Guild Wars 2

As a person that has been playing GW2 since launch, I highly disagree with the notion that HoT was “half done” when Anet released it. HoT brought into the game enough content worthy to have been called a full expansion. This said, here are three reasons why I think players are hating on the HoT expansion at the current time.

1. Raiding was not available at launch. I don’t think it would be a good idea to delay the entire expansion one month to have this bundled in with HoT at launch, but it is one of the core new game systems that really should have been ready to play.

2. Some of the content that was included in the expansion was simply not enjoyable to play. One example of this is the new WvW BL maps. Those new maps look like they took a lot of resources to complete, but the end product was not enjoyed by the WvW community. You can write an entire thread dedicated to why this is, technically is it much better than the old alpine map, yet it alienated the WvW community. Another example is the Dragons Stand map. An entire map dedicated to giving the community the elder dragon fight that wasn’t there with the Zhaitan fight. The last fight is awesome and really makes you feel in an epic encounter, but using an entire zone to get to that section makes the map one of the lease played for me personally.

3. This is the most important point of the three, the frequent content patches people enjoyed after the original GW2 launch simply hasn’t happened. HoT has been out for months now, why hasn’t the next phase of the living story started yet? I personally love doing it, and I’m sure other do as well. In fact, apart from balance patches and the raid encounter I already spoke about, there hasn’t been much new content added to the game. I understand that Anet split their resources 50/50 with live content and expansion work, but where is the live content?

Those are my three points on why people think HoT is lacking content, its not. The problem is the content that is there, some of it people do not enjoy doing, and this is a learning experience Anet need to take away from HoT. Also, the lack of content updates to HoT means people have been, for the last 6 months, been playing the same expansion content over and over. There was enough content in HoT to entertain players for a period of time until updates would carry the baton further. The problem at the moment is the content patches are not there and HoT is still holding the baton and is getting tired.

Elias.4028:

As a person that has been playing GW2 since launch, I highly disagree with the notion that HoT was “half done” when Anet released it. HoT brought into the game enough content worthy to have been called a full expansion. This said, here are three reasons why I think players are hating on the HoT expansion at the current time.

1. Raiding was not available at launch. I don’t think it would be a good idea to delay the entire expansion one month to have this bundled in with HoT at launch, but it is one of the core new game systems that really should have been ready to play.

2. Some of the content that was included in the expansion was simply not enjoyable to play. One example of this is the new WvW BL maps. Those new maps look like they took a lot of resources to complete, but the end product was not enjoyed by the WvW community. You can write an entire thread dedicated to why this is, technically is it much better than the old alpine map, yet it alienated the WvW community. Another example is the Dragons Stand map. An entire map dedicated to giving the community the elder dragon fight that wasn’t there with the Zhaitan fight. The last fight is awesome and really makes you feel in an epic encounter, but using an entire zone to get to that section makes the map one of the lease played for me personally.

3. This is the most important point of the three, the frequent content patches people enjoyed after the original GW2 launch simply hasn’t happened. HoT has been out for months now, why hasn’t the next phase of the living story started yet? I personally love doing it, and I’m sure other do as well. In fact, apart from balance patches and the raid encounter I already spoke about, there hasn’t been much new content added to the game. I understand that Anet split their resources 50/50 with live content and expansion work, but where is the live content?

Those are my three points on why people think HoT is lacking content, its not. The problem is the content that is there, some of it people do not enjoy doing, and this is a learning experience Anet need to take away from HoT. Also, the lack of content updates to HoT means people have been, for the last 6 months, been playing the same expansion content over and over. There was enough content in HoT to entertain players for a period of time until updates would carry the baton further. The problem at the moment is the content patches are not there and HoT is still holding the baton and is getting tired.

you mention the expansion being delayed a month for the raid. five months later, the advertised legendary(rumor: no special effects on it) armor still cannot be obtained because the raid is still not finished. not that I ever cared about obtaining something with no practical significance (save for frostfang, i enjoy that.), i’m not about to wait another five months for however many raid wings there will be.

Elias.4028:

1. Raiding was not available at launch. I don’t think it would be a good idea to delay the entire expansion one month to have this bundled in with HoT at launch, but it is one of the core new game systems that really should have been ready to play.

I think it could have been ready but they delayed it to give people a grace period to earn the masteries needed. Try fighting Gorseval without gliding/updrafts … (at a guess. I have not seen that boss. Could be doable without?). At least they did state that as a reason at the time.

Donari.5237:

Elias.4028:

1. Raiding was not available at launch. I don’t think it would be a good idea to delay the entire expansion one month to have this bundled in with HoT at launch, but it is one of the core new game systems that really should have been ready to play.

I think it could have been ready but they delayed it to give people a grace period to earn the masteries needed. Try fighting Gorseval without gliding/updrafts … (at a guess. I have not seen that boss. Could be doable without?). At least they did state that as a reason at the time.

I believe one of the biggest reasons for the Raid delay was that the final beta, with access to raiding, had near-disastrously game breaking bugs with the squad interface which is required for raids. they had to turn it off, and raiding, within hours of the start of the beta test and I dont believe it got turned on before the beta ended. as such there was obviously some major unexpected issues that needed to be fixed to be able to release the raids, and as such it was delayed more than intended from the HoT release schedule.

I’m definitely a one for quality over quantity. (So point no.2 really gets to me)

I don’t really care about a content stream as long as the content that comes out is quality, barring extreme scenarios like years without releases.

