Guild Wars 2

Here’s a novel idea… start a second group.

Starting with 10 is smart, it’s enough that even casuals can throw together a pug group of 10 without much trouble. Who’s to say if there isn’t an overwhelming demand that they won’t increase difficulty and give it the option for 20 man.

Do raids in other games, and youll understand exactly why they made them 10 man raids. Too many people and it gets unbelievably annoying and almost a guaranteed loss without all great players. Flexible then it becomes like any other scaled content. Why are you not complaining that dungeons are for 5 person parties

What do I want to see in raiding?

Less of it.

The fact that they’re dumping the idea of tight, focused small-group content for this sloppy clusterfrog, just because a bunch of WoW transplants who basically just want Warcraft in a different skin howled for it long enough, depresses me immensely. Geh.

Thanks, guys. I’ll be playing the rest of Heart of Thorns while everyone else Zerk-stacks through RAIDZ[!!!!!] in order to farm rewards and complain about how boring it is, the exact same way they do everything else. Enjoy.

Thunderwitch.3672:

Raid will kill GW2, please stop it before it’s too late.

Just like how high level fractals killed the game?

Substatic.6958:

Thunderwitch.3672:

Raid will kill GW2, please stop it before it’s too late.

Just like how high level fractals killed the game?

There is legendary armor in fractals? Fractals give the legendary precursor? You know – this is not true. Fractals – is pure challenge. And that’s fine.

Everything else – sophistry and demagogy.

I would love to see more phases and needing to use defensive condi’s. Blind and weakness really encouraged to be applied to bosses at points.

Also i really want any new raids with expansions to have uniquie skins so that each raid has a reason to go back to it for the prestige people. Personally i only want the utility of 1 legendary armor set, but those who are collecting allt he skins will help to kewep the older raids from dying out of popularity.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

What do I want to see in raiding?

Less of it.

The fact that they’re dumping the idea of tight, focused small-group content for this sloppy clusterfrog, just because a bunch of WoW transplants who basically just want Warcraft in a different skin howled for it long enough, depresses me immensely. Geh.

Thanks, guys. I’ll be playing the rest of Heart of Thorns while everyone else Zerk-stacks through RAIDZ[!!!!!] in order to farm rewards and complain about how boring it is, the exact same way they do everything else. Enjoy.

I’m glad they are adding raiding, there is still a ton of content already in the game for people that don’t want to raid to play. Raiding will be something to work towards that will hopefully feel good to complete and bring guilds and people closer together by giving them experiences to rally behind.

Mayga.7241:

Substatic.6958:

Thunderwitch.3672:

Raid will kill GW2, please stop it before it’s too late.

Just like how high level fractals killed the game?

There is legendary armor in fractals? Fractals give the legendary precursor? You know – this is not true. Fractals – is pure challenge. And that’s fine.

Everything else – sophistry and demagogy.

You know when fractals content was first released it was the only option to get Ascended Rings or Ascended Back items… But the game survived. That “exclusivity” lasted about 2 months. It wouldn’t hurt the game if Legendary Armor was raid exclusive for another 2 months.

Hopefully very little underwater stuff.

As it is I just pretend my asura can’t swim and try and avoid it at all costs, so bad.

Mayga.7241:

So, it took 1 day. I have carefully read all that relates to the raid on the forum. And I can say – your friendly community died yesterday. Look at yourself, ppl. There is already half of you positioning itself as elitist, dividing community to the pro-gamers and casual gamers. Already gone requirements of the legendary runes. Already considered the alleged setups, which are only some classes.

The friendly community died when people started complaining about not getting everything, just like the rest of the game works but apparently “raids” are a big deal, but locking other things behind specific content isn’t. The moaning and the QQing about raids is what killed your friendly community not the so called “elitists”.

10 makes sense with the game mechanics “two 5 man parties”. Be adults about it if you have 1 extra person and rotate, or expand your guild/guild connections to get 9 more people who would want to do it.

maddoctor.2738:

That “exclusivity” lasted about 2 months.

