Guild Wars 2

Anet is guilty of the classic Bait and Switch.
Lure people into buying the expansion with these new Elite Specializations and then tell them they must earn X amount of points before they can actually be played. Essentially we have to play through all four maps to unlock enough points for the ES and then go back and play through the content again to experience them.
This wasn’t stated up front though people have asked over and over again. Arena Net enticed people to buy the expansion, with the implication that upon reaching level 80, the ES would be just another trait line….unlockable with Hero Points we already have….but that’s not what they’re telling us just a few days from launch.

I feel like I have been intentionally misled.
I currently spend $200 per month on this game in the Gem Store.

I understand this is likely not Colin’s fault, he just an employee doing what he’s told.
Still the feelings of disgust I have towards this company will keep me from spending any more real world currency on this game until we (the playerbase) get a detailed explanation as to WHY this information was with held until just a few days from release.

What in “do 20 skill challenges through new awesome content” seems grindy to you guys with ALREADY WORLD COMPLETION? As if that didn’t take 100x more time…

You guys and gals make it so everything you do provides exp and hand out tomes like candy so players can start spending money on their shiny new lvl 80 toys… You want players to fast track to 80 and enjoy the game and their characters, but then y’all throw in stuff like this…

Your money makers are your lvl 80s, so I’m sure you’d much prefer players happily buying up gems to get tons of stuff to outfit characters as opposed to begrudgingly grinding to get to the “good stuff” while feeling less and less inclined to whip out that credit card…

Seera.5916:

Preecha Paradigm.2948:

Stop whining everyone. This is not awful; it’s called ELITE for a reason. It improves your class. You are not just unlocking an elite specialization; you are unlocking armor skins, sigils, and new runes.

You guys wanted good content, I understand them not wanting everyone to easily spec into their elite automatically. The whole idea of the expansion is playing the expansion and I believe that there is fear that the more content that they take away from HoT the less you will want to play it. They want to pack this thing to the brim, so that you won’t have to rush through.

If I were them, I would had found a way to include some lore questing to unlock your elite.

DO NOT CHANGE THE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE ELITE SPEC.

That’s the thing. This announcement will cause players to rush through the content. Because they want to play fully unlocked elite specs on day 1.

They will ignore events that aren’t around hero challenges. They will not care about the player asking for help with a group event. Because they want to fully unlock their elite. They will rush through the maps hunting for hero challenges. They will ruin the joy of exploring the map for the first time to get their elite fully unlocked.

You’re speaking for yourself, I don’t want to do that. Yeah, I have 200 hero points to spend on the elite, so it’s not a biggy for me. But if you played the beta, you will find out that those hero points, are tricky to get. Content is content, no matter how you play it. And obtaining hero points isn’t exactly rushing through the game because you forget that there is a storyline that probably has restrictions due to the mastery system; so you will have to allocate time to that. Parts of HoT may be tricky to get to without certain masteries. So yes they might try to rush but eventually they will hit a wall. And please lets not forget about WvW, you can get points from that too.

Doug.4930:

JediYoda.1275:

Doug.4930:

displacedTitan.6897:

Doug.4930:

Mightybird.6034:

Doug.4930:

The worst part is that even if we can convince Anet to reduce the hero points needed, it will still probably be too much. I was having nightmare’s about 170 points.

I mean some of us have Jobs and families. How are we supposed to unlock this in a reasonable amount of time after paying for the expansions ahead of time? If I had known this was going to be introduced I would never have bought the expansion.

Youre talking about half mapping two whole zones of hero point challenges….Seriously this is too much for you?

In a word:

YES.

Honestly… if a couple hours of playtime is going to DESTROY YOUR LIFE maybe playing games just isn’t in the cards right now. Pick up a hobby that takes less time from your work/family.

No, its just mind numbingly dull to grind this many hero points to unlock a specialization that I payed for. I would be far less upset if Anet had of announced this ages ago. But the fact I’v been baited into paying for this expansion by Anet deliberately failing to release this info so that I can be locked behind a grind wall I was un-aware existed, has to say the least, annoyed me somewhat.

um Anet did announce the new changes coming 3+ months ago so players will have time to get HP’s done and be ready for the expansion. If you took the time to get them all done you would have just little over 200HP’s to spend once H.O.T goes live then you have do only half of HPC to get the rest.

