Guild Wars 2

After writing and deleting a vitriolic rant that was not in the least constructive, but boy howdy did it make me feel better, I’ll just say I don’t want to play Caithe or any other NPC in this game, ever again.

I’ve got my own characters, thanks. Level 80 and geared up and built to my own specifications. If you want me to know what Caithe did in the past, please just show me a cutscene.

Thanks.

I get why they did it but I feel that it took away 80 lvls of you fixing your character the way u want only to see your hard work thrown out. You are not alone with being mad about it. You can’t pay me to do the achievements for this episode but I do think a way to improve the experience is allow us to exchange some of the skills with other thief skills we feel more comfortable with and skills that fit our gear better.

I respect your opinion but feel the opposite way.

I am playing my own level 80 day in, day out, and I found it refreshing to (in a memory, which is hardly the norm – it is one hell of an exception) be able to use Caithe’s (OP) skills.

And then I didn’t get to play her all the time either as I was with friends and we took turns starting the instances, but I will be back for sure so I can play through all instances as Caithe.

In my opinion, there’s nothing wrong with switching things up a bit every now and then.

But if you don’t like this (which you’re of course entitled to) then just enter somebody else’s instances (they’re all on LFG plenty) and your skill bar won’t change at all.

I agree. This part of the story felt excessively forced.
I stated earlier that even gameplay elements felt like they were added due to a dev being overly infatuated with other franchises and that in GW2 this just doesn’t fit.

Not only that, i must be the only tired of seeing NPC’s be superior to players. It’s an extremely sour taste. The player character should be the focal point systems are designed around. The fact that virtually every NPC now has their own Deus Ex device for combat is annoying. Anet should remember the universal scope, if I a player cannot do something, no NPC should (bearing extreme circumstances that should be explained) be able to. Looking at you 400 bone fiend, massive bone bridge, instant portals without sight etc….

These are glaring story and gameplay issues that leave you the PC (hero) feeling stupidly inadequate and frankly useless for anything more than a director.

I have just read the skills and did the rotation… who cares. Still, you can play in group, when you will be just Caithes warden with just your class, while Caithe will be one of your party members

Throughout the course of the season, we have played our characters. I thought this was a good change of pace taking control of a different character for once.

i was immensely enjoying caithe’s immensely OP thief skills (8 seconds of continuous backstabs without reveal, anyone?) before i encountered the stealth bug and couldn’t continue with the episode. more of this please though anet!

I loved playing as Caithe, if only because the missions gave me the old GW1 bonus mission pack vibes where you played as various heroes from GW1 lore. Said heroes were Gwen, Turai Ossa, Saul D’lessio, and Togo. As far as I was concerned, this is merely GW2’s take on it (as in, playing another character going through parts of their backstory and additional lore).

I do not want to party up to complete a personal story. I do not want to play as a thief.

It is rare enough that new content is created – and I really enjoy seeing the story unfold, but this is just frustrating and annoying. If I want to play as a thief I will switch to the character I created and took to level 80 and play a thief. I do not enjoy the play style of thieves, and I never will. Give me the option when I enter the mission to CHOOSE whether I want to play as the main character or as a companion with my own class.

I love my toons ArenaNet. I log on to play my toons. I cannot politely express my absolute hatred for not getting to play my toon to achieve goals in game. I hated it when I pressed one button repeatedly to kill Zhaitan, I hated it on the Triple worms (to the point where I’ve only deliberately been into the encounter once), I hate it every time I run into it in game, I hate it now. I am always going to hate it.

Please stop replacing my favorite guy and his skills with things I don’t want. If you want to give people who like that aspect the option, put an object in game that lets players choose it.

I had a fair bit of time to contemplate this while waiting for Faolin to kill mobs for me. What with me being stuck in stealth.

And by the way, exposition doesn’t have to be boring. There are plenty of time honored ways to show rather than tell. Even when those fail, good writers know to keep the pain brief. You did neither.

