Guild Wars 2

Im also really disappointed i mean the pricing doesnt equal with enough gameplay
^^ . I thought its going to be cheaper or atleast have more things if its 50 dollars

Recently i read a story of polish elecronics inventor who in 70’s invented computer 10 times faster then 80’s american models. Why no one heard of it? Cause “If you did it americans prolly already did it 10 years ago already!” is what he heard and got shoved outside the door.

But hey, many top mmorpgs have great business model and marketing teams telling devs exactly what to do to make it a success and raking in huge profits…right after they go F2P after a disastrous crash, from which the ignorant and dark-age minded players warned them on forums for ages….but hey i’m just one guy and americans know better;)

Bubi.7942:

So.

This is a supposed picture of the back cover of the HoT box (it is from a well trusted if not the most trusted online retailer in my country).

https://cdgalaxis.hu/termekkepek/hatlap/pcg/pcg_guild_wars_2_heart_of_thorns_standard_edition_pre_purchase_v1506.jpg

No mention on it of new PvE maps, “challenging group content”, PvP or WvW. If this cover is real then… this won’t end well.

I suppose this online retailer is more of a reliable source than the actual website managed by the company developing the expansion.

1. We currently know of one map -Verdant Brink – in the area.

2. We can reasonably assume that the ‘challenging group content’ is instanced content from Colin’s remark on the open world content not being what they meant by ‘challenging group content’.

ToT.7018:

Hi Lanfear,
many thanks for replying back to me.

no prob

Wouldn’t it be nice to have a couple of beers with Gaile Gray and just talk about things like the difference in Business Models between GW1 and GW2 and how they effected the people who bought and played the games.

My guess is that GW2 is significantly more profitable. One cost, however, seems to be a dramatic drop in customer satisfaction. The degree to which that was caused by a shift from an emphasis on CONTENT to an emphasis on BRANDING I can only guess at. That strategy can work (e.g. APPLE Corp.). The trade-off is short term verses long term profit. Another way to put it: Should the goose be cut open now to get the golden eggs?.

The signposts suggest to me that Guild Wars will be a distant memory to most within 5 years or so. By then it will have been a financially successful endeavor having earned the evaluation “It wasn’t a bad game for awhile”. It won’t be dead, having a fairly large population. But, that population will be made up significantly of people who have yet to buy the game. Check the statistics. The “I came, I saw, I left” rate for GW2 should be analyzed by inquiring minds. Doing so should remove some of the fog.

In summary, be prepared for periodic, perhaps frequent, disappointments. The “game development” focus has shifted between GW1 and GW2 away from “market driven” towards “bells and whistles for profit.” Whether or not that was a good move depends on perspective (i.e. who is doing the evaluation). Is it someone who is cashing the checks or someone spending the money?

A final comment. I respect anyone who posts their discontent regardless of how well they communicate their point. For those who condemn them or their arguments, think about it. What you do is no different then what they do. Look inward.

Irrelevant post script: I have played GW2 since and including initial BETA, eight years playing GW1. But, for now, I will take a break, check out some alternatives and re-evaluate in three to six months, after the dust has settled. Hope springs eternal but I am not optimistic. My best to all Guild Wars junkies like me.

Namaste.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Recently i read a story of polish elecronics inventor who in 70’s invented computer 10 times faster then 80’s american models. Why no one heard of it? Cause “If you did it americans prolly already did it 10 years ago already!” is what he heard and got shoved outside the door.

But hey, many top mmorpgs have great business model and marketing teams telling devs exactly what to do to make it a success and raking in huge profits…right after they go F2P after a disastrous crash, from which the ignorant and dark-age minded players warned them on forums for ages….but hey i’m just one guy and americans know better;)

Instead of appealing to emotion and turning this into an “Americans vs Others” issue, try constructively responding to the rebuttals posted. Explain how your position differs from the current market and/or offers something that business professionals specializing in software, gaming, and MMORPG markets do not.

