Living story = players not returning?

Living story = players not returning?

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Posted by: BlueZone.4236

BlueZone.4236

Despite a drop in Guild Wars 2’s player base following its initial release last year, the game is seeing a slow but steady rise in players following the introduction of bi-weekly updates, lead designer Isaiah Cartwright told Polygon.

“We’ve been able to stabilize since the post-launch decline, and we’re seeing slow but steady growth in concurrent players and also overall,” said Cartwright.

Cartwright didn’t specify the number of players involved, but noted it’s common to see a drop in players immediately following the launch of any MMO and that the initial burst of players in the first few weeks of launch is not a “normal” representation of the player base.

How anyone can interpret this as having more players playing compared to launch is beyond me.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I don’t know. I’ve been saying we have more players now than we did in November, before the exodus of people who hated ascended weapons and vertical progression. I played the game then and now, and my observations back it up.

In November, pre-fractals, I was hardly ever on an overflow. Server caps were raised and I’m on overflows a lot more. There are often multiple overflows. I know this from trying to party with guildies and several of us having to move to get together. This rarely happened in November.

As I keep saying, the game LAUNCHED with a lot of people and a lot of people left quickly. Which is the reason Anet panicked and started vertical progression.

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Posted by: Skan.5301

Skan.5301

Or prepping for the Koreans and Chinese that love kitten like that. Normal people term it “gold farming”.

I’ve only noticed overflows in LA on Saturdays. I play on JQ btw.

And server cap raised = more overflows. Makes sense. Do go on.

“Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.”
– Euripides

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Posted by: Chewablesleeptablet.3185

Chewablesleeptablet.3185

This is ridiculous IMO.

Players not wanting to play because they will miss out on new content? How does that even work? When you log in you will be experiencing the newest content available. What does it matter that you weren’t able to participate in Flame and Frost months ago?

If content was presented like, these players who feel this way in real life, would you really want to go through WWII again, or just know that it happened and thanked god for not being around at that time.

Missing out on things is a part of life. This philosophy goes hand in hand with “Living” story.

By all means complain about it, but I hope it is here to stay. IMO it is dumb to complain because you will be playing new content every time you log in if you don’t get that much game time. It is the players who play 2-3 hours each day who suffer because once they finish that little bit of content it is another couple of weeks until they see anything new again.

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Posted by: Smith.1826

Smith.1826

In regards to temporary content, I still don’t agree with it. It works perfectly for active players. It does nothing for returning and new. I also don’t think it’s healthy for the people making the content, either. I’d imagine it can be taxing putting your best into something that will literally be gone after a few weeks. I’d rather they focus their effort into making pieces of the game that’re worthy of sticking around forever.

I get trying to encourage ‘active play’, but at the cost of deleting content?

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Posted by: Xcom.1926

Xcom.1926

I don’t care if you believe me. The conversation happened. It’s not relevant to me whether you believe me or not. The fact that my own observations back up what he said is another matter.

Anyone with eyes can see people logging in and playing on patch day. Multiple overflows all over the place. Even if people only play for a week, and stop again for a week, there’s still high concurrency for that week.

Or did you think overflows spawned all by themselves for no reason?

Overflows happen on T1/T2 servers. Ocassionally T3 servers but that is about it.

About the dev you spoke to. Usually in most MMOs the higher ups only have that type of info. So in GW2’s case it would be Mike O’Brien or Colin and maybe the higher ups in NCSoft. They don’t share that type of concurrency info with all Devs, only a select few. This is the case not just with GW2 but most MMOs. The info is too sensitive to share with everyone.

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Posted by: IvoryOwl.3275

IvoryOwl.3275

Alright, I know this is a long post but please bear with me as I try to explain myself.

First things first, the Living Story.

I loved the aesthetic of the Wind Bazaar, how richly cultural and interactive it was. It was more than a new location, it was like a hub for people to gather, to trade, to have fun exploring every nook and cranny and how much lore it hinted at. Although there was rewards and achievements in every turn, it didn’t felt like a shore at all because I was just having fun.

I also loved the brawls and dark and gritty humor of the Mad King Thorn from the Halloween update. A welcome change from the “ever-so bright and humorous” world that is Tyria.

And this is where most of the other Living Word stories fall apart. Its like the quality went down the drain, the story started being sub-par, revolving around uninteresting characters and everything thing turned into a treadmill with a carrot on a stick.

The way I see it, I think the ArenaNet devs are straining themselves too much on these two week update schedule and its starting to sacrificing their ability to cope with the quality that people expect. I don’t want to sound harsh but… I think that throwing plot ideas into the paper and hoping it pleases people is the wrong path to walk. I know that they’re doing it because they NEED to keep people interested. People = cash. But its getting to a point where the pipe is loosing all its bolts and there’s steam jets all over. People are getting tired and annoyed of how things are being done. What will the devs do when it reaches the point where it stops being enough? When people start leaving, more than expect and anticipated? What then?

My suggestions:

- Drop the two-weekly schedule and change to something that gives more breathing room. Like an update each month for example. It gives more time to plan and test how things should be done and this would also assure more quality.

- You’ve got a wonderful game with so many lore to explore and delve into. Much of which we have yet to discover! Take advantage of that and give us something to help develop our understanding of the game and our characters (RPers).

