Guild Wars 2

Logan will whine about he lost his pants in the jungle ,also will be crying"where is my queen?"
Then Rytlock will summon Gwen….

Gwen wouldn’t put up with his nonsense . I think we will feed logan to mordremoth and he gets indigestion and dies solving two problems with one stone.

What’s with the Logan hate? I like the way Rytlock and Logan interact.

And then Gwen will kill Rytlock for being a charr.

All will be right with the world

The actual answer is the biggest bro hug in the world and then they go get a drink (or 10) and Rytlock shows everyone how to play blindfold darts.

I like Logan, I also like Rytlock, they make an interesting pair.

Logan does not deserve the hate, nothing the character has done is bad, he whines far less than Kas and Jory.

Also why would we hate on Logan, who had a legitimate conflict of interests that got him to leave, when we could be hating Caithe who’s like always awful, and was totally terrible even before the LS?

You know, I really hope Logan’s the one who goes to bring Rytlock out of the Mists. It’d totally be the kind of thing that the finally-got-over-his-guilt Logan would do. Like what happened in the Citadel of Flame, only moreso.

I always hated the reasoning why Logan was hated. Rytlock was essentially kittened off that Logan chose Hos over Bros and he threatened to kill him over it. How messed up is that? Like no one has done what Logan did before.

Nova.8021:

I always hated the reasoning why Logan was hated. Rytlock was essentially kittened off that Logan chose Hos over Bros and he threatened to kill him over it. How messed up is that? Like no one has done what Logan did before.

You mean sacrifice an opportunity to destroy an Elder Dragon, save Glint and make the world a better place (with 1 less monarchy, so that’s a triple win)? Yeah I’m sure we’ve all done that at one point.

musu.9205:

Logan will whine about he lost his pants in the jungle ,also will be crying"where is my queen?"
Then Rytlock will summon Gwen….

Hey troll,, or should I say Charr, stop bashing Logan!!!

BrotherBelial.3094:

What’s with the Logan hate? I like the way Rytlock and Logan interact.

well logan pretty much ran off to protect the queen.. basically the most powerfull mesmer currently known in the middle of a kittening dragon battle that resulted in glint´s death. I dont like him either.. the humans deserve a cooler destiny edge hero.

I thought we were all on the “Logan falls to his death” Train…

:-p

Basaltface.2786:

BrotherBelial.3094:

What’s with the Logan hate? I like the way Rytlock and Logan interact.

well logan pretty much ran off to protect the queen.. basically the most powerfull mesmer currently known in the middle of a kittening dragon battle that resulted in glint´s death. I dont like him either.. the humans deserve a cooler destiny edge hero.

He’s kind of tragic really, dude’s under some heavy magic mojo and the woman he loves and would give anything for consistently treats him like a pile of kitten.

The people we should hate are Jennah and maybe Anise. They mind controlled him and got him in a ‘no right answers’ setup. And then after he let his friends down, they’re super contemptuous of him and keep him out of the loop (per the kidnapping scheme).

Windsagio.1340:

Basaltface.2786:

BrotherBelial.3094:

What’s with the Logan hate? I like the way Rytlock and Logan interact.

well logan pretty much ran off to protect the queen.. basically the most powerfull mesmer currently known in the middle of a kittening dragon battle that resulted in glint´s death. I dont like him either.. the humans deserve a cooler destiny edge hero.

He’s kind of tragic really, dude’s under some heavy magic mojo and the woman he loves and would give anything for consistently treats him like a pile of kitten.

The people we should hate are Jennah and maybe Anise. They mind controlled him and got him in a ‘no right answers’ setup. And then after he let his friends down, they’re super contemptuous of him and keep him out of the loop (per the kidnapping scheme).

Agreed. Hate Jennah, not Logan. After all he’s still pretty kitten and has sacrificed himself for the team (when we all thought he died in the last battle against Zhaitan.)

Randulf.7614:

And then Gwen will kill Rytlock for being a charr.

All will be right with the world

I’m hoping Gwen and Rytlock will team up to kill Logan for being a coward who runs away from his friends before a fight.

Ah, it’s another Logan-bashing thread. How neat, it’s been ages since I saw one.

I anticipate Logan teasing Rytlock about “running away” into the Mists after his sword and then burying the whole thing under piles of Mordrem.

Windsagio.1340:

The actual answer is the biggest bro hug in the world and then they go get a drink (or 10) and Rytlock shows everyone how to play blindfold darts.

