Guild Wars 2

I will just leave that video here. It pretty much says everything about HoT and why it is a huge failure, obviously not only for me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gItzcaBIOKk

What is your definition or criteria for “failure”?

It is not fun. A lot of people hate it like me. It does not give the same feeling as Core Tyria. A greater challenge they said. Better rewards they said. All I get is the same junk. I don’t have any incentive to go there. I am better off farming Silverwastes. It is more fun. And all the timer madness is broken and casual unfriendly!

Archdevil.1748:

It is not fun. A lot of people hate it like me. It does not give the same feeling as Core Tyria. A greater challenge they said. Better rewards they said. All I get is the same junk. I don’t have any incentive to go there. I am better off farming Silverwastes. It is more fun. And all the timer madness is broken and casual unfriendly!

Farming chests is fun? Pls.

The complaints I have seen are often identical to the hate given to core tyria, season 1 and season 2 over the last 3 years, they’re just re-directed at the expac.

I’m not saying your opinion of it being a failure is invalid, I’m just not understanding your criteria. It did provide greater challenge – better ai, harder mobs, group events, raids – all specifically asked for by the community.

Better rewards is more tricky. The rng is still a bit of a plague, but improved collections, raid exclusives, precursor crafting, new mats which sell strongly on the tp, improved map rewards, all point to an improved direction. Not perhaps where many want, but not necessarily a huge failure either.

If you don’t find it fun, well that’s a subjective thing. Not sure I can say anything to the contrary to make you think otherwise – you are entitled not to enjoy it of course. I happen to find it massively good fun in most areas important to me personally.

What timers are broken by the way? I agree the DS mechanic is a bit silly, but what else?

Archdevil.1748:

It is not fun. A lot of people hate it like me. It does not give the same feeling as Core Tyria. A greater challenge they said. Better rewards they said. All I get is the same junk. I don’t have any incentive to go there. I am better off farming Silverwastes. It is more fun. And all the timer madness is broken and casual unfriendly!

Not fun? For you? It is definitely fun for me and for everyone I know that has it and is playing it. Do not generalize and try to speak for everyone because you do not.
Only ANet has the numbers on how many are playing and in what areas. Only ANet knows how many copies of HoT they sold and how many are playing. Do not talk of things that you do not know anything about.

Randulf.7614:

The complaints I have seen are often identical to the hate given to core tyria, season 1 and season 2 over the last 3 years, they’re just re-directed at the expac.

I’m not saying your opinion of it being a failure is invalid, I’m just not understanding your criteria. It did provide greater challenge – better ai, harder mobs, group events, raids – all specifically asked for by the community.

Better rewards is more tricky. The rng is still a bit of a plague, but improved collections, raid exclusives, precursor crafting, new mats which sell strongly on the tp, improved map rewards, all point to an improved direction. Not perhaps where many want, but not necessarily a huge failure either.

If you don’t find it fun, well that’s a subjective thing. Not sure I can say anything to the contrary to make you think otherwise – you are entitled not to enjoy it of course. I happen to find it massively good fun in most areas important to me personally.

What timers are broken by the way? I agree the DS mechanic is a bit silly, but what else?

All the timers. I am not against timers like world bosses, but map events should be player driven like in Silverwastes. If the map is organised you get to Vinewrath pretty quickly. You don’t have to wait an hour or more for the cycles.

I can see that point of view, but their idea was to move the events in semi-real time and keep it going as a “living map”. In that respect it works. It’s an idea which is divisive. Some players absolutely love the idea and some people don’t, but it has achieved their design goal for this expac. People wanted less static maps so they came up with this as a solution. One which may or may not stick.

Archdevil.1748:

Randulf.7614:

The complaints I have seen are often identical to the hate given to core tyria, season 1 and season 2 over the last 3 years, they’re just re-directed at the expac.

I’m not saying your opinion of it being a failure is invalid, I’m just not understanding your criteria. It did provide greater challenge – better ai, harder mobs, group events, raids – all specifically asked for by the community.