You yourself explained why the game survived. Legendary award should not only be in the raids. Is that unfair? I didn’t know, that GW2 is PVE game only about the raids. Seriously? )

maddoctor.2738:

The friendly community died when people started complaining about not getting everything, just like the rest of the game works but apparently “raids” are a big deal, but locking other things behind specific content isn’t. The moaning and the QQing about raids is what killed your friendly community not the so called “elitists”.

Game – it is not a job. I worked hard in WoW as a hardcore raider. Only in GW2 I understood that the game may not be a job. The game should be a joy. And GW2 give this joy. You, too, someday will understand this

What i propose Arenanet create a NPC. for auto match partys of 10 people.
You sign in and you will put in a full 10 players party list , them you will receive a pop up message to join in after party full. For a Guild system use same principle, all guild members online, will receive a pop up message to join in.

I think it sucks that it’s only 10 ppl i think it sucks that its instanced at all should be like VW this to me in the end of the game and community that was built up now its all gonna be about your own team and never wanting to play in open world again they better not give special rewards from it skins sure rewards NO

Just an idea here, but maybe we should see how they go about it before we start telling them how it needs to be done? I mean, for all we know, they will have made the best system ever for doing a raid.

Well, there is the LFG tool which sort of does that already, except it isn’t automated. And with that said, I find the LFG tool is already near perfect as it stands – we don’t really need a new method of forming groups for raids, and Guilds can chat to each other and decide who wants to group up for a raid or not.

Mayga.7241:

maddoctor.2738:

That “exclusivity” lasted about 2 months.

You yourself explained why the game survived.

maddoctor.2738:

The friendly community died when people started complaining about not getting everything, just like the rest of the game works but apparently “raids” are a big deal, but locking other things behind specific content isn’t. The moaning and the QQing about raids is what killed your friendly community not the so called “elitists”.

Game – it is not a job. I worked hard in WoW as a hardcore raider. Only in GW2 I understood that the game may not be a job. The game should be a joy. And GW2 give this joy. You, too, someday will understand this

And in the games you play you don’t overcome difficult content? You don’t try to be the best you can be, either to win in multiplayer, finish that hard boss, beat the game on higher difficulties or get a rare achievement? Those are also what people do in video games, those are things players find fun in video games. If I wanted just to see a predefined outcome I’d watch a movie

10 works well in the game engine and I wouldn’t want it to go much further. GW2’s skills tend to be set around 5 people. If for the future they fiddle to get it flexible (not something I personally am after) I would want them to keep the maximum still near to 10.

10man raids let you know your team and players and everyone can contribute more – growing them too large and you are carrying or silencing people to avoid chaos.

Valky.2574:

I think it sucks that it’s only 10 ppl i think it sucks that its instanced at all should be like VW this to me in the end of the game and community that was built up now its all gonna be about your own team and never wanting to play in open world again they better not give special rewards from it skins sure rewards NO

I can barely understand what you just said, but from what I did understand, I can tell that if thats your mentality, you must either deal with it or quit the game. The rest of us and all the new players will have a great time working hard at raids May I suggest club penguin?

So i will never get leg armor then since i refuse to be in a guild
i like how the game is now like VW to me is all the raid this game needs and ppl still fail that hard

Remove legendary armor from raids !

So you want a copy paste of LFR tool from WoW…….No thanks.You have LFG in game already so learn to use it.

Valky.2574:

So i will never get leg armor then since i refuse to be in a guild
i like how the game is now like VW to me is all the raid this game needs and ppl still fail that hard

Remove legendary armor from raids !

I don’t think I’ve ever seen VW fail, you can finish VW while watching a movie on a second monitor.

maddoctor.2738:

Valky.2574:

So i will never get leg armor then since i refuse to be in a guild
i like how the game is now like VW to me is all the raid this game needs and ppl still fail that hard

Remove legendary armor from raids !

I don’t think I’ve ever seen VW fail, you can finish VW while watching a movie on a second monitor.

then you must be new

maddoctor.2738:

And in the games you play you don’t overcome difficult content? You don’t try to be the best you can be, either to win in multiplayer, finish that hard boss, beat the game on higher difficulties or get a rare achievement? Those are also what people do in video games, those are things players find fun in video games. If I wanted just to see a predefined outcome I’d watch a movie

Of course, I always try to get a personal progress. But I have the right to choose where and how can I get better. For example, now I can go to the dungeon and get skins or I can play in PvP for the same. That is as it should be with the raids. As with the legendary weapon.