I agree with your points, but even considering all of them, HoT was a little light. Points 1 and 2, most people could not care less about. The most important of those things was point 3, if they HAD hit the ground running with living world, adding new MAPS to the game within a few months of launch, then people might have gotten the idea that “what launched was not worthy of an expansion, but you’ll definitely get a worthwhile amount over the course of it,” but that didn’t happen.

Having three maps and one boss fight instance do NOT account for a full $50 expansion.

I think it could have been ready but they delayed it to give people a grace period to earn the masteries needed. Try fighting Gorseval without gliding/updrafts … (at a guess. I have not seen that boss. Could be doable without?). At least they did state that as a reason at the time.

I can’t imagine that was a part of it. For one, gliding isn’t necessary until Gorseval, and he was added like a month after VG. Two, getting updraft mastery only took like a few days or less, and any players even remotely ready to enter a raid would be able to knock that out without breaking a sweat. It’s not like it required Leyline Gliding or anything.

Elias.4028:

Those are my three points on why people think HoT is lacking content, its not.

Isn’t telling other people what they think a little presumptuous?

Perhaps they think it is lacking content because, in their opinion, it is lacking content.

The opening post might as well try to tell people why someone is objectively beautiful. I’m one of those players who thinks HoT did not have $50 worth of content. HoT chiefly implemented new systems with some bare bones, heavily gated and stretched out content to test them and provide busy work. And with Anet’s history of unceremoniously dumping implementations for new shinier ones, HoT focusing on this means diddly to me. As a customer, I want content and I want it working properly. Thats all. I can’t play your future proofing and promises. It’s not content. I can’t put it any plainer.

Content is too thin since release of GW2, really. Other companies manage to release more meat, far more. I think the development process of Anet is just extremely long and complex. Otherwise I can’t imagine who they manage to release so few maps, no new dungeons, no single new fractals, put legendaries on hold etc. It’s just not there. I love this game and I hope they will do better with the next expansion. That said, I had a lot of fun playing HOT. Quality wise it was great. Verdant Brink or Tangled Depths were ingeniously crafted and imo one of the most complex maps I have ever seen in an MMO. Absolutely stunning!

For me, HoT is definitely lacking enjoyable content. I have some hope that the forthcoming changes may change that to some extent.

I have only one question: do you think this “expansion” had enough content to justify that pricetag?

A lot of people are mad about having paid this ridiculous amount of money for an expansion where a lot of content was promised, but wasn’t delivered, and some of it is being scrapped. Kinda hard to justify that.

To be honest we are extremely spoiled today. 50€ is really not that much. I already played my good 500h in HoT and if you break it down it’s a really good gain.

I remember when I had a super nintendo and wanted to buy Super Probotector (Super Contra in the US) and it cost about 120€. This game was about 40min long.

People are spoiled by the sheer amount of freemium MMOs scattered around the internet which you can play for free. I want all of you to remind you that it takes huge amount of effort and time to create content – especially for a company like Anet who obviously invest a lot of time in different iterations (which slows their content progress though).

Here are 3 reasons why the expansion is half done:

1. NO LEGENDARY WEAPONS

2. NO LEGENDARY WEAPONS

3, NO LEGENDARY WEAPONS

/thread, have a nice day

Elias.4028:

As a person that has been playing GW2 since launch, I highly disagree with the notion that HoT was “half done” when Anet released it. HoT brought into the game enough content worthy to have been called a full expansion. This said, here are three reasons why I think players are hating on the HoT expansion at the current time.

1. Raiding was not available at launch. I don’t think it would be a good idea to delay the entire expansion one month to have this bundled in with HoT at launch, but it is one of the core new game systems that really should have been ready to play.

2. Some of the content that was included in the expansion was simply not enjoyable to play. One example of this is the new WvW BL maps. Those new maps look like they took a lot of resources to complete, but the end product was not enjoyed by the WvW community. You can write an entire thread dedicated to why this is, technically is it much better than the old alpine map, yet it alienated the WvW community. Another example is the Dragons Stand map. An entire map dedicated to giving the community the elder dragon fight that wasn’t there with the Zhaitan fight. The last fight is awesome and really makes you feel in an epic encounter, but using an entire zone to get to that section makes the map one of the lease played for me personally.

3. This is the most important point of the three, the frequent content patches people enjoyed after the original GW2 launch simply hasn’t happened. HoT has been out for months now, why hasn’t the next phase of the living story started yet? I personally love doing it, and I’m sure other do as well. In fact, apart from balance patches and the raid encounter I already spoke about, there hasn’t been much new content added to the game. I understand that Anet split their resources 50/50 with live content and expansion work, but where is the live content?

Those are my three points on why people think HoT is lacking content, its not. The problem is the content that is there, some of it people do not enjoy doing, and this is a learning experience Anet need to take away from HoT. Also, the lack of content updates to HoT means people have been, for the last 6 months, been playing the same expansion content over and over. There was enough content in HoT to entertain players for a period of time until updates would carry the baton further. The problem at the moment is the content patches are not there and HoT is still holding the baton and is getting tired.

Look its fine to like the game, alot of people having been playing this game since original closed beta.. but what I wont accept is blind fandom. I also want to note, that you are also only listing the items you ‘think’ are what are peoples disappointment – based on your already rose coloured perspective.

