Guild Wars 2

I’m confused right now on the pricing plans. I don’t care about the digital deluxe or collector’s editions for this matter. I’m just aggravated at what seems to be neglect towards old players, and spoiling new players.

Nope.

. What about the old players? The ones who have played since release day ANTICIPATING SOME NEW @#$%^(* CONTENT for years now. We have to pay an extra $50, that I quite frankly don’t have.

You got three years of gameplay. You have LITERALLY zero reason to complain about this.

Take 50 cents off my purchase even, make me feel pretty. Make me feel like there is reason to come back to this game each time they want to release something new.

There is a reason, it’s called “Heart of Thorns,” look it up.

Nah, I just think I should be paying the same price as anyone else. Not spending twice as much for people that haven’t been around for the long haul.

I’m saying they can wipe all of my stuff off my account. I know exactly what to do to get it all back, they haven’t given me anything through the years to make my account special anyways lol

Were you complaining this much when they dropped the price to $30, and $10? “Where’s my $50 refund?!” Do you not understand how price discounts work?

Innamorta.5713:

Zalladi.4652:

Innamorta.5713:

It would make more since if they want to give old players; ones who registered a serial code before a certain date, something exclusive.

In case you missed it; veteran players who had purchased the game before January 23rd are given a free character slot when purchasing any edition of Heart of Thorns. So in that regard, there is some form of exclusivity, but as to whether that is worth anything is up to your opinion.

Source

That’s the idea of loyalty to veteran players? I’d be 1000% happier if they would let me refund my account the same way newer players can.

Seriously, let me refund my account so that I can put it towards the xpac – since it comes with the core game. Otherwise I feel like they are trying to bend me over and hammer me from behind.

With all due respect, you’re not thinking this through properly. If you use this line of thinking you might as well only buy the game once Anet announce they’re going to close it.

As Anet already stated this isnt a one time deal, they’ll keep doing this. So 10 years down the line when they’re releasing their 4th expansion that will cost $50 and will include Core game+Hot+Expansion 2 and Expansion 3. But that doesnt mean Core game, HoT, expansion 2- 3 are free.

They only become free once the next one releases.

Since your logic is that as a day one player you deserve the “best Deal” a new player will ever get you’d need to wait until essentially game closure because the best deal will only happen once the last expansion releases.

Tell me is it really worth-ed?

This is also a really simplistic way to look at the whole thing because you didnt factor a lot of important elements.

Lets assume Gw2 closes after 6 years from release.

Yes a new player today gets to pay $50+$20 (Living story Season 2) and enjoy the game for 3 years while totally missing Living Story Season 1 (worth another $20 just to quantify it somehow). So Total payed here is $70 but missed out on $20 worth of content. That means a new player paid $23 per year, $30 if we factor in Season 1

You got to pay $110 and enjoyed the game for 6 years including both Seasons. So you paid $18 per year

new players may be paying less on paper but they’re definitely not getting the better deal.

But thats not all.

New players can fork in $20 an enjoy season 2 but do you think they’ll get the same experience we got? Do you think doing that content solo years later will be the same as doing it while its happening and having the epic scale you get when the whole server is doing events with you? Or the awesome speculation that was to be had in between releases trying to figure out whats next? new players cant really get that.

As for what Arenanet are doing to you personally with this deal, its actually nothing. If they decide to give away their work for free, they’re not cheating you who paid for it years ago, the only one “suffering” here is them who now dont get paid for the work they did for the 5 years prior to release. Doing that decision doesnt in any shape or form mean they shouldnt get paid for those 5 years for work from no one

Kaiyanwan.8521:

It is the new strategy of game companies to sell little content at a full price:

Elite Dangerous: Horizons Expansion only comes as bundle with the original game
Destiny: The Taking King Expansion was planned to only be sold as a bundle (massive uproar changed that)
Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns Expansion only comes as a bundle with the original game.

The lesson that should be learnt from Destiny is, that making enough noice can make a difference.

Unfortunately, the GW2 community is one of the best and nicest around, which the DEV’s seem to see as an excuse to throw this kitten at their players without any worries. And true, more players are justifying this madness and defending the cash grab than people actually questioning it.

Impressive, ANet.

How is that the same thing?

For starters both Elite Dangerous and Destiny are not including the base game for free. In case of destiny the issue was the base game was included in the collectors edition (not for Free) so if you wanted the digital goodies that come with the collectors edition you had to rebuy the base game. Proof expansion costs $40, Collector edition costs $80. To fix this issue they’re allowing people to buy the digital goodies with the collectors edition for $20 so essentially people were paying $20 extra for something they already owned. In Gw2 no one is paying anything extra for the core game.

But anyway I am curious about the core of your statement. So you think what Anet did is a cash grab. Fine you’re entitled to your opinion. Whats the alternative ? I mean somehow expansions need to be handled. You can either do what Gw2 is doing, or what Gw1 did or what WoW does.

In Gw1 they made each expansion with the exception of EOTN a standalone campaign. that means you were free to decide weather to buy it or not without any issues great. The only exception being EOTN but since it was the only one exception it pretty much worked like the stand alone campaigns. Had Utopia released most likely it would have followed the WoW model which is each expansion requires all previous expansions.

So which one is really the cash grab? lets check it out shall we ?

Gw2 you pay for which ever expansion you want. if they ever release something that doesnt entice you, you can skip it and buy the next… no harm no foul, you dont get to pay for content you dont like. Great. Expansions are slightly cheaper then full game.

Gw1. you pay for which every campaign you want. If you didnt like say deserty settings for some reason you could skip nightfall and all is good. campaigns cost exactly the same as the core game. You didnt have to pay for content you didnt want. Slightly more expensive then what Gw2 does but still at least you have freedom to buy what you want.

The other alternative used by games like WoW is each Expansion requires the previous ones. They generally cost a bit less then what Anet are charging but if you dont enjoy a particular release ? sorry you need to buy it if you want to continue playing the game.

To be fair there is yet another release model and thats to have no expansion at all, small dlcs which have a modest $5-$10 price tag. This is probably the worst because game that use such model generally throw out 4-5 of these per year making them about 3 times more expensive then all the other models.

So why exactly do you think what Anet doing is the cash grab, which alternative model would you like them to use thats more fair?

EvilReaperZ.7920:

$50 is alot for partial of a game, some more the patch are mainly to further ruin WvW experience that had been ignored for the past 3 years.

and now that DirectX 12 is out, they’re charging 50$ without any thoughts of porting the game from The Ancient Dx9 to anything later…

You are looking at quite some time before any games will be using DX12. Guild Wars 2 is running off a modified version of the GW1 engine which was released 2005 so.. 10 years ago. What they have done is pretty impressive, considering it is a 10 year old engine. I doubt they would have the time or the resources to utilise DX11 without having to shut down the entire game for a lengthy period of time.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

It is the new strategy of game companies to sell little content at a full price:

Elite Dangerous: Horizons Expansion only comes as bundle with the original game
Destiny: The Taking King Expansion was planned to only be sold as a bundle (massive uproar changed that)
Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns Expansion only comes as a bundle with the original game.

The lesson that should be learnt from Destiny is, that making enough noice can make a difference.

Unfortunately, the GW2 community is one of the best and nicest around, which the DEV’s seem to see as an excuse to throw this kitten at their players without any worries. And true, more players are justifying this madness and defending the cash grab than people actually questioning it.

Impressive, ANet.

The difference between this and Destiny is that Destiny is:
1: a 1 year old game (vs GW) that has already had:
2: 2 DLC expansions (granted vs Living story 1 & 2 but you could make enough in gold to grab those without forking over any real money)

Asking its current consumer base to fork over money again (albeit at a lower price point) for its base game + 2 DLC (no other way to justify its $100 price tag unlike HoT which costs $50) was a big no-no. I would know cos I was part of that big uproar (playing Destiny on my ps4) and to date have yet to decide if I’m going to give Bungie-vision any money for TTK.

Innamorta.5713:

Kidel.2057:

Even if you get the package with 1 extra slot, if you are a veteran you get an additional one.

If you got gw2 after the 23rd of January then you can buy HoT and ask for a refund of your base game cost. After buying HoT if you don’t want your account deactivated.

It’s all in the FAQ however.

Getting two extra slots when I don’t even use the default 5 slots is completely meaningless. I bought GW2 on release back in 2012, and I have played a single character for over 2 years, I don’t need two more slots that I will never touch.

I just want my $50 back and my account deleted so I can afford Heart of Thorns.

