Guild Wars 2

My problem is hooking up with 9 people who have the same schedule as me, with the prospect of spending 20 hours to die repeatedly with them. My problem is not being willing to spend the time recruiting enough people to gain the guild hall, then pestering them to donate to grow it. I have tried joining multiple large guilds, but I end up hiding guild chat because I cannot keep track of the people I’m playing with at the moment.. And in the peace and quite, I forget to turn them back on.

I like meeting people randomly in the game and having an ad hoc adventure, without concern for their build. We have fun in the moment.

The game doesn’t appear to support micro-groups, as much as it used to, other than that we can do some of the guild events now.

It feels like there is a disconnect because, unlike ArenaNET staff (and I love you all for his wonderful game), I don’t spend all my real life time surrounded by 250 other real life guild wars 2 enthusiasts. I can barely keep one or two real life friends playing it for any length of time…

I have even looked for local meet up groups!

Thanks for reading. I will continue to play, and rack up hours… But as it is now I don’t play nearly as much or with as much enthusiam as I used to, which isn’t a trivial change for me.

Commanders and Mentors are now familiar enough with the HoT Meta-events that they rarely fail. And all the old casual-centric developed content has more incentive to be done now than it used to(except dungeons) because of the map rewards, and the difference in rewards from the easier and harder zones is pretty trivial.

People act like its an all or nothing thing. But there is a middle ground, and even though the latest developments cater more to hardcore players than they used to, it still largely casual friendly.

Now we have raids, which are not generally designed for casual players, but are still casual friendly, since there is no gear treadmill, you just have to gear up the one time(and most classes can still do that with just Zerkers) and be set for raids in perpetuity. Even the holy grail of “hardcore” players is designed with some compromise for the casual player.

MrGhosty.4296:

I’m relatively new to these parts and have no intention of trying to brush off anyone’s particular perspective of the game. As a new(ish) player I would simply like to submit my personal experience.

I quite happily consider myself a casual player, but this doesn’t mean I don’t invest a lot of time into the game. When I say casual I mean to say that I enjoy good stories, exciting encounters and the ability to hop in and out of them with ease.

I came to GW2 from leading a guild in Elder Scrolls Online. I was frustrated by the content (or lack thereof) and the stupid restrictions it took to get my guildies together to play through any particular piece of content. None of these problems exists for us in GW2 (barring the obvious level requirements and other basic and expected gates).

With a couple button clicks I can have my people grouped up and we’re fighting a world boss. Then we can opt to go run through one of the end game zones like the Silverwastes or venture into HoT. After that we might knock out a fractal or two and finish up with some quick pvp matches.

These are all experiences I would definitely classify as casual friendly. They don’t require extensive prep time or gear swaps or whatever and for the most part are easy to jump in and out of. That doesn’t mean there aren’t challenges in the game, but when did casual friendly have to mean easily achieved?

What I have loved about GW2 since migrating over is that no matter your predilection there is a path for you to achieve your aims. If you don’t want to grind mats for something, just play the game as usual and save up for it. If don’t want to grind OR spend a lot of gold you can continue to play as you like and eventually you will have what you want/need. These paths in no way require the same exact time to complete, some are faster than others but no matter how you want to play there is a way to achieve your goals.

If all goals were easy, nothing would be worth doing. I feel like Anet has done a very good job of providing meaningful progression no matter how much time you put in. If you only complete the dailies each day you have achieved something. If you only spend time gathering mats to craft ascended materials, again, you have achieved something. These smaller goals tend to dovetail into a greater goal such as crafting ascended gear, finishing up a dungeon path, or getting your next achievement chest that naturally take a longer period of time. For the people who would rather throw gold at the hurdle instead, there are usually options on that front as well.

While I can certainly understand how some might feel this game isn’t casual friendly, in my grumpy, bad mystic forge days I know I have certainly muttered it. I don’t think that to be the case and I would welcome anyone who feels differently to give me a shout in the game and I will happily hear you out and perhaps we can find a way to make the game fun for you again.

My +1 button got mashed too hard and broke.

I need a new keyboard.

MrGhosty.4296:

I’m relatively new to these parts and have no intention of trying to brush off anyone’s particular perspective of the game. As a new(ish) player I would simply like to submit my personal experience.

I quite happily consider myself a casual player, but this doesn’t mean I don’t invest a lot of time into the game. When I say casual I mean to say that I enjoy good stories, exciting encounters and the ability to hop in and out of them with ease.

I came to GW2 from leading a guild in Elder Scrolls Online. I was frustrated by the content (or lack thereof) and the stupid restrictions it took to get my guildies together to play through any particular piece of content. None of these problems exists for us in GW2 (barring the obvious level requirements and other basic and expected gates).

With a couple button clicks I can have my people grouped up and we’re fighting a world boss. Then we can opt to go run through one of the end game zones like the Silverwastes or venture into HoT. After that we might knock out a fractal or two and finish up with some quick pvp matches.

These are all experiences I would definitely classify as casual friendly. They don’t require extensive prep time or gear swaps or whatever and for the most part are easy to jump in and out of. That doesn’t mean there aren’t challenges in the game, but when did casual friendly have to mean easily achieved?

What I have loved about GW2 since migrating over is that no matter your predilection there is a path for you to achieve your aims. If you don’t want to grind mats for something, just play the game as usual and save up for it. If don’t want to grind OR spend a lot of gold you can continue to play as you like and eventually you will have what you want/need. These paths in no way require the same exact time to complete, some are faster than others but no matter how you want to play there is a way to achieve your goals.

If all goals were easy, nothing would be worth doing. I feel like Anet has done a very good job of providing meaningful progression no matter how much time you put in. If you only complete the dailies each day you have achieved something. If you only spend time gathering mats to craft ascended materials, again, you have achieved something. These smaller goals tend to dovetail into a greater goal such as crafting ascended gear, finishing up a dungeon path, or getting your next achievement chest that naturally take a longer period of time. For the people who would rather throw gold at the hurdle instead, there are usually options on that front as well.