As I’v stated previously, I assumed that there would be far less grinding.
In other words I assumed that the total hero points needed to unlock the new trait line would be something like 100 ish? It was only an hour or so ago that it was announced that It would be 400…….

I only ever intended to do this once for my thief. I feel truly sorry for players of my mindset that main multiple classes.

You seem to be ignoring some very important information as Colin has made it very clear.

hero challenges are worth 10 points each in the jungle. So no you don’t need to go do 200-400 jungle challenges.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/elite-specializations-how-many-hero-points/page/6#post5628041

Many players have several Alts and will have no problem doing the HP several times. If players are too lazy to do them then well no one can help you as you just have do them or not.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/elite-specializations-how-many-hero-points/5628102/report/new

ColinJohanson.2394:

Runiir.6425:

Doesn’t matter what the rate is when you take into account you need every single point in the old maps as well. That x9 is too much.

Except you don’t! There are enough hero challenges in the jungle you don’t need to do any in the core tyrian world – those simply speed you up on day one if you already got them.

So really its a non issue

Mightybird.6034:

Exciton.8942:

Enough of hearing people saying you have to WORK to just play the basic game content. This is not work, this is a game for fun!.

Sure you need to grind for cosmetics and that’s totally fair. But have to grind for the basic content we already paid 50 dollars for? Hell no.

Except its not basic content. Its an optional spec.

And for all we know with the first 200 points we have access to the full traitline + weaps and the remaining 200 pts is the utilities (who cares right away, just as effective without in almost all cases) and the skins.

Which means its possible people with 200 pts can unlock a fully working elite spec on day one, minute one of logging in.

It is totally fair for people having 200 pts to unlock an elite spec. It is likely those people who did full map completion. It probably take more than 10 hours of them to do so.

Just make the skins unlock cost large amount of hero points. They are non-essential cosmetics. The elite spec is the basic content many players have been excited about. Putting huge HP gate is just to ask players to form HP trains and ignore the actual content itself.

There is a large difference between working for progression and grinding an unrealistic expectation. Yes in WvW this will literally take weeks, if it requires masteries to get to some of the nodes in the jungle, that too will take more time than necessary.

It’s suppose to be fun, if these elites are not suppose to be more powerful and just give us more options as Anet has stated time and again, then why should they be treated differently then regular spec in regards to points needed ? Because they use the word “Elite” to describe them ? Sorry but no that’s just a word there is nothing “Elite” about them. We paid for the option to use the specs when we bought HoT, that is what separates us from those who did not buy it. They use old specs we purchased the ability to use the new specs, so stop with the “you just want everything for free” comments, last I checked it was not free.

Vavume.8065:

I am 100% behind this decision, Elite specs are not called Elite specs for nothing, they are supposed to be something special, do you really think that you would just get that handed on a plate to you? either work for it or don’t, but stop embarrassing yourselves by crying about it.

I’m sorry, I thought doing 100% map completion just to unlock the elite specialization counted as working for it. The devaluation of core Tyrian hero point challenges combined with the inordinate number needed for the elite spec and the fact that you have to unlock everything else first is truly unnecessary and something worth being frustrated over.

Vendetta.1958:

Source.

As you can see, the grandmaster traits are among the last things to be unlocked.

Not sure why I’m arguing this here though, seeing as you all seem to love mindless 1-spam grinding.

Oh kitten. If its truly in order like that…. I take back what I said. No need for personal attacks.

nacario.9417:

So if we tome a rev to 80, how many HP will we lack to unlock all the core specs, or is it enough? Just trying to figure out how far away ill be from herald with no vanilla HP unlocked

The hero points you get from leveling should be sufficient to unlock all your base traits and skills at 80. You’d essentially be hitting HoT with 0 hero points to spare so you’d need the full 400 points (via 40 nodes).

Exciton.8942:

Mightybird.6034:

Exciton.8942:

Enough of hearing people saying you have to WORK to just play the basic game content. This is not work, this is a game for fun!.

