Guild Wars 2

Map timers is not “casual unfriendly” it is consumer unfriendly.

^^ That’s true … I think the timers are unfriendly, PERIOD. I just think they hurt the guy that can’t schedule massive and specific chunks of his time more than the guy whole already planning a whole day of playing.

I haven’t read all 9 pages of this, but I’d like to throw in this, especially because I’ve noticed a lot of QQs.

Raids were added for those who would like a greater challenge. It was not intended for everyone. They are not forcing casuals to do it. The only beneficial things are ascended boxes, skins and minis, nothing game changing. Typically I find that casuals don’t strive for ascended armour anyways, and ascended armour can be crafted, gotten from pvp, fractals, etc. So getting ascended from the raids shouldn’t be considered “game changing”.

Raids are in no way blocking progress, maybe just missing out on slight side story.

YET, I see and hear of casual players trying to do raids, then complain. A lot of times they not only meet the required skill level, they do not want to spend an extended period of time raiding, and a lot of times are unwilling to adapt to a different class.

“I like playing condi revenant, I don’t want to do boring power revenant.”
“I use full soldier’s because berserker makes me squishy.”
“I like running full magi on my thief, because it sustains me better.”

All the meanwhile the group(s) are lacking and these casual players refuse to adapt.

They then complain raids are too hard, or that Anet is moving towards “that 1%”.

That’s not a fair claim. The community wanted harder content. Anet gave it. To be honest before raids there was no hard content.

In my opinion nowadays there is no balance between casual and noncasual. People are either “casual players ruin the game” or “hardcore gamers make the game hostile” which often leads to “I don’t want to follow the meta” (which is fair, people can play what they want" vs “the meta is efficient and I would like to do this efficiently so I can move on to OTHER aspects”. Albeit, these arguments may not present itself so nicely.

STOP COMPLAINING. Anet is trying to cater to everyone, and I think GW2 has a great balance. There isn’t anything game breaking that prevents casual players from playing.

NaotsuguLH.8915:

…snip
STOP COMPLAINING. Anet is trying to cater to everyone, and I think GW2 has a great balance. There isn’t anything game breaking that prevents casual players from playing.

I could care less for the raids, nor do I care that X players needs Y equipment for Z meta. What concerns me is the constant reliance on watching the clock in order to get to a meta in progress. Dynamic events should be IMO player driven or we are no better than furniture in a massive player game.

So to address the quoted section: “There isn’t anything game breaking that prevents casual players from playing” I will add, but they must set aside time to watch the clock with HoT.

Honestly it does not have to be US vs THEM thread at all. And if it is a conflict it is only those with tons of time vs them that don’t ANet has driven a wedge between.

NaotsuguLH.8915:

Raids were added for those who would like a greater challenge. It was not intended for everyone. They are not forcing casuals to do it.

Then they shouldn’t have nerfed dungeon rewards into the ground and told people to move to fractals and Raids.
They shouldn’t have locked legendary armor (as well as some ascended stat spreads) behind raids as well (yes, casuals want to be able to get those too).

ThreeHitDown.2169:

I remember when people complained that Gw2 is “too casual”.Now people complain that the game is not “casual friendly” and too challenging.Shrugs

“Challenging” has nothing to do with it. It’s the layers and layers of ways to make players waste time. When you have to earn the equivalent of 4 levels killing the equivalent of wandering monsters (from D&D), it’s boring. When you CANNOT attain all the masteries (in central Tyria), it’s frustrating. And when it’s extremely rare for anybody on the map to respond to requests for help, that’s downright unfriendly.

Guild Wars has never been about gating and boring grinds, and it’s always been highly friendly. HoT changed all that and more.

But don’t equate it to “too challenging”. Challenging implies you have to up your game, or solve new puzzles, or whatever. HoT did NOT do that (except possibly raiding, which I’ve avoided and so can’t speak to).

Astralporing.1957:

… and told people to move to fractals and …

And nerfed the rewards there, too.

