Guild Wars 2

Konig Des Todes.2086:

DarcShriek.5829:

As the sylvari appear to have wiped from historical memory, it is reasonable to consider that Sylvari may have fought on the losing side. They may have been dragon minions in the past.

This is contradictory.

The dragons have always been the winner. So if they fought on the losing side, they would have fought dragon minions and be wiped out by them – hence the lack of records, as dragon minions don’t write.

Also, did you ever consider the possibility that they’re not mentioned in historical records because they didn’t exist in history?

If the dragons have been the winners, then where have they been for the last 10000 years.
If the sylvari didn’t exist, then neither would the seeds. Seeds that someone considered important enough to guard.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Jormag was hibernating off the map to the north, but his champion Svanir was made while at Drakkar Lake (which we could go to in GW1 and can in fact still see where it would roughly be on the GW2 map).

Proximity means jack kitten.

Actually, proximity has some bearing on the case of Svanir. It wasn’t Jormag that corrupted Svanir, it was Drakkar. Drakkar was only able to corrupt Svanir when he was at the lake. Therefore, in the case of Svanir, proximity does matter.

I don’t see where it matters in Scarlet’s case though. But we don’t really know if the corrupter was Mordremoth or someone in his command.

It’s funny how Kellach tried to kill Queen Jenna to cure his corruption,…hey wait a minute I thought corrupted people didn’t have free will. Kellach was trying to find a cure for his corruption. That means that at least for a short time, corrupted individuals do have free will.

DarcShriek.5829:

If the dragons have been the winners, then where have they been for the last 10000 years.
If the sylvari didn’t exist, then neither would the seeds. Seeds that someone considered important enough to guard.

The Elder Dragons consume too much magic to remain constantly awake, so even if they do seemingly fully wipe the planet out like Glint says in Edge of Destiny, page 339, they wouldn’t remain active. That’s the thing about them – they live in cycles. A lot of people compare them to the Reapers of Mass Effect, but I prefer the description of the Thorian: “hibernating for thousands of long years, awake for a few frantic centuries”. Win or lose, this is what happens to the Elder Dragons.

The last time, you can consider it a bit of a stalemate – all but five sapient races were wiped out, but the Elder Dragons were forced into hibernation prematurely.

DarcShriek.5829:

Please leave your personal politics out of this conversation. They have no place here.

Tell that to the ones bringing it up.

DarcShriek.5829:

Actually, proximity has some bearing on the case of Svanir. It wasn’t Jormag that corrupted Svanir, it was Drakkar. Drakkar was only able to corrupt Svanir when he was at the lake. Therefore, in the case of Svanir, proximity does matter.

I don’t see where it matters in Scarlet’s case though. But we don’t really know if the corrupter was Mordremoth or someone in his command.

The bold – both of them – was my point, actually.

DarcShriek.5829:

It’s funny how Kellach tried to kill Queen Jenna to cure his corruption,…hey wait a minute I thought corrupted people didn’t have free will. Kellach was trying to find a cure for his corruption. That means that at least for a short time, corrupted individuals do have free will.

He’s an odd and unique case to begin with, as he was corrupted indirectly via an object from Orr. However, given that risen were following him around, he is easily considered a champion – and they do seem to have a degree of self-decision in their actions.

I suppose one can say that Kellach was extremely strong willed. But this does bring in an interesting thin to consider since he was actively looking for a cure to what plagued him.

Elder dragon ranks need more hierarchy. It seems we put Glint, Svanir, Kellach Shatterer and Scarlet all at approximately the same rank, when obviously they aren’t.

LumAnth.5124:

DaShi, please do not make this worse by involving random personal issues. In fact, it makes you look lIke the Internet troll / bully.

Like you are doing here.