Better rewards is more tricky. The rng is still a bit of a plague, but improved collections, raid exclusives, precursor crafting, new mats which sell strongly on the tp, improved map rewards, all point to an improved direction. Not perhaps where many want, but not necessarily a huge failure either.

If you don’t find it fun, well that’s a subjective thing. Not sure I can say anything to the contrary to make you think otherwise – you are entitled not to enjoy it of course. I happen to find it massively good fun in most areas important to me personally.

What timers are broken by the way? I agree the DS mechanic is a bit silly, but what else?

All the timers. I am not against timers like world bosses, but map events should be player driven like in Silverwastes. If the map is organised you get to Vinewrath pretty quickly. You don’t have to wait an hour or more for the cycles.

Maybe they didn’t want players just staying on one map doing the event over and over and over again like they do in Silverwastes.

But they didn’t want to turn the maps into a once a day and then done thing like the core maps’ world bosses.

So they tried putting the events on timers with the events far enough away in time that they hoped most players would get bored and do other events on other maps during the wait.

Not saying that the plan was perfectly thought out with how the meta works for the events, but that may have been their plan. To get players to not stay on one map for their entire playtime.

I haven’t made it past the initial HoT map yet so I can’t speak from anything but hearsay. And I’ve heard a number of those events require an organized map to even have a chance at success at this point still.

As someone that strongly dislikes a lot of HoT, I’m not sure I can call it a failure. “Seriously flawed” would be a better way to put it, I think.

The two biggest problems, honestly, are that ANet seems hellbent on NOT learning from past mistakes, and that they don’t communicate with the players very well at all.

PAST MISTAKES
HoT seems to be full of design choices that ANet should have already known better than to do, due to past experiences. TT and the Invasion of Lion’s Arch showed them that they can run into trouble if they give players non-event reasons to gather in the area of a complex or hard event. Arah Story showed them that people don’t want to group or face roadblocks while doing the actual personal/living story. The open world events in Season 2 showed the problem with linking those to the story. Fractal Leaderboards (do I really need to explain this one?) The early days of TT and Tequatil showed the need for a way to get groups onto the same map for events, and how the Megaserver goes against that.

POOR COMMUNICATION
This one goes in both directions, with how they talk to us and how they listen to us. How they talk to us is why players were blindsided at the last minute by the 400 HP cost of the Elite Specs. How they listen is responsible for them not realizing how bad of an idea that was for a lot of people, who expected to gain/earn the spec and use it in the new areas. That’s not the only communication failure, just one of the most obvious.

Now, I know some people love HoT, and they ask if it was really flawed or if it’s just the other players that are the problem. To that, I can only say that if enough of the other players are complaining and not joining in on HoT stuff, then those that DO like it will sooner or later find they have a new problem. Players that dislike this expansion are less likely to support the game. Players that lose track of the personal/living story due to difficulty or roadblocks are less likely to care about the story in the future, and less likely to support the game. Players that don’t care about “grinding” rewards and currency will simply not do events even if they’re in the area. In short, the game as a whole is going to take a hit, both in playability and financial support.

Archdevil.1748:

I will just leave that video here. It pretty much says everything about HoT and why it is a huge failure, obviously not only for me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gItzcaBIOKk

Not to diminishing the opinions of people that dislike HoT but it’s just that, an opinion and does not definitely prove or allow anyone to make absolute statements like “Oh see, HoT is a failure because people say so”. For some, it’s not a huge failure.

The post above mine is an excellent example of complaining done right.

or there is the bunch of people who like me were bored to tears with old Tyria styles of play, and the only reason I am still playing this game is because of HoT. if HoT had not added the type of content it did then I would have completely left the game as there is no need to be running around 25+ maps that were designed for under lvl 80
. before HoT there were 4 maps for lvl 80s, great endgame lol.

Archdevil.1748:

I will just leave that video here. It pretty much says everything about HoT and why it is a huge failure, obviously not only for me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gItzcaBIOKk

YOu honestly expect people to sit through over an hour of some northern English bloke whining? I literally stopped the video after he said " I won’t be making any constructive criticism"

lol

Archdevil.1748:

Randulf.7614:

The complaints I have seen are often identical to the hate given to core tyria, season 1 and season 2 over the last 3 years, they’re just re-directed at the expac.