- Stop focusing on the idea of rewards = fun. Rewards are just rewards, but its the not the entirety of the journey. This is like going with the mentality that the end of the road is what matters. We’re not here to do shores and we’re not robots, we need FUN balanced with grinding.

-Visit the GW2RP forum, be inspired by the people that use and love your product. Read profiles, fan-generated plots and stories. Understand what we love and our worries, what we accept and what we do not.

- Focus on more gritty and dark aspects while still being reasonable. For all the worries and dark feelings the game has tried to pass unto us as we played, its still too shallow. I’m sorry to say it but I can’t take Scarlet seriously nor respect her as villain and certain aspects on the world need to change too to accompany what is going on. I understand that GW2 is supposed to be a lighthearted game with comedy, but a healthy dose from the opposite side of the coin is needed too!

You can do it ANet!

(edited by IvoryOwl.3275)

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Posted by: dcypher.2590

dcypher.2590

Unless you want to call the devs liars, you can. The devs have said straight out concurrency is on the rise. I believe them from my own observations.

Some people are coming back, some people are new from the free weekend, and of course, some people have left. No different than any other MMO.

They said it was a rise after the post launch slump. So the player base could have gone down 60% post launch and from there on in it stabilized. We won’t know exactly what the number is.

No. they said it recently and the dev I spoke to said it’s been a consistent rise, particularly on patch days. People are playing.

I’m not talking about an old quote. I’m talking about a conversation I had with a dev (wearing his Anet tag) just a few days ago. The same dev said the dragons in Arah story mode look dorky. lol

You should know better, really. None of that is enough evidence that the player base and concurrent player numbers are any bigger. Until we have factual numbers, your statement is just speculation, just like lower numbers being speculation. A chat with someone who from a PR standpoint could very well be biased does not mean anything really.

Except that everything else he was saying wasn’t PR bullkitten, and that makes a difference. This guy wasn’t spinning stuff. He’s not in PR. This guy was talking down more stuff than up and when I mentioned the living story coming too often, he told me about the response they were getting to it.

So you can believe what you want, but I was the one who spoke to him and if he was doing some PR job on me he did a lousy job of it. I didn’t come away from talking to that guy thinking this was an amazing game or company.

Well, I could tell you that I spoke with Obama yesterday and he told me that aliens colonized mars. Trying to use that as proof to support an argument would be rather dumb, though.

I don’t care if you believe me. The conversation happened. It’s not relevant to me whether you believe me or not. The fact that my own observations back up what he said is another matter.

Anyone with eyes can see people logging in and playing on patch day. Multiple overflows all over the place. Even if people only play for a week, and stop again for a week, there’s still high concurrency for that week.

Or did you think overflows spawned all by themselves for no reason?

Hmm..the only map I’ve experienced overflows in was Sparkfly fen… never anywhere else. Since the map limit is only around 200..thats really not all that many people. I don’t care what you care about really… I’m telling you that doesn’t support your argument in a public forum. Whatever you believe that’s fine, but trying to use it against other people who were not present during your chit-chat as some sort of proof is silly.

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Posted by: BlueZone.4236

BlueZone.4236

Guys on teamspeak organizing a Teq kill was saying the limit is soft capped at 100, which sounds about right since there was just around 100 people on the Teq killing channel on TS. They organized everyone to move to an overflow map, a commander disconnected after moving to overflow and couldn’t get back in.

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

In November, pre-fractals, I was hardly ever on an overflow. Server caps were raised and I’m on overflows a lot more. There are often multiple overflows. I know this from trying to party with guildies and several of us having to move to get together. This rarely happened in November.

You’re on TC, iirc. TC is a popular server. If you’re observing more people playing, some of that could be from transfers. Some of your observed “growth” may be the result of observed “decline” on other servers (in quotes because the observations on both sides are anecdotal).

How people interpret their observations is going to depend on whether they’re taking a glass half empty view or a glass-half-full view. You like the game, hence you take a glass half full approach. On the Rift boards, you had a glass-half-empty view, because you disliked what that game offered. There’s nothing wrong with either stance, but I do find it interesting because you’ve gone from outspoken critic to outspoken defender — all because one game provides what you like and the other one didn’t.

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Posted by: Xcom.1926

Xcom.1926

You’re on TC, iirc. TC is a popular server.

I learned my lesson and moved to a T1 server (not TC but Blackgate), such a better experience.

(edited by Xcom.1926)

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I don’t care if you believe me. The conversation happened. It’s not relevant to me whether you believe me or not. The fact that my own observations back up what he said is another matter.

Anyone with eyes can see people logging in and playing on patch day. Multiple overflows all over the place. Even if people only play for a week, and stop again for a week, there’s still high concurrency for that week.

Or did you think overflows spawned all by themselves for no reason?

Overflows happen on T1/T2 servers. Ocassionally T3 servers but that is about it.

About the dev you spoke to. Usually in most MMOs the higher ups only have that type of info. So in GW2’s case it would be Mike O’Brien or Colin and maybe the higher ups in NCSoft. They don’t share that type of concurrency info with all Devs, only a select few. This is the case not just with GW2 but most MMOs. The info is too sensitive to share with everyone.

I’m telling you what he told me. It’s pretty obviously what he’s been told. Why would he lie?

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Posted by: Xcom.1926

Xcom.1926

I don’t care if you believe me. The conversation happened. It’s not relevant to me whether you believe me or not. The fact that my own observations back up what he said is another matter.

