IBM PC XT 4.77mhz w/turbo oc@ 8mhz 640kb windows 3.1 hayes 56k seagate 20 meg HD mda@720x350 pixels
Why I think HoT failed
failure? i dont think it is, not from my perspective and i doubt from anets either since they are sticking to that plan of making more xpacs
it had flaws yes but what we did get was very good
Most wanted in game additions: Beastiary, readable books
failure? i dont think it is, not from my perspective and i doubt from anets either since they are sticking to that plan of making more xpacs
it had flaws yes but what we did get was very good
My feelings as well!
And some folks complaining <> failure. If that were the case, then every game out there would be a ‘failure’ lol.
(edited by Day Trooper.3605)
failure? i dont think it is, not from my perspective and i doubt from anets either since they are sticking to that plan of making more xpacs
it had flaws yes but what we did get was very good
If you remember a few years back they said they weren’t working on an expansion and didn’t not want to as they wanted to do more living story big patch content dumps. Well in order to make money they needed an expansion and finally made one and well it definitely feels rushed.
RP enthusiast
failure? i dont think it is, not from my perspective and i doubt from anets either since they are sticking to that plan of making more xpacs
it had flaws yes but what we did get was very good
If you remember a few years back they said they weren’t working on an expansion and didn’t not want to as they wanted to do more living story big patch content dumps. Well in order to make money they needed an expansion and finally made one and well it definitely feels rushed.
They did not say they were not working on an expansion. Not even close to that. They said they were not sure how they where going to release the content. The debate was whether to do so entirely through living story or through a traditional paid expansion or through a combination. They choose to do it via the traditional paid expansion route. There were people on the videos explaining various aspects of the expansion pre release who said they had been working on the content since soon after the main GW2 game released.
failure? i dont think it is, not from my perspective and i doubt from anets either since they are sticking to that plan of making more xpacs
it had flaws yes but what we did get was very good
If you remember a few years back they said they weren’t working on an expansion and didn’t not want to as they wanted to do more living story big patch content dumps. Well in order to make money they needed an expansion and finally made one and well it definitely feels rushed.
They did not say they were not working on an expansion. Not even close to that. They said they were not sure how they where going to release the content. The debate was whether to do so entirely through living story or through a traditional paid expansion or through a combination. They choose to do it via the traditional paid expansion route. There were people on the videos explaining various aspects of the expansion pre release who said they had been working on the content since soon after the main GW2 game released.
Even so they didn’t know how they were going to release it. Point being is it seems they have no clue how to release things until it is to late and as a result content seems rushed.
RP enthusiast
They did not say they were not working on an expansion. Not even close to that. They said they were not sure how they where going to release the content. The debate was whether to do so entirely through living story or through a traditional paid expansion or through a combination.
That’s actually not correct.
Eurogamer.net (03/07/2013)
“So right now we’re not really looking at expansions as an option,” lead content designer Mike Zadorojny told me[…].
“It’s something that’s on the table but it’s not something we’re focused on, because what we want to do is – our idea here is that with Living World, we can do what expansions would have done but do it on a more regular basis.”
IGN.com (03/05/2013)
“It’s something that’s on the table but it’s not something we’re focused on, because what we want to do is – our idea here is that with Living World, we can do what expansions would have done but do it on a more regular basis.” (Colin Johanson)
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/03/05/no-guild-wars-2-expansions-currently-planned
And so on. What they actually not said was: “expansions will never be an option”. But it is safe to assume that the development of the expansion as an actual expansion began relatively late. It includes content or features which have been developed before the decision to release them as part of an expansion, but in order to release an actual expansion they shoved systems and content out of the door before they were throughoutly playtested and ready for the live servers while holding back finished ones resulting in the content drought before the HoT launch. The result is are the varying degrees of quality and some larger and quite a lot of smaller issues and questionable design decisions that they might have been able to avoid under other circumstances.
They did not say they were not working on an expansion. Not even close to that. They said they were not sure how they where going to release the content. The debate was whether to do so entirely through living story or through a traditional paid expansion or through a combination.
That’s actually not correct.
Eurogamer.net (03/07/2013)
“So right now we’re not really looking at expansions as an option,” lead content designer Mike Zadorojny told me[…].
“It’s something that’s on the table but it’s not something we’re focused on, because what we want to do is – our idea here is that with Living World, we can do what expansions would have done but do it on a more regular basis.”
IGN.com (03/05/2013)
“It’s something that’s on the table but it’s not something we’re focused on, because what we want to do is – our idea here is that with Living World, we can do what expansions would have done but do it on a more regular basis.” (Colin Johanson)
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/03/05/no-guild-wars-2-expansions-currently-planned
And so on. What they actually not said was: “expansions will never be an option”. But it is safe to assume that the development of the expansion as an actual expansion began relatively late. It includes content or features which have been developed before the decision to release them as part of an expansion, but in order to release an actual expansion they shoved systems and content out of the door before they were throughoutly playtested and ready for the live servers while holding back finished ones resulting in the content drought before the HoT launch. The result is are the varying degrees of quality and some larger and quite a lot of smaller issues and questionable design decisions that they might have been able to avoid under other circumstances.
How is what I wrote any different then what you quoted?
failure? i dont think it is, not from my perspective and i doubt from anets either since they are sticking to that plan of making more xpacs
it had flaws yes but what we did get was very good
If you remember a few years back they said they weren’t working on an expansion and didn’t not want to as they wanted to do more living story big patch content dumps. Well in order to make money they needed an expansion and finally made one and well it definitely feels rushed.