Daddicus.6128:

Astralporing.1957:

… and told people to move to fractals and …

And nerfed the rewards there, too.

Actually, fractal rewards are better now than ever.

Not mine, but I’m not a heavy fractal player.

Daddicus.6128:

Not mine, but I’m not a heavy fractal player.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/18IHVJao5j85KOp6lBTOgO8qs4VYD3Xty-jKPZo8o-Q4/pubhtml#

The drop rate of ascended weapons and armor is similar to pre-HoT levels, except it takes a lot less time to do 56, 67, 77 than a full 50 run from before HoT. That’s also not considering the liquid rewards from encryptions.

That’s not “fractal rewards”. That’s “high level fractal rewards”. Remember, we were talking about casuals that moved out of dungeons here – and they are unlikely to even have AR for those levels.

Astralporing.1957:

That’s not “fractal rewards”. That’s “high level fractal rewards”. Remember, we were talking about casuals that moved out of dungeons here – and they are unlikely to even have AR for those levels.

What’s stopping them from getting it then? You move out of dungeons and climb the Fractal “ladder”.

Astralporing.1957:

That’s not “fractal rewards”. That’s “high level fractal rewards”. Remember, we were talking about casuals that moved out of dungeons here – and they are unlikely to even have AR for those levels.

High level fractal rewards are better then ever, and even Fractal rewards are better than ever for low level Fractals. It does involve getting the Fractal masteries unlocked, but it’s very easy to make dungeon level money in Fractals now, even from lower level fractals if you do the lower level dailies.

However, higher level fractals now, are as easy as lower level fractals were before.

My guild is as casual as it gets, and we often three-four man fractals that before we didn’t do at all.

Vayne.8563:

… It does involve getting the Fractal masteries unlocked, …

And therein lies the rub: gated by HoT.

It is absurdly impossible for me to attain all of the central Tyria masteries. I’ll never even come close to getting just two tracks done. Legendaries are something I gave up long ago, but I’m not convinced I’ll ever see the top of the fractal masteries.

And, I’m sure there are many others like me.

So, again, the rewards are reduced. In theory, I could get the rewards back up to what they were before HoT, but that just begs the question.

Daddicus.6128:

Vayne.8563:

… It does involve getting the Fractal masteries unlocked, …

And therein lies the rub: gated by HoT.

It is absurdly impossible for me to attain all of the central Tyria masteries. I’ll never even come close to getting just two tracks done. Legendaries are something I gave up long ago, but I’m not convinced I’ll ever see the top of the fractal masteries.

And, I’m sure there are many others like me.

So, again, the rewards are reduced. In theory, I could get the rewards back up to what they were before HoT, but that just begs the question.

You obviously don’t play the game enough if after almost 3 months you’ve failed to get r3 in Fractal Mastery, why are you complaining about rewards for a game you play once a week for an hour?

Coulter.2315:

Daddicus.6128:

Vayne.8563:

… It does involve getting the Fractal masteries unlocked, …

And therein lies the rub: gated by HoT.

It is absurdly impossible for me to attain all of the central Tyria masteries. I’ll never even come close to getting just two tracks done. Legendaries are something I gave up long ago, but I’m not convinced I’ll ever see the top of the fractal masteries.

And, I’m sure there are many others like me.

So, again, the rewards are reduced. In theory, I could get the rewards back up to what they were before HoT, but that just begs the question.

You obviously don’t play the game enough if after almost 3 months you’ve failed to get r3 in Fractal Mastery, why are you complaining about rewards for a game you play once a week for an hour?

For the best reason imaginable… because he paid for it.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Coulter.2315:

Daddicus.6128:

Vayne.8563:

… It does involve getting the Fractal masteries unlocked, …

And therein lies the rub: gated by HoT.

It is absurdly impossible for me to attain all of the central Tyria masteries. I’ll never even come close to getting just two tracks done. Legendaries are something I gave up long ago, but I’m not convinced I’ll ever see the top of the fractal masteries.