Innamorta, I’m just curious if you feel the same way about every “Game-of-the-year” edition that comes out or every time Steam holds a summer sale. That’s because that’s kind of what I consider this to be. If it gets more players into the game and makes the population feel larger (not saying that it currently feels small) then that’s a good thing. If you would rather waste 2 years of content and playing and time invested (that’s what will happen if you get your account deleted) just to save $50 then I’m not sure how much your time is worth… I’d recommend just pulling an extra shift or something to get HoT…. =P

Galen Grey.4709:

So why exactly do you think what Anet doing is the cash grab, which alternative model would you like them to use thats more fair?

Sell the kitten expansion as an expansion. And sell a bundle for people that do not own the base game.

Look, Elite Dangerous wants to do the same, sell the expansion for $49.99 including the base game. But there won’t be a way to buy just the expansion, so this is a 100% similar case.

If the GW2 expansion does not come close to the amount you would expect from a full game release, my educated guess is that the forums will burn.

Because people literally pay the price of a full game. They expect the amount of a stand-alone product. And if ANet’s logic is right, just the expansion is worth $50 in their minds.

The alarming thing is that everyone at ANet started talking how this expansion will be the foundation for all other stuff, which implies it will be smaller, because they spent so much time doing the ground work.

But they did say the same thing about fractals, guild missions, and even dungeons, every single time they introduced some stuff: they did the groundwork for the future. Sure, that worked out well.

After three years, what this game needs is not more ground work, it needs content. Ground work should be happening all the time and not sold as an excuse for less content for a big price tag.

I don’t want to pay for the ground work. This is the game designers job, and if they still have to work so desperately on the basics on a game that has been released three years ago, maybe it is time to hire some more and more skilled people.

And if ANet always has to start from zero, they could just work on a successor like GW3 and sell it for a full retail prize.

Bottom line:

If ANet just sells the expansion for a lower prize tag, people will accept less content.
If ANet sells the expansion for the prize of a full game, people will expect a full game worth of content.

I really hope ANet can deliver, otherwise this forum will no longer be a place for civilized discussions.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Look, Elite Dangerous wants to do the same, sell the expansion for $49.99 including the base game. But there won’t be a way to buy just the expansion, so this is a 100% similar case.

Frontier are knocking £10 off the price of Horizons if you already own Elite Dangerous.
Look at the chart at the bottom.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=172800

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Galen Grey.4709:

So why exactly do you think what Anet doing is the cash grab, which alternative model would you like them to use thats more fair?

Sell the kitten expansion as an expansion. And sell a bundle for people that do not own the base game.

That goes counter to what they’re trying to do, which is entice people who didnt think Gw2 was worthy so far by offering them a better deal. It will also become progressively worst. 10 years down the line how many new players will you get when they look at Gw2 and see they need to pay $100s to enjoy the new episodic content? Worst yet you’re not going to charge full price so if people are against anet giving Gw2 for free what makes you think they’d be okey if they charge $10 for it?

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Look , Elite Dangerous wants to do the same, sell the expansion for $49.99 including the base game. But there won’t be a way to buy just the expansion, so this is a 100% similar case.

Wrong. Actually Elite dangerous did exactly as you suggested, they created a seamless bundle. $60 for the Game and the Expansion, $50 if you already have the game. Physically they’re the same item sure but it has different price if you already own the game or not which essentially makes it a bundle that includes the base game for $10 if you dont own it.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

If the GW2 expansion does not come close to the amount you would expect from a full game release, my educated guess is that the forums will burn.

The forum burn if Anet give away stuff for free so yeah no surprise there. Even if they do I am sure people will find something to be unhappy about.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Because people literally pay the price of a full game. They expect the amount of a stand-alone product. And if ANet’s logic is right, just the expansion is worth $50 in their minds.

Which is already flawed logic. Example howlongtobeat.com puts The order 1886 to an average of 8hrs and the witcher 3 to 97hrs. On top of that The Witcher 3 had a slightly smaller price at release. I am sure that HoT will keep people busy for much longer then 97hrs. even assuming we get 3 seasons of living story during HoTs lifetime might account for 97hrs alone. so how much is an hour of game play really worth? Truth is it cant be quantified this way.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

The alarming thing is that everyone at ANet started talking how this expansion will be the foundation for all other stuff, which implies it will be smaller, because they spent so much time doing the ground work.

How does foundation imply smaller? If anything it implies that they’ll continue building onto what they release and knowing Anet that may very well mean we’ll be getting more free updates to enhance HoT while we wait for whatever expansion is next.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

But they did say the same thing about fractals, guild missions, and even dungeons, every single time they introduced some stuff: they did the groundwork for the future. Sure, that worked out well.

Shouldnt we wait for a full HoT reveal before making statements such as this?

Kaiyanwan.8521:

After three years, what this game needs is not more ground work, it needs content. Ground work should be happening all the time and not sold as an excuse for less content for a big price tag.

No reason why ground work and content shouldnt go hand it in hand. If they did what you suggest and never innovated on the existent systems we’d always have more of the same and not sure that would make everyone happy.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

I don’t want to pay for the ground work. This is the game designers job, and if they still have to work so desperately on the basics on a game that has been released three years ago, maybe it is time to hire some more and more skilled people.

Then doesn’t the business model Anet employed and that you dont agree with at all, actually make it perfect for you. If you feel HoT only did ground work and you dont want to pay for that because you feel it doesnt give you anything of value, fine skip it. Come next provided they deliver it meat you’re after you get it for free. Other model would still have you pay for it.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

And if ANet always has to start from zero, they could just work on a successor like GW3 and sell it for a full retail prize.

When ever did they start from 0? thats not what iterating means. in fact it means the exact opposite.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Bottom line:

If ANet just sells the expansion for a lower prize tag, people will accept less content.
If ANet sells the expansion for the prize of a full game, people will expect a full game worth of content.

I really hope ANet can deliver, otherwise this forum will no longer be a place for civilized discussions.

Again how exactly do you quantify how much content is $50?

C’mon Galen, if we get something similar to the 100 hours of Witcher 3 story and gameplay quality, I will be more than willing to pay $50 twice. How can you even compare these titels.

But in the end, it will not be me who will quantify how much content is worthy the $50, it will be the community. You are right, I am not yet sure if I will buy the two copies of HoT (for me and my wife) as we both are less than convinced of what this expansion actually got to offer.
We are also not in a hurry to buy it, and maybe we will skip it. But here is the thing, I don’t think we will come back, even if the next next expansion looks like a good deal. Because we have moved on at that point.
Like nowadays you only need the last expansion of WoW to play all the content, did I start playing again (stopped end of 2008) for all those free expansions I can enjoy now? No. And it will be the same with GW2.

ANet is at a high risk with their expansion plans. They might lose more veteran players every single expansion because they feel ripped off, while the newer players will become veterans and will be facing the “worse deal” scenario the next time, an endless circle of disappointment incoming…

Sure, only time will tell, but I am willing to wait and see.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

C’mon Galen, if we get something similar to the 100 hours of Witcher 3 story and gameplay quality, I will be more than willing to pay $50 twice. How can you even compare these titels.

Thats precisely my point though. Thats exactly why I asked you how can anyone ever quantify something like this. Even the order 1886, it may be short but that doesnt mean it didnt have production value that justified its price, does it! like wise The witcher 3 may been 100hrs or so long but undoubtedly it has production value thats really hard to match. You said it yourself you’re willing to pay $100 for something thats essentially 10 times smaller then Gw2 which means value is not something thats simply quantified based on content size.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

But in the end, it will not be me who will quantify how much content is worthy the $50, it will be the community. You are right, I am not yet sure if I will buy the two copies of HoT (for me and my wife) as we both are less than convinced of what this expansion actually got to offer.

Thing is all comments I read on the subject all state the same thing “they’re charging as much as the core game so it better have the same amount of content” never mind that technically its $10 less but anyhow… no one seems to be stopping and considering that its not simply a question of quantity, its also a question of quality and boy playing in the beta one immediately sees there is a jump in quality across the board. Will it have the same amount of content? of course not thats impossible. They’ve been working 2 maybe 3 years on this max, they split their employees in multiple teams (Living story, Festival events, fractals, pvp, supporting the live game etc..) how can whatever they produce match the whole team working unified on the core game for 5 years, its not a realistic expectation. But so what, which expansion is ever as large as the game its expanding. What about all the updates it came with? $50 for a game that kept me busy for 3 years is a huge bargain.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

We are also not in a hurry to buy it, and maybe we will skip it. But here is the thing, I don’t think we will come back, even if the next next expansion looks like a good deal. Because we have moved on at that point.
Like nowadays you only need the last expansion of WoW to play all the content, did I start playing again (stopped end of 2008) for all those free expansions I can enjoy now? No. And it will be the same with GW2.

yeah 10 years later now core game includes all previous expansions though it is still unknown if they will keep doing it going forward.

