Guild Wars 2

Anchoku.8142:

Seera.5916:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Learning to play shouldn’t be frustrating or a grind.

I know my problem is a personal L2P issue.

Everyone has their own speed. The great thing about GW2 is there are game modes and areas for everyone. It is exceedingly casual while also offering challenging content.

Some are great learners under pressure. Some enjoy overcoming their shortcomings. Some like to role play with no combat at all. Some like defeating real players. Some like following the game’s story. Some like coordinating a winning strategy.

As long as GW2 can offer new challenges and content for each of the many subsets, it will do well.

Seera, focus on completing just one task. One you have done that, then work on another. Learning is incremental. We all get distracted and daunted by too many tasks.

BRA has been at this a while and is farther ahead in learning skills. We, the players, are all spread out; not just in skill but in preferences… subsets of ‘skill’ where one player who is terrible at PvP and PvE may own a large chunk of the BLTC stock.

You do not have to compete with others. Just find challenges that interest you. Maybe you want to lean guild missions, or craft, or trade, or grind champs, or map areas, or grind events for loot and xp and karma, or build rank in PvP; decide on something and work at it.

From a game design PoV, satisfying the most customers fir the least cost is their game. The best we, as players, can do is explain how our ‘suggestions’ and opinions matter in terms of growing player base; more specifically, gem buyers and client purchases.

My main issues are not knowing the tells for the big attacks and not having movement and combat down. The former will only be helped by actually getting in game and playing against them and seeing it. The latter is best done by opponents that force me to move and fight at the same time. Anything else will let me make mistakes and not grow.

I am better than when I first started playing GW2. I’m actually better at keeping an eye on my health than I was when I started. My main issue in combat oriented games is suddenly dying because I didn’t heal myself because I didn’t realize I was almost dead. Hence the clerics gear set up at the beginning. I now die for reasons other than not knowing I was almost dead.

My suggestion for the game with regards to HoT map difficulty is to keep it where it’s at.

General Health.9678:

You know you can just run past them, right?

I tried too 10 times.. its a vine very little room, dead in seconds..

So you fought the same enemy ten times, but didn’t try to use stealth to simply run past them, or smokescreen to block their projectiles, or dagger storm to reflect the projectiles back to kill them, or basilisk venom to disable an burst one of them down, or double dodges/vault their arrow volley to close in and kill them, or scorpion to pull separate and kill them?

Yes i tried all sorts of combos, most skills completely do no damage to them. its a vine i had very little room to fight them.. in the end i gave up after just trying to run past them again and again..

I have no idea what a F skill is.. sure i suck, daredevil is not my main to be honest i don’t know much about Daredevil i got a build on metabuilds and ran with it..

Still all levels of players should be able to play a game they paid for if not the game is not working correctly..

Dante.1508:

General Health.9678:

You know you can just run past them, right?

I tried too 10 times.. its a vine very little room, dead in seconds..

So you fought the same enemy ten times, but didn’t try to use stealth to simply run past them, or smokescreen to block their projectiles, or dagger storm to reflect the projectiles back to kill them, or basilisk venom to disable an burst one of them down, or double dodges/vault their arrow volley to close in and kill them, or scorpion to pull separate and kill them?

Yes i tried all sorts of combos, most skills completely do no damage to them. its a vine i had very little room to fight them.. in the end i gave up after just trying to run past them again and again..

I have no idea what a F skill is.. sure i suck, daredevil is not my main to be honest i don’t know much about Daredevil i got a build on metabuilds and ran with it..

Still all levels of players should be able to play a game they paid for if not the game is not working correctly..

I already explained how you can beat them. If the vine is an issue, just line up before you engage and enter into melee range directly in front of them so that both frogs leap backward more or less centered on the vine. Dodge at them to evade the arrows they fire as they leap backward. Stay on top of them. Their leap is now on cooldown. Just lay into them with auto-attack and cleave with dagger or staff should make short work of them.

If your attacks are dealing insufficient damage to them, there may be a gear or build issue. Post your build from skill editor. Maybe there’s something you could tweak in your build that might help with the issues you’re having. Or hit me up in game some time and we can take a look at it then.

pepsis.5384:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Danicus.4952:

I am an experienced casual player. 13K APs, 950 WVW rank, Closer to the Stars, done dungeons, raids, crafted ascended gear etc, etc. I’ve read quite a few honest postings about frustrations with HOT, and the trend in responses has been to respond to the OP by saying “learn to play better” or “I did it just fine, there is something the matter with you.”

I personally find HOT uninviting as a solo PVE player. It lacks the difficulty progression structure present in most games. It demands group (zerg) participation for individual rewards. It requires the development of mobility masteries to effectively access map areas efficiently. It loads the player with an ocean of inventory filling currencies or keys. It creates an unprecedented level of grind for goals.

I’ve completed the HOT personal story with a rev, and moved partially through with 4 other characters.

I’ve completed the new specializations with all classes. I find them fun and interesting additions to the game (imo the best part of the expansion) – getting HOT HPs pretty annoying of course. I must admit, I turned in some WVW credits to unlock some HOT HPs.

I was really looking forward to HOT, but am truly ambivalent about the expansion maps at this point – even with the nerfs.

I find myself now checking in, hitting the daily and getting out.

Pretty sure I won’t buy another GW2 expansion – especially if it follows the map design and skill progression structure HOT model. It’s a shame – I am a long time dedicated GW player – sorry to see the franchise pick this path.

My core point is, telling an OP that is frustrated with HOT to “L2P” or “I did it, what is the matter with you?” is missing the mark. There are authentic design departures here, and they are not friendly to the casual player.

HoT is not hard, not at all. If anything core Tyria is too easy. HoT is easy mode if you play a ranged class. My ranger face rolled through HoT in exotic gear with some green trinkets. I only got the HoT pets after I had finished the story. The hero challenges only really need 2 people to do them, I did everyone on AB with 2 others and they where really easy to do with my warrior. Some can be soloed. As long as you have enough room to move and your only fighting the one mob. With my other warrior I soloed the arrow head, king mushroom, chak blitzer. It’s also about what weapons you use also. Alot of fights are easier at range. Like I said if you have space the fights are easy.

Most peoples problems with HoT is they think they can face tank everything like they did in the core game. People are unwilling to change tactics. I used to be quite rigid myself. I wanted to play with the weapons I wanted to play with. Then I realised that they would not always be the best option for some fights. So I changed my ways. I tried different things. And I found things alot easier.

This I feel is the main cause of peoples frustration with HoT. There unwillingness to try a different approach.

Good for you! I on the other hand have adopted the “play it your way” motto long before Arenanet used it as a marketing tool. So, if a game denies me my playstyle with a certain class ( weapon, build etc ) I change the class. If that doesnt work I change the game.

If folks want to play melee and tank (with dodges and blocks of course) they should be able to build for it and play it. I have invested in gear making my War into a 25k HP, 3000 armor monster, so he should be able to fight almost anything with his GS. If not then Arenanet failed. This is how I see things, surely many people have different takes on the matter. Fact is GW2 shows a drop in profit according to NCsoft data. HoT aint so hot after all.

You must have a lot of games you’ve never finished. I too play my way. I don’t use zurker gear on my main warrior. He used to rock knights armor, with zurker trinkets and weapons, after playing HoT, I changed his armor to sinister, same for weapons. Mobility is your friend in HoT. Sure if you want to face tank everything, you can. Just don’t expect to win every battle. Some mobs hit hard, and other hit very hard. The biggest problem with GS is that skill 2 which is the bulk of the dps. That is when most people end up dead.

Dante.1508:

General Health.9678:

You know you can just run past them, right?

I tried too 10 times.. its a vine very little room, dead in seconds..

So you fought the same enemy ten times, but didn’t try to use stealth to simply run past them, or smokescreen to block their projectiles, or dagger storm to reflect the projectiles back to kill them, or basilisk venom to disable an burst one of them down, or double dodges/vault their arrow volley to close in and kill them, or scorpion to pull separate and kill them?

Yes i tried all sorts of combos, most skills completely do no damage to them. its a vine i had very little room to fight them.. in the end i gave up after just trying to run past them again and again..