If you look closely at ZeftheWickeds’ post you can find a true gem. Here is a hint: Investigate software companies over the past 25 years. Compare the ones that survived to those that failed using one variable. Ask this, “Was the company driven by R&D or executives graduated from R&D, or was product development a function of the Marketing Department?” An alternative to the effort to do the research, consider why the creators of GOOGLE (the tech geniuses) almost immediately hired “suits” to run the company rather then leave it in the hands of R&D?

Namaste

The people who allow the purchase of legendaries (basically this game’s end-game) put a ridiculously high price tag for a non standalone expansion. And Veterans can’t just purchase it for a lower price.

Gee, I never expected something like that. “SHOCKED”

ZeftheWicked.3076:

… You see running a successful mmorpg is like picking up a woman. …

That is an offensively sleazy way to make a point.

You can’t possibly still be on about vets getting “shafted”. The core game on sale = $10, character slot = $10, Hot for vets costs $40 + mandatory character slot = $50. HoT for new players costs $40 + mandatory core game =$50.

Whether you think that the price is WORTH it or not is a different matter, but your posts have little substance. They fixed the issue of fairness, so this is not a valid complaint.

Kumion.7580:

ZeftheWicked.3076:

… You see running a successful mmorpg is like picking up a woman. …

That is an offensively sleazy way to make a point.

And bloody this ^

Galen Grey.4709:

DarkSyze.8627:

Obtena.7952:

It’s interesting people question if it’s worth $50 … considering the hundreds or even thousands of hours they get from playing the game. The price per hour of this kind of entertainment is actually ridiculously cheap compared to lots of other entertaining hobbies you could be doing.

No, $50 is not much to pay, even if it’s just ‘one map, one new profession’, like someone people are proclaiming.

$50 is not much to pay?

A player posted this:

“Thats pointless you’re comparing missing information (we dont know all HoT has) with full information”

Pointless? Arena net Intionally hiding information/ Intentionally with-holding information from their customers…

See what the definition of Unfair and Deceptive Business Practices.

(we know all Heavenward has) "

Because Square Enix is honest to their customers by using fair business practices.

“(Arenanet did hire a raid specialist after all)”

“and that isnt even complete HoT also came with a trait / skill system redesign. redesigned guilds (guild teams, guild unlocks etc..), and there is a new gameplay elements adventures and outposts”.

“ohh and a minor correction, there are actually 9 specializations not 8, revenant gets one too.

Do you call empty words Honest without actions?

So paying a company who violate the law by intentionally hiding/witholding and misleeding information from their customers to make profit of their customers without them fully knowing is ok?

So paying a company who use emtpy words to make profit of their customers without them fully knowing is ok?

I do not know how long you are a player in Guild Wars 2 because i did not investigate: if you were a player in Guild Wars 2 beta or before release of the game: did you learn anything from what they did to you as a customer?

Yes. I am talking about The Manifesto.

“ The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody has decided not to see ”
Ayn Rand

" Action Proves Who Someone Is, Words Just Prove Who They Want To Be "

Here’s something for you then, you’re welcome to get really offended now:> (from 3:20)

That aside:
Character slot being part of basic package for all (vet and newbie alike) and not “buy cat in the bag” pre-purchase deal.

Unique skin sets for long time players, for example something like a scar, special eyepatch, emote, additions to home instance and unique glider skins for veterans who buy HoT. Newbies would get them after some time in the game.

Cool visual stuff that lets vets claim their bragging right of “i’ve been here for a long time” and can’t be obtained otherwise then by sticking with the game for longer time.

These are but basic incentives i would use to make vets feel more welcomed and give them the feeling gw2 is their mmorpg home and they should feel most comfy here.

Once upon a time expansions used to cost 40 dollars (Eye Of the North) and came with 2 character slots.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Bubi.7942:

So.

This is a supposed picture of the back cover of the HoT box (it is from a well trusted if not the most trusted online retailer in my country).

https://cdgalaxis.hu/termekkepek/hatlap/pcg/pcg_guild_wars_2_heart_of_thorns_standard_edition_pre_purchase_v1506.jpg

No mention on it of new PvE maps, “challenging group content”, PvP or WvW. If this cover is real then… this won’t end well.

I suppose this online retailer is more of a reliable source than the actual website managed by the company developing the expansion.

Well, I can’t think of a good reason to go and make a fake back cover.

