Guild Wars 2

Ah, here’s Vayne, ArenaNet stalwart defender to the rescue. FYI Im not really attacking them this time, no need to jump the gun

PS: we can complain or we can praise them. The bottom line will become clear once the money have spoken.

VaLee.5102:

Been in Queensdale last night. Ran around for about 20mins. Saw 3 players.
A year ago around the same time I would’ve seen around 20-30 players.
Might’ve been a new map, might have not.

Red herring. The fact that Queensdale maps are emptier has a lot less to do with HoT than with the change (which was pre HoT) of removing the Chmapions from that map thus removing the champ trains. Try again.

On topic (just going to run down some points which should make people think, to lazy to go through all of this in yet another doom and gloom thread. Wish people would finally leave if they are unhappy with the game or take that long overdue break):

- GW2 endgame content was state for a very long time pre HoT. The only reason disguising this was the pre HoT hype which started over 6 months before HoT released. I remember clearly how a LOT of people were basically just tagging along and farming as much as they could in preperation of HoT.

- HoT expansion isself spiked player activity hard. Many players came back to try out the game, the f2p move shortly earlier got a lot of player attention, it seems reasonable to expect a good portion of these players to not stick with the game due to whatever reasons

- HoT itsself is grindy. A lot of players (myself included) spent hundreds of hours on HoT content so far. We are basically in the same state of the game we were pre HoT without the hype and attention steal from an upcimming expansion. Game burnout will occure, especially with the younger generation of players attentionspan. Who can blame players though, the MMO genere is suffering in general and there are a lot of good tripple A and indie titles around that are just fun.

- WvW is worse off. No denying this. Reason in my opinion is a mixture of neglect, new map design (partly due to people hating change, partly due to convoluted design) and a huge post HoT player drain towards the PvE game which WvW has not recovered from (and might not in the current state as far as we know).

- spvp I don’t want to comment to much on. Seems it’s arenanets current baby and I’ve not spvped enough lately to give a ra…… Let’s just say it does not agree with everyone and balance is all over the place.

- megaservers were ingame pre HoT. They work very well in old Tyria PvE content. Their huge flaws come to shine in the HoT participation mechanic. The big mishmash of servers also hurts WvW since even less of a server bond is created and community events are near non existant. This is not a HoT only problem (implementation was earlier), but HoT content suffers more I believe.

Anyone running around screeming HoT is to blame for all of these factors is simply taking a very complex problem and generalising it.

pepsis.5384:

Ah, here’s Vayne, ArenaNet stalwart defender to the rescue. FYI Im not really attacking them this time, no need to jump the gun

I’m not defending Anet, I’m asking a couple of valid questions. You made a statement that losing customers is NEVER a good thing, while neglecting to ask if having the game too easy didn’t lose some customers, which would then not be a good thing.

There’s no defense to Anet here nor did I think you were attacking Anet. But I did think that there was a logical fallacy about losing customers never being a good thing. I’ve been in businesses before that made decisions were guaranteed to lose customers and it turned out to be a good thing. I really does depend on number and specific customer.

Sometimes change isn’t accepted by people even if it’s necessary. But that isn’t necessarily a defense of Anet, isn’kitten It’s an opinion stated about some assumptions you’ve made.

P.S. On the issue of money I wholeheartedly agree. I’ve been saying that across many threads for a long time. In six months or so, we’ll get a better idea of how these changes have affected the bottom line. Until then it’s all just guesses.

Vayne.8563:

We definitely lost some people to the game being too easy before the expansion. I can’t say how many but I know people who left due to lack of challenge in the game. Some of them have come back.

Anyone truthfully leaving because of the game being too easy, and coming back for HoT, will be gone again soon because of the severely lacking amount of content in HoT. If HoT is the only content in this game you appreciate, you still have next to nothing.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

We definitely lost some people to the game being too easy before the expansion. I can’t say how many but I know people who left due to lack of challenge in the game. Some of them have come back.

Anyone truthfully leaving because of the game being too easy, and coming back for HoT, will be gone again soon because of the severely lacking amount of content in HoT. If HoT is the only content in this game you appreciate, you still have next to nothing.

^This pretty much. Someone wants to live by the clock, then taxi around the instances just so he can participate in some boring meta event be my guest. That kitten is simply not for me.

pepsis.5384:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

We definitely lost some people to the game being too easy before the expansion. I can’t say how many but I know people who left due to lack of challenge in the game. Some of them have come back.

Anyone truthfully leaving because of the game being too easy, and coming back for HoT, will be gone again soon because of the severely lacking amount of content in HoT. If HoT is the only content in this game you appreciate, you still have next to nothing.

^This pretty much. Someone wants to live by the clock, then taxi around the instances just so he can participate in some boring meta event be my guest. That kitten is simply not for me.

See to me it’s a mixed bag. I don’t like the timers, but I do like the metas, particularly VB and DS. I don’t personally find them boring. If you do, that’s okay but I’m sure I’m not the only guy who likes some of the metas. In fact, I seem to remember some posts from other people who do. So whether or not someone comes back and stays depends a lot more on their play style and what they enjoy than anything else.