Anyone with eyes can see people logging in and playing on patch day. Multiple overflows all over the place. Even if people only play for a week, and stop again for a week, there’s still high concurrency for that week.

Or did you think overflows spawned all by themselves for no reason?

Overflows happen on T1/T2 servers. Ocassionally T3 servers but that is about it.

About the dev you spoke to. Usually in most MMOs the higher ups only have that type of info. So in GW2’s case it would be Mike O’Brien or Colin and maybe the higher ups in NCSoft. They don’t share that type of concurrency info with all Devs, only a select few. This is the case not just with GW2 but most MMOs. The info is too sensitive to share with everyone.

I’m telling you what he told me. It’s pretty obviously what he’s been told. Why would he lie?

Developers do try to paint the best picture of their game, it is just natural. We don’t know exactly what that developer said or the context of the convo. But if he said “Population goes up during patch day”, I believe him. If he said “Concurrency is going up since launch” I absolutely don’t, since Izzy already said there was a post launch decline. It really depends on the context. “Concurrency gone up since last month” I would also believe as an example of context.

Once example is this:

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/view/news/read/24266/Erickson-Denies-Declining-Sub-Numbers.html

An SWTOR dev said sub numbers weren’t declining, the next month or so EA said it declined. Yes I don’t believe developers because if you know anything about statistics you an mold it to fit your pretty little definition.

(edited by Xcom.1926)

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Posted by: Red Falcon.8257

Red Falcon.8257

I have returned this July after quitting in Feb but due to Anet’s class fixing, I never did any living story thing.

Let’s be honest here; the chances of making and properly coding a good story in a short time span are abysmal.
Better focus on gameplay and content, pretty sure players would take a new dungeon more gladly than a one-time playable story.

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Posted by: Time Glitch.2460

Time Glitch.2460

First, I am not leaving. I play every day and do most of the LS content.

I am in 3 guilds, 2 of which are dead. I have had friends in my 2 dead guilds start asking me about what is going on in GW2 because they heard about all the new content and where thinking about coming back. So I tell them about all the great updates we have had, but then I have to tell them, “sorry, it was temporary so you missed out”.
It’s a real downer. None of my friends has any interest in returning once they find out they missed so much content that they will most likely never see again. Telling them there is new content every 2 weeks makes no difference it seems.

Has anyone else experienced this with their friends? Opinions? Is LS really a reason not to return?

I have to agree with this.

I have had a hard time justifying coming back to this game because I feel like since I missed something, I’ll never be able to “catch up”. It’s like I might as well not even bother because everyone’s got all this cool stuff and gear that I don’t.

And it gets worse the more temp content they add. “Better play it now or it’ll be gone forever!” The fact that it has a time limit also sucks. During those 2 weeks, I might only be able to play over the weekends. Bye bye any achievements or cosmetic items I might want, because they’re designed to take 2 weeks to get.

kitten temporary content. It’s a terrible idea for any game, especially an MMO.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I don’t care if you believe me. The conversation happened. It’s not relevant to me whether you believe me or not. The fact that my own observations back up what he said is another matter.

Anyone with eyes can see people logging in and playing on patch day. Multiple overflows all over the place. Even if people only play for a week, and stop again for a week, there’s still high concurrency for that week.

Or did you think overflows spawned all by themselves for no reason?

Overflows happen on T1/T2 servers. Ocassionally T3 servers but that is about it.

About the dev you spoke to. Usually in most MMOs the higher ups only have that type of info. So in GW2’s case it would be Mike O’Brien or Colin and maybe the higher ups in NCSoft. They don’t share that type of concurrency info with all Devs, only a select few. This is the case not just with GW2 but most MMOs. The info is too sensitive to share with everyone.

I’m telling you what he told me. It’s pretty obviously what he’s been told. Why would he lie?

Developers do try to paint the best picture of their game, it is just natural. We don’t know exactly what that developer said or the context of the convo. But if he said “Population goes up during patch day”, I believe him. If he said “Concurrency is going up since launch” I absolutely don’t, since Izzy already said there was a post launch decline. It really depends on the context. “Concurrency gone up since last month” I would also believe as an example of context.

Once example is this:

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/view/news/read/24266/Erickson-Denies-Declining-Sub-Numbers.html

An SWTOR dev said sub numbers weren’t declining, the next month or so EA said it declined. Yes I don’t believe developers because if you know anything about statistics you an mold it to fit your pretty little definition.

Okay, except that, as I said, he wasn’t painting the best picture of the game or the company. He was pretty casual. He was also pretty negative about certain things. So you can’t then go and say suddenly he finds this company line he wants to spout after talking some stuff down.

It doesn’t make any sense.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

First, I am not leaving. I play every day and do most of the LS content.

I am in 3 guilds, 2 of which are dead. I have had friends in my 2 dead guilds start asking me about what is going on in GW2 because they heard about all the new content and where thinking about coming back. So I tell them about all the great updates we have had, but then I have to tell them, “sorry, it was temporary so you missed out”.
It’s a real downer. None of my friends has any interest in returning once they find out they missed so much content that they will most likely never see again. Telling them there is new content every 2 weeks makes no difference it seems.

Has anyone else experienced this with their friends? Opinions? Is LS really a reason not to return?

I have to agree with this.

I have had a hard time justifying coming back to this game because I feel like since I missed something, I’ll never be able to “catch up”. It’s like I might as well not even bother because everyone’s got all this cool stuff and gear that I don’t.