And, I’m sure there are many others like me.

So, again, the rewards are reduced. In theory, I could get the rewards back up to what they were before HoT, but that just begs the question.

You obviously don’t play the game enough if after almost 3 months you’ve failed to get r3 in Fractal Mastery, why are you complaining about rewards for a game you play once a week for an hour?

For the best reason imaginable… because he paid for it.

Really? Thats your best reason imaginable? Not; to improve the game, its morally right, its killing granny? He paid for it…

Daddicus.6128:

Vayne.8563:

… It does involve getting the Fractal masteries unlocked, …

And therein lies the rub: gated by HoT.

It is absurdly impossible for me to attain all of the central Tyria masteries. I’ll never even come close to getting just two tracks done. Legendaries are something I gave up long ago, but I’m not convinced I’ll ever see the top of the fractal masteries.

And, I’m sure there are many others like me.

So, again, the rewards are reduced. In theory, I could get the rewards back up to what they were before HoT, but that just begs the question.

First of all, if you’re casual you don’t need to do level 50 plus fractals and nothing else is gated by HoT.

You can’t really have it both ways. I’m too casual to level masteries, but I’m hard core enough to do100 level fractals.

Fractals are plenty profitable even at lower levels.

This is simply a non-argument.

And leveling Tyrian masteries really isn’t that hard…it just takes some time. Grab some buffs, run some events in Orr and you’ll be surprised how fast you can level masteries.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Coulter.2315:

Daddicus.6128:

Vayne.8563:

… It does involve getting the Fractal masteries unlocked, …

And therein lies the rub: gated by HoT.

It is absurdly impossible for me to attain all of the central Tyria masteries. I’ll never even come close to getting just two tracks done. Legendaries are something I gave up long ago, but I’m not convinced I’ll ever see the top of the fractal masteries.

And, I’m sure there are many others like me.

So, again, the rewards are reduced. In theory, I could get the rewards back up to what they were before HoT, but that just begs the question.

You obviously don’t play the game enough if after almost 3 months you’ve failed to get r3 in Fractal Mastery, why are you complaining about rewards for a game you play once a week for an hour?

For the best reason imaginable… because he paid for it.

Actually you can do the fractals without those masteries. So complaining he’s gated from something that he, as a casual, wouldn’t be doing anyway, really isn’t an argument.

He can do fractals without the masteries.

I once liked this game – it’s a pity it turned out so wrong. Difficulty was skewed too high in HoT. I never quit a game because it’s too easy, but there’s a point where I quit a game because it’s too hard and that’s it. Insult me, I don’t care. People who wanted challenge have it now, everyone else you can look away now as GW2 wastes itself into obscurity.

Exit.5213:

I once liked this game – it’s a pity it turned out so wrong. Difficulty was skewed too high in HoT. I never quit a game because it’s too easy, but there’s a point where I quit a game because it’s too hard and that’s it. Insult me, I don’t care. People who wanted challenge have it now, everyone else you can look away now as GW2 wastes itself into obscurity.

It won’t waste into obscurity because it’s too hard for you. And there are people who have left this game because it’s too easy. The question becomes how many people are in each group.

Vayne.8563:

Exit.5213:

I once liked this game – it’s a pity it turned out so wrong. Difficulty was skewed too high in HoT. I never quit a game because it’s too easy, but there’s a point where I quit a game because it’s too hard and that’s it. Insult me, I don’t care. People who wanted challenge have it now, everyone else you can look away now as GW2 wastes itself into obscurity.

It won’t waste into obscurity because it’s too hard for you. And there are people who have left this game because it’s too easy. The question becomes how many people are in each group.

Wait and see. It’s not like ‘you’ will lose profits if ANet made the wrong choice and I already found another MMO.

Exit.5213:

Vayne.8563:

Exit.5213:

I once liked this game – it’s a pity it turned out so wrong. Difficulty was skewed too high in HoT. I never quit a game because it’s too easy, but there’s a point where I quit a game because it’s too hard and that’s it. Insult me, I don’t care. People who wanted challenge have it now, everyone else you can look away now as GW2 wastes itself into obscurity.

