Guild Wars 2

Ranael.6423:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Menadena.7482:

Ranael.6423:

Bettik.4982:

Ranael.6423:

I really can’t feel sorry for those people. Nobody ever said that doing World Completion will grant a big advantage to Espec unlock, ever. People assumed it would and played accordingly.

They did say, “The new system will come to the live game before the launch of Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns™, allowing players to experience the changes to core specializations and stockpile Hero Points for their elite specializations. While elite specializations will be available to everyone who purchases the expansion, the upcoming core specialization changes will affect the base game.”
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/ready-up-core-specializations-summary/

Yeah I know that article. So yes stockpile…
In fact those who have done so have a 50% advantage on the other, you can have up to half your mastery track unlocked in 18 hours…. not so bad. I don’t see written “… and stockpile Hero Points to fully unlock their elite specialization as soon as the expansion will be released”

It is interesting to hear Colin say world completion was around 200 points (he does not know the #? really?). World completion is 179 points. Yes, I know there are more in the borderlands and such, but they have not been part of world completion for awhile now.

I had figured I would get to 140 or so then do a LFG so a bunch of us could help each other with the challenges we were each unable to solo. I have all of my characters above 100 and my original plans were to have my ones most in need of the new specs to have at least 120 by launch.

Don’t know what world completion you’re going, but I have over 200 points and I’m not even done on my Theif

According to wiki there are only 202 hero challenges in the (current) world (189 pve, 3 per bl, and 4 in eb). Oddly, I could swear that have 214 on my ele, and she has everything unlocked. Confuzzled….

Gonna have to recheck that when I get home.

It was 202 at launch.
Since then Maguuma Wastes was added (11 points) and the krait obelisk in personal instance. 202+11+1 =214, there is a chance your memory is working totally fine

Ah right… DT, SW and HI. All this chit chat about map completion had them slip right away from me (bc they aren’t counted). You’d think I’d remember, considering I have an excel spreadsheet with all my characters with HP by map.

sigh

More caffeine needed me thinks…

Konig Des Todes.2086:

When Nightfall came out, did you get heroes automatically or did you have to play the new game to get them?
When Eye of the North came out, did you get PvE skills automatically or did you have to play the new expansion to get them?
When any of GW1’s games came out did you automatically have all skills – both normal and elites – unlocked?

No wonder I didn’t play GW1 as much as I play GW2!

Sorean.5379:

You only need 60 points to play the Specialization,is that too much ?

Yes, yes it is. A revenant cannot mix utility skills like everyone else meaning the entire skill line needs unlocked just for Herald to be playable.

One thing I don’t appreciate is some of the posters being accused of not wanting to “work” and “play the game”, especially when it’s defining “the game” as pve.

The game isn’t just about pve. Hey, let’s make it so that to unlock it, you have to do PvP, WvW, and PvE on every single character. What? You wanted stuff handed to you? Afraid of the challenge?

How many people were complaining about having to do WvW for map completion? And hell, I agreed with not forcing PvE’rs to WvW, because you know I had some degree of respect for their playstyle; unlike a lot of posts in this thread or forum that can’t even seem to think of anyone approaching the game differently. I mean, just look at how many random things people consider to be “exploits”. “Stacking in a dungeon is an exploit, because that’s not how I do it!” “Maize Balm farming is an exploit, remove it!”; hell I despise the later concept, but I don’t care enough to comment on it that much.

I certainly didn’t appreciate pve elitists condescending to them, especially when the difference was often the ability to follow a tag and blob down some enemy keep or pay gems to transfer to a stacked server. Sorry, I’m sure I’m not the only WvW’er that rolls their eyes when people tell their cute stories of getting to that Vista in Overlook being such a difficult odyssey. Give me a break. And hey, Anet saw the light there. And they thought of a WvW alternative too, so I’ll definitely credit them with that.

But it’s clear some elitists that think that grinding away in their form of progression is the only way worth playing in the game, and everyone else is entitled and spoiled when arguing that anyone who regularly plays WvW to be entitled to any degree is a horrific joke. Oh, and by the way, hopefully some of you discontent folks will raise a glass for this, but this aint just update content— we paid for this so it isn’t a charity case either.

And as I’ve said before, attacking someone personally, because they don’t want conform to your kitten gamer code is not really relevant to the discussion. I mean please, it’s not a high horse one is riding; we don’t have mounts in this game.

While i’m incredibly disappointed in that decision (i only started the game recently, hit 80 a couple of hours ago, and i only chose a necro as my first class because reaper looked so cool) and think that it majorly kittens over the more casual players…. considering you continue to earn hero points by “leveling up” after hitting 80, shouldn’t you people who played a lot over the past few years have thousands of hero points by now?

Domey.9804:

i will farm heropoints in hot, and if there is an interresting mission/quest i will just skip it.

thats what anets wants me to do, and i do it

Edit: how many heropoints does this maguuma thingy have? i hope enough so that i dont have to farm the rest of tyria

As far as I understood. The jungle alone would have enough points for the entire specialisation reward track. You might want to check the red posts in this thread though.

Mandalore.8906:

While i’m incredibly disappointed in that decision (i only started the game recently, hit 80 a couple of hours ago, and i only chose a necro as my first class because reaper looked so cool) and think that it majorly kittens over the more casual players…. considering you continue to earn hero points by “leveling up” after hitting 80, shouldn’t you people who played a lot over the past few years have thousands of hero points by now?

The system got changed recently. You have only a certain amount these days. A set amount for 1-80 levelling plus each skillpoint challenge. Or hero point challenge since the name change.

The reason they did this seems to me that they want players to progress through at least to some extent. You also need to fully master the profession (unlock all original traits and skills) before you can go E.Sp. It’s basically an horizontal progression expansion like new sets of skills were in GW1. There too you needed certain faction ranks or be at a certain place in the world (progressed the story or travelled the land) to get the extra skills.

I hope it will be just as easy to progress as back then.

They’ll give us items to unlock elite specs at some point anyway, as they’re already doing for hero challenges in wvw.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Domey.9804:

i will farm heropoints in hot, and if there is an interresting mission/quest i will just skip it.

thats what anets wants me to do, and i do it

Edit: how many heropoints does this maguuma thingy have? i hope enough so that i dont have to farm the rest of tyria

As far as I understood. The jungle alone would have enough points for the entire specialisation reward track. You might want to check the red posts in this thread though.

The way I read it, Colin did say the core HP are not needed, but if you have them, your already boosted towards the goal. 200hp more or less in core, means 60 for elite unlock plus what ever else is needed after that towards the other unlocks.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Why are you ignoring everything else? That’s nonsensical. Do the stuff while you unlock HPs. You can start spending those points immediately into your elite spec, so while you’re playing the game, as intended, you are simultaneously unlocking your elite spec options and building your class.

Doesn’t that make a lot more sense?

Have we all basically forgotten how to level up? You don’t just get your stuff all at once while leveling, you build it over time. This is effectively the same thing. As you are progressing through the area you find and complete the challenges gaining more and more access to your new spec.

Smokin Dice.9103:

DoctorDing.5890:

Anyhow, getting back to the point. I fully support the OP’s right to cry about something that the OP considers to be unreasonable, even though it is not unreasonable.

Maybe the devs will see the OP’s endlessly bitter complaining and take the opportunity to spend the remaining 17 hours before launch reworking the whole game to meet the OP’s short-sighted requirements.

it is short sighted yes.. in the long run the system is great.. but in the early week of launch, what 50% of all people will do is ignore all content and farm HP in maguuma instead of ejoying it, because it is possible to do so.. and you want to tell me that this is reasonable design?
I can only say it again, if it was locked behind a story gate I would be fine with it, so I could play and enjoy, but the sole fact that you can rush the content to get it early is why people will do exactly that..
If it is possible people will do it…

And that is their business. Let people play the way they want to. It doesn’t hurt anything if they do that. It’s entirely unnecessary to do it, but people do unnecessary things all the time. It doesn’t mean you have to do it too, they’re not gaining an advantage over anyone by playing that way. I’m certainly not going to do it that way once I’ve had enough of Halloween and actually step into HoT.

with the characters i want the elite, i will probably ignore everything in the jungle until i unlock all elite traits at least, because i want to fight the jungle as the elite wont bother to do anything of that at all with my ranger, as the druid doesnt bring mechanics or skills that are of interest for me, maybe i’ll just earn the points and save them for the next expac, hm jeah sounds like a good idea.
and what also bugs me, as it seems now, the skins will be in the elite-line aswell… where are they at? at the end? well that would make most sense… if they are i will unlock the skins with a trashckittene just for getting them witch will then get thrown away and all my other chars can save up points.

and exploring the jungle is not lvling up. i lvled almost all my chars by exploring and when doing so, i always had enough points to get a spec-line once i had the lvl to unlock a new slot, but for the elite-line there is no new slot to unlock by doing something, its just, have enough points left to unlock it. now you have to sacrifice a full traitline for unlocking a weapon, and a change of the f-skills. and as elites should be just a new way to play your class, that doesnt seem worth it. also you cant chose what you want to do first, get the skills or the traits, maybe get the new runes, which you can do when lvling up.

and they dont have an advantage over the rest if they rush it? well they will have completed their elite-line and now they can play the full elite vs others with half of the elite…

also looking back on the BWEs there were no hero-points to be found, so noone has an idea how hard they will be to get and where they will be at. if you have to get specific masteries to reach those points, it will feel more like a chore to do the masteries than progressing and getting better at them, many will be running around, until they ‘finaly’ have them high enough and they will practically be mandatory to do. also by not showing the heropoints in the BWE it looked like there was no need for them to be there.

if it is possible to complete the traits and maybe the skills without doing the heropoints in the jungle, then you have more options for how you can play the game and if the jungle doesnt exite you, you can keep playing the current maps and still not feel like you miss out on too much.
the way it is now, you have to play in the jungle to fully experience the elite… turning the jungle form some exiting new play you might want to explore to something where you have to find and do all the hero-challenges.