You don’t have to buy it OP.

People are free to choose how they spend their money, it doesn’t make them less intelligent than you.

Don’t worry about how people spend their money, worry about how you spend YOUR money. How do you know most of the people buying it are not doing it out because they are a fan of the game? Or to some people $50 dollar is chump change?

The point being, if you think Arena net hasn’t proven the value of the expansion, that is great and you are free to believe that if you so choose. But try not to be a condenscending kitten because you disagree with their assessment of the value.

personally, $50 is a the amount of money will probably blow on a kittenty friday night, so why not just give it to a company that has given me over 3000 hours of gameplay for only 60 bucks?

Macs.6814:

Once upon a time expansions used to cost 40 dollars (Eye Of the North) and came with 2 character slots.

People complained about the price of that just like they do for every expansion that is ever released.

And it still gets more expensive…

Inflation is what drives up costs usually. But my concern here is their mention of the expansion+base game rollup with every expansion release into a baseline cost. I can easily see the base game jumping to 79.99 for the latest expansion after 1 or 2 more expansions are released. As it is, the average WoW gamer pays 168/year to play the game with out including the expansion costs. If GW2 is going to roll with an Expansion yearly release, they are slowly entering that territory.

Vayne.8563:

1. None of the developers out there know the stuff you put in this post.
2. It isn’t as easy as you make it sound.

Yes, because it’s completelly unheard off that ArenaNet would have a bad idea and people would then have to speak very loudly so ArenaNet sees reason and changes their course of action. No sir, that has never happened in the story of GW2. Ever.

By the way, Vayne, have you decided how you are going to name the character in the slot you got thanks to us? “Test Was Right”? “Test Is Always Right”?

Vayne.8563:

Leon Heart XIII.4609:

Even after that blog post I still don’t feel too hot(pun intended) about the expansion pack. Form what we’ve seen and hear so far from anet it doesn’t seem like much content yet it has a 50.00 base price, unless this expansion is up to caliber with expansions like WoW and FF14 then it’s not even worth it tbh. We need Anet to reveal more about the content coming to HoT so I can finally set my mind at ease(or disappointment).

I disagree with this. I think that it doesn’t have to be as much content as a WoW expansion because for the last content free year in WoW, people are paying $15 a month for nothing, and then paying $50 for an expansion that people were done with in a couple of months anyway. This to me is not really a good value.

By contrast, people bought Guild Wars 2 for $60 and got hundreds and hundreds (if not thousands) of hours out of it without paying more.

HoT is the entry gate to the new area. You can wait until more content comes out that feeds off HoT if you like until it becomes worth it, but I’ll be there from the beginning, gaining the new currencies, working on the new legendaries, unlocking my guild hall, leveling my masteries, so when stuff is added, I’m not hopelessly backlogged.

The WoW analogy doesn’t work.

People assume that players are constantly paying $15 a month for a year straight, or longer. Some people only pay for a month or two, then take a break until the next major update or expansion comes out. Is that extra $15 worth it? That’s up to each individual to decide. Do i question people’s judgement when they spend $15+ a month on gems in GW2? No, it’s their money, and if they see value on spending money on gems, it’s their prerogative.

Ayrilana.1396:

Macs.6814:

Once upon a time expansions used to cost 40 dollars (Eye Of the North) and came with 2 character slots.

People complained about the price of that just like they do for every expansion that is ever released.

“…..Eye of the North does not feature new professions, but has 18 new “multilevel” dungeons, 150 new skills (50 of them restricted to PvE), 40 new armor sets, and 10 new heroes, in addition to the new items, weapons, and titles….."
Im still not buying HoT until i know exactly what im paying for and/or if it’s worth it but i bet you it doesn’t come close to what Eye of the north had.