If you dont like the game you dont like the game, no amazing offer is going to change that but I didnt say regain old players I said new players. If I never tried wow do you really think it will not make a difference to me that paying $20 gets me also all expansions? its much more enticing to try rather then knowing if I enjoy the game I will not only have to pay a sub but also a bunch of $40 in relatively short order.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

ANet is at a high risk with their expansion plans. They might lose more veteran players every single expansion because they feel ripped off, while the newer players will become veterans and will be facing the “worse deal” scenario the next time, an endless circle of disappointment incoming…

Sure, only time will tell, but I am willing to wait and see.

Anet have the largest MMO development team I am aware of (short of WoW ofcourse). They also chucked out most free content in between expansion of any MMO I am aware off (including WoW) while developing their expansion. They also have a relatively long expansion development cycle. Will some players feel ripped off? sure! does that automatically mean they’re justified? No. You dont price things just to make people happy you also need to factor in your expenses and what return your investors are expecting. Keeping most of your players but loosing investor backing can be just as disastrous after all.

You need to find a balance because ultimately you cannot make everyone happy. If a player is willing to drop your game over $3.33 per year ($10 over 3 years) probably that player has much bigger issues with your game then price anyway. After all using wow as an example once again there are over 5m people who consistently don’t feel ripped off paying $15×24 + $40 = $400 per expansion cycle and that cylce is 33% shorter which makes it even worst. Does any of this mean that everyone should be happy with what Anet charges? No of course not, ultimately you’re right, it will be players who decide if the price is justified or not. That being said it is my opinion that this whole thing is being blown up way out of proportion.

onic.4537:

I’m looking at this with a different view. I could care less. Whether or not Guild wars 2 core game is included I’m evaluating my thoughts on the game based off of what arena net said that the expansion are alone worth $50 . My issue with this is ignoring all of the core content there not much here for my 50 bucks so far I only know about one map that expands to something similar to three maps, a bunch of new skills, legendary crafting, a new class, and Guildhalls don’t get me wrong. These are great things, but my issue is with the lack of information about content that’s coming with this. It’s so far is not justified getten the purchase in my eyes, but it’s very important to note that not much information has been released yet so far. If I were to judge the expansion with what’s been shown so far. I would say be worth around anywhere between $20-$30. That’s only because the lack of information. as more of the expansion is revealed. It may justify the $50 price tag , but only time will tell. And if it turns out there’s not much content with it . They will lower the price. When sells begin to dwindle I would recommend for the best course of action for most people right now is to wait and not preorder until they feel like the content of the expansion alone is worth 50$ To them.

Totally agree

Whoa…… haven’t been around in a while. Found out the the expansion was on Pre-order. $50 for an expansion when you already have the base game is pretty steep. In addition there is no indication of an extra slot for the Revenant other than purchasing the Deluxe or Ultimate pack. (Which I wouldn’t) I understand it includes the core game as a standalone expansion. Then I did notice that if we have a registered copy then the extra slot. Regardless it’s an expansion with a new class and you wouldn’t even include a slot?!?!?

I digress. I’m hesitant because of the price. For 1 new class and the extra stuff that’s a bit more than I would like to pay. Especially when I already have the core game.

The expectation is that If HoT were being bundled with GW2 in a boxed retail package, the player would get two serial #s. One would be for Hearst of Thorns and one would be for the GW2 base product. They could then pass long the unused GW2 serial # to a friend, etc… We know this because in the past with GW1 when Eye of the North was bundled with the Core game this is how it shipped.

In the digital download realm it enabled software vendors to be more specific with what their aiming to do with these sort of promotions. They can prevent players from taking the unused serial # and selling it or giving it away (something the license agreement probably prohibits anyway). All that being said, I do believe if ArenaNet is going to give new players to HoT the entire first game for free they should compensate existing players with the same number of empty character slots added that new players are getting,. I think there should be something given to existing players to compensate. Because character slots and boosters all have monetary value in the on-line store they are going to be more strict about just giving these things away.

If you’re thinking of NOT upgrading, another thing to consider is something I pointed out in another thread. By default the GW2 client data file is going to be patched with all the HoT assets even if you decided not to buy the expansion. So based on available specs even if you don’t buy HoT you’ll be giving up 12-15 GB of hard drive devoted to it. As others have pointed out this is the industry norm. Until people start becoming really vocal about this it won’t change.

Galen Grey.4709:

Anet have the largest MMO development team I am aware of (short of WoW ofcourse). They also chucked out most free content in between expansion of any MMO I am aware off (including WoW) while developing their expansion. They also have a relatively long expansion development cycle. Will some players feel ripped off? sure! does that automatically mean they’re justified? No. You dont price things just to make people happy you also need to factor in your expenses and what return your investors are expecting. Keeping most of your players but loosing investor backing can be just as disastrous after all.

You need to find a balance because ultimately you cannot make everyone happy. If a player is willing to drop your game over $3.33 per year ($10 over 3 years) probably that player has much bigger issues with your game then price anyway. After all using wow as an example once again there are over 5m people who consistently don’t feel ripped off paying $15×24 + $40 = $400 per expansion cycle and that cylce is 33% shorter which makes it even worst. Does any of this mean that everyone should be happy with what Anet charges? No of course not, ultimately you’re right, it will be players who decide if the price is justified or not. That being said it is my opinion that this whole thing is being blown up way out of proportion.

Lol no. I know all the cool kids love to hate on WoW, but don’t straight-up lie. I don’t keep up with patch news anymore, but the seven years I played had tons of content patches in between the expansions. Just don’t. It’s an embarrassing claim to make.

It’s also disproportionate, given the amount of resources and the level of organization they had at that time, compared to what ANET has.

As much as I rail against the things I don’t like about ANET, I do appreciate that ANET has heart. I’m just not sure heart is enough to keep me playing, at this point. Either way, the price has been set.

When you go to buy GW2 HoT it says it also comes with the original game. Since I already have the original game can I gift it to a friend and keep the expansion?

No, there is only one key.
Either upgrade an existing account or create a new one.

Turamarth.3248:

No, there is only one key.
Either upgrade an existing account or create a new one.

Thanks

Guhracie.3419:

Galen Grey.4709:

Anet have the largest MMO development team I am aware of (short of WoW ofcourse). They also chucked out most free content in between expansion of any MMO I am aware off (including WoW) while developing their expansion. They also have a relatively long expansion development cycle. Will some players feel ripped off? sure! does that automatically mean they’re justified? No. You dont price things just to make people happy you also need to factor in your expenses and what return your investors are expecting. Keeping most of your players but loosing investor backing can be just as disastrous after all.

You need to find a balance because ultimately you cannot make everyone happy. If a player is willing to drop your game over $3.33 per year ($10 over 3 years) probably that player has much bigger issues with your game then price anyway. After all using wow as an example once again there are over 5m people who consistently don’t feel ripped off paying $15×24 + $40 = $400 per expansion cycle and that cylce is 33% shorter which makes it even worst. Does any of this mean that everyone should be happy with what Anet charges? No of course not, ultimately you’re right, it will be players who decide if the price is justified or not. That being said it is my opinion that this whole thing is being blown up way out of proportion.

Lol no. I know all the cool kids love to hate on WoW, but don’t straight-up lie. I don’t keep up with patch news anymore, but the seven years I played had tons of content patches in between the expansions. Just don’t. It’s an embarrassing claim to make.

It’s also disproportionate, given the amount of resources and the level of organization they had at that time, compared to what ANET has.

As much as I rail against the things I don’t like about ANET, I do appreciate that ANET has heart. I’m just not sure heart is enough to keep me playing, at this point. Either way, the price has been set.

First of All I am not hating on any MMO just to make that part clear. Secondly I didnt say only Anet release free content in between expansions, I said they released the most free content in between expansions. Even WoW with a budget order of magnitude larger then what Anet have doesnt even come close. Like between the previous and last Expansion according to WoW’s website (dont play it myself) they had 12 updates. Gw2 had 42 updates. Then there is the frequency of the updates themselves which until this year were at least 1 a month and for the most part 1 every 2 weeks. WoW is also not the only MMO around, many others dont even release any content at all in between their expansions or only a handful of releases.

Galen Grey.4709:

Guhracie.3419:

Galen Grey.4709:

Anet have the largest MMO development team I am aware of (short of WoW ofcourse). They also chucked out most free content in between expansion of any MMO I am aware off (including WoW) while developing their expansion. They also have a relatively long expansion development cycle. Will some players feel ripped off? sure! does that automatically mean they’re justified? No. You dont price things just to make people happy you also need to factor in your expenses and what return your investors are expecting. Keeping most of your players but loosing investor backing can be just as disastrous after all.

