Guild Wars 2

Oh, I thought you were just arbitrarily listing big things that live underground. My bad

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Not really relevant, but DarcShriek, when was the last time you saw a giant dredge? (Not counting Molten bosses who are big but not big enough)

The legendary Great One, the Liberator, he who doft his stout helm before the start of Rest-Shift, creating what the unenlightened races call “Dredgehat Island”

He shall rise from justly-earned slumber and lead us to glorious freedom.

Believe, Comrades. Believe.

Hey where did Scarlet go?

DarcShriek.5829:

Hey where did Scarlet go?

That’s the question I’ve been asking, but most seem to think she’s hiding inside the giant drill.

I tend to believe she’s not in LA, at all. Based on the fact that Taimi, who seems to know more about Scarlet than she should, is stating that she’s not in LA. Plus the fact that in all previous encounters with Scarlet, she could barely keep her mouth shut for 5 minutes without taunting us. Now, she doesn’t say a word during the whole 45 minutes we are in LA each hour.

But while I believe Scarlet is not in LA, I have absolutely no idea where she would be, then.

Tom Gore.4035:

DarcShriek.5829:

Hey where did Scarlet go?

That’s the question I’ve been asking, but most seem to think she’s hiding inside the giant drill.

I tend to believe she’s not in LA, at all. Based on the fact that Taimi, who seems to know more about Scarlet than she should, is stating that she’s not in LA. Plus the fact that in all previous encounters with Scarlet, she could barely keep her mouth shut for 5 minutes without taunting us. Now, she doesn’t say a word during the whole 45 minutes we are in LA each hour.

But while I believe Scarlet is not in LA, I have absolutely no idea where she would be, then.

We got to see her in LA…on the drill, in the cutscene that plays when you log in, i’m willing to bet she is legitimately on the drill right now, with her rifle (something we hadn’t seen her even use since Queens Jubilee), she’s in LA, and she means kittening business.

Durzlla.6295:

Tom Gore.4035:

DarcShriek.5829:

Hey where did Scarlet go?

That’s the question I’ve been asking, but most seem to think she’s hiding inside the giant drill.

I tend to believe she’s not in LA, at all. Based on the fact that Taimi, who seems to know more about Scarlet than she should, is stating that she’s not in LA. Plus the fact that in all previous encounters with Scarlet, she could barely keep her mouth shut for 5 minutes without taunting us. Now, she doesn’t say a word during the whole 45 minutes we are in LA each hour.

But while I believe Scarlet is not in LA, I have absolutely no idea where she would be, then.

We got to see her in LA…on the drill, in the cutscene that plays when you log in, i’m willing to bet she is legitimately on the drill right now, with her rifle (something we hadn’t seen her even use since Queens Jubilee), she’s in LA, and she means kittening business.

During the cutscene, yet, but no sign of her after that. You’re probably right. It’s just weird that she’s gone all silent since.

The final update taking place in LA makes me think she might be inside her ship. I still think it’s possible she isn’t in there but rather she went somewhere else.

Player Character: Do not go into Lion’s Arch. The miasma will kill you.
Taimi: Oh, all right. I won’t go there. I’m not stupid. Besides, Scarlet’s not even there.

Maybe this is just referring to Scarlet being inside the ship, not the city itself? Still, it seems like an indication Scarlet has gone somewhere else.

Maybe we stop the drill but it’s like a jRPG final boss – the finale has a second form we don’t know about yet.

I’m sure it’s been asked elsewhere but I haven’t seen it yet, if leylines are like river systems (they exist even when a river runs dry, but channel water when it comes from a source) and Elder Dragons leak magic (like a rain storm fills a catchment with water), could Lion’s Arch being the intersection of several of them indicate it’s the sleeping location of an elder dragon and the ley lines are the channels the magic flows through? I know the idea that Scarlet is drilling for a dragon isn’t new, but can someone point to me the discussion about ley lines and Elder Dragon magic seeping back into the world (or being absorbed by them)?

No, Taimi simply states that because based on the information she have gathered from the refugees no one have seen Scarlet.

WE (as players) saw Scarlet at top of the Drill during the cutscene. The NPCs (or our characters) did not. Thus we as player knows she is there, but none of the NPCs would.

Shiren.9532:

can someone point to me the discussion about ley lines and Elder Dragon magic seeping back into the world (or being absorbed by them)?

http://esprits-dorr.fr/node/261. For the sake of this discussion, I think this is the part you’re looking for:

“Magic is the lifeblood of Tyria. The entire world is infused with it, and it flows through everything via ley lines that criss-cross the planet.
The natural role of the dragons is to keep this magic balanced. From time to time, in the long history of the world, the dragons have awoken and begun to draw the world’s magic into themselves, reducing the level of magic flowing through the ley lines.

When the dragons have consumed enough and thus reduced the world to a low level of magic, they go back to sleep. From then on, the magic leaks from them, back into the world at a reasonable rate. Eventually, it builds up in the world again, and the dragons awaken again to tip the teeter-totter back in the other direction. "

lordkrall.7241:

No, Taimi simply states that because based on the information she have gathered from the refugees no one have seen Scarlet.

