches (which some of you still suffer from the delusion could summarily be referred to as an expansion) don’t mean it’s worth above $4.99. And all of that should go to the map design and music.

Hmm, to each their own I guess. I consider HoT to be fairly reasonably priced for the amount of content, encounters, art, etc. I can honestly say that I don’t care for HoT (except for mob difficulty, which is not enough for me to play in zones I otherwise dislike) but dont see it as overpriced at all.

There is, of course, an extremely easy means of dealing with something that is priced higher than one can justify (according to budget or preference) paying…

…dont pay for it. Perhaps wait for a sale. This takes no effort from you at all. You dont even have to ask for a sale, one will come.

ProtoGunner.4953:

@Vayne and @Ayrilana, you are defending the game with such a passion…

First off, I think people overreact about price and the ‘I PAID ALREADY FOR ORIGINAL GAME’ argument. They played hundreds or thousands of hours for 3 years and got well worth their fair share of playtime.

But hear this: You can argue whatever you want there are two rather strong suspicions that lead to a not-so-good marketing strategy and failure (in regards of anet’s/ncsoft’s expectations):

1. The overwhelmingly negative reaction about the price of the expansion compared to actual content (landmass, dungeons etc.). Features-wise the expansion delivered though. Also they didn’t meet expectations sales-wise. It wasn’t bad either, but they expected more. So, somewhere they din’t deliver what a lot of people expected/wanted.

2. The treatment towards veterans. I was puzzled that I first didn’t even get a single additional character slot. In GW1 you got 2 slots per additional campaign (yeah, you’ll start to argue that it’s a campaign and no expansion…). After the nerd-rage emerging in the forums and reddit they at least added one additional slot for people who already had the game. But then again only under certain conditions; you can’t get it anymore.
Additionally, they ask charges for LS2 which is a very bad move. They could have marketed the expansion better (like ’HoT – LS2 included!). The story is so much tightly knit to the events in HoT. And it was for free anyway during the release.

Fair points, and people are certainly welcome to their opinions regardless. Having said that, as a new-ish arrival to GW2 earlier this year coming over from WoW, I was a little surprised at the reaction.

From WoW I’m used to the expansion model: Release an expansion and then spend the time between the next expansion fleshing out that content. That is how they do it over in WoW and it appears to be what they’re doing here as well. There isn’t really any other way you can do it, is there? Short of just not doing expansions at all?

Yet some players here seemed to be working under the assumption that expansions should be complete upon release and that anything less is effectively a bait-and-switch. They told you it was an expansion, but didn’t have all of the content they intend to include ready upon release. No fair!

On the second point, I agree. They should definitely throw a bone to their loyal customers, taking care not to alienate potential new players. I would not mind seeing tiered rewards of some sort for established players who purchase the latest expansion. By “tiered” I mean someone who bought the original game AND HoT AND whatever the next expansion is called should receive some sort of loyalty reward above what a player like myself who only signed on for HoT receives.

LoL NooBs.5076:

DoctorDing.5890:

I can’t believe this thread is still going

Me neither. I thought all players that had their own opinion would be perma-banned by now.

juno.1840:

GW2 is still an incredible value compared to all other options — even F2P.

Or more accurately, only F2P. No one argues that GW2 is a bargain at $0. It’s the absurd price of HoT that we revolt over. ANet trying to charge $50 for a yet unfinished series of patches (which some of you still suffer from the delusion could summarily be referred to as an expansion) don’t mean it’s worth above $4.99. And all of that should go to the map design and music.

As always, you’re welcome to your opinion, but $50 is pretty much industry standard for MMOs, in my experience. We aren’t playing cell phone games here where you can work on a shoe-string budget with no staff and put out the same game with a slightly different package on it every few months for $4.99.

Yeah, it’s “unfinished” because they will continue to develop for the entire life cycle of the expansion, all under the umbrella of your initial purchase. They could charge us less up front and then $4.99 for every major content patch to follow, but I doubt most players would be happy with that model. It works for google play, not so much for MMOs.

Dear voters. You get scammed by one company, move to another, maybe feel a slightly better treatment. You think a product (or a presidential candidate) being not as bad as another instantly makes it good? Have you considered you went too far in accepting getting screwed over as the industry standard? Could it be you are just too proud to admit you were had too many times, and thus feel the personal urge to overly distinguish your experiences by simplistically assigning them completely binary values, even when they may differ only slightly? And then recommend to other people, based on that? I’m not saying that’s the case, but I’m curious if you ask yourselves these things.

And Ashen, if you come back at me, could we please keep your Chevy out of it this time? Meanwhile, I will take your advice and never pay for HoT. I paid too much for core GW2 and look where that got me.