I have no idea what a F skill is.. sure i suck, daredevil is not my main to be honest i don’t know much about Daredevil i got a build on metabuilds and ran with it..

Still all levels of players should be able to play a game they paid for if not the game is not working correctly..

Your F skills are your profession specific mechanic skills, such as steal on thief, the pet controls on ranger, the shatter skills on Mesmer, attunements on Eles and so on. Perhaps you put them on other keys a long time ago and forgot? But that’s what they were originally bound to and are called.

No offense and all, but if you know you’re not good at the game why bring in an alt you don’t know well with a build you got off metabuilds instead of your main to an area that’s been known from before the expansion launched to be harder than the vanilla maps. Why didn’t you play the professions you know and are comfortable on? The thief is high damage but squishy. A high stakes win or lose, melee profession that depends on its steals, dodges, and invisibility to win a fight. It’s not really what you should be playing on if you’re already struggling.

I’m not good either and I make sure I’m playing on a char that I know well to the new areas to solo play. Professions I don’t play often and don’t know well, I only take there if I have at least one other person with me. Deliberately taking one of the squishest professions, one that you’re not comfortable with, into the hardest areas is a choice. You could be taking your main and enjoying it much more. Then you take the ones you’re weaker on later when you know the area better.

Still all levels of players should be able to play a game they paid for if not the game is not working correctly..

It’s not the level of player here. It was your choice to make it harder on yourself by choosing a profession you don’t know well and a build you got somewhere else instead of your main.

Seera.5916:

I know my problem is a personal L2P issue.

Which is why I’d say watch a video.
Don’t say “i can’t watch videos because…”
or
“I don’t learn that way..”
Just watch a video.
Dulfy has videos of her solo running round all the HoT maps. You don’t need to see her hands, just her routes. You’ll also get an idea of what to skip and what to fight. Don’t watch it and expect to remember it, the maps can be done in chunks – often top left, middle left, bottom left and then the same on the right. Watch the video, do the route, open the map up, get the HPs and MPs, poi’s and vistas and WPs. You haven’t had to L2P at any point here.

For things like raids.. yeah that can be confusing, powers going off everywhere, auras, you’ve no idea what food is keeping people alive where you’d die. It gives you an idea of what to do, it doesn’t play for you but it doesn’t need to. You get the gist of something and you can then try it out. So if you need to dodge, dodge, fire on a raid boss.. go practice that on a frog. Get your keys sorted. Then go do the high stakes content. For PvE however you are over-egging it. You can run past most things solo and if you need to take down something you can’t do solo, well that’s what other players are for. Fighting in a group will help you for when you want or need to solo it later.

Seera.5916:

My main issues are not knowing the tells for the big attacks and not having movement and combat down.

I feel you. I can move and shoot and dodge the attacks but often I just stand still and shoot and invariably will mistime my rooted attack so that I’m stood in the giant unmissable, easily dodgeable orange semicircle. And it doesn’t kill you and ruin your game. Once you realise it’s not the end of the world to get run over by a mordrem dinosaur guy or flattened by a hammer wielding mordrem.. you will get blase about it. Not something to encourage if you want to pvp but you know.. pve.. you don’t have to get good, just survive to repeat your mistakes another day.

Seera.5916:

I am better than when I first started playing GW2. I’m actually better at keeping an eye on my health than I was when I started.

I can’t believe how bad I was when I started.. especially in dungeons because I’m very much a walk into combat and press 1 type of person and the game doesn’t encourage that in melee without good gear which I definitely didn’t have. I think not only did I get better but so did other people. Speed clearing dungeons is proof of that.

Seera.5916:

My main issue in combat oriented games is suddenly dying because I didn’t heal myself because I didn’t realize I was almost dead. Hence the clerics gear set up at the beginning. I now die for reasons other than not knowing I was almost dead.

I’d still suggest going berserker because your dps is so high, chances are that the mob is dead quicker and a dead mob isn’t doing you any damage unless it has a dot. If you go something tanky then you can stand there for ten minutes hitting the mob and every time you wave your sword or focus or whatever is a chance the mob gets a lucky crit in and kills you. The only good mob is a dead mob. Plus it does wonders for your self-confidence knowing you can play at that level.

Seera.5916:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

So essentially, the problem you have is a set of personal failings that get in the way of normal function. A short temper and poor self motivation is something you should work on, not something everyone else should work around. Likewise, I don’t care what your personal health is. As I write this, I have a fire in my belly and full body nerve pain, spurred from a vicious food intolerance and restaurant servers who lie about the ingredients in their meal. Everybody’s got problems, everyone is miserable for some reason, and the world works because we don’t let our ailments bind us and our shortcomings define us.

Learning to play shouldn’t be frustrating or a grind. Part of the fun of playing a game is learning to play the game. You should like getting better, getting smarter, and out-witting the puzzles set before you. If you absolutely dread having to figure out the extremely basic tactics needed to fight an enemy, then this is a mental barrier imposed by you alone. It is utterly baffling how you can purposefully choose one of the hardest classes to play in the game, but can’t choose to use one of the dozen tactics the class provides that would allow you to get through HoT.

And like I said, a glass cannon build is what everyone should go for when they start the game. The glass cannon is not the deep end. The pool is almost completely uniform in depth.

You seemed to have missed the line in a previous post where I said I wasn’t asking ANet to make the game easier for me because I know my problem is a personal L2P issue.

I thought about this for awhile, and something keeps bugging me. This conversation between us started because you insist that I can’t help people by watching them play, because somehow the mistakes people make can’t be fixed even if I see them. And yet, you keep insisting on the own uniqueness of your condition. But that would mean that my method would work, if you are the extra special case.

So why did this whole thing play out? What is the problem you have with the idea that watching someone play could let someone else give better advice and help that person?

I am the worst player in this whole game, truly, and guess what!!!!! I now have some elites!!!!! I have two Dragon Hunters, a Reaper, a Berserker, and am very close to a Druid.

I think the original difficulty put a bad taste in people’s mouths..first impressions are so very strong..

To combat a lousy first impression, people have to get, in this order,
(1) a nice cold glass of ice tea,
(2) a positive attitude,
(3) Dulfy’s amazing list of solo hero point locations, and her videos bookmarked for quick reference,

With these three items you are all set to sally forth into the Jungle. If you are adventuring by yourself nobody is going to jeer at you if you die, and if you are with friends, they will not jeer either. Just get up, heal your armor, and try again

I have very poor hand eye coordination. I die in HoT yes, probably more than the normal player, but I keep on keeping on

Devs, thank you for reducing the difficulty level to the point where, and those like me, can play HoT. Thanks for having a lot of solo Hero Points in the first map, and thank you for getting rid of the 400 needed Hero points, and giving us a more manageable number.

Devs, Remember this difficulty level when you do the next expansion…I think my fellow clutzes in this game are many in number, and are probably the ones who buy stuff from the Gemstore with real money

Lisa.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Seera.5916:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

So essentially, the problem you have is a set of personal failings that get in the way of normal function. A short temper and poor self motivation is something you should work on, not something everyone else should work around. Likewise, I don’t care what your personal health is. As I write this, I have a fire in my belly and full body nerve pain, spurred from a vicious food intolerance and restaurant servers who lie about the ingredients in their meal. Everybody’s got problems, everyone is miserable for some reason, and the world works because we don’t let our ailments bind us and our shortcomings define us.

Learning to play shouldn’t be frustrating or a grind. Part of the fun of playing a game is learning to play the game. You should like getting better, getting smarter, and out-witting the puzzles set before you. If you absolutely dread having to figure out the extremely basic tactics needed to fight an enemy, then this is a mental barrier imposed by you alone. It is utterly baffling how you can purposefully choose one of the hardest classes to play in the game, but can’t choose to use one of the dozen tactics the class provides that would allow you to get through HoT.

And like I said, a glass cannon build is what everyone should go for when they start the game. The glass cannon is not the deep end. The pool is almost completely uniform in depth.