Anyone, who has had a lot of experience with different MMO’s and subsequent expansions from said game and company can openly critique and justify why HoT was not worth its price tag (and also how months after, content was not fully fleshed out, rushed or now cancelled). In fact, it caused many players I know to full stop quit the game entirely (so in many cases, it was actually damaging to the larger game).

Its fine to be a fan of the series and of the company, I am also a fan, but its important to open your eyes and understand what HAS actually happened. Also when stating you ‘highly disagree’ you should of provided in full detail – WHY this is the case and why hundreds of valid arguments against your point of view are in-valid.

There is not hundreds of valid arguments, there is a general outcry that says the content in HoT was under-delivered, and if you read my post I said they are right. The new WvW BL map alienated a large part of that community. No attention to dungeons and fractals alienated the casual PvE crowed. I do not raid so I don’t know if the more hardcore PvE community is satisfied with the raiding because I am not apart of that community. The Spvp players are satisfied from what I understand.

Is the expansion worth the money? For me personally it would be a yes. But i a not a hardcore gamer, I do not play for days at a time. For the people that do I can understand the outcry. And like I said before, Anet is not delivering their live updates at all, and for this much time to pass without at least starting the next chapter of the living story is really hard to justify.

ProtoGunner.4953:

Content is too thin since release of GW2, really. Other companies manage to release more meat, far more. I think the development process of Anet is just extremely long and complex. Otherwise I can’t imagine who they manage to release so few maps, no new dungeons, no single new fractals, put legendaries on hold etc. It’s just not there. I love this game and I hope they will do better with the next expansion. That said, I had a lot of fun playing HOT. Quality wise it was great. Verdant Brink or Tangled Depths were ingeniously crafted and imo one of the most complex maps I have ever seen in an MMO. Absolutely stunning!

The reason why they release so few maps is because DEs take longer to design than static quests. Static quests in most games don’t scale and don’t really interact with each other. DEs do.

Also static quests can easily be calculated so that you know exactly how much experience you need. As an example, Guild Wars 1 Prophecies had 203 static quests. Guild Wars 2 launched with over 1500 dynamic events.

The thing is, you need a LOT more dynamic events because there are no quest hubs. It’s not like people are guaranteed content, until you have so much content they can’t miss running into something.

Traditional quest systems don’t suffer from that.

No one should have bought HoT thinking it was ‘done’. That’s not even the nature of most MMO expansions. They get tweaked, bugfixed, adjusted, added to … lots of time.

It’s pretty hard to compare almost anything Anet does to other MMO’s because GW2 does quite a few things off the beaten path. I get the feeling that Anet goes out of their way to deliver not-typical game mechanics and features.

i think i payed $50 to have less fun.

Nothing was added that I care about (pve maps and raids). Stuff was taken away that i did care about (working wvw map; guild upgrades) and content was forced with pve grind to be competitive in any part of the game. So, not only was wvw less fun, i was forced to do pve to play it.

Based on this concept I have come up with a business proposal. I will come and screw up peoples lives for a small fee…. let’s say $49.99. Then I will provide a means where they can publicly criticize my service and charges. Then I will ignore them for 5 and 1/2 months only communicating on other platforms with no real insight into how I will make their lives better.

So, why does the pink elephant in the room stick out? Is it because it is huge, is it because its pink, or is it because it is actually in a room? Debating 3 obvious factors never makes it any more clear. Yet the elephant will persist, it will still be pink, and it is still in the room.

Back to original subject. I bought an idea, not a product. The idea was meant to appease the masses while quelling a silent rebellion and decreasing attrition. The magnitude of the idea was worth an expac fee. The product unfortunately was not. End of story.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Here are 3 reasons why the expansion is half done:

1. NO LEGENDARY WEAPONS

2. NO LEGENDARY WEAPONS

3, NO LEGENDARY WEAPONS

/thread, have a nice day

We have 3 new legendary weapons. It’s not no and we also get one additional. So in other words, about 25% of the Legendary weapons we got.

Vayne.8563:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Content is too thin since release of GW2, really. Other companies manage to release more meat, far more. I think the development process of Anet is just extremely long and complex. Otherwise I can’t imagine who they manage to release so few maps, no new dungeons, no single new fractals, put legendaries on hold etc. It’s just not there. I love this game and I hope they will do better with the next expansion. That said, I had a lot of fun playing HOT. Quality wise it was great. Verdant Brink or Tangled Depths were ingeniously crafted and imo one of the most complex maps I have ever seen in an MMO. Absolutely stunning!

The reason why they release so few maps is because DEs take longer to design than static quests. Static quests in most games don’t scale and don’t really interact with each other. DEs do.

Also static quests can easily be calculated so that you know exactly how much experience you need. As an example, Guild Wars 1 Prophecies had 203 static quests. Guild Wars 2 launched with over 1500 dynamic events.

The thing is, you need a LOT more dynamic events because there are no quest hubs. It’s not like people are guaranteed content, until you have so much content they can’t miss running into something.

Traditional quest systems don’t suffer from that.

That said, sure you are right. Those maps are rather complex, especially compared to most other maps. But why not just ad ‘normal’ maps? Why only such huge meta event maps? People already complained about it. I like those maps, but sometimes you just want to hop in, play 30mins and do some random events à la Central Tyria.

