Guild Wars 2

PorceleinEve.2973:

“Each Mastery track is tied to a region of Tyria—they must be unlocked with Mastery points gained in that region and can only be trained in that region.”

from their blog post… so if you want to raise a specific mastery you’ll have to be in a specific region, doing again and again and again stuff that grant you experience in that region, otherwise no cigar. Not much different from running a raid, only you can possibly solo it (we don’t know yet) and you’ll get the desired result in the end, but we don’t have a time estimate on how long that will be, not with higher tier masteries requiring more and more experience gained.

This is not such a bad thing. Gw1 had this, and it worked out fine, i was hoping that the Masteries would be like this actually. And from their blog post, you gain experience to that mastery just by gaining exp, so it doesnt sound to bad.

PorceleinEve.2973:

So, you don’t grind a raid now, you grind a zone, you don’t have rng to hope/fear you"ll get lucky/unlucky, and eventually you get what you want. don’t sound all that different from gear grind to me. specially the grind bit.

and let’s not forget that each mastery point is unique so you can’t use a point gained in another area to unlock any area’s masteries, only the specific ones tied to the area you got the point.

The potential of the system and the ways it can go catastrophically wrong are staggering. They’re running on good faith right now, but if they don’t get it right, the blowback will be amazing. I so so so hope they’ll get it right. I like the game a lot.

Not really a bad thing with this either in my opinion!

hey you get rewarded for playing the game past level 80 now, all you have to do is spend time in a zone! which im sure quite a few of us do anyways, without rewards, as it is now.

I personally will randomly just spend time in a zone for long periods of time if there is someone interesting to talk to in map chat. So being rewarded for that, aside from having an interesting conversation partner, not a bad thing in my book.

PorceleinEve.2973:

Kal Spiro.9745:

There are only two regions. Old and New. Old is the entirety of GW2 as we currently know it. New is every single thing that will be introduced with HoT. So, no, it’s not like doing a Raid at all. You play in the New areas and you earn XP. You will probably get your first Mastery Point by doing the very first story in the new area, which you will absolutely be able to do without Masteries. So you play the content, and just do what you want and you level up your track.

Play the way you want is their goal, and they are still accomplishing it. This is not a Gear Grind.

If that is true, then I stand corrected, that’s a much more flexible system. Less of a grind.

ps – thanks for editing that to include an accusation though, loved it

I misunderstood something, realized the mistake and took it back out, so… I do stand by, if you’re confused about something go reread the blog. It is very comprehensive.

PorceleinEve.2973:

BrunoBRS.5178:

no, the motif of the game is that endgame starts at level 1. that every task you do is relevant now and later. every zone remains relevant even at level 80. every dungeon is endgame, even the one you unlocked back at level 30.

the problem starts when people misread that as “i can have everything now or else the manifesto lied to me” (can you tell how tired i am of the “manifesto said different” complaint?). no, it didn’t lie to you. it said you wouldn’t have to keep doing the same content over and over to achieve any semblance of progression. and you don’t. you still don’t. you can do a ton of different content to unlock mastery tracks, and then you can do literally whatever gives you exp to progress those tracks. there are people (myself included) that actually wanted the system to be far more restrictive than it is, but we know that ANet chose this way because it’s their policy to not force people down a single content type.

if that is the motif of the game (i disagree but never mind that) having masteries then is most certainly against your stated motif for the game. since cutting the world in half for mastery acquisition would esentially mean that the other half is “worthless” now.

the manifesto did lie. too many promises. and just because you’re tired of it, that doesn’t make the complaints about it any less true. and i totally understand that you are ok with the manifesto failing, but others still have the right to not be.

and with masteries being unlocked via specific tasks, you now DO have to do the same content again and again and again, especially if that point is hidden behind some arbitrary “achievement” like do this adventure in 4 seconds instead of the usual 5. so you can expect the complaints to rise and not fall with the expansion.

we don’t know how free or restrictive is the system cause we haven’t seen it in action. but i do feel like reminding the folks that another game tried the “hardcore” approach. it didn’t work well for them, be careful what you wish for…

if you disagree, i’m sorry but you’re wrong. they never said “no endgame” (that’s what people that don’t like the game say), they’ve always said “endgame starts the moment you step out of the tutorial”. and no, masteries do not invalidate it.