While I can certainly understand how some might feel this game isn’t casual friendly, in my grumpy, bad mystic forge days I know I have certainly muttered it. I don’t think that to be the case and I would welcome anyone who feels differently to give me a shout in the game and I will happily hear you out and perhaps we can find a way to make the game fun for you again.

…and then someone come from another game like TESO, where grind is more extreme, and then find gw2 soft, at least in appearance, and give a story going along the way of fanboys opinions…
The fact that there is even worst games that exist doesnt excuse the progression for being a bit less a chore in GW2.
Once you hit 80, its always a long grind to get the maximum stats, while it almost wasnt back in 2012. Even if stats combinaison were restricted, everyone would be able to start at equality, with only skill, build management would matter in wvsw for efficiency, or dungeons (if we except tthat mobs were mostly all predictable and just hp bags, favorising dps gear)
So there will artificially always something to do, repeat for a reward or a stuff that become meta, so there is no way to say one day “finally, I have finished to grind, now I could enjoy the future content in the best gear/skin condition without chasing something beyond”.
You are never free to leave the game without the feeling of leaving something unfinished behind.
And I just cant be agree with it, it should be normal to leave one day a game even if its an mmo, to finish its whole content, switch, test out new experiences; instead of staying because durability have been increased , not with content but with grind and massive timesinks…
And thats the main problem of the game, I really love its universe, its content, but there is almost no content that give fair rewards and then decent progression to end game stuff…
Ascended crafting is not difficult, its just long, boring, uninteresting serie of task (at least I could listen to music, so my brain wont go asleep) and even if you can know switch stats, its still a costly investment that could quick become useless because of meta fluctuations…
Like if those greedy companies would make sure you cant leave, or have something, be fairly rewarded for playing a reasonnable time, because there is a cash shop, shareholders to feed, that need strong returns on investments…

I have made a choice at the beginning, to do the content freely, without chasing some end game chimera, something I would have, thats why I spent some gemms along the way to have definitive skins at the beginning (you are supposed to be a hero after all, not a mercenary with a poorly designed armor all along the way to max level). And I’m in right to di this, it probably didnt hurt anyone…
And it would have been almost perfect without introduction of a extremly costly, end game gear, that favorise to play one character due to the investment instead of trying out freely builds, classes, races, content etc…
What is not true when invested players claim new content designed exclusivly for themselves…

I would be happy if there were at least and normal mod, an easy/discovery mod accessible for everyone but with lesser rewards for the raid, and titles, other unimpacting but prestigious rewards for people able to beat raid content in hard mode.
I’m not necessarily looking for challenge, but new environnments, dialogs, stories etc…not locked begind massive requirments of gears, bifnumber of enthousiastic player etc…

I’m not saying that players like me want everything right now, but I didnt buy this game to work hard, have a secondary job, accomplish a chore, but have a game enjoyable, that doesnt leave rather casual players behind because of stats segregation betweens those able to afford ascended and the other that are told to use only exotic, and act like there were nothing above to look for, just because the system made things not affordable to their playtime.

You can be a real fan of the game like me, that doesnt mean I’m willing to stay forever or playexclusivly Gw2…
What would push you to make a costly stats combinaison axotic stuff, if at all moment, you are free to make a stuff that is almost the same, tempting, rising total of stats at +-10% more…
And GW2 is moving farther and farther from this with expansions like hot.
Expansion where meta are not acessible most of the time (DS), labyrinthic maps with dps check, stats combinaisons that require insane number of tonkens, etc…
Human life is terribly short, and if we want to have a maximum number of experiences like video games, multiplayers included in mmos, then grind, timesinks, repeating content become an ennemy, you can often pass with money if you are rich (or fool) enough; but it often quickly become a nightmare to explore virtual universes in their integrality if not….
its a game after all, we are not tied to the same conditions than real life, progression should be fair as much as its is not in reality, at least to compensate…
Even a beautifull virtual weapon doesnt justify semesters of daily work…time is precious and it is worth more than this.

Thats why I would love to have stats character bound, that are maxed once you hit max level, freely adjustable, and armor, weapon only giving damage, or support eventually rune/sigils, but with no rarity, and having just their skin worth their value.
etc….

I have seen the video of people doing the raid with full exotic gear, they are an organized guild, use specific, longly prepared builds, wich members master there characters extemly well, that normal they suceed despite of lacking stats.
That doesnt make their exploit agenerality for all player, even a fews errors are sufficient to fail with ascended, then thinks what happen woth lesser stats…

I would have tons of other things to say on this, but I better stop there, my english is not sufficient anyway…

Aranvar, I’ll be honest I didn’t rag your whole post, just don’t care to read a wall after work. I just have one small issue with you saying restricting stat combinations would be good. Having different stat combos is what allows build diversity. You don’t have the best tank/healer without nomads, for example. I use trailblazers in a great necro burning tank build. I couldn’t do that without didn’t stat combinations.

HoT problems are more than just people being casuals, or grinds taking too much time.

My simplest example is this:
You get on a random HoT map and decide to click on a mastery/skill point. Your player agency in that moment is personal progression. But do you get a piece of personal progression content? No! You get a group event for 5+ players. GW2’s strength was 1-3 players roaming and HoT has a nasty habit of shutting that down.

That is something not just hurting casuals, that is hurting anybody playing outside of the map zerg. You just cannot unlock your Elite-Specs in the same way you could before. It is not a matter of WHAT you are supposed to do. It is not a matter of HOW MUCH you need to do. It all boils down to the encounters being designed for 5+ players. GW2 has arguably one of the best event scaling and yet it is hamstringing itself.

The amount it takes to get multiple stat combinations for multiple characters and multiple builds in GW2 is one of the game’s biggest weaknesses. In most loot-grinding games, the process of gearing a character for the endgame takes a fraction of the time.