I’ve been a long time fan of GW lore ever since reading up my first article on the Guild Wars (1) wiki, Urgoz’s Warren, and loved lore, loved seeing the debates in the GW guru Lore section.
I’ve known (“lurked” LOL) some of Konig’s post in both GW wiki and Guru, because mostly, they were backed by proof, something that is severely lacking in some theories. By all means, speculate all you want in the Trading Post and make thousands, but as my English teacher would say, “Your thesis and theories are nothing without evidence”

There’s no problem when he backs his theories with proof. But theories themselves are not facts.

As the creator of this thread I feel compelled to say to everyone: stop. This thread has derailed to the point of a defense/offense by and to Konig. I didn’t mean to transfer the attention on him and I want to clarify that while I strongly disprove of Konig’s attitude towards anyone with different opinions than him, I think my words have been misunderstood. I respect you Konig, I read your articles on Guildmag, I followed closely threads on GW2Guru (shall I mention I noticed the same attitude), and I think you’re one of the most authorable persons about GW lore.

But I presented a DISCUSSION thread here, so let’s get back to the point. It had to be a brainstorming. I had put my input; I NEVER put my words as to say I were totally right, or that my theory was the real thing.

Now, back to the point of this threa: I chose to follow a thought a-la Occam’s Razor. If Arenanet is pointing towards something, then most probably that’s the direction they chose to go. My points are not actual facts, but they do make sense.
Seriously, with all the regions they could put Mordremoth, they chose Magus Falls. With the recent reveals it looks to unlikely that Mordremoth is not tied somehow with Sylvari – and sorry for saying it for the 10th time, but 8-9 months ago we were arguing about the fact that NO sylvari had ever been corrupted and that they couldn’t be.
But denying that Scarlet WAS corrupted is looking at truth and facing away.

I hope this thread can return to its original purpose: to discuss about what’s probably going to be a major plot point in the next LS. (hey, just my opinion)

Back to the topic at hand. To address some of Konig’s points:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

And as Crucible of Eternity shows, it is possible for a dragon minion to be corrupted by another dragon.

CoE is a unique situation. The subjects there were experimented on. If we saw something corrupted by two or more dragons naturally, then you’d have a stronger argument that Sylvari can’t be minions because they can’t be corrupted. CoE tells us that it is possible, but not the circumstances under which it could happen. Under the right circumstances, Sylvari might be corrupted by other dragons.

However, I disagree on the “partial corruption” – no dragon minion thus far can be “partially” corrupted. You either are, or you aren’t. There is no mid-way in this topic.

There would have to be for the CoE argument to hold. A doubly corrupted individual can’t be a complete servant of both Jormag and Primodus. And someone else mentioned Kellach.

• They all consume magic and spread corruption.
• All of their minions are fanatic towards them.
• All of their minions hold an elemental theme to them.
There is no reason to believe that 1 or even 2 of the 6 Elder Dragons would differ from the other 4 in these three points, especially since for Mordremoth the first is already confirmed, and third is highly probable.

Beyond those 3, there are differences. Jormag and Kralkatorrik corrupt environments. We’ve seen no sign of this from the other dragons. Primordus turns rocks into minions and, interestingly, his minions can product eggs. Also, none of his minions can communicate with non-minions. It’s quite possible that Mordremoth and Bubbles could have some unique characteristics to their minions that differ significantly from the other dragons.

From this, people are saying “Mordremoth was always with her, proof that sylvari were born dragon minions!” but that’s not what Vorpp is saying. All Vorpp is saying is at that specific time, Mordremoth’s influence was already tied to Scarlet in some ways, and that he theorizes that the Dream is involved.

That’s a very narrow interpretation. It could very well have been with her all along. There is no evidence that something “hopped on” to Scarlet just before she entered the machine. In fact, Vorpp believes that it is something that was walled off in Scarlet’s mind and is related to the Dream. This seems like something that was with Scarlet (and other Sylvari) for some time. Until evidence arises saying when Mordremoth or whatever it was entered Scarlet’s mind, it is reasonable to assume that it was with her anytime from then to her birth.