And then Rytlock teaches us how to be Revenants and we all go using Glint’s power to pwn the dragons.

I really hope Logan dies at some point in the expansion. Would be awesome if he is already dead. Sacrificed himself to save the others and stuff like that. I was so happy when I saw him die at the end of Arah story but nooo, he just had to come back…

Is Logan French?

Sorry, I had to.

Eilis.6089:

Windsagio.1340:

Basaltface.2786:

BrotherBelial.3094:

What’s with the Logan hate? I like the way Rytlock and Logan interact.

well logan pretty much ran off to protect the queen.. basically the most powerfull mesmer currently known in the middle of a kittening dragon battle that resulted in glint´s death. I dont like him either.. the humans deserve a cooler destiny edge hero.

He’s kind of tragic really, dude’s under some heavy magic mojo and the woman he loves and would give anything for consistently treats him like a pile of kitten.

The people we should hate are Jennah and maybe Anise. They mind controlled him and got him in a ‘no right answers’ setup. And then after he let his friends down, they’re super contemptuous of him and keep him out of the loop (per the kidnapping scheme).

Agreed. Hate Jennah, not Logan. After all he’s still pretty kitten and has sacrificed himself for the team (when we all thought he died in the last battle against Zhaitan.)

thats the least he could do after kittening over tyrias only (known) ally dragon, getting snaff killed AND basically leaving his “sorta” brother rytlock behind while fighting a god darn elder dragon. And yea.. ryltock and logan exchanged items that mean a lot to them… rytlocks blood legion pendant and queen jennah´s silk scarf. There is some tight stuff going on and that running off really broke a bro code here…and one does not simply break a bro code ESPECIALLY not in a battle against an enemie that pretty much is a very real threat against all of tyria. When your priority is to protect somebody who is very well equipped to protect herself…most likely even more so then logan ever will be able to while dooming a really nice, friendly, smart, loving and powerfull dragon ally, getting a legendary asura inventor killed while breaking his apprentice´s heart (zoijja) that saw snaff as a father figure, betraying your sorta brother and tight friend thats the tribune of the most war hungry legion of a race who fought the humans for quite a while now but obviosly wanting peace AND sodding friendship with humanity aswell serve as a perfect example that peace can be archived and then also having audacity to pretty much call him unworthy of the sword he weilds cause its a human artifact is tragic? No…logan is a kitten, a horrible HORRIBLE kittenbag who does not deserve his family name , his place in the destiny edge or even to be a human hero. I as a charr player can only say that i am VERY sorry for humans to have this kitten as their representative in the destiny edge and i do hope he gets axed off in a horrible way like he deserves and replaced by a worthy hero. I rest my case..

Windsagio.1340:

The actual answer is the biggest bro hug in the world and then they go get a drink (or 10) and Rytlock shows everyone how to play blindfold darts.

This is my favorite.

CureForLiving.5360:

Nova.8021:

I always hated the reasoning why Logan was hated. Rytlock was essentially kittened off that Logan chose Hos over Bros and he threatened to kill him over it. How messed up is that? Like no one has done what Logan did before.

You mean sacrifice an opportunity to destroy an Elder Dragon, save Glint and make the world a better place (with 1 less monarchy, so that’s a triple win)? Yeah I’m sure we’ve all done that at one point.

people tend to forget what “1 less monarchy” would mean.

human/charr war would still be ongoing, the corrupt ministry (who, might i remind you, has connections to the white mantle) would take over, and ebonhawke would’ve fallen. if logan hadn’t held the branded off long enough to keep the queen from being overwhelmed, most, if not all, of humanity would have been gone by now.

but yeah, snaff died, how dare that logan.

I hate Logan for having no backbone. Characters who are too easily influenced are a bit… annoying. It always seems like he can’t make his own decisions, which is where all the others tend to come out on top. Hell, even Trahaerne.

BrunoBRS.5178:

CureForLiving.5360:

Nova.8021:

I always hated the reasoning why Logan was hated. Rytlock was essentially kittened off that Logan chose Hos over Bros and he threatened to kill him over it. How messed up is that? Like no one has done what Logan did before.

You mean sacrifice an opportunity to destroy an Elder Dragon, save Glint and make the world a better place (with 1 less monarchy, so that’s a triple win)? Yeah I’m sure we’ve all done that at one point.

people tend to forget what “1 less monarchy” would mean.

human/charr war would still be ongoing, the corrupt ministry (who, might i remind you, has connections to the white mantle) would take over, and ebonhawke would’ve fallen. if logan hadn’t held the branded off long enough to keep the queen from being overwhelmed, most, if not all, of humanity would have been gone by now.

but yeah, snaff died, how dare that logan.

