Guild Wars 2

I am eagerly looking forward to playing Heart of Thorns, I will not be looking forward to playing the new Revenant profession because of the lack of diversity in the profession.. From a dev post i read earlier, it seems that the customization capacity of the Revenant will be the players ability to choose 2 of 5 “legends” and that is about it. The healing skill, the elite, and the utility skills will be forced onto you and you will not be able to swap them with the exception that you might be able to switch one utility skill (4 utility skills for 3 spaces).

This is the confirmed information right now, but what if this also extends into weapon choices? Is the Hammer only be usable with the dwarf legendary? or can it be used with Malik? And vis versa, can we use the mace/axe with the dwarf legendary “stance”? It would seem that weapons are also tied to each legendary “stance”.

So it seems to me the only way to differentiate your Revenant from someone else is your option of legendary “stances”, one utility slot, and the choice of traits your will choose (but to be frank, you will choose the traits that support your legendary).

I am a big supporter on the option to be able to differentiate your character in an MMO, or else everyone is a cookie-cutter of each other. I know there are “meta” builds that a lot of people follow anyways and don’t care about their character in relation to another, but I do and I’m sure I’m not alone. So I’m not looking forward to the Revenant, I’m looking forward to my Great sword necro!

Elias.4028:

I am eagerly looking forward to playing Heart of Thorns, I will not be looking forward to playing the new Revenant profession because of the lack of diversity in the profession.. From a dev post i read earlier, it seems that the customization capacity of the Revenant will be the players ability to choose 2 of 5 “legends” and that is about it. The healing skill, the elite, and the utility skills will be forced onto you and you will not be able to swap them with the exception that you might be able to switch one utility skill (4 utility skills for 3 spaces).

This does seem to be the case at the moment however the devs are still looking into this. It is not fully set in stone.

Elias.4028:

This is the confirmed information right now, but what if this also extends into weapon choices? Is the Hammer only be usable with the dwarf legendary? or can it be used with Malik? And vis versa, can we use the mace/axe with the dwarf legendary “stance”? It would seem that weapons are also tied to each legendary “stance”.

Nope, wrong. Weapons are not tied to your legend at al. Though of course it might turn out that certain weapons combine better with certain legends than other weapons.

(but to be frank, you will choose the traits that support your legendary).

A dev quote seems to suggest that you will have a reason to invest in corruption when choosing Jalis and to invest in Retribution when choosing Mallyx. Whether that’s true or not remains to be seen of course.

To recap, the choice seems to be 1) choose 2 from 4 or 5 legends, 2) choose two 1-handed weapons or 1 two-handed weapons from an unknown number of weapon options, 3) choose traits, 4) choose equipment and 5) choose whether to use your specialization or not. All in all it is somewhat less than other professions, though it’s not as terrible as you make it sound.

I don’t think that weapons will be tied Tor legends. In the PoI video the revenant switched stances without any effect on the weapons (no weapon swap)

It may be that some weapons are better used with some legends but I think the choice of the weapon(s) in combination with the choice of the legends will give you some diversity. Actually I’m looking forward to the profession and I will try it … If I like I’ll play

But you’re right you are not the only one who likes to play it “the own way” :-)

xXLuggXx.4018:

I don’t think that weapons will be tied Tor legends. In the PoI video the revenant switched stances without any effect on the weapons (no weapon swap)

It may be that some weapons are better used with some legends but I think the choice of the weapon(s) in combination with the choice of the legends will give you some diversity. Actually I’m looking forward to the profession and I will try it … If I like I’ll play

But you’re right you are not the only one who likes to play it “the own way” :-)

Pretty much this, it seems that the weapons we have seen are ‘designed’ to complement certain legends, that in no way will limit what weapons (out of those available) what you choose to run. Example say you love axe/axe and dislike the legends associated with the mainhand axe or the offhand you could still run King Dwarf and Lengend-Not-Yet-Shown-to-Us (who was designed to end worlds with greatsword) if you so chose.

I will make Revenant for sure, I can only compete with other classes if I understand them.
This said it will take a lot for revenant to become my most used class.
Also 8 specializations to learn as well.

I wish they’d told us bit more about the weapons.
Ranged hammer seems quite cool but I doubt it will be his main POWER based DPS.
I am not that fond of playing condi’s at the moment. I hope Rev will have Power weapon

Diovid.9506:

To recap, the choice seems to be 1) choose 2 from 4 or 5 legends, 2) choose two 1-handed weapons or 1 two-handed weapons from an unknown number of weapon options, 3) choose traits, 4) choose equipment and 5) choose whether to use your specialization or not. All in all it is somewhat less than other professions, though it’s not as terrible as you make it sound.

1. I believe there will be 5 legends because all professions have 5 different utility skill sets. So a Revenants will be able to use only 8 of 20 utility skills because of the system in place now. If there are only 4 legends the problem will be worse.

2. I was wrong about weapons sticking to a legend, but with the current setup Revenants will get half the weapon options that other professions can use at any given time. At least Elementalists and Engineers have attunements and kits that they can use to gain more weapon options. Maybe the Revenant will have the same thing, dunno yet.

3,4,5 are normal.

