Guild Wars 2

Kinto.9485:

Looked at this thread yesterday, and set out on a personal quest this morning: Let me try and prove that Ascalon Catacombs Explorable Mode is doable without wipes when people are working together. So, after consulting with some guild mates, we strategized and theory crafted ways to make an ultimate teamwork composition with guildies who volunteered to do Explorable Mode with me.

Lets break this down.
Me a Warrior
A Thief
A Mesmer
A Gaurdian
A Elementalist

We looked at our vastly different profession composition and looked for which weapons for each of us could either support the party, debuff the enemies or even both! We then realized, “Hey, why not throw combo fields into this!? Lets get all hardcore with combo fields!”. We even took it a step further. “Lets trait ourselves to be more supporty!” We all payed no more then 3 silver 50 copper to respect into more supporty traits.

At the end of all this character building, we ended up with:
A supporty Warrior
A supporty Thief
A supporty Mesmer
A supporty Gaurdian
A supporty Elementalist

Dear god. We flew through Catacombs. In fact, each successive run got even faster. So here is how we did it.

Warrior: Mace/Shield &Hammer for swap
Thief: Dagger/Pistol or Sword/Pistol
Mesmer: Staff
Guardian: Hammer
Elementalist: Staff

Warrior, Guardian AND Thief stay front lines. The Thief will constantly use the offhand pistol 5 skill to apply a smoke field in between him/her and the enemy. Now the trick is, to get your Warrior and Guardian into that smokefield and have the warrior spam 1 while the Guardian goes apepoop. Each hit that anyone does to any enemies WHILE in the smokefield will apply blind. Now think for a second: If 3 people are constantly hitting the same enemy with each hit applying blind, how does that enemy hit you? Now, for the off chance that the enemy IS able to hit you, that is what that Warrior applying weakness is there for. Regen Banners is a plus!

Elementalist in Water Attunement: COMBO FIELDS EVERYWHERE!!! No seriously, we were regenerating like crazy!

Mesmer was awesome at applying conditions to our foes while granting boons to our party! We were able to give ourselves 25 stacks of might + the other boons when he copies over his boons to us. His Wall of Reflection was amazing for deflecting the Lieutenants Daggerstorm ability.

Okay, I meant to only type a bit, but this is turning into a full on novel. So instead I’m going to post a recording of one of our runs so you guys can see =].
————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
TL:DR: AC Explorable Mode is doable without wipes. Here is video proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_zRO2FfSL4
About a 45 min run through the whole thing over 3 parts.

Seems like a waste of my time if you need perfect group, perfect spec, lvl 80, and voip to do a low level dungeon that drops crappy loot. I mean, Burning Crusade had some of the hardest hard mode dungeons I can remember when that expansion pack was released, but you were still able to beat them without the perfect group combination.

Also, I want you to show me a video of you doing the burrowers one where you have to defend the two ghost essences. Impossible.

I’m going to pass on this dungeon because from what I’ve been told the lvl 80 ones are faceroll easier and give better rewards.

It’s not really the dungeon loot you should be after, but the tokens =].

ComeAndSee.1356:

Seems like a waste of my time if you need perfect group, perfect spec, lvl 80, and voip to do a low level dungeon that drops crappy loot.

I’m going to pass on this dungeon because from what I’ve been told the lvl 80 ones are faceroll easier and give better rewards.

That’s a shame — as AC is quite fun, and very do-able without much wiping. Rewards and rewards… you know, it’s random. I’ve done AC a couple of times now and gotten some nice rare weapons, and other times with not much. Such is RNG, and so it should be. If you’re giving it a pass, you’re giving up the chance to challenge yourself and strive to work better with your fellow players.

Every instanced dungeon I’ve ran has been an amazing and challenging experience, save AC. The first dungeon at level 30 is the only exception. It was completely imbalanced. SO far, the only dg that I’ve experienced that was equally imbalanced was the explorer mode of Arah, which is the most advanced dg in the game so far. Needless to say, it’s expected to be very difficult.

Cromx.3941:

The holy trinity was a part of strategy and planning, and utilizing team work. Its what the internet allows us to do in games now..work together, SUPPORT and help each other to overcome obstacles. The decision has been made that this is now fun, and it must be radically changed. Ok, but what has it been replaced with?

C-C-C-C-Combos.

If you haven’t figured out yet, combos are very powerful, and make a huge difference. If you did not yet know, they work best when people of differing proffesions work together for greater effects than either are normally capable of alone.

That is teamwork, yo. Strategy, skill, teamwork. And on a whole new level that a lot of people can’t even catch up yet. They will, or they’ll give up, but all the teamwork you could hope for is very much alive and thriving in this game.

Reeddog.9132:

Aih.6892:

I’m happy to hear that dedicated and experienced players who have a trained and regular group are finding some challenge and fun in the dungeons.
BUT :
You all must remember that GW2 is supposed to be for every kind of players, not only very good raid specialists. Meaning that everykind of people should be able to get some fun in game.
While the challenging dungeons are great for some, i think that the other ones, the casual players, which represent in fact the major part of the population of a popular game such as GW2, should have access to some adapted content too.
Yes maybe we are dumb, slow, losers or whatever you think, but we are customers as much as you.
So concretly, keep the dungeons as they are for the ones who like it and can dedicate so much time and skill to it, but add an easier mode for casual players, with shorter sessions adapted to family life, with of course less reward etc…
WHY NOT GIVING SOME CONTENT TO EVERY KIND OF PLAYERS ? After all the dungeons are already here, it shouldn’t be that hard to add some easier modes, and yes some harder modes too if there are enough people enjoying it.

This is the kind of thinking that is practiced with kids playing sports in this day. You came out and participated and WHAM!!! we have a trophy for you at the end of the season for you!!!

Hogwash! As a child when i played sports if you didn’t play on a winning team. NO TROPHY FOR YOU! I played on some teams that were winners, and i played on some teams where we lost. Having done this i learned to win, and to lose.

What you must remember is you are entitled to absolutely jack nothing in this life. I for one am tired of hearing people that describe themselves as casual( mainly touted to be the MAJORITY…… so what, i say.) moaning about how it is unfair that they are unable to complete some form of challenge in a MMO game. In this game it is the dungeons, they are hard. And they very well should be.

