Guild Wars 2

I equate HoT to D3:reaper of souls.
And who still plays D3? I sure as hell dont…..

Excludee.3850:

I love the use of the term, “new technology” used to describe an animation applied to the skill bar for revenant swaps. As if it’s some amazing breathrough or something.

Anyways, someone should develop a plug-in for Chrome that blocks Vayne’s nonsensical forum posts. That’s some “new technology” I could get behind.

ANet and other businesses that use that kind of exaggerative speech to describe something that is barely noteworthy has always made me groan. Its use actually tells me quite a lot about a company and the state of their product(s).
ANet uses it a lot, disappointingly. Though they didn’t always.

I had actually made my own extension when I used Opera 12 that I could add a person’s account name to a list and it’ll automatically hide their entire comment blocks while viewing threads. Basically my own block/hide feature for the forums. I finally left O12 to use Firefox some time ago and haven’t converted it over for use here yet. I should look into porting it to FF and Chrome sometime.

Vayne.8563:

No, but I know 300 guys working on a game for a year aren’t doing nothing. That is to say, this would have to be the worst run company in the history of companies if it doesn’t take a long time to create.

These quests aren’t really cut and pasted. They’re hand crafted and it takes more time. They interact with each other and often overlap each other and that takes more time.

This copy paste thing you’re talking about? Not seeing that so much here.

Oh, so now you know how many people were working on the expansion and how long it took too? Lol… you are something else man. Of course, ignore the fact that you have no idea how your numbers compare to other games, too.

Obviously some of it is not cut and pasted, like the dialog. But it’s obvious that the overall design of it is. There’s nothing hand crafted about another escort event or another “kill X number of mobs in Y area.” Creating an event chain would not be hard either if you have tools made for it.

You talk about the idea of a company being badly run if it doesn’t take a while to make stuff, as if time spent is the metric for making good game content. You have no idea what you’re talking about when it comes to the process of making games. That much is obvious. I didn’t want to go there, but since you keep insisting, I feel there’s no point in holding back on that one. They would have to be one of the worst run companies if they didn’t have the sort of tools to make things like their events easy to repeat the creation of.

Perhaps you are taking the phrase “copy/paste” too literally? But I think it’d be obvious that if they copy/pasted entirely, then the content would be exactly the same as other content with different graphics and it’s not.

Anyway, I’m sorry to burst your bubble of rose-colored glasses with which you look at the development of GW2. Its development is not extra-super-hard because the game has a few innovative features. The reason stuff like the Living Story has proven so hard is because, in addition to story they have to write (which has to be strong, since it’s their flagship narrative) and the voice actors they have to hire, they tend to change existing parts of the game world in some way and that’s anything but cost-effective. It goes directly against the idea of saving and re-using assets. In some cases, they have had to both trash old assets and create new ones in their place for part of LS.

But that, I think, is why more recent LS has been so tame in its world-effecting influence. Somebody higher up probably stepped in and said, “This is hurting us more than it helps.” (I remember when that one WP in LA was blocked… that was our piece of LS for that time. Almost like a consolation prize “here’s something at least… we tried.”)

You have to understand that for the most part, when it comes to this subject, I’m speaking from the mindset of a developer, not a player. I hate pulling out experience cards cause it sounds so silly, but I do have some experience making games (albeit on a much smaller scale) and as silly of a major as it may sound, I studied game design in college. I’m not just pulling this stuff out of my theoretical backside. Most of what I’m telling you is the application of general principles applied to scale.

Vayne.8563:

Manthas.6234:

So, could we conclude that a company, which is getting bigger and producing less content is actually… getting lazy?
You say it’s just the way industry works and I agree. But you accept that questionable practice, while I close my pocket.
I never said that the game is not fun anymore. What I’m saying is, that I expected more from this company, but that’s probably just the hype talking, right?

They’re producing more than just content. They’ve changed the way the game is moving forward, whether you like that or not.

They’ve added systems, more than I’ve seen in an expansion. Masteries, specializations, combat mode, gliding and all that entails, in fact, the entire game has basically been rebooted and there’s content.

There was new technology created just for revenant skills, Maybe you think that doesn’t take man hours but it does.

By creating this stuff now, moving forward, future expansions should be larger. Anyway you should probably not use words like lazy when you have no idea how hard anyone is working. It’s not only inflammatory but it’s probably not true.

Even if it were true for a small percentage of devs, there are 300 people working at Anet. Are you suggesting they’re all lazy?

Calling people lazy is a lazy thought process.

I’m a customer, not a game developer. Do I have to be one to say, that your new product doesn’t meet my expectations? I believe not. Do I have to care about what’s going on behind the scenes? No, I pay money and I want decent product. And I want this product at release, not in the nearest future. I paid for expansion, not early beta. I shouldn’t be explaining those things, this is how market works. If it doesn’t, well, the developer is lazy.

I fully understand the distrust towards arenanet. And to make this post a bit longer, here are a few more nitpicks:

Fractals: There was a post from a dev, where he/she descriped that they would look into the new rewards and the s itty scaling.
As a player I feel cheated. Espescially for the rewards. The knowledge about what is going on cant be true. For a dev it should be a five minute task to check the percenteges of each reward, and open 100k chests to verify it. Is it ok? Change the values and commit. Easy. But nop ‘we are looking into it’ and wait over a month for five different values. I dont even play so much fractals, just the dailys. But the way it is handled by the team makes me furious. This is a super easy change, but they are holding back for whatever reason and further alienating the playerbase.
Ohh just to compare: How long did it take anet to change the black lion chest key from the southsun cove map completion?

dungeons: This is the stupiest one for me. They are killing they own content! I know I can still play dungeons. But it was hard to get a pug in TA Aetherpath before hot. And Now? Good luck camping the lfg. For every new player and also for me(i was gone for a long time), it is extremely hard to explore the dungeons that they didnt see. And the armor and weapons require numerous runs.

hot armor: Here are some numbers from a different game, totally unrelated to Guild Wars 2: Guild Wars 1.
13 (14) Armor in the Base game.
10 in factions.
6 in nightfall,
4 in EOTN.
Just 4? Wow this basically like Hot!! Well not really. They where 10 classes, each with a different armor. So it is more like 40 different armor sets. In GW2 there is light, medium and heavy armor… And eotn didnt cost so much :)
The gemstore just shows how easy it is for the team to create new armor (dont even try to justify it with clipping) and how much they dont care about the lack of it in hot.

Gemstore: Gemstore…

updates: There was another post from a dev where he/she told about the legendary collections and how they tested this. What stuck with me was, that they never had the intention to hide a collection item behind a failed event chain. Also they ‘tested’ every part of the collection. It is astonishing how this could happen. And even more astonishing how long it takes them to fix it…

The overall unfinished product HOT: It is beautiful. But everything just feels unfinished. Legendaries? Just three and have fun waiting for the others. Cutscenes? How about low res ones. Horrible bugged main quests for weeks? Sure why not.

In the end I have the feeling that from the 50 people who created GW1, 20 did go away, 30 designed the world (which is beautiful!),the armor, the weapons and everything else in GW2 and the other 220 new people are kittening marketing people creating nice real life trailer and are thinking about new ways to get the most money out of my pocket.

I paid for every Game with a bright smile. I didnt wait for a discount, i didnt try to get the game somewhere else. I paid every game since GW1 in your store. I even bought living story season 2 and first felt guilty about it. But it was wonderful and I was happy after finishing it. I would pay in the future for this kind of content. Not your next stupid skin in the store or black lion keys. Not your boosters or mining tools.
I would pay for content.

I take a look in the world that GW2 and GW1 created. I see so much details and love. Many other players see this also. But with every new skin in your store it looks like anet doesn´t care as much as they used to…

If you want to know why the content being pushed out by Anet has been lackluster go to this link, sign in with with a free account or your Facebook, and just read the reviews by people who have worked there. There’s only about 80 or so, but the vast majority all say the same stuff.

All your questions will be answered… its pretty much what your average critically thinking customer would expect based on the product they are receiving.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/ArenaNet-Reviews-E255820.htm

As you can see with that site anyone can make an account and post what ever they want.

sirsquishy.8531:

I equate HoT to D3:reaper of souls.
And who still plays D3? I sure as hell dont…..

Most ridiculous comparison. Those two have nothing in common. D3 is far superior to HoT. And yer, a lot of people play it, me included.

Excludee.3850:

I love the use of the term, “new technology” used to describe an animation applied to the skill bar for revenant swaps. As if it’s some amazing breathrough or something.

Anyways, someone should develop a plug-in for Chrome that blocks Vayne’s nonsensical forum posts. That’s some “new technology” I could get behind.

New technology means some of the tools used to create the actual skills, like the shield the moves with you. There are things you couldn’t do before, that you new could the require coding.

Manthas.6234:

Vayne.8563:

Manthas.6234:

So, could we conclude that a company, which is getting bigger and producing less content is actually… getting lazy?
You say it’s just the way industry works and I agree. But you accept that questionable practice, while I close my pocket.
I never said that the game is not fun anymore. What I’m saying is, that I expected more from this company, but that’s probably just the hype talking, right?

They’re producing more than just content. They’ve changed the way the game is moving forward, whether you like that or not.

They’ve added systems, more than I’ve seen in an expansion. Masteries, specializations, combat mode, gliding and all that entails, in fact, the entire game has basically been rebooted and there’s content.

There was new technology created just for revenant skills, Maybe you think that doesn’t take man hours but it does.

By creating this stuff now, moving forward, future expansions should be larger. Anyway you should probably not use words like lazy when you have no idea how hard anyone is working. It’s not only inflammatory but it’s probably not true.

Even if it were true for a small percentage of devs, there are 300 people working at Anet. Are you suggesting they’re all lazy?

Calling people lazy is a lazy thought process.

I’m a customer, not a game developer. Do I have to be one to say, that your new product doesn’t meet my expectations? I believe not. Do I have to care about what’s going on behind the scenes? No, I pay money and I want decent product. And I want this product at release, not in the nearest future. I paid for expansion, not early beta. I shouldn’t be explaining those things, this is how market works. If it doesn’t, well, the developer is lazy.

Nope you don’t have to say that. Nor do you have to trot out trite words like lazy to express your dissatisfaction which is a lazy way to complain, and an offensive one.

Anet can’t be lazy, because Anet isn’t a person. Anet is a company comprised of people. It is extremely likely that a percentage of employees of any company are in fact lazy, but the company itself can’t be lazy unless you’re personifying it. Whether you’re a developer, a customer or a norse god is not really relevant to the conversation.

You chose to use a word some would consider to be an insult and directed it at a group of 300 people. So unless every single one of those people is lazy, you’re doing a disservice to them, and you’re potentially being offensive.

If I were working really hard on something and someone called me lazy, yes, I’d take offense. Last I’ll say on the subject since to anyone reading it, this was obvious a while ago. Only someone deliberately ignoring what I’m saying would keep going and what I’m saying is factual. You can’t call a company lazy, without impugning everyone in the company.

Labjax.2465:

Vayne.8563:

No, but I know 300 guys working on a game for a year aren’t doing nothing. That is to say, this would have to be the worst run company in the history of companies if it doesn’t take a long time to create.

These quests aren’t really cut and pasted. They’re hand crafted and it takes more time. They interact with each other and often overlap each other and that takes more time.

This copy paste thing you’re talking about? Not seeing that so much here.

Oh, so now you know how many people were working on the expansion and how long it took too? Lol… you are something else man. Of course, ignore the fact that you have no idea how your numbers compare to other games, too.

Obviously some of it is not cut and pasted, like the dialog. But it’s obvious that the overall design of it is. There’s nothing hand crafted about another escort event or another “kill X number of mobs in Y area.” Creating an event chain would not be hard either if you have tools made for it.