see, the core tyrian world has their own masteries. hell, while you can’t spend those mastery points while leveling, you still earn them while leveing up. just because you have more things to do now doesn’t mean you were lied to. hell, if you think “more things to do” is a lie and a betrayal, by all means, stick to the core game where those things won’t affect you.

i could ask you to point out where did it lie, but that would go beyond the scope of this thread, which is “are masteries gating content a bad thing or not”.

umm, no, you don’t have to do the same content over and over again. matter of fact, that won’t even work, because each task can only give you one mastery point per account. you can’t earn mastery points by doing world completion a second time. and those points are a generic currency. you have a plethora of tasks to choose from, and a handful of masteries to spend those points on. you spend those points once, and then you just need exp to fuel the mastery, not more points. and this, as you might recall, is a game where literally everything you do earns you exp.

by far the most baffling part of this thread, to me, is how people think ANet will suddenly turn a 180 in their core values, after several years of enforcing those values in-game. why would masteries suddenly be a super long term grind, when leveling is so easy to achieve? why would they be lying to us on every interview regarding masteries? is it that hard to take a developer’s words at face value?

Dante.1763:

Not really a bad thing with this either in my opinion!

hey you get rewarded for playing the game past level 80 now, all you have to do is spend time in a zone! which im sure quite a few of us do anyways, without rewards, as it is now.

I personally will randomly just spend time in a zone for long periods of time if there is someone interesting to talk to in map chat. So being rewarded for that, aside from having an interesting conversation partner, not a bad thing in my book.

No that’s not true, it doesn’t work like that, i misunderstood the post. the areas are only 2, new and old. So you got pretty much the whole game divided in 2 regions and you can lvl up masteries on them 2 regions. One of them is what we got today. So it’s pretty big and expansive, you can’t honestly call that a grind.

Kal Spiro.9745:

I misunderstood something, realized the mistake and took it back out, so… I do stand by, if you’re confused about something go reread the blog. It is very comprehensive.

It’s ok man, i’m just teasing ya

after all we are all here cause we love the game and want to keep enjoying it.

PorceleinEve.2973:

No that’s not true, it doesn’t work like that, i misunderstood the post. the areas are only 2, new and old. So you got pretty much the whole game divided in 2 regions and you can lvl up masteries on them 2 regions. One of them is what we got today. So it’s pretty big and expansive, you can’t honestly call that a grind.

I never called it a grind though~ it was never going to be a grind to me, ive always done things when i want them and when i feel like doing them. It still stands though, if the game is divided in to half, they might do something like a “Kryta Master, Ascalon Master, Orr Master, Shiverpeaks Master” The possibilities are really endless for the things they can do in the old vanilla GW world, which im hoping for sure they take advantage of !

BrunoBRS.5178:

if you disagree, i’m sorry but you’re wrong. they never said “no endgame” (that’s what people that don’t like the game say), they’ve always said “endgame starts the moment you step out of the tutorial”. and no, masteries do not invalidate it.

see, the core tyrian world has their own masteries. hell, while you can’t spend those mastery points while leveling, you still earn them while leveing up. just because you have more things to do now doesn’t mean you were lied to. hell, if you think “more things to do” is a lie and a betrayal, by all means, stick to the core game where those things won’t affect you.

i could ask you to point out where did it lie, but that would go beyond the scope of this thread, which is “are masteries gating content a bad thing or not”.

umm, no, you don’t have to do the same content over and over again. matter of fact, that won’t even work, because each task can only give you one mastery point per account. you can’t earn mastery points by doing world completion a second time. and those points are a generic currency. you have a plethora of tasks to choose from, and a handful of masteries to spend those points on. you spend those points once, and then you just need exp to fuel the mastery, not more points. and this, as you might recall, is a game where literally everything you do earns you exp.

by far the most baffling part of this thread, to me, is how people think ANet will suddenly turn a 180 in their core values, after several years of enforcing those values in-game. why would masteries suddenly be a super long term grind, when leveling is so easy to achieve? why would they be lying to us on every interview regarding masteries? is it that hard to take a developer’s words at face value?

won’t comment on many here cause the missunderstanding was cleared up from a previous poster. so no point in repeating

but I will address some of your points.