It is this state of mind that has lead to the nerfing, and just plain dumbing down of the majority of all games of this kind that i have played. I’ve run into content in MMO’s i was not able to complete, that vary in reasons, and i either decided to fix whatever it was making me unable to complete the challenge or i moved on deciding it was not something i could get done.

Achieving goals that are out of reach for some, or most, is a MOTIVATOR for some people, such as myself. As my opinion is worth as much as yours (and be aware i am aware my opinion means nothing to 99.99% of everyone else out there) i say no, you cant have a free pass because your special, and need lovin because you find no enjoyment in running the dungeons in GW2.

I like the fact that this part of the content of this game is tough. My family life allows me to play these dungeons and complete them. I own a business, have 2 sons, 1 irrational female partner and a whole passel of house plants that want my attention every day, day in and day out.

So again, i for one think, if you want to do the dungeons, try harder, assemble a group that is willing to try harder with you and do what it takes to get it done.

Hopefully folks spending their time on these forums detailing how it is not fair there is no easy mode for you to play goes in one dev ear and out the other. As many in this thread have said, the lewts are dookie at any rate, and are not the motivation to get in there and get it done in the first place. Its called a challenge!!! Try challenging yourself, you might dig it.

Also, what i am saying here is not addressed to you personally, rather it is addressed to the frame of mind that wants this type of content( your post is just a very good example). Be assured they will give it to you at one point or another, because if you are the type that will vote with your wallet you can guarantee this company wants your cash and will remedy your woes!

The whole fact that this game just rolled out and already people want EASIER CONTENT PLEASE!!!!! compels me to come here and say to the Dev’s i think it should not be so. At the least not right off.

You really are narrow minded you know that. Most people DON’T play games like these for a CHALLENGE. They play for the EXPERIENCE.

I probably need to repeat this for you because trolls like you keep regurgitating this crap from here to the Wow forums. “Most people DON’T play games like these for a CHALLENGE. They play for the EXPERIENCE.”

There did it sink in now?

Kinto.9485:

It’s not really the dungeon loot you should be after, but the tokens =].

Which is just going to be replaced by gear I can craft anyway.

The tokens don’t seem worth the effort. You get what? 20 a run? Weapons need 200? Gear like 60? I rather just finish leveling to 80 than put any more time in these overtuned dungeons.

And please, for people complaining about “drops” in dg’s, take a second to understand where the rewards come from. You complete a dg on story mode so you can advance to explorer mode. in explorer mode, you recieve tokens after each boss and at the end after the last boss. These tokens are unique to each dg and each dg has a vendor in Lion’s Arch where you spend these tokens on gear, weapons and more. Any loot that drops in a dg is best used for vendor coin or salvaging.

Hawken.7932:

ComeAndSee.1356:

Seems like a waste of my time if you need perfect group, perfect spec, lvl 80, and voip to do a low level dungeon that drops crappy loot.

I’m going to pass on this dungeon because from what I’ve been told the lvl 80 ones are faceroll easier and give better rewards.

That’s a shame — as AC is quite fun, and very do-able without much wiping. Rewards and rewards… you know, it’s random. I’ve done AC a couple of times now and gotten some nice rare weapons, and other times with not much. Such is RNG, and so it should be. If you’re giving it a pass, you’re giving up the chance to challenge yourself and strive to work better with your fellow players.

When I’m in an actual guild, level 80, and geared/specced out properly than I’ll hit these up again.

ComeAndSee.1356:

Kinto.9485:

It’s not really the dungeon loot you should be after, but the tokens =].

Which is just going to be replaced by gear I can craft anyway.

The tokens don’t seem worth the effort. You get what? 20 a run? Weapons need 200? Gear like 60? I rather just finish leveling to 80 than put any more time in these overtuned dungeons.

Not sure if you realized it yet, but you do NOT grind for gear in this game. You grind for skins. In fact, you can get the best gear( level 80 Exotics) in less then 10 hours after reaching max level. At least, I could if I wanted to spend the rest of my money.

NRChemicals.4029:

And please, for people complaining about “drops” in dg’s, take a second to understand where the rewards come from. You complete a dg on story mode so you can advance to explorer mode. in explorer mode, you recieve tokens after each boss and at the end after the last boss. These tokens are unique to each dg and each dg has a vendor in Lion’s Arch where you spend these tokens on gear, weapons and more. Any loot that drops in a dg is best used for vendor coin or salvaging.

Have you seen the cost of the items? The bosses we did manage to kill in EX mode only gave 5 each. The weapons alone are 200.

You have to GRIND these dungeons which is only feasible if you have the proper group comp.

Kinto.9485:

ComeAndSee.1356:

Kinto.9485:

It’s not really the dungeon loot you should be after, but the tokens =].

Which is just going to be replaced by gear I can craft anyway.

The tokens don’t seem worth the effort. You get what? 20 a run? Weapons need 200? Gear like 60? I rather just finish leveling to 80 than put any more time in these overtuned dungeons.

Not sure if you realized it yet, but you do NOT grind for gear in this game. You grind for skins. In fact, you can get the best gear( level 80 Exotics) in less then 10 hours after reaching max level. At least, I could if I wanted to spend the rest of my money.

When you do dungeons while you’re leveling you’re not doing them for skins, you’re doing them in order to acquire better gear and experience. I mean, you can buy gear from the relic vendors that are better. :/

Once you’re at lvl 80 than it’s about acquiring the proper gear and making yourself look unique.

I thought this game would of learned from Aion Online when you make the early dungeons too hard and it deters people too much from PvE in the long term. I mean, what’s going to happen eventually is people will start skipping all the trash by kamikazing and then having a stealther come in and res them after. It happened in Aion and Burning Crusade and I’m sure its going to happen again here.

Killing bosses in AC Explorer mode was like killing raid bosses. It takes 10-15 minutes of repetitively doing the same thing over and over because the bosses have so much health. My group didn’t fail at the end, but because we picked the impossible choice of options. (defend the stupid ghost artifacts)

ComeAndSee.1356:

Seems like a waste of my time if you need perfect group, perfect spec, lvl 80, and voip to do a low level dungeon that drops crappy loot. I mean, Burning Crusade had some of the hardest hard mode dungeons I can remember when that expansion pack was released, but you were still able to beat them without the perfect group combination.