I’m not saying your opinion of it being a failure is invalid, I’m just not understanding your criteria. It did provide greater challenge – better ai, harder mobs, group events, raids – all specifically asked for by the community.

Better rewards is more tricky. The rng is still a bit of a plague, but improved collections, raid exclusives, precursor crafting, new mats which sell strongly on the tp, improved map rewards, all point to an improved direction. Not perhaps where many want, but not necessarily a huge failure either.

If you don’t find it fun, well that’s a subjective thing. Not sure I can say anything to the contrary to make you think otherwise – you are entitled not to enjoy it of course. I happen to find it massively good fun in most areas important to me personally.

What timers are broken by the way? I agree the DS mechanic is a bit silly, but what else?

All the timers. I am not against timers like world bosses, but map events should be player driven like in Silverwastes. If the map is organised you get to Vinewrath pretty quickly. You don’t have to wait an hour or more for the cycles.

I think this sounds a reasonable and good change.

I bet if we took a toll to see if HoT failed there are less fan boys than the people that actually know it failed. Which means it failed basically! Now you guys do the math and figure out how many free to play people it takes to keep 1 server running then tell me that the fan boys alone can keep the servers going. Fewer players equals less money equals more server merges and eventually a game of all fan boys saying nothings wrong. Five years later the fan boys are dancing in Lions Arch with barely anyone else playing but they look good LOL. Go to GW1 the fan boys are still dancing in the towns in that game LMAO.

i play from release but now i start hate this game wvw- complet dead still no rework pvp- no balance so you meet there only 3-4 class what play stupidly op builds pve- hot maps suck badly its only one big grindfest raid-from raid release i try kill gorseval every almost every day but never kill him beacause find 9 exp people what dont play like —-———— is harder that raid and reward from boss?? lol after all vg kills never got better that 50-60s exo gear this is biggest problem of gw2 bosses and events what is easy and faster reward you way more that things what is harder and where you spend a lot of more time. LFG still dont have raid section Dev complete abadon this good game only new thing what we get is same gemshop —-- items.

Torque.2948:

I bet if we took a toll to see if HoT failed there are less fan boys than the people that actually know it failed. Which means it failed basically!

The problem with this is no matter how YOU got the information it would be wrong. Why? Because you are not seeing what ANet is seeing about who is playing where and how many are playing at any one time. No matter what you or I believe it would never be what ANet is seeing ………… and they are not discussing numbers, they never have in over 10 years.

I don’t think HoT failed, nor is it a rousing success. My main problem is that they put all their eggs in one basket. All the maps follow a similar structure. That’s great if you love it, not great if you don’t. I would have liked to see more of a mixture of meta/non-meta maps. We may get some in the future (please, please) so I’m not writing off HoT just yet. My reception is best described as luke-warm with a hint of optimism.

PyrateSilly.4710:

Torque.2948:

I bet if we took a toll to see if HoT failed there are less fan boys than the people that actually know it failed. Which means it failed basically!

The problem with this is no matter how YOU got the information it would be wrong. Why? Because you are not seeing what ANet is seeing about who is playing where and how many are playing at any one time. No matter what you or I believe it would never be what ANet is seeing ………… and they are not discussing numbers, they never have in over 10 years.

What they have been doing is trying to push a square peg in a round hole. Several MMO’s have already made the mistake of leaving their playerbase out of the loop which led not only to an epic failure but ones that are still talked about to this day which has hurt any effort to overcome the stigma that they created by doing so.

The industry has an ego problem in general, and their super secret target groups giving feedback needs to catch up on their meds. Then stick to whatever it is that they “really understand” which has proven to not be MMO changes that players will appreciate, make profits, and in turn make happy shareholders for the company to date.

Success is easy when you broaden the scope of your hearing to more than a choice few.

I’m listening to the video now. So far? I agree with every point he’s made.

Archdevil.1748:

I will just leave that video here. It pretty much says everything about HoT and why it is a huge failure, obviously not only for me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gItzcaBIOKk

I don’t consider it a failure.