They did not say they were not working on an expansion. Not even close to that. They said they were not sure how they where going to release the content. The debate was whether to do so entirely through living story or through a traditional paid expansion or through a combination. They choose to do it via the traditional paid expansion route. There were people on the videos explaining various aspects of the expansion pre release who said they had been working on the content since soon after the main GW2 game released.
Not true. On numerous occasions, ANet came out and stated they were not working on an expansion and at the present had no intention on making one. If the claims of early labor explicitly for an expansion are true, then the company outright lied, and if they’re not, the company out-right lied on its scheduling. Based on how unpolished and unfinished many aspects of the expansion are, as well as completely contrary to the core game in its design, and hap-hazard elite specialization balancing and design, I think it’s fair to say ANet lied about its development time spent on the expansion in that the content was rushed. implying there were no plans for developing an expansion until fairly recently. If the expansion was polished from a design perspective, I wouldn’t argue this, but an overwhelming majority of the content provided in HoT is poorly-designed for what the game needs/needed.
LS wasn’t delivering, so the community complained to get an expansion (why, I don’t understand, I was arguing something like this would happen since the beginning). And they got one.
Formal Thief Elite Spec proposal:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/ES-Suggestion-The-Deadeye-FORMAL/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/ES-Suggestion-The-Deadeye-FORMAL/
How is what I wrote any different then what you quoted?
Alright then…
They did not say they were not working on an expansion. Not even close to that.
They did. Quotations to back that up see above.
The debate was whether to do so entirely through living story or through a traditional paid expansion or through a combination.
No. Quotations see above and read further in the articles. Until they came around the corner with the HoT announcement, the official statement was: No expansions. We’re not working on it, we’re releasing the content via the Living World funded by the gem shop earnings.
Fine, they lied to you and should burn for it. Live life to its fullest I guess.
If the claims of early labor explicitly for an expansion are true, then the company outright lied, and if they’re not, the company out-right lied on its scheduling. Based on how unpolished and unfinished many aspects of the expansion are, as well as completely contrary to the core game in its design, and hap-hazard elite specialization balancing and design, I think it’s fair to say ANet lied about its development time spent on the expansion in that the content was rushed. implying there were no plans for developing an expansion until fairly recently.
While I cannot prove you wrong simply because I’ve never worked for ArenaNet, I think you’re jumping to conclusions here. While I have critizised ANet on numerous occasions, I don’t see why they would have lied to us in regard of their intended development and release schedule. It’s not like the idea of a fully fledged out expansion would have been unpopular at any point during the life cycle of the game.
The more interesting question is why they changed their plans and released HoT in this state. If you have a closer look at the expansion and count out the XP grind for masteries and the content gating, wouldn’t you agree that HoT almost screams “I was Living Story Season 3?”
The story instances and the open world events are somewhat intertwined, but if you play them, it’s not like the expansion guides you through both of these content types in the most logical order. Releasing them bit by bit and guiding the players as it was in the Living Story chapters would fit much better than this full release.
I’ll go out on a limb and claim that the final story mission wouldn’t have been in such a sorry state littered with game breaking bugs if it would have been released in order with the original release schedule. It was the most complex of them all mechanical wise and was obviously not throughoutly playtested and debugged, but put in a state where it would work at least under some common circumstances.
We can only speculate why the schedules were changed and I wonder whether we would have gotten Heart of Thorns as an expansion pack or rather as a LS release if other NCSoft projects, notably Wildstar, wouldn’t have flopped.
We might never get an answer to that, but I suppose it’s not unreasonable to assume that we as GW2 players got the short end of the stick because of business decisions at the opposite end of the food chain.
(edited by Alicornus.7095)
How is what I wrote any different then what you quoted?
Alright then…
They did not say they were not working on an expansion. Not even close to that.
They did. Quotations to back that up see above.
The debate was whether to do so entirely through living story or through a traditional paid expansion or through a combination.
No. Quotations see above and read further in the articles. Until they came around the corner with the HoT announcement, the official statement was: No expansions. We’re not working on it, we’re releasing the content via the Living World funded by the gem shop earnings.
They also said that they were working on several big projects in the background and hadn’t decided how to deliver them yet.
An expansion is a group of features and content that is bundled together and sold. Anet’s argument has always been that expansion features could be delivered through the Living Story. That has never changed.
They believed they could deliver it through the Living Story and perhaps they could have but a rather loud portion of the community kept screaming for an expansion. So Anet took the stuff they were planning to release for LS, bolstered it or changed what they needed to and made it into an expansion.
Saying that they didn’t start the expansion earlier, would mean knowing that they didn’t use any of the assets they had made for the living world in an expansion.
there’s no mystery here or conspiracies’ by the oh so evil developers, they realised players wanted expansions more than Living story so they changed strategy. In development you do not simply stop as soon as you identify a new strategy , it takes time between that initial decision and the point where you can confirm that you can safely implement the new products, what’s the reuse like, what’s the regression impact, whats the cost etc etc so you may very well spend months developing a product but will say nothing in case it does not work out.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
they realised players wanted expansions more than Living story
And now we should all realize, that wasn’t the case. Also, that the Living Story was much more manageable for the player and the community. I’d also say it’s generally better for the game design wise. Too much at once creates far too many bugs and balance issues. The dev’s need to follow the adage, “Brick by Brick”.
[AwM] of Jade Quarry.
they realised players wanted expansions more than Living story
And now we should all realize, that wasn’t the case. Also, that the Living Story was much more manageable for the player and the community. I’d also say it’s generally better for the game design wise. Too much at once creates far too many bugs and balance issues. The dev’s need to follow the adage, “Brick by Brick”.