If I recall corectly , he didn’t exactly do much…. Jennah did most of the heavy lifting.

Dasenthal.6520:

BrunoBRS.5178:

CureForLiving.5360:

Nova.8021:

I always hated the reasoning why Logan was hated. Rytlock was essentially kittened off that Logan chose Hos over Bros and he threatened to kill him over it. How messed up is that? Like no one has done what Logan did before.

You mean sacrifice an opportunity to destroy an Elder Dragon, save Glint and make the world a better place (with 1 less monarchy, so that’s a triple win)? Yeah I’m sure we’ve all done that at one point.

people tend to forget what “1 less monarchy” would mean.

human/charr war would still be ongoing, the corrupt ministry (who, might i remind you, has connections to the white mantle) would take over, and ebonhawke would’ve fallen. if logan hadn’t held the branded off long enough to keep the queen from being overwhelmed, most, if not all, of humanity would have been gone by now.

but yeah, snaff died, how dare that logan.

If I recall corectly , he didn’t exactly do much…. Jennah did most of the heavy lifting.

^^ Basically he acted the knight in shining armor when the damsel wasn’t in too much of a distress.

Dondagora.9645:

Dasenthal.6520:

BrunoBRS.5178:

CureForLiving.5360:

Nova.8021:

I always hated the reasoning why Logan was hated. Rytlock was essentially kittened off that Logan chose Hos over Bros and he threatened to kill him over it. How messed up is that? Like no one has done what Logan did before.

You mean sacrifice an opportunity to destroy an Elder Dragon, save Glint and make the world a better place (with 1 less monarchy, so that’s a triple win)? Yeah I’m sure we’ve all done that at one point.

people tend to forget what “1 less monarchy” would mean.

human/charr war would still be ongoing, the corrupt ministry (who, might i remind you, has connections to the white mantle) would take over, and ebonhawke would’ve fallen. if logan hadn’t held the branded off long enough to keep the queen from being overwhelmed, most, if not all, of humanity would have been gone by now.

but yeah, snaff died, how dare that logan.

If I recall corectly , he didn’t exactly do much…. Jennah did most of the heavy lifting.

^^ Basically he acted the knight in shining armor when the damsel wasn’t in too much of a distress.

that “damsel” could kick logans boot licking kitten to the moon and back with a backhanded slap…

If Rytlock summons Snaff it will be glorious.

at the moment we didnt even know if logan is still alive…

The last thing we know is that Logan, Eir and Zojja crashed into the enemy maguuma jungle.
So atm we could say that they form a new Group “Schrödingers Edge” – they are dead and alive at the same time .. we won’t know till we’re traveling to the jungle

TexZero.7910:

If Rytlock summons Snaff it will be glorious.

Well, it could be possible since he’s a revenant? lol.

Rytlock will not meet up with Logan again as Logan died, along with Eir and Zojja.

flees from the fallout of that comment

The whole point of Logan’s conflict is that he was in an impossible conflict. If Jennah could have handled it she could have handled it, but she put him in with the Telepethy/mesmer crap, and left him with no choice, what with the binding oath and all.

The fact that he made the wrong choice in hindsight makes it even more tragic, but that’s the whole point.

Logan made a hard choice, and manned up to it. It’s not like he’s Caithe

Basaltface.2786:

BrotherBelial.3094:

What’s with the Logan hate? I like the way Rytlock and Logan interact.

well logan pretty much ran off to protect the queen.. basically the most powerfull mesmer currently known in the middle of a kittening dragon battle that resulted in glint´s death. I dont like him either.. the humans deserve a cooler destiny edge hero.

Yeah I’ve read the book. It so much has happened since then. I’m guessing most people still on the “hate train” have not done the story mode of the dungeons.

It’s not like he’s a dragon minion or anything.

Dondagora.9645:

Dasenthal.6520:

BrunoBRS.5178:

CureForLiving.5360:

Nova.8021:

I always hated the reasoning why Logan was hated. Rytlock was essentially kittened off that Logan chose Hos over Bros and he threatened to kill him over it. How messed up is that? Like no one has done what Logan did before.