Ever heard of a red herring? ArenaNet has used them before, it wouldn’t be a shocker if they did this again. Nor would it be a shocker if they decided to say “it was Vorpp’s semi-educated guess, and not concrete proof” no different than them saying the History of Tyria was human legends and not the actual history of the world.

This is the very cherry-picking you are accusing arlowix of. It’s unfair to dismiss arguments in this way.

Do you have solid proof that there isn’t? Four out of four Elder Dragons who’s corruption we see is capable of corrupting both land and flesh.

Jormag or Kralkatorrik have a very distinct way of corrupting land. Other than creating minions from rocks and lava, Primordus doesn’t corrupt land in anyway similar to Jormag or Kralkatorrik. Zhaitan corrupts environments with something similar to miasma, but the land itself is unchanged. Zhaitan also doesn’t corrupt living things. They need to die first. In addition, you are asking him to prove a negative, which is impossible.

Please correct me if I am mistake on any of these points. I am not as well versed in the lore. I will also add that I am not convinced either that the Sylvari are dragon minions. However, I do not believe that there is enough evidence to say definitively that they are not.

DaShi.1368:

But theories themselves are not facts.

Which has been my entire point whenever I come across this theory, because that’s how people present it more often than not.

DaShi.1368:

CoE is a unique situation. The subjects there were experimented on. If we saw something corrupted by two or more dragons naturally, then you’d have a stronger argument that Sylvari can’t be minions because they can’t be corrupted. CoE tells us that it is possible, but not the circumstances under which it could happen. Under the right circumstances, Sylvari might be corrupted by other dragons.

Bold was my argument in that point. Alone, it is far from full-proof, but one point of evidence is never enough to utterly settle a wide-spread discussion.

DaShi.1368:

However, I disagree on the “partial corruption” – no dragon minion thus far can be “partially” corrupted. You either are, or you aren’t. There is no mid-way in this topic.

There would have to be for the CoE argument to hold. A doubly corrupted individual can’t be a complete servant of both Jormag and Primodus. And someone else mentioned Kellach.

I fail to see how CoE becomes a requirement for there to be no mid-way.

DaShi.1368:

Beyond those 3, there are differences. Jormag and Kralkatorrik corrupt environments. We’ve seen no sign of this from the other dragons. Primordus turns rocks into minions and, interestingly, his minions can product eggs. Also, none of his minions can communicate with non-minions. It’s quite possible that Mordremoth and Bubbles could have some unique characteristics to their minions that differ significantly from the other dragons.

Please re-read my points. I explicitly stated that those are the similarities shared amongst all, and I explicitly stated – in multiple posts – that there are also differences. But per Jeff Grubb’s own words, there are similarities across all Elder Dragons, and those three points are shown as the only similarities – and all equally so – amongst the Elder Dragons we have reliable evidence of in those points.

I would like to correct you on something. While called “eggs”, they are only so in purpose – that is, being incubation pods for destroyers. Destroyers do not get pregnant, as we see in that same storyline that we get not just destroyer crablings, but full grown destroyer crabs and destroyer trolls as well. These “destroyer eggs” function no differently than the ice crystals in the Claw of Jormag event chain, or the Strange Crystal – both of which ‘spawn’ dragon minions from within.

What made the destroyer eggs so unique is that they seem to form the destroyers (as well as being brand new tactics for Primordus) within the “eggs” which made it seem like they were more traditional eggs, thus the theorizing by the mentor that it could be either a pregnant creature that was corrupted – something new to Primordus but not other Elder Dragons – or made by a new type of dragon champion – which is also something new for Primordus. Either way meant Primordus changed tactics, and that’s why it was so astonishing for the mentors.