You talk about the idea of a company being badly run if it doesn’t take a while to make stuff, as if time spent is the metric for making good game content. You have no idea what you’re talking about when it comes to the process of making games. That much is obvious. I didn’t want to go there, but since you keep insisting, I feel there’s no point in holding back on that one. They would have to be one of the worst run companies if they didn’t have the sort of tools to make things like their events easy to repeat the creation of.

Perhaps you are taking the phrase “copy/paste” too literally? But I think it’d be obvious that if they copy/pasted entirely, then the content would be exactly the same as other content with different graphics and it’s not.

Anyway, I’m sorry to burst your bubble of rose-colored glasses with which you look at the development of GW2. Its development is not extra-super-hard because the game has a few innovative features. The reason stuff like the Living Story has proven so hard is because, in addition to story they have to write (which has to be strong, since it’s their flagship narrative) and the voice actors they have to hire, they tend to change existing parts of the game world in some way and that’s anything but cost-effective. It goes directly against the idea of saving and re-using assets. In some cases, they have had to both trash old assets and create new ones in their place for part of LS.

But that, I think, is why more recent LS has been so tame in its world-effecting influence. Somebody higher up probably stepped in and said, “This is hurting us more than it helps.” (I remember when that one WP in LA was blocked… that was our piece of LS for that time. Almost like a consolation prize “here’s something at least… we tried.”)

You have to understand that for the most part, when it comes to this subject, I’m speaking from the mindset of a developer, not a player. I hate pulling out experience cards cause it sounds so silly, but I do have some experience making games (albeit on a much smaller scale) and as silly of a major as it may sound, I studied game design in college. I’m not just pulling this stuff out of my theoretical backside. Most of what I’m telling you is the application of general principles applied to scale.

And I’ve worked on creative projects for a good portion of my life, and I know a few things for a fact. It’s often things take longer to produce than the public thinks they dfo and just about all developers know this.

People who say this takes X long or this takes Y long, or this is or isn’t complex without examining the code and what was required to make it are essentially expressing an opinion that is tauntamount ot making stuff up.

Or do you approve of calling people you don’t know and haven’t worked with lazy?

Vayne.8563:

And I’ve worked on creative projects for a good portion of my life, and I know a few things for a fact. It’s often things take longer to produce than the public thinks they dfo and just about all developers know this.

People who say this takes X long or this takes Y long, or this is or isn’t complex without examining the code and what was required to make it are essentially expressing an opinion that is tauntamount ot making stuff up.

Or do you approve of calling people you don’t know and haven’t worked with lazy?

This would be a great rebuttal, if it addressed a single point I actually made.

1) Working on creative projects doesn’t mean you’ve worked on games.

2) “It takes longer than the public perceives.” Ok? This is relevant to what I said how?

3) “People who say this takes X long.” You said a year and 300 people. You’re the one who threw out numbers.

4) Once again, never said zero complexity. But like I said, they would have to be one of the worst run companies if they didn’t have the sort of tools to make things like their events easy to repeat the creation of. And like I said, you obviously know nothing about game development. Creative projects are not all the same, sorry. I wouldn’t pretend to be an authority on filmmaking because I’ve made games, for example, or vice-versa.

Furthermore, you have once again missed the point. BY COMPARISON. There, maybe if I put it in all caps, you won’t miss it. Obviously MMOs are complex. Obviously the design of them is complex. But if we’re comparing games, it’s absurd to act like making new events in GW2 is so much more harderer than in other games. Like I said, if it is, then the GW2 team’s tools are awful, which is highly unlikely for a company of their size and caliber.

It doesn’t take being a fly on the wall inside the GW2 office to figure out that when you have the framework for, for example, an escort event, you can copy that framework for future events. If you couldn’t because you made a system that is impossible to copy, you wouldn’t be very good at your job and your game would become increasingly unstable over time.

5) See where I already said that I’m speaking nothing against the individual developers themselves? And I’m talking about the process of the company itself, which is not something that individual developers control? Don’t try to pull that guilt trip crap with me. Especially when it’s not even relevant to what I’ve said.

I just want new hairstyles & faces already.
It’s the only thing I spend real $ on & the only thing I look forward to as far as the gemstore goes.

Excludee.3850:

I love the use of the term, “new technology” used to describe an animation applied to the skill bar for revenant swaps. As if it’s some amazing breathrough or something.

Anyways, someone should develop a plug-in for Chrome that blocks Vayne’s nonsensical forum posts. That’s some “new technology” I could get behind.

Vayne provided constructive comments with well written paragraph. Instead you straight up attack him, thats really mature right there. Devs need to devolop a tool to block people like you.

I work in a high-level IT infrastructure that caters to NA on an international level… I can tell you that bad management can absolutely disable productivity and progression in a company. The lack of communication on the forums, broken interaction between the game’s sub-systems, slow and otherwise inappropriate handling of bugs in the game really makes the notion that ArenaNet is a dysfunctional organization not too far-fetched.

For me, over the whole lifetime of GW2 so far.. I have spent this much money:
$60 for the original game, standard
$50 for the pre-ordered standard HoT w/ Beta access
About $550 worth of gems over the lifetime of my account, over the years in total.
To not include the price of the game and expansion, I have paid an average of $15 a month on this game, on top of the cost of the game… On skins, services, transfers, certain one-time only deals, content, and the occasional gem>gold conversion early on when making gold was somewhat impossible without dumping hundreds of hours a week to grind it out and abusing the TP.

With what they charge for the game, how much content they release (which is lacking) and given how much people actually spend on the game…

They are not doing us any favors. To white-knight and say ArenaNet is being generous with what they do choose to give us in terms of updates and releases is a joke

For example/proof… You can go to the Android/iOS top grossing app leaderboard wordwide and find one or two funny games at the top… Clash of Clans and Candy Crush

Please Read from Forbes Magazine:

“Finnish mobile game developer Supercell has reported revenue of $892 million for 2013, a significant gain on 2012?s revenue of $101 million. With just two games released (‘Clash of Clans’ and ‘Hay Day’), Supercell has seemingly cracked the winning formula in the mobile space.”

You know, for a mobile game that in total took 150 people to make and maintain, with content not even breaking 300 MB in total, and a development cost so far below that of GW2, they’re making bank

How?

Microtransactions

I want you to be serious with yourself and really ponder how many of your friends, guild mates, players walking past you in game honestly haven’t spent a single dime outside of the original purchase of the game.

Yeah. Don’t think ArenaNet is hurting for money, or can’t make revenue.

They’re slipping into the micro-trans ham-fisted culture of the new gaming era. All those skins? living world content? updates? extras? They are nickle and diming you for stuff they could have included in the expansion that they also charged you money for.

Blizzard offers all their WoW expansions, free 30-days game time, in-game bonuses like mounts and pets, even instant level 100 characters just to pay for the inital game (what is it, like $60 in total now and you get everything?) and just $15 a month. They roll out expansions 2x faster than ArenaNet, all with 2x the content… whether or not its good content is subjective.

So for those of you trying to white-knight and justify their silence and lack of support because its a “non-sub game hur durr… all of it is fwee!”— think again.

They took your money and gave you their 70%… and they’re asking for more of your money.

You okay with watching your favorite MMO fall to this?

I’d like to talk about creating content in an MMO, and the tools to do so. But, like the rest of us, I’ve never done this in GW2. So, I’ll be talking about a different (but terminated) MMO. City of Heroes.

In Issue (Update) 14, City of Heroes launched the “Architect” system, a streamlined and more limited version of the very tools that the devs themselves used to create many of the missions in that game. That’s right, players actually got to make their own missions and plotlines. All you had to do, was actually make the missions.

That… turned out to be harder than you’d think. Even a couple of easy missions required a lot of typing (and spellchecking) just so it didn’t come off like a walk through a bad YouTube comments section. And if you made things more complex, you had to test. A LOT. Even with the game itself doing all of the hard work for you, it was easy to make a mess of your mission objectives or create unintended fail conditions. And this was all in fairly small instances, not linked events spread out over a full zone map.

There were size limitations, too. If you got inventive and started to make your own custom NPCs instead of using stock characters, you could easily run out of room. (And yes, I’m sure the GW2 devs DO have a size limiter on their event files.) Even when the file size was eventually doubled it could still be a problem.

You would often have to dial back some of your more inventive ideas to make them work, and what you would be left with might not be worth the effort of making it. Or it might just turn out that people didn’t like it as much as you thought they would. All in all, it was a lot harder than you’d think to make a good, interesting series of missions. And that wasn’t even the full version of the mission maker that the CoH Devs had to deal with, which was apparently far more complex.

However… it’s also worth noting that sometimes you could pull off amazing things with it. Things it wasn’t ever intended to do. In one mission I managed to adapt the “Rescue an ally” function to create invisible creatures that started to follow the character as they wandered around. And others made stories that hit harder than the game’s Dev-made stories.

So, yes. I respect the very large amount of work that the devs in GW2 have to put in to getting even one event to work right, much less a zone full of interlocking events. But I also have to question the results of their hard work. A lot of it is… not worth the effort in my eyes. I think HoT suffers from a very bad case of Trying Too Hard.

Sheobix.8796:

Blizzard offers all their WoW expansions, free 30-days game time, in-game bonuses like mounts and pets, even instant level 100 characters just to pay for the inital game (what is it, like $60 in total now and you get everything?) and just $15 a month. They roll out expansions 2x faster than ArenaNet, all with 2x the content… whether or not its good content is subjective.

So for those of you trying to white-knight and justify their silence and lack of support because its a “non-sub game hur durr… all of it is fwee!”— think again.

They took your money and gave you their 70%… and they’re asking for more of your money.

You okay with watching your favorite MMO fall to this

1 istand lvl chaacter , and if you want to lvl up another chacratcer this this mechanic you have to pay an extra 10 dollars .
You have to pay 15 dollars per months , if you want to use those ingame mounts+ pets for the rest of the month (sub)
They sell mounts on the cash shop too , with real money only

While no1 is forcing you to buy anything or sub here
Edit: No1 is also forcing you to buy NOW the outfit , and you must get the gold NOW

(3 Bladed armor sets, 3 guild armor sets, 3 leystone armor sets and 1 mistward armor set + 3 Legendary Armor)

I can ask you too , are you really happy that WoW released the x-pack in Semptember and they stop the updates 6 months later , in order to focus their manpower in the next x-pack (summer of 2016) ?
Do you demand there your money too ?
They didnt have enought money or manpower ?

Even if they lost 5 million ppl (50%) their revenew didnt have dent , because of microtransactions

From one Hypocrite to an other , lets not lie to each other :P
(i am w8ing till martch to have a ‘’massive fun’’ on the forums , while giving some breathig room to you all … so dont call from now on the ‘’white knights’’ to answer :P

(I will replay to you in 14 hours , sorry cant be a pleasant companion when i am drunk :P )

Killthehealersffs.8940:

Sheobix.8796:

Blizzard offers all their WoW expansions, free 30-days game time, in-game bonuses like mounts and pets, even instant level 100 characters just to pay for the inital game (what is it, like $60 in total now and you get everything?) and just $15 a month. They roll out expansions 2x faster than ArenaNet, all with 2x the content… whether or not its good content is subjective.

So for those of you trying to white-knight and justify their silence and lack of support because its a “non-sub game hur durr… all of it is fwee!”— think again.

They took your money and gave you their 70%… and they’re asking for more of your money.