I pre-purchased the standard version. Then I heard that one can upgrade to deluxe in-game through the Gems store. I went to look out of curiosity. It says I already have deluxe? Is this normal? If not and I have deluxe, can I keep it? :P

To be more on topic, I find it interesting the address. It demonstrates that you are listening. It is not always easy to know ’’how’’ to respond to commentary and discontent. You don’t know if it will fix everything, help a bit or get people even more infuriated. All in all, giving more depth to the world and giving it your 110% is how I’d respond. Giving a character slot seems like the easy way out. I’ve seen Nexon and Square-Enix give freebies to their players. It will certainly please a few, but showing your dedication full on is what would make me smile ever more

One thing I’d like is an official RP server. The next time you make a big mistake, offer us that and I’m certain quite a few will be pleased :P

I bought ultimate today but has so far only received gems and the title.
Will the mini, skins and character slots not be delivered until HoT?

Chris McSwag.4683:

I bought ultimate today but has so far only received gems and the title.
Will the mini, skins and character slots not be delivered until HoT?

Did you check your mail? The rest, excluding the extra slot, should be there.

They were for me at least.

Fundoshi.3092:

Random.4691:

You purchase HoT, it has a core copy that comes with your purchase. If you have previously purchased the GW2 core game (not HoT) within the time frame given and you would like a refund you can contact support to get a refund.

Because HoT comes with the core game they are compensating all those who bought the Core game under the impression that you needed it to get the expansion, before Pre-purchase was announced.

Yeah but that makes no sense, why would they go through all that trouble just to give you the effin HoT expansion? Why not just give the new players a 10$ discount and remove the pre-purchase bonuses? (since the core game was 40$ and the expansion is 50$)…

Who knows… I accept their offer and am contacting their support now.

When you bought GW2, did you know you would get SAB, LS S1 and S2.? and other update?

The game did changed a lot from the Version 1.0 and even ANet didn’t know what GW2 is now 3 years ago.

Telling you what exactly you will get is kind of meaningless and you will get much more than that . What we may sure is ANet will atleast updating this game next 3 years. So the decision is depends on do you trust ANet will give you a good game experience in the next 3 years or not.

Macs.6814:

Once upon a time expansions used to cost 40 dollars (Eye Of the North) and came with 2 character slots.

Eye of the North came with 0 additional character slots. Maybe you are thinking about the campaigns?

Ok.. so ppl who got the game now and will have some benefits… but how about the old players? I still say that 50$ for an expansion is pricy, especialy since they are including the base game whit all the expansions and they say that every expansion will have all the previous content. So i should just w8 for the next one and buy them both at once?
I still feel we old players have less advantages than the new ones.

DarkSyze.8627:

Obtena.7952:

It’s interesting people question if it’s worth $50 … considering the hundreds or even thousands of hours they get from playing the game. The price per hour of this kind of entertainment is actually ridiculously cheap compared to lots of other entertaining hobbies you could be doing.

No, $50 is not much to pay, even if it’s just ‘one map, one new profession’, like someone people are proclaiming.

$50 is not much to pay?

A player posted this:

If you’re comparing costs you need to compare all the costs, including that game’s subscription fee which is from $12.99 to $14.99 per month.

Macs.6814:

Ayrilana.1396:

Macs.6814:

Once upon a time expansions used to cost 40 dollars (Eye Of the North) and came with 2 character slots.

People complained about the price of that just like they do for every expansion that is ever released.

“…..Eye of the North does not feature new professions, but has 18 new “multilevel” dungeons, 150 new skills (50 of them restricted to PvE), 40 new armor sets, and 10 new heroes, in addition to the new items, weapons, and titles….."
Im still not buying HoT until i know exactly what im paying for and/or if it’s worth it but i bet you it doesn’t come close to what Eye of the north had.

Did you play GW1? The dungeons weren’t really that large. The 150 skills is misleading as the combat systems are different with GW2 being more compacted. Armor sets are difficult to do in GW2 because of the different models. In GW1, everyone was human so it was easier. This game doesn’t use heroes either.

I do agree about waiting if the expansion doesn’t apoear to be worth the cost at this time. There’s really no loss by waiting until the day before to make the pre-purchase and get everything we got minus access to the betas.

Bubi.7942:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Bubi.7942:

So.

This is a supposed picture of the back cover of the HoT box (it is from a well trusted if not the most trusted online retailer in my country).

https://cdgalaxis.hu/termekkepek/hatlap/pcg/pcg_guild_wars_2_heart_of_thorns_standard_edition_pre_purchase_v1506.jpg

No mention on it of new PvE maps, “challenging group content”, PvP or WvW. If this cover is real then… this won’t end well.