It still seems the largest and more definitive way one Revenant stands out from another are the two Legends “stances” they will choose. I still think once HoT is released, this will be the standard in which Revenants are differentiated by, I hope I am wrong.

Right now when I play my shout warrior I can swap the third shout for Bulls Rush to get another gap closer. On my medi Guardian I can swap my third medi for Wall of Reflection for projectile defense and the other players won’t know until I use it. When players fight Revenants, after they get used to the different legends you know what to expect. This might seem unimportant to some players but it does take away a lot of dynamism from the game, and the profession becomes very static.

I’m not sure I follow the logic from the first paragraph, so please forgive me.

From what we know so far, no, the Revenant may not be as flexible as an Engineer or Elementalist.

However, the Revenant looks to have the same amount of skills as all the other professions in actual game play. Each Legend may not have 25+ skills to select from, but are you really using all of those abilities on whatever your current profession is anyway?

In the case of the Revenant you make use of Utility skill swap instead of weapon swap. You still have access to 15 abilities just like everyone else. How is that less customization? How is this profession any worse, given current context, than any other profession with cookie cutter builds (since all professions have them)? We still don’t know how the Revenant will unlock the skills per Legend either. Maybe you unlock Mallyx with a smaller number of options for heals, then 7-9 skills, and maybe a couple of utilities. Maybe you unlock only 5 skills for your bar. We don’t know.

TL;DR: Too little information so far to completely write off this profession.

Source

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Nike.2631:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

The skills on the right half of your bar are tied to the legend which you are currently invoking.

Lets see if I can phrase this unambiguously:

When I am invoking Bob the Mighty, will I have a Bob-themed pool of skills to choose from when filling out my right-hand tray, or does channeling Bob the Mighty give me an absolutely specific set of 5 skills without variation from any other Revenant invoking Bob?

I realize the answer may be different for buttons 6 and 0 than it is for buttons 7, 8, & 9.

That is not set in stone yet and something we are deciding still.

@Nashur It has less customization, not buttons to press. This class (in its current iteration*) will have by far the least amount of flexibility in building. Not only does it have 1 weapon at a time, it’s legends have pre-determined utilities and so on. Betond our legends we have no control over our utilities. So a Revenant might sit on 2-3 total utility slots that they feel are mostly useless to them because they have no flexibility to chose otherwise.

Consider any other class. Many times classes will take a mix of utility types. Mesmer will mix glamour skills with clone abilities. Or on a more extreme level, an engineer has several tool kits they can use with their gadgets and elixirs and they’re interchangeable and make totally unique builds.

Revenant, if you see his weapon and stance you know every ability he has without question. He may very well even have several useless ones to his build because hes completely locked into them. That’s the lack of customization.

Chances are weapons will be “best” for certain legends, like the condition-based mace/axe for Mallyx, so even our weapon-to-legend choices are limited, let alone being locked into non-interchangeable utilities.

They will just end up very predictable and static which takes out 90% of the fun in making an awesome build. There’s little trial in error with set ups because there isn’t much choice involved.

@ronpierce, gotcha.

However, the profession isn’t finished so it may not be as restrictive as it looks. Also, the current idea really puts pressure on the developers to ensure that locked-in skills are not worthless.

The other thing about the Revenant will be how the energy resource works with the utilities. That may make the profession relatively powerful for what it gets. It could also fall completely on its face.

It is still too early to write off though.

ronpierce.2760:

@Nashur It has less customization, not buttons to press. This class (in its current iteration*) will have by far the least amount of flexibility in building. Not only does it have 1 weapon at a time, it’s legends have pre-determined utilities and so on. Betond our legends we have no control over our utilities. So a Revenant might sit on 2-3 total utility slots that they feel are mostly useless to them because they have no flexibility to chose otherwise.

Consider any other class. Many times classes will take a mix of utility types. Mesmer will mix glamour skills with clone abilities. Or on a more extreme level, an engineer has several tool kits they can use with their gadgets and elixirs and they’re interchangeable and make totally unique builds.

Revenant, if you see his weapon and stance you know every ability he has without question. He may very well even have several useless ones to his build because hes completely locked into them. That’s the lack of customization.

Chances are weapons will be “best” for certain legends, like the condition-based mace/axe for Mallyx, so even our weapon-to-legend choices are limited, let alone being locked into non-interchangeable utilities.

They will just end up very predictable and static which takes out 90% of the fun in making an awesome build. There’s little trial in error with set ups because there isn’t much choice involved.

This is why I have suggested that if the Revenant is going to have a limited action bar, than at least make the Trait System for Revenants more unique from other professions, by allowing them to choose from more traits, and even customize minor traits as well, and reduce the number of useless traits like other classes normally get. No point of fall damage traits taking up a useful trait slot where something more useful could have gone.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/BIG-IF-Rev-Utilities-are-locked-to-channel/first#post4834201

IDK, man. I’d play the prof. before deciding you don’t ever want to play it. They haven’t even finalized the last legends yet.

There isn’t a prof. that I don’t like in this game. There are some I like more than others, but I like them all. I’ve never played an MMO before that I felt that way about.