ArchonWing.9480:

One thing I don’t appreciate is some of the posters being accused of not wanting to “work” and “play the game”, especially when it’s defining “the game” as pve.

The game isn’t just about pve. Hey, let’s make it so that to unlock it, you have to do PvP, WvW, and PvE on every single character. What? You wanted stuff handed to you? Afraid of the challenge?

How many people were complaining about having to do WvW for map completion? And hell, I agreed with not forcing PvE’rs to WvW, because you know I had some degree of respect for their playstyle; unlike a lot of posts in this thread or forum that can’t even seem to think of anyone approaching the game differently. I mean, just look at how many random things people consider to be “exploits”. “Stacking in a dungeon is an exploit, because that’s not how I do it!”

I certainly didn’t appreciate pve elitists condescending to them, especially when the difference was the ability to follow a tag and blob down some enemy keep or pay gems to transfer to a stacked server. Sorry, I’m sure I’m not the only WvW’er that rolls their eyes when people tell their cute stories of getting to that Vista in Overlook. Give me a break. And hey, Anet saw the light there. And they thought of a WvW alternative too, so I’ll definitely credit them with that.

But it’s clear some elitists that think that grinding away in their form of progression is the only way worth playing in the game, and everyone else is entitled and spoiled when arguing that anyone who regularly plays WvW to be entitled to any degree is a horrific joke. Oh, and by the way, hopefully some of you discontent folks will raise a glass for this, but this aint just update content— we paid for this so it isn’t a charity case either.

And as I’ve said before, attacking someone personally, because they don’t want conform to your kitten gamer code is not really relevant to the discussion. I mean please, it’s not a high horse one is riding; we don’t have mounts in this game.

No, we are just entitled, spoiled, kitten brats (yes I did type kitten), that want everything handed to us on silver platters with silver spoons (why silver? Why not gold? Actually make that white gold for me please), while we sit on mounds of cash, never knowing a hardship, never worrying about anything except having to actually play a game.

If someone missed the sarcasm in the above, I’m sorry text doesn’t relay it well, but that is dripping with it so much, that someone on lsd could taste the sarcasm. It is probably bitter.

It’s been said countless times, but I’ll reiterate it: We do not expect, nor do we actually want, to be handed everything and not have to ‘play the game’. I too would say if you don’t want to play the game then why are you here (here as in the game, not the forum as this is obviously not playing gw2, just thought I should also state that). But, based on what Anet implied, many expected to be able to play HoT as the elite spec (and really, only having the minor trait is not what many would consider playing as the elite spec, and sure wasn’t the expectation, but apparently yes, that is what Anet considers it)

Whether you agree with the new legendaries requiring sPvP or not, I’d bet 99% see that as optional, not as a core part of HoT. Elite specs, on the other hand, were a big part of HoT. They were billed as a core part of it. Some people don’t seem to believe this… They should go back and watch the reveal of HoT. Reaper and Druid were made out to be a big deal.

ArchonWing.9480:

One thing I don’t appreciate is some of the posters being accused of not wanting to “work” and “play the game”, especially when it’s defining “the game” as pve.

The game isn’t just about pve. Hey, let’s make it so that to unlock it, you have to do PvP, WvW, and PvE on every single character. What? You wanted stuff handed to you? Afraid of the challenge?

How many people were complaining about having to do WvW for map completion? And hell, I agreed with not forcing PvE’rs to WvW, because you know I had some degree of respect for their playstyle; unlike a lot of posts in this thread or forum that can’t even seem to think of anyone approaching the game differently. I mean, just look at how many random things people consider to be “exploits”. “Stacking in a dungeon is an exploit, because that’s not how I do it!” “Maize Balm farming is an exploit, remove it!”; hell I despise the later concept, but I don’t care enough to comment on it that much.

I certainly didn’t appreciate pve elitists condescending to them, especially when the difference was often the ability to follow a tag and blob down some enemy keep or pay gems to transfer to a stacked server. Sorry, I’m sure I’m not the only WvW’er that rolls their eyes when people tell their cute stories of getting to that Vista in Overlook being such a difficult odyssey. Give me a break. And hey, Anet saw the light there. And they thought of a WvW alternative too, so I’ll definitely credit them with that.

But it’s clear some elitists that think that grinding away in their form of progression is the only way worth playing in the game, and everyone else is entitled and spoiled when arguing that anyone who regularly plays WvW to be entitled to any degree is a horrific joke. Oh, and by the way, hopefully some of you discontent folks will raise a glass for this, but this aint just update content— we paid for this so it isn’t a charity case either.

And as I’ve said before, attacking someone personally, because they don’t want conform to your kitten gamer code is not really relevant to the discussion. I mean please, it’s not a high horse one is riding; we don’t have mounts in this game.

Well Said. I am very disappointed in the decision to charge 400 hero points even if that gets me all the cosmetic fluff it is still to much.

TJgalon.5012:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Domey.9804:

i will farm heropoints in hot, and if there is an interresting mission/quest i will just skip it.

thats what anets wants me to do, and i do it

Edit: how many heropoints does this maguuma thingy have? i hope enough so that i dont have to farm the rest of tyria

As far as I understood. The jungle alone would have enough points for the entire specialisation reward track. You might want to check the red posts in this thread though.

The way I read it, Colin did say the core HP are not needed, but if you have them, your already boosted towards the goal. 200hp more or less in core, means 60 for elite unlock plus what ever else is needed after that towards the other unlocks.

Ah yeah. Thanks. I think having prepared already is definitely not a bad thing if you want to be able to unlock a great deal of the elite spec from the get go. Obviously, you might see it as putting in alot of unnescesary effort. But I believe that anyone who does want to be as prepared as possible have some sort of a headstart this way.

For those who didn’t do any preparation (like me) it also doesn’t mean you need to grind all the old content because you didn’t prepare. (Though at least my main character has done everything a year ago regardless. Plus I intend to play through everything at least once either way and don’t feel I need the elite spec for that anyway. But then my characters always grow as I play the game as opposed to seeing the elite spec as something I must have unlocked right away. As long as it comes on naturally and it’s an RPG style adventure where my character gets more abilities as I go through the jungle then I don’t really see how ArenaNet dropped the ball here.

But hey. That’s just how I see it. I just love character progression. And I thought that after unlocking all the masteries once there would be none at all. But it doesn’t seem to be the case, so I’m happy.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Mandalore.8906:

While i’m incredibly disappointed in that decision (i only started the game recently, hit 80 a couple of hours ago, and i only chose a necro as my first class because reaper looked so cool) and think that it majorly kittens over the more casual players…. considering you continue to earn hero points by “leveling up” after hitting 80, shouldn’t you people who played a lot over the past few years have thousands of hero points by now?

The system got changed recently. You have only a certain amount these days. A set amount for 1-80 levelling plus each skillpoint challenge. Or hero point challenge since the name change.

I don’t want to disagree with you, but… i’m level 80. My exp bar says 80 on the left, and 80 on the right. The bar says i need 254.000 experience points. I just went over that threshold, the bar resetted, and i went from 76 hero points to 77. And that has happened 5 or 6 times since i hit 80 a couple of hours ago. It’s 254.000 experience points every time, and i get a hero point every time.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

ArchonWing.9480:

One thing I don’t appreciate is some of the posters being accused of not wanting to “work” and “play the game”, especially when it’s defining “the game” as pve.

The game isn’t just about pve. Hey, let’s make it so that to unlock it, you have to do PvP, WvW, and PvE on every single character. What? You wanted stuff handed to you? Afraid of the challenge?

How many people were complaining about having to do WvW for map completion? And hell, I agreed with not forcing PvE’rs to WvW, because you know I had some degree of respect for their playstyle; unlike a lot of posts in this thread or forum that can’t even seem to think of anyone approaching the game differently. I mean, just look at how many random things people consider to be “exploits”. “Stacking in a dungeon is an exploit, because that’s not how I do it!”

I certainly didn’t appreciate pve elitists condescending to them, especially when the difference was the ability to follow a tag and blob down some enemy keep or pay gems to transfer to a stacked server. Sorry, I’m sure I’m not the only WvW’er that rolls their eyes when people tell their cute stories of getting to that Vista in Overlook. Give me a break. And hey, Anet saw the light there. And they thought of a WvW alternative too, so I’ll definitely credit them with that.

But it’s clear some elitists that think that grinding away in their form of progression is the only way worth playing in the game, and everyone else is entitled and spoiled when arguing that anyone who regularly plays WvW to be entitled to any degree is a horrific joke. Oh, and by the way, hopefully some of you discontent folks will raise a glass for this, but this aint just update content— we paid for this so it isn’t a charity case either.

And as I’ve said before, attacking someone personally, because they don’t want conform to your kitten gamer code is not really relevant to the discussion. I mean please, it’s not a high horse one is riding; we don’t have mounts in this game.

No, we are just entitled, spoiled, kitten brats (yes I did type kitten), that want everything handed to us on silver platters with silver spoons (why silver? Why not gold? Actually make that white gold for me please), while we sit on mounds of cash, never knowing a hardship, never worrying about anything except having to actually play a game.

If someone missed the sarcasm in the above, I’m sorry text doesn’t relay it well, but that is dripping with it so much, that someone on lsd could taste the sarcasm. It is probably bitter.

It’s been said countless times, but I’ll reiterate it: We do not expect, nor do we actually want, to be handed everything and not have to ‘play the game’. I too would say if you don’t want to play the game then why are you here (here as in the game, not the forum as this is obviously not playing gw2, just thought I should also state that). But, based on what Anet implied, many expected to be able to play HoT as the elite spec (and really, only having the minor trait is not what many would consider playing as the elite spec, and sure wasn’t the expectation, but apparently yes, that is what Anet considers it)

Whether you agree with the new legendaries requiring sPvP or not, I’d bet 99% see that as optional, not as a core part of HoT. Elite specs, on the other hand, were a big part of HoT. They were billed as a core part of it. Some people don’t seem to believe this… They should go back and watch the reveal of HoT. Reaper and Druid were made out to be a big deal.