WE (as players) saw Scarlet at top of the Drill during the cutscene. The NPCs (or our characters) did not. Thus we as player knows she is there, but none of the NPCs would.

That still doesn’t explain why she’s all of a sudden silent – it doesn’t fit her “style” to just sit there and shut up while the heroes are down there fighting her minions.

Could be just an oversight by ANet, or maybe she’s so concentrated on the drilling she doesn’t have time to taunt the players.

Or maybe she really isn’t there…

lordkrall.7241:

No, Taimi simply states that because based on the information she have gathered from the refugees no one have seen Scarlet.

WE (as players) saw Scarlet at top of the Drill during the cutscene. The NPCs (or our characters) did not. Thus we as player knows she is there, but none of the NPCs would.

We know she was there. The fact is, no-one has seen Scarlet since the attack was launched (neither players nor player characters). It seems like a disconnect to show us Scarlet is on top of her drill but have Taimi in Vigil Keep throwing up comments about how she’s not there. Why bother have Taimi say anything at all if she’s going to come to an incorrect conclusion (something she hasn’t done in regards to Scarlet in the past)?

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Shiren.9532:

can someone point to me the discussion about ley lines and Elder Dragon magic seeping back into the world (or being absorbed by them)?

http://esprits-dorr.fr/node/261. For the sake of this discussion, I think this is the part you’re looking for:

“Magic is the lifeblood of Tyria. The entire world is infused with it, and it flows through everything via ley lines that criss-cross the planet.
The natural role of the dragons is to keep this magic balanced. From time to time, in the long history of the world, the dragons have awoken and begun to draw the world’s magic into themselves, reducing the level of magic flowing through the ley lines.

When the dragons have consumed enough and thus reduced the world to a low level of magic, they go back to sleep. From then on, the magic leaks from them, back into the world at a reasonable rate. Eventually, it builds up in the world again, and the dragons awaken again to tip the teeter-totter back in the other direction. "

Yeah, but I was wondering if the forum has discussed that lore and its relevance to Lion’s Arch being a node of intersecting ley lines. Lots of people think Scarlet wants to wake another dragon, have people discussed the possible reason ley lines exist under LA is because there is a magic filled dragon underneath causing the ley lines to channel magic too and from it? I think there was a map in the past that tried to link ley lines and the probably locations of the elder dragons.

Ok let’s assume for a moment that Taimi is correct and Scarlet is not in LA (and not inside the giant drill either).

Where in the world would she be? Any ideas? What place would be more important than the place she has gathered all her forces to fight?

In practice, she could be anywhere, because all eyes are on LA now.

Could she be in Divinity’s Reach? What was her purpose being there in at Queen’s Jubilee, in addition to getting the watchknights, if any? The huge hole now covered by the Pavilion – does the pavilion really reach to the bottom or is there something even deeper there?

Questions, questions?

Tom Gore.4035:

Where in the world would she be? Any ideas?

Where in the world is Scarlet Briar? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGufyFt6zQc
:D

DarcShriek.5829:

Hey where did Scarlet go?

It was a comment on the fact that the thread had temporarily derailed. Not about the game. I believe the cut scene clearly shows her on the drill.

@Wookie:

It’s possible that Malyck was lying the whole time.

Of course while you may be correct about the final location, to me the animation seemed vague enough that it could be just about anywhere.

Also, I don’t think the Nightmare court are corrupted. If they are corrupted, why not just go live with whatever corrupted them? The nightmare court seem clueless.

One way or the other, I suspect we will get answers to some of the mysteries surrounding the Pale Tree and the Sylvari over the next year.

Never said Malyck was lying. Never said the Nightmare Court were corrupted (Gavin and other’s independence and different methodologies is pretty much proof they aren’t).

Just said that Malyck’s tree – which is said to be along the river to the west thus placing it somewhere in The Falls or Tangle Root of GW1 – is in the approximate location of the direction the line went – which was west of Rata Sum thus into Magus Falls (named after Magus Stones and The Falls of GW1). And that I suspect that Mordremoth is the root of Nightmare rather than being the source for the Dream. Influence is not the same as corruption, as the Sons of Svanir prove.

It will be interesting to see how the sylvari’s relationship with Mordy plays out. I’d still like to know what Caithe’s secret is and why Mordy was attracted to Scarlet during her trip.

Forgive me for my lack of knowledge on all of it, but now that it’s almost over (I doubt the epilogue will give that much information) can I ask : why ?

Why did she do all of that ?
I’m not asking “why she woke up a dragon” but why did she went through all that trouble ?
What was the point of gathering all those armies ? Why build the Marionette and try it out in Lornar ?
If she knew that she was going to invade Lion’s Arch, why did she bother with the thumpers in the first place ? I doesn’t seem like the she knew it was somewhere in LA because she placed them all over the world, even way up north in Jormag’s (supposed) territory.
Sure maybe she wanted to be extremely careful (which is unlikely since we kind of foiled her plans each and every time) in case she needed an army, but why ? For all she knew back then, the ley line hotspot could have been where no one cares for (like in the Woodland cascades, I’m sure the Quetzal could have been easily taken care of).

If LA was the target from day one, it does make some sort of sense. But the amount of thumpers she laid all over Tyria don’t seem to go that way.
So what did I miss (I’m pretty sure there’s something) ?