Elias.4028:

the lack of diversity in the profession..

The lack of diversity?

You realize with 5 different Legends that’s a diversity of 10 different combinations and without any knowledge of the full scope of these utilities, we can’t say with any confirmation that it will jeopardize the class to follow skill rotations? There’s diversity in this class, plenty of it, it’s just a new kind of diversity we’ve not seen before in GW2. Try it before you knock it, that’s my gameplan.

ronpierce.2760:

Revenant, if you see his weapon and stance you know every ability he has without question.

You can also see any other profession’s weapon and if they have signets, you’ll see those too – and they will allow you to know abilities without question. Further than that, you can highly assume most builds are following a similar pattern (because there are only so many effective builds once you get into the competitive scope of this game)…half the time when discussing builds, people don’t even need to clarify what traits they chose – just the number in each trait line.

It follows a pretty similar structure for the Revenant (albeit with a bit less choice, that choice being offset with two Legends to choose from on a whim). You won’t know their trait spreadout and you might not know what their other Legend is. Go in thinking you can knocklock some Revenant only to see him pull Jalis on you and ruin your attack…yeah, Revenant has just as many choices as any other class.

Anything else and you’re delving into territory with logic so manipulative that it’s not really a valid discussion.

Misinformation and assumptions aside, I don’t plan to play a revenant. They don’t seem like fun to me. Lots of management that I don’t want to deal with. Deal with resources, cooldowns, buffs and conditions. Especially with the demon form. I am hoping specializations will be fun for me.

Ralanost.8913:

Misinformation and assumptions aside, I don’t plan to play a revenant. They don’t seem like fun to me. Lots of management that I don’t want to deal with. Deal with resources, cooldowns, buffs and conditions. Especially with the demon form. I am hoping specializations will be fun for me.

Yeah, that definitely seems like one reason why I might not enjoy Revenant…but you never know. I’ve played a lot of WoW characters I thought I wouldn’t enjoy and ended up loving them. I’m really interested in how energy pips will work – despite having tons of tomes saved up for Heart of Thorns, my first Revenant will be leveled [mostly] via in-game exploration so I can get a feel for the class. Everyone who starts and rushes to 80 with tomes is, in my opinion, going to waste 80 tomes to not have a feel for the class at all. If I don’t like how much management it takes, I don’t – there’s nothing that can really be said to counter flavor.

I just find this “objective reasoning” to be a whole load of crap. There’s no objective reason to not play the Revenant (but certainly a lot of subjective ones).

Well, one interview describes a skill of the Jalis-Form that is not shown in the PoI – so there is still hope that every legend gives you a little pool of skills.

(Namely the article describes a rune the Rev can cast whichs falls from the skies and create a savezone that your enemies cant enter – but probably that skill is long gone or reworked into the roadskill, even if the dont sound close.)

Personally I would prefer to shift the system and make the weaponskills freely choosable. This would solve any kind of customizationproblems and the weaponskills are not really stilistic bond to the weapon but more like "cool ways to play with the mist).

If thats not possible make at least traits for the revenant that let us customize our char.

Im also really interested in how this topic effects the pvp play of the revenant. All you do is to pick “3 Weapons (1 real one and 2 legends)” and that determine every skill you can choose. Arent you really predictable for everyone else? (Not a pvp pro so maybe someone can answer me this)

Elias.4028:

From a dev post i read earlier, it seems that the customization capacity of the Revenant will be the players ability to choose 2 of 5 “legends” and that is about it.

There is no such dev post, the only developer post on the subject states that the decision has not been made yet, and as such it is still open to feedback.

I’ll play a Revenant once I see more Ritualist inspired skills but for now, I just have to patiently wait for a much longer write up on all the weapons, legends and skills that the revenant will have and then I will decide.

It’s good that they make professions different, and the other ~8 are already overloaded with little choices.. I for one prefer when skills come in sets and builds are easy to put together, instead of having the vast majority of random builds very sub-optimal, so happy to get a profession with a bit more fixed loadout, with more big choices and fewer small choices.

Gomes.5643:

All you do is to pick “3 Weapons (1 real one and 2 legends)” and that determine every skill you can choose. Arent you really predictable for everyone else? (Not a pvp pro so maybe someone can answer me this)

I would say not any more predictable than most PvP as it stands – it’s about the fluidity and efficiency of skill use, because in high end PvP you can almost rest assured that you know what a target’s build is (or close enough to think it through). Secondly, we don’t know if you’ll be able to know what their other Legend is, which they can switch to on a dime in combat – nor do you know their traits.

So, no, it won’t make the Revenant any more predictable or restricted than any other class in the game.

Adrian Guardian.9480:

It’s good that they make professions different, and the other ~8 are already overloaded with little choices.. I for one prefer when skills come in sets and builds are easy to put together, instead of having the vast majority of random builds very sub-optimal, so happy to get a profession with a bit more fixed loadout, with more big choices and fewer small choices.

I feel the same way. In many ways the Revenant is like a reverse Eng/Ele. Instead of a large number of specialized skills it has a smaller number of more flexible skills.