Also, I want you to show me a video of you doing the burrowers one where you have to defend the two ghost essences. Impossible.

I’m going to pass on this dungeon because from what I’ve been told the lvl 80 ones are faceroll easier and give better rewards.

You mean, seems like a waste of time if you have to try? Oh noes, the build you use for solo questing doesn’t work the best for group play?? Oh the humanity!! Just /ragequit.

I’m sorry. I’m not trying to be rude for sake of being rude. I really just want to drive the point home. There are two versions of the dungeon!!! If explorable mode is too hard, or too inconvenient for you to bother respeccing, retraiting, or changing up a weapon or utility… then by all means go play in Story mode!!!!! You don’t HAVE to play the hardmode. And it rightly should be HARD. I’m glad people are faling at it, it’s something to be able to work on, and to improve on. You can get better by challenging yourself.

Foriegn concept? Challenging yourself? I know right.

Oh, and seriously… BC dungeons were never hard. There were maybe ever a handful of challenging encounters in wow, before they inevitably got nerfed, that were more than simple gear checks.

Hmm. Well it seems you don’t enjoy the dungeon because you don’t care about the cool dungeon skins. I can’t help you there =(. I’d honestly say you should just skip dungeons in this game then. I wouldn’t do them for experience or loot.

Edit: In reply to ComeAndSee

Kinto.9485:

Hmm. Well it seems you don’t enjoy the dungeon because you don’t care about the cool dungeon skins. I can’t help you there =(. I’d honestly say you should just skip dungeons in this game then. I wouldn’t do them for experience or loot.

Edit: In reply to ComeAndSee

If the dungeons are going to require as much skill and proper speccing / gearing than I’ll just do them at 80. By then I can join a guild, get VOIP, and breeze through them.

Pre-80 they aren’t worth it. Crap loots, overtuned, and you have to grind them to get the items you want.

Maybe AC is just a fluke, but I’ll check out the other ones if I have the patience.

The biggest thing I found, and I mean this was a wonderful little tid bit of knowledge:

COMBOS

Combo fields are the single most helpful thing in the game. Know them, learn to use them, know your party’s powers. Those things can either dish out of TON of damage, or HEAL.

Learn them well.

I find myself wishing for the trinity sometimes.
And I really hate when people say, well don’t build like a glass cannon etc.

The game was made so you could play as you want, but in relative terms, if you want to do dungeons, you are pretty much forced into going full survivability mode.

I play a guardian, and I play offensively, which means I have to be close to the action, with 2 dodge rolls and Aegis I can do alright, but once im out of Endurance, and my Aegis are on CD, all I can do is stand back and watch, or take out my staff and hit for low amounts, while trying to add some support (which is a joke since I don’t have gear nor the spec for it)

Yes there might be some skill involved, but it’s all a random factor in dungeons, and once you get hit, it hurts.

Kinto.9485:

Looked at this thread yesterday, and set out on a personal quest this morning: Let me try and prove that Ascalon Catacombs Explorable Mode is doable without wipes when people are working together. So, after consulting with some guild mates, we strategized and theory crafted ways to make an ultimate teamwork composition with guildies who volunteered to do Explorable Mode with me.

Lets break this down.
Me a Warrior
A Thief
A Mesmer
A Gaurdian
A Elementalist

We looked at our vastly different profession composition and looked for which weapons for each of us could either support the party, debuff the enemies or even both! We then realized, “Hey, why not throw combo fields into this!? Lets get all hardcore with combo fields!”. We even took it a step further. “Lets trait ourselves to be more supporty!” We all payed no more then 3 silver 50 copper to respect into more supporty traits.

At the end of all this character building, we ended up with:
A supporty Warrior
A supporty Thief
A supporty Mesmer
A supporty Gaurdian
A supporty Elementalist

Dear god. We flew through Catacombs. In fact, each successive run got even faster. So here is how we did it.

Warrior: Mace/Shield &Hammer for swap
Thief: Dagger/Pistol or Sword/Pistol
Mesmer: Staff
Guardian: Hammer
Elementalist: Staff

Warrior, Guardian AND Thief stay front lines. The Thief will constantly use the offhand pistol 5 skill to apply a smoke field in between him/her and the enemy. Now the trick is, to get your Warrior and Guardian into that smokefield and have the warrior spam 1 while the Guardian goes apepoop. Each hit that anyone does to any enemies WHILE in the smokefield will apply blind. Now think for a second: If 3 people are constantly hitting the same enemy with each hit applying blind, how does that enemy hit you? Now, for the off chance that the enemy IS able to hit you, that is what that Warrior applying weakness is there for. Regen Banners is a plus!

Elementalist in Water Attunement: COMBO FIELDS EVERYWHERE!!! No seriously, we were regenerating like crazy!

Mesmer was awesome at applying conditions to our foes while granting boons to our party! We were able to give ourselves 25 stacks of might + the other boons when he copies over his boons to us. His Wall of Reflection was amazing for deflecting the Lieutenants Daggerstorm ability.

Okay, I meant to only type a bit, but this is turning into a full on novel. So instead I’m going to post a recording of one of our runs so you guys can see =].
————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
TL:DR: AC Explorable Mode is doable without wipes. Here is video proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_zRO2FfSL4
About a 45 min run through the whole thing over 3 parts.

How many tears we got today: http://i.imgur.com/gR9lT.jpg

THREAD OVER

People go into dungeons with a full glass-cannon build and then complains when they get one-shotted. I find that hilarious.

Survival > Damage. It’s as simple as that. Don’t go full out on offensive stats, utility and traits. You need to bring a healthy mix of offense, defense and utility. Bringing useful boons and conditions that benefits your entire group instead of abilities that makes you do a bit more personal damage.

And then it’s a matter of learning the different abilities and animations of the enemies. You will get destroyed at first, but when you get more experience and learn the fights you will come out as a winner.

Me and two friends are clearing explorable mode with just the three of us, and we are doing it very successfully, for fun, laughs and the challange.

