Guild Wars 2

Monocle
Players who face down the deadly Aetherblade Captain will have a CHANCE at a new, stylish Monocle. This dandy piece of Headgear is combat-ready, tradeable, and full of sophistication!

Aetherized Rewards
Your journeys through the Aetherblade Retreat will earn you a CHANCE for items like rare salvageable materials or a new infinite tonic recipe in addition to guaranteed rare item rewards. Enduring the trials of the Not So Secret jumping puzzle will win you a set of exotic shoulderpads.

Anet has made the word “CHANCE” become a GW2 Player’s MOST HATED english word ever.

slow clap

RNG isn’t a problem. RNG being account bound is. People didn’t mind Lady Kasmeer mini or the Molten mini, because it was available on the TP for the luck-aversed. Hopefully it’s similar to the MF rewards this time.

Ursan.7846:

RNG isn’t a problem. RNG being account bound is. People didn’t mind Lady Kasmeer mini or the Molten mini, because it was available on the TP for the luck-aversed. Hopefully it’s similar to the MF rewards this time.

People opening 5000 coffers and got nothing would probably disagree with you.

No they wouldn’t, because if the RNG item is not account bound, people would have another option to obtain it other than opening thousands of coffers (i.e., buying it off of the trading post).

Snowmoon.1758:

Ursan.7846:

RNG isn’t a problem. RNG being account bound is. People didn’t mind Lady Kasmeer mini or the Molten mini, because it was available on the TP for the luck-aversed. Hopefully it’s similar to the MF rewards this time.

People opening 5000 coffers and got nothing would probably disagree with you.

Ursan was saying that the Dragon’s Jade Weapon Claim tickets being account-bound is a problem.

Ursan.7846:

RNG isn’t a problem. RNG being account bound is. People didn’t mind Lady Kasmeer mini or the Molten mini, because it was available on the TP for the luck-aversed. Hopefully it’s similar to the MF rewards this time.

Agreed! And it says this one is trade-able, so I really don’t see it being a big issue.
It took some time, but ANet is learning from their RNG exploits it seems

This rng thing with gw2 im spending too much money om items that doesnt even worth that much value. Please stop doing it I will buy it u dont need to put them in boxes, crates, coffers, chests and whatever the next one is call. I bet its gonna be call pirate treasure chest. But please please PLEASE! Stop rng.

So monocle being a rare item drop from the end of a dungeon differs from any other MMO ever that had random item drops at end of a dungeon hooooooow exactly?

Snowmoon.1758:

Ursan.7846:

RNG isn’t a problem. RNG being account bound is. People didn’t mind Lady Kasmeer mini or the Molten mini, because it was available on the TP for the luck-aversed. Hopefully it’s similar to the MF rewards this time.

People opening 5000 coffers and got nothing would probably disagree with you.

Do you see people complaining about the Mini from the coffers? They’re random, with pretty small chance (0.75% according to the wiki) but people don’t mind because they can purchase it directly from the TP. RNG isn’t the problem, the account-bound factor is.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon_Coffer/drop_rate

AcidicVision.5498:

So monocle being a rare item drop from the end of a dungeon differs from any other MMO ever that had random item drops at end of a dungeon hooooooow exactly?

because they will delete the dungeon like a week after it comes out or whatever

raptor.1064:

AcidicVision.5498:

So monocle being a rare item drop from the end of a dungeon differs from any other MMO ever that had random item drops at end of a dungeon hooooooow exactly?

because they will delete the dungeon like a week after it comes out or whatever

I pretty much know that I won’t be able to do the dungeon for sure because I have no lv80 characters yet and don’t think I could make myself grind to get to it that fast.

So…. o well for me. That’s life. You don’t always get everything or even a shot at everything. So what ? Having a limited time dungeon and drop makes it more coveted for those who CAN get it and I don’t think that’s a bad thing.

I think it will be less of an issue as the game matures and these kind of things happen all the time so that while a person might have missed out on one particular shiny, there’s a new shiny to be had in the future.

There’s crap in WoW that sells for literally hundreds of dollars on eBay (which is against the TOS, but it happens) because it was a limited-time item or you had to go to an IRL event to get one. I don’t think it’s a problem for an MMO to do something like that. It didn’t make me feel cheated, it just meant I wasn’t around then or capable of getting it when it was around – so what ?