A lot of high level Eng/Ele play consists of rapidly switching through Att/Kits using one or two skills from the skill bar before going to the next skill set. Due to long CDs they often can’t sit in one skill set for two long.

Revenant has rapid skill usage as well except it’s with skills that can be used rapidly in succession with a variety of effects.

If you played D&D is seems very much like the old Sorceror v Wizard debate.

For the record I always preferred the Sorceror.

Maxzero.4032:

Adrian Guardian.9480:

It’s good that they make professions different, and the other ~8 are already overloaded with little choices.. I for one prefer when skills come in sets and builds are easy to put together, instead of having the vast majority of random builds very sub-optimal, so happy to get a profession with a bit more fixed loadout, with more big choices and fewer small choices.

I feel the same way. In many ways the Revenant is like a reverse Eng/Ele. Instead of a large number of specialized skills it has a smaller number of more flexible skills.

A lot of high level Eng/Ele play consists of rapidly switching through Att/Kits using one or two skills from the skill bar before going to the next skill set. Due to long CDs they often can’t sit in one skill set for two long.

Revenant has rapid skill usage as well except it’s with skills that can be used rapidly in succession with a variety of effects.

If you played D&D is seems very much like the old Sorceror v Wizard debate.

For the record I always preferred the Sorceror.

You’re right about ele and engi.

I did play D&D (neverwinter nights). Never liked the wizard. Sure enjoyed the sorcerer.

@OP

You don’t have to talk like you’re staging a protest just to say you don’t like the new class.

If you don’t like what you get, don’t play it. But also you haven’t seen the completed version of the Revenant so you don’t know what to expect. They didn’t even show all 5 trait lines in the play video.

What’s the big deal making this thread just because you don’t like the Revenant? So just don’t play one.

I don’t like a couple of the classes and I just don’t play them. I don’t come on the forum to tell everyone why.

Elias.4028:

I am eagerly looking forward to playing Heart of Thorns, I will not be looking forward to playing the new Revenant profession because of the lack of diversity in the profession.

Totally wrong.

Revenants have access to twice the number of utilities as other professions PLUS most have no cooldowns. The only currently known exception has an extremely short 5 second cooldown.

What does this mean?

It means that energy permitting you can use or not whichever utilities and or elites that you like.

Build up your energy to 100 on one legend and you can drop your elite twice, switch to your other legend (50 energy refill on swap) and drop its elite. No other profession can do that.

The thing you have to wrap your head around is revenants are less about deciding ahead of time which utilities / elite you’ll use every fight and settling into a rotation you mindlessly execute ad nauseum. They’re more about deciding which utilities / elites they’ll use as the fight unfolds. Of course you’d still have to freedom to settle into a rotation with your revenant if that’s what floats your boat.

The only other GW2 profession which comes close to matching this freedom and diversity is thief.

Gomes.5643:

Well, one interview describes a skill of the Jalis-Form that is not shown in the PoI – so there is still hope that every legend gives you a little pool of skills.

(Namely the article describes a rune the Rev can cast whichs falls from the skies and create a savezone that your enemies cant enter – but probably that skill is long gone or reworked into the roadskill, even if the dont sound close.)

Personally I would prefer to shift the system and make the weaponskills freely choosable. This would solve any kind of customizationproblems and the weaponskills are not really stilistic bond to the weapon but more like "cool ways to play with the mist).

If thats not possible make at least traits for the revenant that let us customize our char.

Im also really interested in how this topic effects the pvp play of the revenant. All you do is to pick “3 Weapons (1 real one and 2 legends)” and that determine every skill you can choose. Arent you really predictable for everyone else? (Not a pvp pro so maybe someone can answer me this)

where that article?

Caeledh.5437:

Elias.4028:

I am eagerly looking forward to playing Heart of Thorns, I will not be looking forward to playing the new Revenant profession because of the lack of diversity in the profession.

Totally wrong.

Revenants have access to twice the number of utilities as other professions PLUS most have no cooldowns. The only currently known exception has an extremely short 5 second cooldown.

What does this mean?

It means that energy permitting you can use or not whichever utilities and or elites that you like.

Build up your energy to 100 on one legend and you can drop your elite twice, switch to your other legend (50 energy refill on swap) and drop its elite. No other profession can do that.

The thing you have to wrap your head around is revenants are less about deciding ahead of time which utilities / elite you’ll use every fight and settling into a rotation you mindlessly execute ad nauseum. They’re more about deciding which utilities / elites they’ll use as the fight unfolds. Of course you’d still have to freedom to settle into a rotation with your revenant if that’s what floats your boat.

The only other GW2 profession which comes close to matching this freedom and diversity is thief.

Revenant’s Utilites/Heal/Elite is the equivalent of normal classes’ Weapon skills.
They get two sets of those 5 skills, and the rest of the 5 skills are fixed.

Only difference is which side of the bar the skills are fixed.

Knighthonor.4061:

Caeledh.5437:

Elias.4028:

I am eagerly looking forward to playing Heart of Thorns, I will not be looking forward to playing the new Revenant profession because of the lack of diversity in the profession.

Totally wrong.

Revenants have access to twice the number of utilities as other professions PLUS most have no cooldowns. The only currently known exception has an extremely short 5 second cooldown.