I am enjoying HoT a ton i like that i have to pay some attention on the new maps otherwise i will die.

My only issue with HoT is i believe i could have easily been delivered via living world updates over a period of time rather than having to wait months and months with nothing new then getting it all at once .

Another benefit of frequent and smaller updates is that anet can focus on one thing at a time which will mean less bugs .

I could never understand all the people that where clamoring for an expansion we were on a good thing…….

I agree with everything this guy is saying, HOT looked great and I was really excited the first week trying all of the new stuff, then I saw how shallow everything was and how much we were missing from what was advertised and what the core game was that I completely lost interest and haven’t really been playing much at all.

I’m not sure it is a failure at all. HoT added a lot of things that are pretty decent.

#1: Harder enemies. I’ve been wanting that for awhile.
#2: Elaborate maps and more involved maps. Always a good thing.
#3: A metroid style of progression where you gain the ability to explore new areas.
#4: The elite specializations are awesome (if a bit power-creepy), and I like playing as most of them.
#5: A large series of collections and achievements for completionists.
#6: Some pretty cool looking skins.
#7: Events that are actually fun to do.

So, I like the xpac, and from what I’ve heard it has sold really well, so I wonder what your standard of failure is.

I don’t know about the op OR the person making that video

The launch was far better than any other Mmo launch i have seen in years(talking about big guns like wow) that itself is a big thing, you may cry that were bugs and all but comparatively it was fantastic

I found Hot a lot of fun, from exploring(yes even tangled depths) , story, legendary crafting, adventures, meta events , mastery system, fractals etc all i give an A- to A+

What i didn’t like was the raids(shouldn’t belong in GW2) and the dungeon nerfs

The thing is the expansion is not over yet we still have a few more years to go :/

I’m fine with allot of the PvE stuff however there are a few core problems that have disappointed me.

1: The class balance is horribad now.

2: There is literally no reason to bring a warrior, thief or guardian. In the case of the former two their dps doesn’t make up for the lack of utility. In the case of the later there is absolutely no reason to bring a guardian because everything they can do is done better by an engineer, ele, rev or ranger now while they do higher damage.

3: Numerous core specs still have major problems and a ton of traits that nobody in their right mind will ever use.

4: The elite specs are very very very much an upgrade to core specs.

5: The new WvW maps do nothing to fix the core problems with WvW (zerging insanely unbalanced numbers etc..)

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I’m not sure it is a failure at all. HoT added a lot of things that are pretty decent.

#1: Harder enemies. I’ve been wanting that for awhile.
#2: Elaborate maps and more involved maps. Always a good thing.
#3: A metroid style of progression where you gain the ability to explore new areas.
#4: The elite specializations are awesome (if a bit power-creepy), and I like playing as most of them.
#5: A large series of collections and achievements for completionists.
#6: Some pretty cool looking skins.
#7: Events that are actually fun to do.

So, I like the xpac, and from what I’ve heard it has sold really well, so I wonder what your standard of failure is.

I really don’t agree with 2,4,6 and 7 to a degree, the events feel no more or less fun than events on any other map in the whole of GW2.

HoT did not fail, nor is it a run away success.
I feel the same about HoT as I did factions at launch, its really not my thing, and I’ll go there only when I have to, for story and what not. I was never a fan of Metroid, so having to level mastery that don’t unlock till later on to just get around the first map annoyed me a bit, add the challenges to the mix, and I can safely say I’ll never max may masteries as I really dislike the challenges, and having them locked behind events needing to be done is also a pain, as some you can’t unlock on your own(so I’ve been told) and they only stay open for a short time(again so I’ve been told) I know there are people out there who love HoT, and think it’s everything this game should be, but I’m sure there are also an equal amount that feel HoT is nothing like the game they have enjoyed for the last 3 years. There are also the people on the fence, who see both sides and like me want a happy medium.

I agree with most of what he said although personally I hate the adventures. With them being locked behind meta events I literally had a period of 20 minutes to do shooting gallery before nightfall yesterday. On top of that many are RNG with too tight timing requirements. On top of that many require masteries like speed mushrooms which they don’t tell you anywhere in game. On top of that the worst thing is them locking masteries behind this optional content which makes it not optional.