You seemed to have missed the line in a previous post where I said I wasn’t asking ANet to make the game easier for me because I know my problem is a personal L2P issue.

I thought about this for awhile, and something keeps bugging me. This conversation between us started because you insist that I can’t help people by watching them play, because somehow the mistakes people make can’t be fixed even if I see them. And yet, you keep insisting on the own uniqueness of your condition. But that would mean that my method would work, if you are the extra special case.

So why did this whole thing play out? What is the problem you have with the idea that watching someone play could let someone else give better advice and help that person?

I said just the video wouldn’t tell you the reason why. You’d have to talk with them to figure out the reason why. You can probably give a good educated guess as to what the issue is based on the video, but you can’t know for sure until you talk to the player. That’s all I meant by the video comment.

And I said I wouldn’t be helped by a video. No where did I mean for that to mean no one could. My problems can’t be helped by watching a video on how to play. My problems will be solved when I can get my mindset right. And unfortunately, no one can just tell me to do it and it will magically happen. Unfortunately, this little problem can only be solved by me.

Seera.5916:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Seera.5916:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

So essentially, the problem you have is a set of personal failings that get in the way of normal function. A short temper and poor self motivation is something you should work on, not something everyone else should work around. Likewise, I don’t care what your personal health is. As I write this, I have a fire in my belly and full body nerve pain, spurred from a vicious food intolerance and restaurant servers who lie about the ingredients in their meal. Everybody’s got problems, everyone is miserable for some reason, and the world works because we don’t let our ailments bind us and our shortcomings define us.

Learning to play shouldn’t be frustrating or a grind. Part of the fun of playing a game is learning to play the game. You should like getting better, getting smarter, and out-witting the puzzles set before you. If you absolutely dread having to figure out the extremely basic tactics needed to fight an enemy, then this is a mental barrier imposed by you alone. It is utterly baffling how you can purposefully choose one of the hardest classes to play in the game, but can’t choose to use one of the dozen tactics the class provides that would allow you to get through HoT.

And like I said, a glass cannon build is what everyone should go for when they start the game. The glass cannon is not the deep end. The pool is almost completely uniform in depth.

You seemed to have missed the line in a previous post where I said I wasn’t asking ANet to make the game easier for me because I know my problem is a personal L2P issue.

I thought about this for awhile, and something keeps bugging me. This conversation between us started because you insist that I can’t help people by watching them play, because somehow the mistakes people make can’t be fixed even if I see them. And yet, you keep insisting on the own uniqueness of your condition. But that would mean that my method would work, if you are the extra special case.

So why did this whole thing play out? What is the problem you have with the idea that watching someone play could let someone else give better advice and help that person?

I said just the video wouldn’t tell you the reason why. You’d have to talk with them to figure out the reason why. You can probably give a good educated guess as to what the issue is based on the video, but you can’t know for sure until you talk to the player. That’s all I meant by the video comment.

And I said I wouldn’t be helped by a video. No where did I mean for that to mean no one could. My problems can’t be helped by watching a video on how to play. My problems will be solved when I can get my mindset right. And unfortunately, no one can just tell me to do it and it will magically happen. Unfortunately, this little problem can only be solved by me.

Here’s the thing: Unless you’re of some special exemption, the reason why it is someone plays badly is because they simply lack the knowledge on how to play well.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Seera.5916:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Seera.5916:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

So essentially, the problem you have is a set of personal failings that get in the way of normal function. A short temper and poor self motivation is something you should work on, not something everyone else should work around. Likewise, I don’t care what your personal health is. As I write this, I have a fire in my belly and full body nerve pain, spurred from a vicious food intolerance and restaurant servers who lie about the ingredients in their meal. Everybody’s got problems, everyone is miserable for some reason, and the world works because we don’t let our ailments bind us and our shortcomings define us.

Learning to play shouldn’t be frustrating or a grind. Part of the fun of playing a game is learning to play the game. You should like getting better, getting smarter, and out-witting the puzzles set before you. If you absolutely dread having to figure out the extremely basic tactics needed to fight an enemy, then this is a mental barrier imposed by you alone. It is utterly baffling how you can purposefully choose one of the hardest classes to play in the game, but can’t choose to use one of the dozen tactics the class provides that would allow you to get through HoT.

And like I said, a glass cannon build is what everyone should go for when they start the game. The glass cannon is not the deep end. The pool is almost completely uniform in depth.

You seemed to have missed the line in a previous post where I said I wasn’t asking ANet to make the game easier for me because I know my problem is a personal L2P issue.

I thought about this for awhile, and something keeps bugging me. This conversation between us started because you insist that I can’t help people by watching them play, because somehow the mistakes people make can’t be fixed even if I see them. And yet, you keep insisting on the own uniqueness of your condition. But that would mean that my method would work, if you are the extra special case.

So why did this whole thing play out? What is the problem you have with the idea that watching someone play could let someone else give better advice and help that person?

I said just the video wouldn’t tell you the reason why. You’d have to talk with them to figure out the reason why. You can probably give a good educated guess as to what the issue is based on the video, but you can’t know for sure until you talk to the player. That’s all I meant by the video comment.

And I said I wouldn’t be helped by a video. No where did I mean for that to mean no one could. My problems can’t be helped by watching a video on how to play. My problems will be solved when I can get my mindset right. And unfortunately, no one can just tell me to do it and it will magically happen. Unfortunately, this little problem can only be solved by me.

Here’s the thing: Unless you’re of some special exemption, the reason why it is someone plays badly is because they simply lack the knowledge on how to play well.

But that doesn’t change the fact that the video doesn’t tell you that. If you haven’t picked it up by now, I’m very literal. Symbolism in English classes was the death of me.

And I don’t disagree that most of the time, your guess is correct with regards to the reason. It’s an hypothesis you arrived at based at past knowledge and what you see. And I’ve got no problems with hypotheses.

Seera.5916:

But that doesn’t change the fact that the video doesn’t tell you that. If you haven’t picked it up by now, I’m very literal. Symbolism in English classes was the death of me.

And I don’t disagree that most of the time, your guess is correct with regards to the reason. It’s an hypothesis you arrived at based at past knowledge and what you see. And I’ve got no problems with hypotheses.

The video does tell me that. It would tell me exactly how they are messing up, and then I can give highly directed and specific notes. When I say “special exemption”, that means you must be physically or mentally incapable of performing that action. Not just stubborn or uncaring. For someone to be physically or mentally incapable of improving their play while also at the same time being physically or mentally capable to make a video about it while demanding an explanation, it would be nigh impossible.

So, at this point you both seem to be in agreement that Seera’s insufficiency is the result of a personal mental barrier.

It’s not so hard to understand, is it? If you think about it, you can probably find areas in your life where you know you could perform better, but you hold yourself back. Maybe you don’t want to invest the time? Maybe it’s an obstacle you find intimidating for some reason or other? Like not checking on your credit card statement because you don’t want to see how it reads. You could overcome it. You know you could. But for now, apparently, you have better things to do than to address it.

It’s so illogical, right? But who among us is performing to the best of their ability in everything they do? You’re holding yourselves back! Why?

I care very little about Seera’s mental barriers. I’m more annoyed than any sort of concern. Seera is confused about a very simple fact: It doesn’t matter why you don’t know what to do. There’s limitless ways to not know something. The particular mental state and personal circumstances that has lead someone to not acquire the knowledge to beat something is irrelevant. It is all corrected the same way: you provide information to those who don’t have it.

The people who actively hold themselves back are also not the type of people who would go around complaining that the game is too hard. No, the people who come forward and say “I died 10 times to the exact same pair of enemies” are the ones who are actively trying but still don’t get it.

The problem isn’t about people not always giving the best of their performance. The problem is not giving satisfactory performance. You should aim to pass the threshold of “competent” in whatever you’re doing in life. You should be competent enough to manage your finances, personal hygiene, work ethics, human interaction, personal safety, etc. If you’re the type of person that can’t look at your credit card statement because you constantly spend yourself into unmanageable dept, then it isn’t “O.K.” that you are like that.