ProtoGunner.4953:

Vayne.8563:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Content is too thin since release of GW2, really. Other companies manage to release more meat, far more. I think the development process of Anet is just extremely long and complex. Otherwise I can’t imagine who they manage to release so few maps, no new dungeons, no single new fractals, put legendaries on hold etc. It’s just not there. I love this game and I hope they will do better with the next expansion. That said, I had a lot of fun playing HOT. Quality wise it was great. Verdant Brink or Tangled Depths were ingeniously crafted and imo one of the most complex maps I have ever seen in an MMO. Absolutely stunning!

The reason why they release so few maps is because DEs take longer to design than static quests. Static quests in most games don’t scale and don’t really interact with each other. DEs do.

Also static quests can easily be calculated so that you know exactly how much experience you need. As an example, Guild Wars 1 Prophecies had 203 static quests. Guild Wars 2 launched with over 1500 dynamic events.

The thing is, you need a LOT more dynamic events because there are no quest hubs. It’s not like people are guaranteed content, until you have so much content they can’t miss running into something.

Traditional quest systems don’t suffer from that.

That said, sure you are right. Those maps are rather complex, especially compared to most other maps. But why not just ad ‘normal’ maps? Why only such huge meta event maps? People already complained about it. I like those maps, but sometimes you just want to hop in, play 30mins and do some random events à la Central Tyria.

Even the normal maps in Guild Wars 2 are this way. Anet spoke about it during the prelaunch of Guld Wars 2. It takes a lot more work to make a Guild Wars 2 map than it does to make a map in a standard MMO because there are no standard quests which are a) easier to design and b) require more by number. I believe I remember Anet saying it requires three times the number of events over what it would if they’d gone with traditional questing.

Well tbh people were telling over and over and over again before launch of expansion that its not worth the price, that it will have very little content, very few maps etc. Those same people were called fools for judging the expansion before it came out (even though all info was there). Is amazing how those who bought game were hoping to get more than was announced, such an amusing blind faith in anet. Personally am glad i dodged the bullet called heart of thorns. Maybe when they will discount it to 5-10$ which is about as much as its worth i will pick it up, but thats a maybe.

Lucyfer.9517:

Well tbh people were telling over and over and over again before launch of expansion that its not worth the price, that it will have very little content, very few maps etc. Those same people were called fools for judging the expansion before it came out (even though all info was there). Is amazing how those who bought game were hoping to get more than was announced, such an amusing blind faith in anet. Personally am glad i dodged the bullet called heart of thorns. Maybe when they will discount it to 5-10$ which is about as much as its worth i will pick it up, but thats a maybe.

But that’s the funny part. There are plenty of people who knew what they were getting and still feel it was worth the price. Every time there’s a thread is hot worth it, there are almost as many people who feel it was as feel it wasn’t.

The real issue is when people compare it to the value of the core game, which was phenomenal.

But I’ve already gotten a couple of hundred hours out of HoT so it was well worth my money.

Vayne.8563:

Lucyfer.9517:

Well tbh people were telling over and over and over again before launch of expansion that its not worth the price, that it will have very little content, very few maps etc. Those same people were called fools for judging the expansion before it came out (even though all info was there). Is amazing how those who bought game were hoping to get more than was announced, such an amusing blind faith in anet. Personally am glad i dodged the bullet called heart of thorns. Maybe when they will discount it to 5-10$ which is about as much as its worth i will pick it up, but thats a maybe.

But that’s the funny part. There are plenty of people who knew what they were getting and still feel it was worth the price. Every time there’s a thread is hot worth it, there are almost as many people who feel it was as feel it wasn’t.

The real issue is when people compare it to the value of the core game, which was phenomenal.

But I’ve already gotten a couple of hundred hours out of HoT so it was well worth my money.

I feel like HoT could be worth what I paid for it, with a few tweaks. Some seemingly small but necessary, complicated tweaks.

Heh, it’s funny, since SAB converted a friend of mine from core to expansion, I have a little protege to lead around, so hopefully that will finally get me into some of the newer content.

Rauderi.8706:

Vayne.8563:

Lucyfer.9517:

Well tbh people were telling over and over and over again before launch of expansion that its not worth the price, that it will have very little content, very few maps etc. Those same people were called fools for judging the expansion before it came out (even though all info was there). Is amazing how those who bought game were hoping to get more than was announced, such an amusing blind faith in anet. Personally am glad i dodged the bullet called heart of thorns. Maybe when they will discount it to 5-10$ which is about as much as its worth i will pick it up, but thats a maybe.

But that’s the funny part. There are plenty of people who knew what they were getting and still feel it was worth the price. Every time there’s a thread is hot worth it, there are almost as many people who feel it was as feel it wasn’t.

The real issue is when people compare it to the value of the core game, which was phenomenal.

But I’ve already gotten a couple of hundred hours out of HoT so it was well worth my money.

I feel like HoT could be worth what I paid for it, with a few tweaks. Some seemingly small but necessary, complicated tweaks.

Heh, it’s funny, since SAB converted a friend of mine from core to expansion, I have a little protege to lead around, so hopefully that will finally get me into some of the newer content.

It’ll probably be more worth it when the Living Story Season 3 begins and maybe with the new patch this month as well. I’m really looking forward to seeing what they’re doing with HoT. Making it less grindy will not hurt.