I’ve always preferred open world content to instanced content. The dungeon nerf, which kittened off a considerable number of people, didn’t hurt me. Again, I can’t be the only guy…and no one knows the numbers, probably not even Anet.

After playing since head start, I left the game about 2 weeks after HoT release and happily playing other games.

Widowmaker Z.4802:

After playing since head start, I left the game about 2 weeks after HoT release and happily playing other games.

Same.

Finished Nevermore a couple weeks ago and don’t even login anymore for the daily rewards. Overall I have been a big fan of GW2 since BWE2, but it’s clear now this esport/spvp focus has taken this game in a direction I no longer want to be a part of.

“Many people left because of HoT” idk, I do know the last few weeks I was playing the 490 member guild I’ve been with only has an average of 30 players on at any given time.

The game population indeed noticeably shrunk, I know it because I run a large guild.

The number of people we recruit is much lesser than pre-hot.
Though the launch of HOT did generate enough hype, but remember, hype is still hype, it will not last.

There were many complains, incomplete raid, incomplete guild hall, incomplete scribe, incomplete wvw (they delayed the wvw core changes which promised to fix the population), buggy stories. Furthermore, there are new games, this give the complainers good number for reasons to stop gw2 and move on.

Naturally, those who just casually playing the game, they will play hot and disappear few weeks after. Those are the kind of casuals that vastly populated this game. Luckily for anet, the hot was accompanied with halloween, wintersday and PvP, thus the people stayed a bit longer. Now, with all those events passed, lesser people are in the game.

All in all, gw2 lost a number of veterans and the newcomers will not be able to fill those gap. Remember, among the newcomers, there are also people who play casually and disappear after a few weeks.

Dvantaman.3617:

2 Kinds of players atm.

1. Complaining in forums about HoT sucks etc.
2.Playing and enjoying the game right now.

You’re missing one there sport: the players who simply left.

Vix.6730:

Dvantaman.3617:

2 Kinds of players atm.

1. Complaining in forums about HoT sucks etc.
2.Playing and enjoying the game right now.

You’re missing one there sport: the players who simply left.

And to expand on that, games like this end up becoming the basis on which gamers develop relationships with other gamers. Those relationships provide a powerful reason to keep playing the game, even if you have begun to dislike and not enjoy it’s content.

MadRabbit.3179:

Vix.6730:

Dvantaman.3617:

2 Kinds of players atm.

1. Complaining in forums about HoT sucks etc.
2.Playing and enjoying the game right now.

You’re missing one there sport: the players who simply left.

And to expand on that, games like this end up becoming the basis on which gamers develop relationships with other gamers. Those relationships provide a powerful reason to keep playing the game, even if you have begun to dislike and not enjoy it’s content.

Yeah, that’s the fourth group Dvantaman didn’t mention. People that play the game, no longer necessarily enjoy it (or enjoy it far less than before), but just keep silent about it until the very moment they quit. The truth is, that majority of unhappy customers everywhere simply don’t complain. They just stop being customers once they become unhappy enough.

HoT was the last straw for me. it may seem like they added alot but at the same time its just mindless grind. and with them having most items locked in the gemstore (yes you can trade gold for gems) just doesnt seem worth playing. guild wars 1 did it right i think. loved that game 6-7 years but gw2 has died off way to soon for me.

MadRabbit.3179:

Vix.6730:

Dvantaman.3617:

2 Kinds of players atm.

1. Complaining in forums about HoT sucks etc.
2.Playing and enjoying the game right now.

You’re missing one there sport: the players who simply left.

And to expand on that, games like this end up becoming the basis on which gamers develop relationships with other gamers. Those relationships provide a powerful reason to keep playing the game, even if you have begun to dislike and not enjoy it’s content.

Funnily enough a large proportion of our guild no longer play GW2 (some did buy the expansion some didn’t) but we all still hangout on our TS on a daily basis playing other games.

RandomWolf.3986:

I’ve seen on countless sites that GW2 in on the top mostp layed MMOs out there, mostly in second or third place.

I also noticed a lot of the controversy caused by the expansion — more related about its content, features, perfomance and price.

I’m on a weak laptop, but I manage to run GW2 with average 25-30 fps in all of Tyria. Sadly my fps are below 10 in HoT, but I manage to play it if I select the lowest graphical setup available.

I don’t really like the new maps. They’re really hard and I feel lost. I prefer to play by myself and when I bring a friend we just rush it. I also have died a lot.

There are way too many threads complaining about GW2: HoT. Many people have left because of the expansion and another handful of players avoid the expansion like the plague. I also heard that the HoT sales were dreadful. Is this true?

Regardless of what other people claim to be fact as how many people have left, only ANet know how many people have “quit” the game. And there is no way they’ll tell anyone. We do how ever know that they have had problems with player retention. That’s why we had the “New player experience” force on us for the greater good, just glad I have enough Tombs of Knowledge to level 3 toons to 80 if I ever choose to buy more slots.