I’m only through the Metrica content so far. I’ll soldier through the rest, but I sure hope it gets better.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

But if you don’t like this (which you’re of course entitled to) then just enter somebody else’s instances (they’re all on LFG plenty) and your skill bar won’t change at all.

I know you are trying to be helpful, but I don’t think it’s an adequate solution to say that if I want to play my toon in a single player instance, I need a party . . .

I agree! I don’t know how to fight as a friggin’ Thief and have been getting my butt kicked trying to get the second door switch activated. I could do a helluva lot better with a char that I know!

I don’t understand the issue here. Playing as Caithe was fun. I don’t know thief either but it was still a very easy missions since the damage was good. It’s only ONE chapter in the game…don’t need to cry over it.
But pvers gotta cry over everything no matter how little it is.

You’ve played your own character for over 2 years. 2 hours at most of playing an overpowered thief isn’t going to kill you.

Playing as someone else can be fun and interesting, but it’s a trick to be used sparingly. This… was pretty heavy handed.

Also, don’t forget that you keep the build you normally have. For some people, that just doesn’t work well with Caithe’s fighting style.

Finally, I want to say this: Grab a bow next time, you stupid, fraking salad!

Boy, you guys would have hated the original Bonus Mission pack then.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Bonus_Mission_Pack

Basharic.1654:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

But if you don’t like this (which you’re of course entitled to) then just enter somebody else’s instances (they’re all on LFG plenty) and your skill bar won’t change at all.

I know you are trying to be helpful, but I don’t think it’s an adequate solution to say that if I want to play my toon in a single player instance, I need a party . . .

YOU call it a single player instance – I call it a story instance. If you want to solo it, you can (just as you can solo a dungeon path) but that doesn’t mean that it is designed to be played solo. For instance, getting the sneak achievement is easiest if both door panels are operated at the same time – by 2 players.

Let’s just be glad that these story instances can (unlike living story content in the past) be soloed, duoed, OR partied… – and these instances added some variety too, allowing players to play as themselves OR Caithe.

I have been very critical of ANet’s design decisions in the past, depending on the occasion of course, but in this case, we really DO have all the options.

But I guess ANet can add all the options and choices and some players still aren’t happy Then such is life.

I enjoyed playing as Caithe aswell, it’s a nice change. How-ever I fully understand not everyone feels that way. Making it optional in the future (which it more or less is if you play with people) would be the best please-everyone-option I guess. ^^

jciardha.3495:

Boy, you guys would have hated the original Bonus Mission pack then.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Bonus_Mission_Pack

Yeah, pretty much. At least that was just ‘hey, bonus stuff’ instead of something we had to do to progress through a ‘living’ story.

Anyway, I have 14 characters in GW2, 12 of which are 80s. I have one of every profession, two of most. I’m here to play my characters, not Anet’s characters. I don’t enjoy playing an NPC, especially an NPC in a past mission where nothing I do will affect the outcome, because it’s already happened. We get enough of that already.

Yeah, that was pretty terrible. We should have had a choice to play either the npc, or our own character. What if I don’t feel like learning how to play someone else’s character? Too kittening bad, I guess. I was angry the whole time, and just wanted to get past the episode asap. Just terrible, guys.

Y’all can do better; I know it.

I loved this episode. Loved playing a new CHARACTER. I love the new ideas coming out in recent updates. I say bravo and bring on more like these. Missions like these only broaden the game, while also giving us an idea of what can be done. As with anything else there are gonna be people who don’t like something. I am not one of those people in this regard. Bravo on a job well done Anet!

I must agree with the OP for the same reasons I despise picking up an environmental (branches etc.) weapons and dropping them as if they are on fire. I understand ANet wants us to see and do things through the eyes of another, but I didn’t spend as much time as I have learning exactly what my skills can do in a certain situation to have them scrapped at the drop of a hat.

I also don’t play a thief and as such the play style is foreign to me even if her skills are op as some have said. As an older gamer it isn’t as easy as most would think to abandon all my hard learned rotations and abilities just to try and learn a new set at the drop of a hat; hence the reason I have only one main and a few crafting mules.

Please in the future give us the option to choose, Thanks.