You okay with watching your favorite MMO fall to this

1 istand lvl chaacter , and if you want to lvl up another chacratcer this this mechanic you have to pay an extra 10 dollars .
You have to pay 15 dollars per months , if you want to use those ingame mounts+ pets for the rest of the month (sub)
They sell mounts on the cash shop too , with real money only

While no1 is forcing you to buy anything or sub here
Edit: No1 is also forcing you to buy NOW the outfit , and you must get the gold NOW

I can ask you too , are you really happy that WoW released the x-pack in Semptember and they stop the updates 6 months later , in order to focus their manpower in the next x-pack (summer of 2016) ?
Do you demand there your money too ?
They didnt have enought money or manpower ?

Even if they lost 5 million ppl (50%) their revenew didnt have dent , because of microtransactions

From one Hypocrite to an other , lets not lie to each other :P
(i am w8ing till martch to have a ‘’massive fun’’ on the forums , while giving some breathig room to you all … so dont call from now on the ‘’white knights’’ to answer :P

(I will replay to you in 14 hours , sorry cant be a pleasant companion when i am drunk :P )

hypocrite?

ah, k.

Blizzard/Activision Entertainment does continue to roll out support and updates regularly past their expansion releases, in fact, their whole game (to include the vanilla experience) has probably been revamped multiple times during each expansion release.

I’m not a big fan of WoW though, since I’m not huge into running a raid 500x over on multiple difficulties and playing hard-roles in PvP based on class, but as a given fact, they have offered more per your individual spent dollar than ArenaNet has, hands down.

Just in “armor skins” alone, their database has over 1000 pages of listed armor pieces available in game.

GW2 offers armor set bonuses, with the same double-digit amount of sets given for each armor class. while the argument “but GW2 is only three years old, WoW is like, 10
+ years old!” keep in mind you’re still looking at over 1000 pages of items just for armor alone in a universe GW2 is competing with, asking for similar $’s per subsequent release. Why pay for less?

And also inb4 someone says “wow blizzard must pay you a lot” I don’t have an active sub to that MMO nor do I recommend it, it’s just an objective view on what you’re getting for how much you’re paying.

edit: also, if i wanted to pay gems>gold to pay for a crafted 1-80 toon to “jump start” into HoT like Blizzard offers for free with new subscribers to their new expansions, I’d effectively be paying that extra $10 up front, on top of buying HoT.

But you’re drunk.. so I don’t expect you’d have thought about that beforehand.

Vayne.8563:

Nope you don’t have to say that. Nor do you have to trot out trite words like lazy to express your dissatisfaction which is a lazy way to complain, and an offensive one.

Anet can’t be lazy, because Anet isn’t a person. Anet is a company comprised of people. It is extremely likely that a percentage of employees of any company are in fact lazy, but the company itself can’t be lazy unless you’re personifying it. Whether you’re a developer, a customer or a norse god is not really relevant to the conversation.

You chose to use a word some would consider to be an insult and directed it at a group of 300 people. So unless every single one of those people is lazy, you’re doing a disservice to them, and you’re potentially being offensive.

If I were working really hard on something and someone called me lazy, yes, I’d take offense. Last I’ll say on the subject since to anyone reading it, this was obvious a while ago. Only someone deliberately ignoring what I’m saying would keep going and what I’m saying is factual. You can’t call a company lazy, without impugning everyone in the company.

Really? Are we really talking about how word “lazy” should be used? Ok.

First of all, be honest with yourself. I’m pretty sure you were not running around at release (when reviews were glowing) saying how we can’t praise Anet, because it’s not a person. There still could have been one slacking programmer, you know

Secondly, companies have personalities, in fact, they’re juridical persons. Companies are not the people working for them. For example, 2 of 3 Anet founders have left the company, does it meen Anet is no longer Anet? No. It’s still the same company, even though it changed over the years (people change too, right?). Companies could be good, evil, corrupt and yes, lazy. Its personality is represented by:
1) the people working there. It’s usually the senior officers, but there’re a lot of exceptions. In Anet case, that would be every red post we see on forums. Yes, there’s a living human being with the name who says something on those forums, but in the end, we remember that it was the Anet, who said that thing. Anet can’t go behind that persons back and say: “Dont look at me, it was he who said you that the fractal rewards will be fixed” (yeah, I know it’s still December).
2) its work. It this case that would be the expansion. And if someone, who had the ability and resources to produce something good, presents me a half-finished product… well, I have a pretty nice word to describe that person.

Basically, you say that I can’t call Anet lazy, because that would hurt their feelings. Well, it’s the reality talking and guys from South Park even made an episode about this. Saying anything else just gives them a wrong message that they could get away with this. No, they can’t.
Yes, you could say that my critisim is not constructive. But how can I been constructive when all I want to say is “give me more stuff for the money I paid”?

If you want to pay acompany that can earn 5.000.000 -10.000.000 players x 15 dollars per month = 75.000.000-150.000.000 per month
215.000.000-450.000.000 per 3 months (without the bonus from the x-pack sales + the microtransations in their store) , you are freely to do it

But dont come here saying why the Arenanet is hungry for our money , when every 3 months creates 21.000.000 per 3 months (and you are not forced in any way to give them money )

If you want to go to play a game where it will release scale mobs down based on your lvl + has timetravel dungeons (you scale down) , you can increase the difficulty of the dungeons from extra rewards (fractals) + more focus in outdoor World Bosses + release wardrope you can play …. and pay the sub …

I mean something Arenanet is doing trully right , after all …..

How many Sets do they release with each x-pack ?
8 unipue per class Blue Dungeons sets + 8 LFG Exotics + 8 Mythic (with some ornaments from the LFG one) = 24

How many did GW2 realase ?
10
3 Bladed armor sets, 3 guild armor sets, 3 leystone armor sets and 1 mistward armor set . (3 Legendary Armor-3 Precursor + 3 Legendary Weapons-Specialization mambo-jumbo+PvP Backpiece are exluded)
= with a lower bugdet
+ they had the Semptember Feature patch
+ they release Living Story Updates
+ they focused in the localization in china
+ the focused their manpower to finish the x-pack
All these is a very closly timeline

And they realease 6 outfits, where THEY DONT EXPIRE ….YOU DONT HAVE TO GATHER NOW GOLD
When i drunk i am god , and i dont feel bad , about other ppl feeling bad :P

(Edit: Vayne let them to do what they want :P)

Killthehealersffs.8940:

If you want to pay acompany that can earn 5.000.000 -10.000.000 players x 15 dollars per month = 75.000.000-150.000.000 per month
215.000.000-450.000.000 per 3 months (without the bonus from the x-pack sales + the microtransations in their store) , you are freely to do it

But dont come here saying why the Arenanet is hungry for our money , when every 3 months creates 21.000.000 per 3 months (and you are not forced in any way to give them money )

If you want to go to play a game where it will release scale mobs down based on your lvl + has timetravel dungeons (you scale down) , you can increase the difficulty of the dungeons from extra rewards (fractals) + more focus in outdoor World Bosses + release wardrope you can play …. and pay the sub …

I mean something Arenanet is doing trully right , after all …..

How many Sets do they release with each x-pack ?
8 unipue per class Blue Dungeons sets + 8 LFG Exotics + 8 Mythic (with some ornaments from the LFG one) = 24

How many did GW2 realase ?
10
3 Bladed armor sets, 3 guild armor sets, 3 leystone armor sets and 1 mistward armor set . (3 Legendary Armor-3 Precursor + 3 Legendary Weapons-Specialization mambo-jumbo+PvP Backpiece are exluded)
= with a lower bugdet
+ they had the Semptember Feature patch
+ they release Living Story Updates
+ they focused in the localization in china
+ the focused their manpower to finish the x-pack
All these is a very closly timeline

And they realease 6 outfits, where THEY DONT EXPIRE ….YOU DONT HAVE TO GATHER NOW GOLD
When i drunk i am god , and i dont feel bad , about other ppl feeling bad :P

(Edit: Vayne let them to do what they want :P)

Don’t do math when you are drunk

Vayne.8563:

Kerin.9125:

Vayne.8563:

Anet isn’t a 50 person company anymore it’s a 300 person company and those people do have to get paid. The cash shop is how that happens.

So 50 people made GW2, which was great, and it took 300 to create the meh that much of HOT is.

I suggest a large-scale deployment (outside Anet) is needed to put things back the way they were.

No 50 people made Guild Wars 1.

250 people made Guild Wars 2. Your facts are in error.

Okay, so the 250 that made GW2 great clearly aren’t the same that made GW3 a throw-back to the 1990s.

Manthas.6234:

Vayne.8563:

Nope you don’t have to say that. Nor do you have to trot out trite words like lazy to express your dissatisfaction which is a lazy way to complain, and an offensive one.

Anet can’t be lazy, because Anet isn’t a person. Anet is a company comprised of people. It is extremely likely that a percentage of employees of any company are in fact lazy, but the company itself can’t be lazy unless you’re personifying it. Whether you’re a developer, a customer or a norse god is not really relevant to the conversation.

You chose to use a word some would consider to be an insult and directed it at a group of 300 people. So unless every single one of those people is lazy, you’re doing a disservice to them, and you’re potentially being offensive.

If I were working really hard on something and someone called me lazy, yes, I’d take offense. Last I’ll say on the subject since to anyone reading it, this was obvious a while ago. Only someone deliberately ignoring what I’m saying would keep going and what I’m saying is factual. You can’t call a company lazy, without impugning everyone in the company.

Really? Are we really talking about how word “lazy” should be used? Ok.

First of all, be honest with yourself. I’m pretty sure you were not running around at release (when reviews were glowing) saying how we can’t praise Anet, because it’s not a person. There still could have been one slacking programmer, you know

Secondly, companies have personalities, in fact, they’re juridical persons. Companies are not the people working for them. For example, 2 of 3 Anet founders have left the company, does it meen Anet is no longer Anet? No. It’s still the same company, even though it changed over the years (people change too, right?). Companies could be good, evil, corrupt and yes, lazy. Its personality is represented by:
1) the people working there. It’s usually the senior officers, but there’re a lot of exceptions. In Anet case, that would be every red post we see on forums. Yes, there’s a living human being with the name who says something on those forums, but in the end, we remember that it was the Anet, who said that thing. Anet can’t go behind that persons back and say: “Dont look at me, it was he who said you that the fractal rewards will be fixed” (yeah, I know it’s still December).
2) its work. It this case that would be the expansion. And if someone, who had the ability and resources to produce something good, presents me a half-finished product… well, I have a pretty nice word to describe that person.

Basically, you say that I can’t call Anet lazy, because that would hurt their feelings. Well, it’s the reality talking and guys from South Park even made an episode about this. Saying anything else just gives them a wrong message that they could get away with this. No, they can’t.
Yes, you could say that my critisim is not constructive. But how can I been constructive when all I want to say is “give me more stuff for the money I paid”?

If you’re defending your use of lazy to describe a group of people, my conversation with you is pretty much over. Using a legal fiction to create some type of reality is what lawyers do. It’s offensive to call people lazy if you don’t know how hard the work and doing so only makes your argument weak. Surely you can complain without inventing stuff.

As for getting your money’s worth, you’re absolutely entitled to that opinion. I have no problem with you feeling that.

But using the word lazy? I can have no respect for that argument.

YaYa.5879:

daniellepierce.9718:

If you want to know why the content being pushed out by Anet has been lackluster go to this link, sign in with with a free account or your Facebook, and just read the reviews by people who have worked there. There’s only about 80 or so, but the vast majority all say the same stuff.

All your questions will be answered… its pretty much what your average critically thinking customer would expect based on the product they are receiving.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/ArenaNet-Reviews-E255820.htm

Woaw… speechless

But what i feel is the most insulting is the lack of communication.
Yes the game is unfinished, yes the 95% of the new skins aren’t unlockable in the game but in the gemstore, yes fractals have been garbage for almost 2 months, yes dungeons have became a waistland BUT all of this, all these flaws could have been ignored (at least by me) if Anet communicated with us.