What does this mean?

It means that energy permitting you can use or not whichever utilities and or elites that you like.

Build up your energy to 100 on one legend and you can drop your elite twice, switch to your other legend (50 energy refill on swap) and drop its elite. No other profession can do that.

The thing you have to wrap your head around is revenants are less about deciding ahead of time which utilities / elite you’ll use every fight and settling into a rotation you mindlessly execute ad nauseum. They’re more about deciding which utilities / elites they’ll use as the fight unfolds. Of course you’d still have to freedom to settle into a rotation with your revenant if that’s what floats your boat.

The only other GW2 profession which comes close to matching this freedom and diversity is thief.

Revenant’s Utilites/Heal/Elite is the equivalent of normal classes’ Weapon skills.
They get two sets of those 5 skills, and the rest of the 5 skills are fixed.

Only difference is which side of the bar the skills are fixed.

Repeating yourself does not make you any less incorrect, it’s already been stated a half dozen times in this thread and many others that the developers have stated no such thing, in fact they’ve specifically stated that it isn’t true, though through future development it could be.

And since it seems to be the only way to get people to stop spreading assumptive bullcrap here’s the ONLY developer quote on the issue.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Nike.2631:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

The skills on the right half of your bar are tied to the legend which you are currently invoking.

Lets see if I can phrase this unambiguously:

When I am invoking Bob the Mighty, will I have a Bob-themed pool of skills to choose from when filling out my right-hand tray, or does channeling Bob the Mighty give me an absolutely specific set of 5 skills without variation from any other Revenant invoking Bob?

I realize the answer may be different for buttons 6 and 0 than it is for buttons 7, 8, & 9.

That is not set in stone yet and something we are deciding still.

Conncept.7638:

Knighthonor.4061:

Caeledh.5437:

Elias.4028:

I am eagerly looking forward to playing Heart of Thorns, I will not be looking forward to playing the new Revenant profession because of the lack of diversity in the profession.

Totally wrong.

Revenants have access to twice the number of utilities as other professions PLUS most have no cooldowns. The only currently known exception has an extremely short 5 second cooldown.

What does this mean?

It means that energy permitting you can use or not whichever utilities and or elites that you like.

Build up your energy to 100 on one legend and you can drop your elite twice, switch to your other legend (50 energy refill on swap) and drop its elite. No other profession can do that.

The thing you have to wrap your head around is revenants are less about deciding ahead of time which utilities / elite you’ll use every fight and settling into a rotation you mindlessly execute ad nauseum. They’re more about deciding which utilities / elites they’ll use as the fight unfolds. Of course you’d still have to freedom to settle into a rotation with your revenant if that’s what floats your boat.

The only other GW2 profession which comes close to matching this freedom and diversity is thief.

Revenant’s Utilites/Heal/Elite is the equivalent of normal classes’ Weapon skills.
They get two sets of those 5 skills, and the rest of the 5 skills are fixed.

Only difference is which side of the bar the skills are fixed.

Repeating yourself does not make you any less incorrect, it’s already been stated a half dozen times in this thread and many others that the developers have stated no such thing, in fact they’ve specifically stated that it isn’t true, though through future development it could be.

And since it seems to be the only way to get people to stop spreading assumptive bullcrap here’s the ONLY developer quote on the issue.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Nike.2631:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

The skills on the right half of your bar are tied to the legend which you are currently invoking.

Lets see if I can phrase this unambiguously:

When I am invoking Bob the Mighty, will I have a Bob-themed pool of skills to choose from when filling out my right-hand tray, or does channeling Bob the Mighty give me an absolutely specific set of 5 skills without variation from any other Revenant invoking Bob?

I realize the answer may be different for buttons 6 and 0 than it is for buttons 7, 8, & 9.

That is not set in stone yet and something we are deciding still.

That isnt the only Developer statements.

You do realize there been interviews and other statements right?

Conncept.7638:

Repeating yourself does not make you any less incorrect, it’s already been stated a half dozen times in this thread and many others that the developers have stated no such thing, in fact they’ve specifically stated that it isn’t true, though through future development it could be.

To be completely fair, it has been described in some articles exactly as he put it. If you look at the various revenant wiki entries now, what he said seems roughly accurate.

Knighthonor.4061:

Revenant’s Utilites/Heal/Elite is the equivalent of normal classes’ Weapon skills.
They get two sets of those 5 skills, and the rest of the 5 skills are fixed.

Only difference is which side of the bar the skills are fixed.

It’s not the only difference. Using energy instead of cooldowns makes revenants fundamentally different from every other profession except thieves. So reverse thief, maybe.

I’d also exclude healing from what you said because apart from having one for each legend (probably half strength compared to other profs) they seem pretty much the same as every other prof.

Having more variety and options isn’t actually the same as having more viable builds. If they make each legend so that it works well and synergizes with at least one other legend, better if it’s two, then the lack of options isn’t really bad. It would be nice if they’d at least add enough stuff to have an option with each. Even if it was only two heals. That would be more healsthan any other class of course.

Maybe have a single nonlegend heal, so no matter what you have slotted you can choose to use the other heal. That shouldn’t be so terrible.