Mayga.7241:

maddoctor.2738:

And in the games you play you don’t overcome difficult content? You don’t try to be the best you can be, either to win in multiplayer, finish that hard boss, beat the game on higher difficulties or get a rare achievement? Those are also what people do in video games, those are things players find fun in video games. If I wanted just to see a predefined outcome I’d watch a movie

Of course, I always try to get a personal progress. But I have the right to choose where and how can I get better. For example, now I can go to the dungeon and get skins or I can play in PvP for the same. That is as it should be with the raids. As with the legendary weapon.

PVP is a separate game mode, there is a high possibility some PVPers don’t even touch PVE, that’s why they get some rewards. But you can’t get dungeon skins in any other way, just the dungeon tokens (for PVE players). Adding an option for PVP players to get the new legendary armor would be nice I guess, it just needs to be something that
1) has absolutely nothing to do with PVP reward tracks or
2) if they use the tracks, stop giving track progress in custom arenas (so no farming)
Other than that yes PVPers should get access to Legendary Armor by playing their game mode of preference.

Nothing much was said about rewards except that we’ll be able to build legendary armor precursors with raids.
Will raid rewards be time-gated? weekly? daily?

Dynamic sizes are impossible to balance. look at the current “dynamic” scaling events. There are basically just 2 extremes. Either the event is super easy regardless of the number of people there, or it is impossible to complete without the maximum number of people.

Raids would be the same thing. Either it will be trivial with the maximum number of people and that will be the required number, or it will be impossible without the maximum number of people and it will still be the required number. Either way it still will only be done by a set number of people at a time it will just be less balanced and harder to get a group.

When you’re doing dungeons you also take everyone of your guild there?
Raids are bigger dungeons, more challenging, but still group instances, not meant for entire guilds.

If I had to guess, it would be daily like all of the other content. Legendary crafting is a tedious enough as it is without a weekly time-gate.

maddoctor.2738:

PVP is a separate game mode, there is a high possibility some PVPers don’t even touch PVE, that’s why they get some rewards. But you can’t get dungeon skins in any other way, just the dungeon tokens (for PVE players). Adding an option for PVP players to get the new legendary armor would be nice I guess, it just needs to be something that
1) has absolutely nothing to do with PVP reward tracks or
2) if they use the tracks, stop giving track progress in custom arenas (so no farming)
Other than that yes PVPers should get access to Legendary Armor by playing their game mode of preference.

So this is what I’m saying. There should not be only one way to get a legendary armor. Incorrect force players to go to the raid if they do not want to do that. Incorrect make raids as a huge part of the gameplay. It is a way back.

this was a reply cause :

”.My guild(s) contain hundreds of people and one is bursting at the seams with a waiting list. We frequently have many more than 10 people online, and there are probably going to be more than 10 wanting to raid. If I have any number not divisible by 10, we won’t be able to play together.

Instead I’d request raid sizes of a minimum maximum (i.e. the smallest amount that the maximum raid size should be) be 20 players and preferably more, so if I have 21 we can form groups of 10 and 11, or larger groups if I have more than 21. This game is supposed to be about everybody playing together, not being excluded because “we have enough people”.

im not talking abou LFG system and 20 players.
i was concern about if you have 10 full group of guild players to do the raid in guild system. Or even better in raid mode after create a party with yours friends, the system will search for the rest of the players. I use to play in this mode in LAST CHAOS , no WOW, and the system works well, and better no waiting in front of the raid doors.
All raids in Last Chaos, , make a party, use ticket to get in and play.

By mats

You could have just posted this in that topic instead of creating another one. We really have no idea how the Raid system even works right now. Up until now there hasn’t been 10 man instances. We should probably wait and see before we bombard Anet with all these suggestions and complaints.

This is something I think is very important for raid design in GW2. In most MMO’s raids take 1-2 hours to organize, and 2-3 hours to run. This is simply too much of a time commitment for GW2’s playerbase.

This has nothing to do with difficulty, so if you are about to type a reply about how we don’t want raids to be easy, don’t bother because I will ignore your post and report it as off topic.