I already said that somewhere else but to me, the expansion is not half done but rather “rushed”. From story to Espec balance to economics balancing (scribing, Fractals for example) everything feels not polished for me.
It is really clear that they wanted the expansion to be out in 2015 but their famous high expectations on polish was not met in that case.
The last drama with legendary is also a perfect example. They have done a good way of precursors acquisitions, and even made 23 of them. Well 20 +3 to be released til people know where to find the needed content. But then they (I think) hurt the inspiration drought wall.
Knowing how Anet is with information they shouldn’t have talked about the new Legendary weapons, just introduce the precursor scavenger hunt (that is already more than the half of the work for this feature). Then they could have released one or two or even wait till they have 4 new ones as “surprises” and when people would have started to ask when the next one would be coming …. “when they will be ready, for now enjoy those”.
I read with joy that 70 people are actually working on the next expac because I do think they will go back to their standard and just release it when it will reach the quality they want to reach.

Ranael.6423:

I already said that somewhere else but to me, the expansion is not half done but rather “rushed”. From story to Espec balance to economics balancing (scribing, Fractals for example) everything feels not polished for me.
It is really clear that they wanted the expansion to be out in 2015 but their famous high expectations on polish was not met in that case.
The last drama with legendary is also a perfect example. They have done a good way of precursors acquisitions, and even made 23 of them. Well 20 +3 to be released til people know where to find the needed content. But then they (I think) hurt the inspiration drought wall.
Knowing how Anet is with information they shouldn’t have talked about the new Legendary weapons, just introduce the precursor scavenger hunt (that is already more than the half of the work for this feature). Then they could have released one or two or even wait till they have 4 new ones as “surprises” and when people would have started to ask when the next one would be coming …. “when they will be ready, for now enjoy those”.
I read with joy that 70 people are actually working on the next expac because I do think they will go back to their standard and just release it when it will reach the quality they want to reach.

Im also really glad they said that. I really enjoy the LS part of guild wars

Obtena.7952:

No one should have bought HoT thinking it was ‘done’. That’s not even the nature of most MMO expansions. They get tweaked, bugfixed, adjusted, added to … lots of time.

It’s pretty hard to compare almost anything Anet does to other MMO’s because GW2 does quite a few things off the beaten path. I get the feeling that Anet goes out of their way to deliver not-typical game mechanics and features.

when i buy a product, i expect the main features to be functional..they werent
if they had put more of that creative energy into some ordinary (casual) zones,
they wouldnt be in this situation
SPECIAL content for SPECIAL users will give you a SPECIAL playerbase
SPECIAL doesnt work very well if you want money from ORDINARY players

When I bought Hot i knew it wasn’t going to have more than 4 maps but i thought we were going to get ongoing content beyond LS 3 before the talks on next expansion started coming out of anets mouth. I was hoping anet could give us hint of whats left for HoT before next xpac.

HoT’s planned content was already half an expansion. Subtracting the broken promises takes off another half. So it’s a quarter of an expansion.

battledrone.8315:

Obtena.7952:

No one should have bought HoT thinking it was ‘done’. That’s not even the nature of most MMO expansions. They get tweaked, bugfixed, adjusted, added to … lots of time.

It’s pretty hard to compare almost anything Anet does to other MMO’s because GW2 does quite a few things off the beaten path. I get the feeling that Anet goes out of their way to deliver not-typical game mechanics and features.

when i buy a product, i expect the main features to be functional..they werent
if they had put more of that creative energy into some ordinary (casual) zones,
they wouldnt be in this situation
SPECIAL content for SPECIAL users will give you a SPECIAL playerbase
SPECIAL doesnt work very well if you want money from ORDINARY players

Then your expectations aren’t aligned to most of what the MMO industry delivers and especially to how Anet has demonstrated over the last 3 years how they operate. Anet delivers content in chunks. The expansion was no different, except you actually paid for these chunks. You still weren’t going to get them all at once on release day and IIRC, Anet was pretty clear about that so stop pretending that your expectations trump Anet’s content delivery process.

Obtena.7952:

battledrone.8315:

Obtena.7952:

No one should have bought HoT thinking it was ‘done’. That’s not even the nature of most MMO expansions. They get tweaked, bugfixed, adjusted, added to … lots of time.

It’s pretty hard to compare almost anything Anet does to other MMO’s because GW2 does quite a few things off the beaten path. I get the feeling that Anet goes out of their way to deliver not-typical game mechanics and features.

when i buy a product, i expect the main features to be functional..they werent
if they had put more of that creative energy into some ordinary (casual) zones,
they wouldnt be in this situation
SPECIAL content for SPECIAL users will give you a SPECIAL playerbase
SPECIAL doesnt work very well if you want money from ORDINARY players

Then your expectations aren’t aligned to most of what the MMO industry delivers and especially to how Anet has demonstrated over the last 3 years how they operate. Anet delivers content in chunks. The expansion was no different, except you actually paid for these chunks. You still weren’t going to get them all at once on release day and IIRC, Anet was pretty clear about that so stop pretending that your expectations trump Anet’s content delivery process.

When will the next “chunk” of legendary weapons come after the ones MO mentioned, then?

Never, because Anet isn’t developing them. If you’re trying to imply that Legendary as a main feature isn’t functional, that’s debateable.

Obtena.7952:

Never, because Anet isn’t developing them. If you’re trying to imply that Legendary as a main feature isn’t functional, that’s debateable.

So it’s not delayed now. It’s not temporary. It’s never. They took our money and now they will never release what we paid for.

And yet you still argue to support them.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Obtena.7952:

Never, because Anet isn’t developing them. If you’re trying to imply that Legendary as a main feature isn’t functional, that’s debateable.