And it gets worse the more temp content they add. “Better play it now or it’ll be gone forever!” The fact that it has a time limit also sucks. During those 2 weeks, I might only be able to play over the weekends. Bye bye any achievements or cosmetic items I might want, because they’re designed to take 2 weeks to get.

kitten temporary content. It’s a terrible idea for any game, especially an MMO.

There are very few achievements that are designed to take two weeks to get. Most of the stuff you can get in two days.

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Posted by: Lord Kuru.3685

Lord Kuru.3685

If the Living Story were bigger — with whole zones changing permanently: say, Orr is repopulated, trees are now growing everywhere, etc (kind of like the evolution of Southsun Cove) then people who missed out on the process of this happening would at least get to see and explore a whole new Orr.

As it is, most of the Living Stories leave very little trace in the open world when they are done.

But it’s doubtful Anet is bold enough to toss aside the personal story (which would likely have to change drastically if the world were truly to change) and allow such major changes.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

If the Living Story were bigger — with whole zones changing permanently: say, Orr is repopulated, trees are now growing everywhere, etc (kind of like the evolution of Southsun Cove) then people who missed out on the process of this happening would at least get to see and explore a whole new Orr.

As it is, most of the Living Stories leave very little trace in the open world when they are done.

But it’s doubtful Anet is bold enough to toss aside the personal story (which would likely have to change drastically if the world were truly to change) and allow such major changes.

I think you’ll be surprised with what will change. Remember, there are more big project teams than living story teams, and most of the stuff we’ve been seeing is from the living story teams.

The other content isn’t available yet…because it takes longer to create.

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Posted by: kossman.8206

kossman.8206

A content update every 2 weeks where I generally get 1 month to get it done (and sometimes it is permanent). I do not see that as a hectic schedule. The other thing is you can simply ignore content you do not like. For example I skipped Dragon Bash and this round of S A B. I simply didn’t like the content. That being said I felt no need to kitten about it. And sorry but that is what this is. Not all the content is going to appeal to you and you alone so get over it. This type of consistent content update is what many players of many MMOs would beg for.

^^^^^This

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Posted by: Mortifer.2946

Mortifer.2946

As my fall semester started and I started to have meaningful problems again, I practically stopped caring about missing out the content. Though, I still don’t like living story and would rather pay for normal expansion.

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Posted by: Sirendor.1394

Sirendor.1394

There’s actually more people playing now than at launch. Sorry your guild failed.

vayne, is that you?

Well, vayne, you and your guild just keep playing Guild Wars 2 the moment a couple of new MMORPGs hit home (early next year), I’m sure they’ll keep the game up for you guys alone, cause that’ll be about all the players they have active at that moment.

Gandara – Vabbi – Ring of Fire – Fissure of Woe – Vabbi
SPvP as Standalone All is Vain

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Posted by: GekoHayate.2451

GekoHayate.2451

Couldn’t they add like a storybook item or something hat lets you revisit this content in an instance?

Or even better, add a Priory NPC you have to do a one-time small quest chain (help him/her find an artifact or something and make it related, like a tome that allows the reader to relive pasts events) that will allow you to pick and revisit the content as a repeatable permanent feature.

Heck, even doing a small quest chain to find something to attune to the living story would be fine even if you had to attune each chapter separately (leftover flame legion items from the molten event or something).

This lets 1 time content have a longer life-span, keeps some items that are currently no longer attainable back in the game, and even lets you interact and assist more with an important faction of Tyria. Maybe have a variant of each quest chain for each of the 3 factions, with faction specific rewards for the amount of living story chapters you help recover/attune.

This feature could continually evolve as well… this needs to happen!

Havroun of Karp – Disciples of Magikarp [Karp]

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Posted by: Kaiyanwan.8521

Kaiyanwan.8521

Players like to play. At their own pace. MMOs offer content, you can explore at your own pace. Normally, Devs add stuff, so there is more content you can discover at your own pace.
One time events are rare and between in other MMO’s for a reason, they annoy people who can not participate.

Making a whole game dependend on one time events (call it Living Story) destroys most players intent to play at their own pace, because it becomes mandatory to play at the pace of the dev cycle, if you want to experience the content.

The game changes from a hidden grind (most games are, some more hidden than others) to a count-down grind, which feel like pressure. People want to get away from the everyday pressure if playing. This produces a paradox, and people will stop enjoying the game.

End of story, they will avoid the stress that is the result of the new content.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

There’s actually more people playing now than at launch. Sorry your guild failed.

vayne, is that you?

Well, vayne, you and your guild just keep playing Guild Wars 2 the moment a couple of new MMORPGs hit home (early next year), I’m sure they’ll keep the game up for you guys alone, cause that’ll be about all the players they have active at that moment.

Bet me. People said the same thing about other games as well. SWToR, Rift, TSW, they’re all still doing okay. Guild Wars 2 will do fine.

First of all, most of the games coming out, they’re pay to play. A lot of people do play this game because it has no monthly fee. Secondly, most of them are more typical standard MMOs. I’ll never play another game with the trinity again. I think it’s a joke.

But mostly, you underestimate how many people like this game. Games don’t need millions of players to do well.

You know what will happen? A game will come out, a bunch of people will check it out, and most will end up coming back. Why? Because hype is always better than a new game.