Fourth variety, I need to disagree with you. It is perfectly possible to take down mastery/skill point with 1-3 players. I did it, I saw people streaming doing it and frankly most of these points have generally been nerfed down since some of them are now commute points and elites monsters have become veterans. From what I read, I think you suffer from l2P issue. And you can unlock your elite speec quite easily, look at dulfy, there is a guide that shows you what points you can solo, given that you have “mastered” the majority of hp in core tyria. As for the “multiple stat combinations for multiple characters and multiple builds” that also plain wrong: no content speaking in a casual setup and mindset required you this in core tyria. I have only crafted/looted one ascended set for my Mesmer and I have been doing perfectly fine in the last three years and more generally in running events of hot, Of course I died occasionnally but again I have assassin gear in challenging end-game zone. I think it is working as intended.

Leveling up a character is not a grind, but they added 10x more grind in other areas. Between the time gates and reward tracks and mastery points and tracks and locking items behind specific content to force players into it without other options… This game is not casual at all.

The game has become a mad and frenzied grind to progress and get stuff, and sucks for anyone who wants to play at a casual pace.

Swagger.1459:

Leveling up a character is not a grind, but they added 10x more grind in other areas. Between the time gates and reward tracks and mastery points and tracks and locking items behind specific content to force players into it without other options… This game is not casual at all.

The game has become a mad and frenzied grind to progress and get stuff, and sucks for anyone who wants to play at a casual pace.

Actually of the things you listed, time-gating is an anti-grind mechanism. People who wanted ascended stuff at launch had to build up their mats a bit every day which means you can’t grind it directly. That’s not grind it’s anti grind.

Since a casual player wouldn’t want an ascended weapon the day it was released, it puts them on a more even footing with people who can spent more time.

Having stuff to do isn’t necessarily a bad thing for most casual players.

Vayne.8563:

Actually of the things you listed, time-gating is an anti-grind mechanism. People who wanted ascended stuff at launch had to build up their mats a bit every day which means you can’t grind it directly. That’s not grind it’s anti grind.

Of course you could grind for it. I saw people with ascended weapons on the second day after they were introduced. It’s the casuals that are slowed by timegates the most.

Vayne.8563:

Since a casual player wouldn’t want an ascended weapon the day it was released, it puts them on a more even footing with people who can spent more time.

Nah, it puts them even more behind.

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

Actually of the things you listed, time-gating is an anti-grind mechanism. People who wanted ascended stuff at launch had to build up their mats a bit every day which means you can’t grind it directly. That’s not grind it’s anti grind.

Of course you could grind for it. I saw people with ascended weapons on the second day after they were introduced. It’s the casuals that are slowed by timegates the most.

Vayne.8563:

Since a casual player wouldn’t want an ascended weapon the day it was released, it puts them on a more even footing with people who can spent more time.

Nah, it puts them even more behind.

Nope. Most people wouldn’t pay those prices. You’ll never stop the hardest core people from getting the stuff fast as they possibly can but casuals were definitely not punished by it. The average player couldn’t get it any faster than making one mat a day.

CaptainVanguard.4925:

A long time ago, there was an MMO that advertised itself out there to be “the” casual player mmo.

Eh… coming from someone who:

• Does not play sPvP.
• Plays WvW for 2-3 hours once a month (if even that).
• Has been in the raid once.
• Has not even done all dungeon explorable paths.
• Is lvl43 in FotM

This game is incredibly casual-play friendly, and HoT did very little or nothing to change that. Sorry.

All the new zones are a casual players dream. They’re fairly involved, they show a nice pretend-kind of difficulty where things can kill you but only if you’re solo and there’s absolutely no one around (which is perfect for a MMO as far as lazy everyday play goes, pushes players together for lazy play or rewards you for paying attention during combat, but either is enough), they are so stuffed full of events and things you never run out of something new to rush to, and between the four of them there’s always some meta event coming up if you’re so inclined.

Add to that the masteries as a long term project for character improvement, hero points to go after as players spontaneously band together for them, tons and tons and tons of hidden things to find completely outside of doing combat (plus all the activities), and they’re perfect.

Mind you, I play 2-4 hours every few days, or split up over the days. I really don’t play a lot. It’s fun.

The only loss in regards to casual solo play is that the new guild system won’t work for single player guilds. But you can just join a giant guild and ignore them and only utilize their guild hall, works fine with the rest of us. Or band together with a bunch of friendly players (DUK is still looking! On Aurora Glade EU!) and either play casually with them as they’re online, or don’t and only meet them in the guild hall.
That’s only really a hurdle insofar that you have to chat a bit to join one and occassionally say hi or good morning. Considering this is a MMO game, that ought to be somewhere near #1 or #2 in the checklist of requirements for playing :P

I cannot disagree more. I’m a super casual (super stressful job, children, etc.) player without a ton of time, and I absolutely love things as they are. I love the challenging group content. I can jump on and go find an event and within a minute be in some insane group fight that is not mindless or boring. The content is exciting and fun. It is epic all the time, I love it.

PLEASE DO NOT NERF THE CONTENT!

Vayne.8563:

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

Actually of the things you listed, time-gating is an anti-grind mechanism. People who wanted ascended stuff at launch had to build up their mats a bit every day which means you can’t grind it directly. That’s not grind it’s anti grind.

Of course you could grind for it. I saw people with ascended weapons on the second day after they were introduced. It’s the casuals that are slowed by timegates the most.

Vayne.8563:

Since a casual player wouldn’t want an ascended weapon the day it was released, it puts them on a more even footing with people who can spent more time.

Nah, it puts them even more behind.

Nope. Most people wouldn’t pay those prices.

Yes… those prices were not for casuals, while deep-pocketed veterans and hardcore grinders could shortcut the timegates.

Vayne.8563:

You’ll never stop the hardest core people from getting the stuff fast as they possibly can but casuals were definitely not punished by it. The average player couldn’t get it any faster than making one mat a day.

Sure, because the average player is a casual. The gate only ever stopped the people it was supposed to help.

a goal that takes a long time is not a ‘gate’ for a casual player, its simply a long term goal for those that are not obsessed with having gear on day 1. Those that want gear on day 1 are equally not ‘gated’ from fast tracking that process with time and gold.

vesica tempestas.1563:

a goal that takes a long time is not a ‘gate’ for a casual player, its simply a long term goal for those that are not obsessed with having gear on day 1. Those that want gear on day 1 are equally not ‘gated’ from fast tracking that process with time and gold.