I think raids in GW2 should be broken down into shorter, multiple section runs. Each completable within an hour if the group knows what they are doing. Obviously it will take much longer as you are learning the raid, but that is to be expected.

There are multiple ways to accomplish this. Something linear like you can’t access the second stretch until you beat the first stretch, but once you do you can start your group at the second stretch if you want. Or just make the wings each very short so you can choose which wing to do and only do that one wing then enter a different instance for the next wing.

Since we don’t have to wait for tanks and healers the set-up time should already be significantly reduced.

The second portion of the discussion is lockouts. Currently dungeons have a 24 hour lockout, which is fine since they are meant to be run over and over and over and over… I think a weekly lockout like guild challenges is good for raids so that players don’t get burned out. Lockouts should be for loot only, to allow for groups to run multiple times and help friends out just like dungeons are currently.

What are peoples thoughts? Remember they want raids to be hard, but accessible, meaning most players should be able to get a group and attempt a raid, but that does not mean that most groups should succeed. What is the best formula for length and lockout for this to occur?

Mayga: If they don’t do this, nobody will do raids.

Everybody knows it, we’ve seen it from other things in the games.

It’s never been about challenge, it’s always been about having something to stand out with.

Edit: If they open it up, those who can get their special stuff most efficiently with raids will do them and nobody else will.

It’s a feature they don’t think players will actually play

Yea I personaly hope it takes 1h max for organised group more will be frustrating

1 or 2 hours to organise?WTF?It shouldn’t take more than 40 minutes.

moiraine.2753:

1 or 2 hours to organise?WTF?It shouldn’t take more than 40 minutes.

oops nvm, didn’t realize you were talking about organizing. Yeah, I have to admit since when does a raid take 1 to 2 hours to organize. Or even 40 minutes. Maybe if you are a pug raid doing it through the LFG I suppose. But a guild should be able to organize very quickly. Especially if they’ve done it at least one time before.

But in ideal world it must be a pure challenge And the reward would be epic skin and title or something like that. But legendary armor must be like legendary weapon.

Incorrect force people to choose only one way and change the specifics of the game for it. Community reacts badly on enforcement. I’ve seen it in many mmo.
Developers do not listen to community in other mmo and they lost a lot of ppl finally. But I believe in Anet. I believe that they will find a way to solve emerged problem.

BIGHARSHNESS.3510:

If I had to guess, it would be daily like all of the other content.

The current guild mission system would like a word…

Previous PvE content in GW2 has had some pretty big flaws that prevent it from being “fun” and “engaging.” I wanted to ask a few questions to make sure the development team can keep them in mind so the new raid content isn’t lacking like the old dungeon content was.

1-Are bosses, encounters, and hazards glitchy to the point that the group can exploit them simply by standing in a certain corner and autoattacking? (Like the Aetherblade fractal end with the rotating energy field.)

2-Are hazards so silly and weak that the group can just stand still and stack with standard protection and heals and not have to avoid them? (Like the weapons testing fractal)

3-Are bosses exploitable in a non-glitch fashion such that no one would care to do them “as intended?” (Like how Lupi can be near insta-killed by reflecting his blobs back at him.)

4-Are encounters so glitched that you get to the last boss and have to restart? (Aetherblade path of twilight arbor where the holograms sometimes don’t like to spawn.)

5-Is the raid littered with so much trash that groups are encouraged to run past or stealth through? (Every dungeon ever. If you want the players to run through hazards, the encounter should be decorated to suggest this.)

6-It was mentioned that “You don’t need to wait for your healer to get online.” Does this mean my Necromancer in healing gear won’t have a niche in raids and thus once I get in a group I get kicked out for playing as a Necromancer, like things currently are?

7- Relating to question 6, are we going to have to wait for our guardian or mesmer to come online because, as with question 3, a specific class skill will turn the content from “challenging” to “kitten easy.”

8-Is the content structured such that the support/control/dps model falls through to just dps or go home, like the way things are currently?

9-Are the raids going to be sufficiently rewarding, or are players going to be encouraged to grind them for slim drop rates?