They are a big deal, just not the only deal and also still optional. I for one have no interest in either Reaper nor Druid. My interest in Daredevil is the trait line exclusively, not the weapon nor the skills. My interest in Berzerker is the mechanic more than anything, and for scrapper it’s the weapon and traits. I’m not interested in the skills for any of them, because they’re optional. Only for Herald do I care about the skills.

Being able to get the first minor for Daredevil will tide me over for a long while because it includes an extra dodge, until I can finally get the dodge defining grandmaster major.

Mandalore.8906:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Mandalore.8906:

While i’m incredibly disappointed in that decision (i only started the game recently, hit 80 a couple of hours ago, and i only chose a necro as my first class because reaper looked so cool) and think that it majorly kittens over the more casual players…. considering you continue to earn hero points by “leveling up” after hitting 80, shouldn’t you people who played a lot over the past few years have thousands of hero points by now?

The system got changed recently. You have only a certain amount these days. A set amount for 1-80 levelling plus each skillpoint challenge. Or hero point challenge since the name change.

I don’t want to disagree with you, but… i’m level 80. My exp bar says 80 on the left, and 80 on the right. The bar says i need 254.000 experience points. I just went over that threshold, the bar resetted, and i went from 76 hero points to 77. And that has happened 5 or 6 times since i hit 80 a couple of hours ago. It’s 254.000 experience points every time, and i get a hero point every time.

No, you do not, unless you have a bug going on.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hero_point

Skill points worked that way yes, and unfortunately spirit shards are not a direct replacement. Get far less of them than skill points doing the same things, but that’s a different argument.

Mandalore.8906:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Mandalore.8906:

While i’m incredibly disappointed in that decision (i only started the game recently, hit 80 a couple of hours ago, and i only chose a necro as my first class because reaper looked so cool) and think that it majorly kittens over the more casual players…. considering you continue to earn hero points by “leveling up” after hitting 80, shouldn’t you people who played a lot over the past few years have thousands of hero points by now?

The system got changed recently. You have only a certain amount these days. A set amount for 1-80 levelling plus each skillpoint challenge. Or hero point challenge since the name change.

I don’t want to disagree with you, but… i’m level 80. My exp bar says 80 on the left, and 80 on the right. The bar says i need 254.000 experience points. I just went over that threshold, the bar resetted, and i went from 76 hero points to 77. And that has happened 5 or 6 times since i hit 80 a couple of hours ago. It’s 254.000 experience points every time, and i get a hero point every time.

well then your account is either buged or you mistook a spiritshard for a heropoint or you did lvlup by doing a heropoint.

Mandalore.8906:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Mandalore.8906:

While i’m incredibly disappointed in that decision (i only started the game recently, hit 80 a couple of hours ago, and i only chose a necro as my first class because reaper looked so cool) and think that it majorly kittens over the more casual players…. considering you continue to earn hero points by “leveling up” after hitting 80, shouldn’t you people who played a lot over the past few years have thousands of hero points by now?

The system got changed recently. You have only a certain amount these days. A set amount for 1-80 levelling plus each skillpoint challenge. Or hero point challenge since the name change.

I don’t want to disagree with you, but… i’m level 80. My exp bar says 80 on the left, and 80 on the right. The bar says i need 254.000 experience points. I just went over that threshold, the bar resetted, and i went from 76 hero points to 77. And that has happened 5 or 6 times since i hit 80 a couple of hours ago. It’s 254.000 experience points every time, and i get a hero point every time.

Either you’re not paying attention to the Hero Points you’ve been collecting while you play, you’re wrong, you’re lying or you have managed to be the only person somehow running under the old system. I personally suspect it’s the first one, because that’s not how the system works anymore.

FrizzFreston.5290:

TJgalon.5012:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Domey.9804:

i will farm heropoints in hot, and if there is an interresting mission/quest i will just skip it.

thats what anets wants me to do, and i do it

Edit: how many heropoints does this maguuma thingy have? i hope enough so that i dont have to farm the rest of tyria

As far as I understood. The jungle alone would have enough points for the entire specialisation reward track. You might want to check the red posts in this thread though.

The way I read it, Colin did say the core HP are not needed, but if you have them, your already boosted towards the goal. 200hp more or less in core, means 60 for elite unlock plus what ever else is needed after that towards the other unlocks.

Ah yeah. Thanks. I think having prepared already is definitely not a bad thing if you want to be able to unlock a great deal of the elite spec from the get go. Obviously, you might see it as putting in alot of unnescesary effort. But I believe that anyone who does want to be as prepared as possible have some sort of a headstart this way.

For those who didn’t do any preparation (like me) it also doesn’t mean you need to grind all the old content because you didn’t prepare. (Though at least my main character has done everything a year ago regardless. Plus I intend to play through everything at least once either way and don’t feel I need the elite spec for that anyway. But then my characters always grow as I play the game as opposed to seeing the elite spec as something I must have unlocked right away. As long as it comes on naturally and it’s an RPG style adventure where my character gets more abilities as I go through the jungle then I don’t really see how ArenaNet dropped the ball here.

But hey. That’s just how I see it. I just love character progression. And I thought that after unlocking all the masteries once there would be none at all. But it doesn’t seem to be the case, so I’m happy.

This really. I don’t see the problem with progressing the elite specs as you explore. Did those complaining ignore the whole game world when they made their characters to hunt skill points? (assuming leveling in the open world) You probably get excited when you earned enough skill points to get a new skill. You also probably explored in whatever way made you happy. This new system is just like that. It is a fine system. I think I will be happy whenever I unlock something new with this current system. Although, I am not against immediate unlocks, I don’t think this will be unfun.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

People keep repeating this like programmed drones…
specs are not content, they are the means to play it. It’s not that I don’t want to work for something, I don’t mind that, I just want my spec while doing it.

I want to play hot with a Chronomancer, not play hot and get a chronomancer at the end.

When Nightfall came out, did you get heroes automatically or did you have to play the new game to get them?
When Eye of the North came out, did you get PvE skills automatically or did you have to play the new expansion to get them?
When any of GW1’s games came out did you automatically have all skills – both normal and elites – unlocked?
When you start a new character on GW2 do you have all skills and specializations unlocked and accessible right away?
When you played Mass Effect games did you get all abilities unlocked and accessible right away?

Those are not content. Those are how you play the game. So according to you, they should all be free. Every skill, every ability, every gear should be free. Because “they are the means to play it.”

I’m “sorry” to say but unlocking more means to play a game is part of playing the game.

Every game with progression – which is just about every game ever – has this.

You do not start a Metroid game with the best armor, weapons, and all abilities. You do not start a DOOM game with all guns. You do not start Batman Arkham games with all abilities unlocked. You do not start an Assassin’s Creed game with all weapons and abilities. You do not start ANY game with everything unlocked.

People keep “repeating this like programmed drones” because that’s what it is – it’s asking to be handed an intregal part of the expansion on a silver platter.

You might as well be asking for the function of legendary armor to be given just because you bought the expansion.

Does this mean that their method of locking the elite spec is good? No. But should elite specializations just be automatically unlocked for purchasing HoT? Also no.

^This. I agree 100%.

Why play a game at all if you just given everything? If that was the way games were made you would pay $40-$50 bucks and after you downloaded it, all you would see is a fully loaded character with the end credits rolling.

I am looking forward to unlocking my elites. It gives a sense of accomplishment.

I also agree with Konig that it probably isn’t the greatest way we could have unlocked the elites, but however it is done, I am still glad we are unlocking them and not just having them handed to us.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

ArchonWing.9480:

One thing I don’t appreciate is some of the posters being accused of not wanting to “work” and “play the game”, especially when it’s defining “the game” as pve.

The game isn’t just about pve. Hey, let’s make it so that to unlock it, you have to do PvP, WvW, and PvE on every single character. What? You wanted stuff handed to you? Afraid of the challenge?

How many people were complaining about having to do WvW for map completion? And hell, I agreed with not forcing PvE’rs to WvW, because you know I had some degree of respect for their playstyle; unlike a lot of posts in this thread or forum that can’t even seem to think of anyone approaching the game differently. I mean, just look at how many random things people consider to be “exploits”. “Stacking in a dungeon is an exploit, because that’s not how I do it!”

I certainly didn’t appreciate pve elitists condescending to them, especially when the difference was the ability to follow a tag and blob down some enemy keep or pay gems to transfer to a stacked server. Sorry, I’m sure I’m not the only WvW’er that rolls their eyes when people tell their cute stories of getting to that Vista in Overlook. Give me a break. And hey, Anet saw the light there. And they thought of a WvW alternative too, so I’ll definitely credit them with that.

But it’s clear some elitists that think that grinding away in their form of progression is the only way worth playing in the game, and everyone else is entitled and spoiled when arguing that anyone who regularly plays WvW to be entitled to any degree is a horrific joke. Oh, and by the way, hopefully some of you discontent folks will raise a glass for this, but this aint just update content— we paid for this so it isn’t a charity case either.

And as I’ve said before, attacking someone personally, because they don’t want conform to your kitten gamer code is not really relevant to the discussion. I mean please, it’s not a high horse one is riding; we don’t have mounts in this game.

No, we are just entitled, spoiled, kitten brats (yes I did type kitten), that want everything handed to us on silver platters with silver spoons (why silver? Why not gold? Actually make that white gold for me please), while we sit on mounds of cash, never knowing a hardship, never worrying about anything except having to actually play a game.

If someone missed the sarcasm in the above, I’m sorry text doesn’t relay it well, but that is dripping with it so much, that someone on lsd could taste the sarcasm. It is probably bitter.