So it’s not delayed now. It’s not temporary. It’s never. They took our money and now they will never release what we paid for.

And yet you still argue to support them.

Yup. Weird ay? Customers that value content over counting beans.

ProtoGunner.4953:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Here are 3 reasons why the expansion is half done:

1. NO LEGENDARY WEAPONS

2. NO LEGENDARY WEAPONS

3, NO LEGENDARY WEAPONS

/thread, have a nice day

We have 3 new legendary weapons. It’s not no and we also get one additional. So in other words, about 25% of the Legendary weapons we got.

“We’ll deliver 25% of the stuff we promised when we took your money.” That’s one hell of a pitch for the next expansion, huh?

darkace.8925:

ProtoGunner.4953:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Here are 3 reasons why the expansion is half done:

1. NO LEGENDARY WEAPONS

2. NO LEGENDARY WEAPONS

3, NO LEGENDARY WEAPONS

/thread, have a nice day

We have 3 new legendary weapons. It’s not no and we also get one additional. So in other words, about 25% of the Legendary weapons we got.

“We’ll deliver 25% of the stuff we promised when we took your money.” That’s one hell of a pitch for the next expansion, huh?

Yep so next time they say 9 elite specilizations we can expect 3 if wer lucky since thats 33%

Obtena.7952:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Obtena.7952:

Never, because Anet isn’t developing them. If you’re trying to imply that Legendary as a main feature isn’t functional, that’s debateable.

So it’s not delayed now. It’s not temporary. It’s never. They took our money and now they will never release what we paid for.

And yet you still argue to support them.

Yup. Weird ay? Customers that value content over counting beans.

Customers who value getting what they paid their money for.

I’m sure that when you get shorted by a store when you buy something you don’t care at all. It’s just “counting beans.”

Okay these 25% and 33% are just unreaslistic. Maybe, Anet didn’t give us 15% of what we paid for. On the other hand they also gave us stuff they said they wouldn’t.

They said they wouldn’t give us gliding on core tyria and they did. You might say that doesn’t make up for Fractal Leaderboards. It sure does from where I’m sitting.

There’s a whole lot of hyperbole with people randomly applying percentages. They didn’t give us 75% of the legendary weapons and they’ve yet to give us the full WvW overhaul, however, the WvW overhaul is coming… we’ll be testing part of it in April.

The final raid wing is on schedule to be delivered, and that was always the plan.

I wish people would stop exaggerating the percentage of what we got, because saying we got half an expansion is demonstrably wrong.

Vayne.8563:

Okay these 25% and 33% are just unreaslistic. Maybe, Anet didn’t give us 15% of what we paid for. On the other hand they also gave us stuff they said they wouldn’t.

They said they wouldn’t give us gliding on core tyria and they did. You might say that doesn’t make up for Fractal Leaderboards. It sure does from where I’m sitting.

There’s a whole lot of hyperbole with people randomly applying percentages. They didn’t give us 75% of the legendary weapons and they’ve yet to give us the full WvW overhaul, however, the WvW overhaul is coming… we’ll be testing part of it in April.

The final raid wing is on schedule to be delivered, and that was always the plan.

I wish people would stop exaggerating the percentage of what we got, because saying we got half an expansion is demonstrably wrong.

Vayne 3 out of 9 is 33% we got 9 classes.
That was a comment I made since we will only get 4 out of 16 25% of legendary weapons.
Its good if you actualy read whats stated before trying to shoot it down.

Yes and they have been talking about both the wvw overhaul and legendary weapons for months so why should we be happy that they give us one over the other?

Linken.6345:

Vayne.8563:

Okay these 25% and 33% are just unreaslistic. Maybe, Anet didn’t give us 15% of what we paid for. On the other hand they also gave us stuff they said they wouldn’t.

They said they wouldn’t give us gliding on core tyria and they did. You might say that doesn’t make up for Fractal Leaderboards. It sure does from where I’m sitting.

There’s a whole lot of hyperbole with people randomly applying percentages. They didn’t give us 75% of the legendary weapons and they’ve yet to give us the full WvW overhaul, however, the WvW overhaul is coming… we’ll be testing part of it in April.

The final raid wing is on schedule to be delivered, and that was always the plan.

I wish people would stop exaggerating the percentage of what we got, because saying we got half an expansion is demonstrably wrong.

Vayne 3 out of 9 is 33% we got 9 classes.
That was a comment I made since we will only get 4 out of 16 25% of legendary weapons.
Its good if you actualy read whats stated before trying to shoot it down.

Yes and they have been talking about both the wvw overhaul and legendary weapons for months so why should we be happy that they give us one over the other?

It’s not the point. Even the title of this thread said HoT is only half done, when we received far more than half of what was advertised.

If you want to say the legendary weapons was only 25% that’s fine, but that’s not 25% of an expansion. It’s 25% of the legendary weapons which was only part of the expansion.

The point is people are overstating their case.

Do I believe Anet should provide the other Legendary Weapons. I do. I believe they should provide it.

Do I believe it needs to be done before they get us out of the content drought? Nope, that I don’t believe.

However, if the legendary weapons are a single feature and you look at all the single features, we have far more than half an expansion. That’s all I’m saying.

People are always asking is hot worth the price tag but that’s really the wrong question, weather it’s expensive or cheap is irrelevant as long as player base grows or is at least self sustainable.