10- Will each raid be incredibly static with the same cut scenes, same npc dialogue, and same route each time? If an artist builds a huge, pretty environment and players have to run the same route through it every time they do the raid, the content becomes routine and less fun. Instead it would be more engaging to have an algorithm calculate a fresh route through the environment with a little variation each time a player runs it.

As a consumer, these are the questions that I ask myself before deciding to buy this new expansion based on the new PvE content. Does anyone else have thoughts or concerns based on the the precedent of poorly designed PvE content in GW2?

I disagree. I SINCERELY miss the feeling of being in a raid thats so vast that you and your friends can get lost for hours taking on dangerous bosses and finding little twist and turns.

Everyone that’s been asking for raids seems to have forgotten that this is part of it. There will always be groups where the raid size is wrong, be it fixed or a range. This is a flat truth, and people have explained why there’s no good way around it.

Raiders say they want the increased challenge. Well, this is a part of it. It’s not a mechanics challenge, it’s a social challenge. Just… here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuG7mIpVFc0
Watch that. (Next two are optional.)

That should look pretty familiar to the situation at hand.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

This is simply too much of a time commitment for GW2’s playerbase.

Single persons trying to speak for the entirety the gw2 playerbase is getting old. It’s too much of a time commitment for you. Please leave it at that.

That being said, we have no idea how raids work. We know that they are 10 man instances and that’s it. GW2 raids probably will share similarities with other MMO raids, but I’m sure there will be plenty of differences. In fact there will probably be so many differences that traditional raiders will complain about it.

Vavume.8065:

BIGHARSHNESS.3510:

If I had to guess, it would be daily like all of the other content.

The current guild mission system would like a word…

While that is currently true, I do believe that there will be daily guild activities coming with the changes to how guilds work.

Torolan.5816:

Raids may be about challenge and adaption on one side, but that also means exklusion by Default.

No it does not. I can check two items on your list for myself and I did raids (in another game) and I never felt social exclusion for myself or others. It really depends only on the people you are playing with.

If you have a fixed group-size of 10 (or 5) and 11 (or 6) players want to play together, one person has to wait outside of the group. That is not social exclusion.

It is social exclusion if the same person can not play because the others do not want him in the group because he plays sylvari (as an example). In that case, he should look for other players, maybe a different guild, to play with.

But this (not so) social behaviour has nothing to do with raids per se.

Torolan.5816:

2. So it is already happening in Dungeons and Fractals, therefore it is justified in raids and should be continued this way? Sounds logical to me…^^

It was not a justification. It was an example that it does not have anything to do with raids but does have everything to do with the people you are playing with.

I was wondering if we have been told or could be told how the raid lock outs are going to work in this game. Are people going to be able to enter a raid multiple times but only get loot once a week, or are there going to be complete lock out and once you complete a raid you cannot enter again until the following week?

Mayga.7241:

maddoctor.2738:

PVP is a separate game mode, there is a high possibility some PVPers don’t even touch PVE, that’s why they get some rewards. But you can’t get dungeon skins in any other way, just the dungeon tokens (for PVE players). Adding an option for PVP players to get the new legendary armor would be nice I guess, it just needs to be something that
1) has absolutely nothing to do with PVP reward tracks or
2) if they use the tracks, stop giving track progress in custom arenas (so no farming)
Other than that yes PVPers should get access to Legendary Armor by playing their game mode of preference.

So this is what I’m saying. There should not be only one way to get a legendary armor. Incorrect force players to go to the raid if they do not want to do that. Incorrect make raids as a huge part of the gameplay. It is a way back.

Legendary armor is not necessary for your gameplay, just a skin, nothing special.
Not legendary force you to the raid, but you force yourself to the legendary.
If you want special, go learn it, go do it, then you get reward, it’s fair trade.
Btw I believe anet will add legendary armor in pvp league someday and ppl will complain about it.

Unless I’ve missed something no one knows anything about raids except what was in the original announcement.

I assume now they’ve been announced there will be more info coming, but not yet.

jazzllanna.1278:

I was wondering if we have been told or could be told how the raid lock outs are going to work in this game. Are people going to be able to enter a raid multiple times but only get loot once a week, or are there going to be complete lock out and once you complete a raid you cannot enter again until the following week?

It will probably work like dungeons/fractals. Enter at any time with daily reward reset. It is not a guild mission after all.