Also I thought the elite specs were pretty fun for the most part although definitely agree they are straight upgrades which I’m assuming was to force pvpers to buy HOT to stay relevant.

I do consider HOT a failure as I finish most sessions of playing annoyed and didn’t have fun. Also I have lost my faith in ANET and don’t plan on buying any of their future products unless it’s proven complete and without significant bugs.

i bought it for 30usd thus is acceptable….to some degree
but 2016 is a brand new year for many dx12 games…. anet need to pick up or be replaced but since gw2 target casuals though current trend don’t seems that casual any more but w/e, casuals won’t change games that often unlike the gamers.

though i wouldn’t put HOT into the same category as expansion
it is not complete and some people notice that while some people argue that the expansion is just a foundation for the many things to come but to those who say that has no idea what it means to be incomplete. incomplete simply means that there are missing contents, contents that we suppose to be able to access but not there because anet simply delivered a incomplete product on a rushed unplanned schedule.

SkyShroud.2865:

i bought it for 30usd thus is acceptable….to some degree
but 2016 is a brand new year for many dx12 games…. anet need to pick up or be replaced but since gw2 target casuals though current trend don’t seems that casual any more but w/e, casuals won’t change games that often unlike the gamers.

though i wouldn’t put HOT into the same category as expansion
it is not complete and some people notice that while some people argue that the expansion is just a foundation for the many things to come but to those who say that has no idea what it means to be incomplete. incomplete simply means that there are missing contents, contents that we suppose to be able to access but not there because anet simply delivered a incomplete product on a rushed unplanned schedule.

I feel.most of what you said maybe true, and HoT is not an expansion, but more of a DLC season pass of sorts. It is too early to say if HoT is worth the money or not, but I feel that if you look at what we got at face value, it really was not that much, and the price really did not reflect the content you got at launch.

When the next expansion rolls around, if we have had another 4-6 maps, and a tone of story, maybe then it will be worth the price.

But as with most thing in life, time will tell.

I don’t think it failed.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I’m not sure it is a failure at all. HoT added a lot of things that are pretty decent.

#1: Harder enemies. I’ve been wanting that for awhile.
#2: Elaborate maps and more involved maps. Always a good thing.
#3: A metroid style of progression where you gain the ability to explore new areas.
#4: The elite specializations are awesome (if a bit power-creepy), and I like playing as most of them.
#5: A large series of collections and achievements for completionists.
#6: Some pretty cool looking skins.
#7: Events that are actually fun to do.

So, I like the xpac, and from what I’ve heard it has sold really well, so I wonder what your standard of failure is.

I totally agree with you. I’ll be full honsest and say that yes there are things that need fixing and balancing and badly. But theobjective and the direction this xpac has set up is very much what I desired. I think people are overly salty. It’s not easy to code, and atm it’s christmas holiday (almost finished tho)
So give those devs some times to see the actual fixes they have in store, then maybe you can complain.

My 2 copperz

Gaaroth.2567:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I’m not sure it is a failure at all. HoT added a lot of things that are pretty decent.

#1: Harder enemies. I’ve been wanting that for awhile.
#2: Elaborate maps and more involved maps. Always a good thing.
#3: A metroid style of progression where you gain the ability to explore new areas.
#4: The elite specializations are awesome (if a bit power-creepy), and I like playing as most of them.
#5: A large series of collections and achievements for completionists.
#6: Some pretty cool looking skins.
#7: Events that are actually fun to do.

So, I like the xpac, and from what I’ve heard it has sold really well, so I wonder what your standard of failure is.

I totally agree with you. I’ll be full honsest and say that yes there are things that need fixing and balancing and badly. But theobjective and the direction this xpac has set up is very much what I desired. I think people are overly salty. It’s not easy to code, and atm it’s christmas holiday (almost finished tho)
So give those devs some times to see the actual fixes they have in store, then maybe you can complain.

My 2 copperz

Agreed with u guys. Summing up what is really needed is they heards us here.