I was indifferent to Caithe’s skill bar but enjoyed being asked to play as her character. There aren’t many, if any, other ways to allow first-person playable flash backs.

I can understand not wanting to play as another character, but I think the concept that our character has to be as powerful or more powerful than any NPC is pathologically self-centered. No realistic world can revolve around one character or wait for us to descend from the heavens as the ultimate deus ex machina.

OP, I completely and totally disagree. I like my characters, but I get to play them 99.9999999999999% of the time.
I found this segment of the living story interesting and highly enjoyable. It has been my favorite so far—my only disappointment was it was too short.
I loved being able to see the beginnings of Caithe, Faolin, and other important sylvari characters—the firstborn, Ceara (Scarlet), early nightmare court…. and I really enjoyed being able to play a “villain” role in slaughtering that centaur village.
Honestly, the vitriol some people are spewing at having to play an npc, ONE TIME, in the over-two-years the game has been out, for a very short period…. that just isn’t logical.

This kills the replay value for me.

I have brought 8 characters most of the way through season 2 (some are 1 or 2 chapters behind). Now, I’m looking forward to all of them being reduced to the same character with the same skills that’ll give me the exact same playing experience.

I cringe at the idea of doing this 7 more times, whereas I enjoyed playing previous story instances with different professions.

And to be honest, I didn’t even like playing with Caithe’s skills the first time.

Bodatoda.8953:

We should have had a choice to play either the npc, or our own character.

Play with a friend! \o/

Tachenon.5270:

I’m here to play my characters, not Anet’s characters.

Play with a friend…

Tommyknocker.6089:

Please in the future give us the option to choose, Thanks.

Have you considered playing with a friend?

Manasa Devi.7958:

I cringe at the idea of doing this 7 more times, whereas I enjoyed playing previous story instances with different professions.

Can always play with a friend…

:)

ONE player out of 1-5 party members is turned into Caithe… the others are not. Still not ideal for players who don’t want Caithe’s OP skills AND insist on soloing everything, but, like, I’m saying, you DO have options. What is more important to you? Your own skill bar, or being the instance owner?

Did you fail to read the ‘I don’t want to do the living story in a group’ bit?

The living story never felt like it was supposed to be group content, and I prefer to enjoy it at my own pace.

Although honestly I found the stealth section and the annoying washed out lighting far more annoying than being forced to play a character I’m not interested in with a skillset I don’t like playing.

Cosine.1786:

Did you fail to read the ‘I don’t want to do the living story in a group’ bit?

I didn’t fail to read – did you?

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Still not ideal for players who don’t want Caithe’s OP skills AND insist on soloing everything, but, like, I’m saying, you DO have options. What is more important to you? Your own skill bar, or being the instance owner?

With that being said,

Cosine.1786:

The living story never felt like it was supposed to be group content

That’s your opinion. I duoed all of the personal story with my partner, and prefer to do the living story chapter with the same group of friends since the Molten Facility.

I’m not saying that either of us are “right” or “wrong” – indeed I believe that we’re the best proof for WHY it is a good thing that living story chapters can be soloed or grouped. There have been instances that forced people to group up, and there have been instances that could only be done solo. Every time somebody felt left out. We criticized both, and ANet listened. Now we have the choice pretty much all the time. Sorry it didn’t go 100% (but definitely 50%) your way this time. Don’t forget though that depending on what’s more important to you, you could still solo, and you could still use your own skills. Just not at the same time. Collectively, we’ve had it worse in the past.

Add me as another voice strictly against forced Session Play (that’s what LotRO used to call the mechanic of playing a signature character – and it was rubbish in LotRO as well). I absolutely hated playing Caithe – same as I hate playing d/d thiefs (only managed to get my thief to 80 because I ditched the daggers).

Playing out memories is fine, as long as we’re along for the ride as spectators and play our own characters in another guise. But not as the owner of the memory with possibly completely different skills, which possibly require a completely different build (I hit like a wet noodle against the all enemies as Caithe but utterly destroyed them when a friend had to suffer through Caithe and I was allowed to play my main character).

