Guild Wars 2

Mordremoth affects Sylvari PC’s?Mordremoth affects Sylvari PC’s?Mordremoth affects Sylvari PC’s?Mordremoth affects Sylvari PC’s?Mordremoth affects Sylvari PC’s?Mordremoth affects Sylvari PC’s?Mordremoth affects Sylvari PC’s?Mordremoth affects Sylvari PC’s?Mordremoth affects Sylvari PC’s?Mordremoth affects Sylvari PC’s?Mordremoth affects Sylvari PC’s?Mordremoth affects Sylvari PC’s?Mordremoth affects Sylvari PC’s?Mordremoth affects Sylvari PC’s?Mordremoth affects Sylvari PC’s?

THAT IS A SPOILER! Edit it, GEEZ!

They could add factions to the game, at least temporarily. For example, for a month, all Sylvari are enemies if they try to enter other racial cities. Not enemies to other players of course, they’ll just aggro certain NPCs.

What will probably happen though is… nothing. It’ll all be contained in a cinematic.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

It didn’t have wings though :S

If you look carefully, I think it can be seen long black feathers on its back. Maybe it was just me, or my own hype seeing/imagining that

The cinematic was delightful, the storyline was entertaining, but the final battle was less than enjoyable.

85% of the playable area was either red circle of dooms or explosive plants.
Said explosive plants knocked me into the red zones or a giant hand.
Combine that with the freaking hand that knocks you down.
That all made the last mission cheap and full of nothing but knockdowns/knockbacks for me.

Unless I was near perma swift and perma stability, the mission was cheap and not fun.
Plus those blasted shadows turn invincible and I could not kill them.
I might have found one way, but I couldn’t experiment.
This was mainly due to the constant requirements to keep moving and practically expect my character to get knocked flat on his metal rear.

I don’t know if I’ll play this mission on anything but my Guardian in the future.

I AM a Sylvari, dagit… I am NOT evil! hmph!

Of course that didn’t stop the scope of Silverwastes contemplating the extinction of my species…

(sobs)

How dare you!

Tormentor.2508:

FlamingFoxx.1305:

It didn’t have wings though :S

If you look carefully, I think it can be seen long black feathers on its back. Maybe it was just me, or my own hype seeing/imagining that

They don’t look at all like the Mursaat feathers to me. I guess time will tell though!

this finale was fantastic overall. thank you and grats anet for a job well done!

You know, it is entirely possible that some of the Sylvari we see in the cut scene aren’t Pact soldiers gone bad. There are other, not born of the Pale Tree, Sylvari out there. And without the protection of Ventari & the Tree, they will have had no resistance to Mordremoth.

Imbune.5497:

emikochan.8504:

IIvIIozzie.9250:

Nilkemia.8507:

Better option : Kill Faolain instead.

Agreed. I realize they are supposed to be lovers and Caithe cares about Faolain greatly but it’s obvious that is the only appropriate option for someone who has a shred of decency. The only excuse I could think of for her actually going through with the murder is if Caithe was certain that she would lose in a fight against Faolain

You’ve obviously never been in love.

The kitten kind of excuse is that?
‘Oh I’m sorry officer-I killed an innocent because I don’t want my friend to know a secret’
‘….You committed a crime’
‘….I know but my genitals were tingling in all the right places for this person’….seriously wtf kind of excuse is that.

You know the funniest thing-I guarantee if this was a hetero relationship and caithe was a) a man, people would (rightfully) say ‘kitten this guy’s a bloody idiot’ or if b) caithe maintained her sex as a woman, people would say ‘gw2 is misogynistic as it portraits women in love as being stupid’…but make it a kitten relationship and all of a sudden it’s a ‘powerful, deep story about love and hard decisions’. All humans are equals…but some humans are more equal than others amiright?

…I think my dinner’s about to come up.