And also : so, what was the deal with Caithe ?

RedStar.4218:

Forgive me for my lack of knowledge on all of it, but now that it’s almost over (I doubt the epilogue will give that much information) can I ask : why ?

Why did she do all of that ?
I’m not asking “why she woke up a dragon” but why did she went through all that trouble ?
What was the point of gathering all those armies ? Why build the Marionette and try it out in Lornar ?
If she knew that she was going to invade Lion’s Arch, why did she bother with the thumpers in the first place ? I doesn’t seem like the she knew it was somewhere in LA because she placed them all over the world, even way up north in Jormag’s (supposed) territory.
Sure maybe she wanted to be extremely careful (which is unlikely since we kind of foiled her plans each and every time) in case she needed an army, but why ? For all she knew back then, the ley line hotspot could have been where no one cares for (like in the Woodland cascades, I’m sure the Quetzal could have been easily taken care of).

If LA was the target from day one, it does make some sort of sense. But the amount of thumpers she laid all over Tyria don’t seem to go that way.
So what did I miss (I’m pretty sure there’s something) ?

And also : so, what was the deal with Caithe ?

There is SO much unanswered yet. I am just going to wait and see as I will lay low on the theory crafting for a while.

And what is the deal with E?

Although we might get that answer in the epilogue.

Mentioning “E” reminds me that all the different part of the living story are supposed to all tie in together in the end. So excluding Wintersday, Halloween and SAB, we are left with Southsun and maybe the Zephyrite (they do seem to know a bit about dragons, but you can say that their only link was the election of Kiel).

Southsun, Canach, the toxins and maybe the karkas. I guess we could tie it to the jungle dragon, but it’d be nice to get an outright confirmation on that instead of making it another guess that might someday turn out to be false.

RedStar.4218:

Forgive me for my lack of knowledge on all of it, but now that it’s almost over (I doubt the epilogue will give that much information) can I ask : why ?

Why did she do all of that ?
I’m not asking “why she woke up a dragon” but why did she went through all that trouble ?
What was the point of gathering all those armies ? Why build the Marionette and try it out in Lornar ?
If she knew that she was going to invade Lion’s Arch, why did she bother with the thumpers in the first place ? I doesn’t seem like the she knew it was somewhere in LA because she placed them all over the world, even way up north in Jormag’s (supposed) territory.
Sure maybe she wanted to be extremely careful (which is unlikely since we kind of foiled her plans each and every time) in case she needed an army, but why ? For all she knew back then, the ley line hotspot could have been where no one cares for (like in the Woodland cascades, I’m sure the Quetzal could have been easily taken care of).

If LA was the target from day one, it does make some sort of sense. But the amount of thumpers she laid all over Tyria don’t seem to go that way.
So what did I miss (I’m pretty sure there’s something) ?

And also : so, what was the deal with Caithe ?

I’ll answer a couple of these questions. First off, while she knew that the intersection of ley lines was somewhere in Lions arch, she needed the probes to find out exactly where the intersection is. It’s like knowing a building is in New York, but you still need a map to find it. The probes created the map she needed.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

About her being his champion… her face is interesting. Note the yellow “veins” on her head coming from the back. Reminds me of the yellow in the Shadow of the Dragon and the Husks (especially Flametouched Husks). Sounds like Mordremoth found a way to corrupt the sylvari.

It’s not totally the same thing but Canach radically changed after his first appearance and I’m sure you read the writer’s explanation that sylvari physiology can change in response to their physical and mental well being.

Scott McGough:

Canach’s look has indeed undergone a major change since The Lost Shores, and I regret that there isn’t more background available regarding how it happened, but let me address the question here: his change in appearance is almost entirely due to the hardships he’s endured since he escaped Lionguard custody. He’s a fugitive from justice, he’s had Noll’s freelance decommission teams trying to kill him, and he’s utterly alone, so it’s been a tough couple of months for the sylvari fugitive.

Being on the run, fighting for his life, and killing the killers sent after him have weathered Canach; plus, he made a concerted effort to change his look (hairstyle, etc.) so as not to be recognized and arrested by the Lionguard. It’s quite a come down from the high position and status he enjoyed as a secondborn (even if that status was never as high as he thought it should be), and his new, grimmer look is meant to reflect the psychological toll he’s had to pay as well as the physical one.

Hope this helps,
—Scott McG

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/southsun/Canach-s-Mutation-Radical-Change/first#post2076148

Maybe the stress of trying to keep Mordremoth out of her mind and her plan falling apart in the end (or working exactly as Mordremoth wanted it to assuming Scarlet simply thought she was in control but she was doing his bidding all along – her drill didn’t seem to have a plan B, just wake the dragon, not a good plan imo) started to physically manifest?

I like the dragon corruption idea better, but that becomes “messy” when you consider Nightmare, the Dream and how Mordremoth first contacted Scarlet. If Mordremoth can corrupt sylvari, does that mean this new dragon plays by different rules from the others?

RedStar.4218:

Mentioning “E” reminds me that all the different part of the living story are supposed to all tie in together in the end. So excluding Wintersday, Halloween and SAB, we are left with Southsun and maybe the Zephyrite (they do seem to know a bit about dragons, but you can say that their only link was the election of Kiel).