Unfortunately elites are out, since Elites are kind of the culmination of the Legend mechanic and for each case it is channeling your legend. It would be kind of strange to let you not have that slotted.

Knighthonor.4061:

Conncept.7638:

Knighthonor.4061:

Caeledh.5437:

Elias.4028:

I am eagerly looking forward to playing Heart of Thorns, I will not be looking forward to playing the new Revenant profession because of the lack of diversity in the profession.

Totally wrong.

Revenants have access to twice the number of utilities as other professions PLUS most have no cooldowns. The only currently known exception has an extremely short 5 second cooldown.

What does this mean?

It means that energy permitting you can use or not whichever utilities and or elites that you like.

Build up your energy to 100 on one legend and you can drop your elite twice, switch to your other legend (50 energy refill on swap) and drop its elite. No other profession can do that.

The thing you have to wrap your head around is revenants are less about deciding ahead of time which utilities / elite you’ll use every fight and settling into a rotation you mindlessly execute ad nauseum. They’re more about deciding which utilities / elites they’ll use as the fight unfolds. Of course you’d still have to freedom to settle into a rotation with your revenant if that’s what floats your boat.

The only other GW2 profession which comes close to matching this freedom and diversity is thief.

Revenant’s Utilites/Heal/Elite is the equivalent of normal classes’ Weapon skills.
They get two sets of those 5 skills, and the rest of the 5 skills are fixed.

Only difference is which side of the bar the skills are fixed.

Repeating yourself does not make you any less incorrect, it’s already been stated a half dozen times in this thread and many others that the developers have stated no such thing, in fact they’ve specifically stated that it isn’t true, though through future development it could be.

And since it seems to be the only way to get people to stop spreading assumptive bullcrap here’s the ONLY developer quote on the issue.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Nike.2631:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

The skills on the right half of your bar are tied to the legend which you are currently invoking.

Lets see if I can phrase this unambiguously:

When I am invoking Bob the Mighty, will I have a Bob-themed pool of skills to choose from when filling out my right-hand tray, or does channeling Bob the Mighty give me an absolutely specific set of 5 skills without variation from any other Revenant invoking Bob?

I realize the answer may be different for buttons 6 and 0 than it is for buttons 7, 8, & 9.

That is not set in stone yet and something we are deciding still.

That isnt the only Developer statements.

You do realize there been interviews and other statements right?

Yes because you’re completely non-expository parroted statements of “No you’re wrong and I’m right” sound like such reliable sources of information.

And no, that is their only statement concerning the potential launch state of the Revevant, which was the subject of the thread in the first place. The OP specifically stated he was looking forward to HoTs launch excepting this rumor about how the Revenant will work.

Now if you want to grasp at straws, they have had interviews concerning the upcoming expos, wherein the Reverent will be demo’d with set utility bars for two legends. However it has been made abundantly clear everywhere they have talked about this that that function is set in stone solely for those conventions because that is the state in which the class is stable enough to be demo’d at all, not because it is all the work they have put in to the class thus far, or because it is representative of how the class will operate upon the expansion’s release.

Caeledh.5437:

Build up your energy to 100 on one legend and you can drop your elite twice, switch to your other legend (50 energy refill on swap) and drop its elite. No other profession can do that.

This is a thing you could do. It would be silly and pointless, but you could do it. “Silly and pointless?” you may ask. Yes, the elite for each legend is to channel that legend and become it. The elite is a toggle that drains energy. Now there may be benefits to toggling it on and off then on and off again, but it’s not the same thing as, say, an ele dropping their elite glyph, then swapping attunement and dropping it again.

Kal Spiro.9745:

This is a thing you could do. It would be silly and pointless, but you could do it.

Maybe, maybe not.

You could be enjoying a brief lull where your enemies are almost dead so there’s no point in wasting energy on big attacks to finish them off and more enemies are inbound. In that case you might allow your energy to build up and then immediately drop three elites on your fresh foes.

I doubt it would be something you’d do often. It’s an extreme. I picked the extreme to illustrate my point which is that taking cooldowns out of the equation means you can’t judge the potentially small pool of utilities, possibly with no choice in them, the same way you do other professions.

Unless we can swap out the healing/utility/elite skills, I probably won’t be playing Revenant either. It’s bad enough that our weapon skills are locked, but to have the rest of the stuff locked as well is awful design. I wish I could be as optimistic as some of you but I don’t see Anet suddenly changing their mind and adding more skills.

I love how people complain about the lack of flexibility in how to build/play a revenant, while right now most people always go for the same cookie-cutter flavor-of-the-month builds (e.g. “meta”). And for good reasons. Many classes have only a handful of good skills and only a handful of good builds which is why most people gravitate towards the the same builds.

So while people complain about the flexibility of the revanant, many people don’t realize that the current classes aren’t all that flexible either. Having the option to play a sub-par build isn’t really an option and the amount of good builds for the current classes are few and far between.

Hell, the revenant might actually end up being more flexible than our current classes. If each ‘legend’ is balanced properly and brings something new to the table then we’ll be able to play around more with our traits and gear in combination with different ‘legends’ and create more diverse revenant builds than our current builds for our current classes.