Not everyone can get everything. If someone wants it THAT BAD, they can try the Trading Post or spend IRL money to get enough gold to do so. Some people might be like, “omg greed !” but that kind of transaction would otherwise just happen on eBay or elsewhere. I think letting it happen within the community is a better solution than to ban it and fail – this way people get what they want and do what they’d be doing anyway and ANet benefits too and has it in a controlled environment with records of the transaction. Like, last I heard the random drop holographic wings are going for about $10 real money. That’s really not bad at all compared to the prices of everything else in the gem store – it seems like the economy is in a pretty decent place.

I’d say thanks A-Net but it’s not their fault. You can blame NcSoft for this joke.

The money is pumped into their other crappy games, not GW2, don’t expect any real new content for a long time to come.

If you hate RNG, you may want to support and discuss posts like the one pixelpumpkin made.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/3-Step-Solution-to-ALL-our-woes/

Or, perhaps mine.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/RNG-A-Soultion-For-All/

Breaking news: Every drop in this game uses RNG. There’s a chance to get a precursor from a world boss chest. There’s a chance to get a tier 6 crafting material from risen. There’s a chance to get a rare drop when fighting any enemy in the game. Need I go on?

The monocle sounds more like the jet pack from the Molten Facility dungeon than the weapon claim tickets. It’s a drop from the dungeon, not an RNG box. I’m not sure what the big deal here is. The only issue I can see is it will require you to play the dungeon if you want the item. (I know. How dare we have to play the game to get something? What kind of backwards concept is this anyway? /sarcasm)

If it isn’t account bound on acquire, then you’ll be able to buy it on the TP if you don’t get lucky. In that scenario, people that can’t get it as a drop will be happy and those that don’t want it will be able to sell it. I’m having trouble seeing what the problem is in this case. What you’ve quoted isn’t the same thing as the dragon coffers. Like, at all.

AcidicVision.5498:

So monocle being a rare item drop from the end of a dungeon differs from any other MMO ever that had random item drops at end of a dungeon hooooooow exactly?

“It’s the same frustrating mechanic you see in every other game,” is a terrible excuse, especially for a game with lots of innovative quality-of-life enhancements, like GW2.

That said, I don’t really mind seeing rare dungeon drops that can be purchased on the trading post. That’d be one of those “innovative quality-of-life” things I mentioned above.

That sucks. I hate dungeons and jumping puzzles, yet I have to do both in the next event if I want to have a “chance” to earn it.

Eyelusion.8205:

That sucks. I hate dungeons and jumping puzzles, yet I have to do both in the next event if I want to have a “chance” to earn it.

I love jumping puzzles so I’m happy. And it will be permanent (right?) so we’ll have time to practice (if the achievement is permanent, too, anyway, which remains to be seen)

I have high hopes for the dungeon, too, after the Molten Facility was so much fun.

As for the RNG items: no words yet on BLC-issued chests! Rare, but tradeable items. The monocle could be the next jetpack (?).

That’s the sort of RNG implementation that I don’t really have a problem with.

Of course, the Aetherblade weapons are probably still going to be RNG weapon tickets and stuff, but let’s wait and see.

When I was reading through the info on the GW2 News Page about the Sky Pirates I didn’t see anything that inferred more incoming gamble chests.

There are two types of RNG:
1. Really sucky gamble chests which have a ludicrously low chance of dropping the only thing you want, and that drop isn’t even tradeable.
2. A “Chance” for a (sell-able) rare drop in a dungeon.

The latter is “ok” in my book on the basis that it’s standard MMO practice. Don’t get complacent ArenaNet, I only said “ok”. The rewards so far are said to be available from the Aetherblade dungeon, I think this is “ok”. Even current dungeons in-game have special drops particular to those dungeons that are luck based drops. I really, really hope that if armour and weapons are available they shall be so with dungeon tokens though.

Given past events, I still expect unfairness.

Chance Wars 2 -.-"

So sad.