Sure you need to grind for cosmetics and that’s totally fair. But have to grind for the basic content we already paid 50 dollars for? Hell no.

Except its not basic content. Its an optional spec.

And for all we know with the first 200 points we have access to the full traitline + weaps and the remaining 200 pts is the utilities (who cares right away, just as effective without in almost all cases) and the skins.

Which means its possible people with 200 pts can unlock a fully working elite spec on day one, minute one of logging in.

It is totally fair for people having 200 pts to unlock an elite spec. It is likely those people who did full map completion. It probably take more than 10 hours of them to do so.

Just make the skins unlock cost large amount of hero points. They are non-essential cosmetics. The elite spec is the basic content many players have been excited about. Putting huge HP gate is just to ask players to form HP trains and ignore the actual content itself.

The gate is not huge.

It just means that of the first few days of playing, you will not have unlocked the class 100%.

That is NOT unreasonable.

Not to mention that we do not actually know the what Armor/Weapon/Trait split is.

Terra Dactyl.2047:

1. 40 hero points from the new zones is hardly a “massive grind”.
2. if they’re behind masteries, masteries are account bound, so you only need to do those once.
3. If the new points are a massive pain in the tuckus, you can do 10 of the old ones in like 3 minutes instead, or just get them through WvW.
4. Presumably the unique weapon and armor skins are last, so you won’t even need the full 400 for the traits and skills.

You people are acting like you’re being tied to your chairs and forced to max out all masteries on every character (even though they’re account bound), and then do 400 hero challenges. If you have all current ones you need 19. If you have none you need 40 and never play that character anyway. Soooo grindy.

/popcorn

Don’t presume anything…. It’s kinda like assume…
If the skins are after all the traits/skills then we don’t really have a problem, unless it’s 375 points for the skills/traits and 1 point per skin. But I don’t think it’s laid out that way… however I’m not assuming that.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I’m sorry, I thought doing 100% map completion just to unlock the elite specialization counted as working for it.

As someone with 11 world completes I am totally fine with it only counting towards half an elite spec, so yeah if you thought it was going to give you the full thing you were indeed wrong, and now have to do some work for it, why should everything be added to the game retroactively? that’s basically what you wanted, new content should require new work to be done to obtain it, basic MMO 101.

nacario.9417:

So if we tome a rev to 80, how many HP will we lack to unlock all the core specs, or is it enough? Just trying to figure out how far away ill be from herald with no vanilla HP unlocked

You will lack 400 after you level with tomes

Mightybird.6034:

Seera.5916:

So you know how easily accessible the hero challenges are and exactly where they are and the quickest routes to each of them so that players who want to play the elite on day 1 can get them without ruining the first time map exploration too much? If so, please share. I’m sure there are players who want to know.

I’m personally in no rush to get to the elite, but some players are and now many of them get to weigh the desire to play the elite to its full potential and the joy of exploration for the first time. And that’s honestly sad. That many players have been forced into a position where they are between a rock and a hard place. Either way, many players will end up disappointed.

Ya we really suffering with these first world problems. Forbid we actually have to make a choice on what to enjoy first and have a little patience. So so sad. Like maybe we could start a charity for these poor victims?

So you’re happy that many players will be disappointed in whatever choice they make? They either have to give up their desire to play the elite on day 1 or have give up the joy on exploring the map for the first time? Really?!

I get that not everyone values map exploration and those players were likely going to rush through the map anyway to get the hero points needed, no matter how many in the jungle were needed.

But for some, map exploration is a key part of their enjoyment of the game. And you can only explore a map for the first time once. And some of those players expected to be able to play the elite specs on day 1. Some of them likely Heralds. So they have to either give up that first time exploration for a good chunk of the maps or give up being able to play the elite on day 1. Either way leads to dissatisfaction. Because their expectations weren’t met (either the expectation to be able to enjoy map exploration at their own pace or the expectation of being able to play the elites on all the characters they planned on on day 1). And not everyone will adjust their expectations accordingly in time as people process things differently. If this news had been given out a few weeks ago, things would likely be fine now. Because players would have had time to get more hero challenges in the core area of Tyria or adjust their expectations to not having the elite on day 1.