“(3) Dulfy’s amazing list of solo hero point locations, and her videos bookmarked for quick reference”

Dito. Thanks to the the locations and how to reach them, I only had to bother with one or two hero challenges (as I ignored those in Silverwaste and the dry-thingy map), where a group would be required.

But otherwise I agree with the OP. Getting those narcistic responses à la git good, l2p lolz, or “I had no problem with it, so everything is perfect and you shouldn’t have any as well” is not helping anyone. Or “PvE is easy-mode just spec what you want.” Sorry, for being such a bad player but if it were so easy for me, I wouldn’t ask in the first place. Of course, I admit that my general dislike of those meta-event-only maps à la Orr or all of HoT doesn’t always increase my motivation or patience.

But yeah, frog enemies are pathetically annoying. Similar to Smokescale, which I love as a pet, but try to not catch their attention ever lol.

well the problem with OP’s post is that he tries to justify his comments by suggesting its ‘casuals’ that have problems, when being casual has got nothing to do with it, the real issue is that he personally doesn’t enjoy HOT. The L2P comments although cheeky are also correct , for example the thread that says HOT is unplayable solo is absolutely incorrect, most if not all who like HOT have done and do play it solo, and you can pull up a video of just about anything in GW2 in seconds to show you exactly what to do – step by step.

There’s also a failure by people complaining to look at the whole picture, which is that HOT is part of a full game, and over the full game the vast vast majority is in fact soloable, in fact those that wish for content that require grouping have a fraction of the content they want in comparison to those that want to play solo.

An interesting point about casuals and not finding the game enjoyable. I would like to reiterate why I suggest why HOT may not be enjoyable for the casual player. Player skill progression is usually tied to built in in-game learning experiences. In my opinion, well-designed in-game learning experiences follow somewhat of a time-linear scaled set of challenges. A casual player (in my opinion), follows this sequence without excessive frustration. The ideal is a sort of Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi flow state where consciousness of time playing disappears. I do not believe HOT scales in this way. Yes it is possible, with time effort and motivation to overcome these challenges, but is that what the designers truly intended? I want to thank the posters on this thread for such positive and sincere dialogue.

I think we should avoid the word “casual”. As things are today in the world of gaming, and specially in the MMOs zone, the word really don’t describe anything.

As a prime example I simply DON’T KNOW if I’m casual or not. I’m certain I’m NOT a pro. By that logic I should be casual. But the profile(s) people throw around in the forum seldom describe me. Can someone be skilled yet not pro? or veteran yet not skilled? Are any of these “casual”?

Sadly, most of the threads using the “casual” approuch as a reason to ask changes seems to describe said “casual” crowd as unskilled, uninterested in learn and unwilling to commit people… If that is the definition, then I’m not casual, and I openly oppose the game should cater to them.

Dante.1508:

I tried to pass two on a vine in VB and was killed 10 times in a row didn’t even drop one of them in the 10 tries, that to me is broken mechanics and i move on, its no longer fun after 10 frustrating tries so i logout, i did not go back since.

In addition to the good DD advice other posters have given, here’s my take on it:

Elementalist – use reflects to repel their arrows, use the dagger’s ride the lightning or that other teleport util to get close to them or just skip past them. If you’re a tempest, even better. Hit them with your overloads, lightning, fire, earth. Use your small or large earth elementals to tank them.

Mesmer – there’s a teleport util and two stealth utils, plus the torch’s stealth skill you can use to skip them or get close. Use illusions to distract them, sword #2 to hit them without taking damage, etc.

And in addition to that, there’s a spy kit you can get somewhere that gives any toon 3 seconds of invisibility, regardless of profession. Plus elemental powder and ogre whistles which give you minions regardless of profession.

There’s plenty of ways to handle the frogs, even if you’re outnumbered. With no offense intended, if you’re trying something ten times and your technique isn’t working it may be time to consider a different strategy and review what other tools you have at your disposal. Or just go a different way. Glide to a different spot. If you have stealth gliding, glide past them invisibly.

Danicus.4952:

An interesting point about casuals and not finding the game enjoyable. I would like to reiterate why I suggest why HOT may not be enjoyable for the casual player. Player skill progression is usually tied to built in in-game learning experiences. In my opinion, well-designed in-game learning experiences follow somewhat of a time-linear scaled set of challenges. A casual player (in my opinion), follows this sequence without excessive frustration. The ideal is a sort of Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi flow state where consciousness of time playing disappears. I do not believe HOT scales in this way. Yes it is possible, with time effort and motivation to overcome these challenges, but is that what the designers truly intended? I want to thank the posters on this thread for such positive and sincere dialogue.

This is true. But it’s also true that the game has been getting slowly harder. Southsun was harder than Orr. Drytop and the Silverwastes are hard. But people hide behind zergs instead of learning how to play. The living world stuff got a lot harder. A lot of people stopped doing it, instead of learning it. Or played with a group and got carried through.

I played the content until Core was easy and each time something came out I played it and got better. But people take shortcuts, depend on zergs or being carried.

The content did get more difficult gradually.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Dante.1508:

General Health.9678:

You know you can just run past them, right?

I tried too 10 times.. its a vine very little room, dead in seconds..

So you fought the same enemy ten times, but didn’t try to use stealth to simply run past them, or smokescreen to block their projectiles, or dagger storm to reflect the projectiles back to kill them, or basilisk venom to disable an burst one of them down, or double dodges/vault their arrow volley to close in and kill them, or scorpion to pull separate and kill them?

Yes i tried all sorts of combos, most skills completely do no damage to them. its a vine i had very little room to fight them.. in the end i gave up after just trying to run past them again and again..

I have no idea what a F skill is.. sure i suck, daredevil is not my main to be honest i don’t know much about Daredevil i got a build on metabuilds and ran with it..

Still all levels of players should be able to play a game they paid for if not the game is not working correctly..

Your F skills are your profession specific mechanic skills, such as steal on thief, the pet controls on ranger, the shatter skills on Mesmer, attunements on Eles and so on. Perhaps you put them on other keys a long time ago and forgot? But that’s what they were originally bound to and are called.

No offense and all, but if you know you’re not good at the game why bring in an alt you don’t know well with a build you got off metabuilds instead of your main to an area that’s been known from before the expansion launched to be harder than the vanilla maps. Why didn’t you play the professions you know and are comfortable on? The thief is high damage but squishy. A high stakes win or lose, melee profession that depends on its steals, dodges, and invisibility to win a fight. It’s not really what you should be playing on if you’re already struggling.

I’m not good either and I make sure I’m playing on a char that I know well to the new areas to solo play. Professions I don’t play often and don’t know well, I only take there if I have at least one other person with me. Deliberately taking one of the squishest professions, one that you’re not comfortable with, into the hardest areas is a choice. You could be taking your main and enjoying it much more. Then you take the ones you’re weaker on later when you know the area better.

Still all levels of players should be able to play a game they paid for if not the game is not working correctly..

It’s not the level of player here. It was your choice to make it harder on yourself by choosing a profession you don’t know well and a build you got somewhere else instead of your main.

I already tried my Ranger, Engineer and Elementalist before my Thief, they did not have green jewelry, everything exotic and still got wiped so many times in HoT..

My Thief was a last ditched effort because i read daredevil is a good dps pve class but it still died so easy.. Its just not fun anymore in the game.

Nevermind i’ve given up on Gw2, not worth the frustration..

Dante.1508:

Nevermind i’ve given up on Gw2, not worth the frustration..

But you haven’t given up on the forums. I’m finding companies should sell access to forums, it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.

Dante.1508:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Dante.1508:

General Health.9678:

You know you can just run past them, right?

I tried too 10 times.. its a vine very little room, dead in seconds..

So you fought the same enemy ten times, but didn’t try to use stealth to simply run past them, or smokescreen to block their projectiles, or dagger storm to reflect the projectiles back to kill them, or basilisk venom to disable an burst one of them down, or double dodges/vault their arrow volley to close in and kill them, or scorpion to pull separate and kill them?

Yes i tried all sorts of combos, most skills completely do no damage to them. its a vine i had very little room to fight them.. in the end i gave up after just trying to run past them again and again..