It won’t waste into obscurity because it’s too hard for you. And there are people who have left this game because it’s too easy. The question becomes how many people are in each group.

Wait and see. It’s not like ‘you’ will lose profits if ANet made the wrong choice and I already found another MMO.

I will wait and see. HoT really isnt’ that hard. This isn’t raid level difficult content. It’s not just braindead easy content.

But yes, wait and see is the operative word. There is always going to have to be a balance between too easy and too hard in any games. A game gets too easy it loses the top end of the spectrum. A game gets too hard , it loses the bottom end. No matter how much harder or easier it is than it was, someone is going to leave…in this case you.

However, I believe very few people have left by percentage because of the difficulty of hot. Other people may have left for different reasons, such as not enjoy WoW, or the dungeon nerf.

Still the equation is simple. If players in = players out the game won’t suffer.

Vayne.8563:

A game gets too hard , it loses the bottom end. No matter how much harder or easier it is than it was, someone is going to leave…in this case you.

The only big difference is when something is new it might appear much harder than it actually is. For example, even Ascalonian Catacombs story mode used to be considered super hard by many players, now it’s easy mode.

The point is, if it’s hard, players might get better and beat the content once they get the experience, if it’s too easy from the start, then it won’t suddenly become more challenging.

maddoctor.2738:

Vayne.8563:

A game gets too hard , it loses the bottom end. No matter how much harder or easier it is than it was, someone is going to leave…in this case you.

The only big difference is when something is new it might appear much harder than it actually is. For example, even Ascalonian Catacombs story mode used to be considered super hard by many players, now it’s easy mode.

The point is, if it’s hard, players might get better and beat the content once they get the experience, if it’s too easy from the start, then it won’t suddenly become more challenging.

Well yes, I think that’s what happened with HoT. People wandered in with their guard down expecting they could waltz in and play the same way they always did. When they couldn’t, many just gave up quickly. The problem is there are plenty of people, I mean a lot, who do give up quickly. They don’t want to keep plugging away at stuff until they succeed. It’s a different mind set.

Which is why some people play football and some people play catch.

Vayne.8563:

Actually you can do the fractals without those masteries.

Yes, he can. But, as you have already noticed, low level fractal rewards without those masteries are rubbish.

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

Actually you can do the fractals without those masteries.

Yes, he can. But, as you have already noticed, low level fractal rewards without those masteries are rubbish.

But by doing them you get experience which levels Masteries..

maddoctor.2738:

Vayne.8563:

A game gets too hard , it loses the bottom end. No matter how much harder or easier it is than it was, someone is going to leave…in this case you.

The only big difference is when something is new it might appear much harder than it actually is. For example, even Ascalonian Catacombs story mode used to be considered super hard by many players, now it’s easy mode.

The point is, if it’s hard, players might get better and beat the content once they get the experience, if it’s too easy from the start, then it won’t suddenly become more challenging.

AC Story was hard at launch. Sure, players would have adjusted, but it was nerfed about as much as I’ve ever seen content nerfed, so we’ll never know.

Coulter.2315:

You obviously don’t play the game enough if after almost 3 months you’ve failed to get r3 in Fractal Mastery, why are you complaining about rewards for a game you play once a week for an hour?

You are completely wrong. I’ve averaged 5 hours a day in the 3+ years the game has been out. I’m closing in on 19K achievement points. So, I think I know a thing or two about how to play.

What’s stopping me is not skill. It is the mastery points that are in things I’m no longer physically capable of achieving, like the last diving location. There are quite a few I can’t get to any more. Perhaps when I was 30-40 years younger, but the game wasn’t around then.

I can envision 3-5 more points, and then I’m out of the running for any more. I could see maybe getting a couple of the regional points for getting all the achievements. But, since I’ve spent a year trying, and I’ve only attained 3 of those, it doesn’t seem likely.