Apart from the adventures I also found myself agreeing with most things MagicMike said about HoT, including his conclusion. Was HoT a complete failure for me? No, it wasn’t. But it wasn’t a success by any stretch of the imagination, either.

There were just so many bizarre design decisions that made me say “What on earth where they thinking?” and “Who thought this would be a good idea?” One might argue about whether some things are actually fun or not, but some things speak for themselves. Here are three Wtf?-moments that don’t depend on your personal taste.

1. The dungeon scene has lost their favorite toys after being neglected since release with no better reason than “Because we can. Play something else.” Wait, what? You want to cater to almost every possible audience and run a free to play shop but you take away something your players enjoy without being forced to by any means? Wtf?
2. The PvP scene, while never in a brilliant shape, is in a sorry state and the attempts to create an e-sports scene without even trying to get the game mode into shape first subsequently backfired. You don’t believe it? Well, then just look at it, the numbers are there for everybody to see and they say “Nobody cares”. You don’t believe there is a game breaking meta? Well, then just look at it. If the professional scene cannot do a thing about it and every tournament match becomes a borefest because of it… there might be a balance problem. For months. Wtf?
   There is no successful e-sports game with game breaking balance problems for months. This is 2016, not 2006.
3. The WvW has been gutted. There is a forum full of reasons why it is and a forum full of reasons why this was about to happen, the latter being found in the archive. The GvG scene is dead, the roamer scene is dead, the borderlands crews are dead and even zerging used to be a lot more fun. You don’t believe it? Well, then just look at it. The borderlands are empty, the GvG scene is nowhere to be found, you can roam around for hours without getting anywhere with it, nobody actively defends any borderland, and hitting a brick wall because of turtle banners or getting blasted to hell and back by dragon banners is <insert random curse here>.
   ANet shrug it off, they didn’t care before and they don’t care now. If that’s not a wtf moment, I don’t know what is. If you lose a lot of long term customers who kept loyal to the game even though you didn’t exactly treated them as kings and it doesn’t scare the heck out of you, you’re doing it wrong.

As I wrote about the story that I simply loathe: I don’t hate the game and I don’t hate its developer. However, I want them to push forward to show the world that they are striving to be best at what they’re doing, to create the best game they can in their particular niche, a niche that ArenaNet once created themselves, a niche that became a thing because they had confidence in it, went big on it and got the job done.
I do not want them to succumb to mediocrity or worse. Even if you defend HoT to the death: There is no way to deny that HoT was mediocre and in no way up to the standards they set themselves in the past. Filler content and busy work were once beneath the dignity of this franchise. I want these times back.

Pretty personal opinion and also the guy there tells a lot of positive things. Like he likes the raid and also the revenant profession. And even in his conclusion that he – although he has a lot to complain – he liked it overall and got what he’s paid for.

I only have a few complaints:
- more maps next time please, it’s basically 3 maps and one meta event map which is on the super lower end compared to other triple A MMOs.
- don’t balance your legendaries, crafting, collection etc. around the TP kitten ups. It is your fault that initially the lower tier mats were so underused and then you make us using this stuff like low tier leather which almost never drops – especially not in the new maps cuz it’s 80ies.
- you made dungeons unattractive and tell us fractals is the new 5man content… without adding a single new instance. WTF? Very bad idea.
- some adventures are too hard or shouldn’t be tied to MPs

I agree with most of what he said actually. I still have a lot of fun with the game and I wouldn’t say it’s a failure, but it’s near it.

- PvP got only 1 map/mode.
- WvW was completly killed with the new 4 maps completly empty
- Elites Spec are a big power creep and if you are not sure why it’s a bad thing, go take a look at extra credits’ episode on the subject.
- Fractal were improve on one side and broken on the other.
- The story was mediocre.
- Legendary Crafting is actually good, but they did zero to stop the huge spike in ascended price (2-3 times costlier than before HoT) so it’s completly useless to craft most of the old precursor. Still have some bugs that prevent people to complete their precursor (like me) and some stupid decisions (fail an event).
- Masteries in Glinding, Shroom, and Auto-loot are great, but other than that, it’s mostly just gating, useless or boring.