Me and my guild are one guild among many. It’s only 130 people, it’s not even a big guild. There are guilds that are much bigger.

And of course, with all the games out now, not one of them is good enough to draw them away. Rift, Lotro, DDO, WoW, TSW…and those people are still here playing.

You may not like the game, and that’s fair enough. But you have no clue what anyone else likes. Why not just admit it?

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Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

If the Living Story were bigger — with whole zones changing permanently: say, Orr is repopulated, trees are now growing everywhere, etc (kind of like the evolution of Southsun Cove) then people who missed out on the process of this happening would at least get to see and explore a whole new Orr.

As it is, most of the Living Stories leave very little trace in the open world when they are done.

But it’s doubtful Anet is bold enough to toss aside the personal story (which would likely have to change drastically if the world were truly to change) and allow such major changes.

I think you’ll be surprised with what will change. Remember, there are more big project teams than living story teams, and most of the stuff we’ve been seeing is from the living story teams.

The other content isn’t available yet…because it takes longer to create.

No, the “other” content isn’t available yet because they haven’t decided how to give it to us, paid expansions or free living story. Until they do it will all be living story fillers.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

If the Living Story were bigger — with whole zones changing permanently: say, Orr is repopulated, trees are now growing everywhere, etc (kind of like the evolution of Southsun Cove) then people who missed out on the process of this happening would at least get to see and explore a whole new Orr.

As it is, most of the Living Stories leave very little trace in the open world when they are done.

But it’s doubtful Anet is bold enough to toss aside the personal story (which would likely have to change drastically if the world were truly to change) and allow such major changes.

I think you’ll be surprised with what will change. Remember, there are more big project teams than living story teams, and most of the stuff we’ve been seeing is from the living story teams.

The other content isn’t available yet…because it takes longer to create.

No, the “other” content isn’t available yet because they haven’t decided how to give it to us, paid expansions or free living story. Until they do it will all be living story fillers.

I don’t believe that other content is finished. They are delivering things as they’re finished. For example, the Tequatl fight wasn’t designed by one of the living story teams, it was designed by a team that worked just on that. It was ready and they delivered that battle through the living story.

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Posted by: TheDaiBish.9735

TheDaiBish.9735

I’m pretty sure if player numbers were going down, instead of staying steady or rising, they wouldn’t continue with that approach.

Life is a journey.
Time is a river.
The door is ajar.

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Posted by: Sylv.5324

Sylv.5324

relevant to me, I’m no AP ‘must have’ seeker by a long shot, but I’m not about to chuck it all in ‘just because’.

People are always looking for reasons to find extreme fault over things that are not worth that many dramatics, especially folks whose main game was WoW or a close knockoff. That attitude will never encourage ANet to change for them, because they know there’s no pleasing fairweather players who’ll ragequit at any slight deviation from their demands.

Ardeth, Sylvari Mesmer
Tarnished Coast

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Posted by: Sylv.5324

Sylv.5324

Well, vayne, you and your guild just keep playing Guild Wars 2 the moment a couple of new MMORPGs hit home (early next year), I’m sure they’ll keep the game up for you guys alone, cause that’ll be about all the players they have active at that moment.

The fact that you’re gloating about it shows that you’re more interested in being vindictive than anything else. Instead of just moving on to a new game, you WANT this one to die. You WANT the fun of other people who are happy to be damaged just because you didn’t get your way.

There is always some peel-off when new games come out, just like some of those players return. The nice thing is that the lack of a sub model means it’s free for people to play a new game for a while, then come back, or play both games— and many people I know are playing, for example, both GW2 and FF, especially during the lull in content or while it’s a LS expansion they’re not that into and so they have more time right now to split between both games.

But they’re all intending to play the hell out of GW2 during Halloween, XMas, and whatever LS installment they like.

Ardeth, Sylvari Mesmer
Tarnished Coast

(edited by Sylv.5324)

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Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

If the Living Story were bigger — with whole zones changing permanently: say, Orr is repopulated, trees are now growing everywhere, etc (kind of like the evolution of Southsun Cove) then people who missed out on the process of this happening would at least get to see and explore a whole new Orr.

As it is, most of the Living Stories leave very little trace in the open world when they are done.

But it’s doubtful Anet is bold enough to toss aside the personal story (which would likely have to change drastically if the world were truly to change) and allow such major changes.

I think you’ll be surprised with what will change. Remember, there are more big project teams than living story teams, and most of the stuff we’ve been seeing is from the living story teams.

The other content isn’t available yet…because it takes longer to create.

No, the “other” content isn’t available yet because they haven’t decided how to give it to us, paid expansions or free living story. Until they do it will all be living story fillers.

I don’t believe that other content is finished. They are delivering things as they’re finished. For example, the Tequatl fight wasn’t designed by one of the living story teams, it was designed by a team that worked just on that. It was ready and they delivered that battle through the living story.

Not “finished” but certainly they have already started on some sort of Expansion-content that includes loads of new zones and the next Dragon. Guild Wars : Factions was released one year after the original release of Guild Wars, and I’m positive they didn’t make it in 1 month (it’s unreasonable to even think it)

I don’t even want to think that they haven’t started working on an Expansion due to the Living Story.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

If the Living Story were bigger — with whole zones changing permanently: say, Orr is repopulated, trees are now growing everywhere, etc (kind of like the evolution of Southsun Cove) then people who missed out on the process of this happening would at least get to see and explore a whole new Orr.