This technique of not telling us Kitten, is toxic for their image and for our experience. We paid for an unfinished product and they refuse to give us information now that they have our money.

Actions above words. The moment first reports surfaced about something they should’ve gotten on to it. They are paid to do that.

Also, don’t be ignorant about anything important. Being ignorant, among other things, is the reason why things fall apart.

really, is this anything that we have not come to expect of Anet? They have been doing this for a long time now.

Killthehealersffs.8940:

If you want to pay acompany that can earn 5.000.000 -10.000.000 players x 15 dollars per month = 75.000.000-150.000.000 per month
215.000.000-450.000.000 per 3 months (without the bonus from the x-pack sales + the microtransations in their store) , you are freely to do it

But dont come here saying why the Arenanet is hungry for our money , when every 3 months creates 21.000.000 per 3 months (and you are not forced in any way to give them money )

If you want to go to play a game where it will release scale mobs down based on your lvl + has timetravel dungeons (you scale down) , you can increase the difficulty of the dungeons from extra rewards (fractals) + more focus in outdoor World Bosses + release wardrope you can play …. and pay the sub …

I mean something Arenanet is doing trully right , after all …..

How many Sets do they release with each x-pack ?
8 unipue per class Blue Dungeons sets + 8 LFG Exotics + 8 Mythic (with some ornaments from the LFG one) = 24

How many did GW2 realase ?
10
3 Bladed armor sets, 3 guild armor sets, 3 leystone armor sets and 1 mistward armor set . (3 Legendary Armor-3 Precursor + 3 Legendary Weapons-Specialization mambo-jumbo+PvP Backpiece are exluded)
= with a lower bugdet
+ they had the Semptember Feature patch
+ they release Living Story Updates
+ they focused in the localization in china
+ the focused their manpower to finish the x-pack
All these is a very closly timeline

And they realease 6 outfits, where THEY DONT EXPIRE ….YOU DONT HAVE TO GATHER NOW GOLD
When i drunk i am god , and i dont feel bad , about other ppl feeling bad :P

(Edit: Vayne let them to do what they want :P)

hahaha.. so drunk.

It took them 3 years to get their things together to put out an expansion that delivered half of what any other major MMO expansion would have delivered, for the same price.

The trickledown comes from the gem store, and the point was that while you’re not forced to use the gem store, it’s definitely a heavy presence in the game given that they are locking all the new armor/skins and even some content like living world is in the gem store.

Also take into account how they’ve skinned the rewards from nearly every aspect of gameplay to “balance the economy” when really its only going to create a greater incentive for new/returning players to $>Gem>Gold to keep up with the power creep, both with having to buy the expansion to be competitive, and to make up for the horrid drop rates for crafting materials to get ascended gear.

“+ they had the Semptember Feature patch
+ they release Living Story Updates
+ they focused in the localization in china
+ the focused their manpower to finish the x-pack”

september feature pack was mainly a UI polishing effort that can take literally 2-3 people working on it to accomplish within a few months.

Living story hasn’t seen an update in a while, and they locked the old content in the gemstore. It is a strong source of a lot of tyria core mastery points too— who wouldv’e guessed.

localization isn’t a task that hampers the entire company

your last statement has no point, or lacks any evidence

but then again, you’re drunk. I mean, you showed us your maffs yourself.. they literally gave us half of what a competitor in the market has delivered and asked for more money, and continued to ask for money after you bought the product because of all the stuff they’re filling the gem store with.

Sheobix.8796:

Blizzard offers all their WoW expansions, free 30-days game time, in-game bonuses like mounts and pets, even instant level 100 characters just to pay for the inital game (what is it, like $60 in total now and you get everything?) and just $15 a month. They roll out expansions 2x faster than ArenaNet, all with 2x the content… whether or not its good content is subjective.

In addition to a monthly subscription fee, WoW also has a cash shop that sells some of the nicest looking mounts that you cannot earn in game. Also, that instant level 100 toon? You get one with the price of the expansion, after that it’s $60 each.

YaYa.5879:

This technique of not telling us Kitten, is toxic for their image and for our experience. We paid for an unfinished product and they refuse to give us information now that they have our money.

Their lack of communication creates a void which eventually gets filled by toxic people. Instead of getting information from the developers, we “figure out” the facts about the state of the game ourselves and it’s never a positive state

Sheobix.8796:

hahaha.. so drunk.
It took them 3 years to get their things together to put out an expansion that delivered half of what any other major MMO expansion would have delivered, for the same price.

Excusez-moi, mademoiselle , but before you type, do you think about what to say ?
Where did you not get the part that other games releases mass amount of land in every map , BECAUSE THEY CALCULATED THAT YOU ARE ALLREADY THAT YOU HOP ON YOUR HORSE WITH 100% SPEED and you traverce the map ?
Or the 1 Raid they release after the 1st month , so they community to have to time to gear up ?
Or the 5-7 Dungeons where the ppl do once to lvl up and forget about them ?

Sheobix.8796:

The trickledown comes from the gem store, and the point was that while you’re not forced to use the gem store, it’s definitely a heavy presence in the game given that they are locking all the new armor/skins and even some content like living world is in the gem store.

1) Outfits are not Armors = you cannont use single pieces to combine them with other gear = you stuck with them
2) Even those outfits if they could be created to be droped inside and you can choose each of their piece indivindual = the would scrap and delete them before they made it in the live game
= Because You cant have an Enginner with Medium Gear to Wear plates or any Fairy-Light gear (its a fantasy MMo)

IF YOU HAVE STARTED TO WATCH CLOSLY ON THE FORUMS , YOU SHOULD HAVE SEEN THAT OTHER PPL HAVE TO TOLD YOU = IF A FRIEND OR GUILD MEMBER OR A STRANGER IS IN YOUR PARTY AND HE HAS UNLOCK THE SPECIFIC LIVING STORY , AND HE STARTS IT = YOU WILL GET IT FOR FREE
But you are right i havent thought i long ….. or i cant collect informations ………

Sheobix.8796:

Also take into account how they’ve skinned the rewards from nearly every aspect of gameplay to “balance the economy” when really its only going to create a greater incentive for new/returning players to $>Gem>Gold to keep up with the power creep, both with having to buy the expansion to be competitive, and to make up for the horrid drop rates for crafting materials to get ascended gear.

I dont argue with you …. about using overpower skilled to sell the x-pack ,
but in other hand introducing ’’Nootubes’’ (check 1:59 —-- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w) did really worked and we saw at the tournaments newer team,s overthrown OLd ones )

Ascended mats can be aquired without using any dime in the trading post = but collecting yourself
But the silly thing most dont like in the Daily-you can make limited mats per day

Sheobix.8796:

september feature pack was mainly a UI polishing effort that can take literally 2-3 people working on it to accomplish within a few months.

Living story hasn’t seen an update in a while, and they locked the old content in the gemstore. It is a strong source of a lot of tyria core mastery points too— who wouldv’e guessed.

localization isn’t a task that hampers the entire company

your last statement has no point, or lacks any evidence

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/feature-packs/
Yeah The Semptember + April its was an UI cleance where 2-3 ppl where needed ……

The localized > Release the rest of the Living Season 1 + those World updates +season 2
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Release
> Feature patches > the had the rest of the Living Story till January > they moved to finish the x-pack for the Betas in May .
While the rst of the games have a drought for 8-12 months to prepere for the next x-pack .

Like Contructions Buildings theres a limited amount of ppl that creates the foundation-sceleton and later on at the end . they call the rest guys that paints the whole place + the electricians to place the wirrings and some other dudes ?
Few ppl and slowly over the year they do the ’’sceleton’’ and the majority moves to finish it at the end .

IF YOU HAVE STARTED TO WATCH CLOSLY ON THE FORUMS , YOU SHOULD HAVE SEEN THAT OTHER PPL HAVE TO TOLD YOU = IF A FRIEND OR GUILD MEMBER OR A STRANGER IS IN YOUR PARTY AND HE HAS UNLOCK THE SPECIFIC LIVING STORY , AND HE STARTS IT = YOU WILL GET IT FOR FREE
But you are right i havent thought i long ….. or i cant collect informations ………

Sheobix.8796:

but then again, you’re drunk. I mean, you showed us your maffs yourself.. they literally gave us half of what a competitor in the market has delivered and asked for more money, and continued to ask for money after you bought the product because of all the stuff they’re filling the gem store with.

Yeah i drunk , they only think i can see is somespecific kids -with specific names(not you) that whine all the time in the forums , thinnking they can pressure the company try to company to not sell any more x-packs or lower the future price …

Some specific kid started to tell me that he hates that the Outfits are placed in the gemstore …. and that they are so superb that the community must throw real money NOW to them (or they have to grind gold NOW NOW otherwise they will loose to the competition/other ppl….)
And later on that kid , tells us to ask to crate a riot and ask us if we are happy ,when the same kid is happily paying in WoW …but guess what … they stopped the updates 6 months later …. and i dont see that guy asking for his money back there too

That kid dont understand , that landmass in other games is created in mind that the population will rush throught with their 1005-280% speed mounts ….

And that GW2 will resume the updates on January …….

Should i argue with more ppl to close thje thread , or not … that is the question :P
(do you see D..ata how huch boring this monologue is ? Or how is wrong is to dictate ppl ? …)

Edit: Yeah , its not martch so i leave you alone :P
cya

Vayne.8563:

Manthas.6234:

Vayne.8563:

Nope you don’t have to say that. Nor do you have to trot out trite words like lazy to express your dissatisfaction which is a lazy way to complain, and an offensive one.

Anet can’t be lazy, because Anet isn’t a person. Anet is a company comprised of people. It is extremely likely that a percentage of employees of any company are in fact lazy, but the company itself can’t be lazy unless you’re personifying it. Whether you’re a developer, a customer or a norse god is not really relevant to the conversation.

You chose to use a word some would consider to be an insult and directed it at a group of 300 people. So unless every single one of those people is lazy, you’re doing a disservice to them, and you’re potentially being offensive.

If I were working really hard on something and someone called me lazy, yes, I’d take offense. Last I’ll say on the subject since to anyone reading it, this was obvious a while ago. Only someone deliberately ignoring what I’m saying would keep going and what I’m saying is factual. You can’t call a company lazy, without impugning everyone in the company.

Really? Are we really talking about how word “lazy” should be used? Ok.

First of all, be honest with yourself. I’m pretty sure you were not running around at release (when reviews were glowing) saying how we can’t praise Anet, because it’s not a person. There still could have been one slacking programmer, you know

Secondly, companies have personalities, in fact, they’re juridical persons. Companies are not the people working for them. For example, 2 of 3 Anet founders have left the company, does it meen Anet is no longer Anet? No. It’s still the same company, even though it changed over the years (people change too, right?). Companies could be good, evil, corrupt and yes, lazy. Its personality is represented by:
1) the people working there. It’s usually the senior officers, but there’re a lot of exceptions. In Anet case, that would be every red post we see on forums. Yes, there’s a living human being with the name who says something on those forums, but in the end, we remember that it was the Anet, who said that thing. Anet can’t go behind that persons back and say: “Dont look at me, it was he who said you that the fractal rewards will be fixed” (yeah, I know it’s still December).
2) its work. It this case that would be the expansion. And if someone, who had the ability and resources to produce something good, presents me a half-finished product… well, I have a pretty nice word to describe that person.

Basically, you say that I can’t call Anet lazy, because that would hurt their feelings. Well, it’s the reality talking and guys from South Park even made an episode about this. Saying anything else just gives them a wrong message that they could get away with this. No, they can’t.
Yes, you could say that my critisim is not constructive. But how can I been constructive when all I want to say is “give me more stuff for the money I paid”?