I have a glimmer of hope that maybe I can squeeze out some more in Fractals, but even my rosiest projections don’t get me close to the top.

FYI NOTE: I already have the main Tyria ones all done. I’m working on the experience for the 2nd fractal one.

Vayne.8563:

And leveling Tyrian masteries really isn’t that hard…it just takes some time. Grab some buffs, run some events in Orr and you’ll be surprised how fast you can level masteries.

You missed my point: I’m not gated by the XP. I’m gated by the Mastery Points. I made the mistake of spending some on Legendary masteries before I realized I would never complete it.

Coulter.2315:

But by doing them you get experience which levels Masteries..

You need two things for masteries. Experience is worthless once you’ve spent all your mastery points.

Sorry, guys, I miscounted: I CAN attain the highest level of Fractals. It’s legendaries that are out of reach (fractals doesn’t have the big one at the end).

Daddicus.6128:

Sorry, guys, I miscounted: I CAN attain the highest level of Fractals. It’s legendaries that are out of reach (fractals doesn’t have the big one at the end).

So just so we’re all clear you can get the Fractal Masteries to produce decent money as you initially wanted, problem solved yay.

Daddicus.6128:

Vayne.8563:

And leveling Tyrian masteries really isn’t that hard…it just takes some time. Grab some buffs, run some events in Orr and you’ll be surprised how fast you can level masteries.

You missed my point: I’m not gated by the XP. I’m gated by the Mastery Points. I made the mistake of spending some on Legendary masteries before I realized I would never complete it.

There are plenty of extra mastery points built into the system. I have every mastery finished and well over 10 points left over. You don’t need everyone. If you’re saying you can’t get any of the ones you have left, I’d say you need a better guild or better friends or better something because it’s really not that hard.

Nor do you have to go to the last Fractal mastery to get the better rewards. You only need to go to the second one.

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

Actually you can do the fractals without those masteries.

Yes, he can. But, as you have already noticed, low level fractal rewards without those masteries are rubbish.

But since you only need to get to second level of mastery to get the better rewards, it’s really not that hard. Particularly because you can get mastery points in the fractals themselves.

Also I don’t believe I ever said the rewards were rubbish. Even before the overhaul I was running Fractals. They were simply less than they had been. They needed a buff, which they got.

They’re okay. Not wonderful, but okay.

Vayne.8563:

I have every mastery finished and well over 10 points left over. You don’t need everyone.

Vayne,
You are actually a fairly rational denizen of the forums, as White Knights go. But, lets be honest. You have 366 tabs! Not just replies, but TABS on this forum.

To you, GW2 is a 24/7 endeavor. Your entire existential identity is tied to playing this game.

Because of this, it’s impossible for you to place yourself into the shoes of people who play the game for 1 or 2 hours a day, after work, when the kids have been put to bed.

You can’t fathom how someone with a life might not enjoy having to spend 30 minutes taxing in people to play events on the HoT maps, or be disgusted playing the same meta-event night, after night, after night, ad nauseum in order to unlock Mastery Points that allow them to talk to a Frog so that they can buy a recipe.

Your persistence as an apologist provides me with a never ending source of amusement. Keep it up!

Edit: With your unquestioning of authority, you would have made a great 11th Century Monk.

Soon.5240:

Vayne.8563:

I have every mastery finished and well over 10 points left over. You don’t need everyone.

Vayne,
You are actually a fairly rational denizen of the forums, as White Knights go. But, lets be honest. You have 366 tabs! Not just replies, but TABS on this forum.

To you, GW2 is a 24/7 endeavor. Your entire existential identity is tied to playing this game.

Because of this, it’s impossible for you to place yourself into the shoes of people who play the game for 1 or 2 hours a day, after work, when the kids have been put to bed.

You can’t fathom how someone with a life might not enjoy having to spend 30 minutes taxing in people to play events on the HoT maps, or be disgusted playing the same meta-event night, after night, after night, ad nauseum in order to unlock Mastery Points that allow them to talk to a Frog so that they can buy a recipe.