What players want it good content. HOT has some good content but its gated behind large grinds and the actual story is kittene. Living Story 1 had really really poor writing and the content wasn’t permanent. LS2 was a mixture, better writing and permanent content but still some grind albeit not nearly as bad as HOT.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
The complaints I have seen are often identical to the hate given to core tyria, season 1 and season 2 over the last 3 years, they’re just re-directed at the expac.
I’m not saying your opinion of it being a failure is invalid, I’m just not understanding your criteria. It did provide greater challenge – better ai, harder mobs, group events, raids – all specifically asked for by the community.
Better rewards is more tricky. The rng is still a bit of a plague, but improved collections, raid exclusives, precursor crafting, new mats which sell strongly on the tp, improved map rewards, all point to an improved direction. Not perhaps where many want, but not necessarily a huge failure either.
If you don’t find it fun, well that’s a subjective thing. Not sure I can say anything to the contrary to make you think otherwise – you are entitled not to enjoy it of course. I happen to find it massively good fun in most areas important to me personally.
What timers are broken by the way? I agree the DS mechanic is a bit silly, but what else?
there is 3 options for the devs they can keep rng and keep people busy playing and delaying the whining of no content or get rid of rng and everyone whines about being done with content OR work 24/7 have no friends or family time or free time and make a ton of content that will be complained about continuously. they cannot win here.
im bad at sarcasm
The complaints I have seen are often identical to the hate given to core tyria, season 1 and season 2 over the last 3 years, they’re just re-directed at the expac.
I’m not saying your opinion of it being a failure is invalid, I’m just not understanding your criteria. It did provide greater challenge – better ai, harder mobs, group events, raids – all specifically asked for by the community.
Better rewards is more tricky. The rng is still a bit of a plague, but improved collections, raid exclusives, precursor crafting, new mats which sell strongly on the tp, improved map rewards, all point to an improved direction. Not perhaps where many want, but not necessarily a huge failure either.
If you don’t find it fun, well that’s a subjective thing. Not sure I can say anything to the contrary to make you think otherwise – you are entitled not to enjoy it of course. I happen to find it massively good fun in most areas important to me personally.
What timers are broken by the way? I agree the DS mechanic is a bit silly, but what else?
there is 3 options for the devs they can keep rng and keep people busy playing and delaying the whining of no content or get rid of rng and everyone whines about being done with content OR work 24/7 have no friends or family time or free time and make a ton of content that will be complained about continuously. they cannot win here.
Unfortunately thats a preview of the future of mmos as the entitled generation who their entire life were told they’d be a famous player and given trophies when in reality they struck out every time up to bat and their team was virtually eliminated before playoffs even started.
Rng is a needed mechanic- it has the biggest impact on item value. Players see their chance to obtain an item and immeditely go into whine mode how rng is terrible all the while failing to comprend that rewards are univerisal and that at any point in the day thousands of players getting individualized loot.
Being honest gw2 should be worshipping Anet for that last feature ( kinda ironic coming from me). In previous game when loot dropped it was randomly assigned and locked to a party member for a few minutes when it was then open for grabs. Going back to D2 days loot then was first to click.
– would of loved to see a good portion of the playerbase then tears to sweet.
Mmorpgs are meant to last years not be 30 days CoD’s. DJ que up " You can’t always get what you want" and spin that kitten!!!!
Bender the offender – Proud violator of 17 safe spaces –
Honestly, HoT did not fail. But it wasn’t great either. I would say it is in the middle.
The good thing about HoT is the glider. And if Anet is going to bring gliding to Core Tyria, all the better. Let’s not say it will trivialize JP’s in core Tyria. How many times can you glide upwards?
The bad thing about HoT is the same thing core Tyria is experiencing. Grinding. :P
Honestly, HoT did not fail. But it wasn’t great either. I would say it is in the middle.
The good thing about HoT is the glider. And if Anet is going to bring gliding to Core Tyria, all the better. Let’s not say it will trivialize JP’s in core Tyria. How many times can you glide upwards?The bad thing about HoT is the same thing core Tyria is experiencing. Grinding. :P
a grindless mmo is just not something that will ever exist successfully, its a pipe dream
none of the grinding in gw2 though is required to be competitive so you can much more easily than any other mmo pick and choose what you want to do
Most wanted in game additions: Beastiary, readable books
I don’t say that HoT failed. I could say that some part of the expansion have been gone thru where fence is lowest. That’s why, I see that HoT was made group of exhausted people. That hectic time table what they had with Living Story 2 drain their powers. Those people who is working or have been worked in IT departments, know that every second week roll out is very hectic timetable with this scale roll outs what they implemented in GW2.
So, no HoT didn’t fail, that work what those people did before HoT was bit too more ambious what they expected. It was nessessery to loose the speed of roll outs and only way to do it, was doing end of the Living Story 2 to the expansion. The idea of making end of the Living Story 2 behind of paywall, was not best idea. But it was something what they had to do because of their workers sake.
This is not fact what I am writing in here, but it is just imagination of what might have been happen in point of view of IT worker.
They believed they could deliver it through the Living Story and perhaps they could have but a rather loud portion of the community kept screaming for an expansion. So Anet took the stuff they were planning to release for LS, bolstered it or changed what they needed to and made it into an expansion.
To me, this has been obvious from day one. And like most things, it was probably driven by money – which is fine. They probably felt that it did not pay to continue to develop and release free Living Story Seasons.