We finished all explore mode in Caudeuce’s (sp) Manor tonight…

I do have to say the dungeons are very hard.. but also pretty darn enjoyable. We went through many wipes and yes… repair costs.

The only complaint I do have is the rewards. For each explore story (taking 2-3 hours each) we would receive like 10 silver. The last wing I pretty much got general loot. So, other than the fact of us wanting to do it to see it..it is a tough case to go back unless we have to farm for tokens.

My only issues with dungeons are:

Every mob AOEs for crazy tons of damage with very little differentiation between attacks.

Attack animations are fast and nearly impossible to tell what’s going on when.

traps are forever with no disables or turn offs (so if there’s a trapped hallway that’s nearly wiping your party, it’ll be there, always nearly wiping your party, even after a really really tough boss stomps your face.

Some mobs require tactics that require a taunt feature. But so far, there’s no real taunt feature so how agro is divided out, I don’t know. No one in my guild has figured out how to separate the 2 bosses from touching each other… they just “do” for a while… (I think we just kept respawning in untill they were dead).

poor boss placement. Gold regenerating (trap immune) troll at the top of a very long spiked hallway. So after everyone is nearly 1/2 dead or is dead from the shear number of traps and the fast respawns far exceeding the dodge rolls. We get rofle-stomped regardless.

No differentiating “feel” between normal mobs and bosses. It’s all aoe chaos so it all becomes the same. Every mob is a wipe, which makes every mob a wipe. Greys everything out so far. Blending it together.

Some things that I enjoy in dungeons:

Very nice visuals. Overall map design is pretty to look at and interesting to explore.

Cinema scenes add story and depth to “plot” while dungeonearing.

The “length” from point A to point B is juuust about right. Not too small a map, not too daunting a run.

But yeah, classes need a lot of balance. Heals need bolstering, cc’s need lengthening, hp needs adjusting. Every mob being a boss mob is a little much. A challenge is good…unplayable areas are not. (My last group was a bunch of 80’s, and even with their gear we couldn’t really get through an area where we had to “protect 2 points” with no way to get agro, mobs just ignored us, spawned next to the points and took them out. We had no effect on gaining attention.)

Kinto.9485:

Looked at this thread yesterday, and set out on a personal quest this morning: Let me try and prove that Ascalon Catacombs Explorable Mode is doable without wipes when people are working together. So, after consulting with some guild mates, we strategized and theory crafted ways to make an ultimate teamwork composition with guildies who volunteered to do Explorable Mode with me.

Lets break this down.
Me a Warrior
A Thief
A Mesmer
A Gaurdian
A Elementalist

We looked at our vastly different profession composition and looked for which weapons for each of us could either support the party, debuff the enemies or even both! We then realized, “Hey, why not throw combo fields into this!? Lets get all hardcore with combo fields!”. We even took it a step further. “Lets trait ourselves to be more supporty!” We all payed no more then 3 silver 50 copper to respect into more supporty traits.

At the end of all this character building, we ended up with:
A supporty Warrior
A supporty Thief
A supporty Mesmer
A supporty Gaurdian
A supporty Elementalist

Dear god. We flew through Catacombs. In fact, each successive run got even faster. So here is how we did it.

Warrior: Mace/Shield &Hammer for swap
Thief: Dagger/Pistol or Sword/Pistol
Mesmer: Staff
Guardian: Hammer
Elementalist: Staff

Warrior, Guardian AND Thief stay front lines. The Thief will constantly use the offhand pistol 5 skill to apply a smoke field in between him/her and the enemy. Now the trick is, to get your Warrior and Guardian into that smokefield and have the warrior spam 1 while the Guardian goes apepoop. Each hit that anyone does to any enemies WHILE in the smokefield will apply blind. Now think for a second: If 3 people are constantly hitting the same enemy with each hit applying blind, how does that enemy hit you? Now, for the off chance that the enemy IS able to hit you, that is what that Warrior applying weakness is there for. Regen Banners is a plus!

Elementalist in Water Attunement: COMBO FIELDS EVERYWHERE!!! No seriously, we were regenerating like crazy!

Mesmer was awesome at applying conditions to our foes while granting boons to our party! We were able to give ourselves 25 stacks of might + the other boons when he copies over his boons to us. His Wall of Reflection was amazing for deflecting the Lieutenants Daggerstorm ability.

Okay, I meant to only type a bit, but this is turning into a full on novel. So instead I’m going to post a recording of one of our runs so you guys can see =].
————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
TL:DR: AC Explorable Mode is doable without wipes. Here is video proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_zRO2FfSL4
About a 45 min run through the whole thing over 3 parts.

How many tears we got today: http://i.imgur.com/gR9lT.jpg

Perfect. That’s exactly what people need to understand. This game isn’t meant for the classic group of tank/heal/dps. However, since that group build has always worked in every other mmo, I feel like it’s ingrained into players, and is their default way of dealing with dungeons. I’m constantly trying to remind my group of friends dps doesn’t really matter, and to drop certain individual skills they have (like signets giving them more power, etc) and to adopt skills that are geared towards providing CC and support for other players (although my advice is almost always blown off), and we end up wiping in dungeons over and over.

Over time I hope people understand that teamwork = success, and that roles aren’t as important as the person behind the character. But until then, the classic WoW mentality will be the default mind set.

I’ve tried AC explorable mode again today, and still wiped many times without clearing the dungeons. And this is what I concluded from the run, CC is an absolute must for group, as well as AOE condition removal. Support abilities are also crucial to the team dynamics. I am kinda seeing a new kinda trinity where there must be damage dealers, supports, and CC for the run to be successful. For the spider queen run for example, I can’t count the number of times my shout help to counter the poison due to my traits. The warrior in my PUG also keeps alternating CC together with me when fighting the troll boss. I keep knocking the troll back if he comes after me, while the warrior chain cripples him, knocked him down and knocked him back. His shout also keeps healing me, and I always save virtue of courage/Retreat when we cant get out of aoe jump skill in time. The hammer ward skills for guardian is also amazing as a CC, it was the first time I really appreciate hammer as a weapon because I always thought the DPS on hammers are just so bad.