I played through once alone, then was hugely relieved to find what happens when you go in with a group so two of us had our normal skills and only one person had to be Caithe. It was primarily the whole not wanting to be Caithe thing that got us to team up at all. It makes the extra playthroughs for the leg pieces go much faster. Particularly amusing was “Caithe” getting one shot at the beginning of the fight with the centaur boss and the other two finishing him off. And Canach wasn’t the only prisoner still alive at the end of the asura bit!

Since I play a Thief as my main, dropping into Caithe’s shoes took no time at all. Her skills are a variation on the core Thief skills I’ve used for countless hours.

Even as a non-Thief, it shouldn’t be hard to grasp. Makes for a different boss encounter.

Agreed. I want to play my own class with my own skills, not spend time on reading dubious descriptions for skills which cannot be reallocated just for some 30 minutes of gameplay. Luckily, it’s at least possible to keep your skills as Caithe’s warden when in a party.

As soon as I played the Story I knew this thread was coming. So I immidiately put the popcorn in the microwave, and prepared the lube on my desk.

This thread didn’t dissapoint, 10/10.

I never played my thief with daggers. I never played such a long time in infight rang for over two years. I died over ten times and it was annoying. On the other hand it was very immersive to play as Caithe and not as a fake Caithe with Ranger/Necro/ or whatever skills.

Another +1 from me, OP.

Not that this is the first time we’ve dealt with this sort of thing. ANet loves their gimmicky “toolkit” design a little too much.

Welcome to the thread where all the people gather that leaves all the conjured weapons on the floor because “It’s not my skills”

Also applicable:
“I didn’t make a character just to pick up some environmental weapon that does everything for me”
“You know that storystep, where you enter an amazing golem suit, I hate it because it’s not my skills and I worked sooooooo hard (LOL) on my character”

You know that one moment when you have caledbolg? Or that moment on the turrets VS tequatl? Or that moment where you use those balthazar skills in the attack on Lions arch? Or Hidden Arcana, where you use buffs instead of any skills at all to kill the boss?

Tyria is doomed with such worthless “Pact Commanders” that can’t even adapt to a situation. =P

What’s wrong with a little change? I loved playing as Caithe (As OP as she was)…It’s not like she replaced my character and they are gone forever…It was one story chapter that lasted a little over 40 minutes. I know people don’t like to leave their comfort zones, but Jesus guys…

Rauderi.8706:

Another +1 from me, OP.

Not that this is the first time we’ve dealt with this sort of thing. ANet loves their gimmicky “toolkit” design a little too much.

And hopefully keep to it. It’s fun for people who likes to play videogames.
I enjoyed these missions. The Asura lab stealth game was well thought and the last boss was fun.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Welcome to the thread where all the people gather that leaves all the conjured weapons on the floor because “It’s not my skills”

Exaggerate much?

Conjured weapons and banners (and even turrets) are a persistent part of the game. They contribute to class synergy and are very useful in specific situations since they provide extra utility which you don’t have. You can get swiftness from Banner 3 in both Queensdale and Arah p4, you can cast Ice Bow 5 in both AC and Fractals 50.

Saladborg and Caithe’s transformation are nothing more than gimmicks made for lulz providing new short-term experiences to players who crave it. That’s the difference.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Tyria is doomed with such worthless “Pact Commanders” that can’t even adapt to a situation. =P

“Pact Commanders” do not like artificially imposed complexity, that’s it.

EDIT: attached a chart for conjured weapons. Just FYI, it’s not always “pick it up and press buttons to win”.

It is fun occasionally, but not all the time. I think it worked well for one episode. However I do wish they gave us a different weapon set or that we weren’t so kitten as thieves.

Are thieves really that weak all the time?

As an optional side story or bonus mission pack, i have no issue playing as Caithe. In fact as side stories, all of the destinys edge could have something similar, as ling as they were optional.