Right after HoT came out I & 5 of my friends quit playing. HoT was a huge let down for us. I just came back 3 days ago & am now liking HoT. Trying to get my 5 friends to try HoT again.

There is really no way for we players to know the answers to those questions. I’ve seen a lot more people on my friends list online since the expansion came out, but that’s just me.

BrotherBelial.3094:

RandomWolf.3986:

I’ve seen on countless sites that GW2 in on the top mostp layed MMOs out there, mostly in second or third place.

I also noticed a lot of the controversy caused by the expansion — more related about its content, features, perfomance and price.

I’m on a weak laptop, but I manage to run GW2 with average 25-30 fps in all of Tyria. Sadly my fps are below 10 in HoT, but I manage to play it if I select the lowest graphical setup available.

I don’t really like the new maps. They’re really hard and I feel lost. I prefer to play by myself and when I bring a friend we just rush it. I also have died a lot.

There are way too many threads complaining about GW2: HoT. Many people have left because of the expansion and another handful of players avoid the expansion like the plague. I also heard that the HoT sales were dreadful. Is this true?

Regardless of what other people claim to be fact as how many people have left, only ANet know how many people have “quit” the game. And there is no way they’ll tell anyone. We do how ever know that they have had problems with player retention. That’s why we had the “New player experience” force on us for the greater good, just glad I have enough Tombs of Knowledge to level 3 toons to 80 if I ever choose to buy more slots.

Sold 5m world-wide.
1.5m monthly paid actives (“Historically”).
Doubled player base, becoming 3.1m players after going F2P (2m F2P accounts).

Sicarius.4639:

BrotherBelial.3094:

RandomWolf.3986:

I’ve seen on countless sites that GW2 in on the top mostp layed MMOs out there, mostly in second or third place.

I also noticed a lot of the controversy caused by the expansion — more related about its content, features, perfomance and price.

I’m on a weak laptop, but I manage to run GW2 with average 25-30 fps in all of Tyria. Sadly my fps are below 10 in HoT, but I manage to play it if I select the lowest graphical setup available.

I don’t really like the new maps. They’re really hard and I feel lost. I prefer to play by myself and when I bring a friend we just rush it. I also have died a lot.

There are way too many threads complaining about GW2: HoT. Many people have left because of the expansion and another handful of players avoid the expansion like the plague. I also heard that the HoT sales were dreadful. Is this true?

Regardless of what other people claim to be fact as how many people have left, only ANet know how many people have “quit” the game. And there is no way they’ll tell anyone. We do how ever know that they have had problems with player retention. That’s why we had the “New player experience” force on us for the greater good, just glad I have enough Tombs of Knowledge to level 3 toons to 80 if I ever choose to buy more slots.

Sold 5m world-wide.
1.5m monthly paid actives (“Historically”).
Doubled player base, becoming 3.1m players after going F2P (2m F2P accounts).

Yes that’s great and all, but this is not showing how many people stopped playing because of HoT. Also just because someone is not logging on every month by no means they have stopped playing, I have a friend who plays but he works on oil rigs. So he’s not playing for 6 weeks at a time. Another friend is in the military. So he can go months with out playing. This is not out of choice, well it is in a way, but rather than they way there life is.

Now if ANet was to say X amount of players have not logged on since the second week of HoT launch, then we would get a good idea. Also how many of the 5M accounts are second accounts and RMT? Probably not that many but probably enough to not make it that there are 5M players.

I think the problem that this game has now, and I didn’t realize it till I posted in the other thread, is that there are very few short term goals for people who are at end game.

I haven’t left the game yet, but I feel myself burning out because everything I have left to do is just effort. Unfortunately life comes with other efforts that needs must come first, so when I sit down at the game and look at what I can do to progress it’s disheartening.

Well, I really do want to get a specialization weapon, but that means reclaimed plates for a plated weapon and beating dragon stand to talk to the merchant. Not going to happen tonight and probably not any time soon.

Work on a legendary? I have one started, a little, but I have to run dungeons like 9 times or PvP for rewards. Again. work for me, since I like neither.

And the current activity doesn’t really give me anything to do, besides die repeatedly to people who are better at Dragon Ball than I am.

I can log in. I can do a daily. I can farm my home instance and the guild hall. But what am I supposed to do after that? I can tell you right now, I won’t be raiding.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Sicarius.4639:

BrotherBelial.3094:

RandomWolf.3986:

I’ve seen on countless sites that GW2 in on the top mostp layed MMOs out there, mostly in second or third place.

I also noticed a lot of the controversy caused by the expansion — more related about its content, features, perfomance and price.

I’m on a weak laptop, but I manage to run GW2 with average 25-30 fps in all of Tyria. Sadly my fps are below 10 in HoT, but I manage to play it if I select the lowest graphical setup available.

I don’t really like the new maps. They’re really hard and I feel lost. I prefer to play by myself and when I bring a friend we just rush it. I also have died a lot.

There are way too many threads complaining about GW2: HoT. Many people have left because of the expansion and another handful of players avoid the expansion like the plague. I also heard that the HoT sales were dreadful. Is this true?