If you’re defending your use of lazy to describe a group of people, my conversation with you is pretty much over. Using a legal fiction to create some type of reality is what lawyers do. It’s offensive to call people lazy if you don’t know how hard the work and doing so only makes your argument weak. Surely you can complain without inventing stuff.

As for getting your money’s worth, you’re absolutely entitled to that opinion. I have no problem with you feeling that.

But using the word lazy? I can have no respect for that argument.

By the gods do I love you. You are so freaking good at this.

But i am curious because he actually makes a valid point. Is there a list of words that you are ok using to describe a company? Just the positive ones then?

Wryscher.1432:

Vayne.8563:

Manthas.6234:

Vayne.8563:

Nope you don’t have to say that. Nor do you have to trot out trite words like lazy to express your dissatisfaction which is a lazy way to complain, and an offensive one.

Anet can’t be lazy, because Anet isn’t a person. Anet is a company comprised of people. It is extremely likely that a percentage of employees of any company are in fact lazy, but the company itself can’t be lazy unless you’re personifying it. Whether you’re a developer, a customer or a norse god is not really relevant to the conversation.

You chose to use a word some would consider to be an insult and directed it at a group of 300 people. So unless every single one of those people is lazy, you’re doing a disservice to them, and you’re potentially being offensive.

If I were working really hard on something and someone called me lazy, yes, I’d take offense. Last I’ll say on the subject since to anyone reading it, this was obvious a while ago. Only someone deliberately ignoring what I’m saying would keep going and what I’m saying is factual. You can’t call a company lazy, without impugning everyone in the company.

Really? Are we really talking about how word “lazy” should be used? Ok.

First of all, be honest with yourself. I’m pretty sure you were not running around at release (when reviews were glowing) saying how we can’t praise Anet, because it’s not a person. There still could have been one slacking programmer, you know

Secondly, companies have personalities, in fact, they’re juridical persons. Companies are not the people working for them. For example, 2 of 3 Anet founders have left the company, does it meen Anet is no longer Anet? No. It’s still the same company, even though it changed over the years (people change too, right?). Companies could be good, evil, corrupt and yes, lazy. Its personality is represented by:
1) the people working there. It’s usually the senior officers, but there’re a lot of exceptions. In Anet case, that would be every red post we see on forums. Yes, there’s a living human being with the name who says something on those forums, but in the end, we remember that it was the Anet, who said that thing. Anet can’t go behind that persons back and say: “Dont look at me, it was he who said you that the fractal rewards will be fixed” (yeah, I know it’s still December).
2) its work. It this case that would be the expansion. And if someone, who had the ability and resources to produce something good, presents me a half-finished product… well, I have a pretty nice word to describe that person.

Basically, you say that I can’t call Anet lazy, because that would hurt their feelings. Well, it’s the reality talking and guys from South Park even made an episode about this. Saying anything else just gives them a wrong message that they could get away with this. No, they can’t.
Yes, you could say that my critisim is not constructive. But how can I been constructive when all I want to say is “give me more stuff for the money I paid”?

If you’re defending your use of lazy to describe a group of people, my conversation with you is pretty much over. Using a legal fiction to create some type of reality is what lawyers do. It’s offensive to call people lazy if you don’t know how hard the work and doing so only makes your argument weak. Surely you can complain without inventing stuff.

As for getting your money’s worth, you’re absolutely entitled to that opinion. I have no problem with you feeling that.

But using the word lazy? I can have no respect for that argument.

By the gods do I love you. You are so freaking good at this.

But i am curious because he actually makes a valid point. Is there a list of words that you are ok using to describe a company? Just the positive ones then?

I’m not sure it’s necessary to malign the company to critique the game at all. Look, I’m a professional editor and I’ve been in my critique group settings. Nothing like what appears on this forums would be allowed. I’m also older and find a lot of stuff to be disrespectful and rude.

So it’s very easy to say, I don’t feel like the expansion has enough content for what I paid. I expected more. That’s a perfectly valid criticism. It doesn’t impugn the devs. It doesn’t blame or set fault. It states it as a fact.

Saying that the devs are lazy is not constructive, it helps no one, not a single person and it’s almost definitely untrue. If Anet has an issue it’s more likely to be an organizational one than one of laziness.

But again, I don’t work there, I don’t see the devs every day and I think it’s bad to draw conclusions about them based on the game. If I want to critique something an author wrote, I focus on the work. I don’t use language to malign the author.

I could say you’re too lazy to have done the research but who does that help?

It is pretty clear from some posts in this thread that some people do not know the definition of the word lazy.

Vayne.8563:

I’m not sure it’s necessary to malign the company to critique the game at all.

It’s absolutely unnecessary. It’s either people acting out because it’s the internet and the consequences are trivial, or it’s a bald-faced (and ill-advised) attempt to shame the developer into acting. Either way, it’s rude and uncalled for.

Vayne.8563:

Wryscher.1432:

Vayne.8563:

Manthas.6234:

Vayne.8563:

Nope you don’t have to say that. Nor do you have to trot out trite words like lazy to express your dissatisfaction which is a lazy way to complain, and an offensive one.

Anet can’t be lazy, because Anet isn’t a person. Anet is a company comprised of people. It is extremely likely that a percentage of employees of any company are in fact lazy, but the company itself can’t be lazy unless you’re personifying it. Whether you’re a developer, a customer or a norse god is not really relevant to the conversation.

You chose to use a word some would consider to be an insult and directed it at a group of 300 people. So unless every single one of those people is lazy, you’re doing a disservice to them, and you’re potentially being offensive.

If I were working really hard on something and someone called me lazy, yes, I’d take offense. Last I’ll say on the subject since to anyone reading it, this was obvious a while ago. Only someone deliberately ignoring what I’m saying would keep going and what I’m saying is factual. You can’t call a company lazy, without impugning everyone in the company.

Really? Are we really talking about how word “lazy” should be used? Ok.

First of all, be honest with yourself. I’m pretty sure you were not running around at release (when reviews were glowing) saying how we can’t praise Anet, because it’s not a person. There still could have been one slacking programmer, you know

Secondly, companies have personalities, in fact, they’re juridical persons. Companies are not the people working for them. For example, 2 of 3 Anet founders have left the company, does it meen Anet is no longer Anet? No. It’s still the same company, even though it changed over the years (people change too, right?). Companies could be good, evil, corrupt and yes, lazy. Its personality is represented by:
1) the people working there. It’s usually the senior officers, but there’re a lot of exceptions. In Anet case, that would be every red post we see on forums. Yes, there’s a living human being with the name who says something on those forums, but in the end, we remember that it was the Anet, who said that thing. Anet can’t go behind that persons back and say: “Dont look at me, it was he who said you that the fractal rewards will be fixed” (yeah, I know it’s still December).
2) its work. It this case that would be the expansion. And if someone, who had the ability and resources to produce something good, presents me a half-finished product… well, I have a pretty nice word to describe that person.

Basically, you say that I can’t call Anet lazy, because that would hurt their feelings. Well, it’s the reality talking and guys from South Park even made an episode about this. Saying anything else just gives them a wrong message that they could get away with this. No, they can’t.
Yes, you could say that my critisim is not constructive. But how can I been constructive when all I want to say is “give me more stuff for the money I paid”?

If you’re defending your use of lazy to describe a group of people, my conversation with you is pretty much over. Using a legal fiction to create some type of reality is what lawyers do. It’s offensive to call people lazy if you don’t know how hard the work and doing so only makes your argument weak. Surely you can complain without inventing stuff.

As for getting your money’s worth, you’re absolutely entitled to that opinion. I have no problem with you feeling that.

But using the word lazy? I can have no respect for that argument.

By the gods do I love you. You are so freaking good at this.

But i am curious because he actually makes a valid point. Is there a list of words that you are ok using to describe a company? Just the positive ones then?

I’m not sure it’s necessary to malign the company to critique the game at all. Look, I’m a professional editor and I’ve been in my critique group settings. Nothing like what appears on this forums would be allowed. I’m also older and find a lot of stuff to be disrespectful and rude.

So it’s very easy to say, I don’t feel like the expansion has enough content for what I paid. I expected more. That’s a perfectly valid criticism. It doesn’t impugn the devs. It doesn’t blame or set fault. It states it as a fact.

Saying that the devs are lazy is not constructive, it helps no one, not a single person and it’s almost definitely untrue. If Anet has an issue it’s more likely to be an organizational one than one of laziness.

But again, I don’t work there, I don’t see the devs every day and I think it’s bad to draw conclusions about them based on the game. If I want to critique something an author wrote, I focus on the work. I don’t use language to malign the author.

I could say you’re too lazy to have done the research but who does that help?

First of all, has the lazy become the new n-word?
Secondly, it was never the statement of fact. I don’t know how hard working they are and you don’t know it either. It’s an assumption based on the facts I have and I all have have is an expansion.
Does calling someone lazy help? I don’t know. It’s a feedback from a player and a negative one. It’s not about giving an advise on how to fix this or that. It’s all about saying that what you gave us at release was more than enough and what you are giving us now is not. I do not compare Anet to other authors. I am comparing the creators work now with it’s previous work. Does the “now” pale when comparing with the “past”? In my opinion, yes (and, as you said, I am entitled to that opinion). You could say that I could have draw the line here. Yes, I could have. But I am a customer. I don’t have time for this “in my opinion, developer used to give us more stuff”. I have one simple word and use it when I feel the need to. Anet is not a child. I don’t have to hold its hand and try not to make it cry. It’s a cold and unforgiving market. Deal with this.

Manthas.6234:

Vayne.8563:

Wryscher.1432:

Vayne.8563:

Manthas.6234:

Vayne.8563:

Nope you don’t have to say that. Nor do you have to trot out trite words like lazy to express your dissatisfaction which is a lazy way to complain, and an offensive one.

Anet can’t be lazy, because Anet isn’t a person. Anet is a company comprised of people. It is extremely likely that a percentage of employees of any company are in fact lazy, but the company itself can’t be lazy unless you’re personifying it. Whether you’re a developer, a customer or a norse god is not really relevant to the conversation.

You chose to use a word some would consider to be an insult and directed it at a group of 300 people. So unless every single one of those people is lazy, you’re doing a disservice to them, and you’re potentially being offensive.

If I were working really hard on something and someone called me lazy, yes, I’d take offense. Last I’ll say on the subject since to anyone reading it, this was obvious a while ago. Only someone deliberately ignoring what I’m saying would keep going and what I’m saying is factual. You can’t call a company lazy, without impugning everyone in the company.

Really? Are we really talking about how word “lazy” should be used? Ok.

First of all, be honest with yourself. I’m pretty sure you were not running around at release (when reviews were glowing) saying how we can’t praise Anet, because it’s not a person. There still could have been one slacking programmer, you know

Secondly, companies have personalities, in fact, they’re juridical persons. Companies are not the people working for them. For example, 2 of 3 Anet founders have left the company, does it meen Anet is no longer Anet? No. It’s still the same company, even though it changed over the years (people change too, right?). Companies could be good, evil, corrupt and yes, lazy. Its personality is represented by:
1) the people working there. It’s usually the senior officers, but there’re a lot of exceptions. In Anet case, that would be every red post we see on forums. Yes, there’s a living human being with the name who says something on those forums, but in the end, we remember that it was the Anet, who said that thing. Anet can’t go behind that persons back and say: “Dont look at me, it was he who said you that the fractal rewards will be fixed” (yeah, I know it’s still December).
2) its work. It this case that would be the expansion. And if someone, who had the ability and resources to produce something good, presents me a half-finished product… well, I have a pretty nice word to describe that person.