And people are saying because the plot makes no kitten sense and people ask ‘well why didn’t x character do this’ indicates depth? That’s not bloody depth! That’s shoddy writing with a huge amount of illogical developments that insults the audience’s intelligence and people are pointing out said flaws. That’s like saying ‘hey, why didn’t Lockdown hunt down the autobots himself-why did he need the human-US in particular government to help….how did he go about setting up that agreement in the first place…the premise of this movie’s plot makes no sense’-then you go ‘well see because you can ask these questions the movie is a work of art! It has so many levels!’ No……transformers 4 just sucks the only depth the movie has is how deeply it sucks.

The ‘big’ reveal was the sylvari being dragon minions? Yeah that came about 2 years too late-everybody (with sense anyway….apparently the writers don’t think very highly of us) already knew that. This is yet another thing why this game’s world is just …well…insulting. From the first time I played the game and heard-I never played gw1 fyi-that the sylvari can’t be corrupted by zhaitan I thought ‘hmm…..well the ice, crystal and zombie (didn’t know their names at the time) corrupted dragon minions don’t seem to be able to cross-contaminate each other (i.e. in the story/world there’s never been a risen branded or icebrood risen or some wacky combination). Here we have a weird plant race that just popped up and can’t be corrupted…are you sure you’re not a dragon minion of some sort?’ Then later when I watched woodenpotatoes gw1 videos I’m like ‘yeah they’re totally dragon minions’…that was a new player two years ago. Which is why everytime I see a sylvari in the world and everyone treating them normally I think ‘wtf is this-you know nothing about this race. Nobody finds their immunity to zhaitan the least bit strange? Why are you military people following this sylvari! OMG somebody kitten-slap some sense into these people’

Not to mention-did anyone seriously not notice the copy-paste ‘the pact forward base is under attack and will be forced to retreat into the heart of the base where they’ll use some item to turn the tides’ thing from the personal story? Or how about the excessive ego stroking? ‘Well done boss’ ‘Boss you killed that dragon you’re awesome’ ‘Impressive’…..look I already know I’m awesome OK? I don’t need a game to tell me that. Then again people were complaining that the pixels didn’t tell them they were awesome so I can’t fault ANet for that decision….doesn’t mean I like it.

But if this is the sort of thing gamers praise these days….then in the words of tree-man ‘this won’t end well’. I wash my hands of this madness.

Great….the kitten filter will make it sound like I used some ‘homophobic’ (since we like name calling like children) slurr…w/e I don’t care anymore.

Soo…

Everyone in the real world acts “logically”, according to you? You must lead a very sheltered life.

Also, who said it was an excuse?

On the second complaint… you’re ranting because there was a good amount of foreshadowing that allowed people to work things out, if they analysed the clues? Note that NPCs in-game can’t check the forums or watch youtube, which is where you apparently found out about this theory.

Finally, since you’re leaving, can I have your stuff?

SunRain.8972:

Nothing will be the same for sylvaris in the lore as far as this goes.

This is what’s got me most excited. After Canach set loose the Karka on the consortium (for good reason, but with bad results), Scarlet ruined LA, what’s his name brought down the Zypherites… well let’s face it even if the majority is still under the protection of the Pale Tree (i.e. not corrupted…. I mean not uncorrupted by Mordy) then there would still be a lot of ill will towards them… especially given how they also destroyed the Pack fleet.

VitalSuit.1980:

All of our current Sylvari come straight from the Pale tree so Trahearne doing this makes no sense. On the other hand it’s possible it differs between everyone. Trahearne would be able to shrug it off more I suppose than others. Nightmare Court can probably be consumed much more easily.

That is if they aren’t already consumed…

Facepunch.5710:

I don’t think this is correct, if you watch the cinematic again, you’ll see that the Sylvari who are fighting Pact troops look to be Nightmare Court, and the one who puts a spear/stave through the one dude’s chest is Faolain. Sylvari that are still connected to the Dream will still be protected from Mordremoth’s influence, IMO.

But I got the feeling that the end cinematic was more of a trailer, demonstrating on a single events but a series of events (for example Faolain and Canach’s scenes seemed to be set in a different time and place than the Pack attack).