HoT is Living Story Season 3.
They believed they could deliver it through the Living Story and perhaps they could have but a rather loud portion of the community kept screaming for an expansion. So Anet took the stuff they were planning to release for LS, bolstered it or changed what they needed to and made it into an expansion.
To me, this has been obvious from day one. And like most things, it was probably driven by money – which is fine. They probably felt that it did not pay to continue to develop and release free Living Story Seasons.
HoT is Living Story Season 3.
The community driving anet to release an xpac is just as apocryphal as ascended being introduced because the masses were baying for more to do. In both cases the noise was hardly overwhelming. No the reason HOT was done was because their revenues were declining.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
They believed they could deliver it through the Living Story and perhaps they could have but a rather loud portion of the community kept screaming for an expansion. So Anet took the stuff they were planning to release for LS, bolstered it or changed what they needed to and made it into an expansion.
To me, this has been obvious from day one. And like most things, it was probably driven by money – which is fine. They probably felt that it did not pay to continue to develop and release free Living Story Seasons.
HoT is Living Story Season 3.
The community driving anet to release an xpac is just as apocryphal as ascended being introduced because the masses were baying for more to do. In both cases the noise was hardly overwhelming. No the reason HOT was done was because their revenues were declining.
No one I know said that people were asking for a new tier of gear. All I ever said, and I continue to say, is that people were leaving the game because they had nothing to do. Anet made ascended gear to keep people playing.
On the other hand, the outcry for an expansion was huge, it was all day every day on both this forum and on reddit. People complained they didn’t like the personal story, it wasn’t enough content, they wanted something that they could play through over a longer time.
You can call it apocryphal, but that doesn’t make it so. I’m on these forums a lot, and I remember how it was. It wasn’t a couple of people posting occasionally. There a huge wave of people saying the wanted an expansion. I’m not sure how anyone can say otherwise.
Edit: btw, +1 for using apocryphal. lol
they realised players wanted expansions more than Living story
And now we should all realize, that wasn’t the case. Also, that the Living Story was much more manageable for the player and the community. I’d also say it’s generally better for the game design wise. Too much at once creates far too many bugs and balance issues. The dev’s need to follow the adage, “Brick by Brick”.
Players wanted something on the scale of Factions or Nightfall (which weren’t technically expansions but semantics), not a living story season welded to a feature pack.
Especially for the obscene price Anet charged.
Whenever you find yourself asking some variation of the question, “why did they…?” The answer is almost always, “money.”
Why did Anet change their mind about expansions? Money.
Edit: And that is not criticism. It is perfectly appropriate for a company to try to make money.
It’s not fun, it’s “funishing”. Every ten feet, you are in a fight, stop too long, and you will be overwhelmed. This isn’t fun, and being one-shotted by enemies is not “challenging”, it is punishing. This expansion is great for “hardcore” players who love to brag to their little friends how awesome they are online. For everyone else looking for some entertainment, some enjoyment, a good mix of challenge and exploration, it is a let-down. Still, I’ve pumped enough money into this game that I feel obligated to keep going, even while hating most of the new enemies (Christ, MUSHROOM men? What is this, Mario Brothers?) and despise being pummeled on every side and at every turn. (My opinion, so you needn’t tell me I’m wrong, I await all the “get gud” comments that normally follow.)
they realised players wanted expansions more than Living story
And now we should all realize, that wasn’t the case. Also, that the Living Story was much more manageable for the player and the community. I’d also say it’s generally better for the game design wise. Too much at once creates far too many bugs and balance issues. The dev’s need to follow the adage, “Brick by Brick”.
Players wanted something on the scale of Factions or Nightfall (which weren’t technically expansions but semantics), not a living story season welded to a feature pack.
Especially for the obscene price Anet charged.
Subjective hindsight does not change reality. The majority preferred an expansion to more living story, and ANet saw that demand and reacted, despite their previous strategies which they accepted was not working.
As for price, the expansion price is in line with other expansions, and the expansion does not destroy older content. This is all noise though, what we are seeing here is endless ‘I don’t like HOT so therefore no one must like it’ which is evidently incorrect.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
Besides all the reasons here. Mostly failed cuz it was announced & Rushed out, untested & broken as hell before it was even ready.
I don’t know if it failed, but it failed me.
I have tried to stick it out in HoT, character after character, race after race, seriously trying to find the fun in the game, but in the end just doing what is needed, as I struggled with my inner feelings and combating the sensations that others will not easily abandon new content.. I was utterly disappointed to find, after only a few months play, the zones to be dead in my EU world server.. constantly receiving message to change maps to only find it popping up again after less than 5min in the ‘more populated’ map.. One has to critically wonder about the design idea, although true in nature and grand on paper, most people just wont play or look for pug groups.
Countless times I have heard good friends go completely crazy on TS, even helping them, outside of story-mode did not have the desired effect and those in the guild who already completed their Achievement points in the areas are not much interested to run through grinding content unless they are completely bored or have no other achi’s to hunt. Sadly I really feel ArenaNet will abnegate any major changes to accommodate the community at large and change the mechanics of current state of the game as it seems the original plan to back Guilds and community play is here to stay, although I try to believe myself wrong on this matter nothing seems clear if any PvE group based focused content will get any easier. Pity for solo/semi-solo players like myself but hey, there are many more things to do, until all achievements are done at least.
We can only hope.