we can’t know for sure if masteries are a good or a bad thing cause we haven’t played yet. however, i can both see the potential of the system and the potential problems of it. and i’m concerned about it. rightfully so, since things have more chances to fail than to succeed. so, i think, most people here, are just saying to anet, “be careful”

well it’s not unheard of to turn on one’s values. surelly you can see how folks are concerned when talk of hardcore content or challenging content keep poping up. we never had that before so it only makes sense to feel uneasy. unless of course the marionette event is the lvl of challenge we’re talking about when we say “challenging” here. they really do need to clarify that stuff up. everyone has a different perception of challenging here, it would be good to know were they (anet) puts that bar exactly.

on a more general comment, i don’t understand why some folks in here take concerns about the game so kitten seriously. i mean we are customers, we like the product, we want it to be successful and some of us are concerned. expressing that concern can only be good for the game, not bad. why this overwhelming need to all agree that we absolutely love everything anet does for ever and ever and ever?

PorceleinEve.2973:

Well I don’t know if you noticed, that there’s a trend that’s slowly creeping up on us. As time passes I’m hearing more and more the words challenging and hardcore. And I’m not alone in this. Others have noticed too. That’s why I’m sceptical. Ofcourse everyone is giving them the benefit of the doubt, but still it’s good to voice your concerns none the less. So they know…

And to be quite frank, the combat masteries system does sound like a system deliberately made to slow you down… as I said highly sceptical but as always we’ll eventually find out. Won’t we?

I personally don’t really care what words people are using. It’s been clear to me that most people don’t see the pages of the book, so to speak. If you as a character can’t immediately do something then that doesn’t mean you are slowed down. Your character has to learn things, do things to train, you know, “being on an adventure”. And ArenaNet generally has done so that you “train” in the least amount of grind. Grind being killing monsters over and over. Doing the same thing over and over. Hell, The new trait system everyone is saying that it is a grind because you need to go to one location for one action. (Not grind, at all) I like to explore and let the world have challenges in it which you need to seek out.

Personally, I don’t understand all the fear against progression. The need for such skills is highly overrated, I never had any problems with playing through content in this game. It’s the whole consensus that you apparently need the best of the best gear and the best of the best skills, otherwise it’s impossible and can’t enjoy yourself. Just play the game and let masteries and levels be what they are. If you want one, go out and explore where you get the unlock (if it is that), and either train it if you find it important enough.

I think players need to step away from the whole “I need”s and start thinking in “I want”s which generally makes up for a more enjoyable playtime anyway. Can’t get what you want right away? Do something else, find stuff you can get to until you can get to that. Relax, lie in a tree, wander about. Stand still. It’s a game, it’s not work, and definitely not worth all the stress.

Like ArenaNet is saying, it’s not about the end goal, it’s about the journey. You can do whatever and still have great amounts of fun in this game. That’s why it’s so casual friendly. Not because of some arbitrary difficulty level.

Most of anything in this game you get pretty much naturally. Some things you need to seek out, sure. But that’s part of exploring the game world.

PorceleinEve.2973:

BrunoBRS.5178:

if you disagree, i’m sorry but you’re wrong. they never said “no endgame” (that’s what people that don’t like the game say), they’ve always said “endgame starts the moment you step out of the tutorial”. and no, masteries do not invalidate it.

see, the core tyrian world has their own masteries. hell, while you can’t spend those mastery points while leveling, you still earn them while leveing up. just because you have more things to do now doesn’t mean you were lied to. hell, if you think “more things to do” is a lie and a betrayal, by all means, stick to the core game where those things won’t affect you.

i could ask you to point out where did it lie, but that would go beyond the scope of this thread, which is “are masteries gating content a bad thing or not”.

umm, no, you don’t have to do the same content over and over again. matter of fact, that won’t even work, because each task can only give you one mastery point per account. you can’t earn mastery points by doing world completion a second time. and those points are a generic currency. you have a plethora of tasks to choose from, and a handful of masteries to spend those points on. you spend those points once, and then you just need exp to fuel the mastery, not more points. and this, as you might recall, is a game where literally everything you do earns you exp.

by far the most baffling part of this thread, to me, is how people think ANet will suddenly turn a 180 in their core values, after several years of enforcing those values in-game. why would masteries suddenly be a super long term grind, when leveling is so easy to achieve? why would they be lying to us on every interview regarding masteries? is it that hard to take a developer’s words at face value?