I suppose this online retailer is more of a reliable source than the actual website managed by the company developing the expansion.

Well, I can’t think of a good reason to go and make a fake back cover.

Oh I know that.

I’m just questioning why you’re basing the expansion content on the back of a box from a third-party source as opposed to the website of the actual company.

I mean, the back of the box doesn’t mention Elite Specs either.

Although, market-speak wise, “Travel to the Magumma Jungle…” is an indication of new areas being opened up.

That’s not considering if you look at the back of a lot of game boxes, they don’t give specifics of the content. ESO doesn’t mention instanced content, Wildstar doesn’t mention dungeons, only raids.

Thank you GW2 team!

I was going to purchase the ultimate edition anyway, but perhaps was holding out because i was just a little disappointed that the rest of the community was so frustrated (even though I thought a lot of the arguments were baseless). I think the team has gone above what they needed to do at this point and I’m just glad they are listening. I feel very good about this

There was a mail, saying thanks for purchasing. but no items included.
The FAQ does however say the items will be received within “a few hours” – so I guess ill just wait for now.

I wish I could buy the expansion. :c

Asides addressing the main complaints about shady pre-purchase tactics here are 4 easy steps for you to make those pre-purchase copies moving:

1. determine and announce release date. It can be an estimation like spring 2016, but give your prospective buyers something to hang on to.

2. Announce the size and number of PvE zones in HoT.

3. Announce plans regarding LS3 – if it will happen and what sort of stuff will you throw in it (new maps? new skills? just story and achies?).

4. Announce beta schedules and open betas – no better way to get ppl who are on the fence to pre-purchase then giving them a taste of the actual thing. Unless it sucks and you know it, that is.

There, couldn’t lay it out simpler if I tried, and you’re welcome btw.

the problem is that it’s a very bad idea to announce htings before you’re absolutely sure. Having to change an announced plan is seriously bad mojo.

Like pre-sales of $50 expansion, with 0 information on release date, progress of development, planned size of it and plans post launch?

Can’t argue there;)

You don’t know how well the presales are doing tho :p

I agree, we wall want all the info you listed, but I would try to put myself in their shoes to understand why they might not be releasing that information yet.

Just to be sure.
A vet player that bought the game 40$ (yes some had, even know one that paid 60$ when the game just got out.) and buy the expension at 49.99$ will have pay a total of 89.99$.
But a brand new player will pay only the 49.99$ (add a 10$ if you want to count the extra character slot for the equivalence, so 59.99$ in that case).
So a vet player would have paid at least 30$ more then the new player in that case…
Sorry, but I don’t see the fairness for loyal players.

Xawen.2658:

Just to be sure.
A vet player that bought the game 40$ (yes some had, even know one that paid 60$ when the game just got out.) and buy the expension at 49.99$ will have pay a total of 89.99$.
But a brand new player will pay only the 49.99$ (add a 10$ if you want to count the extra character slot for the equivalence, so 59.99$ in that case).
So a vet player would have paid at least 30$ more then the new player in that case…
Sorry, but I don’t see the fairness for loyal players.

Game prices depreciate over time in case you hadn’t realized. When the game was marked down to $10, did you make a complaint known to Anet that people were getting the game $30 cheaper than you?

Ayrilana.1396:

Xawen.2658:

Just to be sure.
A vet player that bought the game 40$ (yes some had, even know one that paid 60$ when the game just got out.) and buy the expension at 49.99$ will have pay a total of 89.99$.
But a brand new player will pay only the 49.99$ (add a 10$ if you want to count the extra character slot for the equivalence, so 59.99$ in that case).
So a vet player would have paid at least 30$ more then the new player in that case…
Sorry, but I don’t see the fairness for loyal players.

Game prices depreciate over time in case you hadn’t realized. When the game was marked down to $10, did you make a complaint known to Anet that people were getting the game $30 cheaper than you?