Southsun, Canach, the toxins and maybe the karkas. I guess we could tie it to the jungle dragon, but it’d be nice to get an outright confirmation on that instead of making it another guess that might someday turn out to be false.

In addition to who is “E”, I’d like to know why Tequatl became stronger. It was mentioned that this was tied in also.

DarcShriek.5829:

It will be interesting to see how the sylvari’s relationship with Mordy plays out. I’d still like to know what Caithe’s secret is and why Mordy was attracted to Scarlet during her trip.

Why does there need to be a relationship between Mordremoth and sylvari?

RedStar.4218:

What was the point of gathering all those armies ? Why build the Marionette and try it out in Lornar ?

The armies were more for what they’d give her – the energy probes from the Molten Alliance; the miasma from the Toxic Alliance; holograms from Aetherblades. Them being armies was a bonus, but it seems she didn’t care much for that beyond the Aetherblade fleet.

As for the Marionette – it was a red herring of sorts it seems. It was explained if you beat the Marionette, the whole weapon test was just to – as Rox put it – “thin out the herd”. If you lost the event, the Marionette exploded – self-destruction. And as per a livestream, there was only one Marionette (though we can replay it) and canonically it was beaten (you can see its corpse there).

RedStar.4218:

If she knew that she was going to invade Lion’s Arch, why did she bother with the thumpers in the first place ? I doesn’t seem like the she knew it was somewhere in LA because she placed them all over the world, even way up north in Jormag’s (supposed) territory.

This bit seems a bit weird to me. I think she was just doubt checking herself and where she needed to strike.

I honestly think she had two agendas the whole time, and disrupting the ley lines was one. The other was to weaken the pillars of the Pact (Humanity, Iron Legion, Hoelbrak, and Lion’s Arch are the biggest supporters beyond the Orders, which she marked with X’s along with LA).

Thus LA was a target from day one, but not for the ley lines. Though that’s my theory. And I doubt we’ll ever know now without digging it out of a dev.

RedStar.4218:

If LA was the target from day one, it does make some sort of sense. But the amount of thumpers she laid all over Tyria don’t seem to go that way.

Her attempt to put Mai Trin in the council was to eventually attack LA. So it was a target from the beginning. But the ley line being in LA may not have been to even her knowledge immediately.

RedStar.4218:

Mentioning “E” reminds me that all the different part of the living story are supposed to all tie in together in the end.

No they weren’t. The Zephryites were a separate plot element, like the backgrounds of the biconics and Tequatl. Not all of it is meant to tie together. Just that they’ll be explored more in the future. Clearly in season 2.

Shiren.9532:

It’s not totally the same thing but Canach radically changed after his first appearance and I’m sure you read the writer’s explanation that sylvari physiology can change in response to their physical and mental well being.

That seems different though than merely psychological well being changing her appearance – and her appearance was even changed during the Omadd machine event.

Shiren.9532:

I like the dragon corruption idea better, but that becomes “messy” when you consider Nightmare, the Dream and how Mordremoth first contacted Scarlet. If Mordremoth can corrupt sylvari, does that mean this new dragon plays by different rules from the others?

Well, technically, they all already corrupt in different fashions even though their corruption can affect all things equally.

DarcShriek.5829:

In addition to who is “E”, I’d like to know why Tequatl became stronger. It was mentioned that this was tied in also.

Tied into the Living Story. Not into Scarlet.

DarcShriek.5829:

I’ll answer a couple of these questions. First off, while she knew that the intersection of ley lines was somewhere in Lions arch, she needed the probes to find out exactly where the intersection is. It’s like knowing a building is in New York, but you still need a map to find it. The probes created the map she needed.

Is it explicitly mentioned ? (Don’t take it badly xD, I know I’m asking questions and when you give me an answer, I kitten about it xD).

I just find it so strange. To take back your example, in her case the map she got was a map of the whole world. Her energy probes were all over the place. I can understand how, with so many of them all over the world, she found that LA was a ley lines intersection, but I find it quite strange from her (especially her) to have known that LA was her target yet she needed a few hundreds of probes all over Tyria to confirm that guess.

Edit : I love your posts Konig, thank you for those answers

Yeah, Tequatl is the only one that seems to have to do absolutely nothing to do with it. I thought they’d use the tail Rox cut off somehow in the end. I mean you don’t mention a loaded dragon tail in the first act and then never smack Scarlet over the head with it, right? :P

That said, Scarlet overall is… kind of messy. It got a lot better towards the end, mainly because they mostly abandoned the wacky “Let’s cook Faren because why not!” thing she had going on when first introduced. That part just doesn’t fit with her backstory at all imo. She basically was the ambitious mad scientist archetype, who was driven to insanity by the voice in her head.

If you think about it, she does actually make a lot of sense as a villain for GW2 – if the game has a unifying theme, both story and design-wise, it was always different people/races coming together and fighting something they can’t individually. Scarlet is pretty much the antithesis of that – too arrogant to ever actually trust anybody, she tries to solve everything on her own, which ultimately leads to her downfall.

Even the seemingly random alliances make more sense in that light, they are basically a twisted mockery of the races of Tyria banding together. Not really reaching out to each other, but being manipulated by Scarlet to do her bidding.