Anyway, with the warrior and I chain CCing, the first 2 bosses were very doable. But we still wipe on the liutenant non-stop. We tried to prioritize killing the elementalist and the rangers first but we always die before we can do anything.

Anyone got a specific strategy on how to go against this boss?

Was too tired after the runs we did to reply, but for everyone that saw my post and agreed, thank you.

And thank YOU Arena Net for the amazing dungeon design in Ascalon Catacombs! I’m not being sarcastic here either. As we were running it, we started realizing the amount of teamwork that went into these dungeons. I’ll explain in case anyone wants to know.

So as I said before, the Thief will be in the front lines using his offhand 5 ability on pistol to provide a blinding smokefield that applies blinds to anything hit from a character within the smokefield. Now, for those of you who aren’t familiar with Thieves, Black Powder costs 6 initiative per cast. I believe, if I’m not mistaken, Thieves can get a maximum of 15 initiative. So from a quick first look, our thief should only be able to use Black Powder about 3 – 4 times in a consistent row without running out due to initiative regeneration.

So how did we fix that problem? Again, teamwork in this game is amazing! Our Thief grabbed the trait Infusion of Shadow. If you didn’t read that, with this trait, Thieves will instantly regenerate 2 initiative every time they go stealth. Black Powder itself IS a smokefield. Smokefield + Blast Finisher = Area Stealth. Our Guardian is rolling with a hammer. Skill #2 on hammer is Mighty Blow(hurhur). For myself, I had my hammer burst skill Earthshaker and the blast finishers for both summoning my banners AND picking them up to press 5 again. Our Thief was not having problems keeping Black Powder up 100% of the time. It was amazing!

This is only ONE example of the amazing teamwork that went on in this dungeon. I mean hell, everyone in our group was doing an equal share of work. Our Mesmer would pop Feedback whenever Lt. Kholer was about to megadaggerstorm so we can just sit and lawl as he spins for no reason.

Now, I’m not saying all this to say that THIS is the only way to complete Ascalon Catacombs. I’m absolutely, positively sure that there are MANNYYYYY other ways to do it with different profession combos and builds. This is just how my group of friends and I figured out a nice way to run the dungeon smoothly. Now then, I’ll probably be back on this thread later tonight after we get out sexy Ascalonian Weapons so you guys can see them =D. Going for Greatword!!
————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
TL:DR: Teamwork.

Kaiyang.4209:

I’ve tried AC explorable mode again today, and still wiped many times without clearing the dungeons. And this is what I concluded from the run, CC is an absolute must for group, as well as AOE condition removal. Support abilities are also crucial to the team dynamics. I am kinda seeing a new kinda trinity where there must be damage dealers, supports, and CC for the run to be successful. For the spider queen run for example, I can’t count the number of times my shout help to counter the poison due to my traits. The warrior in my PUG also keeps alternating CC together with me when fighting the troll boss. I keep knocking the troll back if he comes after me, while the warrior chain cripples him, knocked him down and knocked him back. His shout also keeps healing me, and I always save virtue of courage/Retreat when we cant get out of aoe jump skill in time. The hammer ward skills for guardian is also amazing as a CC, it was the first time I really appreciate hammer as a weapon because I always thought the DPS on hammers are just so bad.

Anyway, with the warrior and I chain CCing, the first 2 bosses were very doable. But we still wipe on the liutenant non-stop. We tried to prioritize killing the elementalist and the rangers first but we always die before we can do anything.

Anyone got a specific strategy on how to go against this boss?

Our part 2 of this run is basically how we started doing it. What is your team composition? You guys would probably have to do it differently then us depending on what professions you have.

Its interesting to see a group of GW1 regulars run on through a dungeon . Its like night and day when compared to grouping with those stand-still WoW regulars. GW2 dungeons emphasize on individual skill. That means you’re responsible for your own health, dps, and tanking contributions. Kite, dodge, heal, dps, buff, and cc. There’s also a ridiculous amount of character build combos. The most popular build for a profession may not be the right build for a specific dungeon. If you’re finding it difficult to stay on your feet, try something new….experiment with everything.

I really do think a lot of people need to take to heart the advice being given from the folks who have cleared these dungeons in all modes, and do so every day. There is so much sound advice spread throughout this thread it is ludicris that people are still crying to have them “tuned down” what does that even mean?

Here’s an example, my husband who ran all 3 of the explorer paths in AC + did the story mode just before, cleared the ENTIRE thing in about an hour (maybe a little longer) while the group of guildies I was with struggled with the first boss in exploere and didnt have a chance against the trash. There is a HUGE difference with what is going on; my husband is playing with people who he has known and played with forever, while I am with 1 friend and 3 new people I never before met. He has synergy with his group, My group has none. LOL

I am seriously tired with everyone demanding dungeons (the pve END GAME for this game) be tuned to be facerolled by pug groups.

Kaiyang.4209:

I’ve tried AC explorable mode again today, and still wiped many times without clearing the dungeons. And this is what I concluded from the run, CC is an absolute must for group, as well as AOE condition removal. Support abilities are also crucial to the team dynamics. I am kinda seeing a new kinda trinity where there must be damage dealers, supports, and CC for the run to be successful. For the spider queen run for example, I can’t count the number of times my shout help to counter the poison due to my traits. The warrior in my PUG also keeps alternating CC together with me when fighting the troll boss. I keep knocking the troll back if he comes after me, while the warrior chain cripples him, knocked him down and knocked him back. His shout also keeps healing me, and I always save virtue of courage/Retreat when we cant get out of aoe jump skill in time. The hammer ward skills for guardian is also amazing as a CC, it was the first time I really appreciate hammer as a weapon because I always thought the DPS on hammers are just so bad.

Anyway, with the warrior and I chain CCing, the first 2 bosses were very doable. But we still wipe on the liutenant non-stop. We tried to prioritize killing the elementalist and the rangers first but we always die before we can do anything.

Anyone got a specific strategy on how to go against this boss?

It is possible to pull Kholer down the stairs rather than fight him up with the other two but it is not required. It’s important to focus any ranger first, then any elementalist. For Kholer himself stacking enough CC to get through all those stacks of defiance is kinda tough because he does spam his scorpion wire which is essentially an instant kill. Instead swap up your skills so that everyone is carrying stability, reflects, or if those are not possible a break stun. By using stability or reflect Kholer can’t pull you at all making him a simple boss, the break stuns require a bit more timing to use but will still work. Other than that it’s a matter of kiting him and quickly reviving anyone who is downed.