The timing of this “bomb shell” is the main problem, imo.

Sytherek.7689:

ColinJohanson.2394:

Unlocking your elite spec is a training line in your training panel that costs hero points. You do need to have trained all the existing training lines before you’re allowed to put hero points into your elite spec.

If you’ve got all the hero points in the existing game you’ll have enough to train about half the elite specialization training line on launch day. The rest you’ll need to earn in the jungle or via the new system Tyler outlined yesterday from WvW. The number of points to fully train your elite spec is higher than other training lines – but hero challenges in the jungle are worth 10 points each, so it’s not actually as big as it appears.

Terribly, awfully, grindy, Colin.

I have a main with 100% everything (accomplished under the old must-do-WvW system), have had for a while. Locking her elite spec behing monumental grind is not good or fun.

I have 2 other characters at about 75% world completion. I’m not about to grind them, and my main, through thousands of hours of repetitive content just to get an elite spec I PAID FOR.

I have a life. Guild Wars 2 is recreation, not my life.

We will not be buying the expansion for two other (wife, daughter) accounts in this house.

I regret buying the expansion for myself.

Nice playing your game while it was fun. Now that it’s “grind wars”, we’re off to brighter pastures. Not a rage quit, a simple anti-grind viewpoint.

If I can get all the skills / traits with old world completion, my grouchiness might abate SLIGHTLY. I play for gameplay, not shinies, so if I need to grind only for pretties, I can accept that.

But I’m not about to grind for basic gameplay like skills and traits.

How is this “too grindy” tho

I have at least 20-40 hero challenges completed on most of my level 80s already , getting them in HoT shouldn’t be that difficult.

I find the complaints about grind amusing since I remember doing world completion while WvW was required…200+ Skill Points. Unlocking elite specs is exponentially easier tbh

Zergs going for HP? That’s assuming each HP won’t require masteries to reach. I think things will be just fine and the doom and gloom in this thread won’t have an effect (especially people saying HoT would’ve got fewer sales if they’d said this earlier? really? lol)

But I too am concerned about the Herald and it being a more crippled elite spec before full unlock due to the nature of how Revenant skill unlock functions.

Mightybird.6034:

Exciton.8942:

Enough of hearing people saying you have to WORK to just play the basic game content. This is not work, this is a game for fun!.

Sure you need to grind for cosmetics and that’s totally fair. But have to grind for the basic content we already paid 50 dollars for? Hell no.

Except its not basic content. Its an optional spec.

And for all we know with the first 200 points we have access to the full traitline + weap and the remaining 200 pts is the utilities (who cares right away, just as effective without in almost all cases) and the skins.

Which means its possible people with 200 pts can unlock a fully working elite spec on day one, minute one of logging in.

Say that to revenants that are only allowed to use specific utilities for their attunements.

so, if I understand this right, the people are upset because they are not handed everything right out the gate?

Vavume.8065:

Rising Dusk.2408:

I’m sorry, I thought doing 100% map completion just to unlock the elite specialization counted as working for it.

As someone with 11 world completes I am totally fine with it only counting towards half an elite spec, so yeah if you thought it was going to give you the full thing you were indeed wrong, and now have to do some work for it, why should everything be added to the game retroactively? that’s basically what you wanted, new content should require new work to be done to obtain it, basic MMO 101.

11 world completes ???

Ah… so no wonder you are so acid towards those that are complaining about the required hero points. I’m sorry but I’m betting only a small minority has world completion on so many alts thus the rest of us reserve the right to complain about it, thank you.

aB EXT.1287:

As a WvW focused player, this is completely unacceptable. The unlocking is totally random and will take a LOT of ranks to unlock everything for each of my many alts that I play frequently. You could easily spend weeks on one elite spec, only to have it be unusable because you don’t have the correct traits unlocked. This coupled with the removal of rank consumables makes this absolutely horrible.

This will increase the toxicity of WvW so much, as you can easily waste an entire day fighting against a server that simply will not let go of any objectives.