It’s been said countless times, but I’ll reiterate it: We do not expect, nor do we actually want, to be handed everything and not have to ‘play the game’. I too would say if you don’t want to play the game then why are you here (here as in the game, not the forum as this is obviously not playing gw2, just thought I should also state that). But, based on what Anet implied, many expected to be able to play HoT as the elite spec (and really, only having the minor trait is not what many would consider playing as the elite spec, and sure wasn’t the expectation, but apparently yes, that is what Anet considers it)

Whether you agree with the new legendaries requiring sPvP or not, I’d bet 99% see that as optional, not as a core part of HoT. Elite specs, on the other hand, were a big part of HoT. They were billed as a core part of it. Some people don’t seem to believe this… They should go back and watch the reveal of HoT. Reaper and Druid were made out to be a big deal.

They are a big deal, just not the only deal and also still optional. I for one have no interest in either Reaper nor Druid. My interest in Daredevil is the trait line exclusively, not the weapon nor the skills. My interest in Berzerker is the mechanic more than anything, and for scrapper it’s the weapon and traits. I’m not interested in the skills for any of them, because they’re optional. Only for Herald do I care about the skills.

Being able to get the first minor for Daredevil will tide me over for a long while because it includes an extra dodge, until I can finally get the dodge defining grandmaster major.

And I have no interest in Dragonhunter despite originally liking the idea of a bow on guardian (I feel it is very bad implementation but Anet is known for this x.x and ugh trapper runes) and believe that scrapper needs some serious work on balance as some aspects are far too strong. That doesn’t negate the fact that Anet treated Elite Specs as one of the primary features of HoT.

jheryn.8390:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

People keep repeating this like programmed drones…
specs are not content, they are the means to play it. It’s not that I don’t want to work for something, I don’t mind that, I just want my spec while doing it.

I want to play hot with a Chronomancer, not play hot and get a chronomancer at the end.

When Nightfall came out, did you get heroes automatically or did you have to play the new game to get them?
When Eye of the North came out, did you get PvE skills automatically or did you have to play the new expansion to get them?
When any of GW1’s games came out did you automatically have all skills – both normal and elites – unlocked?
When you start a new character on GW2 do you have all skills and specializations unlocked and accessible right away?
When you played Mass Effect games did you get all abilities unlocked and accessible right away?

Those are not content. Those are how you play the game. So according to you, they should all be free. Every skill, every ability, every gear should be free. Because “they are the means to play it.”

I’m “sorry” to say but unlocking more means to play a game is part of playing the game.

Every game with progression – which is just about every game ever – has this.

You do not start a Metroid game with the best armor, weapons, and all abilities. You do not start a DOOM game with all guns. You do not start Batman Arkham games with all abilities unlocked. You do not start an Assassin’s Creed game with all weapons and abilities. You do not start ANY game with everything unlocked.

People keep “repeating this like programmed drones” because that’s what it is – it’s asking to be handed an intregal part of the expansion on a silver platter.

You might as well be asking for the function of legendary armor to be given just because you bought the expansion.

Does this mean that their method of locking the elite spec is good? No. But should elite specializations just be automatically unlocked for purchasing HoT? Also no.

^This. I agree 100%.

Why play a game at all if you just given everything? If that was the way games were made you would pay $40-$50 bucks and after you downloaded it, all you would see is a fully loaded character with the end credits rolling.

I am looking forward to unlocking my elites. It gives a sense of accomplishment.

I also agree with Konig that it probably isn’t the greatest way we could have unlocked the elites, but however it is done, I am still glad we are unlocking them and not just having them handed to us.

That is precisely not what anyone is actually saying, it’s just what a number of people keep accusing others of saying.

So, by same logic, would it be fair to say, “Why did you come to the forum and post, if you were going to ignore every post in the thread before”? But hey, why listen to others if you can just tell them they are asking for everything to be handed to them.

Many aren’t even against a way to ‘unlock’ these specs. I expected to do so, via story. Yet that isn’t how it’s being done. It’s being put behind hero points. And you can bet at least some hero challenges are locked behind masteries. And, since we don’t expect each map to have 20 hero challenges, you have a pretty good idea that you’ll be far into HoT before you can get your grandmaster traits. But hey, we’ll have a clearer understanding tomorrow (well tonight for those staying up late in the western hemisphere) of the hero challenges, what they are effectively gated behind, and the costs of everything in the elite spec training…

On plus sides, since I’m expecting it to cost at least 300 hero points just to get the traits, maybe 100 left over for the skins, anything else on the trait costs will be a good thing right? -_-

Edited Addendum: Let me add that, we WANT to play the content. We’ve been starved on new content for far too long. However, we do not want to be forced to rush the maps just to get an elite spec on each character. People want to enjoy it at a pace of their choosing, not complete it quickly on multiple characters before you can do so. Because of this, some are going to be rushing the hero points as fast as they can, that would not have otherwise done so. There are plans for HP Trains, although I still fully believe some will be gated behind masteries, so it may be a XP/(mastery point or MP)/HP train, which if it’s not the ideal loot method, could end up crashing with the ‘loot trains’ that people would inevitably try to set up later, and all that would be on top of the people that just want to explore the maps fully. Others, are considering avoiding the jungle as much as possible, level revenants or other characters, and see what happens with the chaos.

jheryn.8390:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

People keep repeating this like programmed drones…
specs are not content, they are the means to play it. It’s not that I don’t want to work for something, I don’t mind that, I just want my spec while doing it.

I want to play hot with a Chronomancer, not play hot and get a chronomancer at the end.

When Nightfall came out, did you get heroes automatically or did you have to play the new game to get them?
When Eye of the North came out, did you get PvE skills automatically or did you have to play the new expansion to get them?
When any of GW1’s games came out did you automatically have all skills – both normal and elites – unlocked?
When you start a new character on GW2 do you have all skills and specializations unlocked and accessible right away?
When you played Mass Effect games did you get all abilities unlocked and accessible right away?

Those are not content. Those are how you play the game. So according to you, they should all be free. Every skill, every ability, every gear should be free. Because “they are the means to play it.”

I’m “sorry” to say but unlocking more means to play a game is part of playing the game.

Every game with progression – which is just about every game ever – has this.

You do not start a Metroid game with the best armor, weapons, and all abilities. You do not start a DOOM game with all guns. You do not start Batman Arkham games with all abilities unlocked. You do not start an Assassin’s Creed game with all weapons and abilities. You do not start ANY game with everything unlocked.

People keep “repeating this like programmed drones” because that’s what it is – it’s asking to be handed an intregal part of the expansion on a silver platter.

You might as well be asking for the function of legendary armor to be given just because you bought the expansion.

Does this mean that their method of locking the elite spec is good? No. But should elite specializations just be automatically unlocked for purchasing HoT? Also no.

^This. I agree 100%.

Why play a game at all if you just given everything? If that was the way games were made you would pay $40-$50 bucks and after you downloaded it, all you would see is a fully loaded character with the end credits rolling.

I am looking forward to unlocking my elites. It gives a sense of accomplishment.

I also agree with Konig that it probably isn’t the greatest way we could have unlocked the elites, but however it is done, I am still glad we are unlocking them and not just having them handed to us.

I disagree if you think progression of this form is “everything” and there couldn’t be a reason to play it for anything else. I am of the mindset that in-game progression is limited and has a finite end— this is probably because I haven’t played any other MMOs and thus I just don’t seek that kind of thing. And as a WvW player, I would consider testing my abilities against other players to be a form of progression, plus we have our own forms of progression in World vs World; it’s just that some of us are doing unrelated content for this progression.

And this isn’t just WvW. I also like how some pve content such as dungeon can be made so trivial by getting better at it, and a lot of it is independent of build.

Point is the game is a lot more open ended, and progression takes many forms

Furthermore, people aren’t just complaining about 400 hero points; it’s 400 hero points per character, and it leads to a situation in many progression based games that I never liked personally: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OneManParty Basically, you’re gimping yourself unless you focus on one or several characters, and that results in other choices being very underpowered and often not used at all.

This is often cyclic, with one character becoming slightly stronger, making it more likely for them to land the finishing blow, or survive the boss’s attacks, leading to them gaining more levels and strength, making it easier for them to kill the enemies and survive and so on…

And depending on how the meta evolves, this could be far more impacting than ascended gear especially with the inclusion of raids.

As a side note, I’m not against unlocking progression things, just the way most games handle it seem to be bad for me. The only big exceptions in my book is Diablo 2 and the Mega Man X series, which I’d be glad to elaborate on.

I think its a question of how unique do you want ppl to be beyond skins? If things are harder you will see less of something making it more unique the easier things are the less unique.

You can play the game with out the elite spec and you got to make a real chose of what your going to work on getting. For the most part ppl will only get one elite spec for the first few weeks so in that time elite spec at least the odd ball ones will be very unique to play vs with or to play your self. I think a bit of pain of waiting and work is worth that feeling.

Just image how rare a rev’s elite spec is going to be in the fist few weeks maybe months. To play with one or to be one is going to be the “it” player. Ppl where fearful of rev being 80 in one day and they will but to truly play the rev in its “fullness” its going to be weeks to months of game play before you see it.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Menadena.7482:

Ranael.6423:

Bettik.4982:

Ranael.6423:

I really can’t feel sorry for those people. Nobody ever said that doing World Completion will grant a big advantage to Espec unlock, ever. People assumed it would and played accordingly.

They did say, “The new system will come to the live game before the launch of Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns™, allowing players to experience the changes to core specializations and stockpile Hero Points for their elite specializations. While elite specializations will be available to everyone who purchases the expansion, the upcoming core specialization changes will affect the base game.”
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/ready-up-core-specializations-summary/

Yeah I know that article. So yes stockpile…
In fact those who have done so have a 50% advantage on the other, you can have up to half your mastery track unlocked in 18 hours…. not so bad. I don’t see written “… and stockpile Hero Points to fully unlock their elite specialization as soon as the expansion will be released”

It is interesting to hear Colin say world completion was around 200 points (he does not know the #? really?). World completion is 179 points. Yes, I know there are more in the borderlands and such, but they have not been part of world completion for awhile now.