Regardless of what other people claim to be fact as how many people have left, only ANet know how many people have “quit” the game. And there is no way they’ll tell anyone. We do how ever know that they have had problems with player retention. That’s why we had the “New player experience” force on us for the greater good, just glad I have enough Tombs of Knowledge to level 3 toons to 80 if I ever choose to buy more slots.

Sold 5m world-wide.
1.5m monthly paid actives (“Historically”).
Doubled player base, becoming 3.1m players after going F2P (2m F2P accounts).

Yes that’s great and all, but this is not showing how many people stopped playing because of HoT.

Absolutely. As of now it’s our most current data, we will likely start to see something later this year regarding post-launch HoT.

Right now each individual can only give anecdotal evidence, pre-HoT I had an active WvW guild who would raid on a daily basis for 2-3 hours a night. Now I do not.

I was on a T1 server where there would be queues (our guild would sometimes have to wait anywhere up to 30mins to get into a borderland), particularly on reset where EB would be 60+. Post-HoT we could jump into any map instantly regardless of time.

I don’t know but just imagine how many people would stop if there isn’t an expansion.

Remember the forum a few month ago? The forum pretty much was spam with posts asking for new content. At least it isn’t so bad now.

All I can say is Wow have 10 million players when it release it’s expansion, it is down to 5.5 million in 1 year. You just can’t expect players to stay long at this age.

5.5m paying every month, not half of your 3m playerbase who are only here now it’s free.

So you change the whole concept of “play your way” as the game was touted and began, and then expect players to stay after gating nearly everything behind specific game modes and long times and big numbers and constantly nerfing builds further reducing diversity?

It just doesn’t make sense even if a few players say they want harder content. That’s what the other games have and where those players should have gone, probably went.

Nice spin Vayne! Trying to compare players leaving because content was too easy with players leaving because it was too hard is nothing more than spin because nobody can supply accurate numbers.
Learn that from the Tobacco companies?

laokoko.7403:

Remember the forum a few month ago? The forum pretty much was spam with posts asking for new content.

new content /= expansion.

Living World Story season 1 got complaints for not being permanent and not introducing much content that stays.

Living World Story season 2 was received better because it added two zones and was actually permanent.

Screams for expansion were there because we were running dry for 8 months. If we weren’t running dry for 8 months, everything could have continued being just fine.

That being said, the story speed was too slow if we actually wanted to slay ALL the dragons in MMOs lifetime. We were on the first one for 3 years. Having in mind that there’s what? 6 of them? The MMO wasn’t likely to last two decades.

So if they just sped the story up, kept it as B2P (buy once play forever, wasn’t that the slogan?), it would have been completely fine.

Running jumping climbing competing against the clock just to much of it I have no interest in that sort of game fed up with it

Vayne.8563:

People have been saying this game is dying or will be dead since a couple of months after launch, which is 3 years ago. It’s not even close to being in trouble.

It may have lost players, but it’s also gained players.

Can you please link the topic/page where Anet have posted there state of the game recently, (not a 3rd party site, but Anet themselves) to back up your comment about it not even being close to being in trouble, id also love a link where they say how many players they have gained vs lost.

Thanks

@OP, people aren’t leaving because of HoT they are leaving because there preferred game content is being slaughtered one way or the other,

WvW = dead, will probably be buried this year at some point

sPvP = relentless push for eSports, and massively overpowered builds for certain classes, making it boring for some, balance team cannot get it right, do not seem to follow feedback

PvE ( breaks down into many forms )
Dungeons – nerfed into the ground, should probably be removed at some point if nothing is done,

Fractals – got updated but no incentive to run higher levels, just a time sink for little reward, again doesn’t seem to be any info on whats happening going forward,

Raids – really only caters for a very small group of players,

General PvE, some say its to hard, some say its not hard enough, both groups affected the same, the content becomes boring to them, thus they move on, new HoT maps are generally only ok for the first few times you run threw them, then you have no reason to go back unless its to grind for legendary.

Communication – nuff said, I personally feel that what the players want, vs what anet wants, are completely different at this point in time, and unless that balance can be meet in the middle somewhere, it will get worse, which is a shame, as GW2 has some of the best GFX ive seen in a game, and some very talented developers, and ive supported Anet for 11 years now since GW1 launch, so yea its sad to see things going the way they are going.

Ok I Did It.2854:

Vayne.8563:

People have been saying this game is dying or will be dead since a couple of months after launch, which is 3 years ago. It’s not even close to being in trouble.

It may have lost players, but it’s also gained players.

Can you please link the topic/page where Anet have posted there state of the game recently, (not a 3rd party site, but Anet themselves) to back up your comment about it not even being close to being in trouble, id also love a link where they say how many players they have gained vs lost.

Thanks

Infographic was somewhere on their twitter or fb pages, can’t find it.
A gaming site has it http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/arenanet-announces-7-million-guild-wars-2-accounts-launches-new-expansion-guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-300165251.html

Far from dead pre-HoT and no real data available post-HoT, doomsayers have been getting it wrong since 2012.