Novuake.2691:

THAT IS A SPOILER! Edit it, GEEZ!

Well firstly this is a question not a statement, and secondly this is something people have been asking since whats-his-face from episode 1 of season 2. So not that big of a spoiler though.

Eleri Tezhme.3048:

You know, it is entirely possible that some of the Sylvari we see in the cut scene aren’t Pact soldiers gone bad. There are other, not born of the Pale Tree, Sylvari out there. And without the protection of Ventari & the Tree, they will have had no resistance to Mordremoth.

Jip I’m expecting we’ll be either killing Mylack or helping him as a resistance fighter of sorts.

Oh poor little Sylvari. If it makes you feel better I’ll be sure to burn down the Pale Tree as painlessly as possible :P

Lore forum seems mostly dead, since its relevant here too, ill just let it be.

Original :
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lore/Spoilers-Lore-retcon-Wynn-Caithe-Riannoc/first#post4692840

poilers : If you have not played the Point of No Report, STOP READING!
Soooo is it just me or are we not getting the Asura murder of Sylvari retconned?
Seems more like Riannoc’s “first dead sylvari” is getting retconned since now Wynn seems to have died before Riannocs excursion.
I DO NOT like this lore retcon, especially since the Personal story (sylvari subpath) is basically just falling apart even more.
Can we get an official statement as to WHAT is going on with the whole Riannoc thing?

Added :
I can sort of dismiss the fact that SECONDBORN died before him as Caithe and the other firstborn could have kept it from the wider world and other sylvari to not incite panic.
But Wynn (a firstborn) dying, is very significant and can not possibly kept secret, keeping the details secret sure, but not the fact that shes dead.
So Riannoc could definitely not have been perceived by ANYONE, EVER to be the first dead sylvari and it upsets me that this is in the GAME as well as wiki even before release and will probably never be fixed.
Seriously a massive problem for my immersion.

They all dodged the red circles. That’s the first thing you learn in Tyrian elementary schools. Geez.

“Oh poor little Sylvari. If it makes you feel better I’ll be sure to burn down the Pale Tree as painlessly as possible :P " , this is why we can’t have nice things. The Pale Tree never shown any signs of being Mordy’s ally , hell she even was attacked by the dragon. Glint was freed , no reason to think the Pale Tree is otherwise. The only thing i can accuse the pale tree is stupidity. But people would still burn someone down based on some beliefs they haven’t event tested out.

tbh, i smell plothole.

Cosmin.8306:

tbh, i smell plothole.

You have a fine nose, friend. :P

just like it happens everyday in this messed up reality

or… an asura did it^^

i believe it’s called misplaced ignorance combined with fear and prejudice , not reality.

There’s also a huge difference between killing someone who asks you to kill them and killing someone who doesn’t. In my mind, there’s an element of releasing Wynne from her pain and fulfilling her Wylde Hunt in the process.

That wouldn’t have been the case with Faolin.

*attuning nose * -completed , executing command : *sniff, sniff * , result : more plotholes detected

WHAAHAHAHA lots of people arguing intensly over fictional characters of a game grabs popcorn
YOU people are my GW2 expansion :P XD

Man, it’s so obvious. The player character hides under the firebowl you summon the airstrike with. What else were you thinking? :[

Less snarky remark: Let’s chalk it up to the rool of cool, shall we? x)

That did bring me out of it a bit. Then I remembered that I routinely call down meteor showers on myself and my friends and we are all just fine.

All of those people who hate Trahearne are finally happy now.
Calling sylvari traitors and such hahah, like they had a say in the matter. They are basically slaves now. Common sense would say that we should help them and free them cause they helped, well, everyone in the past. But nooo, lets burn them now etc etc. Ignorant people all over the place, just like reality.

It will not affect the PC , he asked Batman for his armor. Probably made some copies of it and gave it to Treh and other relevant sylvari .