DaShi.1368:

That’s a very narrow interpretation. It could very well have been with her all along. There is no evidence that something “hopped on” to Scarlet just before she entered the machine. In fact, Vorpp believes that it is something that was walled off in Scarlet’s mind and is related to the Dream. This seems like something that was with Scarlet (and other Sylvari) for some time. Until evidence arises saying when Mordremoth or whatever it was entered Scarlet’s mind, it is reasonable to assume that it was with her anytime from then to her birth.

You’re missing the point.

Yes, it could very well been with her all along. But people are taking it as a fact that it was.

No, there is no evidence that it “hopped on”, but similarly there’s no evidence that it was with her all along.

My point was that there’s multiple interpretations to it, not that my example is the case. All that’s a fact is that “it was with her when she entered the machine” – there is no evidence in any direction for when it became ‘with her.’

DaShi.1368:

This is the very cherry-picking you are accusing arlowix of. It’s unfair to dismiss arguments in this way.

I wasn’t dismissing. I was offering alternatives.

Again, this boils down to how everyone’s treating their interpretation of the past couple updates as the only interpretation – as if they are fact. I am here, have been here, presenting alternative interpretations. Yes, interpretations that goes against theirs and for mine, but even if I were for their theory I would play the devil’s advocate and bring these very same interpretations up regardless, just to show they exist – that their interpretation is not the only one.

DaShi.1368:

Jormag or Kralkatorrik have a very distinct way of corrupting land. Other than creating minions from rocks and lava, Primordus doesn’t corrupt land in anyway similar to Jormag or Kralkatorrik. Zhaitan corrupts environments with something similar to miasma, but the land itself is unchanged. Zhaitan also doesn’t corrupt living things. They need to die first. In addition, you are asking him to prove a negative, which is impossible.

Again, I never argued they corrupted in the same way. In fact, if you looked at the whole of my posts, you’d note that I stated otherwise.

This said, Zhaitan does corrupt living beings – albeit indirectly (not just Kellach, but in Sparkfly Fen too – there’s at least one heart in which it is mentioned the wildlife (basilisks, flies, etc.) will eat risen corpses and become infected with the corruption themselves, and they pass it onto the plants in the area). Which goes to my point – all Elder Dragons can corrupt flesh and land. They just, for reasons unknown to us, do not do so equally or in the same fashion.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Bold was my argument in that point. Alone, it is far from full-proof, but one point of evidence is never enough to utterly settle a wide-spread discussion.

Yes, but you have used that point (incorrectly) as a hammer to crush other people’s theories. If you truly believed that it is so far from full-proof, it would not be used in such a way. If there is other, better evidence use that, because the CoE argument is a dead-end atm.

I fail to see how CoE becomes a requirement for there to be no mid-way.

You frequently cite CoE to demonstrate that minions can have multiple corruptions. Yet for that point you said that corruptions are complete and there can be no mid-way. You want to have your cake and eat it too.

Please re-read my points. I explicitly stated that those are the similarities shared amongst all, and I explicitly stated – in multiple posts – that there are also differences. But per Jeff Grubb’s own words, there are similarities across all Elder Dragons, and those three points are shown as the only similarities – and all equally so – amongst the Elder Dragons we have reliable evidence of in those points.

But, like CoE, you use that statement to crush any theories of corruption that go beyond those points. While you are trying to sound reasonable here, you were not when you used these as counterpoints.

I would like to correct you on something. While called “eggs”, they are only so in purpose – that is, being incubation pods for destroyers. Destroyers do not get pregnant, as we see in that same storyline that we get not just destroyer crablings, but full grown destroyer crabs and destroyer trolls as well. These “destroyer eggs” function no differently than the ice crystals in the Claw of Jormag event chain, or the Strange Crystal – both of which ‘spawn’ dragon minions from within.

What made the destroyer eggs so unique is that they seem to form the destroyers (as well as being brand new tactics for Primordus) within the “eggs” which made it seem like they were more traditional eggs, thus the theorizing by the mentor that it could be either a pregnant creature that was corrupted – something new to Primordus but not other Elder Dragons – or made by a new type of dragon champion – which is also something new for Primordus. Either way meant Primordus changed tactics, and that’s why it was so astonishing for the mentors.