Your persistence as an apologist provides me with a never ending source of amusement. Keep it up!

Edit: With your unquestioning of authority, you would have made a great 11th Century Monk.

Ah, the voice of reason has spoken.

I have a lot of tabs because this is what I do to pass time. However, you’re neglecting the fact that I’m in a casual guild with casual people who I play with quite frequently. A lot of what I relate is what they are doing or saying, not what I’m doing or saying.

I don’t expect most people to have 28k achievement points like I do. But then no one else in my guild had that either. However, many people in my guild run fractals and enjoy the rewards, even people with a couple of thousand achievement points.

So you see, I can actually talk about what more relaxed players do because I run a guild full of them.

Soon.5240:

To you, GW2 is a 24/7 endeavor. Your entire existential identity is tied to playing this game.

Because of this, it’s impossible for you to place yourself into the shoes of people who play the game for 1 or 2 hours a day, after work, when the kids have been put to bed.

I’m not Vayne, I’m just some mid-40s person with family, kids, fulltime job, and not a lot of play time. I get to play most days, but just for an hour or two.

I don’t have 10 spare tyrian mastery points, but I do have 3 or 4 spare ones with all pact tyria masteries maxed. I didn’t grind any of this, experience came by itself between playing fractals and map-exploring, and mastery points kind of came by themselves, too. I love playing story and fractals, so the majority of my points come from those areas, while I haven’t gotten a lot of the world boss ones yet, since I don’t enjoy world boss fights most of the time.

I have to say, despite my limited play time I agree with Vayne. Core Tyria mastery points are easy to max out, even for those of us who don’t have a lot of play time, especially if we’re veterans who have played many different facets of this game over the years.

I see a lot of people saying “well you don’t have to get all the masteries, you don’t NEED ascended gear, you don’t HAVE to raid, you don’t NEED legendaries”

Praytell, when you get rid of everything that is time-consuming and boring to do, what’s left? HoT has been a busy work expansion, nothing of substance anywhere.

I want a legendary that is entertaining, not a chore to make. I want gear that’s fun to get, not a grind. I want masteries that don’t require me to do the same kitten over and over and over to max out. I want 100% distilled fun. That’s what GW2 pitched itself to be. No waiting around to have fun.

I miss dungeons, why haven’t they added more of them? I liked epic feeling world bosses, they added one. An entire expansion… they added one. I liked the old connections to GW1 stories and lore, where did that go? Does it seem to anyone else that the philosophies of this game have changed from when they first made it? Does ANYONE else feel bait and switched?

Is one single cohesive philosophy to the game’s development too much to ask for? You play any other MMO, they improve on what they had, they add more of it, and life goes on. GW2, it’s like… a madmans mind. Lets try dungeons! OH WAIT lets try Living story! BETTER IDEA! lets do gliding! Now Jump pannels! now… LETS DO MAP METAS! How about some masteries! yeah that’d be cool! Oh what about this new story!

Why don’t we build upon the old ideas, why don’t we finish the old stories, why don’t we stick to one idea, flesh it out, then once we’re done with that… move on, while still building on what people like. Make what the community wants, not what Anet wants.

Maximillian Greil.1965:

Why don’t we build upon the old ideas, why don’t we finish the old stories, why don’t we stick to one idea, flesh it out, then once we’re done with that… move on, while still building on what people like. Make what the community wants, not what Anet wants.

I think this is the philosophy they are adopting for 2016, they have said they will not be adding new features but expanding on what we have now. The blogpost and Colin interview talked about adding depth to the content.

Fingers crossed.

It’s not as complicated as you make it seem. If you are bored and you think the game is time-consuming and don’t think there is anything left; the question isn’t what’s left, the question is why are you still here.

Obtena.7952:

It’s not as complicated as you make it seem. If you are bored and you think the game is time-consuming and don’t think there is anything left; the question isn’t what’s left, the question is why are you still here.