Nothing new. Yet people will still come on here and say how they’ve opened 200 billion crates of whatever and didn’t get anything. People play the lottery every day for 30 years and never win the jackpot. People open 5000 crates and never get the ticket. It’s RNG, it’s luck. People who get 3 tickets in 50 crates got lucky. You didn’t. Stop blaming the game.

Now being account bound was a problem. There would certainly have been less blowback if the tickets had been buyable on the TP.

Just my view.

Other than “Bits” and “Bytes” taking an online avatar through a virtual world MMO’s are really no different than the “Blood” and “Bones” that take our physical bodies through the real world.

Even “Real Life” keeps us prisoner to some form of RNG everyday, and just like in real life you are never going to have it all in a virtual world either.

In real life we have “the Lottery” and “Casinos” and when someone spends hundreds of dollars they don’t have only to lose it they tend to blame those who created that form of RNG.

In the virtual world we have “Drops” and Crates" and when someone spends hundreds of dollars they don’t have only to lose it they tend to blame those who created that form of RNG.

In both cases most will still repeat the whole “Chance” and “Blame” game of RNG regardless of it being real life or a virtual world.

Sure we could all say that we don’t play in a virtual world to experience real life, but the core of any fantasy world is still based on the real life experiences of the creator.

In this case its developers working for a company, and the creators don’t stay in a job and keep the company profitable by getting rid of all ties to real life. In which case in this genre it has always come down to either having RNG in a subscription based game or RNG in a virtual funds (bought with real life cash) based game.

Thing is in a virtual funds based RNG game there is less profit to maintain the game, developers, turn a profit, etc when and if to many things are allowed to be tradable, and that is the trade off to be had compared to a subscription game where almost everything can be traded to other players and non-tradable items are far fewer.

In the end your going to pay for your RNG experience one way or another and short of quitting gaming (or never buying virtual funds again) your not going to escape it.

Myself I understand that there are always going to be things that no matter how bad I may want them in-game I will never have them so I just don’t let greed get to me and instead just concentrate on having fun playing.

I was just happy to get a jade ticket out of the normal coffers as I would have never spent real money on just the chance of a skin alone in that style of obtainment.

People are starting to make it sound as if Gw2 is the only game in the universe to use RNG. Which MMO have you people played that doesnt make use of RNG exactly cause they all do!

Sure its not the most forgiving in terms of RNG, it does have some pretty low drop rates granted but its far far from the worst MMO out there. Every MMO has rare stuff that’s hard to get which you need to struggle to acquire. Believe it or not that’s actually important because without it content would have far smaller longevity.

what Michael Fejervary says above is very interesting. I would say that RNG is meant to in a way simulate real life in a simplistic way. What do I mean by that. Lets assume in the real life a thief does a hold up and steals money from a store. How much money does s/he get? In real life there is a whole chain of events that dictates that amount, When the case was last removed, how many sales they had since then, how many people paid with cash and how many payed by credit card etc… Now doing something like that in a game would be nuts. So we use RNG to simulate that. And whats the difference really? for the thief the amount of money s/he gets from the heist is random even though there is a non random process of how it got generated.

Further more Games would be extremely boring without any RNG at all. Imagine if each of the weapon skins in this update were a guaranteed drop by a specific mob which is the only way to have no RNG at all. Or imagine if all you had to do is talk to an NPC and take whatever weapon you wanted. 5 minutes and you’d have all that you desire with nothing to strive for.

Now dont get me wrong, not saying things are perfect as they are, there can be a middle road thats more optimal perhaps like SAB for example where you can earn tokens + have a chance to get the skin as a random drop. All I am saying is some people are just too much all out against RNG. RNG is important, it keeps things interesting.

Galen Grey.4709:

People are starting to make it sound as if Gw2 is the only game in the universe to use RNG. Which MMO have you people played that doesnt make use of RNG exactly cause they all do!

Sure its not the most forgiving in terms of RNG, it does have some pretty low drop rates granted but its far far from the worst MMO out there. Every MMO has rare stuff that’s hard to get which you need to struggle to acquire. Believe it or not that’s actually important because without it content would have far smaller longevity.

So, because other games use RNG, that makes RNG ok?

Not sure that’s the best argument.

Try it this way.