Sicarius.4639:

5.5m paying every month, not half of your 3m playerbase who are only here now it’s free.

I think you take it too serious. Most of those 5.5m are in china.

I don’t even think wow have that many players(outside of china).

I think you serverly overestimate how many players play wow or gw2.

The retention rate isn’t high in general for mmorpg. I’m not targeting any game. In fact it’s getting worse and worse.

Well you probably heard it from a world verses world point of view, because there it is as true as it can be, world verses world are bleeding players to a point were it is soon not possible to repair the damage. But this does not mean that the pvp or pve are going bad. Just one game mode that lost a huge part of their player base and it is very uncertain how that will turn out.

As for pve and pve i see no reason to say that the expansion are bad. There is something for all to do. Yes it is harder, you need to get out of your comfort zone, get your gear right and learn how to use your skills, to interrupt mobs, dodge, cleanse and forsee were to move to not get caught up, and make sure they die. Mobs are not nice in HoT, and you can not 1111111 your way through it thinking it will work, then the mobs will wipe the floor with you.

If you feel you have issues, then talk to someone that knows your class and ask how they are doing it, what skills they use, what build they use, what gear and how to best be able to be in the new HoT maps. When you learn this you will realize it is not that hard and scary as you thought, it is just adjustment from your side that is needed.
Not even the evil little dinosaurs are hard to deal with if you know what to use on them.

Sicarius.4639:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Sicarius.4639:

BrotherBelial.3094:

RandomWolf.3986:

I’ve seen on countless sites that GW2 in on the top mostp layed MMOs out there, mostly in second or third place.

I also noticed a lot of the controversy caused by the expansion — more related about its content, features, perfomance and price.

I’m on a weak laptop, but I manage to run GW2 with average 25-30 fps in all of Tyria. Sadly my fps are below 10 in HoT, but I manage to play it if I select the lowest graphical setup available.

I don’t really like the new maps. They’re really hard and I feel lost. I prefer to play by myself and when I bring a friend we just rush it. I also have died a lot.

There are way too many threads complaining about GW2: HoT. Many people have left because of the expansion and another handful of players avoid the expansion like the plague. I also heard that the HoT sales were dreadful. Is this true?

Regardless of what other people claim to be fact as how many people have left, only ANet know how many people have “quit” the game. And there is no way they’ll tell anyone. We do how ever know that they have had problems with player retention. That’s why we had the “New player experience” force on us for the greater good, just glad I have enough Tombs of Knowledge to level 3 toons to 80 if I ever choose to buy more slots.

Sold 5m world-wide.
1.5m monthly paid actives (“Historically”).
Doubled player base, becoming 3.1m players after going F2P (2m F2P accounts).

Yes that’s great and all, but this is not showing how many people stopped playing because of HoT.

Absolutely. As of now it’s our most current data, we will likely start to see something later this year regarding post-launch HoT.

Right now each individual can only give anecdotal evidence, pre-HoT I had an active WvW guild who would raid on a daily basis for 2-3 hours a night. Now I do not.

I was on a T1 server where there would be queues (our guild would sometimes have to wait anywhere up to 30mins to get into a borderland), particularly on reset where EB would be 60+. Post-HoT we could jump into any map instantly regardless of time.

Yes, WvW is in a bad way. I’ve also noticed the lack of players. PvP seems to have fallen off a little, but that’s probably dew to the league ending.

I don’t think the game is in trouble WvW as a game mode seems to be in trouble.

Raziel.4216:

Ok I Did It.2854:

Vayne.8563:

People have been saying this game is dying or will be dead since a couple of months after launch, which is 3 years ago. It’s not even close to being in trouble.

It may have lost players, but it’s also gained players.

Can you please link the topic/page where Anet have posted there state of the game recently, (not a 3rd party site, but Anet themselves) to back up your comment about it not even being close to being in trouble, id also love a link where they say how many players they have gained vs lost.

Thanks

Infographic was somewhere on their twitter or fb pages, can’t find it.
A gaming site has it http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/arenanet-announces-7-million-guild-wars-2-accounts-launches-new-expansion-guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-300165251.html

Far from dead pre-HoT and no real data available post-HoT, doomsayers have been getting it wrong since 2012.

Considering we’ve been at over 4 millions in us/eu, and over 1 million in China before HoT was even announced, and that we know we got 1.5 mil f2p players on the month HoT launched (which, by the way, was half of the game population that month), it seems that most of the people that bought HoT were old players – it didn’t bring many new ones at all. And let’s be honest – quite a number of those f2p accounts were second accounts of veterans, and many of the remaining ones aren’t active anymore.
Remember also, that while the data we got puts the b2p population on HoT launch at around 1.5 million accounts, it’s just a number of accounts someone logged into at least once. Lot of inactives did that to check what the fuss is about. Some likely stayed a bit longer, but there were also others, that checked out HoT, and then promptly left again.

So, there are still several important questions unanswered:
- how many new players (that are still active) HoT brought with it
- how many of those are paying customers
- how many old inactive players it brought back
- how many of those decided to stay
- how many people left the game, either because of what HoT is, or because of what it isn’t.