Yes. A “gate” doesn’t hurt a casual because by definition a casual is fine taking their time to work towards something, casually.

All these people complaining about being “casual” players and also wanting the best gear as fast as everyone else has it need a different word. I won’t suggest any, just saying that having things take a little time is not a big deal to someone who actually approaches the game in a casual way. All the complainers here are basically people who have the stress and obsession of a hard core player, but aren’t willing to actually play like a hard core player. Pretty weak imo.

I play this game casually and guess what, I enjoy that it takes some time to work towards some goals, I enjoy it a lot. It gives me a fun little project to work on and gives some structure to my time in game. I don’t stress if I get schooled by someone with better gear or whatever, that’s the whole point of approaching the game from a mellow perspective.

Anet has struck a really good balance. The best possible gear is not that big a difference to matter to anyone who is remotely relaxed about the game (i.e. not hard core), and someone can still easily obtain that gear at a very relaxed pace if they want to.

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

Actually of the things you listed, time-gating is an anti-grind mechanism. People who wanted ascended stuff at launch had to build up their mats a bit every day which means you can’t grind it directly. That’s not grind it’s anti grind.

Of course you could grind for it. I saw people with ascended weapons on the second day after they were introduced. It’s the casuals that are slowed by timegates the most.

Vayne.8563:

Since a casual player wouldn’t want an ascended weapon the day it was released, it puts them on a more even footing with people who can spent more time.

Nah, it puts them even more behind.

Nope. Most people wouldn’t pay those prices.

Yes… those prices were not for casuals, while deep-pocketed veterans and hardcore grinders could shortcut the timegates.

Vayne.8563:

You’ll never stop the hardest core people from getting the stuff fast as they possibly can but casuals were definitely not punished by it. The average player couldn’t get it any faster than making one mat a day.

Sure, because the average player is a casual. The gate only ever stopped the people it was supposed to help.

Actually you’re simplifying this to the extreme. There are plenty of hard core players that felt the need to run out and get ascended armor the next day. And there were plenty who did NOT feel the need. You’re assuming all hard core players have deep pockets, but I assure that that wasn’t the case back then for most PvPers and most WvWer’s who didn’t make that much money in those game formats.

Back then the people in this game who had real money were people who played the trading post (who might not need ascended stuff anyway if that’s their game), and people who farmed the same stuff over and over again. Dungeon speed runners would have wanted it.

The harder core players I know, and yes I know some, didn’t run out and get ascended right away, because it would have depleted their funds completely. You had to pay a premium because of the gating, so most people, not just most casuals, were likely to go and craft up to 500 and start working on their sets, because if you were a WvWer you might need more than one stat combo too.

The fact is, there were many hard core players who weren’t rich back then and I assure you those hard core players didn’t have to grind to get what they needed to make ascended mats day by day…but if it all came out at once, they would have had to grind, if nothing else gold.

Aranvar le Voyageur.7521:

GW2 quite was casual player until ascended stuff came…

I guess I’m a weird kind of casual- I don’t do many dungeons and fractals, did do a lot of WvW pre-HoT, pvp and the like. Didn’t really find it that much trouble to get a few sets of ascended.

But I do hop around on toons a lot and because of that, I don’t feel the instances are all that casual friendly: I have 9 level 80s but I have no desire to get 9 sets of ascended gear or to spend the money to switch the stats around when needed.

For instance, to do fractals, I need agony resistance which pretty much means I’d need to stick with one toon for fractals. While I’m not completely opposed to that, when faced with the choice of building a dedicated fractal toon or hopping around on toons in spvp or wvw, the latter has so far always appealed. And that’s true even though all I need to finish Mawdrey II are a few fractals.

qbalrog.8017:

For instance, to do fractals, I need agony resistance which pretty much means I’d need to stick with one toon for fractals. While I’m not completely opposed to that, when faced with the choice of building a dedicated fractal toon or hopping around on toons in spvp or wvw, the latter has so far always appealed. And that’s true even though all I need to finish Mawdrey II are a few fractals.

I hate fractals for that by the way, the need to stick to one class, one build, just to be able to get deeper into fractals. Whoever at Anet thought up of that idea, great job at creating content that alienates more players than raids ever have.

I play limited time during the week. Do a good amount on the weekends with a baby. Just finished Nevermore in a few months.

If you want to do the hardest content you can’t do it in blues.

If you don’t want to get ascended you don’t have to.

If you don’t want to do HoT you don’t have to.

If you want the best skins you have to put in some time.

The WoW mentality in games now is astounding. Getting exotics in GW2 is incredibly easy even ascended is pretty easy just takes longer.

So someone explain how you are forced to grind for gear to do anything other than raids.

As for masteries, yes its a grind but its very limited grind. Dragon Stand for HoT masteries and SW for Tyrian. There are plenty of groups doing HP/Mastery Point runs.

So people suck it up and play the game to get stuff and stop wanting to hit a lvl 1 mob and get Nevermore.

I believe to have encountered a problem with social behaviour in general that can be very good translated into the raid situation right here.
There are people who despise the “weak” parts of society. They are not so numerous because many people in modern countries realize that if they are solidary now, people will be solidary with them when they are in need of help. But they are there.
I am not entirely sure why this is the case, but from speaking with many formerly successful people when they are in actual need of help, they realize how much suffering is involved into real life poverty and not being useful only after it had happened to themselves.

in contrast to most modern societies, Anet has the power to give everyone the same in the modern world. Now with that in mind, people should be able to make open world content and tolerate the weak who leach the encounter without breaking into the earnings of the individual. The funny part is that this group considers themselves to be superior at gaming, so what is the fuss all about? They are the better player anyway and get what they want.

Sounds reasonable to think everybody must be happy now, right? Obviously not. Some people, despite having got nearly zero feelable negative impact on themselves, are unable to provide something to anyone without a real, tangible gain for themselves. I don´t know if tihs are ego issues or a feeling of being taken advantage off, but obviously it is ingrained so deep that it can´t be combated by a reward unaffected by leechers.