I’m not. I lurk occasionally, read blog posts, and hope and pray the game I’ve loved and the company I’ve been invested into since day 1 of prophesies will go back to what made them great.

When it does, I want to come back, and I don’t want to miss a minute of a better guildwars if it ever gets here,

Obtena.7952:

It’s not as complicated as you make it seem. If you are bored and you think the game is time-consuming and don’t think there is anything left; the question isn’t what’s left, the question is why are you still here.

Good community attitude you have there. If the going gets boring, the bored should just leave? I for one am hoping they put the reins on adding “new” systems and try to get back to their roots myself.

I may actually start playing more often once I know what their road map entails.

Maximillian Greil.1965:

I see a lot of people saying “well you don’t have to get all the masteries, you don’t NEED ascended gear, you don’t HAVE to raid, you don’t NEED legendaries”

Praytell, when you get rid of everything that is time-consuming and boring to do, what’s left? HoT has been a busy work expansion, nothing of substance anywhere.

This is the most telling post in the thread. If I can’t get this rewards, what is there to play for.

Well, some of us don’t really play for the rewards. The rewards are nice, but we play because we actually enjoy what we’re doing.

I enjoy the hell out of both VB and DS. I play them to have fun. I play them because I enjoy them. I don’t play them to get the meta done. I don’t worry about how long it takes to get something that I’m not going to get anyway.

I log in and I enjoy the beauty of the world. I enjoy finding ways to get around the canopy without coming down to ground level. I enjoy some of the scavenger hunt things they have like the masks in Auric Basic.

I even enjoy slowly pecking away at some of the collections.

You claim there’s no depth because it’s hard to get the rewards. I don’t think that has anything to do with depth.

Vayne.8563:

You claim there’s no depth because it’s hard to get the rewards. I don’t think that has anything to do with depth.

If there were no gating of content behind XP, there would be about 24 to 32 hours of game play in the expansion – assuming that you don’t replay any events or adventures and just play it through once.

This is the lack of depth that I believe he is referring to. The “hardness” (a word he does not use) relates to how much you enjoy replaying the same limited number of events over and over again. He said it’s boring, not hard.

Personally, if the exact same HP and XP system had been distributed over 12 new Maps, structured around the core game maps of exploration, I’d have loved HoT. I don’t like the single-meta maps with their “lather, rinse, repeat” philosophy.

Soon.5240:

Personally, if the exact same HP and XP system had been distributed over 12 new Maps, structured around the core game maps of exploration, I’d have loved HoT. I don’t like the single-meta maps with their “lather, rinse, repeat” philosophy.

To me, this is the main turn-off with HoT. I think the map metas do a pretty good job of presenting a war zone, at least within the limits of what can be done on a limited pop mega server map. However, my MMO play can consist of a half hour here, an hour there, or whatever. Getting a sense that one accomplished something with that amount of play time was eminently doable in core, but not so much in DT/SW, and in HoT it’s very hit or miss — by which I mean mostly miss.

I still don’t know what the heck I’m doing in some of the metas — and by some I mean most. The only thing I’ve got down is defending rally points and gathering supply in VB night cycle — oh, and bombing the one wyvern. I’m not going to complain that I haven’t gotten very far. However, I feel I can post my ambivalence to the content design because I don’t feel that it really offers what I’m looking for. I’d stick with what core offers, but after 3+ years I — like most everyone else — have done everything there ad nauseam and was looking forward to something new. Hot, while new, is not my cup of tea, and it’s largely because of meta event timing, ubiquity and the relative unfriendliness of the maps to casual gallivanting.

You know, when i first played this game 3 years ago,it was so friendly and peopel could just whisper you by themselves just to give you tips for what to do next in your adventures,now,people tend to hide from you just so you dont happen to discover a glitch that they discovered to make gold!!!

Gold is what is driving this game apart,gold and the gem store.

I agree totally to the fact that gold sellers are driven away by the gem to gold exchange system……yeah thats why i get 10000 whispers from gold selling websites every month!