I do not understand this criticism. My understanding is you can purchase either a core Tyria or Heart of Maguuma hero challenge to unlock. Core Tyria are worth 1 point and Heart of Maguuma are worth 10. While it selects the point to unlock randomly, it will be from the pool of ones you haven’t done yet. So each time you purchase a challenge completion, you know how many points you get out of it. The sequence for unlocking traits and stuff will be set like other specializations so the progression itself isn’t random. And while consumables are going away, they’re becoming boosters instead, right?

Runiir.6425:

Say that to revenants that are only allowed to use specific utilities for their attunements.

Ya I’m actually going to be one of those rev mains and am confused how that will work exactly..

Preecha Paradigm.2948:

Seera.5916:

Preecha Paradigm.2948:

Stop whining everyone. This is not awful; it’s called ELITE for a reason. It improves your class. You are not just unlocking an elite specialization; you are unlocking armor skins, sigils, and new runes.

You guys wanted good content, I understand them not wanting everyone to easily spec into their elite automatically. The whole idea of the expansion is playing the expansion and I believe that there is fear that the more content that they take away from HoT the less you will want to play it. They want to pack this thing to the brim, so that you won’t have to rush through.

If I were them, I would had found a way to include some lore questing to unlock your elite.

DO NOT CHANGE THE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE ELITE SPEC.

That’s the thing. This announcement will cause players to rush through the content. Because they want to play fully unlocked elite specs on day 1.

They will ignore events that aren’t around hero challenges. They will not care about the player asking for help with a group event. Because they want to fully unlock their elite. They will rush through the maps hunting for hero challenges. They will ruin the joy of exploring the map for the first time to get their elite fully unlocked.

You’re speaking for yourself, I don’t want to do that. Yeah, I have 200 hero points to spend on the elite, so it’s not a biggy for me. But if you played the beta, you will find out that those hero points, are tricky to get. Content is content, no matter how you play it. And obtaining hero points isn’t exactly rushing through the game because you forget that there is a storyline that probably has restrictions due to the mastery system; so you will have to allocate time to that. Parts of HoT may be tricky to get to without certain masteries. So yes they might try to rush but eventually they will hit a wall. And please lets not forget about WvW, you can get points from that too.

But people will still rush to do it. They’ll ignore people struggling with hero challenges that they’ve completed. They’ll ignore events unless the event will hurt their ability to get to or complete hero challenges. And no where did I say all players, so I wasn’t speaking for you.

I’m also not speaking about myself. I’m not going to rush through the content. But I realize that some will and that some will have a hard choice to make on which expectation they want to meet: enjoying the first time of map exploration or getting the elite spec fully unlocked on day 1.

And that learning that 3 days before launch is a low blow by ANet.

Supposedly the Jungle has enough Hero Challenges to get you all hero points needed for Elites. So 40 Hero Challenges in Maguuma Jungle. The old maps 213 Hero Challenges will speed up you process of unlocking Elite if you have them already. Otherwise you can just do the 40 challenges in Maguuma OR gain 200 WvW Ranks and spend around 6000 badges to get the Maguuma Jungle Hero Books from WvW.

Maguuma Jungle Hero Point = 5 Proofs and 150 badges x40 = 200 Ranks (Proofs), 150*40 = 6000 badges

Aye.8392:

And now instead of the emphasis being on playing the content, enjoying the game, and loving the scenery the emphasis is on getting to that next hero challenge as fast as humanly possible to unlock new skills and traits. Sad.

This guy gets it.

So the elite spec has been gated (even more), but the real question is are the new hero challenges going to be gated behind certain masteries. I doubt they are going to line all these hero points up on the yellow brick road in the first area. Likely a lot of these will require different levels of gliding and mushroom jumping, and god knows what else.

To unlock an elite spec for a single toon playing WvW only you will need:

1. to level up 200 WvW ranks post-xpac
2. 6000 badges of honor

For the PvE majority of you citing WvW who have clearly no clue what you’re talking about, that is ALOT of rank grinding. I have 4k hours of WvW gameplay and I’m only rank 900.