“Canada has really high rates for mobile service.”
“Canada isn’t the only country that overcharges for this service, many other countries do as well.”
“Oh, well I guess I shouldn’t complain then, I just didn’t want to be the only one paying too much.”

Galen Grey.4709:

what Michael Fejervary says above is very interesting. I would say that RNG is meant to in a way simulate real life in a simplistic way. What do I mean by that. Lets assume in the real life a thief does a hold up and steals money from a store. How much money does s/he get? In real life there is a whole chain of events that dictates that amount, When the case was last removed, how many sales they had since then, how many people paid with cash and how many payed by credit card etc… Now doing something like that in a game would be nuts. So we use RNG to simulate that. And whats the difference really? for the thief the amount of money s/he gets from the heist is random even though there is a non random process of how it got generated.

Further more Games would be extremely boring without any RNG at all. Imagine if each of the weapon skins in this update were a guaranteed drop by a specific mob which is the only way to have no RNG at all. Or imagine if all you had to do is talk to an NPC and take whatever weapon you wanted. 5 minutes and you’d have all that you desire with nothing to strive for.

Now dont get me wrong, not saying things are perfect as they are, there can be a middle road thats more optimal perhaps like SAB for example where you can earn tokens + have a chance to get the skin as a random drop. All I am saying is some people are just too much all out against RNG. RNG is important, it keeps things interesting.

I wrote half a post before I realised you aren’t Gaile Gray.

I don’t see what’s wrong with the token system. It eliminates the issues that people have with the RNG for time limited rewards, it promotes re-playability of the new content ensuring it’s both populated and rewarding (current content is seriously lacking rewards because RNG is the method used) and the SAB method maintains the “fun” of RNG by allowing identical unbound items which have more value to be obtained as well. Power traders can horde them, farmers can farm them and people who like to earn the rewards can opt out of the RNG and play the new content to obtain the new rewards through a clear pathway provided by tokens.

I abhor the current implementation of RNG and the damage it does to the game. It drains rewards from new content and it favours power traders and horders.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

Galen Grey.4709:

People are starting to make it sound as if Gw2 is the only game in the universe to use RNG. Which MMO have you people played that doesnt make use of RNG exactly cause they all do!

Sure its not the most forgiving in terms of RNG, it does have some pretty low drop rates granted but its far far from the worst MMO out there. Every MMO has rare stuff that’s hard to get which you need to struggle to acquire. Believe it or not that’s actually important because without it content would have far smaller longevity.

So, because other games use RNG, that makes RNG ok?

Not sure that’s the best argument.

Try it this way.

“Canada has really high rates for mobile service.”
“Canada isn’t the only country that overcharges for this service, many other countries do as well.”
“Oh, well I guess I shouldn’t complain then, I just didn’t want to be the only one paying too much.”

No my argument is not because everyone else does it, it automatically makes it okey but the fact all cars use round wheels says something about the idea of using square wheels even though per-se the fact all wheels are round doesnt automatically mean only round wheels are good.

You analogy isnt correct. The reality is all MMOs use RNG its not just many of them, its all of them. I am personally not aware of a single one that makes 0 use of RNG. That makes a big difference because if its just a number of games make a certain design decision its one thing, but if all of them do the same design decision than it means all of them came to the conclusion that the alternative is worst.

But enough suppositions. Tell me do you really think you would enjoy the game more if say you could get all the 12 weapon skins in 5 minutes then an average of 1 per week+ Cause I am pretty sure the answer to that is no. Tweaking RNG yes. I fully understand if you feel as it is the odds are too low and that perhaps getting a ticket every 3 days would be better. But no rng at all in my opinion would make the game very boring quickly.

Shiren.9532:

Galen Grey.4709:

what Michael Fejervary says above is very interesting. I would say that RNG is meant to in a way simulate real life in a simplistic way. What do I mean by that. Lets assume in the real life a thief does a hold up and steals money from a store. How much money does s/he get? In real life there is a whole chain of events that dictates that amount, When the case was last removed, how many sales they had since then, how many people paid with cash and how many payed by credit card etc… Now doing something like that in a game would be nuts. So we use RNG to simulate that. And whats the difference really? for the thief the amount of money s/he gets from the heist is random even though there is a non random process of how it got generated.