I had figured I would get to 140 or so then do a LFG so a bunch of us could help each other with the challenges we were each unable to solo. I have all of my characters above 100 and my original plans were to have my ones most in need of the new specs to have at least 120 by launch.

Don’t know what world completion you’re going, but I have over 200 points and I’m not even done on my Theif

Open a map sometime and you will see the number it counts in the upper left.

Vavume.8065:

Endlos.4852:

Vavume.8065:

SamTheGuardian.2938:

My biggest problem with it is this, why am I being forced to unlock core specializations that I never use in order to get to my Elite Spec?

You do not become a blackbelt in matrial arts without first obtaining the lower level belts, its basically the same theory.

This is a bad analogy, and doesn’t fit the rhetoric we were fed regarding “Elite” Specializations. Per the developers themselves, Elite Specs aren’t supposed to be direct upgrades.

Actually It’s a perfectly good analogy, Elite specs are something you have to work up to, just as you do with a black belt, you cannot skip stages, and you cannot skip traitlines, all must be completed first before unlocking the elite. I’m sorry if you are unable to see that, but it’s a fact.

Nope, it’s faulty logic; I spent 5 long paragraphs empirically destroying your analogy. If you’re going to quote out my first two sentences, then plug your ears and parrot “Nah, you’re wrong” without acknowledging anything else I wrote, then I’m sorry you are unable to see the facts. At least I now know to just skip over your posts in the future to save myself a bit of time when I’m keeping up with the thread.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Menadena.7482:

Ranael.6423:

Bettik.4982:

Ranael.6423:

I really can’t feel sorry for those people. Nobody ever said that doing World Completion will grant a big advantage to Espec unlock, ever. People assumed it would and played accordingly.

They did say, “The new system will come to the live game before the launch of Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns™, allowing players to experience the changes to core specializations and stockpile Hero Points for their elite specializations. While elite specializations will be available to everyone who purchases the expansion, the upcoming core specialization changes will affect the base game.”
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/ready-up-core-specializations-summary/

Yeah I know that article. So yes stockpile…
In fact those who have done so have a 50% advantage on the other, you can have up to half your mastery track unlocked in 18 hours…. not so bad. I don’t see written “… and stockpile Hero Points to fully unlock their elite specialization as soon as the expansion will be released”

It is interesting to hear Colin say world completion was around 200 points (he does not know the #? really?). World completion is 179 points. Yes, I know there are more in the borderlands and such, but they have not been part of world completion for awhile now.

I had figured I would get to 140 or so then do a LFG so a bunch of us could help each other with the challenges we were each unable to solo. I have all of my characters above 100 and my original plans were to have my ones most in need of the new specs to have at least 120 by launch.

Don’t know what world completion you’re going, but I have over 200 points and I’m not even done on my Theif

According to wiki there are only 202 hero challenges in the (current) world (189 pve, 3 per bl, and 4 in eb). Oddly, I could swear that have 214 on my ele, and she has everything unlocked. Confuzzled….

Gonna have to recheck that when I get home.

Ah, 189 …. I was thinking 1-something-nine but goofed the 7 for an 8. Part of the problem is all the HPs used to be part of world completion. Since they are still there to do (whether you do them now or before the change) it means your hero points may or may not be equal to how many hero point challenges the main map says you have done.

My ranger picked up a few in the SW. This caused a huge ‘huh?’ from me trying to figure out the discrepancy.

Menadena.7482:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Menadena.7482:

Ranael.6423:

Bettik.4982:

Ranael.6423:

I really can’t feel sorry for those people. Nobody ever said that doing World Completion will grant a big advantage to Espec unlock, ever. People assumed it would and played accordingly.

They did say, “The new system will come to the live game before the launch of Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns™, allowing players to experience the changes to core specializations and stockpile Hero Points for their elite specializations. While elite specializations will be available to everyone who purchases the expansion, the upcoming core specialization changes will affect the base game.”
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/ready-up-core-specializations-summary/

Yeah I know that article. So yes stockpile…
In fact those who have done so have a 50% advantage on the other, you can have up to half your mastery track unlocked in 18 hours…. not so bad. I don’t see written “… and stockpile Hero Points to fully unlock their elite specialization as soon as the expansion will be released”

It is interesting to hear Colin say world completion was around 200 points (he does not know the #? really?). World completion is 179 points. Yes, I know there are more in the borderlands and such, but they have not been part of world completion for awhile now.

I had figured I would get to 140 or so then do a LFG so a bunch of us could help each other with the challenges we were each unable to solo. I have all of my characters above 100 and my original plans were to have my ones most in need of the new specs to have at least 120 by launch.

Don’t know what world completion you’re going, but I have over 200 points and I’m not even done on my Theif

According to wiki there are only 202 hero challenges in the (current) world (189 pve, 3 per bl, and 4 in eb). Oddly, I could swear that have 214 on my ele, and she has everything unlocked. Confuzzled….

Gonna have to recheck that when I get home.

Ah, 189 …. I was thinking 1-something-nine but goofed the 7 for an 8. Part of the problem is all the HPs used to be part of world completion. Since they are still there to do (whether you do them now or before the change) it means your hero points may or may not be equal to how many hero point challenges the main map says you have done.

My ranger picked up a few in the SW. This caused a huge ‘huh?’ from me trying to figure out the discrepancy.

Which is why I have the excel spreadsheet for HPs lol. Makes it easier to track considering the number of 80s I have.

Had a Great Time last night on our 30 Hero Point Run: http://imgur.com/a/9qrpa

Tonight 10/22 is the original 70 Point Run!

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3pi5l2/hero_point_rush_resurgence_1021_1022_30_new/

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

ArchonWing.9480:

One thing I don’t appreciate is some of the posters being accused of not wanting to “work” and “play the game”, especially when it’s defining “the game” as pve.

The game isn’t just about pve. Hey, let’s make it so that to unlock it, you have to do PvP, WvW, and PvE on every single character. What? You wanted stuff handed to you? Afraid of the challenge?

How many people were complaining about having to do WvW for map completion? And hell, I agreed with not forcing PvE’rs to WvW, because you know I had some degree of respect for their playstyle; unlike a lot of posts in this thread or forum that can’t even seem to think of anyone approaching the game differently. I mean, just look at how many random things people consider to be “exploits”. “Stacking in a dungeon is an exploit, because that’s not how I do it!”

I certainly didn’t appreciate pve elitists condescending to them, especially when the difference was the ability to follow a tag and blob down some enemy keep or pay gems to transfer to a stacked server. Sorry, I’m sure I’m not the only WvW’er that rolls their eyes when people tell their cute stories of getting to that Vista in Overlook. Give me a break. And hey, Anet saw the light there. And they thought of a WvW alternative too, so I’ll definitely credit them with that.

But it’s clear some elitists that think that grinding away in their form of progression is the only way worth playing in the game, and everyone else is entitled and spoiled when arguing that anyone who regularly plays WvW to be entitled to any degree is a horrific joke. Oh, and by the way, hopefully some of you discontent folks will raise a glass for this, but this aint just update content— we paid for this so it isn’t a charity case either.

And as I’ve said before, attacking someone personally, because they don’t want conform to your kitten gamer code is not really relevant to the discussion. I mean please, it’s not a high horse one is riding; we don’t have mounts in this game.

No, we are just entitled, spoiled, kitten brats (yes I did type kitten), that want everything handed to us on silver platters with silver spoons (why silver? Why not gold? Actually make that white gold for me please), while we sit on mounds of cash, never knowing a hardship, never worrying about anything except having to actually play a game.

If someone missed the sarcasm in the above, I’m sorry text doesn’t relay it well, but that is dripping with it so much, that someone on lsd could taste the sarcasm. It is probably bitter.

It’s been said countless times, but I’ll reiterate it: We do not expect, nor do we actually want, to be handed everything and not have to ‘play the game’. I too would say if you don’t want to play the game then why are you here (here as in the game, not the forum as this is obviously not playing gw2, just thought I should also state that). But, based on what Anet implied, many expected to be able to play HoT as the elite spec (and really, only having the minor trait is not what many would consider playing as the elite spec, and sure wasn’t the expectation, but apparently yes, that is what Anet considers it)

Whether you agree with the new legendaries requiring sPvP or not, I’d bet 99% see that as optional, not as a core part of HoT. Elite specs, on the other hand, were a big part of HoT. They were billed as a core part of it. Some people don’t seem to believe this… They should go back and watch the reveal of HoT. Reaper and Druid were made out to be a big deal.

They are a big deal, just not the only deal and also still optional. I for one have no interest in either Reaper nor Druid. My interest in Daredevil is the trait line exclusively, not the weapon nor the skills. My interest in Berzerker is the mechanic more than anything, and for scrapper it’s the weapon and traits. I’m not interested in the skills for any of them, because they’re optional. Only for Herald do I care about the skills.

Being able to get the first minor for Daredevil will tide me over for a long while because it includes an extra dodge, until I can finally get the dodge defining grandmaster major.

And I have no interest in Dragonhunter despite originally liking the idea of a bow on guardian (I feel it is very bad implementation but Anet is known for this x.x and ugh trapper runes) and believe that scrapper needs some serious work on balance as some aspects are far too strong. That doesn’t negate the fact that Anet treated Elite Specs as one of the primary features of HoT.

They also treated Raids and Guild Halls as primary features, because they absolutely are. Yet Raiding is locked behind skill, gear and story progression, while Guild Halls are locked behind resource requirements that will likely make some guilds unable to aquire them for a very long time.

Just because something is a primary feature, or a selling point does not mean it is or should be immediately accessible.

Domey.9804:

i will farm heropoints in hot, and if there is an interresting mission/quest i will just skip it.

thats what anets wants me to do, and i do it

Edit: how many heropoints does this maguuma thingy have? i hope enough so that i dont have to farm the rest of tyria

This post is one of the many on here, do not be so bitter. If you do not like it just stop playing that is the best way to show you do not like something. No reason to come on the forums and have a pout post.