won’t comment on many here cause the missunderstanding was cleared up from a previous poster. so no point in repeating

but I will address some of your points.

we can’t know for sure if masteries are a good or a bad thing cause we haven’t played yet. however, i can both see the potential of the system and the potential problems of it. and i’m concerned about it. rightfully so, since things have more chances to fail than to succeed. so, i think, most people here, are just saying to anet, “be careful”

well it’s not unheard of to turn on one’s values. surelly you can see how folks are concerned when talk of hardcore content or challenging content keep poping up. we never had that before so it only makes sense to feel uneasy. unless of course the marionette event is the lvl of challenge we’re talking about when we say “challenging” here. they really do need to clarify that stuff up. everyone has a different perception of challenging here, it would be good to know were they (anet) puts that bar exactly.

on a more general comment, i don’t understand why some folks in here take concerns about the game so kitten seriously. i mean we are customers, we like the product, we want it to be successful and some of us are concerned. expressing that concern can only be good for the game, not bad. why this overwhelming need to all agree that we absolutely love everything anet does for ever and ever and ever?

there’s “concerned with potential setbacks of the new feature”, and there’s “i’m sure this feature will fail because so and so, and i don’t want it anywhere near my game”, the latter of which is a recurring theme in this forum, and it really wears down on the people that are excited for the game, especially when so often it sounds like a contradiction (“you didn’t have a problem with it when it had a different name, but you have now”). this isn’t necessarily directed at you, just a general statement.

and yeah, it would suck if ANet decided to turn on their values, but they’ve done a pretty good job at not doing that so far, so let’s give them the benefit of the doubt before jumping on the doom train.

as for challenging group content that they keep toting, not all content is designed with everyonee in mind. there’s content for the story savvy, for the competitive player, for the explorer, and there’s also content for those that want a real challenge. GW2 has sorely lacked in this department, and ANet wants to address that. it doesn’t mean all the content will suddenly become harder, just that there will be content for people that want something hard as well as content for the more casual players that make such a large chunk of this game.

think dungeons/fractals/tequatl/wurm. they’re content geared towards players that want a challenge (if they succeeded or failed, it’s up for debate). it doesn’t force people to play it, but the option is there, and there’s prestige (be it unique skins or titles) in completing them.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Hell, The new trait system everyone is saying that it is a grind because you need to go to one location for one action. (Not grind, at all) I like to explore and let the world have challenges in it which you need to seek out.

minor tangent, the problem with the trait system was that you had to do the exact same tasks on each and every character to unlock each of the dozens of traits, and a lot of tasks were poorly thought out (complete an obscure group event that only triggers if you fail another one), completely out of the scope of the level (go do a level 70 story mission to unlock an adept trait), forced players into specific content (do this thing on edge of the mists), or were just too big of a task compared to the trait you get (map completion).

the idea of trait unlocks was awesome, but it needed a lot more polish to be well executed. it needed tasks designed with trait unlocks in mind (just like skill hunting, the precursor feature from GW1, had specific bosses for each of them), and they had to be different for each profession.

but i digress.

That’s language/lore mastery, not combat mastery. Similarly, you need hang-gliding mastery to reach certain regions and certain content.

SirMoogie.9263:

TexZero.7910:

Show me where it said that, you cannot fight without the combat mastery please.

“As you keep progressing in the lore with the Itzel they’ll start giving you access to special combat abilities that will help you overcome obstacles that you absolutely could not defeat before.”

How Guild Wars 2’s Mastery System Could Change MMOs Forever

Orr is currently gated to any new character I make cause I gotta lvl up, skill up, gear up and walk their, total bs.

Differences between masteries and gear grind — masteries are:

• Less random
• Allows more of a variety of content rather than the exact same raid
• Modular — masteries have usefulness in their own region, and aren’t necessary for other regions’ content.

Similarities between masteries and gear grind — both:

• require a lot of time and effort to obtain
• keep the player busy while devs create new content
• give players something to do, since it takes less time to play content than it does to develop it.

I feel that a lot of concerns on this thread are abstract and revolve around the definition of “need.” I sincerely doubt that mobs will be completely immune to you, unless you have combat mastery. Does anyone actually believe that this is the case?