Further more Games would be extremely boring without any RNG at all. Imagine if each of the weapon skins in this update were a guaranteed drop by a specific mob which is the only way to have no RNG at all. Or imagine if all you had to do is talk to an NPC and take whatever weapon you wanted. 5 minutes and you’d have all that you desire with nothing to strive for.

Now dont get me wrong, not saying things are perfect as they are, there can be a middle road thats more optimal perhaps like SAB for example where you can earn tokens + have a chance to get the skin as a random drop. All I am saying is some people are just too much all out against RNG. RNG is important, it keeps things interesting.

I wrote half a post before I realised you aren’t Gaile Gray.

I don’t see what’s wrong with the token system. It eliminates the issues that people have with the RNG for time limited rewards, it promotes re-playability of the new content ensuring it’s both populated and rewarding (current content is seriously lacking rewards because RNG is the method used) and the SAB method maintains the “fun” of RNG by allowing identical unbound items which have more value to be obtained as well. Power traders can horde them, farmers can farm them and people who like to earn the rewards can opt out of the RNG and play the new content to obtain the new rewards through a clear pathway provided by tokens.

I abhor the current implementation of RNG and the damage it does to the game. It drains rewards from new content and it favours power traders and horders.

Sorry didnt mean to confuse anyone.. Have been using Galen Grey before my guild wars 1 days and before I knew Gaile Grey existed.

I completely agree. I personally like the way it was in SAB a lot better and hope it will used again in future events.

I would honestly rather just work for things without RNG. If I want a weapon skin, then I should be able to play the game, gain achievement points and earn one.

Look at the links I posted above.

While it may not be practical to use square wheels, maybe the solution is to not use wheels at all, but to develop a new strategy.

Snowmoon.1758:

Monocle
Players who face down the deadly Aetherblade Captain will have a CHANCE at a new, stylish Monocle. This dandy piece of Headgear is combat-ready, tradeable, and full of sophistication!

Aetherized Rewards
Your journeys through the Aetherblade Retreat will earn you a CHANCE for items like rare salvageable materials or a new infinite tonic recipe in addition to guaranteed rare item rewards. Enduring the trials of the Not So Secret jumping puzzle will win you a set of exotic shoulderpads.

Anet has made the word “CHANCE” become a GW2 Player’s MOST HATED english word ever.

slow clap

Perfectly acceptable. RNG can be used for good and bad. This implementation is good.

I dont think the problem you’re refering to is RNG per-se but rather more an issue of balancing the Odds themselves or perhaps including different methods on how to earn a prize. The method employed by SAB included both RNG and straight up tokens and it was a good sweet spot. Even the effort required was well balanced. By the end of the event I got 5 skins. If I farmed it extensively I could have go them all but definitely not on day one which is good.

But back to the debate, for example the holographic wings are a good example of how taking out rng from the equation doesnt mean you’ll make people happy. You can earn those wings without any RNG at all but it takes accumulating 100,000 Candies. To get 100k candies you’d need to farm 33k coffers give or take. I am not sure this can really be done without spending tons of money in a month! but not only that, how does that compare to RNG in terms of reward?

In 33k coffers based on the odds calculated on the wiki you should have as many as 33 tickets. In this case I would say I’d rather have RNG over the certainty any day. Especially because I am still at about 3k – 5k candies but RNG already gave me the wings ! Thank you RNG. On the other hand I opened over 2k coffers and am still sitting on 1 ticket.. Bad RNG but thats the nature of the game.

What I am trying to say is at the end of the day players dont care so much how you earn something only the effort required to earn something. If weapon tickets had the same drop rate as say fireworks from these coffers no one would be against RNG because they’d be swimming in tickets. On the other hand after the first day getting a coffer drop would be basically no different then getting a rare weapon drop because there would be nothing you particularly look forward to when opening one since you already finished collecting all the tickets yesterday.

I did read your links and there are some good ideas. I like that $10 of cash shop boxes would guarantee at least 1 ticket (you could do that by having a token in each box and have 5 redeem in a full ticket and I would make it so if you get a ticket you dont get a token to be fair.)

but for the most part whats suggested in those posts is already implemented.