As the main story, yes I agree, not playing as my own character was disappointing. It wasnt an horrific experience however, not like the GW1 missions as Turai for example and the story was at least interesting if you ignore some of the lore breakers.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

It is fun occasionally, but not all the time. I think it worked well for one episode. However I do wish they gave us a different weapon set or that we weren’t so kitten as thieves.

Are thieves really that weak all the time?

Caith’s moveset was OP as hell…I don’t know what you’re talking about.

My first 80 was a thief. The skills aren’t the issue, playing Anet’s character instead of one of my own characters is the issue. As in, I don’t want to do that. Ever again. For reasons previously stated. That’s not what I’m here for. I’m not here to have Anet tell me what my characters say and/or do, either, although given the nature of the medium, some compromise is unavoidable. Jory, however, is not my NPE Ele’s ‘rock’, thank you very much, Anet.

Also:

Caithe: Don’t mind me (for the second time).
NPE Ele: Yes, I think I will mind you. What the kitten is with the stalking?
Caithe: I’m not stalking, I’m coming with you.
NPE Ele: Not this time, flare girl. (walks away, Caithe follows)
NPE Ele: Caithe? What did I just say?
Caithe: Don’t mind me.
NPE Ele: (activates Sylvari Trapping Urgent Fighting Force homing signal/mini-gate; six hand-picked Pact commandos trained in anti-sylvari tactics and armed with specially formulated anti-sylvari weed spray suddenly appear and hose down yet another sylvari gone mad). Lock her up and keep her under observation. I’ll deal with her when I get back.
STUFF: Sir, yes, sir!

Kagamiku.9731:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

It is fun occasionally, but not all the time. I think it worked well for one episode. However I do wish they gave us a different weapon set or that we weren’t so kitten as thieves.

Are thieves really that weak all the time?

Caith’s moveset was OP as hell…I don’t know what you’re talking about.

What do you normally main as? Caithe did about 1/10th the damage as my ele and had no second weapon set.

For reference my ele and necro can each do what caithe’s stealth backstab damage did, except in an AOE, while moving, with much better positioning.

Lishtenbird.2814:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Welcome to the thread where all the people gather that leaves all the conjured weapons on the floor because “It’s not my skills”

Exaggerate much?

Conjured weapons and banners (and even turrets) are a persistent part of the game. They contribute to class synergy and are very useful in specific situations since they provide extra utility which you don’t have. You can get swiftness from Banner 3 in both Queensdale and Arah p4, you can cast Ice Bow 5 in both AC and Fractals 50.

Saladborg and Caithe’s transformation are nothing more than gimmicks made for lulz providing new short-term experiences to players who crave it. That’s the difference.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Tyria is doomed with such worthless “Pact Commanders” that can’t even adapt to a situation. =P

“Pact Commanders” do not like artificially imposed complexity, that’s it.

You haven’t read the reactions in this thread. =P I was partially joking ofcourse, but this thread does seem to have some people who are like that.

As for saying that they are gimmicks to appease certain players, that is complete nonsense. Especially in this specific episode it only made sense to have Caithe’s skills.

As for artifically imposed complexity, lol, this whole game world is artificially complex, I don’t see why we would keep holding on to our shiny fork when we are met a memory of a knife wielder. It’s like saying “Oh hey I worked so hard for my fork, so I should use a fork at all times. It’s just artificially complex to use a knife.”

Hell, people suggesting that in a game we need to watch a frikking cutscene. Like wth. xD It’s a game, this isn’t sit back and relax watching things happen. You get the story through interaction with the game.

I can agree that Caithe’s skills are a bit wonky here and there. But that it’s out of place and everyone needs to feel like they are their special snowflake self (you really aren’t) is such an outdated concept for MMO games. OH look it’s the hero who is all powerful and I should revere for being so brave for….grinding a few levels and getting to know a few skills and do their 36572142 combo and kill everything. (IT works every time!)

Any real heroic character would know how to improvise, at any time. You should be glad you can’t get disarmed in this game otherwise you’d die once you loose your greatsword because that’s the only weapon you know. “oh no it’s overly complex to pick up this discarded dagger right next to me, because daggers are just crap”

Sorry, but I can’t really take this seriously.