Lets face it: Tequatl for example can and will be completeted if some people just leech it. There is no loss involved for anyone, no matter how much he participated.

Having said that, I am all for letting these people seperate from the rest and give them the money and the fame they so direly need. But not more than that. Don´t make a second class citizenry of non-raider people, that will heavily backfire in my opinion.

I’m a fairly casual player (i.e. haven’t done much in the way of organized Fractals/Raids) and I love the difficulty level in HoT open-world/meta. It has some excitement to it. As to the subject of grind- I don’t mind it much. It gives me a goal that I can progress. Ascended took me a while, but the feeling of accomplishment when i finished was fantastic.

GW2 devs added changes to the game to compete with WoW – grind all day, grind all night. Casuals aren’t allowed.

Git gut. End of discussion. If you don’t comply, go play My Little Pony Farm. Casuals started to destroy the gaming industry for far too long. Ever since mit 2005 as the huge masses of CoD-mass-market-consumer appeared on the screen…

ProtoGunner.4953:

Git gut. End of discussion. If you don’t comply, go play My Little Pony Farm. Casuals started to destroy the gaming industry for far too long. Ever since mit 2005 as the huge masses of CoD-mass-market-consumer appeared on the screen…

Actually (I have no stats to back) I bet there are more casuals than so called “Hard Core” and from a business model point of view I will go for the biggest bang for the buck.

And the “Git Gud” mentality is the problem most folks have with self proclaimed “Hard Core” players. To me this fosters the “I’m in Junior High School or never graduated” persona. Please folks consider others when making comments.

I can play it as is or with adjustments really doesn’t matter to me I like both models, I prefer playing with my Guild and anyone who wants to join our party or asks for help.

I do understand others who prefer to play solo, not everyone wants to be “forced” into teaming up, and before you say MMORPG it does not stand for having to team up or join guilds “Massive Mulitplayer Online Role Playing Game” no where does it say you must team up.

I think they had it right in the original Guild Wars (and no I’m not saying it was better) but if you remember you had the option after completing an area to play it in Hard Mode. I would like to see something modeled along those lines rather than either crazy hard or eye roll simple.

I will step down from my soap box now

If 2 hours is too much, pleasestop watching any movies above that time limit.

You know, thanks to the wonders of modern technology, people can start watching their movies at any time they want and pause them whenever they want.

You might want to look into that, it’s really amazing what’s been accomplished since the 1960’s.

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Git gut. End of discussion. If you don’t comply, go play My Little Pony Farm. Casuals started to destroy the gaming industry for far too long. Ever since mit 2005 as the huge masses of CoD-mass-market-consumer appeared on the screen…

Actually (I have no stats to back) I bet there are more casuals than so called “Hard Core” and from a business model point of view I will go for the biggest bang for the buck.

This is something I’ve never understood. “Hey there are more casuals than hardcore, so let’s ruin the game (any game) to cater to those casuals so we get more sales” instead of, you know, having content for hardcore and casual players at the same time?

Making content that appeals only to some “majority” is a dumb move that ruins games. For example, let’s play the “majority” game.

How many players like Not So Secret jumping puzzle? I’d guess a tiny fraction of the playerbase, so let’s remove it.

How many players like SAB TM? I’d guess a tiny fraction of the playerbase, TM isn’t for everyone, so let’s just remove it.

How many players do Fractal level 100? How many players compete at the pro leagues of PVP? How many players play the new Raids? How many players can actually kill Lupicus in Arah?

In general, how many players enjoy <insert any type of content>? And since you said about a business standpoint, why should a company create a turn based strategy game (let’s say like Civilization) or a great RPG with loads of mechanics/lore/story (let’s say like Pillars of Eternity) and not make a MOBA or a COD clone? Because those attract way more people… why bother with something that has less people interested by default?

If every company was thinking only with their wallets, computer gaming as a whole would be long dead. Should game development be focused on the majority? I’d say no.

Who’s talking about removing anything?

It’s not necessary to focus on the majority, but it makes little sense to alienate them, and certainly not those among them upon whose spending habits they depend, i.e. the ones they already had and stand to lose as costumers.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Who’s talking about removing anything?

It’s not necessary to focus on the majority, but it makes little sense to alienate them, and certainly not those among them upon whose spending habits they depend, i.e. the ones they already had and stand to lose as costumers.

So you alienate the “majority” by adding new things to the game that they can’t do? Same example as above only instead of “removing” everything I should’ve said, they should’ve never added those things in the first place, since the “majority” would cry about them.

You alienate them by adding virtually nothing they want. No one worth listening to will begrudge anyone any content if they feel they’ve gotten their own money’s worth.

Manasa Devi.7958:

You alienate them by adding virtually nothing they want. No one worth listening to will begrudge anyone any content if they feel they’ve gotten their own money’s worth.

Heh the anti-raid threads (and this one) say otherwise. it’s not a complaint “you didn’t give me what I want” but rather “you gave others what they want and I don’t like it”. It’s the same “theme” on all these threads. Disliking what others like.

I’m sure with most of those people, the “you didn’t give me what I want” remains unspoken or it isn’t expressed explicitly.

I’m pretty sure that a whole lot of those people wouldn’t be complaining on the forums at all if HoT had given them significant amounts of content to be excited about.

That’s what the currently happy people like to counter dissenting opinions with: “all the happy people are in the game and not complaining on the forum.”

Manasa Devi.7958:

I’m sure with most of those people, the “you didn’t give me what I want” remains unspoken or it isn’t expressed explicitly.

I’m pretty sure that a whole lot of those people wouldn’t be complaining on the forums at all if HoT had given them significant amounts of content to be excited about.

That’s what the currently happy people like to counter dissenting opinions with: “all the happy people are in the game and not complaining on the forum.”