So yeah, on a wide, thematic level, I think she actually works pretty well. The devil is in the detail, however, I agree that she could have been implemented way better. The whole Mystery angle just didn’t work for this kind of character imo. It would have been way better if she would have been introduced as Ceara, maybe even meet Braham and the gang before going crazy.

AsgarZigel.4530:

I thought they’d use the tail Rox cut off somehow in the end. I mean you don’t mention a loaded dragon tail in the first act and then never smack Scarlet over the head with it, right? :P

She was hauling it about for Rytlock, he told her to toss it out cuz it smells. This happened in Origins of Madness.

AsgarZigel.4530:

Show Spoiler

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Why does she react so negatively to Kasmeer saying her real name in the final instance, anyway? How are Sylvari named? I suppose it would make some sense if it was the name the Pale Tree gave her.

RedStar.4218:

DarcShriek.5829:

I’ll answer a couple of these questions. First off, while she knew that the intersection of ley lines was somewhere in Lions arch, she needed the probes to find out exactly where the intersection is. It’s like knowing a building is in New York, but you still need a map to find it. The probes created the map she needed.

Is it explicitly mentioned ? (Don’t take it badly xD, I know I’m asking questions and when you give me an answer, I kitten about it xD).

I just find it so strange. To take back your example, in her case the map she got was a map of the whole world. Her energy probes were all over the place. I can understand how, with so many of them all over the world, she found that LA was a ley lines intersection, but I find it quite strange from her (especially her) to have known that LA was her target yet she needed a few hundreds of probes all over Tyria to confirm that guess.

Edit : I love your posts Konig, thank you for those answers

I seem to remember a member of the priory stating that.

Nike.2631:

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Not really relevant, but DarcShriek, when was the last time you saw a giant dredge? (Not counting Molten bosses who are big but not big enough)

The legendary Great One, the Liberator, he who doft his stout helm before the start of Rest-Shift, creating what the unenlightened races call “Dredgehat Island”

He shall rise from justly-earned slumber and lead us to glorious freedom.

Believe, Comrades. Believe.

I do believe, in the idea Molenin’s descendants finally brutally murdered every single Kurzick in Echovald and took the stonewoods for their own. To repay them for their “kindness” during the time of the Afflicted and Betrayer’s Return.

Could Omadd’s device be a possible explanation for why Scarlet might be the first corrupted Sylvari? Prior to Omadd’s device sylvari simply die to dragon corruption, but Omadd’s device removed the protection that causes them to die and that’s why Scarlet was able to be corrupted?

I would argue yes.

I would argue further. I would argue that the sylvari are immune because of the Dream. We were told that after the machine, Scarlet was disconnected from the Dream and it wasn’t a maintained meditation like the Soundless.

This would mean, therefore, that Malyck and his tree – which hold no Dream of Dreams experience – can be corrupted.

Scarlet is loyal to Mordremoth yet shows that she wants to be acknowledged as the brains behind his ressurection.

She clearly wants her wakening of her master to be her stamp on the world.

She clearly showed displeasure over Modremoth’s taking credit for her ideas. A testament to her Pride and Arrogance if there ever was one.

Shiren.9532:

Could Omadd’s device be a possible explanation for why Scarlet might be the first corrupted Sylvari? Prior to Omadd’s device sylvari simply die to dragon corruption, but Omadd’s device removed the protection that causes them to die and that’s why Scarlet was able to be corrupted?

Or the more probable thing, the rest of the sylvari are just brain washed out of the dragons corruption, barricaded off it trough their training in the dream and later on the real world. It was done to glint, it was done to Icebrooded svanir, one would hope that something as strong as the herba ex machina with bark strong enough to instakill liches could do something as simple as that.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

This would mean, therefore, that Malyck and his tree – which hold no Dream of Dreams experience – can be corrupted.

Heh, that would give Malyck’s “Harbinger”-title an interesting new interpretation.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I would argue yes.

I would argue further. I would argue that the sylvari are immune because of the Dream. We were told that after the machine, Scarlet was disconnected from the Dream and it wasn’t a maintained meditation like the Soundless.

This would mean, therefore, that Malyck and his tree – which hold no Dream of Dreams experience – can be corrupted.

Also, Malyck’s tree is hinted to be somewhere in Magus Falls. Mordremoth is hinted to be somewhere in Magus Falls. With this new speculation about sylvari under the influence of the Dream being immune and sylvari who are not being corruptable, this might have some story ties.

I’m sorry but hasn’t it already been speculated that the sylvari are somehow related to Mordremoth? Wouldn’t this confirm that theory and that the Pale Tree is somehow keeping the corruption away from them. The only twist I see coming out of this is if Mordy is no an Elder Dragon hell bent on consuming everything in front of him and is actually a “good” dragon, which wouldn’t make much sense. This all brings about more questions than answers sadly. I’ll have to wait till I see the cinematic myself before I can theorycraft some more.

Also, is there a way to watch that cinematic in game without having to go through all the events? I heard there was a portal that could take you to the ship and you can see the cutscene.