I didn’t really mind considering I’ve been bored of the same weapon skills for ages. Just makes me wish even more that they’d add new ones and let me actually change them around. This LS was also extremely short so you didn’t really have to do much of it.

Fun Master.3728:

I do not want to party up to complete a personal story. I do not want to play as a thief.

It is rare enough that new content is created – and I really enjoy seeing the story unfold, but this is just frustrating and annoying. If I want to play as a thief I will switch to the character I created and took to level 80 and play a thief. I do not enjoy the play style of thieves, and I never will. Give me the option when I enter the mission to CHOOSE whether I want to play as the main character or as a companion with my own class.

Let’s consider this. Out of all the quests you have since you have played this game, how many instances have there been where you play a different character? Very few, to be honest. In fact 95 percent of the time, you play your character. While I may agree that playing a character that differs from my playstyle can put others off, consider that an opportunity for you to at least expand your horizons a bit.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Kagamiku.9731:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

It is fun occasionally, but not all the time. I think it worked well for one episode. However I do wish they gave us a different weapon set or that we weren’t so kitten as thieves.

Are thieves really that weak all the time?

Caith’s moveset was OP as hell…I don’t know what you’re talking about.

What do you normally main as? Caithe did about 1/10th the damage as my ele and had no second weapon set.

For reference my ele and necro can each do what caithe’s stealth backstab damage did, except in an AOE, while moving, with much better positioning.

Uh, I did the LS on both my warrior and my thief…My damage was far lower on the thief who was using dire gear, while my Warrior was using zerker. so I half suspect Caithe is somewhat affected by the gear/class you’re playing. Even if she is not, I did not notice the issue you were having. She could take a hit and her move set was so insanely good that I rarely even had to. Her 2 skill was a complete evade that reflected projectiles and damaged for two seconds (on a short cool down.) She had a nice gapcloser (heartseeker)… Caltrops pretty much stopped every AI in radius in their tracks with long bleeds and cripple.And finally, the cream of the crop; her elite skill, an 8-10second (not sure on times) invisibility that persists even after dealing damage. So you’re essentially invulnerable to damage (because the AI is too dumb to use AOE skills) all while being able to attack…And the cooldown is fairly short as well.

Though a quick thing to note…Make sure you hit them from behind, it deals just about double damage. Back stab and all.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Hell, people suggesting that in a game we need to watch a frikking cutscene. Like wth. xD It’s a game, this isn’t sit back and relax watching things happen. You get the story through interaction with the game.

That’s all Caithe’s past misadventures should have been: cutscenes.

In my opinion, of course.

There was plenty of opportunity for ‘interaction with the game’ using our own characters. We could have fought our way into tremendously dangerous places, fought horrific bosses, maybe even fought the ghosts of the centaurs, in order to plant the memory seeds in the right spots. Imagine if we’d had the option to find some way to put those centaur ghosts to rest, which, for a sylvari character especially, might have been a very cool thing to do. Restoring the family honor, so to speak.

That would have worked much better for me.

Tachenon.5270:

That’s all Caithe’s past misadventures should have been: cutscenes.

In my opinion, of course.

There was plenty of opportunity for ‘interaction with the game’ using our own characters. We could have fought our way into tremendously dangerous places, fought horrific bosses, maybe even fought the ghosts of the centaurs, in order to plant the memory seeds in the right spots. Imagine if we’d had the option to find some way to put those centaur ghosts to rest, which, for a sylvari character especially, might have been a very cool thing to do. Restoring the family honor, so to speak.

That would have worked much better for me.

Well those are some pretty interesting alternatives I must say. But just the reasons stated that it wasn’t a good thing because our characters skills and gear and such, feels like a complete silly thing to consider when writing the story.

To me cutscenes are so boring most of the time and you don’t really get what is going on. Seeing that some people felt resentful towards Caithe and have mixed feelings about the whole ordeal that happened gives such a great insight into caithe as a character. I think this had a greater deal of effect than a simple cutscene ever would have had. Which was the whole plan in the story itself, -I- think.