Basically, you say that I can’t call Anet lazy, because that would hurt their feelings. Well, it’s the reality talking and guys from South Park even made an episode about this. Saying anything else just gives them a wrong message that they could get away with this. No, they can’t.
Yes, you could say that my critisim is not constructive. But how can I been constructive when all I want to say is “give me more stuff for the money I paid”?

If you’re defending your use of lazy to describe a group of people, my conversation with you is pretty much over. Using a legal fiction to create some type of reality is what lawyers do. It’s offensive to call people lazy if you don’t know how hard the work and doing so only makes your argument weak. Surely you can complain without inventing stuff.

As for getting your money’s worth, you’re absolutely entitled to that opinion. I have no problem with you feeling that.

But using the word lazy? I can have no respect for that argument.

By the gods do I love you. You are so freaking good at this.

But i am curious because he actually makes a valid point. Is there a list of words that you are ok using to describe a company? Just the positive ones then?

I’m not sure it’s necessary to malign the company to critique the game at all. Look, I’m a professional editor and I’ve been in my critique group settings. Nothing like what appears on this forums would be allowed. I’m also older and find a lot of stuff to be disrespectful and rude.

So it’s very easy to say, I don’t feel like the expansion has enough content for what I paid. I expected more. That’s a perfectly valid criticism. It doesn’t impugn the devs. It doesn’t blame or set fault. It states it as a fact.

Saying that the devs are lazy is not constructive, it helps no one, not a single person and it’s almost definitely untrue. If Anet has an issue it’s more likely to be an organizational one than one of laziness.

But again, I don’t work there, I don’t see the devs every day and I think it’s bad to draw conclusions about them based on the game. If I want to critique something an author wrote, I focus on the work. I don’t use language to malign the author.

I could say you’re too lazy to have done the research but who does that help?

First of all, has the lazy become the new n-word?
Secondly, it was never the statement of fact. I don’t know how hard working they are and you don’t know it either. It’s an assumption based on the facts I have and I all have have is an expansion.
Does calling someone lazy help? I don’t know. It’s a feedback from a player and a negative one. It’s not about giving an advise on how to fix this or that. It’s all about saying that what you gave us at release was more than enough and what you are giving us now is not. I do not compare Anet to other authors. I am comparing the creators work now with it’s previous work. Does the “now” pale when comparing with the “past”? In my opinion, yes (and, as you said, I am entitled to that opinion). You could say that I could have draw the line here. Yes, I could have. But I am a customer. I don’t have time for this “in my opinion, developer used to give us more stuff”. I have one simple word and use it when I feel the need to. Anet is not a child. I don’t have to hold its hand and try not to make it cry. It’s a cold and unforgiving market. Deal with this.

You can be a customer and not be offensive or insulting to an entire group of people. I’ve worked in the retail sector and the customers who were most insulting were the customers I was least likely to try to mollify and the ones who often got ignored by a percentage of my staff just by human nature.

If you are the kind of person that wants to be offensive to people when you’re angry that’s your own lookout. It doesn’t really belong on the forums. Complain about the game, not the people making it. It’ll be better for you AND them.

I’m sorry you’re so bitter about the game that you feel the need to venture into something that isn’t that far off a personal attack. But I promise you it’s not helping your argument at all.

Vayne.8563:

Manthas.6234:

Vayne.8563:

Wryscher.1432:

Vayne.8563:

Manthas.6234:

Vayne.8563:

Nope you don’t have to say that. Nor do you have to trot out trite words like lazy to express your dissatisfaction which is a lazy way to complain, and an offensive one.

Anet can’t be lazy, because Anet isn’t a person. Anet is a company comprised of people. It is extremely likely that a percentage of employees of any company are in fact lazy, but the company itself can’t be lazy unless you’re personifying it. Whether you’re a developer, a customer or a norse god is not really relevant to the conversation.

You chose to use a word some would consider to be an insult and directed it at a group of 300 people. So unless every single one of those people is lazy, you’re doing a disservice to them, and you’re potentially being offensive.

If I were working really hard on something and someone called me lazy, yes, I’d take offense. Last I’ll say on the subject since to anyone reading it, this was obvious a while ago. Only someone deliberately ignoring what I’m saying would keep going and what I’m saying is factual. You can’t call a company lazy, without impugning everyone in the company.

Really? Are we really talking about how word “lazy” should be used? Ok.

First of all, be honest with yourself. I’m pretty sure you were not running around at release (when reviews were glowing) saying how we can’t praise Anet, because it’s not a person. There still could have been one slacking programmer, you know

Secondly, companies have personalities, in fact, they’re juridical persons. Companies are not the people working for them. For example, 2 of 3 Anet founders have left the company, does it meen Anet is no longer Anet? No. It’s still the same company, even though it changed over the years (people change too, right?). Companies could be good, evil, corrupt and yes, lazy. Its personality is represented by:
1) the people working there. It’s usually the senior officers, but there’re a lot of exceptions. In Anet case, that would be every red post we see on forums. Yes, there’s a living human being with the name who says something on those forums, but in the end, we remember that it was the Anet, who said that thing. Anet can’t go behind that persons back and say: “Dont look at me, it was he who said you that the fractal rewards will be fixed” (yeah, I know it’s still December).
2) its work. It this case that would be the expansion. And if someone, who had the ability and resources to produce something good, presents me a half-finished product… well, I have a pretty nice word to describe that person.

Basically, you say that I can’t call Anet lazy, because that would hurt their feelings. Well, it’s the reality talking and guys from South Park even made an episode about this. Saying anything else just gives them a wrong message that they could get away with this. No, they can’t.
Yes, you could say that my critisim is not constructive. But how can I been constructive when all I want to say is “give me more stuff for the money I paid”?

If you’re defending your use of lazy to describe a group of people, my conversation with you is pretty much over. Using a legal fiction to create some type of reality is what lawyers do. It’s offensive to call people lazy if you don’t know how hard the work and doing so only makes your argument weak. Surely you can complain without inventing stuff.

As for getting your money’s worth, you’re absolutely entitled to that opinion. I have no problem with you feeling that.

But using the word lazy? I can have no respect for that argument.

By the gods do I love you. You are so freaking good at this.

But i am curious because he actually makes a valid point. Is there a list of words that you are ok using to describe a company? Just the positive ones then?

I’m not sure it’s necessary to malign the company to critique the game at all. Look, I’m a professional editor and I’ve been in my critique group settings. Nothing like what appears on this forums would be allowed. I’m also older and find a lot of stuff to be disrespectful and rude.

So it’s very easy to say, I don’t feel like the expansion has enough content for what I paid. I expected more. That’s a perfectly valid criticism. It doesn’t impugn the devs. It doesn’t blame or set fault. It states it as a fact.

Saying that the devs are lazy is not constructive, it helps no one, not a single person and it’s almost definitely untrue. If Anet has an issue it’s more likely to be an organizational one than one of laziness.

But again, I don’t work there, I don’t see the devs every day and I think it’s bad to draw conclusions about them based on the game. If I want to critique something an author wrote, I focus on the work. I don’t use language to malign the author.

I could say you’re too lazy to have done the research but who does that help?

First of all, has the lazy become the new n-word?
Secondly, it was never the statement of fact. I don’t know how hard working they are and you don’t know it either. It’s an assumption based on the facts I have and I all have have is an expansion.
Does calling someone lazy help? I don’t know. It’s a feedback from a player and a negative one. It’s not about giving an advise on how to fix this or that. It’s all about saying that what you gave us at release was more than enough and what you are giving us now is not. I do not compare Anet to other authors. I am comparing the creators work now with it’s previous work. Does the “now” pale when comparing with the “past”? In my opinion, yes (and, as you said, I am entitled to that opinion). You could say that I could have draw the line here. Yes, I could have. But I am a customer. I don’t have time for this “in my opinion, developer used to give us more stuff”. I have one simple word and use it when I feel the need to. Anet is not a child. I don’t have to hold its hand and try not to make it cry. It’s a cold and unforgiving market. Deal with this.

You can be a customer and not be offensive or insulting to an entire group of people. I’ve worked in the retail sector and the customers who were most insulting were the customers I was least likely to try to mollify and the ones who often got ignored by a percentage of my staff just by human nature.

If you are the kind of person that wants to be offensive to people when you’re angry that’s your own lookout. It doesn’t really belong on the forums. Complain about the game, not the people making it. It’ll be better for you AND them.

I’m sorry you’re so bitter about the game that you feel the need to venture into something that isn’t that far off a personal attack. But I promise you it’s not helping your argument at all.

Saying that’s not far off a personal attack is a bit of an exaggeration don’t you think? Yes his bitterness shows through, as does mine. BUT his points are still very much valid. GW1 was a free game, with a very small element of the ‘gem store’ – in different form. This game received proper expansions, more content. HOW? Lesser budget = more content? My mind is absolutely boggled as to what has been happening in the local company of Arenanet since the very release of GW2. Seems they just want to keep experimenting to try and maximise their profits constantly – without much thought into the repercussions. I honestly think GW2 is now on a slippery slope to death. What is there for me to do in this game now? There is aetherpath – the only rewarding dungeon left, daily adventures – which I am capped by mastery points for doing dull world events, degraded fractals which are even more dull than before, and finally the infamous world events, which over half of the player base didn’t really find much interest in.

Animism.6849:

Vayne.8563:

Manthas.6234:

Vayne.8563:

Wryscher.1432:

Vayne.8563:

Manthas.6234:

Vayne.8563:

Nope you don’t have to say that. Nor do you have to trot out trite words like lazy to express your dissatisfaction which is a lazy way to complain, and an offensive one.

Anet can’t be lazy, because Anet isn’t a person. Anet is a company comprised of people. It is extremely likely that a percentage of employees of any company are in fact lazy, but the company itself can’t be lazy unless you’re personifying it. Whether you’re a developer, a customer or a norse god is not really relevant to the conversation.

You chose to use a word some would consider to be an insult and directed it at a group of 300 people. So unless every single one of those people is lazy, you’re doing a disservice to them, and you’re potentially being offensive.

If I were working really hard on something and someone called me lazy, yes, I’d take offense. Last I’ll say on the subject since to anyone reading it, this was obvious a while ago. Only someone deliberately ignoring what I’m saying would keep going and what I’m saying is factual. You can’t call a company lazy, without impugning everyone in the company.

Really? Are we really talking about how word “lazy” should be used? Ok.

First of all, be honest with yourself. I’m pretty sure you were not running around at release (when reviews were glowing) saying how we can’t praise Anet, because it’s not a person. There still could have been one slacking programmer, you know

Secondly, companies have personalities, in fact, they’re juridical persons. Companies are not the people working for them. For example, 2 of 3 Anet founders have left the company, does it meen Anet is no longer Anet? No. It’s still the same company, even though it changed over the years (people change too, right?). Companies could be good, evil, corrupt and yes, lazy. Its personality is represented by:
1) the people working there. It’s usually the senior officers, but there’re a lot of exceptions. In Anet case, that would be every red post we see on forums. Yes, there’s a living human being with the name who says something on those forums, but in the end, we remember that it was the Anet, who said that thing. Anet can’t go behind that persons back and say: “Dont look at me, it was he who said you that the fractal rewards will be fixed” (yeah, I know it’s still December).
2) its work. It this case that would be the expansion. And if someone, who had the ability and resources to produce something good, presents me a half-finished product… well, I have a pretty nice word to describe that person.

Basically, you say that I can’t call Anet lazy, because that would hurt their feelings. Well, it’s the reality talking and guys from South Park even made an episode about this. Saying anything else just gives them a wrong message that they could get away with this. No, they can’t.
Yes, you could say that my critisim is not constructive. But how can I been constructive when all I want to say is “give me more stuff for the money I paid”?