You mean sacrifice an opportunity to destroy an Elder Dragon, save Glint and make the world a better place (with 1 less monarchy, so that’s a triple win)? Yeah I’m sure we’ve all done that at one point.

people tend to forget what “1 less monarchy” would mean.

human/charr war would still be ongoing, the corrupt ministry (who, might i remind you, has connections to the white mantle) would take over, and ebonhawke would’ve fallen. if logan hadn’t held the branded off long enough to keep the queen from being overwhelmed, most, if not all, of humanity would have been gone by now.

but yeah, snaff died, how dare that logan.

If I recall corectly , he didn’t exactly do much…. Jennah did most of the heavy lifting.

^^ Basically he acted the knight in shining armor when the damsel wasn’t in too much of a distress.

as for me basically he acted like a meatshield to give wizard enought peacefull time to cast uber-spell (yeah yeah I know jennah was mesmer not wizard)

lets do not forget that before quen have done her uber mesmerism the long time passed – the time when logan was keeping branded at bay to no reach the queen

I don’t think that she would be able to do her epic meserism if she had 5 minutes for it instead.

also he wanted to come back to stay on the main plan of guild – stuff just took much longer than he expected….

Lord Trejgon.2809:

Dondagora.9645:

Dasenthal.6520:

BrunoBRS.5178:

CureForLiving.5360:

Nova.8021:

I always hated the reasoning why Logan was hated. Rytlock was essentially kittened off that Logan chose Hos over Bros and he threatened to kill him over it. How messed up is that? Like no one has done what Logan did before.

You mean sacrifice an opportunity to destroy an Elder Dragon, save Glint and make the world a better place (with 1 less monarchy, so that’s a triple win)? Yeah I’m sure we’ve all done that at one point.

people tend to forget what “1 less monarchy” would mean.

human/charr war would still be ongoing, the corrupt ministry (who, might i remind you, has connections to the white mantle) would take over, and ebonhawke would’ve fallen. if logan hadn’t held the branded off long enough to keep the queen from being overwhelmed, most, if not all, of humanity would have been gone by now.

but yeah, snaff died, how dare that logan.

If I recall corectly , he didn’t exactly do much…. Jennah did most of the heavy lifting.

^^ Basically he acted the knight in shining armor when the damsel wasn’t in too much of a distress.

as for me basically he acted like a meatshield to give wizard enought peacefull time to cast uber-spell (yeah yeah I know jennah was mesmer not wizard)

lets do not forget that before quen have done her uber mesmerism the long time passed – the time when logan was keeping branded at bay to no reach the queen

I don’t think that she would be able to do her epic meserism if she had 5 minutes for it instead.

also he wanted to come back to stay on the main plan of guild – stuff just took much longer than he expected….

kittening THIS. Why do people still fail to grasp that Jennah, powerful as she is, needed time to conjure that illusion (or at least time to conjure it in a way that wouldn’t result in her death), time she would not have had if Logan hadn’t been there to rally the defenses (including charr captives, when anyone else likely would have spat upon the very idea of it). There are a few other examples in lore of Mesmers conjuring great illusions, and while the after effects of Kitah’s illusion weren’t spelled out explicitly ( she still died, but it wasn’t made clear if it was due to the spell, or from wounds sustained during her battle with Appollonia), what happened to Koro Sagewind the two times she did something on that scale were made quite clear.

Koro Sagewind

“The lieutenant seems like the model soldier now, but when he first joined the Falcons, he was as reckless as they come. One time, I had to conjure an illusion half the size of the Eye of the North just to cover for his screwup. The ether backlash blinded me for a week; it was a rather unpleasant experience.”

The Founding: Volume XIII

As night fell on what was to be our last day upon the plains, the massive assault began. There seemed to be no end to the murderous charr. When one fell, two or three others were there to take its place. Dawn was barely breaking when Koro Sagewind called for people to break for the hills. Lawrence Crafton and Rigo Bolan stood guard while Koro cast the greatest illusion I would ever witness in this lifetime. A mystical army arrived from the north. Most of the charr broke off and, in feral bloodlust, charged the illusion. Koro’s trick bought us the time we needed to prepare for the next assault.

The Founding: Volume XV

Koro approached the camp at dusk, her two defenders nowhere in sight. Her pace slowed and staggered. Blood dripped from her face and, blinded, she tripped over a rock. She fell before our makeshift camp. Koro had tapped her own life force so that we would make it. Keiran held her in his arms in her final moments. She reminded him of the last time she had created such an illusion to save her unit, years before. Her parting words bolstered our desire to survive. She truly was the heart of the Falcons, but the Vanguard would not let her death be in vain.