I have no idea what a F skill is.. sure i suck, daredevil is not my main to be honest i don’t know much about Daredevil i got a build on metabuilds and ran with it..

Still all levels of players should be able to play a game they paid for if not the game is not working correctly..

Your F skills are your profession specific mechanic skills, such as steal on thief, the pet controls on ranger, the shatter skills on Mesmer, attunements on Eles and so on. Perhaps you put them on other keys a long time ago and forgot? But that’s what they were originally bound to and are called.

No offense and all, but if you know you’re not good at the game why bring in an alt you don’t know well with a build you got off metabuilds instead of your main to an area that’s been known from before the expansion launched to be harder than the vanilla maps. Why didn’t you play the professions you know and are comfortable on? The thief is high damage but squishy. A high stakes win or lose, melee profession that depends on its steals, dodges, and invisibility to win a fight. It’s not really what you should be playing on if you’re already struggling.

I’m not good either and I make sure I’m playing on a char that I know well to the new areas to solo play. Professions I don’t play often and don’t know well, I only take there if I have at least one other person with me. Deliberately taking one of the squishest professions, one that you’re not comfortable with, into the hardest areas is a choice. You could be taking your main and enjoying it much more. Then you take the ones you’re weaker on later when you know the area better.

Still all levels of players should be able to play a game they paid for if not the game is not working correctly..

It’s not the level of player here. It was your choice to make it harder on yourself by choosing a profession you don’t know well and a build you got somewhere else instead of your main.

I already tried my Ranger, Engineer and Elementalist before my Thief, they did not have green jewelry, everything exotic and still got wiped so many times in HoT..

My Thief was a last ditched effort because i read daredevil is a good dps pve class but it still died so easy.. Its just not fun anymore in the game.

Nevermind i’ve given up on Gw2, not worth the frustration..

The offer is still on the table, Dante. I even added you to my contact list after my initial response, which you may have missed as you seemed occupied with responding to the people trolling you. But I have yet to see you actually logged into the game at any time since.

So, if you’d like to try and work through this some time, just hit me up in game. We can take a look at your build and see if there are any obvious issues there. I can also demonstrate some strategies that will make short work of those frogs and other nasties you’ve been having trouble with.

I’m pretty new so I don’t have a great deal of experience with the other classes you play, but if you want to know how to succeed with thief in the jungle, I feel I have a very good grasp of that.

Danicus.4952:

I am an experienced casual player. 13K APs, 950 WVW rank, Closer to the Stars, done dungeons, raids, crafted ascended gear etc, etc. I’ve read quite a few honest postings about frustrations with HOT, and the trend in responses has been to respond to the OP by saying “learn to play better” or “I did it just fine, there is something the matter with you.”

I personally find HOT uninviting as a solo PVE player. It lacks the difficulty progression structure present in most games. It demands group (zerg) participation for individual rewards. It requires the development of mobility masteries to effectively access map areas efficiently. It loads the player with an ocean of inventory filling currencies or keys. It creates an unprecedented level of grind for goals.

I’ve completed the HOT personal story with a rev, and moved partially through with 4 other characters.

I’ve completed the new specializations with all classes. I find them fun and interesting additions to the game (imo the best part of the expansion) – getting HOT HPs pretty annoying of course. I must admit, I turned in some WVW credits to unlock some HOT HPs.

I was really looking forward to HOT, but am truly ambivalent about the expansion maps at this point – even with the nerfs.

I find myself now checking in, hitting the daily and getting out.

Pretty sure I won’t buy another GW2 expansion – especially if it follows the map design and skill progression structure HOT model. It’s a shame – I am a long time dedicated GW player – sorry to see the franchise pick this path.

My core point is, telling an OP that is frustrated with HOT to “L2P” or “I did it, what is the matter with you?” is missing the mark. There are authentic design departures here, and they are not friendly to the casual player.

First of all, I’m not a casual and I don’t want HOT to be nerfed at all. I want nothing nerfed. I like hard content.

However, it kittenes me off when I hear/read someone say something in the lines of " I could do it, what is your excuse to not do it".

This mentality is pure kitten. If you reason that way you are responsible for tons of things that make the world a kittenty place. Everybody is different and has a different story and context. Do not EVER try to put yourself as the standard others should measure up to. If others find hard what you think is easy there is a reason for it and it’s seldom them being lazy but you/us being ignorant of others.

I love HoT and it’s the best thing to happen to GW2 in a long, long time!

Please do not listen to people complaining about it, you did a good job and a vast amount of us thoroughly enjoy the challenge and design of the maps, hero point system, meta system, and everything about HoT.

I cannot wait for more expansions if they bring content like HoT’s to us!

Danicus.4952:

An interesting point about casuals and not finding the game enjoyable. I would like to reiterate why I suggest why HOT may not be enjoyable for the casual player. Player skill progression is usually tied to built in in-game learning experiences. In my opinion, well-designed in-game learning experiences follow somewhat of a time-linear scaled set of challenges. A casual player (in my opinion), follows this sequence without excessive frustration. The ideal is a sort of Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi flow state where consciousness of time playing disappears. I do not believe HOT scales in this way. Yes it is possible, with time effort and motivation to overcome these challenges, but is that what the designers truly intended? I want to thank the posters on this thread for such positive and sincere dialogue.

I mean no disrespect, but I’m going to go out on a limb here and ask if the 950 WvW rank you have was earned primarily in EoTM? The reason I ask is that, after having read a multitude of threads on this same topic, it seems to me that the majority of the people who are currently vocal about hating the difficulty of HoT pve content (post-April patch, and barring things like high ping or physical disabilities) don’t have a good grasp of the profession they’re playing the content with, likely due to spending much of their time zerging or being carried in the core game. Tbh, leveling alts via zerging in EoTM was my own problem and it was likely the reason that I found the HoT content overwhelming at first. But I stuck with it and adapted, and now I find that I really enjoy the jungle and have acquired a much better understanding of the various professions.

Vayne makes a very important (and accurate, imo) point. The game has been gradually getting more difficult in the level 80 pve maps. Since you have the “Closer to the Stars” title, you are obviously a veteran of the first game, so I’d like to toss out some food for thought. They used this exact model in GW1 when they released Eye of the North. Unlike GW:Factions and GW:Nightfall, which were stand alone campaigns with their own starter areas and gradual difficulty progression, GW:EoTN was an expansion that was designed entirely for max level characters. There was no gradual difficulty progression. Certain skills were gated behind reputation with the various factions (norn, asura, etc), which was basically like the current mastery system. It was presumed that by the time you were able to play EoTN you were max level and had learned how to play your chosen class. There was no more hand holding in EoTN- you went to the shiverpeaks and it was sink or swim. HoT is (with the exception of map mechanics and the lack of the option to take along a party of heroes to hold you up) basically like that. In a big picture perspective, core Tyria is the training ground, the gradual difficulty progression, and HoT is the proving ground. Of course, I have no idea how you felt about the EoTN expansion – you may well have disliked that one too, for much the same reasons as you stated above regarding HoT. I’m just making the assumption that you didn’t, since you stuck with it at least long enough to complete the Hall of Monuments up to Closer to the Stars. And if you didn’t hate the similar model in the previous game, perhaps the reason you dislike HoT is actually something different than what you have articulated here?

I’m curious how much time you have spent playing the HoT maps? Perhaps you just don’t enjoy the jungle, and that’s ok. The multi layered maps take some getting used to. It grew on me after the April changes, but I think that all content doesn’t have to appeal to everyone. I do think the difficulty increase over core maps was needed, though. I myself have never set foot in raids or “real” WvW because I’m in a small guild and those things haven’t been a priority for me in my limited playtime (real life makes me the very definition of casual, lol), but I can see the value in that content for people who enjoy it, and wouldn’t want to see it nerfed because it wasn’t exactly what I thought it should be.