[Gamers Repulic of South Africa]
I have tried to stick it out in HoT, character after character, race after race, seriously trying to find the fun in the game, but in the end just doing what is needed, as I struggled with my inner feelings and combating the sensations that others will not easily abandon new content.. I was utterly disappointed to find, after only a few months play, the zones to be dead in my EU world server.. constantly receiving message to change maps to only find it popping up again after less than 5min in the ‘more populated’ map.. One has to critically wonder about the design idea, although true in nature and grand on paper, most people just wont play or look for pug groups.
Countless times I have heard good friends go completely crazy on TS, even helping them, outside of story-mode did not have the desired effect and those in the guild who already completed their Achievement points in the areas are not much interested to run through grinding content unless they are completely bored or have no other achi’s to hunt. Sadly I really feel ArenaNet will abnegate any major changes to accommodate the community at large and change the mechanics of current state of the game as it seems the original plan to back Guilds and community play is here to stay, although I try to believe myself wrong on this matter nothing seems clear if any PvE group based focused content will get any easier. Pity for solo/semi-solo players like myself but hey, there are many more things to do, until all achievements are done at least.
We can only hope.
That’s what tends to happen when players rush through content or decide not to do certain aspects (e.g. collections) because they don’t enjoy them. Had they released 15+ maps like core Tyria, we’d still be in the same condition as we are now. Of course what you’re seeing here is nothing new and happens in every MMO.
I have tried to stick it out in HoT, character after character, race after race, seriously trying to find the fun in the game, but in the end just doing what is needed, as I struggled with my inner feelings and combating the sensations that others will not easily abandon new content.. I was utterly disappointed to find, after only a few months play, the zones to be dead in my EU world server.. constantly receiving message to change maps to only find it popping up again after less than 5min in the ‘more populated’ map.. One has to critically wonder about the design idea, although true in nature and grand on paper, most people just wont play or look for pug groups.
Countless times I have heard good friends go completely crazy on TS, even helping them, outside of story-mode did not have the desired effect and those in the guild who already completed their Achievement points in the areas are not much interested to run through grinding content unless they are completely bored or have no other achi’s to hunt. Sadly I really feel ArenaNet will abnegate any major changes to accommodate the community at large and change the mechanics of current state of the game as it seems the original plan to back Guilds and community play is here to stay, although I try to believe myself wrong on this matter nothing seems clear if any PvE group based focused content will get any easier. Pity for solo/semi-solo players like myself but hey, there are many more things to do, until all achievements are done at least.
We can only hope.That’s what tends to happen when players rush through content or decide not to do certain aspects (e.g. collections) because they don’t enjoy them. Had they released 15+ maps like core Tyria, we’d still be in the same condition as we are now. Of course what you’re seeing here is nothing new and happens in every MMO.
Except if they released a larger number of maps like in core Tyria, it’s unlikely they would all be mostly-meta maps. This would mean there would likely be more things for solo or small group players to do in a not very full map.
I have tried to stick it out in HoT, character after character, race after race, seriously trying to find the fun in the game, but in the end just doing what is needed, as I struggled with my inner feelings and combating the sensations that others will not easily abandon new content.. I was utterly disappointed to find, after only a few months play, the zones to be dead in my EU world server.. constantly receiving message to change maps to only find it popping up again after less than 5min in the ‘more populated’ map.. One has to critically wonder about the design idea, although true in nature and grand on paper, most people just wont play or look for pug groups.
Countless times I have heard good friends go completely crazy on TS, even helping them, outside of story-mode did not have the desired effect and those in the guild who already completed their Achievement points in the areas are not much interested to run through grinding content unless they are completely bored or have no other achi’s to hunt. Sadly I really feel ArenaNet will abnegate any major changes to accommodate the community at large and change the mechanics of current state of the game as it seems the original plan to back Guilds and community play is here to stay, although I try to believe myself wrong on this matter nothing seems clear if any PvE group based focused content will get any easier. Pity for solo/semi-solo players like myself but hey, there are many more things to do, until all achievements are done at least.
We can only hope.That’s what tends to happen when players rush through content or decide not to do certain aspects (e.g. collections) because they don’t enjoy them. Had they released 15+ maps like core Tyria, we’d still be in the same condition as we are now. Of course what you’re seeing here is nothing new and happens in every MMO.
Except if they released a larger number of maps like in core Tyria, it’s unlikely they would all be mostly-meta maps. This would mean there would likely be more things for solo or small group players to do in a not very full map.
Except they would have exhausted all content by this point in time or sooner which was the point I was making.
I have tried to stick it out in HoT, character after character, race after race, seriously trying to find the fun in the game, but in the end just doing what is needed, as I struggled with my inner feelings and combating the sensations that others will not easily abandon new content.. I was utterly disappointed to find, after only a few months play, the zones to be dead in my EU world server.. constantly receiving message to change maps to only find it popping up again after less than 5min in the ‘more populated’ map.. One has to critically wonder about the design idea, although true in nature and grand on paper, most people just wont play or look for pug groups.
Countless times I have heard good friends go completely crazy on TS, even helping them, outside of story-mode did not have the desired effect and those in the guild who already completed their Achievement points in the areas are not much interested to run through grinding content unless they are completely bored or have no other achi’s to hunt. Sadly I really feel ArenaNet will abnegate any major changes to accommodate the community at large and change the mechanics of current state of the game as it seems the original plan to back Guilds and community play is here to stay, although I try to believe myself wrong on this matter nothing seems clear if any PvE group based focused content will get any easier. Pity for solo/semi-solo players like myself but hey, there are many more things to do, until all achievements are done at least.