I remember when the crafting system actually meant something like make something new,discover a new recipe by accident and give you the trhill of something different,now all i see is people racing to get Nightfury throwing a ton of material down the mystic forge trying to make it first and make the most gold out of it.

Gold,gold,gold,gold i am sick of gold in this game….

I need gold to make ascended,otherwise i dont get into raids,i need gold to get agony infusions(or grind em,YAY!)or armor in which case i need ascended armor again so this on top of the previous and so on and so forth, AND if i ever decide i would like a legendary weapon for my character……well…..i need tons of gold,but, the content that gives gold is locked behind a gold wall…..so….i think that anet is driving me away slowly?

And to think they said this game was a grindless game! Worst lie in gaming history of mmo games.

Soon.5240:

Vayne.8563:

You claim there’s no depth because it’s hard to get the rewards. I don’t think that has anything to do with depth.

If there were no gating of content behind XP, there would be about 24 to 32 hours of game play in the expansion – assuming that you don’t replay any events or adventures and just play it through once.

This is the lack of depth that I believe he is referring to. The “hardness” (a word he does not use) relates to how much you enjoy replaying the same limited number of events over and over again. He said it’s boring, not hard.

Personally, if the exact same HP and XP system had been distributed over 12 new Maps, structured around the core game maps of exploration, I’d have loved HoT. I don’t like the single-meta maps with their “lather, rinse, repeat” philosophy.

Lack of content isn’t the same as lack of depth though. No one would claim chess isn’t a deep game, but there’s definitely a lack of content.

But there’s plenty of different kinds of fights, here, different mechanics on offer, different play styles that show there’s depth. The problem is if you want to run around with other people and press one you can do it. That’s not really an issue though because I enjoy playing my characters more fully.

Salonikios.3154:

You know, when i first played this game 3 years ago,it was so friendly and peopel could just whisper you by themselves just to give you tips for what to do next in your adventures,now,people tend to hide from you just so you dont happen to discover a glitch that they discovered to make gold!!!

Gold is what is driving this game apart,gold and the gem store.

I agree totally to the fact that gold sellers are driven away by the gem to gold exchange system……yeah thats why i get 10000 whispers from gold selling websites every month!

I remember when the crafting system actually meant something like make something new,discover a new recipe by accident and give you the trhill of something different,now all i see is people racing to get Nightfury throwing a ton of material down the mystic forge trying to make it first and make the most gold out of it.

Gold,gold,gold,gold i am sick of gold in this game….

I need gold to make ascended,otherwise i dont get into raids,i need gold to get agony infusions(or grind em,YAY!)or armor in which case i need ascended armor again so this on top of the previous and so on and so forth, AND if i ever decide i would like a legendary weapon for my character……well…..i need tons of gold,but, the content that gives gold is locked behind a gold wall…..so….i think that anet is driving me away slowly?

And to think they said this game was a grindless game! Worst lie in gaming history of mmo games.

your have made a rod for your own back I’m afraid. You do not need gold for anything – unless you want to take short cuts. The answer is to stop watching what other people are doing and just enjoy the game at your own pace. As for raids, I also need full ascended to enter raids, and i’ve got a fair bit to go yet, but I’m crafting all my own stuff with my own materials and bought when I feel like it, just like I did 3 years ago.

As for Grinding, ‘grinding’ actually means doing something you don’t want to do over and over – so don’t do it.

Tommyknocker.6089:

Obtena.7952:

It’s not as complicated as you make it seem. If you are bored and you think the game is time-consuming and don’t think there is anything left; the question isn’t what’s left, the question is why are you still here.

Good community attitude you have there. If the going gets boring, the bored should just leave? I for one am hoping they put the reins on adding “new” systems and try to get back to their roots myself.

I may actually start playing more often once I know what their road map entails.

This has nothing to do with community attitude … that’s nonsense. Why convince someone they should play if they don’t enjoy the game?