I suspect that you will need lore/hang gliding more than combat mastery to defeat bosses and that the non-combat masteries will be more of a gate. Why? Because the non-combat masteries let you access new areas, and content will be gated behind that.

With that in mind, I predict that people will argue about whether or not you need the combat masteries to defeat bosses, and that some people may even be able to defeat some content where masteries are considered necessary without the combat masteries that help, or at least without all that is expected at that point.

Further, we do have precedents — agony resist and guild wars 1 lightbringer rank. You can do lower-level fractals without agony resist, and skilled players can do fractals with less agony resist than less skilled players require. However, I could not in good faith claim that nobody needs any agony resist at all to do high-level fractals and that skill alone can compensate for agony resist.

So, in case it isn’t clear, my prediction is a bit mixed — some players will require more combat mastery than others to help clear content and that skill will be able to partially substitute for some of the mastery advantages but possibly not 100% replace them.

However, hang gliding will be a gate to content, and lore may even be as well. For that matter, lore might even give you combat advantages too!

ekarat.1085:

That’s language/lore mastery, not combat mastery. Similarly, you need hang-gliding mastery to reach certain regions and certain content.

That is true, but I doubt that will matter to people with the concerns you’re attempting to address. Does it really matter if a “special combat skill” required to defeat certain encounters is in the lore line, instead of the “combat mastery” line? I think what concerns some people is that such skills seem to exist, not what mastery line they happen to exist in.

PorceleinEve.2973:

Vayne.8563:

What is this idea that you have to be able to do everything?

Must have gotten it from the play as you want, do what you want and be rewarded for it, there’s no right path to playing this game, we’re all inclusive statements the devs have been putting out there since before the game’s launch.

The game has been super casual friendly, and making a turn now after 3 years into more “hardcore” (were have we heard that one before i wonder) territory, can only harm it, player wise. I mean we are talking about the game with the “oh you logged in, here have a reward” mentality. You can’t go from that to “work your kitty kitten soldier and get that mastery high high in the sky to kill that mordrem or else” mentality and don’t get any sort of blowback.

Play the way you want has NEVER meant that everyone gets the same rewards. It simply means you can level and play the game how you want. However, if you want a fractal weapon skin, you’ve always has to go into the fractals. If you want dungeon skins you have to run dungeons or now PvP. Play how you want is the most overused and most misinterpreted phrase. You’re trying to prove a point when Anet was crystal clear on what play how you wanted meant.

How about all the people who wanted more challenging content and want to be rewarded for it. Are they able to play how they want?

Play how you want means and has only ever meant that you can level through the entire game by doing different things, from staying in Queensdale to Crafting. But even in the core game, in order to finish the personal story you had to do a dungeon and in order to world complete you had to WvW.

Those are facts.

I feel that a lot of concerns on this thread are abstract and revolve around the definition of “need.” I sincerely doubt that mobs will be completely immune to you, unless you have combat mastery. Does anyone actually believe that this is the case?

I think there almost certainly will be some enemies that are completely immune to you unless you have gained the right masteries. I do not believe these enemies will be all over the place, I believe they will be out of the way so that you don’t have to fight them to get around and do other things, but I see no problem with having enemies that say “nope, come back when you have the frog toxin to melt my carapace” or whatever.

So, in case it isn’t clear, my prediction is a bit mixed — some players will require more combat mastery than others to help clear content and that skill will be able to partially substitute for some of the mastery advantages but possibly not 100% replace them.

I actually hope that combat skills are less often of the soft-cap variety, because all that will mean is that the more skilled players can skip through content spending less points than intended, and it devalues the combat tracks. I think it’s important to have certain bosses and enemies that are just flat out impossible without the required offense/defense buffs, no matter how well you dodge. Think of them less as Agony Resist and more like Fractal levels. You may be able to do Fractal 40 without heavy Agony Resist, but you can’t do it without beating Fractal 39 first.

Even the oldest of MMOs have realised arbitrary gating is a bad thing, and Anet’s planning to move forwards by reintroducing it? Oh boy.

Chameleon Dude.1564:

Even the oldest of MMOs have realised arbitrary gating is a bad thing, and Anet’s planning to move forwards by reintroducing it? Oh boy.