We can only hope.That’s what tends to happen when players rush through content or decide not to do certain aspects (e.g. collections) because they don’t enjoy them. Had they released 15+ maps like core Tyria, we’d still be in the same condition as we are now. Of course what you’re seeing here is nothing new and happens in every MMO.
Except if they released a larger number of maps like in core Tyria, it’s unlikely they would all be mostly-meta maps. This would mean there would likely be more things for solo or small group players to do in a not very full map.
Except they would have exhausted all content by this point in time or sooner which was the point I was making.
Yes, … if they were large maps like core Tyria, then HoT would just be more of the same of what core Tyria is … a place to earn daily’s and farm mats. WHOOPIE!! Let’s be honest here, HoT maps are what they are because Anet DIDN’T want them to be an extension of core Tyria, which is frankly a huge bore unless Scarlett is blowing it up somewhere.
+1, if you look at any group of 4 zones in isolation then they would look wanting, but hot zones are not in isolation, there are 32 zones offering a variety of gameplay.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
I have tried to stick it out in HoT, character after character, race after race, seriously trying to find the fun in the game, but in the end just doing what is needed, as I struggled with my inner feelings and combating the sensations that others will not easily abandon new content.. I was utterly disappointed to find, after only a few months play, the zones to be dead in my EU world server.. constantly receiving message to change maps to only find it popping up again after less than 5min in the ‘more populated’ map.. One has to critically wonder about the design idea, although true in nature and grand on paper, most people just wont play or look for pug groups.
Countless times I have heard good friends go completely crazy on TS, even helping them, outside of story-mode did not have the desired effect and those in the guild who already completed their Achievement points in the areas are not much interested to run through grinding content unless they are completely bored or have no other achi’s to hunt. Sadly I really feel ArenaNet will abnegate any major changes to accommodate the community at large and change the mechanics of current state of the game as it seems the original plan to back Guilds and community play is here to stay, although I try to believe myself wrong on this matter nothing seems clear if any PvE group based focused content will get any easier. Pity for solo/semi-solo players like myself but hey, there are many more things to do, until all achievements are done at least.
We can only hope.That’s what tends to happen when players rush through content or decide not to do certain aspects (e.g. collections) because they don’t enjoy them. Had they released 15+ maps like core Tyria, we’d still be in the same condition as we are now. Of course what you’re seeing here is nothing new and happens in every MMO.
Except if they released a larger number of maps like in core Tyria, it’s unlikely they would all be mostly-meta maps. This would mean there would likely be more things for solo or small group players to do in a not very full map.
Except they would have exhausted all content by this point in time or sooner which was the point I was making.
That’s not how it works for a subset of voracious alt players.
They play everything with one character. Then they play everything with the next character. Etc. Etc.
There’s a certain breakpoint for amount of content, different for every individual, where there’s enough content that starting the process anew, the content will feel fresh enough to keep the player interested. Obviously, if there were a million maps, no one would think the first map had become stale after playing all million of them and then starting on a new character. With just 4 maps, a great many players will feel the staleness set in very early in their replay cycles. Fifteen maps will be a decent number for far more players than just a measly 4 maps.
That’s not how it works for a subset of voracious alt players.
They play everything with one character. Then they play everything with the next character. Etc. Etc.
There’s a certain breakpoint for amount of content, different for every individual, where there’s enough content that starting the process anew, the content will feel fresh enough to keep the player interested. Obviously, if there were a million maps, no one would think the first map had become stale after playing all million of them and then starting on a new character. With just 4 maps, a great many players will feel the staleness set in very early in their replay cycles. Fifteen maps will be a decent number for far more players than just a measly 4 maps.
Refer to my previous posts:
Except if they released a larger number of maps like in core Tyria, it’s unlikely they would all be mostly-meta maps. This would mean there would likely be more things for solo or small group players to do in a not very full map.
Except they would have exhausted all content by this point in time or sooner which was the point I was making.
That’s what tends to happen when players rush through content or decide not to do certain aspects (e.g. collections) because they don’t enjoy them. Had they released 15+ maps like core Tyria, we’d still be in the same condition as we are now. Of course what you’re seeing here is nothing new and happens in every MMO.
Fifteen maps like core Tyria would have been exhausted just as quickly, if not quicker, than HoT maps. What you got with HoT is what you would have gotten with more maps similar to core Tyria. The only difference is that the HoT maps are more compacted with content rather than it spread out.
(edited by Ayrilana.1396)
Tyria map is really bad though. Though Hot only have 4 maps. It is at least half decent. And better replayable.
I havn’t play much mmorpg lately, but those Hot maps are just about as good as it get.
Anet is pretty bad with instance dungeon and raid though.
I have tried to stick it out in HoT, character after character, race after race, seriously trying to find the fun in the game, but in the end just doing what is needed, as I struggled with my inner feelings and combating the sensations that others will not easily abandon new content.. I was utterly disappointed to find, after only a few months play, the zones to be dead in my EU world server.. constantly receiving message to change maps to only find it popping up again after less than 5min in the ‘more populated’ map.. One has to critically wonder about the design idea, although true in nature and grand on paper, most people just wont play or look for pug groups.
Countless times I have heard good friends go completely crazy on TS, even helping them, outside of story-mode did not have the desired effect and those in the guild who already completed their Achievement points in the areas are not much interested to run through grinding content unless they are completely bored or have no other achi’s to hunt. Sadly I really feel ArenaNet will abnegate any major changes to accommodate the community at large and change the mechanics of current state of the game as it seems the original plan to back Guilds and community play is here to stay, although I try to believe myself wrong on this matter nothing seems clear if any PvE group based focused content will get any easier. Pity for solo/semi-solo players like myself but hey, there are many more things to do, until all achievements are done at least.