Fishious.9352:

aB EXT.1287:

As a WvW focused player, this is completely unacceptable. The unlocking is totally random and will take a LOT of ranks to unlock everything for each of my many alts that I play frequently. You could easily spend weeks on one elite spec, only to have it be unusable because you don’t have the correct traits unlocked. This coupled with the removal of rank consumables makes this absolutely horrible.

This will increase the toxicity of WvW so much, as you can easily waste an entire day fighting against a server that simply will not let go of any objectives.

I do not understand this criticism. My understanding is you can purchase either a core Tyria or Heart of Maguuma hero challenge to unlock. Core Tyria are worth 1 point and Heart of Maguuma are worth 10. While it selects the point to unlock randomly, it will be from the pool of ones you haven’t done yet. So each time you purchase a challenge completion, you know how many points you get out of it. The sequence for unlocking traits and stuff will be set like other specializations so the progression itself isn’t random. And while consumables are going away, they’re becoming boosters instead, right?

And you can choose which to get between Core and Heart of Maguuma.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Vavume.8065:

I am 100% behind this decision, Elite specs are not called Elite specs for nothing, they are supposed to be something special, do you really think that you would just get that handed on a plate to you? either work for it or don’t, but stop embarrassing yourselves by crying about it.

I’m sorry, I thought doing 100% map completion just to unlock the elite specialization counted as working for it. The devaluation of core Tyrian hero point challenges combined with the inordinate number needed for the elite spec and the fact that you have to unlock everything else first is truly unnecessary and something worth being frustrated over.

Also it appears you have to unlock skins you may not want just to get traits/utilities…

Vavume.8065:

So let me break this down for the casual players that think you were just going to login on day one of HoT release and be able to access the new elite specs in all their glory, why would that have ever been the case? this is an expansion, this is new content, obtaining the elite specs should require you to work for it, I’m sorry I don’t know what games you have been playing where you don’t have to do anything to get the things you want, but I’m happy that its not this game.

I don’t consider doing 100% world completion + other stuff to be “casual”.

ANet has been bragging on the coolness of the new specs. I’ve spent $100s in the gem store supporting this game.

I already worked for the spec by accumulating 214 skillpoints beyond what was needed for the core game. I already did the grind. Why else let us get that many extra skill points? Wasn’t that so they were worth something?

Vague Memory.2817:

So the elite spec has been gated (even more), but the real question is are the new hero challenges going to be gated behind certain masteries. I doubt they are going to line all these hero points up on the yellow brick road in the first area. Likely a lot of these will require different levels of gliding and mushroom jumping, and god knows what else.

It will be, what would be the point not doing like that? they want us to explore the maps and use the gliding and mushroom jumping.

I think what GW2 did is totally fair. Practically having a new class available right away would cheapen it. As you play the game you’ll unlock your new spec naturally.

But for alts, it will be a big task. Unless getting those new items in WvW is pretty fast.

Hexalot.8194:

I’m sorry but I’m betting only a small minority has world completion on so many alts thus the rest of us reserve the right to complain about it, thank you.

Your complaining is not based on anything solid though, its basically just crying. The elite specs are new content, therefore you should be required to complete new content to obtain/finish the elite specs, this is very simple logic that anyone should be able to understand. I also have many alts without world complete that I need to get elite specs for, but guess what, I have no issue with having to do the work for it.

Why do people say they donate to make a point of they deserve more?

We still don’t know fully how a lot of this will play out. Don’t you all think this over angry stuff is a little pre mature?

To be honest, the part that bothers me more is the requirement that we finish training all other traits and skills to get the elite unlocked. I’ve done some searching, poked the betas, and I already have an idea of what I want. If there’s a trait line and two skill lines I don’t want, being frugal with points should be rewarded.

The 10-per-HoT ratio favors the new content, which is good, but it shovels emphasis on masteries (a long grind on their own) in order to reach them, and it devalues the core content. Not so much salty about it as pointing it out, but I’m sure it was also intentional.

Though, to think about it further, having this chunk of a grind also puts a lot of faith that the elite specs have value for doing so. Which for Chronomancer, Reaper, and some others, I can see. Berserker and Dargunhurrdurr? Why would I torture myself for those? :\

TJgalon.5012:

so, if I understand this right, the people are upset because they are not handed everything right out the gate?