You need to find a balance because ultimately you cannot make everyone happy. If a player is willing to drop your game over $3.33 per year ($10 over 3 years) probably that player has much bigger issues with your game then price anyway. After all using wow as an example once again there are over 5m people who consistently don’t feel ripped off paying $15×24 + $40 = $400 per expansion cycle and that cylce is 33% shorter which makes it even worst. Does any of this mean that everyone should be happy with what Anet charges? No of course not, ultimately you’re right, it will be players who decide if the price is justified or not. That being said it is my opinion that this whole thing is being blown up way out of proportion.

Lol no. I know all the cool kids love to hate on WoW, but don’t straight-up lie. I don’t keep up with patch news anymore, but the seven years I played had tons of content patches in between the expansions. Just don’t. It’s an embarrassing claim to make.

It’s also disproportionate, given the amount of resources and the level of organization they had at that time, compared to what ANET has.

As much as I rail against the things I don’t like about ANET, I do appreciate that ANET has heart. I’m just not sure heart is enough to keep me playing, at this point. Either way, the price has been set.

First of All I am not hating on any MMO just to make that part clear. Secondly I didnt say only Anet release free content in between expansions, I said they released the most free content in between expansions. Even WoW with a budget order of magnitude larger then what Anet have doesnt even come close. Like between the previous and last Expansion according to WoW’s website (dont play it myself) they had 12 updates. Gw2 had 42 updates. Then there is the frequency of the updates themselves which until this year were at least 1 a month and for the most part 1 every 2 weeks. WoW is also not the only MMO around, many others dont even release any content at all in between their expansions or only a handful of releases.

Really? Read through the fewer updates for other AAA MMO’s and realize that these updates offer more content than all the 42 updates of GW2 together.

Higher frequency of updates doesn’t equal more content. Most of the Living Story Season 1 updates do not even qualify as a content update for most other MMOs.

Seriously, read through what WoW has added in the first three years of its existance and tell me that GW2 would not have to hide in shame compared to what was added back then. Look at LotRO and the updates between expansions.

Living Story updates are thin, sort of stretched, like butter scraped over too much bread. They were an excuse to promote gem store items.

It got a bit better with Season 2, but hey, we didn’t get many of these and the season is over since forever.

42 “content” updates, and adding so little, that is actually quite impressive.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Really? Read through the fewer updates for other AAA MMO’s and realize that these updates offer more content than all the 42 updates of GW2 together.

Higher frequency of updates doesn’t equal more content. Most of the Living Story Season 1 updates do not even qualify as a content update for most other MMOs.

Seriously, read through what WoW has added in the first three years of its existance and tell me that GW2 would not have to hide in shame compared to what was added back then. Look at LotRO and the updates between expansions.

Living Story updates are thin, sort of stretched, like butter scraped over too much bread. They were an excuse to promote gem store items.

It got a bit better with Season 2, but hey, we didn’t get many of these and the season is over since forever.

42 “content” updates, and adding so little, that is actually quite impressive.

Fine lets go through it (listing new content, ignoring fixes and features).
1 dungeon in 1.2.0
1 dungeon, 2 world bosses in 1.3.0
pvp honor system, 1 new arena, elemental invasion in 1.4.0
2x battle grounds in 1.5.0
1 raid and 1 holiday event in 1.6
1 raid, 1 battle ground and 1 event in 1.7
4x bosses, revamped zone in 1.8
2x instances in 1.9
1 raid in 1.11
new events in 2.0.3
1 raid + 1 arena in 2.1
2 holiday events in 2.2.2
and thats it 3 years source: wowwiki
Total 2 dungeons, 6 bosses, 4 raids, 2 instances, 3 events, 2 holiday events, 2 arenas, 3 battle grounds, 1 zone revamp, some new events.

Now Gw2.
For a release breakdown go here, too many to list
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Release

Totals:
5 holiday events (lunar new year not listed in the above link for some reason)
4 new dungeons
3 new world events
7 new jumping puzzles
2 new mini dungeons
4 new maps
13 new fractals
3 new pvp map
guild missions a bunch of them spread on 2 releases
2 releases of Super adventure box
8 new mini games
2 new world boss
5x new instances
1 world boss revamp
1 dungeon path revamp
3 map redesign
1 map revamp
Edge of the mists
many new dynamic events in multiple releases
38 story instances (Living story episodes and to be clear I didnt double count the dungeons like Molten facility and scarlet’s playhouse)

Not saying WoW had poor updates but how on earth can anyone conclude Gw2 updates are shameful. It clearly wins hands down on the amount of content it released in between expansions. I swear Anets content must have some really advanced cloaking technology.

Every single dungeon and every single raid added to WoW that you listed is bigger than all fractals and added dungeon pathes and mini dungeons added to GW2 together.

Ahn’Qiraj alone probably has the size of the Silverwastes…

Sure GW2 might win in numbers, but this is like saying I have ten times more 1 cent coins than you 100 dollar bills, so I have more money than you…

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Every single dungeon and every single raid added to WoW that you listed i bigger than all fractals and added dungeon pathes and mini dungeons added to GW2 together.s

Ahn’Qiraj alone probably has the size of the Silverwastes…

Sure GW2 might win in numbers, but this is like saying I have ten times more 1 cent coins than you 100 dollar bills, so I have more money than you…

I have no idea how big Ahn’Qiraj is but that being said i found this full run on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drGxkhfDNP8

Its 2hrs 50 minutes long I am also ignoring pauses in between while they set stuff up, like there is a whole 10 minute of standing still “doing nothing” at 1:09:00 and 10 minutes for photos at the end . .

And this is a full run of echoes of the past:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2lYEozZmSk

1hr 10 minutes. That doesnt include the 1/4 of silverwastes and the events there in released with the same update. I am sure that provided another hour of game play alone.

So no Ahn’Qiraj itself isnt as big as all 4 updates that unlocked the silverwastes its as big as 1 update from what I am seeing.

as for fractals, each fractal is about 30 mins long. which makes that raid you listed as long as approximately 5 fractals certainly not “bigger than all fractals and added dungeon pathes and mini dungeons added to GW2 together”

Galen Grey.4709:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Every single dungeon and every single raid added to WoW that you listed i bigger than all fractals and added dungeon pathes and mini dungeons added to GW2 together.s

Ahn’Qiraj alone probably has the size of the Silverwastes…

Sure GW2 might win in numbers, but this is like saying I have ten times more 1 cent coins than you 100 dollar bills, so I have more money than you…

I have no idea how big Ahn’Qiraj is but that being said i found this full run on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drGxkhfDNP8

Its 2hrs 50 minutes long I am also ignoring pauses in between while they set stuff up, like there is a whole 10 minute of standing still “doing nothing” at 1:09:00 and 10 minutes for photos at the end . .

And this is a full run of echoes of the past:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2lYEozZmSk

1hr 10 minutes. That doesnt include the 1/4 of silverwastes and the events there in released with the same update. I am sure that provided another hour of game play alone.

So no Ahn’Qiraj itself isnt as big as all 4 updates that unlocked the silverwastes its as big as 1 update from what I am seeing.

as for fractals, each fractal is about 30 mins long. which makes that raid you listed as long as approximately 5 fractals certainly not “bigger than all fractals and added dungeon pathes and mini dungeons added to GW2 together”

That’s only half of Ahn’Qiraj, you missed the “Ruins of Ahn’Qiraj” part…

And not even the most elite guilds ran it that fast when it was new and exciting. Who takes 30 min for a fractal anyway? Total beginners thrown into a 30+ fractal?

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Galen Grey.4709:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Every single dungeon and every single raid added to WoW that you listed i bigger than all fractals and added dungeon pathes and mini dungeons added to GW2 together.s

Ahn’Qiraj alone probably has the size of the Silverwastes…

Sure GW2 might win in numbers, but this is like saying I have ten times more 1 cent coins than you 100 dollar bills, so I have more money than you…

I have no idea how big Ahn’Qiraj is but that being said i found this full run on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drGxkhfDNP8

Its 2hrs 50 minutes long I am also ignoring pauses in between while they set stuff up, like there is a whole 10 minute of standing still “doing nothing” at 1:09:00 and 10 minutes for photos at the end . .

And this is a full run of echoes of the past:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2lYEozZmSk

1hr 10 minutes. That doesnt include the 1/4 of silverwastes and the events there in released with the same update. I am sure that provided another hour of game play alone.