I think Manasa is right. I like most of the hot content, got a couple of hundred hours and I’m content. People who don’t like what’s on offer are annoyed when even more comes out that’s on offer. Anet overestimated the hard-core ness of the playerbase I think.

maddoctor.2738:

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Git gut. End of discussion. If you don’t comply, go play My Little Pony Farm. Casuals started to destroy the gaming industry for far too long. Ever since mit 2005 as the huge masses of CoD-mass-market-consumer appeared on the screen…

Actually (I have no stats to back) I bet there are more casuals than so called “Hard Core” and from a business model point of view I will go for the biggest bang for the buck.

This is something I’ve never understood. “Hey there are more casuals than hardcore, so let’s ruin the game (any game) to cater to those casuals so we get more sales” instead of, you know, having content for hardcore and casual players at the same time?

Making content that appeals only to some “majority” is a dumb move that ruins games. For example, let’s play the “majority” game.

How many players like Not So Secret jumping puzzle? I’d guess a tiny fraction of the playerbase, so let’s remove it.

How many players like SAB TM? I’d guess a tiny fraction of the playerbase, TM isn’t for everyone, so let’s just remove it.

How many players do Fractal level 100? How many players compete at the pro leagues of PVP? How many players play the new Raids? How many players can actually kill Lupicus in Arah?

In general, how many players enjoy <insert any type of content>? And since you said about a business standpoint, why should a company create a turn based strategy game (let’s say like Civilization) or a great RPG with loads of mechanics/lore/story (let’s say like Pillars of Eternity) and not make a MOBA or a COD clone? Because those attract way more people… why bother with something that has less people interested by default?

If every company was thinking only with their wallets, computer gaming as a whole would be long dead. Should game development be focused on the majority? I’d say no.

Obviously reading past one sentence is not a strong point for you. Clip what you want to fit your agenda instead of reading the entire statement….

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

maddoctor.2738:

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Git gut. End of discussion. If you don’t comply, go play My Little Pony Farm. Casuals started to destroy the gaming industry for far too long. Ever since mit 2005 as the huge masses of CoD-mass-market-consumer appeared on the screen…

Actually (I have no stats to back) I bet there are more casuals than so called “Hard Core” and from a business model point of view I will go for the biggest bang for the buck.

This is something I’ve never understood. “Hey there are more casuals than hardcore, so let’s ruin the game (any game) to cater to those casuals so we get more sales” instead of, you know, having content for hardcore and casual players at the same time?

Making content that appeals only to some “majority” is a dumb move that ruins games. For example, let’s play the “majority” game.

How many players like Not So Secret jumping puzzle? I’d guess a tiny fraction of the playerbase, so let’s remove it.

How many players like SAB TM? I’d guess a tiny fraction of the playerbase, TM isn’t for everyone, so let’s just remove it.

How many players do Fractal level 100? How many players compete at the pro leagues of PVP? How many players play the new Raids? How many players can actually kill Lupicus in Arah?

In general, how many players enjoy <insert any type of content>? And since you said about a business standpoint, why should a company create a turn based strategy game (let’s say like Civilization) or a great RPG with loads of mechanics/lore/story (let’s say like Pillars of Eternity) and not make a MOBA or a COD clone? Because those attract way more people… why bother with something that has less people interested by default?

If every company was thinking only with their wallets, computer gaming as a whole would be long dead. Should game development be focused on the majority? I’d say no.

Obviously reading past one sentence is not a strong point for you. Clip what you want to fit your agenda instead of reading the entire statement….

The rest of your post was irrelevant to the casual vs hardcore you mentioned in the first sentence. I addressed your comment about the “business model point of view I will go for the biggest bang for the buck.” which, as I explained, doesn’t have to be true.

maddoctor.2738:

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

maddoctor.2738:

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Git gut. End of discussion. If you don’t comply, go play My Little Pony Farm. Casuals started to destroy the gaming industry for far too long. Ever since mit 2005 as the huge masses of CoD-mass-market-consumer appeared on the screen…

Actually (I have no stats to back) I bet there are more casuals than so called “Hard Core” and from a business model point of view I will go for the biggest bang for the buck.

This is something I’ve never understood. “Hey there are more casuals than hardcore, so let’s ruin the game (any game) to cater to those casuals so we get more sales” instead of, you know, having content for hardcore and casual players at the same time?

Making content that appeals only to some “majority” is a dumb move that ruins games. For example, let’s play the “majority” game.

How many players like Not So Secret jumping puzzle? I’d guess a tiny fraction of the playerbase, so let’s remove it.

How many players like SAB TM? I’d guess a tiny fraction of the playerbase, TM isn’t for everyone, so let’s just remove it.

How many players do Fractal level 100? How many players compete at the pro leagues of PVP? How many players play the new Raids? How many players can actually kill Lupicus in Arah?

In general, how many players enjoy <insert any type of content>? And since you said about a business standpoint, why should a company create a turn based strategy game (let’s say like Civilization) or a great RPG with loads of mechanics/lore/story (let’s say like Pillars of Eternity) and not make a MOBA or a COD clone? Because those attract way more people… why bother with something that has less people interested by default?

If every company was thinking only with their wallets, computer gaming as a whole would be long dead. Should game development be focused on the majority? I’d say no.

Obviously reading past one sentence is not a strong point for you. Clip what you want to fit your agenda instead of reading the entire statement….

The rest of your post was irrelevant to the casual vs hardcore you mentioned in the first sentence. I addressed your comment about the “business model point of view I will go for the biggest bang for the buck.” which, as I explained, doesn’t have to be true.

Again pick and choose and from a business standpoint you are going to pick your highest revenue stream. You may not like it but if you must choose a segment all business will choose the one with the highest payout thus most profit.

If they choose to go with the lowest revenue stream odds are they will not please their shareholders thus pulling revenue from their base.

Very few companies in general can please everyone so they will pick the majority.

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

maddoctor.2738:

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

maddoctor.2738:

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Git gut. End of discussion. If you don’t comply, go play My Little Pony Farm. Casuals started to destroy the gaming industry for far too long. Ever since mit 2005 as the huge masses of CoD-mass-market-consumer appeared on the screen…

Actually (I have no stats to back) I bet there are more casuals than so called “Hard Core” and from a business model point of view I will go for the biggest bang for the buck.