If Jennah had died, there would have been no peace treaty between humans and charr, which quite effectively removes two races as a threat to the elder dragons because they’d be too busy going at each others throats. Do you really think just the Norn, Sylvari and Asura could have taken down Zhaitan?

As for Destiny’s Edge, they could very well have failed even if Logan was there.

They would have an epic duel in who is the most boring stereotype in Tyra

Btw: Logan did nothing wrong. He pledged to serve Jennah and she needed his help. If he refused to go and she died he would be an dishonorable oathbreaker and traitor. Because Jennah is not just some girl he met the other day, she is the queen of Kryta and since he was and still is commander of the Seraph he had no choice.

Btw why wasn’t Rytlock on board of the airship with others when they attacked Mordremoth? Oh he was chasing some ancient sword in the mists because his race need it to mop up the remnants of genocide that they caused in Ascalon. Not selfish at all and totally different from what Logan did…. right?

Logan is an interesting character and he doesn’t whine all that much. Troy Baker does a phenomenal job with him too.

It’s interesting to see where Logan will end up. I think he will get over Jennah at one point, maybe even quit the military and go back to being a vagabond.

Brahmincorle.1264:

They would have an epic duel in who is the most boring stereotype in Tyra

Btw: Logan did nothing wrong. He pledged to serve Jennah and she needed his help. If he refused to go and she died he would be an dishonorable oathbreaker and traitor. Because Jennah is not just some girl he met the other day, she is the queen of Kryta and since he was and still is commander of the Seraph he had no choice.

Btw why wasn’t Rytlock on board of the airship with others when they attacked Mordremoth? Oh he was chasing some ancient sword in the mists because his race need it to mop up the remnants of genocide that they caused in Ascalon. Not selfish at all and totally different from what Logan did…. right?

How did charr cause the genocide exactly? They were fighting for their homeland in a brutal but direct fashion, and the humans took the dirty way out, resulting in wiping out their own kingdom.

And yes it is different because the fight with mordremoth wasn’t hours away when he left for an equally heroic quest. Logan practically left at the last possible moment leaving Destiny’s Edge holding the remains of a poor plan with one less player in the fight….
Plus it’s 4+an army without Rytlock
It was just 4 and a small dragon without Logan.

Dasenthal.6520:

BrunoBRS.5178:

CureForLiving.5360:

Nova.8021:

I always hated the reasoning why Logan was hated. Rytlock was essentially kittened off that Logan chose Hos over Bros and he threatened to kill him over it. How messed up is that? Like no one has done what Logan did before.

You mean sacrifice an opportunity to destroy an Elder Dragon, save Glint and make the world a better place (with 1 less monarchy, so that’s a triple win)? Yeah I’m sure we’ve all done that at one point.

people tend to forget what “1 less monarchy” would mean.

human/charr war would still be ongoing, the corrupt ministry (who, might i remind you, has connections to the white mantle) would take over, and ebonhawke would’ve fallen. if logan hadn’t held the branded off long enough to keep the queen from being overwhelmed, most, if not all, of humanity would have been gone by now.

but yeah, snaff died, how dare that logan.

If I recall corectly , he didn’t exactly do much…. Jennah did most of the heavy lifting.

let’s remember that jennah was the one that called for logan. he didn’t even know where she was until she saw it necessary to summon him. and she seems pretty insistent on not holding him around unless extremely necessary.

logan might not have gotten rid of the branded like jennah did, but jennah only managed to do that because he held the branded back while she prepared her illusion with anise. if no one was holding the branded from barging in, she’d have died, and so would the rest of ebonhawke.

the amount of selective reading to justify not liking logan is ridiculous.

Dasenthal.6520:

How did charr cause the genocide exactly? They were fighting for their homeland in a brutal but direct fashion, and the humans took the dirty way out, resulting in wiping out their own kingdom.

The searing…

Dasenthal.6520:

And yes it is different because the fight with mordremoth wasn’t hours away when he left for an equally heroic quest. Logan practically left at the last possible moment leaving Destiny’s Edge holding the remains of a poor plan with one less player in the fight….
Plus it’s 4+an army without Rytlock
It was just 4 and a small dragon without Logan.

They could abandon that plan and just retreat. Yes I agree there is a difference though. Logan had to leave, Rytlock decided to leave.