Except there is quite a bit difference between gear gating and masteries. Because of mastery gating being more akin to what it used in single player rpgs, it’s not a random thing. You do a set task, and you are guaranteed to have access. As an example of a recent game, Dragon Age: Inquisition gates story missions behind Inquisition Power, so you must have done some stuff out in the open world to be able to proceed.

Chameleon Dude.1564:

Even the oldest of MMOs have realised arbitrary gating is a bad thing, and Anet’s planning to move forwards by reintroducing it? Oh boy.

I dunno, is it arbitrary gating? Or is it very specific gating of some few extra goodies like jumping puzzles? (Considering how often I hear they shouldn’t be in this game, gating them seems like . . . well, nobody would care.)

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Chameleon Dude.1564:

Even the oldest of MMOs have realised arbitrary gating is a bad thing, and Anet’s planning to move forwards by reintroducing it? Oh boy.

I dunno, is it arbitrary gating? Or is it very specific gating of some few extra goodies like jumping puzzles? (Considering how often I hear they shouldn’t be in this game, gating them seems like . . . well, nobody would care.)

“As you keep progressing in the lore with the Itzel they’ll start giving you access to special combat abilities that will help you overcome obstacles that you absolutely could not defeat before.”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/external?l=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ign.com%2Farticles%2F2015%2F02%2F03%2Fhow-guild-wars-2s-mastery-system-could-change-mmos-forever

That’s arbitrary gating in that quote.

1-80 leveling was the gate before this, what is the difference?

Iason Evan.3806:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Chameleon Dude.1564:

Even the oldest of MMOs have realised arbitrary gating is a bad thing, and Anet’s planning to move forwards by reintroducing it? Oh boy.

I dunno, is it arbitrary gating? Or is it very specific gating of some few extra goodies like jumping puzzles? (Considering how often I hear they shouldn’t be in this game, gating them seems like . . . well, nobody would care.)

“As you keep progressing in the lore with the Itzel they’ll start giving you access to special combat abilities that will help you overcome obstacles that you absolutely could not defeat before.”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/external?l=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ign.com%2Farticles%2F2015%2F02%2F03%2Fhow-guild-wars-2s-mastery-system-could-change-mmos-forever

That’s arbitrary gating in that quote.

That seems more like “designed” gating rather than arbitrary. But then, what do I know about proper definitions of things?

BrunoBRS.5178:

The idea of trait unlocks was awesome, but it needed a lot more polish to be well executed. it needed tasks designed with trait unlocks in mind (just like skill hunting, the precursor feature from GW1, had specific bosses for each of them), and they had to be different for each profession.

I absolutely agree with that, it’s by no means perfect. The concept behind the traits is definitely in the right direction, but sadly not without it’s problems. To put the link towards the mastery system, I’m pretty sure it will at least be similar, good concept, but sometimes it rubs the wrong way. But at least the HoT area is made with these in mind, so it’s likely to be better streamlined than the new traits are.

(Personally I’m of the opinion that only skill challenges should be used for traits, but that may be because I’m thinking Zelda where Link gets trained by the mysterious swordman as a skill challenge and then unlocks a new ability)

It’s funny how Anet said they’re not going to turn GW2 into another gear treadmill MMO, then introduces masteries and then it turns out masteries are exactly the same as WoW’s gear treadmill, except instead of grinding for gear to access new content you’re grinding for mastery points to access new content.

Look, don’t get me wrong, I’m not complaining, I never had an issue with the gear treadmill in WoW, but I do find it incredibly ironic how Anet keeps saying GW2 will be different but then it turns out it’s not that different at all.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

It’s funny how Anet said they’re not going to turn GW2 into another gear treadmill MMO, then introduces masteries and then it turns out masteries are exactly the same as WoW’s gear treadmill, except instead of grinding for gear to access new content you’re grinding for mastery points to access new content.

Look, don’t get me wrong, I’m not complaining, I never had an issue with the gear treadmill in WoW, but I do find it incredibly ironic how Anet keeps saying GW2 will be different but then it turns out it’s not that different at all.

Anyone who thinks masterys are the same as as gear treadmill, isn’t paying attention.

There ARE similarities but there ARE differences.

The gear gating in WoW tells you you must do specific content to get specific rewards to tackle the next content. In other words, do this raid to get to the next raid. During those raids you may or may not get the drop you want, and you have to repeat the raid.

Here you get experience by doing pretty much anything. You have specific things you do once to guarantee you mastery points.