We can only hope.That’s what tends to happen when players rush through content or decide not to do certain aspects (e.g. collections) because they don’t enjoy them. Had they released 15+ maps like core Tyria, we’d still be in the same condition as we are now. Of course what you’re seeing here is nothing new and happens in every MMO.
Except if they released a larger number of maps like in core Tyria, it’s unlikely they would all be mostly-meta maps. This would mean there would likely be more things for solo or small group players to do in a not very full map.
Except they would have exhausted all content by this point in time or sooner which was the point I was making.
That’s not how it works for a subset of voracious alt players.
They play everything with one character. Then they play everything with the next character. Etc. Etc.
There’s a certain breakpoint for amount of content, different for every individual, where there’s enough content that starting the process anew, the content will feel fresh enough to keep the player interested. Obviously, if there were a million maps, no one would think the first map had become stale after playing all million of them and then starting on a new character. With just 4 maps, a great many players will feel the staleness set in very early in their replay cycles. Fifteen maps will be a decent number for far more players than just a measly 4 maps.
Hold on … so voracious alt players would be more likely to play multiple times through 15 maps of Core Tyria-like content than 4 maps of HoT-like content? If there is anything MORE stale than 4 maps of HoT-like content, it’s 15 maps of Core-like content. Of course, it depends on who’s behind the keyboard but quantity of maps is not relevant, unless of course the goal was to hide poor, easy content behind an expanse of shiny looking visuals akin to a MMO scenery museum… Oh, I sort of described what Core feels like right there.
Unfortunately thats a preview of the future of mmos as the entitled generation who their entire life were told they’d be a famous player and given trophies when in reality they struck out every time up to bat and their team was virtually eliminated before playoffs even started.
Rng is a needed mechanic- it has the biggest impact on item value. Players see their chance to obtain an item and immeditely go into whine mode how rng is terrible all the while failing to comprend that rewards are univerisal and that at any point in the day thousands of players getting individualized loot.
And what was wrong with bite sized patches to keep the players busy? Both the by-weekly patches and monthly patches worked just fine. There also wasn’t enough RNG or grind for people to actually complain about it.
There’s also nothing wrong with non RNG loot as you can make it take a while. A dungeon set takes like 10 days to acquire. The collection reward for all the dungeon sets? You’ll be busy for a couple of months.
Laurels were a daily currency, meaning you used to be getting an ascended accessory once every month. How did that hurt the game exactly?
There’s no RNG in ascended crafting. How did that hurt the game exactly?
Mmorpgs are meant to last years not be 30 days CoD’s. DJ que up " You can’t always get what you want" and spin that kitten!!!!
and before GW2 pulled this poop out it lasted me 3 years of nearly daily log ins. After hot, it didn’t last me more than a day.
Hold on … so voracious alt players would be more likely to play multiple times through 15 maps of Core Tyria-like content than 4 maps of HoT-like content? If there is anything MORE stale than 4 maps of HoT-like content, it’s 15 maps of Core-like content. Of course, it depends on who’s behind the keyboard but quantity of maps is not relevant, unless of course the goal was to hide poor, easy content behind an expanse of shiny looking visuals akin to a MMO scenery museum… Oh, I sort of described what Core feels like right there.
except that old maps had content that new maps do not:
free exploration with nothing being gated,
hearts, skill points and vistas (loved all 3, never liked dynamic events),
content being in more of a bite sized chunk making it easier to consume it. If I logged in on my alt and decided to do Sylvari starting area, it would probably take me an hour. I can’t set myself the same goal in HoT, due to locks behind masteries and dynamic event timers,
Old maps are less tedious. Fighting the same enemy with no mistakes done for over a minute is not fun, nor challenging. It’s tedious. When a map is too tedious, nobody likes it. Similarly to how Orr was very unpopulated and hated until the undead population was culled,
More maps = more environment change. Even in the same biodome, two maps didn’t look identical. You kind of lose that sense of visual progression when you’re stuck on the same 20% of a map for days.
(edited by Mirta.5029)
Subjective hindsight does not change reality. The majority preferred an expansion to more living story, and ANet saw that demand and reacted, despite their previous strategies which they accepted was not working.
As for price, the expansion price is in line with other expansions, and the expansion does not destroy older content. This is all noise though, what we are seeing here is endless ‘I don’t like HOT so therefore no one must like it’ which is evidently incorrect.
so dungeon loot nerfs, Spvp imbalance in regards to masteries, WvW imbalance in regards to masteries and changes made to small guilds, fractal loot nerfs and the requirement to have a HoT fractal mastery… That didn’t destroy any content, right?
Hold on … so voracious alt players would be more likely to play multiple times through 15 maps of Core Tyria-like content than 4 maps of HoT-like content? If there is anything MORE stale than 4 maps of HoT-like content, it’s 15 maps of Core-like content. Of course, it depends on who’s behind the keyboard but quantity of maps is not relevant, unless of course the goal was to hide poor, easy content behind an expanse of shiny looking visuals akin to a MMO scenery museum… Oh, I sort of described what Core feels like right there.
except that old maps had content that new maps do not:
free exploration with nothing being gated,
hearts, skill points and vistas (loved all 3, never liked dynamic events),
content being in more of a bite sized chunk making it easier to consume it. If I logged in on my alt and decided to do Sylvari starting area, it would probably take me an hour. I can’t set myself the same goal in HoT, due to locks behind masteries and dynamic event timers,
Old maps are less tedious. Fighting the same enemy with no mistakes done for over a minute is not fun, nor challenging. It’s tedious. When a map is too tedious, nobody likes it. Similarly to how Orr was very unpopulated and hated until the undead population was culled,
More maps = more environment change. Even in the same biodome, two maps didn’t look identical. You kind of lose that sense of visual progression when you’re stuck on the same 20% of a map for days.