So no Ahn’Qiraj itself isnt as big as all 4 updates that unlocked the silverwastes its as big as 1 update from what I am seeing.

as for fractals, each fractal is about 30 mins long. which makes that raid you listed as long as approximately 5 fractals certainly not “bigger than all fractals and added dungeon pathes and mini dungeons added to GW2 together”

That’s only half of Ahn’Qiraj, you missed the “Ruins of Ahn’Qiraj” part…

And not even the most elite guilds ran it that fast when it was new and exciting. Who takes 30 min for a fractal anyway? Total beginners thrown into a 30+ fractal?

Fine. But 1/2 of it ? Youtube disagrees… Ruins of Ahn’Qiraj seems to be 20 – 30 mins long based on a number of runs I saw on youtube.

Why do you really need to believe so hard that Gw2 barely released any content? Yes sure now top elite guilds can easily speed run fractals in far less then 30 mins. I assume elite top level guilds in WoW can run your raid in a fraction of the time now too. In fact no need to wonder.. here’s a solo guy running that nearly 3 hr long raid in 24 minutes flat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2yel8p2kFI

We’re talking content releases here, ie content that is level appropriate and that people dont yet know how the mecanics work so there is a learning curve + the short cuts are not yet know. Speed runs dont apply in this argument.

Galen Grey.4709:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Galen Grey.4709:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Every single dungeon and every single raid added to WoW that you listed i bigger than all fractals and added dungeon pathes and mini dungeons added to GW2 together.s

Ahn’Qiraj alone probably has the size of the Silverwastes…

Sure GW2 might win in numbers, but this is like saying I have ten times more 1 cent coins than you 100 dollar bills, so I have more money than you…

I have no idea how big Ahn’Qiraj is but that being said i found this full run on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drGxkhfDNP8

Its 2hrs 50 minutes long I am also ignoring pauses in between while they set stuff up, like there is a whole 10 minute of standing still “doing nothing” at 1:09:00 and 10 minutes for photos at the end . .

And this is a full run of echoes of the past:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2lYEozZmSk

1hr 10 minutes. That doesnt include the 1/4 of silverwastes and the events there in released with the same update. I am sure that provided another hour of game play alone.

So no Ahn’Qiraj itself isnt as big as all 4 updates that unlocked the silverwastes its as big as 1 update from what I am seeing.

as for fractals, each fractal is about 30 mins long. which makes that raid you listed as long as approximately 5 fractals certainly not “bigger than all fractals and added dungeon pathes and mini dungeons added to GW2 together”

That’s only half of Ahn’Qiraj, you missed the “Ruins of Ahn’Qiraj” part…

And not even the most elite guilds ran it that fast when it was new and exciting. Who takes 30 min for a fractal anyway? Total beginners thrown into a 30+ fractal?

Fine. But 1/2 of it ? Youtube disagrees… Ruins of Ahn’Qiraj seems to be 20 – 30 mins long based on a number of runs I saw on youtube.

Why do you really need to believe so hard that Gw2 barely released any content? Yes sure now top elite guilds can easily speed run fractals in far less then 30 mins. I assume elite top level guilds in WoW can run your raid in a fraction of the time now too. In fact no need to wonder.. here’s a solo guy running that nearly 3 hr long raid in 24 minutes flat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2yel8p2kFI

We’re talking content releases here, ie content that is level appropriate and that people dont yet know how the mecanics work so there is a learning curve + the short cuts are not yet know. Speed runs dont apply in this argument.

When they release fractals in November 2012, I ran four of them on level one in less than 45 minutes.

When they released AQ20 and AQ40, it took the best guilds weeks to beat all of it, and even on early farm, AQ40 took around 6 hours for an experienced raid groups.

And there was Naxxramas too, only shortly after AQ, as a player you got literally drowned in content, while in GW2, they just gave you enough to keep logging in ever two weeks to visit the gem store.

Not that I want to glorify WoW, as I got bored eventually and stopped playing, but in matters of real content released, GW2 should be hiding in the shades…

Kaiyanwan.8521:

When they release fractals in November 2012, I ran four of them on level one in less than 45 minutes.

When they released AQ20 and AQ40, it took the best guilds weeks to beat all of it, and even on early farm, AQ40 took around 6 hours for an experienced raid groups.

And there was Naxxramas too, only shortly after AQ, as a player you got literally drowned in content, while in GW2, they just gave you enough to keep logging in ever two weeks to visit the gem store.

Not that I want to glorify WoW, as I got bored eventually and stopped playing, but in matters of real content released, GW2 should be hiding in the shades…

even if most people doing fractals for the first time could complete 4 in 45 minutes (and i think on average thats definitely not the case) there are 14 different fractals so accounting for 11 minutes each thats 3hrs worth of content which is the same size as that raid you mention so it still wouldnt be true that the update you mention (which I guess is probably the largest one of the bunch) is “bigger than all fractals and added dungeon pathes and mini dungeons added to GW2 together”
and that means that certainlly your statement “Every single dungeon and every single raid added to WoW that you listed is bigger than all fractals and added dungeon pathes and mini dungeons added to GW2 together” isnt true.

at best based on this one example you could argue 1 single WoW update is more or less as big as 2 Gw2 updates but then again for every single update WoW releases Gw2 release an average of 3 – 6 in the same timeframe.

No argument that WoW raids are much more difficult than any content released by Gw2 perhaps with the exception of revamp tequalt and Wurm. But just cause a guild failed to finish a raid and then they’re forced to wait a week in order to try again after which it they may fail again and have to retry a few times it doesnt mean the content released is weeks long. If a successful run takes 3hrs to finish it means its 3 hrs worth of content.

Galen Grey.4709:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

When they release fractals in November 2012, I ran four of them on level one in less than 45 minutes.

When they released AQ20 and AQ40, it took the best guilds weeks to beat all of it, and even on early farm, AQ40 took around 6 hours for an experienced raid groups.

And there was Naxxramas too, only shortly after AQ, as a player you got literally drowned in content, while in GW2, they just gave you enough to keep logging in ever two weeks to visit the gem store.

Not that I want to glorify WoW, as I got bored eventually and stopped playing, but in matters of real content released, GW2 should be hiding in the shades…

even if most people doing fractals for the first time could complete 4 in 45 minutes (and i think on average thats definitely not the case) there are 14 different fractals so accounting for 11 minutes each thats 3hrs worth of content which is the same size as that raid you mention so it still wouldnt be true that the update you mention (which I guess is probably the largest one of the bunch) is “bigger than all fractals and added dungeon pathes and mini dungeons added to GW2 together”
and that means that certainlly your statement “Every single dungeon and every single raid added to WoW that you listed is bigger than all fractals and added dungeon pathes and mini dungeons added to GW2 together” isnt true.

at best based on this one example you could argue 1 single WoW update is more or less as big as 2 Gw2 updates but then again for every single update WoW releases Gw2 release an average of 3 – 6 in the same timeframe.

No argument that WoW raids are much more difficult than any content released by Gw2 perhaps with the exception of revamp tequalt and Wurm. But just cause a guild failed to finish a raid and then they’re forced to wait a week in order to try again after which it they may fail again and have to retry a few times it doesnt mean the content released is weeks long. If a successful run takes 3hrs to finish it means its 3 hrs worth of content.

Well you seem to have not been there back then when in WoW people complained about too much content in every update, because they were not done with the stuff from before.

Compared to the complains here, that people couldn’t do the content because it was gone before they had a chance to log in (holidays and stuff). Makes me smile. One could say there was too much content, but that would be sort of a stretch.

It doesn’t matter, GW2:HoT will be compared to other first paid expansions of premium titels. This includes WoW:TBC, LotRO:MoM and AoC:RotGS.
I liked them all for what they were, so I won’t be too picky. They were all cheaper but also part of a sub based game. No sub should never be an excuse for mediocre content though, so I will calculate the higher prize of HoT as sub fee.

Go through the expansions and what they offered, and you should get a good picture of what at least I am expecting. I would pay $50 if HoT would be close to one of these.

Galen Grey.4709:

Anet have the largest MMO development team I am aware of (short of WoW ofcourse). They also chucked out most free content in between expansion of any MMO I am aware off (including WoW) while developing their expansion. They also have a relatively long expansion development cycle. Will some players feel ripped off? sure! does that automatically mean they’re justified? No. You dont price things just to make people happy you also need to factor in your expenses and what return your investors are expecting. Keeping most of your players but loosing investor backing can be just as disastrous after all.

You need to find a balance because ultimately you cannot make everyone happy. If a player is willing to drop your game over $3.33 per year ($10 over 3 years) probably that player has much bigger issues with your game then price anyway. After all using wow as an example once again there are over 5m people who consistently don’t feel ripped off paying $15×24 + $40 = $400 per expansion cycle and that cylce is 33% shorter which makes it even worst. Does any of this mean that everyone should be happy with what Anet charges? No of course not, ultimately you’re right, it will be players who decide if the price is justified or not. That being said it is my opinion that this whole thing is being blown up way out of proportion.

its not just about quality, its about a complete experience.
a book is a complete story
mario was a complete experience
a song is a complete experience.