First, thank you for the additional information. Second, my point was that there are methods of corruption used by the dragons that differ the other dragons. This lends some credence to the Sylvari being possible minions.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

You’re missing the point.

Yes, it could very well been with her all along. But people are taking it as a fact that it was.

No, there is no evidence that it “hopped on”, but similarly there’s no evidence that it was with her all along.

My point was that there’s multiple interpretations to it, not that my example is the case. All that’s a fact is that “it was with her when she entered the machine” – there is no evidence in any direction for when it became ‘with her.’

Again, this is not the way you presented it. The rest of that post, you went on a long rant clearly dismissing “all along” possibility while promoting an unsupported “hopped on” theory. Your point may have allowed for multiple interpretations, but you clearly (and wrongly) excluded the “all along” one.

I wasn’t dismissing. I was offering alternatives.

Again, this boils down to how everyone’s treating their interpretation of the past couple updates as the only interpretation – as if they are fact. I am here, have been here, presenting alternative interpretations. Yes, interpretations that goes against theirs and for mine, but even if I were for their theory I would play the devil’s advocate and bring these very same interpretations up regardless, just to show they exist – that their interpretation is not the only one.

Calling something a red-herring is not offering an alternative. It’s insulting to him that you would treat his interpretation so, and insulting to me that you think I would fall for the “it’s just my interpretation” excuse. You are not presenting any alternative interpretation other than saying “you’re wrong!” with no supporting evidence.

sigh the only thing that Scarlet took into that device were things from her own mind.

DaShi.1368:

Yes, but you have used that point (incorrectly) as a hammer to crush other people’s theories. If you truly believed that it is so far from full-proof, it would not be used in such a way. If there is other, better evidence use that, because the CoE argument is a dead-end atm.

I’m seriously believing you’re not reading my full posts.

“Alone, it is far from full-proof,”

DaShi.1368:

You frequently cite CoE to demonstrate that minions can have multiple corruptions. Yet for that point you said that corruptions are complete and there can be no mid-way. You want to have your cake and eat it too.

You seem to presume that you cannot be fully Risen and fully Branded at the same time. Why could you not be? “Risen” simply means “dragon minion of/corrupted by Zhaitan” – Branded simply means “dragon minion of/corrupted by Kralkatorrik” – so can you not be corrupted by both? Can you not be a dragon minion of both? CoE shows that, yes, you can. Therefore, those creatures – such as Subject Alpha – were fully corrupted by multiple dragons’ energies.

DaShi.1368:

But, like CoE, you use that statement to crush any theories of corruption that go beyond those points. While you are trying to sound reasonable here, you were not when you used these as counterpoints.

In conjunction with the other pieces of evidence. Never alone.

DaShi.1368:

First, thank you for the additional information. Second, my point was that there are methods of corruption used by the dragons that differ the other dragons. This lends some credence to the Sylvari being possible minions.

Actually, it doesn’t support the theory, because the question of conflict doesn’t derive from “how they are corrupted” but “their (in)ability to be corrupted” as well as their mental states.

DaShi.1368:

Again, this is not the way you presented it. The rest of that post, you went on a long rant clearly dismissing “all along” possibility while promoting an unsupported “hopped on” theory. Your point may have allowed for multiple interpretations, but you clearly (and wrongly) excluded the “all along” one.

Yes, it actually is how I presented it – just not the part of the post you were quoting then and there. I quote myself, same post, underlining for emphasis:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Never said it was wrong. Rather, I would argue you’re taking a mile when a foot is given – so to speak. Though that’s probably a bad metaphor, so let me be more clear cut:

You’re taking something small to be bigger than it actually is.