Sorry to single you out since there are so many posts in this thread like this. Yours just was the first on this page.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

ArchonWing.9480:

One thing I don’t appreciate is some of the posters being accused of not wanting to “work” and “play the game”, especially when it’s defining “the game” as pve.

The game isn’t just about pve. Hey, let’s make it so that to unlock it, you have to do PvP, WvW, and PvE on every single character. What? You wanted stuff handed to you? Afraid of the challenge?

How many people were complaining about having to do WvW for map completion? And hell, I agreed with not forcing PvE’rs to WvW, because you know I had some degree of respect for their playstyle; unlike a lot of posts in this thread or forum that can’t even seem to think of anyone approaching the game differently. I mean, just look at how many random things people consider to be “exploits”. “Stacking in a dungeon is an exploit, because that’s not how I do it!”

I certainly didn’t appreciate pve elitists condescending to them, especially when the difference was the ability to follow a tag and blob down some enemy keep or pay gems to transfer to a stacked server. Sorry, I’m sure I’m not the only WvW’er that rolls their eyes when people tell their cute stories of getting to that Vista in Overlook. Give me a break. And hey, Anet saw the light there. And they thought of a WvW alternative too, so I’ll definitely credit them with that.

But it’s clear some elitists that think that grinding away in their form of progression is the only way worth playing in the game, and everyone else is entitled and spoiled when arguing that anyone who regularly plays WvW to be entitled to any degree is a horrific joke. Oh, and by the way, hopefully some of you discontent folks will raise a glass for this, but this aint just update content— we paid for this so it isn’t a charity case either.

And as I’ve said before, attacking someone personally, because they don’t want conform to your kitten gamer code is not really relevant to the discussion. I mean please, it’s not a high horse one is riding; we don’t have mounts in this game.

No, we are just entitled, spoiled, kitten brats (yes I did type kitten), that want everything handed to us on silver platters with silver spoons (why silver? Why not gold? Actually make that white gold for me please), while we sit on mounds of cash, never knowing a hardship, never worrying about anything except having to actually play a game.

If someone missed the sarcasm in the above, I’m sorry text doesn’t relay it well, but that is dripping with it so much, that someone on lsd could taste the sarcasm. It is probably bitter.

It’s been said countless times, but I’ll reiterate it: We do not expect, nor do we actually want, to be handed everything and not have to ‘play the game’. I too would say if you don’t want to play the game then why are you here (here as in the game, not the forum as this is obviously not playing gw2, just thought I should also state that). But, based on what Anet implied, many expected to be able to play HoT as the elite spec (and really, only having the minor trait is not what many would consider playing as the elite spec, and sure wasn’t the expectation, but apparently yes, that is what Anet considers it)

Whether you agree with the new legendaries requiring sPvP or not, I’d bet 99% see that as optional, not as a core part of HoT. Elite specs, on the other hand, were a big part of HoT. They were billed as a core part of it. Some people don’t seem to believe this… They should go back and watch the reveal of HoT. Reaper and Druid were made out to be a big deal.

They are a big deal, just not the only deal and also still optional. I for one have no interest in either Reaper nor Druid. My interest in Daredevil is the trait line exclusively, not the weapon nor the skills. My interest in Berzerker is the mechanic more than anything, and for scrapper it’s the weapon and traits. I’m not interested in the skills for any of them, because they’re optional. Only for Herald do I care about the skills.

Being able to get the first minor for Daredevil will tide me over for a long while because it includes an extra dodge, until I can finally get the dodge defining grandmaster major.

And I have no interest in Dragonhunter despite originally liking the idea of a bow on guardian (I feel it is very bad implementation but Anet is known for this x.x and ugh trapper runes) and believe that scrapper needs some serious work on balance as some aspects are far too strong. That doesn’t negate the fact that Anet treated Elite Specs as one of the primary features of HoT.

They also treated Raids and Guild Halls as primary features, because they absolutely are. Yet Raiding is locked behind skill, gear and story progression, while Guild Halls are locked behind resource requirements that will likely make some guilds unable to aquire them for a very long time.

Just because something is a primary feature, or a selling point does not mean it is or should be immediately accessible.

Raids are inherently hardcore content. They were meant to be exclusive and thus no expectation of access can be demanded. Guild Halls are meant to be done as a group, plus once you capture the hall, that’s it; hardly grindy.

Plus we were told quite a while back about the halls and thus could prepare. So no surprises.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

That is precisely not what anyone is actually saying, it’s just what a number of people keep accusing others of saying.

That is exactly what SOME people are saying. I never implied that EVERYONE was saying that. Obviously they are not since I agreed with Konig.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

So, by same logic, would it be fair to say, “Why did you come to the forum and post, if you were going to ignore every post in the thread before”? But hey, why listen to others if you can just tell them they are asking for everything to be handed to them.

That is logic? I have been following this thread since day one. I have read every post. There is no logic to anything you just said. I didn’t accuse everyone of asking for everything. I have read every post in this thread. You. Have. No. Logic. Only assumptions that are wrong.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Many aren’t even against a way to ‘unlock’ these specs. I expected to do so, via story. Yet that isn’t how it’s being done. It’s being put behind hero points.

Since you were accusing me of not reading posts, I’ll throw that right back at you. I said it was not the best way to unlock the specs. #readingcomprehension

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Edited Addendum: Let me add that, we WANT to play the content. We’ve been starved on new content for far too long. However, we do not want to be forced to rush the maps just to get an elite spec on each character.

Who is rushing you to do anything? If you want the Elite Specs right now, then I guess you will have to rush. No one is forcing you to do anything. You choose what you want to do.

ArchonWing.9480:

I disagree if you think progression of this form is “everything” and there couldn’t be a reason to play it for anything else. [SNIP]
Point is the game is a lot more open ended, and progression takes many forms.

I don’t think it is “everything”. I didn’t say that it was. And yes progression does take many forms. This is one of the forms put before us and we have to deal with it. So anyone can disagree with me or anyone else, it doesn’t change the fact that this is the way it is happening.

ArchonWing.9480:

Furthermore, people aren’t just complaining about 400 hero points; it’s 400 hero points per character, and it leads to a situation in many progression based games that I never liked personally: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OneManParty Basically, you’re gimping yourself unless you focus on one or several characters, and that results in other choices being very underpowered and often not used at all.

Again, I did not say that all people were complaining about the 400 points. Read the posts, many people are in fact complaining about that very thing. I have 2 mains and 15 alts. So yes it will take a LONG time to get all of them up to Elite Specs. But underpowered, I don’t think so. Many of the elites are no better than the core specs. They are on equal footing IMO and in the opinion of many others.

ArchonWing.9480:

This is often cyclic, with one character becoming slightly stronger, making it more likely for them to land the finishing blow, or survive the boss’s attacks, leading to them gaining more levels and strength, making it easier for them to kill the enemies and survive and so on…

How is this different than it is right now? These elite specs are not going to change that. The better player with or without an elite spec will always come out on top.

ArchonWing.9480:

And depending on how the meta evolves, this could be far more impacting than ascended gear especially with the inclusion of raids.

Again, you can choose to spend your time unlocking these points. That is up to you. It will be different for everyone. I personally couldn’t care less about being “meta”. I know that is very important for some, but certainly not all.

This is the way it has been put before us. How we each decide to deal with it is a personal choice. Complaining and bemoaning about it at this point isn’t going to make it change. The expansion is tomorrow. Do you think they are going to change it before then? We either you deal with it or not. There is no debate at this point. Only complaining.

I’m still waiting for the mass exodus of people who find the idea of playing the game to earn character progression offensive and unacceptable.

Or for that matter the mass exodus of people that swore the game would fold under some massive revolt when ascended was added to the game in 2012

As far as I can tell it isn’t happening. People will complain about this for maybe another week, and then completely forget about it. The handful of people that leave the game over something so silly will not be missed, and the people that stick around will simply become accustomed to it.

If they make it easier later those same people will make another whine thread about how all their “hard work” was “devalued” and how much it’s a “slap in the face” to “veteran players”

Honestly. How many times can the sky be falling in a year without it actually falling?

So, I get that elites are supposed to be worked for, endgame content, progression for a char, yada, yada.

If we need to play through the jungle in order to fully use the elite spec, then once the jungle content is done and we’ve got the spec, what content exactly are we supposed to use the elite on? Seems like at this point, everything will have been done until the next expac content….

jheryn.8390:

I don’t think it is “everything”. I didn’t say that it was. And yes progression does take many forms. This is one of the forms put before us and we have to deal with it. So anyone can disagree with me or anyone else, it doesn’t change the fact that this is the way it is happening.

Then why did you use such hyperbole about being handed everything in the context of this topic, besides trying to suggest people wanted to be handed everything?

Again, I did not say that all people were complaining about the 400 points. Read the posts, many people are in fact complaining about that very thing. I have 2 mains and 15 alts. So yes it will take a LONG time to get all of them up to Elite Specs. But underpowered, I don’t think so. Many of the elites are no better than the core specs. They are on equal footing IMO and in the opinion of many others.

I said “people aren’t just complaining”, not that nobody is complaining about just having 400 points— I don’t think that would be a problem.

How is this different than it is right now? These elite specs are not going to change that. The better player with or without an elite spec will always come out on top.

Considering all current specs are unlocked by level 80, it is different. You can argue the degree of difference. Then again people complain about being shunned about not having the right class or having the marginal diffrence in ascended gear. I think this could be a bigger deal.

Again, you can choose to spend your time unlocking these points. That is up to you. It will be different for everyone. I personally couldn’t care less about being “meta”. I know that is very important for some, but certainly not all.

In a vacuum, I would agree. But in WvW, the difference isn’t just completing content faster or slower.

This is the way it has been put before us. How we each decide to deal with it is a personal choice. Complaining and bemoaning about it at this point isn’t going to make it change. The expansion is tomorrow. Do you think they are going to change it before then? We either you deal with it or not. There is no debate at this point. Only complaining.