It’s been a bit more than 2 months since HoT launched and I’m almost back to the point where I was before it. I do some daily task, raid, PvP and collection. I gain raid and some new collections so that’s nice. But Fractal is a shadow of what it used to be in term of fun and most of my friend don’t play PvP anymore (mostly because it’s all about elite spec so they feel like they are back to square one).

Still love the game in general, but it’s not a good sign when most of what HoT brought seem to need a lot of work.

Although i agree with almost everything he says in the video and that a lot of stuff that is just to grindy was added.At no point did i here him say hot was a failure,sure parts of it fail.I still hold out hope that a lot of the complains will be addressed and that hot can be salvaged.I love a lot of stuff added with hot but realy realy hate some parts.

I agree with some of the comments made. Not all, but some.

I will absolutely agree that both the core game, and HoT where both shipped far too early. But… I’ve been saying the first for years, and said much the same about HoT when they revealed the release date. shrug

Finally finished watching the video this morning. Other than adventures, as others mentioned, I agree with everything mentioned in the video. I think we all know why HoT was rushed, but that’s another discussion.

I really hope developers from ANet watch the video . . . but I’m not holding my breath either.

I’m pretty sure they’re well aware of what was in that video as nothing was really all that new to hear. Every design decision has pros and and cons. With that, some players will like them and others will not.

And you know what we call that? Apathy. And it explains a lot about why the game is in the condition it is now. Again, I hope at least one developer watches it and not dismiss it out of hand like you just did.

But, again, I’m not holding my breath.

I agree with mostly everything in that video but I could also make a list of things not mentioned for WvW and PvP. His summary is good however.

Anet has amazing artists, it’s sad they were rushed so much. HoT needed another year of development.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

And you know what we call that? Apathy. And it explains a lot about why the game is in the condition it is now. Again, I hope at least one developer watches it and not dismiss it out of hand like you just did.

But, again, I’m not holding my breath.

At what point was I dismissing those complaints? There are pros and cons to every design decision. They’re not going to make everyone happy. They also have development goals of their own.

How about if they implemented things the way that you feel they should be. What would you say if the people who enjoy things as they are now complained? Would you simply “dismiss” their complaints and be “apathetic”?

Ayrilana.1396:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

And you know what we call that? Apathy. And it explains a lot about why the game is in the condition it is now. Again, I hope at least one developer watches it and not dismiss it out of hand like you just did.

But, again, I’m not holding my breath.

At what point was I dismissing those complaints? There are pros and cons to every design decision. They’re not going to make everyone happy. They also have development goals of their own.

How about if they implemented things the way that you feel they should be. What would you say if the people who enjoy things as they are now complained? Would you simply “dismiss” their complaints and be “apathetic”?

The fact that you cant please all people is an irrelevant comment. Yes its true, but that doesnt mean that you cant please more people, or that you made a great attempt.

I think hot is worthwhile, at 30ish dollars. But they could have pleased more people, i dont think they set up as many winning paradigms as they thought they did, and execution of some of their better ideas was not as good as it shouod have been.

Its like a kid who gets 65s on his test and then says nobody is perfecf, true, but it doesnt really mean anything

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

And you know what we call that? Apathy. And it explains a lot about why the game is in the condition it is now. Again, I hope at least one developer watches it and not dismiss it out of hand like you just did.

But, again, I’m not holding my breath.

At what point was I dismissing those complaints? There are pros and cons to every design decision. They’re not going to make everyone happy. They also have development goals of their own.

How about if they implemented things the way that you feel they should be. What would you say if the people who enjoy things as they are now complained? Would you simply “dismiss” their complaints and be “apathetic”?

The fact that you cant please all people is an irrelevant comment. Yes its true, but that doesnt mean that you cant please more people, or that you made a great attempt.

I think hot is worthwhile, at 30ish dollars. But they could have pleased more people, i dont think they set up as many winning paradigms as they thought they did, and execution of some of their better ideas was not as good as it shouod have been.