Xukavi.4320:

I’m sorry but hasn’t it already been speculated that the sylvari are somehow related to Mordremoth? Wouldn’t this confirm that theory and that the Pale Tree is somehow keeping the corruption away from them. The only twist I see coming out of this is if Mordy is no an Elder Dragon hell bent on consuming everything in front of him and is actually a “good” dragon, which wouldn’t make much sense. This all brings about more questions than answers sadly. I’ll have to wait till I see the cinematic myself before I can theorycraft some more.

Also, is there a way to watch that cinematic in game without having to go through all the events? I heard there was a portal that could take you to the ship and you can see the cutscene.

Yes, if you own any version of the spinal blade back piece you can get in through the portal near the Tengu gate. Alternatively, you can look up the cutscenes on YouTube.

Most speculation about Mordremoth and sylvari is that the Pale Tree is a dragon champion and that sylvari are born dragon minions. People who have a brain and actually read facts know this to be very unlikely to say the least.

As I said in my post before this one, currently it is speculation that sylvari born from the Pale Tree and thus being under influence of the Dream have some form of immunity against corruption. Immunity meaning, they die before becoming corrupted.

This opens up further speculation that sylvari who are disconnected from the Dream (like Scarlet is and like the sylvari that come from another tree) can be corrupted. Because they’re disconnected from the Dream, they have lost their immunity.

This means that they can be corrupted by any dragon, not only Mordremoth.

What I was implying with my previous post was that it would make sense for Mordremoth to corrupt the possibly vulnerable Sylvari from the other Tree. This does not include the sylvari from the Pale Tree, the tree where we players come from.

Thanks for the info Jelle, sadly no backpiece for me so I’ll probably just watch it on youtube or something.

True, that speculation was that Sylvari and Mordy minions and Pale Tree is Mordy’s Champ. But from what I understood so farm from talk about this release is that it’s showing to be partly true. Like you said, the unprotected Sylvari (non-pale tree) are susceptible to corruption. I’m with you on that.

This however leads to another question: Why doesn’t Mordy have a champion? All the dragons we know of have champions that were trying to help it awaken. Primordus had the Great Destroyer and Jormag had Drakkar. Kralky had Glint but she rebelled, nevertheless, she was his champion. Why does Mordy not have a champion that tried help him awaken. This is why I believe a lot of people would think that The Pale Tree is his champion that rebelled. I for one, am not with that theory but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was that cheesy and Anet went with it. Do we know of any other trees having the same sort of Pale Tree but no Dream?

Finally, Anet has seemed to have had this all planned out a long time ago (possibly from the start). Once again, this would point out that unless they had 2 diff stories (which I doubt), the Fall of Abaddon should have had a place in all this somehow. Now I’m not gonna say Abaddon is alive or he’s coming back, but what if Scarlet’s “New Master” was that same thing that “passed through the Mists that only he knows” and it was a way of showing or hinting us towards that?

Evon is stated to have religious reasons(to quote Game Designer Antony Ordon: “I doubt Evon’s interest in the past isn’t entirely…religious.”) for wanting the Abbadon Fractal.

That Fractal might have been a hint on Evon’s plans just as Thaumanova Reactor Fractal served as a hint to Scarlet and Modremoth’s plans.

Now that Modremoth has awakened we still don’t know what he’s going to do or whether he’s the next Living Story villain.

For all we know Evon is the next villain. And will die summoning his master(Fractal Abbadon) just as Scarlet died waking Modremoth…

Why did Scarlet place teleporters around Lion’s Arch that conveniently allowed us into her fortress? Can you imagine the Trojan war if the Trojans just built four back doors into their city?

Xukavi.4320:

Thanks for the info Jelle, sadly no backpiece for me so I’ll probably just watch it on youtube or something.

True, that speculation was that Sylvari and Mordy minions and Pale Tree is Mordy’s Champ. But from what I understood so farm from talk about this release is that it’s showing to be partly true. Like you said, the unprotected Sylvari (non-pale tree) are susceptible to corruption. I’m with you on that.

This however leads to another question: Why doesn’t Mordy have a champion? All the dragons we know of have champions that were trying to help it awaken. Primordus had the Great Destroyer and Jormag had Drakkar. Kralky had Glint but she rebelled, nevertheless, she was his champion. Why does Mordy not have a champion that tried help him awaken. This is why I believe a lot of people would think that The Pale Tree is his champion that rebelled. I for one, am not with that theory but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was that cheesy and Anet went with it. Do we know of any other trees having the same sort of Pale Tree but no Dream?

Finally, Anet has seemed to have had this all planned out a long time ago (possibly from the start). Once again, this would point out that unless they had 2 diff stories (which I doubt), the Fall of Abaddon should have had a place in all this somehow. Now I’m not gonna say Abaddon is alive or he’s coming back, but what if Scarlet’s “New Master” was that same thing that “passed through the Mists that only he knows” and it was a way of showing or hinting us towards that?

Champions are beatable as shown with the Great Destroyer, or turnable as shown with Glint. Something might have happened to his champion(s) in the previous rise. We can only speculate on his champions for now. Arguably, the Great Jungle Wurm is a candidate. We just don’t know enough yet.