Vorpp says this:

“Ceara encountered something that literally broke her mind, but the only things in there were things she brought. I surmise she was directly exposed to a part of her own psyche that had been carefully walled off. Perhaps for her own protection? We’d need to do far more extensive study of the sylvari Dream before I could draw any more-detailed conclusions.”

So in short, what he says is this:

• The Entity was with Scarlet when she entered the machine.
• Scarlet lost some sort of psychological protection (thus she became insane – this was stated by Scott McGough back in August and likely has little to do with their protection against dragon corruption – this is purely talking about her mental state)
• He theorizes that the Dream is related, but won’t say anything definitive.

From this, people are saying “Mordremoth was always with her, proof that sylvari were born dragon minions!” but that’s not what Vorpp is saying. All Vorpp is saying is at that specific time, Mordremoth’s influence was already tied to Scarlet in some ways, and that he theorizes that the Dream is involved.

Now, onto you saying “Do you really mean that in that particular story istance, of ALL the correct answers, the one Vorpp gives is the only one that is wrong?”

Ever heard of a red herring? ArenaNet has used them before, it wouldn’t be a shocker if they did this again. Nor would it be a shocker if they decided to say “it was Vorpp’s semi-educated guess, and not concrete proof” no different than them saying the History of Tyria was human legends and not the actual history of the world.

I explicitly stated, multiple times, that people are taking what confirms little to confirm a lot in a specific direction, that all we actually learn is a very little bit – I presented the red herring argument in response to being accused of saying Vorpp’s wrong, which was an incorrect accusation (as I pointed out in my very first sentence in response) but extrapolated in saying that, yes, he could very well be wrong nonetheless.

Now, either you didn’t read my post in full, you’re trying to skew my words, or you’re misinterpreting what I said (which in turn, makes me think you’re not reading my posts in full).

DaShi.1368:

Calling something a red-herring is not offering an alternative. It’s insulting to him that you would treat his interpretation so, and insulting to me that you think I would fall for the “it’s just my interpretation” excuse. You are not presenting any alternative interpretation other than saying “you’re wrong!” with no supporting evidence.

See above; I stated the minimum explanation of Vorpp’s wording, I got accused of claiming Vorpp’s wrong, I explained I wasn’t stating such and stated the bare minimum we have confirmed, and then took his accusation on me and turning it to actually be possible. I was not insulting him, more so since I never actually stated Vorpp was a red herring, but said it’s a possibility. Again, you seem to be – intentionally or not – skewing my words.

Though I admit, I should have been a bit clearer. My actual alternative explanation came after explaining that I was not claiming Vorpp was wrong and then stating that it very well is possible that he is (which in of itself is an alternative explanation) – in which I stated:

To question one: simple, if it was added somepoint between “the beginning” and it being “released.”

I never once stated “you’re wrong” – in any form of wording – to arlowix nor Aethelbert (whom I was responding to in the post of question) when it came to the interpretation of Vorpp’s words.

And it is, in fact, insulting to me that you continuously claim such by quoting merely portions of my post and not the full, as you are taking statements out of context. Of course, if anyone were to bother to look back – as you should have, and I presume, did – then they would be capable of seeing the full post in all its original “glory” and thus be able to see that I did not call Vorpp a red herring as a fact, but said that it is possible.

@arlowix

The problem I have with your theory is, why would an Elder Dragon go through the effort consuming action of creating intelligent life, just to break their will and corrupt them. Why not create obedient minions from the start. Primordus does the same while all the others don’t even bother with spawning their own minions (though I don’t know if that is true, because the Claw of Jormag and The Shatterer look pretty artificial).

Also for the part that Malyck is not under Mordremoth’s influence because he drifted away. Why would Scarlet get under its influence in the first place if the range was to short. We already know that dragons can corrupt and influence while being thousands of miles away. I don’t think you can apply something like distance here.

macvanilla.4631:

@arlowix

The problem I have with your theory is, why would an Elder Dragon go through the effort consuming action of creating intelligent life, just to break their will and corrupt them. Why not create obedient minions from the start. Primordus does the same while all the others don’t even bother with spawning their own minions (though I don’t know if that is true, because the Claw of Jormag and The Shatterer look pretty artificial).