I’m not so sure that the answers to those questions will be as good as you think they are.

Astralporing.1957:

Considering we’ve been at over 4 millions in us/eu, and over 1 million in China before HoT was even announced, and that we know we got 1.5 mil f2p players on the month HoT launched (which, by the way, was half of the game population that month)

How do we know that? we don’t know how many players joined when HoT launched

Astralporing.1957:

it seems that most of the people that bought HoT were old players – it didn’t bring many new ones at all.

How does anything said here add up to that conclusion?

Astralporing.1957:

And let’s be honest – quite a number of those f2p accounts were second accounts of veterans, and many of the remaining ones aren’t active anymore.

Source?

Astralporing.1957:

Remember also, that while the data we got puts the b2p population on HoT launch at around 1.5 million accounts, it’s just a number of accounts someone logged into at least once. Lot of inactives did that to check what the fuss is about. Some likely stayed a bit longer, but there were also others, that checked out HoT, and then promptly left again.

Arenanet provided account numbers, they never stated it was active or inactive ones so pointing this out like it’s a big revelation is strange.

Astralporing.1957:

So, there are still several important questions unanswered:
- how many new players (that are still active) HoT brought with it
- how many of those are paying customers
- how many old inactive players it brought back
- how many of those decided to stay
- how many people left the game, either because of what HoT is, or because of what it isn’t.

I’m not so sure that the answers to those questions will be as good as you think they are.

And I’m not sure they’re as bad as you think they are, after all Anet plans to make another expansion and no investor would be OK with NCSOFT letting Anet throw their money away on a product that just failed.
But let’s ignore that inconvenient detail while we talk about how HoT failed.

Thrist.9046:

Well, I really do want to get a specialization weapon, but that means reclaimed plates for a plated weapon and beating dragon stand to talk to the merchant. Not going to happen tonight and probably not any time soon.

Work on a legendary? I have one started, a little, but I have to run dungeons like 9 times or PvP for rewards. Again. work for me, since I like neither.

Depending on which legendary you decide to work on you might have to go do Dragon’s Stand as well. That is both good and bad depending on how you look at it.

And the current activity doesn’t really give me anything to do, besides die repeatedly to people who are better at Dragon Ball than I am.

There was a reason to do Dragon Ball last year(IIRC it gave laurels for the festival daily completion) but why do it this yes especially if you are not enjoying it? These festival PvP things are basically doomed to failure when they decide that matchmaking was unnecessary.

These are some of the things that i’m not happy about. The mob levels are fine, you need to get used to that difficulty level first and you’ll pick it up like what skills they use, when to be ready to dodge….etc
What I don’t like is how things are implemented and work. eg, you get kicked of maps and lose progression that you have worked the last hour or so for. (Before someone jumps in, yes I am on a 64bit client).
There is a lot of issues with Dragon Stand, firstly have to keep looking in LFG for a organized map and if you missed the time, well go do other things. Next thing, the map closes or the freaking dragon does a Houdini on you. Just disappears midway in battle and the chat will be just filled with people cursing Anet.
The other thing that I’m not happy about is the mastery that is gated behind these mini games. Some are ok, but others I’ve just given up on them.
Those are some of the thing that I and some of the people I play with are not happy about.

WwW players were wondering where were the people cause noone was on the new map. Some said they were on the pve maps and in spvp.
Spvp players complained about long queue time because of the lack of players, some said the players were in the new pve mini-maps.
Pve players complained that the new mini-maps were empty, arenanet said that it was a problem with mega-server, a problem caused by a tech they master and on going today.
Guess that answer the question, the dlc didn’t selll well and players left en masse, or players are stuck between the bridge of the servers.

I quite simply gave up and went to play other stuff.
Didn’t feel like I was making any real progress with the shift in design focus.

LS1 and 2 I was happy to come back regularly with each new release, because I had something to look forward to, and I could measure my progress.

But I’m not going to beat my head against the adventures for no real benefit.
Instead I’ll find a game where I can play my way with others, that gives me regular content updates and doesn’t force me to do anything specific in order to progress.

Hard to tell if people actually left or not. WvW definitely took a hit but those players could have simply switched to playing any other content.

Personally, I barely play on the new maps. I play mostly Fractals or world events every now and then.

The new maps aren’t really too hard. The difficulty in addition to the reward just makes it feel tedious and grindy. I need forever to achieve anything and on top of the time I need I even have to wait for certain events to pop up before I get anywhere near the things I want(big examples for that are the meta events of the two final maps).

All in all I’m kinda disappointed in the expansion. The specializations are so much better than basic builds. Leveling Maguuma masteries takes forever compared to Tyria masteries (and then there are also a lot more of them). The new legendaries are expensive AND time-consuming (instead of only expensive like before). The new rewards feel like grind(I have to repeat the same events over and over for hours if I wanted to get some new stuff. I stopped after a few hours because I wasn’t even close to the first weapon skin after the story completion). And I paid more for this than I paid for the base game 3 1/2 years ago.