Its like a kid who gets 65s on his test and then says nobody is perfecf, true, but it doesnt really mean anything

Except the performance of HoT is subjective. You can’t say that more people are displeased about it just as you cannot say the opposite. At what threshold would you find acceptable? Is that threshold reasonable? How you you know whether they have or haven’t met that threshold?

HoT is not a failure, by far I only got 2 problems with it.

1. The trash mobs should be a bit less annoying.
2. The final story chapter is way too long and buggy.

Ayrilana.1396:

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

And you know what we call that? Apathy. And it explains a lot about why the game is in the condition it is now. Again, I hope at least one developer watches it and not dismiss it out of hand like you just did.

But, again, I’m not holding my breath.

At what point was I dismissing those complaints? There are pros and cons to every design decision. They’re not going to make everyone happy. They also have development goals of their own.

How about if they implemented things the way that you feel they should be. What would you say if the people who enjoy things as they are now complained? Would you simply “dismiss” their complaints and be “apathetic”?

The fact that you cant please all people is an irrelevant comment. Yes its true, but that doesnt mean that you cant please more people, or that you made a great attempt.

I think hot is worthwhile, at 30ish dollars. But they could have pleased more people, i dont think they set up as many winning paradigms as they thought they did, and execution of some of their better ideas was not as good as it shouod have been.

Its like a kid who gets 65s on his test and then says nobody is perfecf, true, but it doesnt really mean anything

Except the performance of HoT is subjective. You can’t say that more people are displeased about it just as you cannot say the opposite. At what threshold would you find acceptable? Is that threshold reasonable? How you you know whether they have or haven’t met that threshold?

When you cannot obtain data, that doesnt mean you give up analysis, it means you dont use data.

Aka you discuss the implementations, strengths and weaknesses, and see how you may improve its strengths, and lower its weaknesses.

Hot is not crap, but its also not working well for a lot of users, not all of that is something that is just a case of mutually exclusive choices.

Ayrilana.1396:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

And you know what we call that? Apathy. And it explains a lot about why the game is in the condition it is now. Again, I hope at least one developer watches it and not dismiss it out of hand like you just did.

But, again, I’m not holding my breath.

At what point was I dismissing those complaints? There are pros and cons to every design decision. They’re not going to make everyone happy. They also have development goals of their own.

How about if they implemented things the way that you feel they should be. What would you say if the people who enjoy things as they are now complained? Would you simply “dismiss” their complaints and be “apathetic”?

Per your line of reasoning, why make any changes what so ever? Why risk the expenditure of large amounts of money, man hours and the personal reputations of the developers behind the expansion if the best possible outcome is, “Well, gee, some people will be happy and some won’t.”

If that, in fact, is how Anet approached HoT, the it explains a great deal.

But of course, that is not how the persons at Anet — who envisioned the future direction HoT was to take the game — pitched the expansion to their investors. HoT was to re energize the game, bring in new players, expand it’s presence in the community.

Not just be a wash.

I completely agree with this video, while it might have been a financial success I feel like the general feeling in the community was that HOT was pretty bad.

The first few weeks I was loving it but it didn’t take me long to start to see how empty and shallow everything is.

Don’t get me wrong there are some great new things like the Revenant profession and maybe the Raid (haven’t tried it yet). I also liked the Adventures as some new kind of content to pursue, the new and more complex maps, and the idea behind masteries (although I do agree that most of them are just fillers).

The game becomes too repetitive too soon, the story was too short and as bad as it was in the core game, Dungeons have been killed, there’s also a shift from earning gear to buying gear from the Gem Store. It’s very sad to see that there are nearly no new armor sets or weapons in the expansion when back in the day the original Guild Wars expansions included so much more new gear. Everything now seems to be on a timer running from map to map just to do the meta but then abandoning the map.

There’s too much wrong or lackluster things to mention, just go watch the video.

I really hope ANet and the Devs are able to see past the financial success and realize the community is mostly disappointed.

Let’s talk six months from now on how HoT is viewed. When LS 3 bores and only one other wing of the raid has dropped.

Any MMO expac should be judged on whether or not it can carry the population until the next expansion.

Does anyone think HoT can do that? Seriously?