Far from me the idea of getting rude.
But the game didn’t lower in price below 40$, it happened the have special rebate on sporadic weekends for various occasion. But it was still quoted 40$ or 40$ -75% special on those occasions. so according to this, the game cannot really be quoted at 10$ for calculating it’s value compared to the expansion since was still valued at 40$ when off rebates.

Ah but i do know how their pre-sales are doing – not too ..hot.

Simple deduction gives all the answers on the subject:

1. they stepped back from no character slot for vets tactic. It was designed to push sales or character slots from gemstore, or higher tier HoT bundles. That this changed is a proof community backlash for this low blow was serious enough to outweight the projected profit from this tactic – in short sale numbers must look grim compared to projected values.

2. They attached that character slot to pre-purchase. The push for selling those copies now is strong. What community wants is character slot for all HoT buyers, because revenant. No strings attached. By attaching it to pre-sale they’re still using shady tactic and risk backlash from players. But also make pre-purchase armed with strong bait for those of us not so hell-bent on keeping certain standards and principles of x-pac relases.

3. Gem store is going into overdrive recently. Anyone seen those Black Lion Ticket skins get coughed up so fast in succession? I never. They’re clearly on offensive with gem store, wanting to rake in some cash here and now.
Guess those presales didn’t deliver so far and alternative sources of “money now!” are needed.

Also if they were sensible never would they announce price before release date. They literally showed us the big, sharp, pointy shinining hook on a line, with little to no bait on it.

They either are that hard pressed for money, or made a really huge PR blunder and now the best they can do is to add the proper amount of bait on it, before way more fishies then they’d like will turn tail and wait till dust settles. Given that it’s clear they’re ..HoT..for money now, not “when it’s ready”..

Doesn’t really matter. Let’s say that new players could get the core game and expansion for $50 between now and a month after it’s released. Would you still complain? Time is irrelevant as those players that took advantage got a better deal than you.

How’s a lot of players getting a better deal than you during a short window any different than a lot of players getting a better deal than you over a longer window? What if the current promotion only lasted a weekend and the number of new players that would have purchased the game after the HoT announcement all purchased the game during that weekend. Would you still feel the way that you do?

First, I want to say that A-Net has done a very honorable thing in their refund, and while it may be ‘the least they can do’ for veteran players, they still did it, and relatively quickly.

Now, concerning the ongoing pricing model and the complaints people have about it:

Arena Net has decided to use a Subscription model. You get a subscription to updates, with the bonus that when you first subscribe you get most, if not all previous updates too. Each time an expansion comes out, your subscription to updates runs out and you must renew it. The price remains the same for the subscription no matter if you’ve been a netflix/Anet customer before.

So yes, you will ultimately pay more in the end if you bought it 3 years ago, or if you buy it now even because there will be another expansion most likely one day. But the value of games diminishes over time as well. Skyrim isn’t it’s original price either.

It’s completely fair to assert that the new content isn’t worth it and choose to buy the new subscription this time around. It’s also fair to complain about your dissatisfaction with the content. But the model itself is only shady/underhanded/unfair in any way is that they aren’t calling it a subscription model. Nothing else.

EDIT: I reworded this and removed my poor analogy to WoW. I hope this is more clear.

You are asking a release date from ANet before it’s 100% sure?

hahahahahahaha

Don’t you know that ANet are the inventors of “When it’s done” ?

When you buy the game, isn’t that a subscription for the length of time that you play the game?

What is shady is bundling the games and not giving a price discount for people who currently own the core game. I don’t understand how anyone can view that as not shady. You’re paying 50 USD for content which is a fraction of the content gotten from your initial purchase, while new buyers will get 110% content for your same initial price.

Operating costs exist yes but they should still provide a discount for current owners.

I understand your point. It’s just that I might be of the ones that where expecting an upgrade expansion from their current game for XX$ instead of a re-purchase of the game more expensive then their original purchase of the game.

Gaile Gray.6029:

vikkival.2459:

ricky markham.8173:

yes thank you gaile for bringing that to our attention. this is what i felt was right

See nothing to panic over. They’re always listening even if it doesn’t seem like it

It’s true. We are. We do. We always will.

Are you still? : p

Maybe they don’t need to push the presales, and they’re happy to wait.