However from Anet reactions and back tracking it appears this isn’t what’s happening and ild be inclined to say that there’s not enough enjoyable content for a sizeable chunk of people who played and abandoned the game and that’s a real problem

This expansion was half finished, just look at what is happening now. The expansion was supposed to bring in new content and right now they are removing instead of adding.

WvW borderland is going to be reverted to pre expansion. Which means the biggest selling point for WvW players is gone. The much anticipated WvW overhaul and priority after expansion has taken 6 months.

We have no idea what the fractal changes are going to be like but if it’s anywhere near the old system then again a step back. Plus 6 months in and no legendary back.

The PvE maps are getting changed from top to bottom and a nerf coming to masteries.

We could be waiting for up to 8 months for LS3 (from launch).

Legendary weapons scrapped for god knows how long, and the armour could take a couple more months.

There are many more things I could list but anyone saying this expansion was complete are kidding themselves.

Sird.4536:

This expansion was half finished, just look at what is happening now. The expansion was supposed to bring in new content and right now they are removing instead of adding.

WvW borderland is going to be reverted to pre expansion. Which means the biggest selling point for WvW players is gone. The much anticipated WvW overhaul and priority after expansion has taken 6 months.

We have no idea what the fractal changes are going to be like but if it’s anywhere near the old system then again a step back. Plus 6 months in and no legendary back.

The PvE maps are getting changed from top to bottom and a nerf coming to masteries.

We could be waiting for up to 8 months for LS3 (from launch).

Legendary weapons scrapped for god knows how long, and the armour could take a couple more months.

There are many more things I could list but anyone saying this expansion was complete are kidding themselves.

The WvW borderland WAS delivered, the WvW audience doesn’t want it. I disagree it was the main selling point for WvW peiople. They didnt’ really ask for that.

Fractal changes ARE coming but there’s no evidence that they’re going back to what they were. However, it is my belief more people run the now than before.

PvE game is being adjusted to make it less grindy. I’ts not being taken away. Masteries aren’t being taken away.

Waiting for LS 3 is waiting for LS 3. It’s not scrapped. And since we don’t know the original plan we don’t even know it’s delayed. Did Anet say when it was coming or just that it was coming.

By the next patch 25% of the legendaries will have been delivered. We’re missing 75% of that feature.

There are many things more. There’s guild halls, the maps are actuually fun for a lot of people. People have been playing Dragon Stand and TD and AB for months. You may not want to count them because they’re being adjusted by they’re there.

Precursor hunting is in the game. I know this because I’ve already made 2 precursors.

The story, short thought it is, is in the game and I’ve beaten it on multiple characters.

Elite specializations are in the game.

PvP seasons, PvP tournament, and a new PvP type is in the game with it’s own queue.

Gliding has been introduced to core Tyria, something they said they’d never do. People seem to like it, btw.

The Shatterer redesign is much better than the old shatterer.

Very few people are complaining about Fractal rewards.

Most of the raid community seems to like the raiding.

Elites specialization weapon collections give people a pretty easy way to get certain ascended weapons.

There are plenty of new achievements for people who play that play style. Adventures are in the game, not everyone likes them, but some people do.

In fact, that’s really the issue with the expansion. Some people didn’t like some of it.

That’s not saying that stuff wasn’t delivered

It’s like going into a restaurant and only like 10% of what’s on the menu. It doesn’t mean more stuff hasn’t been offered.

No it was not half done, more like two thirds.

Paint the picture however you like but player consensus is already in and most decided the expansion was mostly a disappointment. I think the issue is less about what we got, but more what we did not get and what the fans were actually expecting from it.

Borderland was delivered and the community welcomed the idea of a new map after 3 years (I have been doing WvW since launch pretty hardcore). There are people that only play WvW and for them it would have been a selling point. It was delivere badly the map did not fit in. WvW players gave a ton of feedback but none of it was listen to.

I didn’t say fractal changes are going back to what they were but this new fractal systems after the launch destroyed fractals. The instabilities are complete garbage, scaling from 50+ was broken till the fix, half of the fractals people do now are swamp and 2 molten duo so no wonder more people run them now. That doesn’t mean it’s doing well.

Didn’t say masteries are being taken away but nerfed along with the map timers etc (that I agree with).

LS3 if I remember from the AMA was Q3. Never said it was scrapped but having to wait till that time is absurd. With the scrap to legendary weapons it could be brought forward.

Missing 75% of the legendary weapons till when? The next weapon, short bow, can only be used by 2 classes. For all we now we might not see another legendary weapon this year.

The maps are fun? So why are they making sweeping changes to them? I would bet most people playing those maps were doing so to get tokens etc for the legendary weapons. I am part of a Open Community guild that used to do HoT event runs, they stopped many months ago.

Precursor hunting is sometimes more expensive than buying the precursor of the tp. Also if like me you have no interest in the 4 new legendaries then precursor crafting means nothing and won’t mean nothing till new legendaries are introduced…oh wait.

The story…please…just please…

Elite specs by some as considered power creep. I don’t care either way.

How many people do Stronghold? I can’t imagine it’s a lot. Every pvp stream the players are queued for conquest. There isn’t any mention of stronghold on the ESL pro league and no mention of stronghold even on the forums. The pvp league had major match making issues in S1 with people climbing to legend with amber team mates, and in S2 the MM has people stuck in MMR hell.

The only time I glide is in Magguma zones. The old core maps were not designed for gliding so there aren’t many situations when you are in open world doing hearts etc to glide like you can in HoT zones. Not saying gliding in core is bad.