^^ I definitely think that the “grind to 80” mindset is a bit of an issue. I go over this in a bit more detail elsewhere but a big problem with Anets tutorial system (or lack of one) is that if the player has any experience or even a vague notion of what other MMOs do, then they have nearly a dozen reasons to turn off their brain.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

HOW OTHER MMOS RUIN IT or THE ENDLESS EXCUSE BRIGADE

A lot of people now know that the new traitwork has made alt leveling a painful, unrewarding slog for the first 80 levels or so. Especially in the pre-30 era. Anet has explained why they did this. Their idea is that, players were too busy being distracted by traits, so if we don’t give players traits, they’ll spend that whole time learning how to pull off epic combos with their skills. AKA: selective pressure is boredom.

Now, this doesn’t work in part because of human nature’s tendency to take the path of least resistance, but this is compounded by the expectations that…
<.<
>.>
… other MMOs have instilled upon the gaming community. I’m talking, of course, about things such as the following:

#1: A 3 skill repetition that takes up the entirety of someone’s action chain.
#2: 80% of the game is end game, and leveling is just a time tax to get to the fun part.
#3: Classes will naturally level themselves out to fulfill their hard role (part of the 14/14/14/14/14/14 issue)
#4: All non DPS dedicated specs being a boring trudge through the muddy terrain that is conventional leveling.
#5: Terrible random number generators that range from 0 to maximum damage (in the hundreds).
#6: Endless gear tiers that trivialize content while simultaneously making things too hard to go forward.
#7: Cheaters…
#8: You’re supposed to face tank unavoidable deeps while other people support you.
#9: Maximum damage is achievable at distances, since melee fighting is reserved for other classes.

This is important, because if people come to GW2 with the experience or expectations of other MMOs in mind, then they will have over half a dozen legitimate excuses to shut their mind down, and just signet warrior through the entire leveling experience. Remember: the inspiration for players to learn in this game is boredom, so if they have any mindset other than “I should use this terrible time to learn everything about the class, including research other classes and how all the game mechanics work on different websites”, then they aren’t going to get anything out of it.

You’d be amazed how many people can play GW2 while simultaneously watching the bachelorette. They’ll grind themselves to level 80, and of course there isn’t anything in the overworld to discourage being a signet warrior, so they’ll never change. In order for a player to realize that active defense is king, you’ll have to fight against every single one of these preconceived notions about MMOs. Otherwise, players will learn nothing.

Great questions annabelle! I was thrilled with EoTN. Vanquished every map multiple times over on all classes. I do feel that Prophecies, Factions, and Nightfall did offer preparation for EoTN, but I do think there was some ramp up even within EoTN. Certainly between basic, HM and dungeons there were built in skill training transitions. Yes, it is true, a great deal of my wvw rank was earned in eotm, but I do spend a fair amount of time in regular wvw maps as well. TS and equivalent comm systems are super supportive ubiquitous learning tools in wvw, so I don’t think its truly fair to compare vanilla HOT (no comms) to wvw. I did mention that I completed the HOT ps with one character, and elite specs with all classes. It is true that I burned through the HOT maps to snag hps for those characters initially, and only occasionally stuck around for full meta cycles. Since then I have completed meta cycles on all maps in HOT.

You do make a point that Eye of the North was the 3rd expansion in the series, so that players truly did have an ocean of basic PVE opportunities before the final installment. It is fair to say that HOT is not equivalent to Factions or Nightfall or even EotN.

In my opinion, with HOT GW2 did not develop in the same way that GW developed. The design structure, maps, masteries, currencies, keys, grind, mobility, HPs, mob density, etc. etc. are very large leaps. It is fair to say that I find pathing in HOT to be the most annoying feature of the expansion. I have unlocked most mobility masteries, but find that whole traveling to play dimension to the expansion to be a barrier to the core game play which is combat. Gliding in Tyria is great – I get to the fight faster. Gliding in HOT is a requirement – to do pretty much anything. Anet could have ramped up these features within the expansion, and chose not to. In my opinion, that makes HOT less than inviting.

On a side note – I’ve been reflecting on what people have posted here and I finished DS a couple of times over the last few days. The loot was obscene. The game play is very straightforward. So within that event structure, I found the experience very positive. I just wish the process of getting there wasn’t such a PITA.

Shiyo.3578:

I cannot wait for more expansions if they bring content like HoT’s to us!

I’m pretty sure you won’t be seeing that.

To answer the question in the thread title, i dont want to. I played GW2 because it wasnt WoW or wildstar. We got rep grinds (masteries) and raids and hard open world content. So why dont i put my nose to the grindstone and do it? Because those are the exact reasons i left other games. And guess what? its 2016, a new game comes out literally (hate using that but its true here) every day. I cant keep up with awesome news games so my question, is why bother doing something i dont enjoy when there are so many options? Gw2 wants to go this route, more power to them, ill keep my eye on the forums while playing other games. Me, the defenders of the new direction, really dont lose anything. Anet does though. Money.

@Blood Red Arachnid – I absolutely agree. I am probably what would be considered an “okay” player. I try to pull my own weight, I’m certainly not overly good and far from great, in part due to the lack of time I have to devote to it, but I can say from experience that changing my mindset in order to adapt to the increased challenges in HoT has been both beneficial (my situational awareness has improved greatly, lol) and satisfying.

@Danicus – I get what you are saying regarding my analogy, even though I must politely disagree with some of it. I think that EoTN was the only expansion for the first game, and in that regard is entirely analogous to HoT in conception. Nightfall and Factions were stand alone games that didn’t require you to own anything else, unlike EoTN (and unlike HoT). I would also disagree that there was a skill progression (e.g., less difficulty —→ greater difficulty) in EoTN’s general pve content. It was a collection of zones for max level characters, and the difficulty was more or less the same throughout EoTN (excluding, of course, some mobs being more dangerous than others and of which the same can be said of the mobs in HoT as well), and mobs generally hit much harder than those in the core campaigns. Again, same concept. The harder challenges in EoTN that you mentioned (dungeons, HM) were optional challenges aimed at players looking for increased difficulty, and in this respect (in my opinion) could be roughly compared to the option to raid in HoT.

What I’m having trouble understanding is why you feel that a new mechanic (gliding, mushrooms, etc) is a barrier to gameplay? Is it because you have to progress the ability? Tbh, I feel like gliding has opened up an entirely different way to experience the HoT zones (and while I do not have unlimited gliding unlocked yet, I am making steady progress on getting it!) and is a fantastic addition. I guess what’s causing my disconnect here is that you say you mainly hate traveling to get to the fight in HoT, but at the same time you also say that you enjoy WvW, which has no gliding, few waypoints, requires fighting or sneaking past things that want to kill you, and requires traveling to get to pretty much any fight. I’m just not following what you’re getting at I suppose.

annabelle.5876:

I guess what’s causing my disconnect here is that you say you mainly hate traveling to get to the fight in HoT, but at the same time you also say that you enjoy WvW, which has no gliding, few waypoints, requires fighting or sneaking past things that want to kill you, and requires traveling to get to pretty much any fight. I’m just not following what you’re getting at I suppose.

WvW travel is exceedingly straightforward in comparison to HoT. The learning time for getting around in HoT zones is greater than the WvW zones by a large factor. Even the Desert Borderlands, which a lot of people disliked, were straightforward once one explored them a tiny bit. One time was enough for me to know where everything was, and EB/Alpine Borderlands are practically second nature after one run through.

HoT is filled with “can’t get there from here’s” or “can only get there from here by some convoluted combination of platforming coupled with starting off in the wrong direction.” One can start off from a way point, go in different directions and still end up in the same place and with being unable to get where you want to be. I’m sure that players who’ve been playing it since release learned their way around sooner or later. However, for me (and maybe for Danicus) the zones are a pain in the kitten.

IndigoSundown.5419:

WvW travel is exceedingly straightforward in comparison to HoT. The learning time for getting around in HoT zones is greater than the WvW zones by a large factor. Even the Desert Borderlands, which a lot of people disliked, were straightforward once one explored them a tiny bit. One time was enough for me to know where everything was, and EB/Alpine Borderlands are practically second nature after one run through.