GW2 hot, as they have advertised it is an incomplete experience.

i replayed the initial guild wars a lot.
got every proffesion to 80, i did stretch goals like legendaries. nothing they have added to the game since has been a complete experience though.
Its all side stuff.

the expansion was supposed to be a complete experience, a real meal, instead it is looking like it is going to be another appetizer, then you wait 8 hours and get another appetizer, etc.

full price of a meal for an appetizer is a big problem.

also some things you said that i dont think will be accurate in the future:

• i dont think they will wait 3 years for the next expansion.
• the content they gave out wasnt free, anymore than an f2p content is free, it is paid for by the gem shop, which ultimately always comes down to providing things many people will want to pay for in order to continue to enjoy the game.
• The expansion development cycle probably isnt that long, much of the content coming in this expac was under development, but not as an expansion. Mastery system, came from precursors, which was going to be free, specialization a result of the skills/trait growth we were promised, the new zones are the ones required for mordremoth, which was supposedly planned since they came up with scarlet.(before they planned an expansion)

• you price your items whatever you want, but in reality a price that customers arent willing to pay is not profitable.

• is it being blown out of proportion? that depends on what anets plans and execution are. Many people are buying the expansion with the idea that it will provide another 3 years of entertainment, or at the least a complete experience. Much of what anet has implied suggests that it will provide neither.

The amount of people here who thinks “free” actually means “free” is overwhelming. There’s never such thing as free. Someone is always paying for it somewhere in time.

Ayrilana.1396:

sorudo.9054:

Ayrilana.1396:

minbariguy.7504:

Ayrilana.1396:

If a player is so hesitant to purchase an expansion with so much info made available to them, and would prefer to wait until they see reviews first, would you really consider them loyal?

If, in the end, the player actually ends up purchasing the product (and thereby financially supporting the company), then…yes?

Anyone who makes a repeat purchase from a company is showing customer loyalty.

That’s not what I’m saying. What you’re calling loyal is similar to someone who supports a sports team only when it’s performing well.

but that’s the thing, they don’t perform well, they perform overwhelmingly bad.
it’s as if you pay €50,- for a team that loses every single time, i am a loyal player but i know when to stop paying and to start showing concern.

Did Anet release as much information about Factions and Nightfall as they have for HoT? I seem to recall much less and yet people here complaining about HoT are praising GW1 releases. The primary complaint from people right now is the lack of information followed by price. The price being fairly similar to what was charged for the GW releases.

Factions and nightfall aren’t expansions. They were stand-alones that could be connected to your existing account. HoT is an expansion, which can only be compared with Eye of the North.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

The amount of people here who thinks “free” actually means “free” is overwhelming. There’s never such thing as free. Someone is always paying for it somewhere in time.

Ayrilana.1396:

sorudo.9054:

Ayrilana.1396:

minbariguy.7504:

Ayrilana.1396:

If a player is so hesitant to purchase an expansion with so much info made available to them, and would prefer to wait until they see reviews first, would you really consider them loyal?

If, in the end, the player actually ends up purchasing the product (and thereby financially supporting the company), then…yes?

Anyone who makes a repeat purchase from a company is showing customer loyalty.

That’s not what I’m saying. What you’re calling loyal is similar to someone who supports a sports team only when it’s performing well.

but that’s the thing, they don’t perform well, they perform overwhelmingly bad.
it’s as if you pay €50,- for a team that loses every single time, i am a loyal player but i know when to stop paying and to start showing concern.

Did Anet release as much information about Factions and Nightfall as they have for HoT? I seem to recall much less and yet people here complaining about HoT are praising GW1 releases. The primary complaint from people right now is the lack of information followed by price. The price being fairly similar to what was charged for the GW releases.

Factions and nightfall aren’t expansions. They were stand-alones that could be connected to your existing account. HoT is an expansion, which can only be compared with Eye of the North.

Did I ever say that they were expansions? The only difference between the two is one allows you to level up in while the other doesn’t. Take that out and they’re all the same. Whether they were standalone or not has nothing to do with my argument as well so I don’t see your point in bringing it up.

It’s free to the players who buy the expansion and apply it to a new account. Anet absorbs the cost in hopes of increased sales by new players to offset it.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Well you seem to have not been there back then when in WoW people complained about too much content in every update, because they were not done with the stuff from before.

I wasnt there for any of it like I already stated multiple times.

However lets be realistic here. WoW released an update every approx 3 months. Each update had in most cases 1 or 2 raids / dungeons

The one you presented could be completed in 3 hours. Now sure some guilds may have failed the run and had to wait a week to retry it again. Some weeks they may not have managed to get 40 people together to even try the run. Sure some people probably didnt manage to earn all the rewards from that dungeon/raid in the 3 months time period but does that really mean those updates were so huge they included 3 months worth of content?

I have people in my guild who are trying to get a full set of amberite weapons and coincidentally one of them celebrated earning their 7th weapon just yesterday. Myself who dont really farm only have 1 amberite weapon done so far. Does that mean the entanglement update included 1 year and 1 month – 3 days worth of content?

fact is if you didnt fail those raid and runs could be completed in less then 3 hours so the amount of content released was 3 hours. factoring in replay value and clever ways to extend content life time like raid locks isnt a correct assessment of amount of content released. Just like I said a single season 2 episode provided 1 hour of story content and bit more in terms of dynamic events and new map part unlocked. If you factored in trying to get all the achievements and earning all the rewards bundled in that release it would potentially go in the 100s of hours but I dont feel thats a proper assessement.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Compared to the complains here, that people couldn’t do the content because it was gone before they had a chance to log in (holidays and stuff). Makes me smile. One could say there was too much content, but that would be sort of a stretch.

The reason why people had that problem was because of the quick release cycle content had which in itself is indeed an issue of too much content being pumped out.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

It doesn’t matter, GW2:HoT will be compared to other first paid expansions of premium titels. This includes WoW:TBC, LotRO:MoM and AoC:RotGS.
I liked them all for what they were, so I won’t be too picky. They were all cheaper but also part of a sub based game. No sub should never be an excuse for mediocre content though, so I will calculate the higher prize of HoT as sub fee.

Those expansions were released a decade ago. How is that a fair comparison. If someone opens a new car manufacturing company do you expect their car to be priced like the first model released by current established car companies? “What you want me to pay $15,000 for this new car? this is your first model, Ford charged $825 for their first model thats how much you should sell your new car!” does that sound right to you? and besides doesnt your logic flow both ways? IE if you consider the $20 extra you’re paying as a form of subscription fee, which over 3 years it would be something like 50c a month btw. then wouldnt you consider the subscription you’d have paid with each one of those games part of the expansion price which would put the cost for the ones you mentioned to $420, $315, $390 respectively? No matter how you look at it you’re still getting a better deal price wise here.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Go through the expansions and what they offered, and you should get a good picture of what at least I am expecting. I would pay $50 if HoT would be close to one of these.

We cant have this discussion until HoT is fully revealed. That being said you also need to consider the work involved in creating content for each of them. Just look at the open world environment of each of them and what we’ve seen of HoT so far. The enviroments of those old expansion are much more simplistic and less detailed that when we have in HoT. Thats why I said its a bad idea to compare what we have today to what we had 8-10 years ago. Takes more people to create content for modern MMOs (more art assets, more detailed models, more elaborate texturing etc..) That in turn means it takes longer to do things and in turn that means it costs more to create.

Who can tell me , the price of full game starts from 49.99.
But i already got the original copy of GW2, and i only want to buy a DLC ( Heart of Thorns) Can i do it just this way, or i have to pay 49.99?

The cost of the expansion is $50, whether any bonus content is included or not. Thus, no, you can not buy a ‘DLC’.

For further reading, peruse the official thread found here on the forums. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-Price-Feedback-Base-game-included-merged

Good luck.

phys.7689:

its not just about quality, its about a complete experience.
a book is a complete story
mario was a complete experience
a song is a complete experience.

GW2 hot, as they have advertised it is an incomplete experience.

Well considering HoT is actually incompletely advertised this argument is premature because naturally something that hasnt been completely revealed will always feel incomplete.

phys.7689:

the expansion was supposed to be a complete experience, a real meal, instead it is looking like it is going to be another appetizer, then you wait 8 hours and get another appetizer, etc.

full price of a meal for an appetizer is a big problem.