Caith, personal thoughts:

She understood the gravity of what Wyne told her and inside knew Wyne was also right about Faolin. She also anticipated what would happen to her race if the dragon would wake up (including the stigmatization as shown in the last trailer).

I think she took the egg to somehow use it in order to protect atleast part of the sylvari from the corruption of the dragon BEFORE it’s too late. That’s why she didn’t have time to explain, considering the dragon is like “99.99% awoken”.

The WAY of her actions is kinda “approved” to us by Divity’s Reach 1.0 which tell us in multiple dialogues “that’s just who she is” in essence….so despite her strange actions, she was always well intended.

I might have misunderstood that cinematic, but i thought the sylvari didn’t just go crazy, they have been attacked first by those soldiers who thought they are evil…? After all, if i recall correctly, Canach was shouting something like “We are not evil”, and the only sylvari in the cinematic who undoubtedly killed someone was Faolain – who is evil anyway.
But maybe i just didn’t get it. After all, i was really tired when i did this episode. (Maybe that’s also the reason i didn’t really like the whole thing too)

It also crossed my mind when I watched Wynne die, like wait, is Riannoc still alive or dead here? He has to be alive in this memory, does that mean Wynne actually didn’t die? Caithe maybe put her to sleep or something.

But then she said that the Pale Tree felt Wynne’s death and such. And that the memory of it entered the Dream! Doesn’t that some newborn sylvari will wake up with that memory at some point? How come no one has yet?

They’ve already discussed this at lenght. Riannoc still died first.

Iason Evan.3806:

So you are saying she would kill Wynne instead of rescuing her from being tortured in front of her by her own lover, but the others she would save? That logic isn’t all that sound at all.

Caithe isn’t “good”, she’s very practical but also inexperienced despite all the years. As we have seen. I think Logan actually comments in that direction, too.
She knew she had to prevent Faolain from learning about the Sylvari origin, and Wynne begged her to kill her. And she had very little time. And a dagger. Done.

Dirame.8521:

They’ve already discussed this at lenght. Riannoc still died first.

Source?

TBH I can not see the timeline fitting.

Friendly fire doesn’t exist. Your PC has been bombarded with airstrikes in the Silverwastes since day 1, and never died, why should it be any different in a story instance? But if that doesn’t make you feel better, most of the NPCs had retreated into the armory, which wasn’t hit by the air strike.

Still there are plenty plotholes in this chapter , the order in which the sylavi died is the smallest one imo .

Caithe is more than willing to shoot the dog when the chips are down. The reason she’s a “good person” and on the protagonist’s side is because she feels it’s necessary. That’s entirely evident by the first sylvari personal story chapter where she’s completely okay with just killing off some star-crossed lovers who turned Nightmare Court without a second thought.

(To make it more conflicted, she can’t quite bring herself to go hunt down Faolain and do the same.)

Sad part, I’m pretty sure Faolain now knows so that sacrifice so long ago? That dark secret she carries around and gnaws at her? Totally pointless. Faolain either knows or is going to find out anyway soon enough.

Six Gods, you thought Logan had it rough with his decision of friends or duty . . .

Only the sylvari that got close to Mordy got corrupted. Canach never did so he said “We are not the monsters”, he is still fighting for his freedom.

And all the corrupted sylvari had red eyes (as far as I could see). Faolain didn’t. Which means Mordy didn’t corrupt the Nightmare Court. He allowed them to keep their free will as long as they do what they do in his name now.

I laughed so hard when CureForLiving.5360 said “what’s his name”, that is so true. I remember names good so I remembered his but only barely. For a first corrupted sylvari we see (not counting Scarlet), he was so unimportant.

And about the ill will toward the sylvari, it already started after season 1. When you entered the ruins of Lions Arch as a sylvari player, and go to the board where the names of the dead/missing are, and talk to a few NPCs there they pretty much tell you to kitten off or they will kill you. Stuff like “My father died cause of your race! I kittening hate you!”.