Brahmincorle.1264:

Dasenthal.6520:

How did charr cause the genocide exactly? They were fighting for their homeland in a brutal but direct fashion, and the humans took the dirty way out, resulting in wiping out their own kingdom.

The searing…

Dasenthal.6520:

And yes it is different because the fight with mordremoth wasn’t hours away when he left for an equally heroic quest. Logan practically left at the last possible moment leaving Destiny’s Edge holding the remains of a poor plan with one less player in the fight….
Plus it’s 4+an army without Rytlock
It was just 4 and a small dragon without Logan.

They could abandon that plan and just retreat. Yes I agree there is a difference though. Logan had to leave, Rytlock decided to leave.

1. Searing didn’t cause the ghosts, king adelbern did.
2. If queen jennah saying “save me!” Constitutes being forced to leave, than so does jumping into a hole leading into the mists to save your ancestral homeland. No matter how important jennah may be, Rytlock is saving his race from countless more losses (not to mention potentially other races once the charr can focus entirely on dragons) versus Logan saving a possibly important individual, because of his love interest.

Dasenthal.6520:

Brahmincorle.1264:

Dasenthal.6520:

How did charr cause the genocide exactly? They were fighting for their homeland in a brutal but direct fashion, and the humans took the dirty way out, resulting in wiping out their own kingdom.

The searing…

Dasenthal.6520:

And yes it is different because the fight with mordremoth wasn’t hours away when he left for an equally heroic quest. Logan practically left at the last possible moment leaving Destiny’s Edge holding the remains of a poor plan with one less player in the fight….
Plus it’s 4+an army without Rytlock
It was just 4 and a small dragon without Logan.

They could abandon that plan and just retreat. Yes I agree there is a difference though. Logan had to leave, Rytlock decided to leave.

1. Searing didn’t cause the ghosts, king adelbern did.
2. If queen jennah saying “save me!” Constitutes being forced to leave, than so does jumping into a hole leading into the mists to save your ancestral homeland. No matter how important jennah may be, Rytlock is saving his race from countless more losses (not to mention potentially other races once the charr can focus entirely on dragons) versus Logan saving a possibly important individual, because of his love interest.

When did I said the searing caused ghosts? I said the searing was a genocide and ghosts are just indirect remnants of what Charr did back then.

Love interest , duty and honor.

Brahmincorle.1264:

Dasenthal.6520:

Brahmincorle.1264:

Dasenthal.6520:

How did charr cause the genocide exactly? They were fighting for their homeland in a brutal but direct fashion, and the humans took the dirty way out, resulting in wiping out their own kingdom.

The searing…

Dasenthal.6520:

And yes it is different because the fight with mordremoth wasn’t hours away when he left for an equally heroic quest. Logan practically left at the last possible moment leaving Destiny’s Edge holding the remains of a poor plan with one less player in the fight….
Plus it’s 4+an army without Rytlock
It was just 4 and a small dragon without Logan.

They could abandon that plan and just retreat. Yes I agree there is a difference though. Logan had to leave, Rytlock decided to leave.

1. Searing didn’t cause the ghosts, king adelbern did.
2. If queen jennah saying “save me!” Constitutes being forced to leave, than so does jumping into a hole leading into the mists to save your ancestral homeland. No matter how important jennah may be, Rytlock is saving his race from countless more losses (not to mention potentially other races once the charr can focus entirely on dragons) versus Logan saving a possibly important individual, because of his love interest.

When did I said the searing caused ghosts? I said the searing was a genocide and ghosts are just indirect remnants of what Charr did back then.

Love interest , duty and honor.

Ok… Using that logic you’re saying that the charr attacked the humans (true), and because the humans couldn’t win they (mostly adelbern) blew themselves up… And its still the charr’s fault?

Fine, we’ll take it a step further: The humans (many generations back) “invaded” the charr land, when the charr finally found a way to get their land back they used it. Then gw1 takes place… Then Adelbern blows everything up, etc.. So the humans still indirectly and directly caused the ghosts, which forced Rytlock to jump in the hole to save his people…
I still reserve even with “Love, honor, and duty” he had a choice, and if we disagree there than I would argue Rytlock certainly was not given a choice.

Dasenthal.6520:

Brahmincorle.1264:

Dasenthal.6520:

Brahmincorle.1264:

Dasenthal.6520:

How did charr cause the genocide exactly? They were fighting for their homeland in a brutal but direct fashion, and the humans took the dirty way out, resulting in wiping out their own kingdom.