I see your point, thanks. So basically it’s just a matter of preferring a simpler, more linear map, right? I’m not sure I agree that the HoT maps being less straightforward is necessarily a design flaw as has been suggested by the OP, though. Just because something might take longer than one run through to learn doesn’t make it inherently bad, in my opinion. Player preferences will vary, and that’s perfectly okay. I personally found the complex aspects (non-linear movement, layered map levels, etc.) of the, for instance, Verdant Brink map to add more depth and variety than the maps in the core game, which I appreciated. I can even appreciate the design of Tangled Depths, though I admittedly get confused and lost there quite often. Granted, there is a slightly higher learning curve involved in navigating the new zones, and not everyone will like that, I’ll agree with you there.

I’ve always mostly been an spvp player but lately I have been interested in doing more pve content. Here are my issues with HoT:

• Back peddling maps to unlock specializations on alts gets mind nulling. I know that any game should require work to acces new things. Even GW1 was like this to unlock new skills. HOWEVER GW1 at least offered a way to immediately unlock skills so that you didn’t need to do this if you didn’t want to. Such as “purchase all core skills unlocked” “purchase all eotn skills unlocked” stuff like that. GW2 needs a similar option, especially for us older players who have much less stamina to back peddle content than the younger players.
• Verdant Brink is fun to play through each and every time I roam in it. It’s a great map, it really is. Auric Basin isn’t bad, I wish it had more glider play in it but it’s not annoying in any way. Tangled Depths and Dragon’s Stand however… are just annoying and obnoxious in every way. The maps are too complex and in no way friendly to back peddle. They feel more like the water temple in Legend of Zelda than maps in an mmorpg designed for meta events.
• Masteries – Everything about gliding is awesome and fun. It doesn’t feel grindy while working towards glider masteries because they all add something new and active that is fun. The other masteries required for HoT content are not “fun” to use they are just limitations that deny you access to certain portions of maps or story completions. This equates to a really bad and slow grind to unlock something that isnt’ even fun to use. In future expansions, make sure that masteries are active fun things to use, like gliding.
• Skipping cut scenes – kitten let us skip cut scenes after initial completion.

Other than that, I think the HoT expansion was all good content.
Only other gripes I have all are within spvp balance.

I would like to add however, that the people claiming HoT content is “difficult” need to understand the difference between “difficult” and “painful” content. I don’t feel the HoT content is too difficult. I feel that Tangled Depths and Dragon’s Stand particularly are painful to play through. That has nothing to do with how difficult it is.

Daroon.1736:

It’s quite simple – If the maps were full, no one would need to play ‘solo’ and virtually all of the HOT Unplayable threads would vanish.

I mostly agree with the OP and Daroon is right about the full maps. I disliked HoT so much I dropped the game for some time. Since returning, I have had some enjoyable moments in the HoT zones when I happen upon busy maps but otherwise I still mostly stay out of them. If it was more likely that I’d find active maps, I’d certainly return more often.

AliamRationem.5172:

Dante.1508:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Dante.1508:

General Health.9678:

You know you can just run past them, right?

I tried too 10 times.. its a vine very little room, dead in seconds..

So you fought the same enemy ten times, but didn’t try to use stealth to simply run past them, or smokescreen to block their projectiles, or dagger storm to reflect the projectiles back to kill them, or basilisk venom to disable an burst one of them down, or double dodges/vault their arrow volley to close in and kill them, or scorpion to pull separate and kill them?

Yes i tried all sorts of combos, most skills completely do no damage to them. its a vine i had very little room to fight them.. in the end i gave up after just trying to run past them again and again..

I have no idea what a F skill is.. sure i suck, daredevil is not my main to be honest i don’t know much about Daredevil i got a build on metabuilds and ran with it..

Still all levels of players should be able to play a game they paid for if not the game is not working correctly..

Your F skills are your profession specific mechanic skills, such as steal on thief, the pet controls on ranger, the shatter skills on Mesmer, attunements on Eles and so on. Perhaps you put them on other keys a long time ago and forgot? But that’s what they were originally bound to and are called.

No offense and all, but if you know you’re not good at the game why bring in an alt you don’t know well with a build you got off metabuilds instead of your main to an area that’s been known from before the expansion launched to be harder than the vanilla maps. Why didn’t you play the professions you know and are comfortable on? The thief is high damage but squishy. A high stakes win or lose, melee profession that depends on its steals, dodges, and invisibility to win a fight. It’s not really what you should be playing on if you’re already struggling.

I’m not good either and I make sure I’m playing on a char that I know well to the new areas to solo play. Professions I don’t play often and don’t know well, I only take there if I have at least one other person with me. Deliberately taking one of the squishest professions, one that you’re not comfortable with, into the hardest areas is a choice. You could be taking your main and enjoying it much more. Then you take the ones you’re weaker on later when you know the area better.

Still all levels of players should be able to play a game they paid for if not the game is not working correctly..

It’s not the level of player here. It was your choice to make it harder on yourself by choosing a profession you don’t know well and a build you got somewhere else instead of your main.

I already tried my Ranger, Engineer and Elementalist before my Thief, they did not have green jewelry, everything exotic and still got wiped so many times in HoT..

My Thief was a last ditched effort because i read daredevil is a good dps pve class but it still died so easy.. Its just not fun anymore in the game.

Nevermind i’ve given up on Gw2, not worth the frustration..

The offer is still on the table, Dante. I even added you to my contact list after my initial response, which you may have missed as you seemed occupied with responding to the people trolling you. But I have yet to see you actually logged into the game at any time since.

So, if you’d like to try and work through this some time, just hit me up in game. We can take a look at your build and see if there are any obvious issues there. I can also demonstrate some strategies that will make short work of those frogs and other nasties you’ve been having trouble with.

I’m pretty new so I don’t have a great deal of experience with the other classes you play, but if you want to know how to succeed with thief in the jungle, I feel I have a very good grasp of that.

Thank you very much for the offer its very kind, but i haven’t logged in since honestly, i moved on to less tedious games.

I still hang around here mostly to see what added in the shop and hoping some day they make HoT more casual friendly, i understand that is not a popular thing on the forum but many guildies agreed with me on HoT before i left, some actively avoid the place permanently so they said..

Again thank you for the kind favor, if i return i’ll hit you up some time but for now i’d rather not get frustrated gaming.

I cant because i fall asleep while on pve…. easy and boring.

I have said this before but believe higher level PvE areas should train players to become better at PvP. This is like training to play chess against a computer.

AI should become increasingly more complex, reactive, and proactive against players; i.e., corrupting boons, breaking stuns, interrupting big damage or heal skills, dodging, targeting real threats, protecting allies, etc.

Aeolus.3615:

I cant because i fall asleep while on pve…. easy and boring.

Then don’t do PvE?

Anchoku.8142:

I have said this before but believe higher level PvE areas should train players to become better at PvP. This is like training to play chess against a computer.

AI should become increasingly more complex, reactive, and proactive against players; i.e., corrupting boons, breaking stuns, interrupting big damage or heal skills, dodging, targeting real threats, protecting allies, etc.

There are a group of pve players that hate pvp of all types with a passion, many reasons for it but making pve customers do pvp mechanics would be a very very bad idea.

I personally hate pvp in every way shape and form, i’ve spvped like 5 times since guildwars released..

Dante.1508:

Anchoku.8142:

I have said this before but believe higher level PvE areas should train players to become better at PvP. This is like training to play chess against a computer.

AI should become increasingly more complex, reactive, and proactive against players; i.e., corrupting boons, breaking stuns, interrupting big damage or heal skills, dodging, targeting real threats, protecting allies, etc.

There are a group of pve players that hate pvp of all types with a passion, many reasons for it but making pve customers do pvp mechanics would be a very very bad idea.

I personally hate pvp in every way shape and form, i’ve spvped like 5 times since guildwars released..

Anchoku’s only saying the NPC’s behavior should more closely mimic a real player’s. That’s not really that bad of an idea as long as the game gets better at gradually increasing the difficulty. Core Tyria to HoT Tyria didn’t do such a good job of that, the long time between the release of new content did play a role in that however.