Reward players for playing what they like? you can get coffers doing anything more or less
Have a way for people who dont want to spend money to earn a skins? thats coffers

I still think your main issue is with the effort involved to get a ticket rather then it being RNG.

Ceallach.8740:

raptor.1064:

AcidicVision.5498:

So monocle being a rare item drop from the end of a dungeon differs from any other MMO ever that had random item drops at end of a dungeon hooooooow exactly?

because they will delete the dungeon like a week after it comes out or whatever

I pretty much know that I won’t be able to do the dungeon for sure because I have no lv80 characters yet and don’t think I could make myself grind to get to it that fast.

.

you get up levelled to 80 for these dungeons so dont despair. if your on EU then hit me up ill take you through it i took a ton of people through the molten facility of all levels, think the lowest was 15.

Yeah I started disliking that word as well. Really getting tired of all cool stuff having a miniscule chance of obtaining them.

Galen Grey.4709:

Reward players for playing what they like? you can get coffers doing anything more or less
Have a way for people who dont want to spend money to earn a skins? thats coffers

I’m not sure that finding a ticket in a coffer is the same thing as earning it. It’s more like finding a $100 dollar bill on the sidewalk.

Sure, the prize is yours, and that feels good. But it came to you through luck, not skill, effort, or diligence.

Ceallach.8740:

raptor.1064:

AcidicVision.5498:

So monocle being a rare item drop from the end of a dungeon differs from any other MMO ever that had random item drops at end of a dungeon hooooooow exactly?

because they will delete the dungeon like a week after it comes out or whatever

I pretty much know that I won’t be able to do the dungeon for sure because I have no lv80 characters yet and don’t think I could make myself grind to get to it that fast.

So…. o well for me. That’s life. You don’t always get everything or even a shot at everything. So what ? Having a limited time dungeon and drop makes it more coveted for those who CAN get it and I don’t think that’s a bad thing.

I think it will be less of an issue as the game matures and these kind of things happen all the time so that while a person might have missed out on one particular shiny, there’s a new shiny to be had in the future.

There’s crap in WoW that sells for literally hundreds of dollars on eBay (which is against the TOS, but it happens) because it was a limited-time item or you had to go to an IRL event to get one. I don’t think it’s a problem for an MMO to do something like that. It didn’t make me feel cheated, it just meant I wasn’t around then or capable of getting it when it was around – so what ?

Not everyone can get everything. If someone wants it THAT BAD, they can try the Trading Post or spend IRL money to get enough gold to do so. Some people might be like, “omg greed !” but that kind of transaction would otherwise just happen on eBay or elsewhere. I think letting it happen within the community is a better solution than to ban it and fail – this way people get what they want and do what they’d be doing anyway and ANet benefits too and has it in a controlled environment with records of the transaction. Like, last I heard the random drop holographic wings are going for about $10 real money. That’s really not bad at all compared to the prices of everything else in the gem store – it seems like the economy is in a pretty decent place.

You have a good head on your shoulders.

Please don’t tell me people are going to start complaining about loot DROPS being random. It has always been this way…

As long as we stay away from gemstore RNG boxes, I’m fine.

I like to use selective reading just like the OP too…

Snowmoon.1758:

Monocle
Players who face down the deadly Aetherblade Captain will have a chance at a new, stylish Monocle. This dandy piece of Headgear is combat-ready, tradeable, and full of sophistication!

Aetherized Rewards
Your journeys through the Aetherblade Retreat will earn you a chance for items like rare salvageable materials or a new infinite tonic recipe in addition to GUARANTEED rare item rewards. Enduring the trials of the Not So Secret jumping puzzle WILL win you a set of exotic shoulderpads.

Hopefully this illustrates that the new update will contain a mix of guaranteed and RNG rewards, so I don’t really have a problem with it.

The monocle (and jetpack) aren’t bad because you can achieve them through ingame goals and sell them on the trade post.

The fact you can sell them makes them miles better than account bound lockboxes.

Ursan.7846:

RNG isn’t a problem. RNG being account bound is. People didn’t mind Lady Kasmeer mini or the Molten mini, because it was available on the TP for the luck-aversed. Hopefully it’s similar to the MF rewards this time.