There’s also the other $64000 question as to why create two seperate forms of minions – sylvari and fern hounds – with different levels of intelligence based entirely off of species that aren’t even dominant in the region.

The real answer to the sylvari origin, IMO, has been staring us in the face since GW1.

Druids evolved into treants and then spirits. What if they evolved beyond that?

(I’ll explain better once I’ve had time to organize my thoughts and write it all down into a new post.)

macvanilla.4631:

@arlowix

The problem I have with your theory is, why would an Elder Dragon go through the effort consuming action of creating intelligent life, just to break their will and corrupt them. Why not create obedient minions from the start. Primordus does the same while all the others don’t even bother with spawning their own minions (though I don’t know if that is true, because the Claw of Jormag and The Shatterer look pretty artificial).

Well, if making Sylvari is effort consuming and should be avoided by an Elder Dragon, then the same logic can be applied to any Elder Dragon, really. If it takes effort to create Sylvari, so would Destroyers, Risen, Icebrood, etc.

Returning your statement/question, if Sylvari are later proved to be Mordremoth’s minions then we will also know why a part of them is and why a part of them isn’t. (That assuming the Nightmare Court ARE minions like I believe them to be, or that Malyck’s tree is indeed corrupted. It seems that Malyck is confident there IS a tree in Magus Falls and that he is from there. But for all we know, that tree could not exist at all, althought I totally do not think this is the case, or could be in jeopardy/civil war/corrupted).
To better answer your question: they weren’t meant to be free by Mordy, but something or someone did set them free.

macvanilla.4631:

Also for the part that Malyck is not under Mordremoth’s influence because he drifted away. Why would Scarlet get under its influence in the first place if the range was to short. We already know that dragons can corrupt and influence while being thousands of miles away. I don’t think you can apply something like distance here.

I was applying proximity to Malyck (and while I may agree that’s not a strong point, I was more about the general thought of: Malyck’s pod drifted away so that he didn’t undergo a severe corruption due to Mordremoth’s proximity/whatever corruption method is that it is used in Magus Falls, assuming there is one), but not to Scarlet.
As I see it, Scarlet unlocked a part of her mind previously barred off somehow (and that could be for all Sylvari in my theory). So it’s not really a corruption per se, but rather a restoration of her true nature. Why only Scarlet was corrupted isn’t a mystery, but rather a side effect of Omadd’s machine.
Why didn’t Mordremoth corrupt Caithe or any other Sylvari? Because their mental protection is still strong and up, unlike Scarlet’s after the Omadd machine incident.

EDIT: The possible candidates for the liberation of Sylvari from their original corruption may obviously be the Forgotten. Or any other thing they decide to introduce. But I would like to see a return of the Forgotten.

Why not create obedient minions from the start?

I didn’t mean the creation process itself as you can see. Why wouldn’t Mordremoth bypass the trouble of corrupting them?

If it takes effort to create Sylvari, so would Destroyers, Risen, Icebrood, etc

In my opinion it does take effort to create those. It is a necessity for the dragons to do so. But as you know those are guaranteed minions.

As you believe Mordremoth creates trees that spawn tree people. But unlike the other dragons those tree people are not its minions. It still needs to corrupt them.

One can argue that The Dream cuts the Sylvari off of their true purpose in being Mordremoth’s minions. Yet why are the Sylvari intelligent. The Dream can not be the reason because Malyck is not connected with it but still possesses a personality. Where is the sense in creating intelligent life to just take this advantage away by corrupting it.

Am I the only one that believed that Sylvari and Tyrian defenders and are Tyria’s version of Captain Planet?

Theories of Sylvari and (based on speculation) Mord are actually very possible, seeing as how ANET stated that a revelation will be of unpopular theories above all.