The searing…

Dasenthal.6520:

And yes it is different because the fight with mordremoth wasn’t hours away when he left for an equally heroic quest. Logan practically left at the last possible moment leaving Destiny’s Edge holding the remains of a poor plan with one less player in the fight….
Plus it’s 4+an army without Rytlock
It was just 4 and a small dragon without Logan.

They could abandon that plan and just retreat. Yes I agree there is a difference though. Logan had to leave, Rytlock decided to leave.

1. Searing didn’t cause the ghosts, king adelbern did.
2. If queen jennah saying “save me!” Constitutes being forced to leave, than so does jumping into a hole leading into the mists to save your ancestral homeland. No matter how important jennah may be, Rytlock is saving his race from countless more losses (not to mention potentially other races once the charr can focus entirely on dragons) versus Logan saving a possibly important individual, because of his love interest.

When did I said the searing caused ghosts? I said the searing was a genocide and ghosts are just indirect remnants of what Charr did back then.

Love interest , duty and honor.

Ok… Using that logic you’re saying that the charr attacked the humans (true), and because the humans couldn’t win they (mostly adelbern) blew themselves up… And its still the charr’s fault?

Fine, we’ll take it a step further: The humans (many generations back) “invaded” the charr land, when the charr finally found a way to get their land back they used it. Then gw1 takes place… Then Adelbern blows everything up, etc.. So the humans still indirectly and directly caused the ghosts, which forced Rytlock to jump in the hole to save his people…
I still reserve even with “Love, honor, and duty” he had a choice, and if we disagree there than I would argue Rytlock certainly was not given a choice.

the searing is like nuclear bomb…. Charr lost heir homeland hundreds of years before the searing. It is like if Greece nuked the entire Turkey because much of the Turkey was once part of the Greece. That is something unimaginable but Charr did it.

No as I said above, Logan had no choice. If he refused to help Jennah he would be an oathbreaker and traitor and since he is white paladin stereotype in this game, he had to help her no matter the cost. (Btw: this internal conflict between him as a loayal soldier, member of Destiny’s Edge and in platonic love with Jennah is the only thing interesting on this otherwise boring character).

Windsagio.1340:

The whole point of Logan’s conflict is that he was in an impossible conflict. If Jennah could have handled it she could have handled it, but she put him in with the Telepethy/mesmer crap, and left him with no choice, what with the binding oath and all.

The fact that he made the wrong choice in hindsight makes it even more tragic, but that’s the whole point.

Logan made a hard choice, and manned up to it. It’s not like he’s Caithe

What do you mean by Caithe? You mean being forced into killing your sister to protect a secret that would destroy your entire culture and then not being able to talk to anyone about it other than a overbearing mother figure who did nothing to help you through but instead made you feel guilty and torn between your shunned lover (ok that’s creepy with the incest and all that…) and your family.

Sure… she’s such a pansy…

I believe she’s fought 2 dragons, Logan so far? 0?

Windsagio.1340:

The whole point of Logan’s conflict is that he was in an impossible conflict. If Jennah could have handled it she could have handled it, but she put him in with the Telepethy/mesmer crap, and left him with no choice, what with the binding oath and all.

The fact that he made the wrong choice in hindsight makes it even more tragic, but that’s the whole point.

Logan made a hard choice, and manned up to it. It’s not like he’s Caithe

Glad someone else noticed this. Having mained a Sylvari, I’ve also found her attitude towards the PC is often cold when their choices don’t line up with her preferences.

Dasenthal.6520:

How did charr cause the genocide exactly? They were fighting for their homeland in a brutal but direct fashion, and the humans took the dirty way out, resulting in wiping out their own kingdom.

King Adelbern was one man, not the entire human race.

But getting back to the issue of Logan hate, he is stuck in a position where either course of action would have left him easily branded as a terrible guy based on anyone’s personal bias.

Option A: Leave your guild at the last moment to save your Queen/True Love, knowing they could fail without you. Or with you.

Option B: Leave your Queen/True Love to her fate- knowing SHE could die, and that your guildmates are working for the greater good. Also, their plan could still fail.

So either way he’s open for deeming a liar and traitor. I find I actually like him the most out of Destiny’s Edge (along with Eir), because he admits it was a difficult choice rather than making excuses, unlike certain other members of the group.

Also, am I the only one thinking a plan that hinges so badly on one person being there is probably not a good plan?