I disagree wholeheartedly. Whether or not you disagree with people; what you call complaining is discussion and things can change.

WvW map completion? Obsolete
Gold based trait unlock? Obsolete
Fractal Reward levels and ascended gear? Used to be Soulbound, now Account Bound
Gem Interface? Custom Exchange Added
WvW Gear salvage? Soon possible.

Some people complain not because they hate the game, but because it could be in their opinion better. And Arenanet hasn’t been afraid to change things.

It may not change tomorrow, but silencing discussion for future change isn’t acceptable. It took constant pestering on behalf of users to make it happen, and sometimes it does lead to new changes.

Celtic Lady.3729:

So, I get that elites are supposed to be worked for, endgame content, progression for a char, yada, yada.

If we need to play through the jungle in order to fully use the elite spec, then once the jungle content is done and we’ve got the spec, what content exactly are we supposed to use the elite on? Seems like at this point, everything will have been done until the next expac content….

You get that the content doesn’t go away, right? All of the content in the game is always there, forever.

In HoT even the personal story is replayable completely, including the ability to make different choices.

Celtic Lady.3729:

So, I get that elites are supposed to be worked for, endgame content, progression for a char, yada, yada.

If we need to play through the jungle in order to fully use the elite spec, then once the jungle content is done and we’ve got the spec, what content exactly are we supposed to use the elite on? Seems like at this point, everything will have been done until the next expac content….

Well, I mean, if you’re playing now you’ve been using the same specs on the same content for like years. At least in this case you’ve got 50 more fractal levels, and new LS and raid releases to look forward to, and It’s pretty unlikely you’ll have hit all the content by the time that stuff is trained since that whole mastry system is kinda designed to pace that content out, right?

Also, don’t forget all dat farmin’ for guild upgrades, core map rewards system, 50 more fractal levels(with not one new fractal, boo anet, fix that) adventure high scores etc. etc.

Most of MMOs is repeating stuff after all. The question people should really ask is “how much fun is it to repeat this stuff?”

If they did their job right you’ll probably want to run around those jungle maps more than one time.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Celtic Lady.3729:

So, I get that elites are supposed to be worked for, endgame content, progression for a char, yada, yada.

If we need to play through the jungle in order to fully use the elite spec, then once the jungle content is done and we’ve got the spec, what content exactly are we supposed to use the elite on? Seems like at this point, everything will have been done until the next expac content….

You get that the content doesn’t go away, right? All of the content in the game is always there, forever.

In HoT even the personal story is replayable completely, including the ability to make different choices.

Yeah, but once the content is done the first time on that particular char, it’s done. Why am I going to do it again? Also, I hadn’t heard that every single part of the new map completions in the jungle were totally repeatable. And again, why would I do that on the same char?

Would like to point out that this thread is rapidly approaching the number of views that most patch note threads have, and that talking in chat so far has yielded around only one in five people actually knowing about this, with around 3 of 5 usually responding with “that’s stupid” or similar responses.

@Pope:

Whether or not people leave, I don’t know. But I mean grocery stores could decide to mark up prices by 500%. I mean, nobody needs luxuries/snack foods or pre-prepared meals, no? The money spent on doritos in the past could have gone towards more ingredients to make dinner with. It wouldn’t make their customers very happy if they did this, though, but people would still probably buy food for three meals a day to satisfy their hunger, when in reality they can sustain themselves just fine on only a few hundred calories per day.

And if they realize they’re hurting people? Well, you’re basically saying it wouldn’t be justified to reduce prices because people would complain that they “wasted money on overpriced food in the past.”

That’s effectively your analogy. Exaggerated, slightly. But ethics-wise, it’s pretty much identical. It’s not that the sky is falling; it’s that this is just blatantly screwing people over for no real reason and a portion of their customer base is upset about it.

In another context, why did “the 99%” get so upset? It’s not like “the 1%” are that rich. Maybe those scumbag wanting things on sliver platters should have just worked harder and dealt with their problems instead of whining about any potential legitimate inhibitions. Not that I agree with the mentality in full, but you get the point.

Or maybe you don’t.

I mean, child factory labor wasn’t holding back children from getting an education, right? I mean the world wasn’t suffering from it; the quality of cheap goods was at its best, and there were plenty of well-educated children in the world who grew up to be successful. Right?

</s></rant></dumbstruck>

PopeUrban.2578:

Celtic Lady.3729:

So, I get that elites are supposed to be worked for, endgame content, progression for a char, yada, yada.

If we need to play through the jungle in order to fully use the elite spec, then once the jungle content is done and we’ve got the spec, what content exactly are we supposed to use the elite on? Seems like at this point, everything will have been done until the next expac content….

Well, I mean, if you’re playing now you’ve been using the same specs on the same content for like years. At least in this case you’ve got 50 more fractal levels, and new LS and raid releases to look forward to, and It’s pretty unlikely you’ll have hit all the content by the time that stuff is trained since that whole mastry system is kinda designed to pace that content out, right?

Also, don’t forget all dat farmin’ for guild upgrades, core map rewards system, 50 more fractal levels(with not one new fractal, boo anet, fix that) adventure high scores etc. etc.

Most of MMOs is repeating stuff after all. The question people should really ask is “how much fun is it to repeat this stuff?”

If they did their job right you’ll probably want to run around those jungle maps more than one time.

Okay, see, this is what I’m asking. You get it. So I can use the elite spec in fractals later, possibly raids later, LS updates when they add them…so there is some stuff to actually use the elite specs on, but it’s still a disappointment to those that wanted to use their elites in order to complete all the jungle content on each char.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Celtic Lady.3729:

So, I get that elites are supposed to be worked for, endgame content, progression for a char, yada, yada.

If we need to play through the jungle in order to fully use the elite spec, then once the jungle content is done and we’ve got the spec, what content exactly are we supposed to use the elite on? Seems like at this point, everything will have been done until the next expac content….

You get that the content doesn’t go away, right? All of the content in the game is always there, forever.

In HoT even the personal story is replayable completely, including the ability to make different choices.

Yeah, but once the content is done the first time on that particular char, it’s done. Why am I going to do it again? Also, I hadn’t heard that every single part of the new map completions in the jungle were totally repeatable. And again, why would I do that on the same char?

No you’re right. Why would you ever play a character again once you’ve done all the things? I mean, you might as well just delete it and start again, right?

Your question makes no sense.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Celtic Lady.3729:

So, I get that elites are supposed to be worked for, endgame content, progression for a char, yada, yada.

If we need to play through the jungle in order to fully use the elite spec, then once the jungle content is done and we’ve got the spec, what content exactly are we supposed to use the elite on? Seems like at this point, everything will have been done until the next expac content….

You get that the content doesn’t go away, right? All of the content in the game is always there, forever.

In HoT even the personal story is replayable completely, including the ability to make different choices.

Yeah, but once the content is done the first time on that particular char, it’s done. Why am I going to do it again? Also, I hadn’t heard that every single part of the new map completions in the jungle were totally repeatable. And again, why would I do that on the same char?

No you’re right. Why would you ever play a character again once you’ve done all the things? I mean, you might as well just delete it and start again, right?

Your question makes no sense.

It’s all good. PopeUrban answered my question already. Thanks for trying, though.

DeceiverX.8361:

Would like to point out that this thread is rapidly approaching the number of views that most patch note threads have, and that talking in chat so far has yielded around only one in five people actually knowing about this, with around 3 of 5 usually responding with “that’s stupid” or similar responses.

@Pope:

Whether or not people leave, I don’t know. But I mean grocery stores could decide to mark up prices by 500%. I mean, nobody needs luxuries/snack foods or pre-prepared meals, no? The money spent on doritos in the past could have gone towards more ingredients to make dinner with. It wouldn’t make their customers very happy if they did this, though, but people would still probably buy food for three meals a day to satisfy their hunger, when in reality they can sustain themselves just fine on only a few hundred calories per day.

And if they realize they’re hurting people? Well, you’re basically saying it wouldn’t be justified to reduce prices because people would complain that they “wasted money on overpriced food in the past.”

That’s effectively your analogy. Exaggerated, slightly. But ethics-wise, it’s pretty much identical. It’s not that the sky is falling; it’s that this is just blatantly screwing people over for no real reason and a portion of their customer base is upset about it.

In another context, why did “the 99%” get so upset? It’s not like “the 1%” are that rich. Maybe those scumbag wanting things on sliver platters should have just worked harder and dealt with their problems instead of whining about any potential legitimate inhibitions. Not that I agree with the mentality in full, but you get the point.

Or maybe you don’t.

I mean, child factory labor wasn’t holding back children from getting an education, right? I mean the world wasn’t suffering from it; the quality of cheap goods was at its best, and there were plenty of well-educated children in the world who grew up to be successful. Right?

</s></rant></dumbstruck>

I think the exaggeration is the idea that this is somehow screwing people over.

It’s a progression system designed for characters who have been maxed out for years, a replacement for “just add 10 more levels and another tier of gear”

I think the problem Anet had was the way they communicated it. People somehow got it in their heads that masteries were progression and specs were not. Clearly, the intent is that they are two sides of the same system. specs, as class specific things are character based progression. Masteries, as class-neutral things with a grind point that actually would make it nearly impossible to advance on multiple characters, are account things.

I’ll turn the snark off and just state my honest opinion:

People are overreacting to this. People have been pandered to so frequently by Anet that now that anet has realized that was a mistake and is rectifying the problem with meaningful progression and difficulty they are freaking out.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I honestly believe that the way it’s laid out is good for the game, not only in the short term, but for the long view of ongoing updates and adding new specs and masteries.

ArchonWing.9480:

jheryn.8390:

I don’t think it is “everything”. I didn’t say that it was. And yes progression does take many forms. This is one of the forms put before us and we have to deal with it. So anyone can disagree with me or anyone else, it doesn’t change the fact that this is the way it is happening.

Then why did you use such hyperbole about being handed everything in the context of this topic, besides trying to suggest people wanted to be handed everything?