‘The Great Jungle Wurm is an enormous Jungle Wurm in the heart of Wychmire Swamp, south of Twilight Arbor. Although it spawns Summoned Husks and Nightmare Hounds, Gamarien believes its presence there is the result of a “much darker force” than the Nightmare Court, and simply defeating it is not enough to clear the local corruption.’

‘The Great Jungle Wurm’s corpse will not disappear; however, when the meta event chain has restarted, the wurm will wake up and go back underground.’

Could Evon have wanted to find a way to bring back the Titans? After watching the whole end of Scarlet, I find it unlikely to be anything other than her whole plan from the start was to awaken Mordy. Which I find quite sad really, though it was obvious, it just felt quite meh. The final cutscene was nice, but not really that great. If we look at the risings of each Dragon it had some permanent effect on the world. So unless they show how Mordy’s rise affects Tyria in the next update, I’ll be quite disappointed.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I would argue yes.

I would argue further. I would argue that the sylvari are immune because of the Dream. We were told that after the machine, Scarlet was disconnected from the Dream and it wasn’t a maintained meditation like the Soundless.

This would mean, therefore, that Malyck and his tree – which hold no Dream of Dreams experience – can be corrupted.

Mm. If Malyck’s tree has been parked next to Mordremoth all this time, the question to ask is if it has or hasn’t been corrupted for a while now. Not to mention that, in a sense, there are sylvari that have been corrupted: The Nightmare Court.

If we go with what’s been already theorycrafted: That the Dream has a physical base and not an inherent one with the sylvari and that Mordremoth is the source of the Nightmare, we’re left with only the Dream-connected sylvari susceptible to draconic influence. It almost sounds to me that its not Malyck’s people that are in horrible danger – its the Dreamers and courtiers.

Xukavi.4320:

I’m sorry but hasn’t it already been speculated that the sylvari are somehow related to Mordremoth? Wouldn’t this confirm that theory and that the Pale Tree is somehow keeping the corruption away from them.

No, it doesn’t. It just means that the sylvari’s immunity to corruption is not biological – it can be removed, and Omadd’s machine did just that. That is, if Scarlet got corrupted.

Though what the machine seemed to have removed was Scarlet’s connection to the tree (it was stated in an interview after the Jubilee that Scarlet’s disconnected from the Dream and it wasn’t her choice). This implies any sylvari not tied to the Dream become more susceptible to corruption. Soundless and Malyck, look out.

There is no relation between sylvari and Mordremoth hinted at or implied.

Xukavi.4320:

True, that speculation was that Sylvari and Mordy minions and Pale Tree is Mordy’s Champ. But from what I understood so farm from talk about this release is that it’s showing to be partly true.

Then you understand wrong. All we know for certain is:

1. Omadd’s machine broke barriers in Scarlet’s subconscious.
2. It did not introduce anything.
3. Scarlet work up Mordremoth.

We still don’t know that the “entity” was Mordremoth, just that her goal was to wake the dragon. And how Mordremoth got to Scarlet – there’s many possibilities for this. It being tied to the Nightmare is one such possibility.

Xukavi.4320:

Why doesn’t Mordy have a champion?

Who says he doesn’t?

Xukavi.4320:

Do we know of any other trees having the same sort of Pale Tree but no Dream?

Malcyk, and supposedly his tree, hold no ties to the Dream.

Xukavi.4320:

Once again, this would point out that unless they had 2 diff stories (which I doubt), the Fall of Abaddon should have had a place in all this somehow. Now I’m not gonna say Abaddon is alive or he’s coming back, but what if Scarlet’s “New Master” was that same thing that “passed through the Mists that only he knows” and it was a way of showing or hinting us towards that?

I don’t think Abaddon’s fractal would have related to Scarlet. I recall reading that if Evon won, Lion’s Arch’s defenses would have been built up and stood a better chance against Scarlet.

With that being the “give” it seems the “take” of choosing Evon over Kiel is the lack of extra Scarlet info like the ley lines or Thaumanova connection (which would have left us confused why the Thaumanova was passed through when she tapped the ley lines).

Story wise, it seems the options were:
Evon – less knowledge on Scarlet, but stronger defense in finale
Kiel – more knowledge on Scarlet, but weaker defense in finale

Pure interpretation and conjecture though.

Shiren.9532:

Why did Scarlet place teleporters around Lion’s Arch that conveniently allowed us into her fortress? Can you imagine the Trojan war if the Trojans just built four back doors into their city?

Probably for her troops. Or herself.

Uruz Six.6594:

Mm. If Malyck’s tree has been parked next to Mordremoth all this time, the question to ask is if it has or hasn’t been corrupted for a while now. Not to mention that, in a sense, there are sylvari that have been corrupted: The Nightmare Court.

If we go with what’s been already theorycrafted: That the Dream has a physical base and not an inherent one with the sylvari and that Mordremoth is the source of the Nightmare, we’re left with only the Dream-connected sylvari susceptible to draconic influence. It almost sounds to me that its not Malyck’s people that are in horrible danger – its the Dreamers and courtiers.

Sylvari of the Pale Tree are immune to corruption – they die instead of becoming minions. This is outright stated for both Kralkatorrik and Zhaitan, but also mentioned in a general sense.