How so? Do you not like how the personal story ends in HoT?

phys.7689:

also some things you said that i dont think will be accurate in the future:

• i dont think they will wait 3 years for the next expansion.

Still to early to tell. We have no idea how long they’ve been working on HoT and thus we have no idea how long it takes them to finish an expansion.

phys.7689:

• the content they gave out wasnt free, anymore than an f2p content is free, it is paid for by the gem shop, which ultimately always comes down to providing things many people will want to pay for in order to continue to enjoy the game.

Ohh come on, as long as you dont need to pay for the content itself, the content is free. If a bar has a live band and they’re not charging an entrance ticket to see the band you can argue the bar is charging you to see the band just cause they’re selling drinks. You’re free to get in watch the band perform from start to finish not buy a single thing and leave. How is that paid for content?

phys.7689:

• The expansion development cycle probably isnt that long, much of the content coming in this expac was under development, but not as an expansion. Mastery system, came from precursors, which was going to be free, specialization a result of the skills/trait growth we were promised, the new zones are the ones required for mordremoth, which was supposedly planned since they came up with scarlet.(before they planned an expansion)

I dont doubt that one bit but if they were working on the stuff since day one even if they originally intended to release it as part of the LS and then changed their mind it doesnt mean the next expansion will come earlier next time. If it took them 3 years to develop whatever they’re releasing in HoT unless next time they intend to do a smaller expansion they’ll still need 3 years to create the same amount of content.

Wrong Modremoth was planned since before GW2 released. That was said by colin when asked if the tutorial zone for the sylvari that has you fight the shadow of the dragon. If it was intential to have that the big boss at the end of Season 2 from the start or something they came up with later. Even without colin’s statement there are plenty of things that make it obvious modremoth was planed for since before release. We knew of 5 elder dragons yet Gw2 launched with a hinted 6th dragon in places like CoE or even outside in the infinity coil itself. Just to make it super obvious (in hindsight) Subject Alpha also has an ability called Teeth of Mordremoth!

phys.7689:

• you price your items whatever you want, but in reality a price that customers arent willing to pay is not profitable.

True but like I already said pricing your stuff to a level that makes your customers happy that may then result in losses or even not enough return will make your future even harder.

phys.7689:

• is it being blown out of proportion? that depends on what anets plans and execution are. Many people are buying the expansion with the idea that it will provide another 3 years of entertainment, or at the least a complete experience. Much of what anet has implied suggests that it will provide neither.

This is an MMO not a standalone game. I wouldnt say the core game provides 3 years of experience but with what Anet did with the continuous updates it certainly did and at least for me much better then any other MMO I have ever played. I always had something to do, always! In most other MMOs I always got to a point where it got to repeat this dungeon or these quests for a while now and that just doesnt work for me.

I am not sure what you mean by complete experience though, can you elaborate a bit on that?

avesatan.1760:

Who can tell me , the price of full game starts from 49.99.
But i already got the original copy of GW2, and i only want to buy a DLC ( Heart of Thorns) Can i do it just this way, or i have to pay 49.99?

We know that it is a nonsense..but if you buy the expansion you ll have the core game included…. So basicly you’ ll pay for a second time the core game. That’ s why many people are complaining and that’ s why many haven’ t bought the game right now.
On the other hand many don’ t care about their money and accept this.
It’ s up to you mate

Darkness.9732:

avesatan.1760:

Who can tell me , the price of full game starts from 49.99.
But i already got the original copy of GW2, and i only want to buy a DLC ( Heart of Thorns) Can i do it just this way, or i have to pay 49.99?

We know that it is a nonsense..but if you buy the expansion you ll have the core game included…. So basicly you’ ll pay for a second time the core game. That’ s why many people are complaining and that’ s why many haven’ t bought the game right now.
On the other hand many don’ t care about their money and accept this.
It’ s up to you mate

That’s like saying I bought a video tape, and then got a copy of the same tape for free in another promotion. You’re not paying for it. Saying so doesn’t make it so.

To put it in perspective, virtually every game goes down in price 3 years after it’s launched. Some of them sell for 3 bucks on steam. Guild Wars 2, the original game, sold for $10 bucks several times. So the very MOST you’d be paying again is $10 bucks.

But the reality is, they’re including it free for business reasons. The price of the expansion hasn’t been raised to include it. It would be interesting to see if you can prove that it has been, because frankly, Anet is doing the same thing many major MMOs are doing…removing a barrier to entry for new people.

You can say it’s not happening in other places, but that also wouldn’t be true.

what anet is doing is just like the thing the isp´s are doing if you already are a customer you always pay the full price but if you are a new customer you get some kind of discount ;-p

Vayne.8563:

Darkness.9732:

avesatan.1760:

Who can tell me , the price of full game starts from 49.99.
But i already got the original copy of GW2, and i only want to buy a DLC ( Heart of Thorns) Can i do it just this way, or i have to pay 49.99?

We know that it is a nonsense..but if you buy the expansion you ll have the core game included…. So basicly you’ ll pay for a second time the core game. That’ s why many people are complaining and that’ s why many haven’ t bought the game right now.
On the other hand many don’ t care about their money and accept this.
It’ s up to you mate

That’s like saying I bought a video tape, and then got a copy of the same tape for free in another promotion. You’re not paying for it. Saying so doesn’t make it so.

To put it in perspective, virtually every game goes down in price 3 years after it’s launched. Some of them sell for 3 bucks on steam. Guild Wars 2, the original game, sold for $10 bucks several times. So the very MOST you’d be paying again is $10 bucks.

But the reality is, they’re including it free for business reasons. The price of the expansion hasn’t been raised to include it. It would be interesting to see if you can prove that it has been, because frankly, Anet is doing the same thing many major MMOs are doing…removing a barrier to entry for new people.

You can say it’s not happening in other places, but that also wouldn’t be true.

Man. If you had the chance to read all the forums complaints on this subject then you would understand.
But you didn’ t it seems.
You are writing as a gw2 fanboy and as a white knight whereas I’ m writing as a customer. If I bought the game 50$ at launch why I should pay again for the CORE game?
You can try to justify their policy but you won’t convice me.
Moreover I’ ve noticed that many online sellers are making heavy discounts for Hot.
My explantion is that few people bought HOT for 50$. So they have been kinda forced to cut the price.
But of course you’ ll have a different opinion since you think as a fanboy and not as a customer.
Regards

I did read something about refund when you lately bought the game. Don´t know where and if this is still the case.

Darkness.9732:

Vayne.8563:

Darkness.9732:

avesatan.1760:

Who can tell me , the price of full game starts from 49.99.
But i already got the original copy of GW2, and i only want to buy a DLC ( Heart of Thorns) Can i do it just this way, or i have to pay 49.99?

We know that it is a nonsense..but if you buy the expansion you ll have the core game included…. So basicly you’ ll pay for a second time the core game. That’ s why many people are complaining and that’ s why many haven’ t bought the game right now.
On the other hand many don’ t care about their money and accept this.
It’ s up to you mate

That’s like saying I bought a video tape, and then got a copy of the same tape for free in another promotion. You’re not paying for it. Saying so doesn’t make it so.

To put it in perspective, virtually every game goes down in price 3 years after it’s launched. Some of them sell for 3 bucks on steam. Guild Wars 2, the original game, sold for $10 bucks several times. So the very MOST you’d be paying again is $10 bucks.

But the reality is, they’re including it free for business reasons. The price of the expansion hasn’t been raised to include it. It would be interesting to see if you can prove that it has been, because frankly, Anet is doing the same thing many major MMOs are doing…removing a barrier to entry for new people.

You can say it’s not happening in other places, but that also wouldn’t be true.

Man. If you had the chance to read all the forums complaints on this subject then you would understand.
But you didn’ t it seems.
You are writing as a gw2 fanboy and as a white knight whereas I’ m writing as a customer. If I bought the game 50$ at launch why I should pay again for the CORE game?
You can try to justify their policy but you won’t convice me.
Moreover I’ ve noticed that many online sellers are making heavy discounts for Hot.
My explantion is that few people bought HOT for 50$. So they have been kinda forced to cut the price.
But of course you’ ll have a different opinion since you think as a fanboy and not as a customer.
Regards

Yea I recently went back to wow when wod launched. I got the battlechest all expansions up to last one for the price of 30 day game time that was also included with the battle chest.

Noone moaned that I got the expansions for free compared to the people who bought it when they released.

Why some of us havent prepruchased yet is becouse we dont know enough information whats in hot some of us are waiting for the challenging group content reveal for example.

Wolfric.9380:

I did read something about refund when you lately bought the game. Don´t know where and if this is still the case.

it was only offered untill june 30

avesatan.1760:

Who can tell me , the price of full game starts from 49.99.
But i already got the original copy of GW2, and i only want to buy a DLC ( Heart of Thorns) Can i do it just this way, or i have to pay 49.99?