I don’t like raiding and I hate repeating raids to get the gear I need. This doesn’t seem nearly as restrictive to me.

The caveat being no one has played it yet. But on paper so far, at least, it doesn’t seem that restrictive.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

It’s funny how Anet said they’re not going to turn GW2 into another gear treadmill MMO, then introduces masteries and then it turns out masteries are exactly the same as WoW’s gear treadmill, except instead of grinding for gear to access new content you’re grinding for mastery points to access new content.

Look, don’t get me wrong, I’m not complaining, I never had an issue with the gear treadmill in WoW, but I do find it incredibly ironic how Anet keeps saying GW2 will be different but then it turns out it’s not that different at all.

There are loads of differences between level/gear gating and the mastery gating.

A) level/gear are just numbers while mastery gating has the potential to be much more. Not having the “math” to deal with a situation is not the same as not having the appropriate ability.

The first is used strictly in MMORPG games as to how they gate their content, it feels artificial and forced, you are looking at just numbers. The second is used in a huge variety of different genres of video games, RPGs and Action Adventure games for example where you can’t progress if you are missing a specific item or skill.

Imagine if in order to progress in the latest Tomb Raider game, it required you to grind/farm to get your health high enough, or your damage high enough, so you could survive the next piece of content. It would feel completely dumb and pointless, that’s how regular gear/level gating in MMORPGs feel. Now compare it to how the game actually works, for example requiring the grappling hook to progress through some new area, sure you need to do specific tasks to get that Grappling Hook, but it sure DOES feel completely different to an artifical gear/level gate.

I don’t think anyone can even imagine how those games would be with a traditional MMORPG gating system. I think Masteries will work like that, if they LIMIT the combat masteries and instead focus on the other ones, it will provide a progression system similar to those Action Adventure games.

B) Level/gear affects the entire game, not just the expansion areas. Higher level caps or gear tiers have an adverse effect on the “core” game too. In contrast, the Mastery system allows the developers far more flexibility, Heart of Maguuma masteries can only be used in the Heart of Maguuma, which means players without the expansion are not losing out on those abilities, because they would be useless to them.

To expand this further, when the second GW2 expansion is released, you won’t be “forced” to buy HoT first and then the new expansion. If HoT increased the cap to 90 and the next expansion to 100, then you would be required to get HoT first, the same is true for an improved gear tier. However, the new masteries of the new expansion will affect the new expansion only, while the masteries of the Maguuma will affect the Maguuma and not the new expansion areas.

In my opinion, the “core” Masteries should either be given free for all, not only HoT owners, or at least be included with every expansion released in the future, just like how “Core” skills worked in GW1, available on all campaigns. So, the difference between expansions will be on the more specific masteries, which are completely useless in other expansions… so once again, completely different to how gear/level gating works.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

It’s funny how Anet said they’re not going to turn GW2 into another gear treadmill MMO, then introduces masteries and then it turns out masteries are exactly the same as WoW’s gear treadmill, except instead of grinding for gear to access new content you’re grinding for mastery points to access new content.

Look, don’t get me wrong, I’m not complaining, I never had an issue with the gear treadmill in WoW, but I do find it incredibly ironic how Anet keeps saying GW2 will be different but then it turns out it’s not that different at all.

people need to stop using the word “grind” as synonym for “doing stuff”. by design, it’s IMPOSSIBLE to grind for mastery points, because those points are only given once per task. you can’t keep repeating that task to get more points.

you’re not grinding for mastery points, you’re playing the game to earn something. and it’s a guaranteed reward too, not “chance to earn a point, do again if you didn’t get one”.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

It’s funny how Anet said they’re not going to turn GW2 into another gear treadmill MMO, then introduces masteries and then it turns out masteries are exactly the same as WoW’s gear treadmill, except instead of grinding for gear to access new content you’re grinding for mastery points to access new content.

Look, don’t get me wrong, I’m not complaining, I never had an issue with the gear treadmill in WoW, but I do find it incredibly ironic how Anet keeps saying GW2 will be different but then it turns out it’s not that different at all.

It is also ironic that people don’t realize that the puzzle pieces that create an MMO are pretty much the same and different devs just swap these pieces around to make their MMOs fresh and unique.

Wake up already for the god sake, there is no MMORPG without grind in today’s industry.