I don’t get your point at all. It’s easy, bite-sized content. Agreed, and that only goes to the point I’m making how Core is just a pathetically easy content, packaged in a nice looking visual … which is REALLY cool if you just like to walk around and look at stuff, like a museum.
Hold on … so voracious alt players would be more likely to play multiple times through 15 maps of Core Tyria-like content than 4 maps of HoT-like content? If there is anything MORE stale than 4 maps of HoT-like content, it’s 15 maps of Core-like content. Of course, it depends on who’s behind the keyboard but quantity of maps is not relevant, unless of course the goal was to hide poor, easy content behind an expanse of shiny looking visuals akin to a MMO scenery museum… Oh, I sort of described what Core feels like right there.
except that old maps had content that new maps do not:
free exploration with nothing being gated,
hearts, skill points and vistas (loved all 3, never liked dynamic events),
content being in more of a bite sized chunk making it easier to consume it. If I logged in on my alt and decided to do Sylvari starting area, it would probably take me an hour. I can’t set myself the same goal in HoT, due to locks behind masteries and dynamic event timers,
Old maps are less tedious. Fighting the same enemy with no mistakes done for over a minute is not fun, nor challenging. It’s tedious. When a map is too tedious, nobody likes it. Similarly to how Orr was very unpopulated and hated until the undead population was culled,
More maps = more environment change. Even in the same biodome, two maps didn’t look identical. You kind of lose that sense of visual progression when you’re stuck on the same 20% of a map for days.
I don’t get your point at all. It’s easy, bite-sized content. Agreed, and that only goes to the point I’m making how Core is just a pathetically easy content, packaged in a nice looking visual … which is REALLY cool if you just like to walk around and look at stuff, like a museum, with the odd interruption due to a trash mob you handle with a few autos.
Subjective hindsight does not change reality. The majority preferred an expansion to more living story, and ANet saw that demand and reacted, despite their previous strategies which they accepted was not working.
As for price, the expansion price is in line with other expansions, and the expansion does not destroy older content. This is all noise though, what we are seeing here is endless ‘I don’t like HOT so therefore no one must like it’ which is evidently incorrect.
so dungeon loot nerfs, Spvp imbalance in regards to masteries, WvW imbalance in regards to masteries and changes made to small guilds, fractal loot nerfs and the requirement to have a HoT fractal mastery… That didn’t destroy any content, right?
I dont’ think the fractal loot has been nerfed at this point. Seems to me that I’m getting more from fractals than I used to get. Also the dungeon loot nerf is still more loot than we got from dungeons at launch. The content itself isn’t destroyed.
If you remove the countless grinds needed to acquire the handful of unique skins and abilities HoT can be completed in two hours. The story within Hot was embarrassing. Too many plot holes to even list.
I don’t get your point at all. It’s easy, bite-sized content. Agreed, and that only goes to the point I’m making how Core is just a pathetically easy content, packaged in a nice looking visual … which is REALLY cool if you just like to walk around and look at stuff, like a museum.
which is how open world is always in MMOs? Accessible to all?
That being said, I already said that HoT is not hard, just tedius.
Hold on … so voracious alt players would be more likely to play multiple times through 15 maps of Core Tyria-like content than 4 maps of HoT-like content? If there is anything MORE stale than 4 maps of HoT-like content, it’s 15 maps of Core-like content. Of course, it depends on who’s behind the keyboard but quantity of maps is not relevant, unless of course the goal was to hide poor, easy content behind an expanse of shiny looking visuals akin to a MMO scenery museum… Oh, I sort of described what Core feels like right there.
False dichotomy. It doesn’t have to be either 4 HoT-like maps or 15 Tyria-like maps. There’s a whole range of possibilities beyond those two.
Sticking to the idea of 15 maps, how about: 11 Tyria-like maps AND 4 HoT type maps. Or 15 maps of increasing difficulty with meta event maps thrown in at some interval as the story advances the player through the maps.
Or maybe 15 maps is a bit too much to ask. Let’s have 8 then, half of them being HoT-like driven by meta events, and 4 are just as “hard” but offering a Tyria-like exploration options and events.
I find it quite amusing how people are throwing the original GW2 under the bus in a futile attempt to assault people’s opinions on HoT. It makes me wonder why they even played “poor”, “easy”, “stale” GW2 at all. And it also makes me wonder what makes them think opinions can be argued with. My perception of the luke-warm excrement that is HoT will not budge because of anything someone writes. ANet is the only party that can change it, by effecting change in HoT.
Just for reference
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/44acg5/guildwars_2_heart_of_thorns_won_the_best_online/
Big fail guys, huge flop, look @ Anet firing people like Carbine instead of greenlighting another expansion.
If Legend of Zelda came out tomorrow, the usual
forum dwellers would go nuts about the need to
“grind” to get exp, new swords, new potions etc
forum dwellers would go nuts about the need to
“grind” to get exp, new swords, new potions etc
Winning an award when no other game is good enough is nothing to celebrate. Where is GW2 competition? Still doesn’t mean that the current state of the game is healthy.
RP enthusiast