Edit: Forgot to mention it is also possible to block and dodge the scorpion wire, but I don’t recommend relying on dodge as the person kiting it may not have enough endurance and it can be hard to time.

Since dungeon rewards are meaningless apart from the looks they better be hard, because if they aren’t challenging what would be the point of doing them at all.

This is a game and as such it’s meant to be fun and for me beating a tough challenge that requires player skill and organization is much more fun that beating a game that only needs the right amount of stats and a bit of common sense.

Also, if you see a Boulder on the ground (interactive item), 90% of the time it’s there for a reason! hinthint

I feel the dungeons are just right at the moment. They’re meant to be hard and require coordination. While I did see one person’s post saying there wasn’t enough utility to keep someone alive if a mob is focusing them, you also need to communicate that with your group and do your best to stay alive if your group is bursting down another mob in the pack. There’s maybe one complaint I’ve had so far being level 71 and running both explorer and story for each of the dungeons up to my bracket. AC Explorer, except the second path, requires a LOT of communication and is not really made for non-voice communication or PUGs.

Some of the helpful tips I can part with. which are based on my own experiences as a 2 foot tall slab of beef are:

1) Dodge/roll often, especially when you find yourself stuck in a ranged AoE. Always be prepared to doubletap that WSAD.

2) There isn’t much ability to single pull/split pull in this game with the mobs that group together, so coordinate with your team which you will burst down. If you don’t have a lot of toughness and are getting 2 shotted or 3 shotted by silver mobs and you get focused, run it around or line-of-sight it if possible while your team burns the others down.

3) #1 first. While it sounds a bit greedy, this means that you look out for yourself first. If you’re gonna die going back to rez that guy that died in the spike trap or flame spit, tell him/her to run back and try again. If you’re being focused down by more than one monster and you’re going down too quickly, dodge away and start kiting and using utility abilities to save yourself.

4) Don’t lose focus. Tunnel-visioning to burn down a mob while another wipes the floor with your team mates in the back that didn’t pay attention to any of the above tips is no good. I have yet to really see if these mobs have an agro-table, but I did find that popping a mob once or twice, if no one is focusing them, tends to make them pretty angry with you instead of that squishy necromancer in the back.

5) Legendary mobs(the purple ones) are known for using devastating abilities that can one shot people. Learn the mechanics if you can. If you see that ghostly king raise his sword and it looks like he’s charging his laser, then it might be a good idea to not go near him.

These are some pretty basic common sense things, but the days of face-rolling dungeons are pretty much over. Even when I go in AC, with my gear and abilities, I still get stomped if I make a mistake by that Cave Troll that likes to pop out of the wall. If you can minimize your mistakes and focus on a slow-and-steady approach, you’re on the road to a much higher success chance at completing.

I don’t want to talk about AC because that dungeon was really easy compared to Sorrow’s Embrace. The third boss, Kudu and his golems was an extreme example of a challenge, especially the fire golem. It was an impossible fight, even though we completed the dungeon in story mode we were shocked at the difficulty of the golem. Maybe the devs aren’t aware of this but the golem is impossible to defeat without getting killed at least 10 times, unless you spec in a certain way. To be honest I don’t want to change my spec every time I go into a specific dungeon. In Twilight Arbor another example can be taken in explore mode, loads and loads of poisons with no where to move and get poisoned to death, the Worm boss is too much too, 5 Worms spit poison in mass circles plus the poison blooms, it was fairly challenging but it seriously need a look into. Another thing in TA explore mode is the spiders if you choose to go up, I mean come on, give me 4 or 5 silver mobs but add with them 30 adds? it’s good to have a challenge, but not this crazy.

In short, I believe, even though I like a challenge in dungeons, that GW2 dungeons, some of them, require a really solid nerf. In the end people who repeat the dungeons will feel as if they did nothing, and the feeling of challenge will fade away.

I speak of this from experience, I was a daoc player and I used to go with friends and defeat bosses that require raids to kill with a group or less, I personally farmed a raid boss zone with just 3 chars I controlled myself. Discovering the right tactic can make you do wonders, but sadly not in GW2, where there’s this waypoint back there, if you die respawn and let someone kite the boss and not die.

Dungeons will become easier with time, but making people suffer for it, especially those who do not want this kind of challenge, or don’t have the right setup, is not a good thing.

Please do NOT nerf dungeons. Nothing is more fun then spending 3 hours working together to try to defeat an extremely hard encounter. If people want easy stuff just do the open world PvE quests (they are fun but really easy).

Make the dungeons as tough as you want under no circumstances weaken them in the slightest!!

Well, the dungeons are not a “required” part of the game. You can get equivalent gear from crafting if you are after gear.

Since they are Optional I am not sure how Arenanet is MAKING anyone suffer because they “don’t have the right set-up” or “who do not want this kind of challenge” If they don’t want the challenge they don’t have to be there. See how that works?

play it like you’d play an fps. your team is there to help you, but can’t fill in your shortcomings (ever notice there’s no spotter role in cod?)

you can also play it like pvp, same rules apply – you could lose any team member at any moment and therefore the remaining team must be able to do w/o her.

Although the challenge to the dungeons are what makes them fun some are just too much. Doing Sorrow’s Embrace story mode was just great with a group of guild members. That is untill we reached Kudu and his gollems. The first gollem went ok but the second one spams attacks like there is no tomorrow. Coupled with healing on removing conditions it was enough to make people ragequit.

We fought him for an hour, trying out different tactics and trying to avoid conditions as much as possible. Even with only one condition on him he can still heal a decent amount and coupled with the damage he does (1,6k hits on lvl 80’s with 80 gear and traits) it was impossible. Dont try to say learn to dodge please. We dodged and healed as much as we could but those cooldowns are way higher then that 1,6 k spam attack he uses twice every 10 seconds.

In the end after dying over a dozen times to it we decided to call it quits. After 2 of our party just quit angry after having spent over 50 silver on repairs. Dont nerf dungeons, but please check some of the more crazy bosses. I liked the idea of free dungeon repairs, because its the reason most of our members hate dungeons. The costs far outway the gains.