Well. I have to admit that fractals are really fun now because they are much more accessible than before. But A-Net basically sacrificed dungeons and made fractals the new thing. So that’s the other side of it.

Let’s see when we’ll get the next LS and what A-Net plans this time. Probably the warm-up for the next Elder Dragon in the next expansion.

ok ill give you a little tid bit about the “vocal” community , or the portion of it thats usually complaining the most , they are not complaining because of the reasons they claim , their desire is to destabilize the game (if you watch / peruse through many mmo forums youll notice the pattern). All the while drowning out legitimate complaints / issues. While i dont care for the “trying to make the game more challening thing” in open world content , cause lets face it thats what raids were put in for………i will point out another NCSoft game that was aimed at hardcore players (aka the ones that want the challenge) , and while they expected a low sub base from the start , even they ended up having to switch to F2P model……….do you need anymore proof that challenging games are no longer as popular as many ppl of the vocal community claim? Most of us look to have a fun enjoyable game with a great story. Ive seen plenty of EQ1 players say they were tired of the challenging BSas they have lives (Jobs , families , etc). So take that as you will , these are just simple observations ive seen and comments from ppl i know who played EQ1 (ppl from RL that is , not a random joe on the internet).
As far as the games population , i dont think its that empty outside of the last map in HoT , which is due to a horrible meta design , i have yet to find one that isnt empty and im told to start relying on the LFG tool…..and lets face it how many ppl want to do open world content relying on LFG? It could stand a redesign so you would go and enjoy it like the other HoT maps.

Edit: Even Orr was always populated back when that was the end zone.

Enundr.9305:

ok ill give you a little tid bit about the “vocal” community , or the portion of it thats usually complaining the most , they are not complaining because of the reasons they claim , their desire is to destabilize the game (if you watch / peruse through many mmo forums youll notice the pattern). All the while drowning out legitimate complaints / issues. While i dont care for the “trying to make the game more challening thing” in open world content , cause lets face it thats what raids were put in for………i will point out another NCSoft game that was aimed at hardcore players (aka the ones that want the challenge) , and while they expected a low sub base from the start , even they ended up having to switch to F2P model……….do you need anymore proof that challenging games are no longer as popular as many ppl of the vocal community claim? Most of us look to have a fun enjoyable game with a great story. Ive seen plenty of EQ1 players say they were tired of the challenging BSas they have lives (Jobs , families , etc). So take that as you will , these are just simple observations ive seen and comments from ppl i know who played EQ1 (ppl from RL that is , not a random joe on the internet).
As far as the games population , i dont think its that empty outside of the last map in HoT , which is due to a horrible meta design , i have yet to find one that isnt empty and im told to start relying on the LFG tool…..and lets face it how many ppl want to do open world content relying on LFG? It could stand a redesign so you would go and enjoy it like the other HoT maps.

Edit: Even Orr was always populated back when that was the end zone.

You’re making a pretty kittenumption about Wildstar, which is the game I assume you’re referring to when you talk about a more hard core experience.

You’re making the assumption wild-star tanked because it was a hard core experience. There were several issues with Wildstar, including bad design decisions, server lag, and other issues such as grinding attunements that caused players to leave that game. Blaming it on being hard core is not really provable, and probably not the case.

For example, I tried it from Australia and it was almost unplayable at launch, hard core or no hard core.

Thrist.9046:

You’re making the assumption wild-star tanked because it was a hard core experience. There were several issues with Wildstar, including bad design decisions, server lag, and other issues such as grinding attunements that caused players to leave that game. Blaming it on being hard core is not really provable, and probably not the case.

This – server lag and at my time of play coupled with sub fee = no go. Hard core stuff brings it in for some players – most of the time i log into gw2 is to chat harass the guild for a few minutes, not much for me to work toward anymore though I plan on doing stupid stuff to force the challenge on myself in a few months.

If you really want to know the answer to gw2 current status though you can find that out by just bring up your friend list and see those who login on a reg basis versus the greys…..

echo.2053:

Thrist.9046:

You’re making the assumption wild-star tanked because it was a hard core experience. There were several issues with Wildstar, including bad design decisions, server lag, and other issues such as grinding attunements that caused players to leave that game. Blaming it on being hard core is not really provable, and probably not the case.

This – server lag and at my time of play coupled with sub fee = no go. Hard core stuff brings it in for some players – most of the time i log into gw2 is to chat harass the guild for a few minutes, not much for me to work toward anymore though I plan on doing stupid stuff to force the challenge on myself in a few months.

If you really want to know the answer to gw2 current status though you can find that out by just bring up your friend list and see those who login on a reg basis versus the greys…..

I have more people logging in now than before the expansion launched. I have a ton of friends online now, and my guild is pretty busy as well. Of course I’m not in a WvW guild. lol

Wetpaw.3487:

Widowmaker Z.4802:

After playing since head start, I left the game about 2 weeks after HoT release and happily playing other games.

Same.

Finished Nevermore a couple weeks ago and don’t even login anymore for the daily rewards. Overall I have been a big fan of GW2 since BWE2, but it’s clear now this esport/spvp focus has taken this game in a direction I no longer want to be a part of.