I just hope it’s not. Sylvari shouldn’t be tied to Mord at all in my opinion. It would just be bad writing. Nightmare Court, I understand being corrupted, but just the thought of having all sylvari being preemptively corrupted, and having the Pale Tree being an exchampion would just leave a bad taste in my mouth.

I wish Sylvari would just be…. Sylvari. Nightmare Court can be corrupted for all I care.

LumAnth.5124:

Theories of Sylvari and (based on speculation) Mord are actually very possible, seeing as how ANET stated that a revelation will be of unpopular theories above all.

If you are talking about what Colin said a few months back, he wasn’t talking about theories linking Sylvari and Mordremoth. He was talking about Scarlet’s goal, which was : invade Lion’s Arch to awaken the jungle dragon.

A lot of people got the “awaken the jungle dragon part”, some got “invade LA” few bothered to take them together.

RedStar.4218:

If you are talking about what Colin said a few months back, he wasn’t talking about theories linking Sylvari and Mordremoth. He was talking about Scarlet’s goal, which was : invade Lion’s Arch to awaken the jungle dragon.

A lot of people got the “awaken the jungle dragon part”, some got “invade LA” few bothered to take them together.

He actually replied on this on the BfLA forum. Though, I would say there is a big difference between the large amount of average everyday theories on the LS or general forums and the theories on the Lore forum. The numerous GW lore experts on this forum usually either can quickly debunk or polish the different theories to accuracy.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/escape/Spoiler-What-did-scarlet-do/first#post3714452

ColinJohanson.2394:

Traveller.7496:

Mordremoth.

I just have to wonder how Colin thought this was a “one in a million” prediction.

As resident Colin, I said this back when the world thought it was Primordus or a time travel story line, as more clues came out the theories got MUCH more correct, by mid-february the correct theories were certainly far more plentiful. Also the one in 10-20K number was about the entire story in the final 2 releases, not just one specific part of the ending. Only a couple of folks correctly guessed LA getting nuked before we gave any of the hints for example.

Above all else, I just want to say how much fun it has been watching everyone theorize over the last few months. It’s one of the coolest parts of the living world experience to me. Where it goes from here….well you’ll just have to wait to find out!

Are there any corrupted plants? Like confirmed dragon corruption. I know we’ve seen husks and the rotting oakheart but have we ever seen a dragonbrand oakheart or other indications that dragons can corrupt plants? I know oakhearts can be found in the Shiverpeaks so presumably Jormag would have had the opportunity to corrupt them.

Yes, we have seen plant life corrupted. Not oakhearts but I presume that is for the same reason we don’t see icebrood jotun or grawl, or branded harpies or grawl. Just limiting the numbers of models the artists had to make.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Corrupted_Tree (corrupted by risen)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Noxious_Branded_Plant (corruoted by Kralkatorrik; no article for it but they are in Lowland Burns, Blazeridge Steppes).

Also throughout the Dragonbrand you will find trees, grass, and flowers that got corrupted – the trees look much like the landscape while the other plants look more glasslike. In Ghosts of Ascalon, the grass is even said to have turned to glass and crunches beneath a person’s foot easily.

Not sure of any specific mention of plants corrupted by Jormag/icebrood though, but the specific examples of anti-corruption the sylvari have are for risen and branded, and we see plants corrupted by/into such.

Well, there is the Champion Rotting Oakheart in Queensdale. One of the NPCs refers to it as corrupted, but there’s no real allusion to it being dragon corruption. Doesn’t visually match any noted draconic corruption, but there could be something I’m forgetting.

It shares the same model as the Nightmare Mosshearts during the event chain in Ogham Wilds (Caledon Forest), as well as the Veteran Rotting Oakheart in Thaumanova’s event. But Shiren mentioned the rotting oakheart so.. :P

Yea I managed to miss that part. I blame reading quickly because I’m not technically supposed to be meandering the interwebs at work >.>