Sadly, after experiencing Ascalonian Catacombs… I deemed it is not worth the effort. It certainly did not encouraged me to play more dungeons and rewards are not even worth the try. I mean if you gonna make the dungeons with such unbalanced damage and skills ( Gravelings with Perma knockdowns.. Bosses which pull you close from ANYWHERE you are and one shot you before you can get up )

I got a wipefest for 2 hours ..then had to quit. The next day…in a miracle I was able to lead the group from the mistakes I made a day before and finish the Story mode with only 1 wipe ! I was proud of that run. Next I wanted to ‘Explore’ the dungeon , couldn’t be worse than the story right ? Wrong….

After dealing with mobs who happen to always have the kitten Poison attacks or arrows and dying 7-8 times , we are faced with gravelings who can knock you down PERMANANTLY… I mean you won’t be getting up until you are get ‘downed’ by the mobs. After dying even more to them… by another miracle we were able to kill them one by one , dying in-between. So that led us to the first boss in Foefire’s heart with 2 elite mobs. You would think you can kite the boss and kill the adds before that right ? Wrong again. The freaking boss will Pull you close and LITERALLY one shot you….. I mean where is the opportunity to escape or dodge ? He will pull you , knock you down at the same time …then do his spinning thing without you are able to roll out of the way… Before you say I am squishy or something, I am a Warrior with at least 6k HP and 700-800 Armor…. and the boss still one shot me with that skill.

So please adjust the dungeons so people won’t get scared off by them after 10 minutes they are in ..or the Dungeon experience of the game will have a bad reputation from the start. Hell I can even accept just removing thekittenPoison from the dungeon all together, without changing anythingelse. Poison is so annoying and somehow EVERY mob inside the dungeon have it. No regen, constant dots ,stuns , knockdowns… it is not a pleasant experience to play dungeons but it feels like a self-torture as it is right now.

I might sound like exaggerating now but all I can say, try the place yourself and then tell me if I am wrong. Even with the Miracle , 1 wipe , run of the Story…it took over 1-2 hours. And I saw my friends get 2 levels in PvP and getting better rewards from it than the time I spend in the dungeon and the rewards I got.

So, long rant short…either AC needs MANY adjustments to damage or elite’s skills. Or the dungeons NEEDS to have something to make all this Suffering worthwhile. Because as it is… I am quite inclined to skip ALL dungeons I see as if they carry a plague. And I LOVE dungeons in MMOs. I don’t want to miss out on them but I can’t bear the suffering and annoyance for 2 hours of wiping because of the unbalanced skills and numbers with soo little to gain in the end.

I also got mowed in my first dungeon run.

Now I’m running AC explorer and loving it.

What changed my game was actually learn to play, really. Had to learn how to dodge, how to run and most important, how to CC. Bind mobs and run being part of it.

Being an old wow raider, I was far to used to smashing my rotation almost as a chant while I kept minding other stuff like adds or position. This added a whole new “action” to my MMO genre.

I give you that: the first run is hell. Till everyone learn how to do their dodge/buff/debuff.

My piece of an advice: if someone wants a class to be fully specc’d into one role, it is usually a bad team.

Wowlock.8176:

Sadly, after experiencing Ascalonian Catacombs… I deemed it is not worth the effort. It certainly did not encouraged me to play more dungeons and rewards are not even worth the try. I mean if you gonna make the dungeons with such unbalanced damage and skills ( Gravelings with Perma knockdowns.. Bosses which pull you close from ANYWHERE you are and one shot you before you can get up )

I got a wipefest for 2 hours ..then had to quit. The next day…in a miracle I was able to lead the group from the mistakes I made a day before and finish the Story mode with only 1 wipe ! I was proud of that run. Next I wanted to ‘Explore’ the dungeon , couldn’t be worse than the story right ? Wrong….

After dealing with mobs who happen to always have the kitten Poison attacks or arrows and dying 7-8 times , we are faced with gravelings who can knock you down PERMANANTLY… I mean you won’t be getting up until you are get ‘downed’ by the mobs. After dying even more to them… by another miracle we were able to kill them one by one , dying in-between. So that led us to the first boss in Foefire’s heart with 2 elite mobs. You would think you can kite the boss and kill the adds before that right ? Wrong again. The freaking boss will Pull you close and LITERALLY one shot you….. I mean where is the opportunity to escape or dodge ? He will pull you , knock you down at the same time …then do his spinning thing without you are able to roll out of the way… Before you say I am squishy or something, I am a Warrior with at least 6k HP and 700-800 Armor…. and the boss still one shot me with that skill.

So please adjust the dungeons so people won’t get scared off by them after 10 minutes they are in ..or the Dungeon experience of the game will have a bad reputation from the start. Hell I can even accept just removing thekittenPoison from the dungeon all together, without changing anythingelse. Poison is so annoying and somehow EVERY mob inside the dungeon have it. No regen, constant dots ,stuns , knockdowns… it is not a pleasant experience to play dungeons but it feels like a self-torture as it is right now.

I might sound like exaggerating now but all I can say, try the place yourself and then tell me if I am wrong. Even with the Miracle , 1 wipe , run of the Story…it took over 1-2 hours. And I saw my friends get 2 levels in PvP and getting better rewards from it than the time I spend in the dungeon and the rewards I got.

So, long rant short…either AC needs MANY adjustments to damage or elite’s skills. Or the dungeons NEEDS to have something to make all this Suffering worthwhile. Because as it is… I am quite inclined to skip ALL dungeons I see as if they carry a plague. And I LOVE dungeons in MMOs. I don’t want to miss out on them but I can’t bear the suffering and annoyance for 2 hours of wiping because of the unbalanced skills and numbers with soo little to gain in the end.

I believe you are meaning AC Explorer – Howling King, right?

Those that “perma” stun you are scavengers. They only do that after a small moment of “charging”. Then they jump on you and mow you down.
You WILL have to dodge or run (since it has limited leaping range).
The trick is exactly this: Dodge, kite, use buffs and most importantly. CC.