Some might be, but that should have been unrealistic. No, there are many posts that explain the problem with this but if you want to dismiss people and their issues so easily, I suppose nothing that hasn’t already been said will explain it. Therefore I won’t bother to repeat it.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Ouch… only half? That’s pretty rough… so it must take 500+ points to do the whole thing I guess…

That was my immediate reaction as practically everyone was preparing based on what number they thought. It looks like we may as well see how many HP nodes are in the new zones rather than questing for any more this week. I foresee a lot of LFGs to get the HOT points.

Sytherek.7689:

I don’t consider doing 100% world completion + other stuff to be “casual”.

You don’t need world complete though, you can get 10 hero points per challenge in HoT areas, which means you only now neeed 19 challenges to finish the elite spec, since you already have world complete, or for someone that does not have world complete they need 40 HoT challenges, it is really not that difficult at all…

and no you did not already do the work for it, please link me where it says work you do in this mmo will be retroactively rewarded in the future… please use logic, that is not how MMO’s work.

TerminalMontage.5693:

I think what GW2 did is totally fair. Practically having a new class available right away would cheapen it. As you play the game you’ll unlock your new spec naturally.

But for alts, it will be a big task. Unless getting those new items in WvW is pretty fast.

It’s the timing that’s the problem. They waited until 3 days before launch to tell and if there had not been a thread asking, we may not have known until after launch. I think the timing has made the problem worse and understandably so. Especially since players were vocal about their intent to play the elites on day 1 and had been asking for the number of points for weeks now.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

TJgalon.5012:

so, if I understand this right, the people are upset because they are not handed everything right out the gate?

Some might be, but that should have been unrealistic. No, there are many posts that explain the problem with this but if you want to dismiss people and their issues so easily, I suppose nothing that hasn’t already been said will explain it. Therefore I won’t bother to repeat it.

I basically what I am reading. People are upset they have to earn the stuff they want. It seem like common sense to me, that you have to earn it.

Cathbadb.6079:

Anet is guilty of the classic Bait and Switch.
Lure people into buying the expansion with these new Elite Specializations and then tell them they must earn X amount of points before they can actually be played. Essentially we have to play through all four maps to unlock enough points for the ES and then go back and play through the content again to experience them.
This wasn’t stated up front though people have asked over and over again. Arena Net enticed people to buy the expansion, with the implication that upon reaching level 80, the ES would be just another trait line….unlockable with Hero Points we already have….but that’s not what they’re telling us just a few days from launch.

I feel like I have been intentionally misled.
I currently spend $200 per month on this game in the Gem Store.

I understand this is likely not Colin’s fault, he just an employee doing what he’s told.
Still the feelings of disgust I have towards this company will keep me from spending any more real world currency on this game until we (the playerbase) get a detailed explanation as to WHY this information was with held until just a few days from release.

Baitically what (s)he said.

All this leaves a baitter taste in my mouth. You baitter believe that a lot of players are going to feel the same way abait this issue. Unbaitlievable!

Vavume.8065:

Sytherek.7689:

I don’t consider doing 100% world completion + other stuff to be “casual”.

You don’t need world complete though, you can get 10 hero points per challenge in HoT areas, which means you only now neeed 19 challenges to finish the elite spec, since you already have world complete, or for someone that does not have world complete they need 40 HoT challenges, it is really not that difficult at all…

No one has said it is difficult. Just that felt it was a grind or way too many. At least for those opposed to the number needed.

Seera.5916:

TerminalMontage.5693:

I think what GW2 did is totally fair. Practically having a new class available right away would cheapen it. As you play the game you’ll unlock your new spec naturally.

But for alts, it will be a big task. Unless getting those new items in WvW is pretty fast.

It’s the timing that’s the problem. They waited until 3 days before launch to tell and if there had not been a thread asking, we may not have known until after launch. I think the timing has made the problem worse and understandably so. Especially since players were vocal about their intent to play the elites on day 1 and had been asking for the number of points for weeks now.