The Nightmare Court thus cannot be corrupted, but their inability to revert and their mental change do imply being heavily influenced. They all hold free will though, thus they are certainly not minions.

The theory would be that the Dream prevents corruption, thus Malyck – who had no dream – would be corruptible. Thus his tree could be too.

what was all the trouble she created that was useful to Tyria as she claimed, thats what i dont understand.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I would argue yes.

I would argue further. I would argue that the sylvari are immune because of the Dream. We were told that after the machine, Scarlet was disconnected from the Dream and it wasn’t a maintained meditation like the Soundless.

This would mean, therefore, that Malyck and his tree – which hold no Dream of Dreams experience – can be corrupted.

I’m not sure this quite works – Scarlet’s insanity began long before she was disconnected from the Dream. And even though the Nightmare Court are all evil and whatever, they are still very much connected to the Dream – in fact, their ultimate goal is to exploit this connection, rather than destroy it.

If only non-dreaming sylvari (and I am certainly not convinced that Malyck is one of these, if there are any) can be corrupted by Mordremoth, then it would mean that the Nightmare has nothing to do with Mordremoth – which, given that Nightmare Hounds and Nightmare Husks are among the few strong candidates we have for existing jungle dragon minions, seems unlikely.

Tamias.7059:

I’m not sure this quite works – Scarlet’s insanity began long before she was disconnected from the Dream.

Her insanity began with Omadd’s machine. This is when she became separated from the Dream. As stated in this interview, iirc.

Tamias.7059:

If only non-dreaming sylvari (and I am certainly not convinced that Malyck is one of these, if there are any) can be corrupted by Mordremoth, then it would mean that the Nightmare has nothing to do with Mordremoth

I don’t see why you argue this. Firstly, the Nightmare cannot be corruption. The Nightmare Court cannot be corrupted. Their immunity prevents corruption. If the Nightmare was corruption, all Courtiers would die upon conversion.

But if it’s influence instead, that’s a different matter. A means to twist and perhaps shatter the Dream of Dreams, thus allowing corruption later on. Or if it’s the closest to corruption that can occur while tied to the Dream.

I’d expand more, but I must leave now.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Never said Malyck was lying. Never said the Nightmare Court were corrupted (Gavin and other’s independence and different methodologies is pretty much proof they aren’t).

Just said that Malyck’s tree – which is said to be along the river to the west thus placing it somewhere in The Falls or Tangle Root of GW1 – is in the approximate location of the direction the line went – which was west of Rata Sum thus into Magus Falls (named after Magus Stones and The Falls of GW1). And that I suspect that Mordremoth is the root of Nightmare rather than being the source for the Dream. Influence is not the same as corruption, as the Sons of Svanir prove.

There’s also the question of why Malyck doesn’t have a Dream, and why his pod ended up so far away from his Tree. It’s possible that he was deliberately dropped in the river in the hope that he might find help. His lack of the Dream could be because, being closer to the Jungle Dragon, Malyck’s tree decided that it would be safer to disconnect from the Dream (and, thus, the Nightmare).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Xukavi.4320:

Once again, this would point out that unless they had 2 diff stories (which I doubt), the Fall of Abaddon should have had a place in all this somehow. Now I’m not gonna say Abaddon is alive or he’s coming back, but what if Scarlet’s “New Master” was that same thing that “passed through the Mists that only he knows” and it was a way of showing or hinting us towards that?

I don’t think Abaddon’s fractal would have related to Scarlet. I recall reading that if Evon won, Lion’s Arch’s defenses would have been built up and stood a better chance against Scarlet.

With that being the “give” it seems the “take” of choosing Evon over Kiel is the lack of extra Scarlet info like the ley lines or Thaumanova connection (which would have left us confused why the Thaumanova was passed through when she tapped the ley lines).

Story wise, it seems the options were:
Evon – less knowledge on Scarlet, but stronger defense in finale
Kiel – more knowledge on Scarlet, but weaker defense in finale

Pure interpretation and conjecture though.

Evon supporters have been making a lot of wild claims about how Evon would have done a better job in every conceivable fashion, claims Evon himself has been repeating. If you can’t remember the source for Lion’s Arch defenses being better established under Evon, my bet would be on it being one of those wild claims.

Truth is, I don’t think there’s anything that Evon really could have done in Kiel’s position that he couldn’t do as a private citizen, or that Kiel wasn’t already doing. At most, any difference would be because he’s harboring a grudge against Kiel and refusing to put any of his weight or resources in despite sharing a common interest in holding Scarlet off. Possibly because he wants to see Kiel fail even if that means Lion’s Arch is left unprepared in the face of invasion, possibly because his spite just doesn’t let him forgive a rival even if they’re on the same side (I suspect, given her opposition on the Council, if Kiel could have replaced one of those doubters with Evon she’d have done so in a heartbeat) – either way, if Evon being on the Council would have put Lion’s Arch in a better prepared position, when you think about how that may have come about, that actually doesn’t reflect too well on him.

EDIT: On Nightmare Hounds, we know what their origin is – they’re fern hounds that have been turned to the Nightmare in the same way that non-voluntary converts can be turned (ie, torture). The Husks may be minions of some description, but if the Court is being influenced, they could easily recognise the Court as allies without any actual corruption per se.