Conncept.7638:

Elias.4028:

From a dev post i read earlier, it seems that the customization capacity of the Revenant will be the players ability to choose 2 of 5 “legends” and that is about it.

There is no such dev post, the only developer post on the subject states that the decision has not been made yet, and as such it is still open to feedback.

It wasn’t from a post, it was from an interview. When asked how many legends there are a developer said people can look at existing skill sets to get an idea. Well every class has 5 different utility skill sets, so my guess is 5.

Caeledh.5437:

The thing you have to wrap your head around is revenants are less about deciding ahead of time which utilities / elite you’ll use every fight and settling into a rotation you mindlessly execute ad nauseum. They’re more about deciding which utilities / elites they’ll use as the fight unfolds. Of course you’d still have to freedom to settle into a rotation with your revenant if that’s what floats your boat.

The only other GW2 profession which comes close to matching this freedom and diversity is thief.

I’m not talking about rotation, I’m talking about build diversity. It seems that the biggest way to distinguish one Revenant from another will be the choice of legends you pick. And once you pick those two legends pick a weapon set and that’s it. Not a very deep customizable system. Revenants can’t do something like Guardian Mace/focus + scepter/shield with two concentrations and a shout with tome of vengeance, or the same build with different utility skills or slightly different weapon combinations.
You are set with what the legend gives you.

People are already screaming about meta builds and how most professions only have a few number of competitive choices anyways. Build diversity isn’t about being competitive, its about experimenting to see what’s cool. And guess what to all you “meta” screamers, “metas” are NOT set it stone and changes constantly, why? because people experiment and find new “metas” to replace the old ones!

I believe Revenants are going to be one of the most inflexible and static professions when it comes to diversity. Once a legend combo will be deemed the most powerful, or “meta”, unless the develops change the games mechanics, that will probably stay that way consistently.

Balance is also an issue. If some of the legend skills suck (which will likely be the case) then we’re screwed because they’re locked. This is the same problem the weapon system has. For example; I’d love to use off hand axe on my Warrior, but I don’t because it sucks and I can’t swap out the skills for something better. I really, really hope the devs change their minds about this skill locking crap.

This thread seems to make sense, actually after seeing videos of this new class seems like it dosen’t have much viability and will probably be 1 or 2 builds considering everything. I dont think Anet took into consideration that players like having different builds not just use the same build all the time… honestly i would like more then one pve build and 1 pvp build also note that some players just suck with certain builds and or weapons and the traits that ive seen so far for this class look just like the new traits that were added for each class, grandmaster traits should MAKE the build not just add some boons or something… whatever i am excited for this class i just wish they would notice that everyone wants something different, and that we get bored with 1 build. I love my mesmer but i dont even play it anymore because the lack of grandmaster traits that are fun or add something great to the class that MAKES it original or makes it seem like the only way somebody can do this is with that classes grandmaster trait.
Also the fact that they can only use 1 weapon was very boring even less viability because the weapons look like they make this class good and using the same weapon for the same build is just boring… note that i doubt you can use certain things with certain builds, like condition wep skills would be usless on a non condition build…

Conncept.7638:

Yes because you’re completely non-expository parroted statements of “No you’re wrong and I’m right” sound like such reliable sources of information.

This has made my day. Cheers

Caeledh.5437:

Kal Spiro.9745:

This is a thing you could do. It would be silly and pointless, but you could do it.

Maybe, maybe not.

You could be enjoying a brief lull where your enemies are almost dead so there’s no point in wasting energy on big attacks to finish them off and more enemies are inbound. In that case you might allow your energy to build up and then immediately drop three elites on your fresh foes.

I doubt it would be something you’d do often. It’s an extreme. I picked the extreme to illustrate my point which is that taking cooldowns out of the equation means you can’t judge the potentially small pool of utilities, possibly with no choice in them, the same way you do other professions.

I think you’re missing what my point was, assuming you read it at all. Right now we only know of one elite for two legends. Based on how the legends work, though, it is reasonable to think that, if nothing else is, elites will be static to their legend because in each case the elite has been to channel the legend itself. In both cases the elite power was a toggle, not a big effect like you seem to be expecting. It changes how your character functions while gradually draining your energy. So of course you will use it often, and turn it off as well.

Using the Revenant elite is not like using the elite in any other class. It isn’t like a human necromancer summoning hounds of Balthazar, then swapping into Death Shroud and hitting Lich (as if that were a thing that could happen anyway.)

The Revenant can turn it on and off as much as it wants for as long as it can keep it up.

Kal Spiro.9745:

In both cases the elite power was a toggle, not a big effect like you seem to be expecting.

Jalis elite is not a toggle skill. Its a skills similiar to endure pain (at least it seems to be this way as wolf damage was 0 during that time) with casttime. A buff that lasted 5 sec and you had to recast it again.

Scoobaniec.9561:

Kal Spiro.9745:

In both cases the elite power was a toggle, not a big effect like you seem to be expecting.

Jalis elite is not a toggle skill. Its a skills similiar to endure pain (at least it seems to be this way as wolf damage was 0 during that time) with casttime. A buff that lasted 5 sec and you had to recast it again.