Cosmin.8306:

“Oh poor little Sylvari. If it makes you feel better I’ll be sure to burn down the Pale Tree as painlessly as possible :P " , this is why we can’t have nice things. The Pale Tree never shown any signs of being Mordy’s ally , hell she even was attacked by the dragon. Glint was freed , no reason to think the Pale Tree is otherwise. The only thing i can accuse the pale tree is stupidity. But people would still burn someone down based on some beliefs they haven’t event tested out.

It’s silly to say that the Pale Tree can be an ally of Mordremoth. She is his creation and can only be a servant if she falls under his sway. I don’t think the Shadow of the Dragon attacked her to destroy her, but to weaken her to the dragon’s influence.

I don’t think the Tree can be taken by Mordremoth unless he exerts huge and close influence on it personally, but the individual sylvari are a totally different thing. Let’s not forget that in the cinematic almost all sylvari in the Pact fleet were instantly taken by Mordremoth and they started attacking their fellow Pact members of other races.

No, the Pale Tree should not be burned down, but all sylvari should keep as away as possible from Mordremoth to avoid being taken, and let the other races handle him. Once Mordremoth is dead, the sylvari will be finally free of him and can be fully trusted again. Until then, however, they should back away since the risk is too great for them being taken.

Those are the new fashion wings. The old black feather ones are so 250 years ago.

I’ve never seen a dragon champion being more influenced by proximity tequatal seemed to be ok with it ,plus if you are a dragon and you make a servent and you have the power to bind his/her will wouldn’t you do it from the start ? To be honest the whole " pale tree is a dragon champion " feels so forced by a-net. The point of Plotholes should be the name of the chapter.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Still no idea where in The Mists he is, or what he’s been doing, but apparently he’ll be able to annihilate Mordrem when we next see him.

Doesn’t that require like 500k condition damage to kill a husk in a single bleed tick? Even Necros will be scared of that.

Hehe, I was very happy to see him in the clip at the end, even though he seems to be on a rampage for salad u.u

I also want to know what he has been up to, and also why are the npc characters not concerned about him? Rox mentioned him but that was it (I think).

Hopefully we will learn more soon about his adventurers in the mists.

Jaymee.1560:

I AM a Sylvari, dagit… I am NOT evil! hmph!

Of course that didn’t stop the scope of Silverwastes contemplating the extinction of my species…

(sobs)

How dare you!

-hugs- I am not a salad but I will stand up for you my leafy friend and all the good Sylvari of the grove!

Those Nightmare court need to go tho…. -sharpens blade-

Good on paper, bad in execution.

it seemed to be going for The Hero saves the day with the signal fire, calling down air support which has way better accuracy then any american bombing run

I liked the atmosphere, but the ending was kinda , meh.
At least have us take shelter. I mean, the base aftwerwards seems to be very much in one piece.

I would have prefered the cavalery rideing in on these airships giving support fire, instead of: “And the Airship comes in and saves the day”.

Rox only said that she goes to his office or somewhere to ask if there are any word, occasionally. But that’s it from what I could find.

Plot twist, SAB comes back, we have to rescue princess Rytlock from the Lord Vanquish

I also thought it was a possibility that Caithe didn’t kill her. Maybe made her heart stop with her dagger poison or something and revived her when Faolain left. But then she said that the Pale Tree felt Wynne die so yeah…

Urosh Uchiha.9732:

Those are the new fashion wings. The old black feather ones are so 250 years ago.

:P If they are Mursaat then I hope this is the explanation we get in game.

Cosmin.8306:

I’ve never seen a dragon champion being more influenced by proximity tequatal seemed to be ok with it ,plus if you are a dragon and you make a servent and you have the power to bind his/her will wouldn’t you do it from the start ? To be honest the whole " pale tree is a dragon champion " feels so forced by a-net. The point of Plotholes should be the name of the chapter.

Tequatl was never free from Zhaitan, so him being far did not matter, their bond was never severed.