This is something I’ve never understood. “Hey there are more casuals than hardcore, so let’s ruin the game (any game) to cater to those casuals so we get more sales” instead of, you know, having content for hardcore and casual players at the same time?

Making content that appeals only to some “majority” is a dumb move that ruins games. For example, let’s play the “majority” game.

How many players like Not So Secret jumping puzzle? I’d guess a tiny fraction of the playerbase, so let’s remove it.

How many players like SAB TM? I’d guess a tiny fraction of the playerbase, TM isn’t for everyone, so let’s just remove it.

How many players do Fractal level 100? How many players compete at the pro leagues of PVP? How many players play the new Raids? How many players can actually kill Lupicus in Arah?

In general, how many players enjoy <insert any type of content>? And since you said about a business standpoint, why should a company create a turn based strategy game (let’s say like Civilization) or a great RPG with loads of mechanics/lore/story (let’s say like Pillars of Eternity) and not make a MOBA or a COD clone? Because those attract way more people… why bother with something that has less people interested by default?

If every company was thinking only with their wallets, computer gaming as a whole would be long dead. Should game development be focused on the majority? I’d say no.

Obviously reading past one sentence is not a strong point for you. Clip what you want to fit your agenda instead of reading the entire statement….

The rest of your post was irrelevant to the casual vs hardcore you mentioned in the first sentence. I addressed your comment about the “business model point of view I will go for the biggest bang for the buck.” which, as I explained, doesn’t have to be true.

Again pick and choose and from a business standpoint you are going to pick your highest revenue stream. You may not like it but if you must choose a segment all business will choose the one with the highest payout thus most profit.

If they choose to go with the lowest revenue stream odds are they will not please their shareholders thus pulling revenue from their base.

Very few companies in general can please everyone so they will pick the majority.

That’s false and I already said why. We would only have MOBAs and COD clones if that was the case. Pleasing everyone is impossible, but pleasing as many as possible isn’t so hard, that’s why they released 3 versions of SAB for example, that’s why they release jumping puzzles which are impossible for the average casual player (Their so called “majority”).

Do you believe it’s a mistake that they are releasing that content that is not for the average casual player? I say it’s not, I say it’s the best thing they could do, to provide something for everyone. The alternative, to release only content that is for the average casual player is too scary to even consider. We would only have SW-like maps for endless chest farms

maddoctor.2738:

I say it’s the best thing they could do, to provide something for everyone.

So why didn’t they do that with HoT?

And why are they still not doing it, 5 months after?

Will they be doing it in April?

Manasa Devi.7958:

maddoctor.2738:

I say it’s the best thing they could do, to provide something for everyone.

So why didn’t they do that with HoT?

And why are they still not doing it, 5 months after?

Will they be doing it in April?

They didn’t provide something for everyone with HoT????

Are you saying they did????

maddoctor.2738:

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

maddoctor.2738:

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

maddoctor.2738:

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Git gut. End of discussion. If you don’t comply, go play My Little Pony Farm. Casuals started to destroy the gaming industry for far too long. Ever since mit 2005 as the huge masses of CoD-mass-market-consumer appeared on the screen…

Actually (I have no stats to back) I bet there are more casuals than so called “Hard Core” and from a business model point of view I will go for the biggest bang for the buck.

This is something I’ve never understood. “Hey there are more casuals than hardcore, so let’s ruin the game (any game) to cater to those casuals so we get more sales” instead of, you know, having content for hardcore and casual players at the same time?

Making content that appeals only to some “majority” is a dumb move that ruins games. For example, let’s play the “majority” game.

How many players like Not So Secret jumping puzzle? I’d guess a tiny fraction of the playerbase, so let’s remove it.

How many players like SAB TM? I’d guess a tiny fraction of the playerbase, TM isn’t for everyone, so let’s just remove it.

How many players do Fractal level 100? How many players compete at the pro leagues of PVP? How many players play the new Raids? How many players can actually kill Lupicus in Arah?

In general, how many players enjoy <insert any type of content>? And since you said about a business standpoint, why should a company create a turn based strategy game (let’s say like Civilization) or a great RPG with loads of mechanics/lore/story (let’s say like Pillars of Eternity) and not make a MOBA or a COD clone? Because those attract way more people… why bother with something that has less people interested by default?

If every company was thinking only with their wallets, computer gaming as a whole would be long dead. Should game development be focused on the majority? I’d say no.

Obviously reading past one sentence is not a strong point for you. Clip what you want to fit your agenda instead of reading the entire statement….

The rest of your post was irrelevant to the casual vs hardcore you mentioned in the first sentence. I addressed your comment about the “business model point of view I will go for the biggest bang for the buck.” which, as I explained, doesn’t have to be true.

Again pick and choose and from a business standpoint you are going to pick your highest revenue stream. You may not like it but if you must choose a segment all business will choose the one with the highest payout thus most profit.

If they choose to go with the lowest revenue stream odds are they will not please their shareholders thus pulling revenue from their base.

Very few companies in general can please everyone so they will pick the majority.

That’s false and I already said why. We would only have MOBAs and COD clones if that was the case. Pleasing everyone is impossible, but pleasing as many as possible isn’t so hard, that’s why they released 3 versions of SAB for example, that’s why they release jumping puzzles which are impossible for the average casual player (Their so called “majority”).

Do you believe it’s a mistake that they are releasing that content that is not for the average casual player? I say it’s not, I say it’s the best thing they could do, to provide something for everyone. The alternative, to release only content that is for the average casual player is too scary to even consider. We would only have SW-like maps for endless chest farms

My Lord do you not understand English? No one said anything about content I didn’t even pick a side I said they will go for what is the most profitable, if you can’t understand that I obviously can’t help you.

Grow up please or don’t make comments to my post if comprehension is that difficult.

And to answer your next question “No I do not want fries with my shake”….

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

My Lord do you not understand English? No one said anything about content I didn’t even pick a side I said they will go for what is the most profitable, if you can’t understand that I obviously can’t help you.