That isn’t even the problem either…

RNG be PAID FOR is the problem. PAYING for a CHANCE at an item? wtf?

kitten the RNG, I don’t even bother trying to get these items cause the chance you get one (after blasting all your money) is 0,0000000001%

Most of you must be new to the f2p/b2p mmo’s, would you rather have rentals, restricted content (LS cost real $$ to unlock), talent skill change cost real money, or p2win (stats)? This game is pay2look good, and compared to other f2p/b2p this is the best it’s going to get.

Maybe entitled mmo players will finally get off the bandwagon of f2p/b2p & realize benefit to the sub model.

Wetpaw.3487:

This game is pay2look good, and compared to other f2p/b2p this is the best it’s going to get.

If you don’t care much about how your character looks. For me, how my character looks is the whole goal. I honestly don’t care about Ascended gear or end-game gear. I’ll get that when there is nothing left to get, but I like visuals more than anything.

Also, B2P & F2P are not the same. Mixing the two as if it’s the only way it works just isn’t true. Even GW1 was an example of that.

signahead.7281:

Galen Grey.4709:

Reward players for playing what they like? you can get coffers doing anything more or less
Have a way for people who dont want to spend money to earn a skins? thats coffers

I’m not sure that finding a ticket in a coffer is the same thing as earning it. It’s more like finding a $100 dollar bill on the sidewalk. Sure, the prize is yours, and that feels good. But it came to you through luck, not skill, effort, or diligence.

There isnt much difference really at a core level. Thing is there are various ways how you can go about it and all have their pros and cons.

At a core level you want players to spend X amount of time playing the game before you give them the reward. A token system like the one used in SAB is great if you enjoyed the content but completely locks you out for it if you dont were as the coffer system in dragon bash allows you to choose what content to play. But at the end of the day both systems have you fighting through content for a certain amount of time before rewarding you.

As for skill effort or diligence, opening the coffer itself involves non of that you’re right but acquiring the coffer does in most cases. I say most cases cause you could throw money at it and get the coffers with no efforts however the really low drop rate mitigates that to a point.

Thing is no system is perfect. The SAB system is great for us players but presents problems for Anet. Remember the idea is to motivate players to play by offering them rewards to acquire but with SAB the problem was players could go around the time barrier by creating / destroying alts and farming SAB continuously and acquiring the skins in a few days leaving nothing left to play for the remainder of the time.
Coffers on the other hand are immune to that because RNG can be configured to make sure most players will have to play days before getting a ticket. Its not a level playing field obviously in that some people are lucky but then again SAB wasnt a level playing field either because people who owned more character slots had an advantage too in a way.

The advantage of coffers over SAB is also that you can play any content you want rather the specific content. If you want do DE rather then farming holograms you’d still earn coffers for example. Even if you do personal story or dungeons. Not just that but technically you could craft and sell stuff and still get a shot at the skin by using profits to buy coffers off TP.

Bottom line everything has its pros and cons. The skills / effort comes in acquiring the coffers rather then opening them. Getting the skins is the result of luck true but it also means you went though great effort to get enough coffers so you could get lucky. That effort is what earned you the reward. I dont think a single person who’ll get the skin (well perhaps a few really lucky ones) will feel they dont deserve the skin cause they didn’t work hard enough for it.

Kain Francois.4328:

The monocle (and jetpack) aren’t bad because you can achieve them through ingame goals and sell them on the trade post.

The fact you can sell them makes them miles better than account bound lockboxes.

You have a chance to achieve them, for a limited time.
If you aren’t lucky enough, you have just wasted your time.
That’s the problem. A system like the one implemented with SAB was fair. You can be lucky and get a sellable version, but you can also grind if you want one for yourself; and you had a month to do that anyway, unlike the Molten Facility and the new dungeon.

There are already better looking monocles in game anyhow.

Wait… are the people in the thread seriously complaining about rare drops from dungeons being an RNG cash grab?

People really will complain about anything…

rizzo.1079:

There are already better looking monocles in game anyhow.

For medium armor classes …

RNG from dungeons and PVE in general isn’t the problem.
The problem is when people actually support the game and buy gems with real money, they shouldn’t be slapped in the face with crappy rewards.