Same.

Finished making Sunrise about a month ago, then basically quit the game, log in every once in a while just to check for messages. Also played from the beta weekends, which at one time I had thought this was going to be the best mmo ever, will never need to play any others…. oh well.

The game is taking a different direction with content, combat(too much focus on conditions), op specs, etc. Goodbye wvw, hopefully the developers in future wvw games will treat you better.

I don’t even know how many wvw players there were. I think the population might be shrinking.

I’m not sure if that is expected or Anet just didn’t do enough good a job.

My past experience for RvR game is it only have a couple year life spam. So it could be it is just time.

I honestly never saw any RvR focus game that can live past a few years.

Whats biggest problem with HoT (and core game). Lack of rewards. You can play 1 event for fun, second time for fun even third time for fun, but it becomes borring cause doing something for 2,3 blues really does not provide fun for long run. F2p just killed that with dungeon nerf and all other nerfs. Dungeons were quite fun, I did full runs here and there.

You cant make an expansion saying here look at gliding its fun, look at all those shiny armors its fun , look at that events its fun and looook all those gem shop items only for 800 gems you can be awesome. LoL. But lacking actual rewards is making champ trains, SW farms + chest farming etc….

The reward system in HoT is very similar to the cooking craft.

You want reward “B”? That’s 250 of ingredient 1, 250 of ingredient 2, 250 of ingredient 3 and one of reward A. Reward A, you ask? That’s another 100 of ingredient 1, another 100 of ingredient 2, another 100 of ingredient 3 and one of ingredient 47.

Ingredient 1 = Airship Parts.
Ingredient 2 = Lumps od Aurillium
Ingredient 3 = Ley Line Crystals
Ingredient 47 = Reclaimed metal Plate
Reward A = Plated Weapon

This is an approximation of how to “cook up” a Machined Weapon. I left out some stuff because I don’t care to be complete, what I’m showing is clear enough.

Almost everything is like this. And for every reward you want, you need to take just a few more rides on the 4 meta-merry-go-rounds. Until you’re dizzy and want to puke.

Round and round we go.
Where we stop, nobody knows.

Manasa Devi.7958:

The reward system in HoT is very similar to the cooking craft.

You want reward “B”? That’s 250 of ingredient 1, 250 of ingredient 2, 250 of ingredient 3 and one of reward A. Reward A, you ask? That’s another 100 of ingredient 1, another 100 of ingredient 2, another 100 of ingredient 3 and one of ingredient 47.

Ingredient 1 = Airship Parts.
Ingredient 2 = Lumps od Aurillium
Ingredient 3 = Ley Line Crystals
Ingredient 47 = Reclaimed metal Plate
Reward A = Plated Weapon

This is an approximation of how to “cook up” a Machined Weapon. I left out some stuff because I don’t care to be complete, what I’m showing is clear enough.

Almost everything is like this. And for every reward you want, you need to take just a few more rides on the 4 meta-merry-go-rounds. Until you’re dizzy and want to puke.

Round and round we go.
Where we stop, nobody knows.

Let us – just for a minute – suppose that as a developer, your goal is to entice players to repeat content long after the initial new content smell is gone and the content, like an old car, starts to smell like sweaty socks and that pizza you ate six months ago. So, you use rewards. It’s what all MMO’s do. What are your options?

• Well, you could use low-chance RNG. There was a sword I was supposed to get as a sometimes off-tank in Wrath. Never got it, until eventually it became irrelevant. Turns out a lot of GW2 players don’t like low-chance RNG. The frustration factor, don’t you know.
• You could use a sure, incremental means, such as gathering stuff which gets turned in for Shiny Z. Whether this is one currency (e.g., tokens) or many ingredients (crafting, where you gather gold and buy the mats) is not really material. You get there, sooner or later.
• Or, you could combine RNG and incremental rewards. This would be crafting where you gather all the mats through play, and some of them are gained via drops (e.g., Lodestones).

Sure, Anet could shorten the list, and/or shorten the total amount of increments. So what happens. Joe Stereotype, who plays 20 hours a day, gets Shiny Z in the first seven hours the content is live. Does he rest in the 8th hour? Heck, no! He gets on the official forums or on fan sites and raises holy kitten about nothing to do. Even Joe Casual, who plays an hour a day, gets Shiny Z in the first week or so. Even he wants something new. It took the developer 6 months to make the content. Do the math.

For that matter, they could award Shiny Z for beating the content the first time. Why not? Near instant gratification.

So, got any solutions? I sure don’t. I’ve yet to see a different option used in an MMO. I’ve also yet to see any posters suggest a different option that would also allow the developer to extend content life.

There’s a very easy solution. Make more than 4 merry-go-rounds. A respectable amount of content.

anet probably just hope you have a life and don’t run out of things so fast.

Widowmaker Z.4802:

After playing since head start, I left the game about 2 weeks after HoT release and happily playing other games.

This. I renewed my WoW account ankitten ow playing something else that I quit for a monthly fee.

GG, ArenaNet!