If you’re defending your use of lazy to describe a group of people, my conversation with you is pretty much over. Using a legal fiction to create some type of reality is what lawyers do. It’s offensive to call people lazy if you don’t know how hard the work and doing so only makes your argument weak. Surely you can complain without inventing stuff.

As for getting your money’s worth, you’re absolutely entitled to that opinion. I have no problem with you feeling that.

But using the word lazy? I can have no respect for that argument.

By the gods do I love you. You are so freaking good at this.

But i am curious because he actually makes a valid point. Is there a list of words that you are ok using to describe a company? Just the positive ones then?

I’m not sure it’s necessary to malign the company to critique the game at all. Look, I’m a professional editor and I’ve been in my critique group settings. Nothing like what appears on this forums would be allowed. I’m also older and find a lot of stuff to be disrespectful and rude.

So it’s very easy to say, I don’t feel like the expansion has enough content for what I paid. I expected more. That’s a perfectly valid criticism. It doesn’t impugn the devs. It doesn’t blame or set fault. It states it as a fact.

Saying that the devs are lazy is not constructive, it helps no one, not a single person and it’s almost definitely untrue. If Anet has an issue it’s more likely to be an organizational one than one of laziness.

But again, I don’t work there, I don’t see the devs every day and I think it’s bad to draw conclusions about them based on the game. If I want to critique something an author wrote, I focus on the work. I don’t use language to malign the author.

I could say you’re too lazy to have done the research but who does that help?

First of all, has the lazy become the new n-word?
Secondly, it was never the statement of fact. I don’t know how hard working they are and you don’t know it either. It’s an assumption based on the facts I have and I all have have is an expansion.
Does calling someone lazy help? I don’t know. It’s a feedback from a player and a negative one. It’s not about giving an advise on how to fix this or that. It’s all about saying that what you gave us at release was more than enough and what you are giving us now is not. I do not compare Anet to other authors. I am comparing the creators work now with it’s previous work. Does the “now” pale when comparing with the “past”? In my opinion, yes (and, as you said, I am entitled to that opinion). You could say that I could have draw the line here. Yes, I could have. But I am a customer. I don’t have time for this “in my opinion, developer used to give us more stuff”. I have one simple word and use it when I feel the need to. Anet is not a child. I don’t have to hold its hand and try not to make it cry. It’s a cold and unforgiving market. Deal with this.

You can be a customer and not be offensive or insulting to an entire group of people. I’ve worked in the retail sector and the customers who were most insulting were the customers I was least likely to try to mollify and the ones who often got ignored by a percentage of my staff just by human nature.

If you are the kind of person that wants to be offensive to people when you’re angry that’s your own lookout. It doesn’t really belong on the forums. Complain about the game, not the people making it. It’ll be better for you AND them.

I’m sorry you’re so bitter about the game that you feel the need to venture into something that isn’t that far off a personal attack. But I promise you it’s not helping your argument at all.

Saying that’s not far off a personal attack is a bit of an exaggeration don’t you think? Yes his bitterness shows through, as does mine. BUT his points are still very much valid. GW1 was a free game, with a very small element of the ‘gem store’ – in different form. This game received proper expansions, more content. HOW? Lesser budget = more content? My mind is absolutely boggled as to what has been happening in the local company of Arenanet since the very release of GW2. Seems they just want to keep experimenting to try and maximise their profits constantly – without much thought into the repercussions. I honestly think GW2 is now on a slippery slope to death. What is there for me to do in this game now? There is aetherpath – the only rewarding dungeon left, daily adventures – which I am capped by mastery points for doing dull world events, degraded fractals which are even more dull than before, and finally the infamous world events, which over half of the player base didn’t really find much interest in.

Nope. It’s not an exaggeration, I think it’s hurtful and if enough people say it, it’s potentially damaging to people. There is zero reason to get personal and judge people.

If I were working my kitten off at Anet, as no doubt many people are, and I saw me being called lazy it would hurt. Developers are human beings with feelings. By implying they’re simply not trying, you are in fact maligning them, particularly if you don’t know them. It’s a judgement that doesn’t need to be made. It’s the type of language that sullies any argument because it’s unprovable and off topic.

Complain about the game, don’t point fingers at people you don’t know. There’s no reason to do it. It doesn’t strengthen your argument.

You can complain about not getting enough updates without being personal.

Perhaps lazy was the wrong word to use – but in essence the message still comes through.
If people don’t vent their frustrations to the right place, how is this game ever going to succeed? Arenanet are obviously trying – however what he is saying, is whatever management they have for developing and designing this game is obviously falling short.

For three years, many of us have been wondering what Arenanet are going to do next for this game, many were not happy about the time and developmental resources the Living Story took up. So, don’t tell me there isn’t a basis for the customers to be actively concerned about where the game is headed or how it’s being developed. These are all concerns which can be readily received and worked on by Arenanet. I don’t mean to say it to be damaging, and if Arenanet think they have made the perfect game (which I’m sure they don’t), that would just be silly. Of course the game has to improve, but perhaps they have got the wrong end of the stick and their ‘adventurous’ methods are really backfiring – which in my opinion, they are without doubt. I never even played WoW, yet I know the developmental value was unrivalled here. GW2 presents that value in a different way, unpolished in its pathway.

Look there are major problems in WvW and they’re systematic base problems. They’ve existed since launch. Presumably a lot of resources are there right now. Other resources are fixing bugs, working on getting Wintersday out, there’s a lot of stuff going on.

This entire thread is about adding outfits, which are essentially skins to the cash shop but not putting more stuff in game. That’s the purpose of the thread. But the game has undergone quite an overhaul. It takes a lot of work and manpower to do what has been done with this game.

I believe people are underselling the amount of work it takes.

Cyrotek.7019:

Ayrilana.1396:

The people who design those items are not the ones working on the other areas in the game fixing bugs or improving gameplay.

They could fire the item designers and hire people to fix their game.

lol could they now, and what do you think pays for the game? How often do you run against bugs that ruin your gameplay?

Vayne.8563:

You can be a customer and not be offensive or insulting to an entire group of people. I’ve worked in the retail sector and the customers who were most insulting were the customers I was least likely to try to mollify and the ones who often got ignored by a percentage of my staff just by human nature.

If you are the kind of person that wants to be offensive to people when you’re angry that’s your own lookout. It doesn’t really belong on the forums. Complain about the game, not the people making it. It’ll be better for you AND them.

I’m sorry you’re so bitter about the game that you feel the need to venture into something that isn’t that far off a personal attack. But I promise you it’s not helping your argument at all.

Woah woah woah! Did u just called me bitter? You used a negative adjective towards me based on my previous actions? I am offended! It’s a personal attack towards me! You don’t know me!

See where this gets us? You can’t make every negative comment into a hate crime. I understand that being offended is the new cool, but even this is way too far. An offence is like a salt. Put a little of it and food tastes better, put too much and food is ruined. It’s all about personal taste, but take the salt away and your food is tasteless. Maybe you like tasteless, I don’t. Trust me, I’m good at offending and I haven’t even started yet.

Please, keep on dragging this thread off topic, you are really good at this.

Manthas.6234:

Vayne.8563:

You can be a customer and not be offensive or insulting to an entire group of people. I’ve worked in the retail sector and the customers who were most insulting were the customers I was least likely to try to mollify and the ones who often got ignored by a percentage of my staff just by human nature.

If you are the kind of person that wants to be offensive to people when you’re angry that’s your own lookout. It doesn’t really belong on the forums. Complain about the game, not the people making it. It’ll be better for you AND them.

I’m sorry you’re so bitter about the game that you feel the need to venture into something that isn’t that far off a personal attack. But I promise you it’s not helping your argument at all.

Woah woah woah! Did u just called me bitter? You used a negative adjective towards me based on my previous actions? I am offended! It’s a personal attack towards me! You don’t know me!

See where this gets us? You can’t make every negative comment into a hate crime. I understand that being offended is the new cool, but even this is way too far. An offence is like a salt. Put a little of it and food tastes better, put too much and food is ruined. It’s all about personal taste, but take the salt away and your food is tasteless. Maybe you like tasteless, I don’t. Trust me, I’m good at offending and I haven’t even started yet.

Please, keep on dragging this thread off topic, you are really good at this.

Actually there’s a huge difference between judging a person based on what they say, and maligning an entire group of people you’re not interacting with.

This is the dictionary definition of bitter:

feeling or showing anger, hurt, or resentment because of bad experiences or a sense of unjust treatment.

This is actually something you’ve acknowledged in your own posts, so I felt no issue in assigning the label to you.

Dashingsteel.3410:

There should be a balance between skins you can earn in the game and skins you buy in the gemstore. Right now it seems to be tilted in favor of the gemstore.

^ Well put. Succinct and hits the nail on the head. The above point also eludes to the other point which is communication. ArenaNet hears us and continues to ignore and leave it unaddressed. They charged 50 to 100 dollars. That’s a premium price point for an expansion. There is a distinct lack of earnable items for that price point. That issue should be addressed.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

I’m not sure it’s necessary to malign the company to critique the game at all.

It’s absolutely unnecessary. It’s either people acting out because it’s the internet and the consequences are trivial, or it’s a bald-faced (and ill-advised) attempt to shame the developer into acting. Either way, it’s rude and uncalled for.

First of all, it’s not really maligning if the person is saying stuff about the company’s practices that they believe to be true.

Second, you pretty much have to criticize the company if you’re going to criticize the game. The company as a whole is what made the game and made the decisions that turned the game into what it is (this is more so relevant for AAA games, with hundreds of employees, less so for 5 person indie teams).

Third, there is a bit of a distinction between developers and company because most devs have very little say in what goes on (which is why I, personally, tend to avoid criticizing developers themselves). But either way, hemming and hawing over the use of the word lazy is extremely idiotic. So what if it’s not entirely respectful? There are more important things in this world to get offended over. Unless you work for Anet, chances are, the developers are not your friends and you know nothing about them. Why defend them over one word in the first place? Just because you like parts of their game?

Just stop and think for a moment how absurd that is. They are adults who are getting paid to do a job. If they were getting harassed and stalked, I would be right there with you defending them. Them getting called lazy as a whole, in a generalized sense, is not worth the blink of an eye in defense, much less an ongoing argument.

Labjax.2465:

First of all, it’s not really maligning if the person is saying stuff about the company’s practices that they believe to be true.

I couldn’t disagree more. Baseless belief is not a free pass to say whatever one wants in a private setting.

Second, you pretty much have to criticize the company if you’re going to criticize the game. The company as a whole is what made the game and made the decisions that turned the game into what it is (this is more so relevant for AAA games, with hundreds of employees, less so for 5 person indie teams).

It is completely possible to criticize both the game and the company without resorting to pejoratives. I do it all the time. You do, too. Use of such terms is in itself the mark of a weak argument.

Third, there is a bit of a distinction between developers and company because most devs have very little say in what goes on (which is why I, personally, tend to avoid criticizing developers themselves). But either way, hemming and hawing over the use of the word lazy is extremely idiotic.

If it’s idiotic to comment about the use of a word, ANet might as well delete 80% of the posts on these boards, including some of yours.

So what if it’s not entirely respectful? There are more important things in this world to get offended over.

Are there more important things to care about? Absolutely. None of us are posting on a game forum to change the world.

Unless you work for Anet, chances are, the developers are not your friends and you know nothing about them. Why defend them over one word in the first place? Just because you like parts of their game?

I’m not posting my opinion of cynical forum tactics to defend ANet. I’m not pleased with the way ANet management has moved the game, either. I just don’t like cynical forum tactics.

Just stop and think for a moment how absurd that is. They are adults who are getting paid to do a job. If they were getting harassed and stalked, I would be right there with you defending them. Them getting called lazy as a whole, in a generalized sense, is not worth the blink of an eye in defense, much less an ongoing argument.