As it is, most of the Living Stories leave very little trace in the open world when they are done.

But it’s doubtful Anet is bold enough to toss aside the personal story (which would likely have to change drastically if the world were truly to change) and allow such major changes.

I think you’ll be surprised with what will change. Remember, there are more big project teams than living story teams, and most of the stuff we’ve been seeing is from the living story teams.

The other content isn’t available yet…because it takes longer to create.

No, the “other” content isn’t available yet because they haven’t decided how to give it to us, paid expansions or free living story. Until they do it will all be living story fillers.

I don’t believe that other content is finished. They are delivering things as they’re finished. For example, the Tequatl fight wasn’t designed by one of the living story teams, it was designed by a team that worked just on that. It was ready and they delivered that battle through the living story.

Not “finished” but certainly they have already started on some sort of Expansion-content that includes loads of new zones and the next Dragon. Guild Wars : Factions was released one year after the original release of Guild Wars, and I’m positive they didn’t make it in 1 month (it’s unreasonable to even think it)

I don’t even want to think that they haven’t started working on an Expansion due to the Living Story.

Oh, I agree with that. But then, they have far more bugs to fix here than they ever did in Guild Wars 1. And some of those teams are working on other stuff (the wallet, ending culling, LFG tool are examples). In other words some are working on content others on quality of life upgrades.

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Posted by: Sirendor.1394

Sirendor.1394

Well, vayne, you and your guild just keep playing Guild Wars 2 the moment a couple of new MMORPGs hit home (early next year), I’m sure they’ll keep the game up for you guys alone, cause that’ll be about all the players they have active at that moment.

The fact that you’re gloating about it shows that you’re more interested in being vindictive than anything else. Instead of just moving on to a new game, you WANT this one to die. You WANT the fun of other people who are happy to be damaged just because you didn’t get your way.

There is always some peel-off when new games come out, just like some of those players return. The nice thing is that the lack of a sub model means it’s free for people to play a new game for a while, then come back, or play both games— and many people I know are playing, for example, both GW2 and FF, especially during the lull in content or while it’s a LS expansion they’re not that into and so they have more time right now to split between both games.

But they’re all intending to play the hell out of GW2 during Halloween, XMas, and whatever LS installment they like.

Not really, I was kind of sardonic because Vayne may think this game is going the right way, but for a big share of players it is not. I don’t particularly wish this game to die, it would actually be nice if it came back with better ideas, I would play in that case, but this grindy/zergy/farmy mess isn’t really what I call a game. I’m just being realistic in the fact that GW2 will have to act fast or they’ll be knocked down by the next big hit, which hopefully has less of the dreaded zerg/grind/farm in it. I still have some small hope that the game isn’t finished yet, but it’s diminishing with the day.

Gandara – Vabbi – Ring of Fire – Fissure of Woe – Vabbi
SPvP as Standalone All is Vain

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Posted by: Chuo.4238

Chuo.4238

This is a very big reason why I quit playing, too (but not the only one). I miss a lot of content due to travelling for my job. After missing enough, I just don’t see the point in logging in any more. So I don’t.

Between tier gear and this temporary content, Guild Wars 2 has become a game that’s not for me. I hate to say it, because I loved Guild Wars and played it for years. But Guild Wars 2 is just a disappointment.

There is no quality to the play. It just feels like a game that’s desperately trying to make me think I must log on with mediocre, rapid-fire, temporary content.

Which, if you think about it, is a very different thing than a game that’s so good I want to log on.

That’s the difference between Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2.

(edited by Chuo.4238)

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Posted by: minbariguy.7504

minbariguy.7504

[SNIP] It just feels like a game that’s desperately trying to make me think I must log on with mediocre, rapid-fire, temporary content.

Which, if you think about it, is a very different thing than a game that’s so good I want to log on.

Word.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Well, vayne, you and your guild just keep playing Guild Wars 2 the moment a couple of new MMORPGs hit home (early next year), I’m sure they’ll keep the game up for you guys alone, cause that’ll be about all the players they have active at that moment.

The fact that you’re gloating about it shows that you’re more interested in being vindictive than anything else. Instead of just moving on to a new game, you WANT this one to die. You WANT the fun of other people who are happy to be damaged just because you didn’t get your way.

There is always some peel-off when new games come out, just like some of those players return. The nice thing is that the lack of a sub model means it’s free for people to play a new game for a while, then come back, or play both games— and many people I know are playing, for example, both GW2 and FF, especially during the lull in content or while it’s a LS expansion they’re not that into and so they have more time right now to split between both games.

But they’re all intending to play the hell out of GW2 during Halloween, XMas, and whatever LS installment they like.

Not really, I was kind of sardonic because Vayne may think this game is going the right way, but for a big share of players it is not. I don’t particularly wish this game to die, it would actually be nice if it came back with better ideas, I would play in that case, but this grindy/zergy/farmy mess isn’t really what I call a game. I’m just being realistic in the fact that GW2 will have to act fast or they’ll be knocked down by the next big hit, which hopefully has less of the dreaded zerg/grind/farm in it. I still have some small hope that the game isn’t finished yet, but it’s diminishing with the day.

What makes you think I think the game is going the right way? I’ve already said, many times, I’m against vertical progression in principle, and I’m not a big fan of grind, particularly achievement point grind. I think living stories come out too often and have too many achievements attached to them. The people who play all the time will burn out and stop playing if it keeps up for much longer. I told the dev I was talking to this as well, which is when he brought up how good the concurrency numbers have been.