If you want a better example – Glint. She broke free of Krallkatorrik’s influence and when he woke up he did not bring her immediately back under his influence, but instead went straight for her to kill her in the desert; this can only be because he could not do it from afar since Glint also had power to resist him. I would assume that he could have taken her back if he exerted enough influence over her, but this would have to be close by and I guess he was enraged at this betrayal. Or maybe he could not bring her back under his influence since Glint was old and powerful herself (far older and presumably more powerful than the Pale Tree, who is very young).

The Tree is weakened and reeling now because her identity from birth was given by Ventari and his tablet, so she has one of her own, rather than that of a dragon champion. Now the 2 sides, dragon servant/independent entity, are fighting for control, and so she is weakened. If Mordremoth could exert close, sustained, influence on her, then the scales would tip in his favor and she would be taken.

It’s all speculation, of course, but it seems sound to me.

The way I see it is this.

Even if Caithe could have taken Wynne out of there the very nature of that character meant that eventually she would be in a similar situation with Faolain pursuing her relentlessly for the secret.

The fact that she was caught once meant that she could be caught again and knowing her own weaker nature she decided to pass on the secret to someone stronger with the capacity to guard it as well as defend herself if needed.

This is I believe why Wynne asks for Caithe to kill her instead of helping her escape. She simply didn’t want to prolong the inevitable and just pass the burden on to someone she felt could carry it better.

As to why Caithe doesn’t kill Faolain – I think that part is pretty easy – they were in love and Faolain had not fallen to nightmare yet so I think a part of Caithe felt that she could be redeemed somehow or that at least she wouldn’t keep going down the path she had started on.

The real question ( and the one I fear will be left unanswered) is why did the Pale Tree reveal this truth to Wynne and no one else?
What was so special about her or the circumstances that she would be trusted with such a critical piece of information given the fact that during the short time she is presented to us she doesn’t appear particularly competent at anything really.

naiasonod.9265:

Someone has neither been in love not has any clue what devotion feels like.

Indeed ans that person is you, good naiasonod. You have no understanding that some individuals perceive love and devotions differently than you and gnawing on Imbune’s opinions while comparing to society’s mediocre standards is pretty low.

My opinion is that the finale was uninspired. Some revelations were conjured on the spot, made no sense, contradicted themselves with existing lore and/or came too little, too late. Perhaps this is a marketing ploy for the further expansion? Most probably. For me, the entire season 2 was a downward spiral of declining quality with little to no redemption along the way.

It sounds like plothole and plot convenience to me . Rules applying in some cases but not in others. I would have liked it more if the Pale tree (or trees) was Tyria balancing force for the dragons , would have explained the vision in omadd’s machine (why would the eternal alchemy care about one dragon champion? ) and the fact that sylvari were incorruptible by zhaitan . Now it’s the boring, plain ,clicheed , mind control villainization. Plus it kind of takes the free will out of equation when it comes to nightmare court "it’s just how they were supposed to work, not their fault they turned sadistic and evil ", which cheapens them as a faction imo .

Still i hope they don’t pull a “Divergent” type of breaking mind control with the power of love, that would be, ugh…

Gabby.3205:

Arewn.2368:

It would have made much more sense if the airstrike was used to cut-off/eliminate the mordrem reinforcements (those that had not yet entered the base), and then our job would have been to clean up the remaining mordrem in the base, then declare victory.

Not only would there be no senseless “oh look, we survived the bombardment we target at our own troops”, but it also would have made Trahearn thanking us feel a lot more satisfying.
“Thanks, you did a grunt’s job and carried that torch! you saved the day!” doesn’t feel like a very good reason for all the appreciation and credit we received for the victory.

Trahearne literally thanks the player for every little thing. ALL THE TIME.
So many of his dialogues have at least one “Thank you”. “Thanks to you” or “We/I couldn’t have done it without you” that I kinda expect him to do that, now.

Likely due to all the kittening people did about how they’re not the center of attention through the Personal Story.

I get tired of hearing all that stuff.