I made one short comment. You made a longer response. If it wasn’t worth commenting on, why was the comment worth commenting on?

IndigoSundown.5419:

Labjax.2465:

First of all, it’s not really maligning if the person is saying stuff about the company’s practices that they believe to be true.

I couldn’t disagree more. Baseless belief is not a free pass to say whatever one wants in a private setting.

Second, you pretty much have to criticize the company if you’re going to criticize the game. The company as a whole is what made the game and made the decisions that turned the game into what it is (this is more so relevant for AAA games, with hundreds of employees, less so for 5 person indie teams).

It is completely possible to criticize both the game and the company without resorting to pejoratives. I do it all the time. You do, too. Use of such terms is in itself the mark of a weak argument.

Third, there is a bit of a distinction between developers and company because most devs have very little say in what goes on (which is why I, personally, tend to avoid criticizing developers themselves). But either way, hemming and hawing over the use of the word lazy is extremely idiotic.

If it’s idiotic to comment about the use of a word, ANet might as well delete 80% of the posts on these boards, including some of yours.

So what if it’s not entirely respectful? There are more important things in this world to get offended over.

Are there more important things to care about? Absolutely. None of us are posting on a game forum to change the world.

Unless you work for Anet, chances are, the developers are not your friends and you know nothing about them. Why defend them over one word in the first place? Just because you like parts of their game?

I’m not posting my opinion of cynical forum tactics to defend ANet. I’m not pleased with the way ANet management has moved the game, either. I just don’t like cynical forum tactics.

Just stop and think for a moment how absurd that is. They are adults who are getting paid to do a job. If they were getting harassed and stalked, I would be right there with you defending them. Them getting called lazy as a whole, in a generalized sense, is not worth the blink of an eye in defense, much less an ongoing argument.

I made one short comment. You made a longer response. If it wasn’t worth commenting on, why was the comment worth commenting on?

FWIW, my post was more directed toward Vayne than yourself. He has been going on about the use of the word lazy for a good page or so.

That said, Anet can delete whatever they want, including my own stuff. I commented on it mainly because of Vayne going on and on about it at the guy. It’s borderline obsessive the way he is/was defending the developers against one word. It’s almost as if he considers himself one of them.

No one gets a free pass, sure, I was just pointing out that there’s a difference between saying what you think about the content produced by the developers and creating elaborate lies to make them look bad. Pejoratives are a weak way to criticize, sure, but if they’re weak, why is anyone giving it the time of day?

And I’d hardly call the use of the word lazy “tactics.” It is an opinion, and arguably a rude one, but it’s hardly tactics to describe a group’s work as lazy. I’ve seen “tactics” all the time on internet forums and this is nothing like that. Tactics is, incidentally, what Vayne’s crusade against the word lazy looks like to me… painting it as rude, using it as a platform to discourage criticism of the company. Looks like tactics to shut out criticism to me. I’m not saying he has any ulterior motive other than being a fan, mind you.

sirsquishy.8531:

I equate HoT to D3:reaper of souls.
And who still plays D3? I sure as hell dont…..

I do, 3k hours and more to come next season; at least that game has content updates…content that is FREE unlike here where all HoT content gets put in a cash shop. Do not even dare compare a great b2p play game that is truly BUY TO PLAY to one that is clearly now f2p in business model and design. GW2 used to be my pick for the best MMO in last three years but NCsoft has ruined that. You can see the signs really, they are clearly going after the people who get addicted to gambling with all the BL skins they release. Must be working, more cash shop crap every week or two. Wonder when the prem service feature will show up? Soon I bet.

/quote /
Tactics is, incidentally, what Vayne’s crusade against the word lazy looks like to me… painting it as rude, using it as a platform to discourage criticism of the company. Looks like tactics to shut out criticism to me. I’m not saying he has any ulterior motive other than being a fan, mind you
/quote /

Excuse me , so if a person is hiding behind his PC with his anonymousity , like a little kid , spouting his nonsense, he should be left untouched ?
Will he magically ‘’grow up ’’ some day ?

If they remove his post or ban him , then the company is bad , and he will start spouting silly things on the fan-forums , otherwise they must cherish him like their filled teenager hormones child ?
And permit them to be called lazy , or their products is the worst in the history of MMOs , because only the Modarators are reading those or getting paid ,
or ‘’because they are proffessional and they they know that the forums are filled with passionate ppl that use those words , because they love the game’’ ?

I have a theory :
1) If you want something …. say , like a mature guy
…or You Know … Just Dont (Sky Williams 2015)

2) Whatever you say it will effect the game …even after you leave for other games …
PvP: As long as there athelete ppl will flock = we dont need Balance for the cauals 2013
WvWvW : We want less PvD and bigger maps to split the zergs = less fights atm
PvE : we must create hardcore Rids that offers the best Rewards + Money = ops theres some pricks on the LFG that wants ppl with full Achentand + 16.000 Achiv ….ops its the comnpany fault ..
Conculution : ……dont kittening insist and later on do a 180 flip flop and say it you didnt say it…and they should watch the ‘’pros opinion"’

3) If you are Test, Iason, vesper,fixit, NecroN, , you should w8 till the price of the x-drops …. or move as you intent to , in other games

4) If you want to be a prick because you think there will no backfires , then a bigger prick you will poke you with a watered-wood-plank on your skinny kitten .

Because its the inernet i can do whatever i want too :P
Dont you like how this work too ? :P

Labjax.2465:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Labjax.2465:

First of all, it’s not really maligning if the person is saying stuff about the company’s practices that they believe to be true.

I couldn’t disagree more. Baseless belief is not a free pass to say whatever one wants in a private setting.

Second, you pretty much have to criticize the company if you’re going to criticize the game. The company as a whole is what made the game and made the decisions that turned the game into what it is (this is more so relevant for AAA games, with hundreds of employees, less so for 5 person indie teams).

It is completely possible to criticize both the game and the company without resorting to pejoratives. I do it all the time. You do, too. Use of such terms is in itself the mark of a weak argument.

Third, there is a bit of a distinction between developers and company because most devs have very little say in what goes on (which is why I, personally, tend to avoid criticizing developers themselves). But either way, hemming and hawing over the use of the word lazy is extremely idiotic.

If it’s idiotic to comment about the use of a word, ANet might as well delete 80% of the posts on these boards, including some of yours.

So what if it’s not entirely respectful? There are more important things in this world to get offended over.

Are there more important things to care about? Absolutely. None of us are posting on a game forum to change the world.

Unless you work for Anet, chances are, the developers are not your friends and you know nothing about them. Why defend them over one word in the first place? Just because you like parts of their game?

I’m not posting my opinion of cynical forum tactics to defend ANet. I’m not pleased with the way ANet management has moved the game, either. I just don’t like cynical forum tactics.

Just stop and think for a moment how absurd that is. They are adults who are getting paid to do a job. If they were getting harassed and stalked, I would be right there with you defending them. Them getting called lazy as a whole, in a generalized sense, is not worth the blink of an eye in defense, much less an ongoing argument.

I made one short comment. You made a longer response. If it wasn’t worth commenting on, why was the comment worth commenting on?

FWIW, my post was more directed toward Vayne than yourself. He has been going on about the use of the word lazy for a good page or so.

That said, Anet can delete whatever they want, including my own stuff. I commented on it mainly because of Vayne going on and on about it at the guy. It’s borderline obsessive the way he is/was defending the developers against one word. It’s almost as if he considers himself one of them.

No one gets a free pass, sure, I was just pointing out that there’s a difference between saying what you think about the content produced by the developers and creating elaborate lies to make them look bad. Pejoratives are a weak way to criticize, sure, but if they’re weak, why is anyone giving it the time of day?

And I’d hardly call the use of the word lazy “tactics.” It is an opinion, and arguably a rude one, but it’s hardly tactics to describe a group’s work as lazy. I’ve seen “tactics” all the time on internet forums and this is nothing like that. Tactics is, incidentally, what Vayne’s crusade against the word lazy looks like to me… painting it as rude, using it as a platform to discourage criticism of the company. Looks like tactics to shut out criticism to me. I’m not saying he has any ulterior motive other than being a fan, mind you.

Ah, I responded because you quoted me, Lab. I have to admit I wondered why you singled me out. Maybe because my post was short?

Vayne has certain things that get under his skin. When he’s on about one of those, he won’t let go. I’ve kind of given up commenting on it. I find that Vayne has very few issues with my criticisms of ANet, but then I avoid pejoratives and speak only for myself. If I comment on trends I use terms like “some people” rather than the sure-to-provoke “majority.”

Whether accusations are a tactic or not probably depends on the poster. A great many aren’t. I call it that whether the poster is doing it consciously, or not. Humans tend to build support for their ideas by using words they think will resonate with a portion of their audience. I believe that calling attention to that can have the effect of waking the occasional person up. I believe the great majority of readers shine it on, but if I make one reader think, then I think my post was worthwhile.

Killthehealersffs.8940:

/quote /
Tactics is, incidentally, what Vayne’s crusade against the word lazy looks like to me… painting it as rude, using it as a platform to discourage criticism of the company. Looks like tactics to shut out criticism to me. I’m not saying he has any ulterior motive other than being a fan, mind you
/quote /

Excuse me , so if a person is hiding behind his PC with his anonymousity , like a little kid , spouting his nonsense, he should be left untouched ?
Will he magically ‘’grow up ’’ some day ?

If they remove his post or ban him , then the company is bad , and he will start spouting silly things on the fan-forums , otherwise they must cherish him like their filled teenager hormones child ?
And permit them to be called lazy , or their products is the worst in the history of MMOs , because only the Modarators are reading those or getting paid ,
or ‘’because they are proffessional and they they know that the forums are filled with passionate ppl that use those words , because they love the game’’ ?

I have a theory :
1) If you want something …. say , like a mature guy
…or You Know … Just Dont (Sky Williams 2015)

2) Whatever you say it will effect the game …even after you leave for other games …
PvP: As long as there athelete ppl will flock = we dont need Balance for the cauals 2013
WvWvW : We want less PvD and bigger maps to split the zergs = less fights atm
PvE : we must create hardcore Rids that offers the best Rewards + Money = ops theres some pricks on the LFG that wants ppl with full Achentand + 16.000 Achiv ….ops its the comnpany fault ..
Conculution : ……dont kittening insist and later on do a 180 flip flop and say it you didnt say it…and they should watch the ‘’pros opinion"’

3) If you are Test, Iason, vesper,fixit, NecroN, , you should w8 till the price of the x-drops …. or move as you intent to , in other games

4) If you want to be a prick because you think there will no backfires , then a bigger prick you will poke you with a watered-wood-plank on your skinny kitten .

Because its the inernet i can do whatever i want too :P
Dont you like how this work too ? :P

I have a pretty clear understanding of how this works. I stated how Vayne’s persistence about the use of the word lazy came across to me. You are, of course, welcome to disagree.

I don’t know where you get words like “should be left untouched.” I am questioning the act of making a big deal out of one allegedly disrespectful word directed toward the developers, especially considering that much worse is said on these forums near non-stop. You can “touch” what you see as disrespectful all you want, but if you see people who say such stuff as equivalent to a little kid who needs to grow up, then it’s obvious you don’t have the presence of mind to help him grow up in the first place, even if he truly needed to, which is a hypocritically insulting presumption.

It’s also a vast oversimplification to act as if the only thing the guy said was that the developers are lazy, with nothing added to it, and reeks of tactics itself. You are painting him like a petulant child who knows only swear words.

But sure, be mature whenever possible if you are going to say something. I can agree with that. The funny thing about it though… it’s very easy to sound mature and clamber up onto a pedestal. Much harder to embody maturity.