According to some casual players (and this entire thread) they didn’t pick that “most profitable” side and instead went for the little minority We’ll see.

Are you saying they did????

They did.

maddoctor.2738:

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

My Lord do you not understand English? No one said anything about content I didn’t even pick a side I said they will go for what is the most profitable, if you can’t understand that I obviously can’t help you.

According to some casual players (and this entire thread) they didn’t pick that “most profitable” side and instead went for the little minority We’ll see.

Are you saying they did????

They did.

And I disagree with you. If for no other reason than you being obnoxious lol….

The jury is still out until after the April Patch.

Be good Mad

I personally feel that GW2 is more casual friendly then it was, but there are some game types that are more so than others. That isn’t a bad thing.

My only real issue right now with GW2 is the mega server issues with area disconnects and the taxi and dump behavior that this system promotes. The LFG tool is so woefully designed that it can’t keep up with all the new game areas added.

Fix the LFG tool and do something about the mega servers and disconnects and I’d say that GW2 is perfectly casual friendly.

Manasa Devi.7958:

You know, thanks to the wonders of modern technology, people can start watching their movies at any time they want and pause them whenever they want.

You might want to look into that, it’s really amazing what’s been accomplished since the 1960’s.

Since the 1960s people have gotten increasingly more free time to do more things with their lives. You might want to look into that.

While you can indeed start and stop a movie, I wonder how many people actually do that. People often take time to go watch a movie with friends, hang out with friends for hours hang out with family, etc. loads of people binge watch TV series on netflix. No time is a poormans excuse for “I rather do something else with my time” and then say GW2 is not for casuals anymore. It’s just that people don’t want to do GW2 over those other things.

To say you don’t have 2 hours in a week or two weeks time anywhere, then you mismanaged your wallet. You obviously shouldn’t be investing in a game that is more for people who play a little bit longer than just a small hour in a week, or at least not when you expect to see the whole game. We’re not talking about Farmville here where you login play a few minutes and get everything the whole game has to offer. This is an MMO, people tend to spend more time on it. Hell have you ever played a boardgame that you stopped midway through just because you had to “live your life”.

Plus it’s not even that HoT doesn’t have anything to offer for a casual player. Maybe it’s just not as clear set a goal when you do so (hence april update). You can easily follow an event chain, do heropoints or otherwise. There’s tons of achievements that are guiding your exploration. It’s just not as obvious as it can be. No dailies on top of that makes some players confused and unguided (sometimes I also don’t know what to do in HoT, but then I just enter a map and find stuff to do quite easily)

It’s not badly designed, it’s just more designed for 2 hour play sessions and for those who know where to find content in Guild Wars 2 at this point. Although the 2 hours window is only the meta bosses, which are actually respawning faster than the world bosses. Even then, they spawn at different times during those 2 hours so that you can join in at any time and you always have one of those bosses that’s about to be up.

Regardless of all that, the April update is supposed to change that anyway, possibly making short play sessions just a little more valuable, so the casual players are also happy when they log in and do the smaller stuff in their limited time.

maddoctor.2738:

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Git gut. End of discussion. If you don’t comply, go play My Little Pony Farm. Casuals started to destroy the gaming industry for far too long. Ever since mit 2005 as the huge masses of CoD-mass-market-consumer appeared on the screen…

Actually (I have no stats to back) I bet there are more casuals than so called “Hard Core” and from a business model point of view I will go for the biggest bang for the buck.

This is something I’ve never understood. “Hey there are more casuals than hardcore, so let’s ruin the game (any game) to cater to those casuals so we get more sales” instead of, you know, having content for hardcore and casual players at the same time?

Because it has been proven time and time again to not really work. It’s not about supplying different people with different content. It’s about hardcores wanting content that will let them “put the casuals in their place”. The hardcores want the content that will let them feel better than others. In consequence, it means that others have to feel worse for not doing that content (or the hardcores are not satisfied). Of course, as you can easily guess, if they do feel worse, they will be disappointed.
I don’t know what is surprising here – it’s exactly what hardcores want after all.

maddoctor.2738:

And since you said about a business standpoint, why should a company create a turn based strategy game (let’s say like Civilization) or a great RPG with loads of mechanics/lore/story (let’s say like Pillars of Eternity) and not make a MOBA or a COD clone?

You do realize, that’s exactly what you want to happen? Putting a MOBA or CoD into a Civ-style game (or vice versa) in order to satisfy everyone?

maddoctor.2738:

Because those attract way more people… why bother with something that has less people interested by default?

Because having a niche is often a good business too, if the alternative is losing a fight for wider audience with those that do it better. Sid Meyer’s name will not bring people to a MOBA or FPS, but Civ fans are really likely to buy something new from him. Now, if he decided to make a Civ game where you can go the standard 4x route, or go FPS and stalk your opponents in the field, killing them with headshots, i’m pretty sure such a game would be far less popular.
I’m not sure why do you think in GW2 it would work differently somehow.

Astralporing.1957:

It’s about hardcores wanting content that will let them “put the casuals in their place”.

This is called a victim complex, it is causing you not to think rationally and so your thoughts should not be trusted.

Coulter.2315:

Astralporing.1957:

It’s about hardcores wanting content that will let them “put the casuals in their place”.

This is called a victim complex, it is causing you not to think rationally and so your thoughts should not be trusted.

I think it is more than reasonable to assume that sentences like
“Achievement for the people that got guud”
“Content that is hard to complete should stay as exclusive as possible”
“Why should every scrub get the same as I do, who work hard for everything?”
Are not only victory justice casuals admittedly swamped hardcore players with too, but also a clear sign that people are looking to show their superiority beside their skill. Please don´t tell me that nobody said stuff like that, you can read it everyday in tihs forum with a different wording.

In the fitting section, guilds have posted that they already killed the second raid wing. When the frirst raid wing was introduced, a rather prominent guild, at least that was my impression from the posts the got, killed the raid very fast. I personally can´t even remember the name of said guild right now, so both fame and skill are very fleeting in GW2 until a hall of fame is introduced.