49.99 is the price of the expansion. The expansion also includes the core game for free
if you already have the core game and pre-purchase the game before release you will get a free character slot worth $10.

Anet could create a new bundle that includes just heart of thorns and no core game but it would still cost $49.99 cause that is what they’re charging for the expansion. The core game is just a free bonus just like the free character slot you get if you pre-purchase.

Assuming GW2 was worth $50 at launch. The game had 8 professions, 25 huge maps, 19 weapons, hundreds of skills, rather long story, 9 dungeons…

HoT has 1 new profession, 4 maps, no new weapons but every profession will have access to one more weapon (or off hand), quite a bit shorter story, no new dungeons?, quite a bit shorter story… How is that worth $40 then? Can’t be inflation, since the GW2 is now worth $10, the price of a character slot.

Tbh, I think we’re being ripped off. Still, I shelled some $100 on the ultimate edition. I’m a bit miffed, but hopefully that will pass.

Galen Grey.4709:

avesatan.1760:

Who can tell me , the price of full game starts from 49.99.
But i already got the original copy of GW2, and i only want to buy a DLC ( Heart of Thorns) Can i do it just this way, or i have to pay 49.99?

49.99 is the price of the expansion. The expansion also includes the core game for free
if you already have the core game and pre-purchase the game before release you will get a free character slot worth $10.

Anet could create a new bundle that includes just heart of thorns and no core game but it would still cost $49.99 cause that is what they’re charging for the expansion. The core game is just a free bonus just like the free character slot you get if you pre-purchase.

I think it’d be more accurate to say that, the price of the expansion is $39.99, but you can only buy it bundled with the core game, which costs $10. If you already had the core game, they’ll bundle in a character slot instead.

I think alot of people are not thinking in the same way the marketing team does. Many major MMO’s nowadays include all previous expansions into a package. Game of the Year editions use a similar strategy, except those tend to keep the DLC/expansions available seperately aswell, but buying all of the DLC would then cost more than just buying the game of the year edition. The expansion would have been 50 dollars no matter what, but to make sure new players don’t have to pay even more on top of it which would deter them from trying the game, they add the base in.

Players who already paid 50 dollars or whatever currency for the base game have essentially paid to play the game for all this time, enjoy the temporary content that new players won’t see and so on. Games drop their prices over time because that ‘get access to it early’ wears off as a game becomes older. To keep selling the game they lower the price more and more as time progresses. The reason this can be done is because it’s not like you are buying a piece of furniture where wood has a somewhat stable price and the demand remains somewhat stable. A game is digital, once it’s made it doesn’t cost much to sell additional copies. Just be happy we might get more new players because everything is packaged together. An online game without a stream of new players will eventually die.

And on as a final note, yes this will be the highest price I’ve ever paid for an expansion when I do buy it. So I agree that it is a bit steep, but I have played many other MMO’s that had huge ‘pay or grind forever’ elements to it or a subscription fee, so I don’t think they are being completely unreasonable regarding the price. However, I can’t make a full judgment untill release as the exact amount of content is still unknown.

Fred Fargone.3127:

Assuming GW2 was worth $50 at launch. The game had 8 professions, 25 huge maps, 19 weapons, hundreds of skills, rather long story, 9 dungeons…

Since release, they have added 9 additional maps. They have also released two Living World story seasons free of charge if you logged in for them and included additional events like the Karka invasion, SAB, holiday events, etc.

Fred Fargone.3127:

HoT has 1 new profession,

And an additional traitline, 4 utility skills, 1 heal, 1 elite, 1 new F# mechanic for the remaining 8 classes

Fred Fargone.3127:

4 maps,

Speculated through datamining, with unknown levels of size, some with and some without the 3-tiered verticality, and only at release. This is ignoring anything they might release further down the road.

Fred Fargone.3127:

no new weapons but every profession will have access to one more weapon (or off hand),

See above for everything else you missed about that.

Fred Fargone.3127:

quite a bit shorter story,

You have no idea about the length of the story, as we all don’t know. I wouldn’t suggest using this as a reasoned argument point unless you actually know the story length.

Fred Fargone.3127:

no new dungeons?, quite a bit shorter story…

No dungeons is potentially an issue, but we will see after PAX Prime (I think that’s the name?) on August 29th what the Challenging Group Content is supposed to be. From what I’ve gathered, this was what they wanted the game to be more like from the beginning, but we have no idea what it will actually be. Also, don’t forget about the Mastery system, legendary pre-cursor crafting including crafting for all of the existing legendaries as well as new legendary weapons.

Fred Fargone.3127:

How is that worth $40 then? Can’t be inflation, since the GW2 is now worth $10, the price of a character slot.

Tbh, I think we’re being ripped off. Still, I shelled some $100 on the ultimate edition. I’m a bit miffed, but hopefully that will pass.

You still bought it any way, so you must not have thought it was much of a rip-off after all. Would I have been happier with it being $40 instead of $50? Yes, but I would have loved it to be free even though that’s not possible. I still also bought the expansion. If they screw this one up though (this being GW2’s first expansion), they will have to really impress a lot of people with the next one or else they will lose a lot of old players.

Darkness.9732:

Vayne.8563:

Darkness.9732:

avesatan.1760:

Who can tell me , the price of full game starts from 49.99.
But i already got the original copy of GW2, and i only want to buy a DLC ( Heart of Thorns) Can i do it just this way, or i have to pay 49.99?

We know that it is a nonsense..but if you buy the expansion you ll have the core game included…. So basicly you’ ll pay for a second time the core game. That’ s why many people are complaining and that’ s why many haven’ t bought the game right now.
On the other hand many don’ t care about their money and accept this.
It’ s up to you mate

That’s like saying I bought a video tape, and then got a copy of the same tape for free in another promotion. You’re not paying for it. Saying so doesn’t make it so.

To put it in perspective, virtually every game goes down in price 3 years after it’s launched. Some of them sell for 3 bucks on steam. Guild Wars 2, the original game, sold for $10 bucks several times. So the very MOST you’d be paying again is $10 bucks.

But the reality is, they’re including it free for business reasons. The price of the expansion hasn’t been raised to include it. It would be interesting to see if you can prove that it has been, because frankly, Anet is doing the same thing many major MMOs are doing…removing a barrier to entry for new people.

You can say it’s not happening in other places, but that also wouldn’t be true.

Man. If you had the chance to read all the forums complaints on this subject then you would understand.
But you didn’ t it seems.
You are writing as a gw2 fanboy and as a white knight whereas I’ m writing as a customer. If I bought the game 50$ at launch why I should pay again for the CORE game?
You can try to justify their policy but you won’t convice me.
Moreover I’ ve noticed that many online sellers are making heavy discounts for Hot.
My explantion is that few people bought HOT for 50$. So they have been kinda forced to cut the price.
But of course you’ ll have a different opinion since you think as a fanboy and not as a customer.
Regards

Dear person who thinks I don’t get it. I get it. 90% of the forum complaints were from when Anet wasn’t giving a free character slot to vets, or did you miss that part.

The fact is, there aren’t that many complaints by comparison. A couple a day, if that? When there’s a problem on these forums, you hear it. This fan base is not shy.

And it’s FACT that WoW is giving away expansions when you buy the current one,. EQ is giving away expansions when you buy the current one. What facts do you have exactly? Your opinion.

Okay. You’re entitled to your opinion. But my opinion is backed up by what’s going on in the industry.

“For all players who purchased the Guild Wars 2 core game from our website and registered it between January 23, 2015 and June 16, 2015 in anticipation of Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns, we will automatically refund what you paid for the core game should you decide to pre-purchase Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns from our website or in-game store any time through July 31, 2015. "

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/pre-purchase-community-address/

Fred Fargone.3127:

Galen Grey.4709:

avesatan.1760:

Who can tell me , the price of full game starts from 49.99.
But i already got the original copy of GW2, and i only want to buy a DLC ( Heart of Thorns) Can i do it just this way, or i have to pay 49.99?

49.99 is the price of the expansion. The expansion also includes the core game for free
if you already have the core game and pre-purchase the game before release you will get a free character slot worth $10.

Anet could create a new bundle that includes just heart of thorns and no core game but it would still cost $49.99 cause that is what they’re charging for the expansion. The core game is just a free bonus just like the free character slot you get if you pre-purchase.

I think it’d be more accurate to say that, the price of the expansion is $39.99, but you can only buy it bundled with the core game, which costs $10. If you already had the core game, they’ll bundle in a character slot instead.

Based on what facts would it be more accurate?