Perhaps I misunderstood what I saw and what they were saying. If that’s the case, though, that lends more to the idea that there will ultimately be options than that there won’t be. Otherwise why make them so vastly different like that.

It also lends the question, what about Mistfire Wolves and racial skills.

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/627401366 < 29;39

As for racial skills etc you should be able to swap current legend skills with them. Howered i dont know why ppl keep ask for it as racial skills sux and i havent seen anyone using em either ingame.

Btw. are Revenant at pax going to have all legends, weapons and traits or just a demo version like we saw in poi?

I was pretty disappointed by what we’ve seen so far as well. It does seem like the traitlines, weapons, and legends are too closely tied to make for much diversity. It’s too bad they can’t be a little more modular.

Then again, we haven’t seen it all fleshed out yet, so who knows how it’s actually going to play out. I remember when we first got to see the Ele and it looked like it was designed to heavily invest in one attunement and end up camped out there. But look at the standard D/D setup, where you heavily invest in water but actually spend a lot of time between fire and earth, setting up fields and blasting them.

Guess we’ll just have to wait and see.

Scoobaniec.9561:

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/627401366 < 29;39

As for racial skills etc you should be able to swap current legend skills with them. Howered i dont know why ppl keep ask for it as racial skills sux and i havent seen anyone using em either ingame.

Btw. are Revenant at pax going to have all legends, weapons and traits or just a demo version like we saw in poi?

It doesn’t matter if they’re any good. It has to do with how the game was designed. All characters of a race get their racial skills, regardless of class. All Charr can summon two Charr of their legion. All Humans can summon Hounds of Balthazar. All Sylvari can summon the Druid spirit. All Asura can summon Golems. All Norn can do whatever Norn do.

If Revenants can’t do these things then it lends the question of why not. Why did they build this class outside of the design of all the other classes, which take into account their race along with their class.

People keep saying that that (most) other classes get two weapon skill bars so it’s equal to Revenants two utility skill bars. Thars not true individual utility skills have far more gameplay impact then individual weapon skills. Remember 1/5 of your weapon skills is an auto attack. The 2/3 are often just harder hits on longer CDs and it usually takes until the 4 and 5 skills for real utility effects.

Utility skills often are the major game changers in combat. Imagine Engineers who could take their kit skills AND all their turrets? Or Elementalists who could take all Cantrips AND Glyphs.

Combine that with a universal resource and little to no CD and you begin to see the real power. Gaming mechanic wise the Revenant is so much stronger then all the other professions and I am going to very interested to see how Anet balance them.

Reminds a lot of when Favored Souls and Sorcerers came into computer D&D. Clerics and Wizards got left behind (at least as far as pure classes went).

Maxzero.4032:

People keep saying that that (most) other classes get two weapon skill bars so it’s equal to Revenants two utility skill bars. Thars not true individual utility skills have far more gameplay impact then individual weapon skills. Remember 1/5 of your weapon skills is an auto attack. The 2/3 are often just harder hits on longer CDs and it usually takes until the 4 and 5 skills for real utility effects.

Utility skills often are the major game changers in combat. Imagine Engineers who could take their kit skills AND all their turrets? Or Elementalists who could take all Cantrips AND Glyphs.

Combine that with a universal resource and little to no CD and you begin to see the real power. Gaming mechanic wise the Revenant is so much stronger then all the other professions and I am going to very interested to see how Anet balance them.

Reminds a lot of when Favored Souls and Sorcerers came into computer D&D. Clerics and Wizards got left behind (at least as far as pure classes went).

This is very true. But not the problem. The problem is the idea that there may be no way to choose.

The problem isn’t, what if the elementalist could bring all their cantrips and glyphs, it’s what if, in order to take the cantrip or glyph you wanted you were stuck with two default other skills, period, regardless of how useful they are to your play style or in general. The problem is that you could never take all the glyphs because they were only available with a specific set of utilities which did not include other glyphs.

This is the concern the op is presenting.

Exactly. I think people are confusing some things here… We’re not talking about in-combat flexibility. They have that, no problem. We’re talking about build creation and customization. Their current set up is similar to saying if you take a trap on a ranger you must take all traps. Or survival skills you must take all survival skills (and even then, with no variation, so one of them would be cut). So on and so forth for the other classes. Necromancers typically run a signet, a spectral skill, sometimes two, or a well/corruption spell. Most well runners don’t run healing well, they take Consume Conditions. Essentially they have no say in their skills.

This matters because if you’re building for a certain aspect, and you have one utility or part of the legend that fits that role you run the risk of being forced to take some utilities that are irrelevant. You coul argue this is similar to weapons for other classes, but the catch is they have this with both weapons and utilities. Their building flexibility is pretty dry. To some that doesn’t matter, but for people who like to theory craft, that’s most of the fun sucked out right there, not being able to see how your other skills can synergize together. Instead, you’re essentially forced to 3 utilities that are what they want you to take. It’s not very interesting if you ask me.

Your conclusion is not very sound considering all the information is not even out yet for the Revenant class and you haven’t even played it.