They redesigned an old boss big deal. This was not part of the expansion.

Few peopl complaining about fractal rewards lol. The drop rates seem worse than before. Maybe you missed the threads a few months back. The encryption boxes gave next to nothing and ascended boxes almost went extinct.

Sure raids are fun. Have you seen the many threads about the non raid community?

They are changing how weapons and armour will be acquired so they can’t have been that fun.

What achievements? The only reason I did HoT zone achievements was to gain mastery points but they are nerfing that so Ye.

Plus look at the revenant. Doesn’t have a second underwater weapon and can only use 2 stances and for a long time in beta you couldnt use it underwater.

Aedelric.1287:

No it was not half done, more like two thirds.

Paint the picture however you like but player consensus is already in and most decided the expansion was mostly a disappointment. I think the issue is less about what we got, but more what we did not get and what the fans were actually expecting from it.

Actually we don’t really know if most decided the expansion was a disappointment or not. Some certainly did. The loud complaining people certainly did..but there’s no way to prove it’s a majority.

Pretty sure it’s a relatively large group of people by percentage however.

Sird.4536:

The maps are fun? So why are they making sweeping changes to them?

This is precisely the kind of comment that I take the most issue with.

I wrote quite a bit of stuff that ended up getting edited. Sweeping changes were made, and there are still people who prefer the original drafts.

Let’s say for arguments sake that half the people like the HoT maps. It could be higher than that, or lower, but let’s say half.

But let’s also say another 30% of the population doesn’t, and 20% of the 50% who like it would like it better with the change.

You can’t deduce that something being changed means the map aren’t fun for a percentage of the player base. Every time I see a thread saying HoT is too hard, for example, almost half the thread is pointing out they think the difficulty is fine. You can’t always say something being changed means that people didn’t like it. Some people didn’t like it.

Anet is trying to make it accessible to people with less time. That’s a goal based on the idea that a percentage of people didn’t have time. But a percentage of people do and a percentage of people like that map.

The playerbase isn’t talking with one voice and you’re trying to make it sound like it is. I believe most WvW players don’t like the new zone, but I’ve seen some people who do.

I know a lot of people who like guild halls though. I know a lot of people who like the new zones. I know a lot of people who like the changes to Fractals, even if you don’t.

And none of them means the expansion was half done. It means parts of it weren’t enjoyed by certain demographics.

I prefer Fractals now to how they were before the changes and I know for a fact, more of my guild does them now than they did before the changes. Because it’s a casual guild who has less time to do stuff.

Which is why the changes won’t be reverted to what they were before.

You make it sound like some people not liking something is everyone not liking something.

For example, we know a lot of people like raiding, but we’re pretty sure it’s not a majority of the player base. Does that mean raiding didn’t come with the expansion?

Vayne.8563:

Aedelric.1287:

No it was not half done, more like two thirds.

Paint the picture however you like but player consensus is already in and most decided the expansion was mostly a disappointment. I think the issue is less about what we got, but more what we did not get and what the fans were actually expecting from it.

Actually we don’t really know if most decided the expansion was a disappointment or not. Some certainly did. The loud complaining people certainly did..but there’s no way to prove it’s a majority.

Pretty sure it’s a relatively large group of people by percentage however.

I am not sure about you but I do not see many glowing player reviews or topics that praise HoT let alone people in game spouting its virtues.

I do not believe even Arena Net thinks the expansion is truly great, which is why they have been trying to address player concerns since it’s release. I personally think the Living World can not come fast enough, the constant content droughts are damaging the game regardless of player satisfaction with HoT.

I have my fingers crossed the next expansion will be better.

Aedelric.1287:

Vayne.8563:

Aedelric.1287:

No it was not half done, more like two thirds.

Paint the picture however you like but player consensus is already in and most decided the expansion was mostly a disappointment. I think the issue is less about what we got, but more what we did not get and what the fans were actually expecting from it.

Actually we don’t really know if most decided the expansion was a disappointment or not. Some certainly did. The loud complaining people certainly did..but there’s no way to prove it’s a majority.

Pretty sure it’s a relatively large group of people by percentage however.

I am not sure about you but I do not see many glowing player reviews or topics that praise HoT let alone people in game spouting its virtues.

I do not believe even Arena Net thinks the expansion is truly great, which is why they have been trying to address player concerns since it’s release. I personally think the Living World can not come fast enough, the constant content droughts are damaging the game regardless of player satisfaction with HoT.

I have my fingers crossed the next expansion will be better.

I don’t see a whole lot of people making positive threads ever and never really have. That doesn’t mean people don’t like stuff.

People complained about LS Season 1 very loudlyi for a very long period of time. Now some people are saying how much they miss it.

However, most threads where you see people complaining, if you count the number of people complaining, you’ll see there are almost as many defenders.

I use to run a store and we had a customer feedback box. We had thousands of satisfied customers and a handful of complaints.

I almost never got a positive comment in the feedback box. More than 90% of the feedback was complaints.

But it was a tiny tiny percentage of those who shopped with us, including return customers who came in frequently. The store was very successful…but to look at customer feedback you’d never see that.

Edit: BTW, people being disappionted has nothing necessarily to do with whether the expansion is half done or 75% done or 90% done. It could be 100% done and people can still be disappointed. It’s not even really the topic of conversation, though I strongly still believe more people will complain than compliment as a rule of thumb.