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Posted by: minbariguy.7504

minbariguy.7504

Vayne, I really, really think you are trying waaaaaay too hard here. And it feels to me like you are starting to circle back on yourself. For example, you wrote:

I guarantee you that if players weren’t logging in in increasingly larger numbers, Anet would not have added three teams to the living story team.

They didn’t look at the numbers, say this isn’t working and ramp it up.

This seems to imply that ANet doesn’t do anything if the numbers don’t support their actions, which presumably is intended to nullify any argument that Living Story isn’t working.

But in a different (yet very similar) thread, you wrote:

I remember reading a blog post where Anet told everyone that they experiment, try things and sometimes throw out entire systems if they seem not to be working. This means everything they do is actually up for grabs. What they were doing didn’t seem to be working, so they made a change.

Sooo…which is it?

Does Anet experiment and throw out systems they find not to be working, or do they not even put a system into the game unless their metrics show that it will be successful?

Isn’t it just possible that the reaction to Living Story has not been as positive as they would like? And that, like the experimental systems that you yourself mentioned, it needs to be changed or thrown out?

Again, I have to state that if you (or anyone else, for that matter) happen to like the Living Story, that is perfectly valid. But you should also acknowledge that people who don’t like Living Story have their own perfectly valid reasons as well.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Vayne, I really, really think you are trying waaaaaay too hard here. And it feels to me like you are starting to circle back on yourself. For example, you wrote:

I guarantee you that if players weren’t logging in in increasingly larger numbers, Anet would not have added three teams to the living story team.

They didn’t look at the numbers, say this isn’t working and ramp it up.

This seems to imply that ANet doesn’t do anything if the numbers don’t support their actions, which presumably is intended to nullify any argument that Living Story isn’t working.

But in a different (yet very similar) thread, you wrote:

I remember reading a blog post where Anet told everyone that they experiment, try things and sometimes throw out entire systems if they seem not to be working. This means everything they do is actually up for grabs. What they were doing didn’t seem to be working, so they made a change.

Sooo…which is it?

Does Anet experiment and throw out systems they find not to be working, or do they not even put a system into the game unless their metrics show that it will be successful?

Isn’t it just possible that the reaction to Living Story has not been as positive as they would like? And that, like the experimental systems that you yourself mentioned, it needs to be changed or thrown out?

Again, I have to state that if you (or anyone else, for that matter) happen to like the Living Story, that is perfectly valid. But you should also acknowledge that people who don’t like Living Story have their own perfectly valid reasons as well.

I’m not trying too hard. You’re not allowing for time. Between the time I posted the first thread and the time I posted the second, I had a conversation with a dev in game. Surely this isn’t that hard to understand.

And these things aren’t mutually exclusive anyway. I think you’re trying too hard to disprove me.

Edit: Saying someone is looking at the numbers and responding to them has nothing to do with them iteration systems to see if other things work. But what might cause them to iterate and try something else is low numbers.

It doesn’t mean it’s the ONLY thing they look at and it doesn’t mean they do it all the time. I think you’re just a bit confused.

(edited by Vayne.8563)

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Posted by: minbariguy.7504

minbariguy.7504

I’m not trying to hard. You’re not allowing for time. Between the time I posted the first thread and the time I posted the second, I had a conversation with a dev in game. Surely this isn’t that hard to understand.

And these things aren’t mutually exclusive anyway. I think you’re trying too hard to disprove me.

Edit: Saying someone is looking at the numbers and responding to them has nothing to do with them iteration systems to see if other things work. But what might cause them to iterate and try something else is low numbers.

It doesn’t mean it’s the ONLY thing they look at and it doesn’t mean they do it all the time. I think you’re just a bit confused.

I’m not trying to disprove you, Vayne. I just said that your feelings for Living Story were perfectly valid. I have absolutely no problem with you whatsoever. I happen to like your optimism and passion for the game, even if I do not share it.

I just feel as though when people try to explain why they don’t care for Living Story, your first instinct is to try to dismiss their feelings. You don’t seem to be able to accept that anyone could legitimately dislike Living Story content.

And I can’t understand why.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I’m not trying to hard. You’re not allowing for time. Between the time I posted the first thread and the time I posted the second, I had a conversation with a dev in game. Surely this isn’t that hard to understand.

And these things aren’t mutually exclusive anyway. I think you’re trying too hard to disprove me.

Edit: Saying someone is looking at the numbers and responding to them has nothing to do with them iteration systems to see if other things work. But what might cause them to iterate and try something else is low numbers.

It doesn’t mean it’s the ONLY thing they look at and it doesn’t mean they do it all the time. I think you’re just a bit confused.

I’m not trying to disprove you, Vayne. I just said that your feelings for Living Story were perfectly valid. I have absolutely no problem with you whatsoever. I happen to like your optimism and passion for the game, even if I do not share it.

I just feel as though when people try to explain why they don’t care for Living Story, your first instinct is to try to dismiss their feelings. You don’t seem to be able to accept that anyone could legitimately dislike Living Story content.

And I can’t understand why.

I’m not dismissing anyone’s feelings. First of all, my feelings about the living story is that they come out too often and have too many achievements associated with them. That’s my opinion. I like the idea of the living story and I like some of the content, but I don’t like the way the game attempts to pressure players. So I’m not all raving about the living story.