As a guardian, my favorite spell will always be the one that pulls everyone to me. Even if the bigger ones dont come, they do get interrupted.

If you try explorer AC again (those are “hard modes” you know?), try Ghost Eater as it is WAY easier. Just dont stay clustered all together so elementalists and rangers dont eat you alive. Also, blinds and fears are your friends! God, I love blind.

Everyone is learning. Including you.

if you need any advice on how to do AC Explorer, send me a tell, it does work between servers (Reihert.1509).

Just finished Howling King – oooh man we wiped a bunch of times. Good times though – we ended up defeating it and the final boss we didn’t wipe on.

Thank you for making an actual challenging PvE content!

ShroudedKoyo.6081:

Although the challenge to the dungeons are what makes them fun some are just too much. Doing Sorrow’s Embrace story mode was just great with a group of guild members. That is untill we reached Kudu and his gollems. The first gollem went ok but the second one spams attacks like there is no tomorrow. Coupled with healing on removing conditions it was enough to make people ragequit.

We fought him for an hour, trying out different tactics and trying to avoid conditions as much as possible. Even with only one condition on him he can still heal a decent amount and coupled with the damage he does (1,6k hits on lvl 80’s with 80 gear and traits) it was impossible. Dont try to say learn to dodge please. We dodged and healed as much as we could but those cooldowns are way higher then that 1,6 k spam attack he uses twice every 10 seconds.

We noticed he didn’t seem to do that crazy bomb spam as long as you had one person more mid-to-melee range. We found it out totally by accident, but yeah. Only run it once, and I’m certainly no expert, but there seem to be a lot more mechanics to fights than people realize.

That, or it was a very consistent fluke.

Cromx.3941:

Just ran CM today….was in there 2+ hours…..we died and died and ran and ran….people quit we tried to replace, got the you can’t join your dungeon instance bug of course and had to quit.

…Story mode or explorable? Can’t comment on explorable since I haven’t tried it … but blinds/projectile deflection/destruction work wonders for that in story mode.

EDIT: Er, whoops, I meant to just edit into the first post. Sorry!

if you can’t do dungeons, leave. So many MMOs out there, cough wow cough, cater to the general population. This is the only one who panders to those with skill, money and time. I’m sorry if you dont have the l33tness required. This game will do fine even if it only has 100k players so we dont mind if those of you who cant do it, leave.

Welp, as a promised update, we ran enough Catacombs on all modes enough times for us to get one Ascalonian Greatsword each (390 Tears). Here are some screenshots!

Our total tears
Price of Greatsword
Both of us checking out our swords
Kazul just being a kitten.

Unfortunately, we just finished getting the tears JUST as it was turning day. So we didn’t get to see our weapons in glowy awesomeness. But this overall proves that the dungeons are possible with teamwork =]. We did all of this in 2 days.

Cry moar ghosts! Your tears bring me joy! Quite literally.

Kinto.9485:

Welp, as a promised update, we ran enough Catacombs on all modes enough times for us to get one Ascalonian Greatsword each (390 Tears). Here are some screenshots!

Our total tears
Price of Greatsword
Both of us checking out our swords
Kazul just being a kitten.

Unfortunately, we just finished getting the tears JUST as it was turning day. So we didn’t get to see our weapons in glowy awesomeness. But this overall proves that the dungeons are possible with teamwork =]. We did all of this in 2 days.

Cry moar ghosts! Your tears bring me joy! Quite literally.

May I ask for the stats? How are they compared to the other items of the same level range?

im sorry but AC explore mode is brokenly stupid. mobs have WAY too much life really exciting attacking a champ spider for 20+ mins just because of his bloated hp #‘s. Dont even get me started on the stupid cave troll or thekitten skelk event. Last but not least the Lieutenant with his nearly undodgeably grapple skill that if you just happen to not have stam or dodge .0000001 sec too soon/late your dead period no if ands or buts. I dont care you all can say they’re “just fine” but a pug group that has even some skill with thier class should be able to drop bosses pretty easily not “win by attrition” and just death spawning over and over to win. thats my rant and im not impressed with explore mode dungeons with a whopping 2 dodges and 1 heal. What happens if oh 3 mobs target you 2 dodges and 1 heal will not keep you alive your dead end of story. oh plus the fact my ELITE mesmer skill moa works on pretty much nothing and when it does work if deff doesnt last 10 secs maybe 3 at best and bosses are immune to stun,fear,knockdown, interupts. /end rant

Only done story modes of the first two but love them. Thought AC was better because it was harder.

Am looking forward to,explorer modes when I properly learn my character and know what I am doing, maybe that is what people are doing wrong, thinking they deserve shinies on a silver tray.

I noticed the cost of repairs was high and the returns low but I don’t care, it is a game where digital currency isn’t the fun part of the game, having fun is.

Devs, don’t make dungeons face rolls please. Ta.

Use “pulling” tactics when you can. The party stays well out of aggro range. The puller, perhaps a thief or mesmer goes into the room and tries to pull one or two mobs. If they pull to many, they drop combat.

This is how it was done in the old Everquest days and it works in GW2.

It’s slow going though.

As stated, control and support are important. I might even add to say completely underrated by pugs.
So to do dungeons I would say priorities the following:
1. Stay alive.
2. Support your fellow crawlers (combo fields, combo finishers, giving boons.)
3. Control the fight (snares for the melee mobs, blind some ranged mobs ect.)
4. Focus your damage, if nothing is called then call a target (even if the choice is wrong at least it has been made.)
5. Be ready to change your utility set up as needed for the dungeon sections, even at times be ready to change weapon sets before an engage.

For a good build in dungeon pugs, would be well rounded one.
Which takes some support (buffs, condition clears, combo fields)
At least one control if not two control abilities (util weapon skill, whichever)
And a prioritized source of damage (condition damage. Crit with effects from traits. Flat damage.)

In guild groups, or organized groups, you can actually get away with glass cannon with greedy evasive skills to survive, leaving control/support to the other four members. But in pugs, due to their unorganized nature, you really have to have a well rounded build, to fill in as needed, as situation dictates.

I specced condition necromancer and I do no damage to the burrows during the defense objectives because objects are immune to conditions. Only time I do any damage is in Lich form, how do I get past this problem?