Though from what I read, Elite can be played day 1, just wont be able to have the entire line finish on day 1. Or maybe you can with the extra hero point earn in the world, some of it still in mystery and I am glad for that.

Pls Anet, release an expansion that we don’t need to spend time with. Give us an expansion with already unlocked elite specs, send us ingame mails with items to complete our entire legendary scavenger hunt and after we’ve “done” everything, pls listen to our complains that there’s nothing to do in this game.
Wow… It’s not even released and people already cry… It takes like one rainy Saturday afternoon to get every hero challenge in Tyria, and on release all you need to do is going for 20-40 Mastery-Challenges in Maguuma to finish your Elitespec… And I don’t think people stop playing their classes after they reached that point, so I don’t see the problem here… It’s good that elite specs will take SOME time to get, else they should not be called elite… and I guess some people should be reminded that this is still a game.

Though from what I read, Elite can be played day 1, just wont be able to have the entire line finish on day 1. Or maybe you can with the extra hero point earn in the world, some of it still in mystery and I am glad for that.

That right. If you have earned the extra 2xx Heropoints from world completion you can unlock the whole elite spec, the rest will be used to unlock skins. And even if you don’t have world completion, you can start being a Herold/Reaper/etc… but you don’t have all skills and traits right from the start.

The amount of people not reading the entire dev post is amazing.

Vavume.8065:

why should everything be added to the game retroactively? that’s basically what you wanted, new content should require new work to be done to obtain it, basic MMO 101.

Interesting, so then why are so many other features in HoT being made available to all players right away without additional grind. Why am I not forced to grind a mastery to get my new squad UI? That’s new content. The entire point of masteries is that is where the grind should be, and that is where the horizontal progression is. Locking elite specializations behind having to do a metric ton of effort in the Maguuma Jungle in addition to the grinding you already have to do for masteries is part of why this is not okay. What’s also not okay is dropping this information on people so late instead of doing it before they’ve spent months working on map completion on a ton of alts just to get their elite specializations on release.

Seera.5916:

No one has said it is difficult. Just that felt it was a grind or way too many. At least for those opposed to the number needed.

If you consider playing an MMO the way it should be played a grind then maybe you should play something more story orientated like dragon age etc, because MMO’s generally make you work for what you want.

Well thank god I only pvp…

TJgalon.5012:

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

TJgalon.5012:

so, if I understand this right, the people are upset because they are not handed everything right out the gate?

Some might be, but that should have been unrealistic. No, there are many posts that explain the problem with this but if you want to dismiss people and their issues so easily, I suppose nothing that hasn’t already been said will explain it. Therefore I won’t bother to repeat it.

I basically what I am reading. People are upset they have to earn the stuff they want. It seem like common sense to me, that you have to earn it.

Exactly, and the best irony of all was how these same people were complaining about the small number of new maps. Now they are complaining about having to play through those maps.

TJgalon.5012:

Seera.5916:

TerminalMontage.5693:

I think what GW2 did is totally fair. Practically having a new class available right away would cheapen it. As you play the game you’ll unlock your new spec naturally.

But for alts, it will be a big task. Unless getting those new items in WvW is pretty fast.

It’s the timing that’s the problem. They waited until 3 days before launch to tell and if there had not been a thread asking, we may not have known until after launch. I think the timing has made the problem worse and understandably so. Especially since players were vocal about their intent to play the elites on day 1 and had been asking for the number of points for weeks now.

Though from what I read, Elite can be played day 1, just wont be able to have the entire line finish on day 1. Or maybe you can with the extra hero point earn in the world, some of it still in mystery and I am glad for that.

The elite skill in the picture posted in this post shows that the elite skill is unlocked pretty close to the end. How many raid groups will accept a player who doesn’t have their elite skill unlocked? What about dungeon or fractal groups?

Granted, I’m not sure how accurate that picture is. Daredevil isn’t in the list to the right and during the beta we were given level 80 characters so I don’t know where that picture itself came from and could have been edited.

Some players will want to play fully unlocked characters (and by unlocked, I mean all skills and traits, not the skins and weapons).