What I’m against, what I’ve always been against is the ridiculous hyperbole, or the use of language to make stuff seem much worse than it is. Such as when someone says, there has been on actual content added to this game. That’s complete crap. Of course there’s been actual content added to the game. It’s content that poster doesn’t like but the phrasing is misleading and I’ll call someone on it every time.

Expressing your dislike for the living story is one thing. But saying it in a way that dismisses everyone else’s opinion that likes it is something else. In other words, by saying stuff like there’s been no actual content, someone is implying that people who are enjoying it aren’t actually experiencing content.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I’m entitled to call someone on how they express it.

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Posted by: minbariguy.7504

minbariguy.7504

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Well there, see? We do agree on something.

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Posted by: Valanga.5942

Valanga.5942

(in fact I know they have, I talked to a dev in game recently and unless he was lying, they have numbers).

I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who said that…

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Posted by: minbariguy.7504

minbariguy.7504

While the enticement theory you’re referencing is definitely in effect, it’s pretty misleading to call it a sales pitch. They already have your money, right?

By the way, guess what just popped up on my Facebook page? An advertisement for Guild Wars 2. Here’s the ad copy (bold emphasis mine):

Buy the new Heroic Edition of Guild Wars 2®, one of the most highly acclaimed MMOs of all time. Free DLC every two weeks, an ever expanding world, and never any subscription fees. Now for a limited time buy it at our lowest price ever and come see why Guild Wars 2® is “the new king of fantasy RPGs.” Offer ends 10/6.

No, that doesn’t sound like a sales pitch at all, does it?

/sarcasm

EDIT: For the sake of clarity, that sarcasm wasn’t directed at you, Hawkian. It’s more just an expression of my general feelings towards ANet at the moment. Apologies if it seemed like I was giving you an attitude.

(edited by minbariguy.7504)

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Posted by: Kaiyanwan.8521

Kaiyanwan.8521

Sounds like that tiny bit of content we got, that was promised as an update worth the amount of an expansion back in the days…

Free DLC, seriously?

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Posted by: Skan.5301

Skan.5301

Lol’d at free DLC. That’s a good one.

Also at “the new king of fantasy RPGs".

Amusing to say the least.

“Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.”
– Euripides

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Posted by: Amstel Steel.2058

Amstel Steel.2058

I have not played in awhile due to a mixed set of reasons. I did not stop playing because of the living story but, once I stopped caring about finishing my dailies and LS achievements it became a lot easier to not feel compelled to log in.

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Posted by: Treadstone.2564

Treadstone.2564

I’ve been seeing those banner ads too.

“Free DLC every two weeks!”

Technically true, I guess, but most games keep their DLC after it’s added to the game. Imagine if the Dragonborn DLC for Skyrim was only available for a month.

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Posted by: IvoryOwl.3275

IvoryOwl.3275

Lol!

I don’t know if throwing the argument of “Free DLC” is a wise thing to do, specially when so many companies nowadays separate some content from the original game just to sell it as a DLC from day one. I hate this milking strategy and how common it has become and I would love it not being mentioned anywhere near me, specially from a game that has nothing to do with it.

In GW2’s case, these are just updates and one of the selling points that they used back in the day: “A world that will constantly be updated with new things”. Maybe I’m getting the wrong tone but I don’t like getting it in my face that I’m getting a prize and should be grateful for it, when it truth it was something that was promised from the beginning.

Other than that… nothing more than a marketing campaign. Nothing to do with us as they’re just trying to sell their product and we all know that there’s bound to be an hyperbole ever so often.

(edited by IvoryOwl.3275)

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

(in fact I know they have, I talked to a dev in game recently and unless he was lying, they have numbers).

I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who said that…

You people don’t know the difference between annecdotal evidence and eye witness testimony.

I don’t know a guy who spoke to a dev. I spoke to a dev.

I know he was a dev, because he had the Anet icon by his name. I don’t have one of those and I can’t get one.

If someone told me he spoke to a dev and I reported what he said, that’s hearsay. If I spoke to a dev directly, I’d be considered a direct witness.

All you can do is call me a liar, which is fine. But I don’t know a guy who spoke to a dev. I spoke to one myself. Big difference.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

While the enticement theory you’re referencing is definitely in effect, it’s pretty misleading to call it a sales pitch. They already have your money, right?

By the way, guess what just popped up on my Facebook page? An advertisement for Guild Wars 2. Here’s the ad copy (bold emphasis mine):

Buy the new Heroic Edition of Guild Wars 2®, one of the most highly acclaimed MMOs of all time. Free DLC every two weeks, an ever expanding world, and never any subscription fees. Now for a limited time buy it at our lowest price ever and come see why Guild Wars 2® is “the new king of fantasy RPGs.” Offer ends 10/6.

No, that doesn’t sound like a sales pitch at all, does it?

/sarcasm

EDIT: For the sake of clarity, that sarcasm wasn’t directed at you, Hawkian. It’s more just an expression of my general feelings towards ANet at the moment. Apologies if it seemed like I was giving you an attitude.

Of course it’s a sales pitch. When does a company that’s selling a product not make a sales pitch? Why would you expect the marketing department of a company not to make a sales pitch.

Companies pitch their products in an attempt to get people to buy them. Is that somehow wrong?