Jerus.4350:

Windsagio.1340:

The whole point of Logan’s conflict is that he was in an impossible conflict. If Jennah could have handled it she could have handled it, but she put him in with the Telepethy/mesmer crap, and left him with no choice, what with the binding oath and all.

The fact that he made the wrong choice in hindsight makes it even more tragic, but that’s the whole point.

Logan made a hard choice, and manned up to it. It’s not like he’s Caithe

What do you mean by Caithe? You mean being forced into killing your sister to protect a secret that would destroy your entire culture and then not being able to talk to anyone about it other than a overbearing mother figure who did nothing to help you through but instead made you feel guilty and torn between your shunned lover (ok that’s creepy with the incest and all that…) and your family.

Sure… she’s such a pansy…

I believe she’s fought 2 dragons, Logan so far? 0?

Caithe didn’t have to kill Wynne. Caithe could have killed Faolain, who openly admitted she was about to torture Wynne for info she wanted purely because she didn’t have it. Also, Caithe ran off with an egg that she could have easily explained to us what she was going to do with it, but instead decided to go with “No time to explain!” Really Caithe?

And “overbearing mother” seems like another personal bias issue, especially when we haven’t seen exactly how the tree treated Caithe during that time period. And given Caithe’s standing history of bad choices I’m not inclined to believe the Pale Tree treated her badly. Just because you love someone doesn’t mean you will never have conflict with them, and just because you have conflict doesn’t mean that you can’t love them.

Life is filled with choices, and we don’t always make good ones. As long as we learn from them. That’s true of everyone in Destiny’s Edge, and they all have areas they need to improve in.

Yojimaru.4980:

If Jennah had died, there would have been no peace treaty between humans and charr, which quite effectively removes two races as a threat to the elder dragons because they’d be too busy going at each others throats. Do you really think just the Norn, Sylvari and Asura could have taken down Zhaitan?

As for Destiny’s Edge, they could very well have failed even if Logan was there.

There are no definite answers as to what would have happened. An elder dragon falling to a small team comprised representatives of all races would’ve potentially united the world better I believe. Fall of Lion’s Arch seems to have done that very well.

As for Jennah dying… she may have survived had she chosen to run instead of fight. And even if she died, it is rather unlikely that new ruler would lead his race to extinction. Maybe he/she comes around after a few deaths (or few thousands… either/or) & that would still have been preferable to get rid of an Elder Dragon and saving Glint & Snaff. Even one of them alive may very well have saved comparatively more lives in future conflicts against other dragons.

And Destiny’s Edge would most certainly not have failed.
Rytlock missing the hit coz dragon flew away. He flew coz snaff died. he died coz caithe failed to stop mobs. she failed coz logan ran away.

Logan made an extremely bad call as did Jennah for calling him back… knowing full well what he was doing. They are both to blame.

I didn’t want to massively reboot the caithe issue, beyond 1 specific difference.

Logan made mistakes, so did Caithe. The comparison is clear and almost certainly intentional.

Logan came clean, even from the beginning he had guilt, but when push came to shove he said “I did what I thought I had to do, maybe it was the wrong thing” and he has the good taste to feel guilty about it.

Caithe still has never chosen to face her mistakes, and shows no sign of doing so. She hides her guilt and makes excuses and says “YOU MUST TRUST ME!” all the time, but she’s unwilling to come to terms with her past (and present) mistakes.

~~~

The interaction between Logan and Rytlock is one of the most legitimately heroic things we see in the story of DE. Both of them had to admit their own mistakes and prejudices and come clean… and they both acknowledged that it was only a start. It was brave and noble on both of their parts.

Caithe has nothing like that, and probably can’t because nobody actually likes her anyways (as far as dialogue goes). Nobody likes her because she’s secretive and dodgy, because she can’t and won’t come to terms with her personal guilt.

~~~

We could say that’s the distinction between the paladin and the thief, but it’s still striking.

… she feels guilty because of what she had to do to protect a secret that if it got out would destroy the sylvari culture.

How would it make sense to come out and admit it? “hey guys, I killed my elder sister because she knew a secret that Sylvari are the children of Mordremoth, and my lover was going to torture my sister to find that out, I couldn’t bring myself (or just couldn’t /shrug) kill my lover or defend my sister from her, so I killed my sister to prevent the secret from ever getting out”

Queue everyone’s reaction “You’re the children of WHAT?”

No one cares about her guilt or her feelings, she was trying to keep a secret.

And, rewatch the faolin/caithe stuff, you’ll hear discussions of the pale tree being overbearing, expecting perfection.