Because many of them are. Again, I didn’t accuse everyone. Apparently you are taking my post way too personally. It was directed at those who are indeed acting this way. If you are not, then you shouldn’t have a beef.

ArchonWing.9480:

Considering all current specs are unlocked by level 80, it is different. You can argue the degree of difference. Then again people complain about being shunned about not having the right class or having the marginal diffrence in ascended gear. I think this could be a bigger deal.

You are correct the “core” lines are all unlocked by 80, not new specs. You are right that it can be a bigger deal, but again, how is that different than it is right now? Having the elite isn’t going to cause the problem or make it worse. There will always be some problem with shunning and ridicule. Having the elite given to you at release will not mitigate this. Also, everyone has the choice and ability to get the correct gear and “meta” builds if they do not want to have the ridicule. That is what anyone has to do in order to not have those jerks shun and ridicule. It’s not right, but there it is.

ArchonWing.9480:

In a vacuum, I would agree. But in WvW, the difference isn’t just completing content faster or slower.

Actually it is. No one is going to be “gifted” with the elite specs. If you want them, you have to take time to get them. Even in WvW.

ArchonWing.9480:

I disagree wholeheartedly. Whether or not you disagree with people; what you call complaining is discussion and things can change.

WvW map completion? Obsolete
Gold based trait unlock? Obsolete
Fractal Reward levels and ascended gear? Used to be Soulbound, now Account Bound
Gem Interface? Custom Exchange Added
WvW Gear salvage? Soon possible.

Some people complain not because they hate the game, but because it could be in their opinion better.

It may not change tomorrow, but silencing discussion for future change isn’t acceptable. It took constant pestering on behalf of users to make it happen, and sometimes it does lead to new changes.

In this case “complaining” and “discussion” are semantics. I agree that disagreeing (discussing, complaining) with what is not good in the game is a great way of getting bad content changed. What I find to be silly bordering on ridiculous is complaining about something before it is even implemented. Wait until it drops, see how it is and then start the discussion. Until then, it is just Chicken Little-ing.

I swear since back almost as far as skill points to hero points, that they be needed for the new skills, and so am surprise people feel ambushed by the info.

I don’t understand why it matters to some people. Why are some posters just blatantly attacking other posters opinions ? Isn’t the forum for creating and giving feedback which is always somebodies opinion ? This is why I hardly ever post, it’s embarrassing to see players attacking the ideas and opinions of others, why can’t people just accept that they won’t always agree but that does not invalidate someone else’s opinion.

The way I see it it should be easier and if you want to take your time to unlock it slowly you have that option, it shouldn’t matter to you if others can do it faster.

jheryn.8390:

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

That is precisely not what anyone is actually saying, it’s just what a number of people keep accusing others of saying.

That is exactly what SOME people are saying. I never implied that EVERYONE was saying that. Obviously they are not since I agreed with Konig.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

So, by same logic, would it be fair to say, “Why did you come to the forum and post, if you were going to ignore every post in the thread before”? But hey, why listen to others if you can just tell them they are asking for everything to be handed to them.

That is logic? I have been following this thread since day one. I have read every post. There is no logic to anything you just said. I didn’t accuse everyone of asking for everything. I have read every post in this thread. You. Have. No. Logic. Only assumptions that are wrong.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Many aren’t even against a way to ‘unlock’ these specs. I expected to do so, via story. Yet that isn’t how it’s being done. It’s being put behind hero points.

Since you were accusing me of not reading posts, I’ll throw that right back at you. I said it was not the best way to unlock the specs. #readingcomprehension

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Edited Addendum: Let me add that, we WANT to play the content. We’ve been starved on new content for far too long. However, we do not want to be forced to rush the maps just to get an elite spec on each character.

Who is rushing you to do anything? If you want the Elite Specs right now, then I guess you will have to rush. No one is forcing you to do anything. You choose what you want to do.

ArchonWing.9480:

I disagree if you think progression of this form is “everything” and there couldn’t be a reason to play it for anything else. [SNIP]
Point is the game is a lot more open ended, and progression takes many forms.

I don’t think it is “everything”. I didn’t say that it was. And yes progression does take many forms. This is one of the forms put before us and we have to deal with it. So anyone can disagree with me or anyone else, it doesn’t change the fact that this is the way it is happening.

ArchonWing.9480:

Furthermore, people aren’t just complaining about 400 hero points; it’s 400 hero points per character, and it leads to a situation in many progression based games that I never liked personally: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OneManParty Basically, you’re gimping yourself unless you focus on one or several characters, and that results in other choices being very underpowered and often not used at all.

Again, I did not say that all people were complaining about the 400 points. Read the posts, many people are in fact complaining about that very thing. I have 2 mains and 15 alts. So yes it will take a LONG time to get all of them up to Elite Specs. But underpowered, I don’t think so. Many of the elites are no better than the core specs. They are on equal footing IMO and in the opinion of many others.

ArchonWing.9480:

This is often cyclic, with one character becoming slightly stronger, making it more likely for them to land the finishing blow, or survive the boss’s attacks, leading to them gaining more levels and strength, making it easier for them to kill the enemies and survive and so on…

How is this different than it is right now? These elite specs are not going to change that. The better player with or without an elite spec will always come out on top.

ArchonWing.9480:

And depending on how the meta evolves, this could be far more impacting than ascended gear especially with the inclusion of raids.

Again, you can choose to spend your time unlocking these points. That is up to you. It will be different for everyone. I personally couldn’t care less about being “meta”. I know that is very important for some, but certainly not all.

This is the way it has been put before us. How we each decide to deal with it is a personal choice. Complaining and bemoaning about it at this point isn’t going to make it change. The expansion is tomorrow. Do you think they are going to change it before then? We either you deal with it or not. There is no debate at this point. Only complaining.

Oh I’m sorry, I responded in general terms in a number of ways. My mistake, I thought it was obvious you weren’t saying some of those things specifically. Like I didn’t think you said that all anyone was asking for was to be hand fed everything while they do nothing? But maybe that’s where my bad reading comprehension failed me again?

Seemed pretty fitting when I typed it, and seemed to fit within actual comprehension, but I must be completely wrong.

PopeUrban.2578:

I’m still waiting for the mass exodus of people who find the idea of playing the game to earn character progression offensive and unacceptable.

Or for that matter the mass exodus of people that swore the game would fold under some massive revolt when ascended was added to the game in 2012

As far as I can tell it isn’t happening. People will complain about this for maybe another week, and then completely forget about it. The handful of people that leave the game over something so silly will not be missed, and the people that stick around will simply become accustomed to it.

If they make it easier later those same people will make another whine thread about how all their “hard work” was “devalued” and how much it’s a “slap in the face” to “veteran players”

Honestly. How many times can the sky be falling in a year without it actually falling?

Funny, I didn’t think even more than a few were threatening to quit? I thought I only saw one or 2 posts really saying that, but hey, maybe my comprehension completely failed again.

Right now, I’m kind of on the fence. When I originally read that we’d need 400 HP to unlock the elite specialization (presumably per character as well, since why wouldn’t it be? It’s still a specialization), I wasn’t happy. I’m still not happy, but after sleeping on it I’ve decided that at this point I’d like to see how it’ll play out.

• We know it takes 60 points to unlock it initially, with the first minor trait being what we’ll be unlocking (I think? Not sure if it was confirmed).
• We know that HPs in the Maguuma Jungle give us 10HP instead of 1HP like in Central Tyria.
• We know we can unlock HPs through Notarized Scrolls (/of Maguuma), but it would take quite a lot of rank ups and cost many BoH to do this repeatedly / completely through WvW
• We know that the 400 points includes the trait line, the utility skills + healing + elite, and the cosmetic items.

However..

• We don’t know how many points it takes to unlock all the traits, the healing skill, the utilities and the elite, and how that number compares to those that are used to unlock the cosmetic items.
• We also don’t know how challenging the HPs in the Maguuma Jungle will be. I’d be surprised if none of them required masteries to get to, but would any of them require the highest tier in certain masteries? (Looking at ley-line gliding very pointedly).

Basically, while it has been confirmed that there are enough HPs in the Maguuma Jungle to unlock the specialization, we do not know how many of those we would be able to access without masteries. Or what the highest tier in masteries is required for HPs in the jungle.

So.. yeah. While we theoretically could get all the HPs we need from the Maguuma Jungle as there are at least 40, that doesn’t mean we’d be able to get them all right away, rush through them, et cetera. Until you get masteries, it could be that you’d only be able to access a small portion of them. Or it could be that you could access a majority, minus a few in tricky locations requiring masteries.

Like I said, at this point I’m just going to wait and see what everything looks like tomorrow. Maybe we’ll see a response by a dev that clears some things up before then, maybe we wont. No use worrying so much about something we haven’t gotten to try yet, even if dissatisfied at the description. Especially if they don’t plan on responding / don’t have the time to, before the launch. It could be as bad as we are imagining it, but there is the possibility that it also might not be.

Trying to be optimistic, I suppose. Especially as someone with an alt problem lol.

If my worst fears for this system are confirmed tomorrow? Yeah, you’ll probably see me again, but until then.. happy gaming?

Canis.7451:

Right now, I’m kind of on the fence. When I originally read that we’d need 400 HP to unlock the elite specialization (presumably per character as well, since why wouldn’t it be? It’s still a specialization), I wasn’t happy. I’m still not happy, but after sleeping on it I’ve decided that at this point I’d like to see how it’ll play out.

You summed up my current feelings. I am unhappy with the way “elite” (in effort, not capability) specs are being handled. I’ll try HoT out, and see if other aspects make up for the annoyance.

My three main characters have 214/141/122 available hero points, and I have no time before HoT to farm more on the latter two, who are the ones I want the elite spec for.

We’ll see how easy/hard/impossible-for-a-one-handed man the HoT hero points are. If skins are part of lower tiers, or the HP are a major pain, I’m not going to be happy. And there’s no reason to play a GAME if it isn’t fun.

But I’ll give it a chance.