However, the problem becomes making sure the servers are more stable and the game has more tolerance of lag. The more player like AI becomes the more high ping and high lag affect the success of players. And the Oceanic and Asian players playing on EU and NA servers already suffer from the effects of high ping and high lag due to how far away they are from the servers.

I found an HP train in LFG, but got absolutely slaughtered just trying to reach them. huge sigh

Redfeather.6401:

I found an HP train in LFG, but got absolutely slaughtered just trying to reach them. huge sigh

yep, this was one of the most annoying things in hot
did you learn anything from it?

battledrone.8315:

Redfeather.6401:

I found an HP train in LFG, but got absolutely slaughtered just trying to reach them. huge sigh

yep, this was one of the most annoying things in hot
did you learn anything from it?

I learned to join the squad and use teleport to a friend. It’s a worst case scenario but it works.

If you want to ease into HoT, try using a Ranger, Necromancer with minions, Engineer with turrets, etc. Stick to one map until you feel comfortable enough to play without pets.

Exotic gear is more than sufficient and the benefit of ascended is too small for me to notice. Watch what the different mob types do and work on learning the convoluted map.

There is no need to push yourself. If you die a few times trying to get a hero point, leave come back later. Perhaps change your build and tactics. Maybe some one else will also need it and you can work together. This sort of thing takes patients. I have died many times trying to solo everything. Dying is frustrating but carries very little penalty in Gw2. Take your time doing the same events in an area over and over.

Remember, it is not a grind if you are learning which mobs have which skills, which are most damaging, how to counter them, and what equipment give you the best value.

Seera understood my previous post. PvE should be training players in skills that are needed in all game modes, including PvP and WvW, but it should do that gradually. Arenanet can do it better but HoT does introduce more aggressive mobs. Orr was reworked some time ago and world bosses have been getting makeovers.

My own preference is for mobs in sub-80 areas to receive AI updates that do not make them more difficult but more like beginning PvP players making mistakes you can learn to capitalize on.

HoT is expansion. It’ needs to be more than just a faceroll like rest of game is. If you expect to install game, make instant 80 and enter Maguuma hoping for easy loot then you’re doing it wrong.
If you have some characters already at 80 with decent gear, and you still can’t make a step in Maguuma without dying then maybe the problem is in your gameplay.
People keep bringing up the whole ‘issue’ that content isn’t soloable – it’s MMO and some things should be impossible to solo (true, they gone overboard with too many meta events but that’s for another discussion). If everything is soloable then might as well make this game single player.

The problem with the group nature of HoT metas is that the solution (work-around?) of taxiing is at least half of the reason why there are mostly empty zones. This could be solved by better scaling, but apparently ANet doesn’t want to or can’t scale HOT events to be done by smaller numbers of players.

I was just n TD mining for the daily and came across a “defend a cannon (or some such) event.” As I came on scene, there was one other player. One. The Chak "rushed the cannon. There were somewhere between 20 and 40 of them, and about half were Vets. This is only going to be fun if you have the numbers to match the mobs.

Two thumbs down, until Anet gets its kitten together and either fixes taxiing/mega-server or puts in scaling so that more than the people that manage to get into the one favored map can complete this crap.

Hi Martin, my point isn’t about solo play it’s about accessibility for “casual” players. I understand that casual means many things to many people, so I won’t attempt to force a definition for that term. I can say that I am experienced, and that I have been successful within HOT, but that I find the gameplay there uninviting because of map structure, locked wps, mobility mastery requirements, hp design features, keys/currencies, grinds, and dedicated meta cycle structures, etc. etc. I am suggesting that these design choices deter players, and that telling a player to “get good” isn’t the core issue around fun gameplay. I’ve recommended that building in better learning experiences, and evolving map complexities through the maps series may help.

Challenging enemies are fine, but I find my mindset to be, “I’m going to use these mobility masteries and my builds to avoid all the fighting so I can get to my destination where I can get to the fight that matters to me” in HOT. There is something inherently in error about that mindset in my opinion. Perhaps I’m flawed in thinking that the journey and the destination should be “fun”.

Clearly for many people, mushrooming , glding, updrafting, Nurloching, avoiding mobs, etc. etc. is fun. For me, it fundamentally alters the character of the game enough so that it’s not my cup of tea. I still play a little. I really want a challenging expansion built on good traditional map and combat skill progression design elements, but I am put off with this direction.

IndigoSundown.5419:

The problem with the group nature of HoT metas is that the solution (work-around?) of taxiing is at least half of the reason why there are mostly empty zones. This could be solved by better scaling, but apparently ANet doesn’t want to or can’t scale HOT events to be done by smaller numbers of players.

I was just n TD mining for the daily and came across a “defend a cannon (or some such) event.” As I came on scene, there was one other player. One. The Chak "rushed the cannon. There were somewhere between 20 and 40 of them, and about half were Vets. This is only going to be fun if you have the numbers to match the mobs.

Two thumbs down, until Anet gets its kitten together and either fixes taxiing/mega-server or puts in scaling so that more than the people that manage to get into the one favored map can complete this crap.

Actually, the mob of chak that rush the cannon take their sweet time getting there and are single-minded (they don’t fight back). You can solo that part of the event. I did it yesterday on a map that wasn’t doing the meta.

What you can’t solo or do in small groups are the simultaneous events that determine whether or not you’re able to get the chak gerent to surface for the next phase. So, you could kill the mob of chak by yourself, but you’d need others to stomp mushrooms, break eggs, etc. or you still fail the event and the chak gerent destroys the cannon.

I think this problem would be better solved by finding a way to ensure that maps fill quickly instead of so many instances existing apparently with too few players. Although
I don’t disagree that better scaling could also help.

I just feel that the design of the boss events in HoT is such that scaling alone won’t change much. Even if each piece of the event required only 1 player minimum, you’d still need what? 8 players to cover everything? And good luck if any one of those players dies and has to get back in time to cover their part of the event! It’s clearly designed for maps full of players who are mostly participating. If you look at all of the other boss events, they’re all like this.

We just need the megaserver system to provide those conditions and I expect HoT will suddenly be a lot more enjoyable for many who currently aren’t enjoying themselves.

Danicus.4952:

Hi Martin, my point isn’t about solo play it’s about accessibility for “casual” players. I understand that casual means many things to many people, so I won’t attempt to force a definition for that term. I can say that I am experienced, and that I have been successful within HOT, but that I find the gameplay there uninviting because of map structure, locked wps, mobility mastery requirements, hp design features, keys/currencies, grinds, and dedicated meta cycle structures, etc. etc. I am suggesting that these design choices deter players, and that telling a player to “get good” isn’t the core issue around fun gameplay. I’ve recommended that building in better learning experiences, and evolving map complexities through the maps series may help.

Challenging enemies are fine, but I find my mindset to be, “I’m going to use these mobility masteries and my builds to avoid all the fighting so I can get to my destination where I can get to the fight that matters to me” in HOT. There is something inherently in error about that mindset in my opinion. Perhaps I’m flawed in thinking that the journey and the destination should be “fun”.

Clearly for many people, mushrooming , glding, updrafting, Nurloching, avoiding mobs, etc. etc. is fun. For me, it fundamentally alters the character of the game enough so that it’s not my cup of tea. I still play a little. I really want a challenging expansion built on good traditional map and combat skill progression design elements, but I am put off with this direction.

Until you define what you mean by casual players with regards to your post, you’re going to have to deal with what definitions other players have for the word casual. You’re claiming that HoT is not accesible to casual players. Yet you aren’t defining what you mean by casual players.

Johnny may see the casual player as someone who doesn’t spend more than a few hours each week playing the game. Even if those hours are spent doing raids with the goal of doing it as fast as possible. Where the few minutes he gets where he can’t load the game are sometimes spent trying to hammer out what build is the best. Or devising strategies for the next try.

Billy may see the casual as someone who isn’t trying to be the best at the game. Just someone looking to have fun. They’ll accept any build as long as they survive in it and they can get gold in events they participate in most of the time.

You’re best off giving your definition of the word casual so that someone isn’t applying their definition of the word to your solution. Most players are reasonable enough to take your definition of the word casual for the matter of discussion on whether or not some content is accessible to them or not.