Guild Wars 2

Anet, I don’t know where else I can post this, and originally wanted to e-mail it, so I’m posting it here. It is my highest hope that this post reaches someone that cares as much as I do, and that the “powers that be” will give my suggestions sincere consideration; I’ve a passion to see GW2 be at its best – just as much as they do. That said, my suggestions are below, but I preferenced it with some background on me to better understand where my passion for PvP comes from…

Respectfully, I’ve been PvPing my heart out since 1995 (ish). My earliest memory of PvP dates back to when AOL unleashed a game called Magestorm, which was created by Mythic Entertainment. That game would set the stage and redefine what it meant to play video games for me. My days playing on my SNES, Genesis, etc. quickly became a thing of the past – I wanted more and couldn’t seem to get enough: this was the game of choice for me.

Fast forward years later, Guild Wars comes out, and I missed the initial release of it because I was still caught up in DAOC and WoW. Those were the “giants” of 2000-2006, but eventually my ever burning desire for PvP gaming lead me to try GW out. Now here was a game changer! Unlike DAOC and WoW, Guild Wars brought something so unique, diverse, and special to the table – I was hooked, and it didn’t take long to bid farewell to DAOC and WoW.

Guild Wars was a great time – and every expansion brought new wonder, splendor, and something beautiful for us to enjoy. The artistry – OMG WOW! AMAZING! BREATH-TAKING! (Thank you, to this day, for keeping that game alive!). PvP thrived on with new skill combinations and new classes (god, I miss the Rituatlist and Dervish!) Life was good. But, like with all things, it came to a semi-end w/ GW2 coming into existence, and GW2 was the future of where things were heading – like it or not.

And here we are, and now we get to my concerns, disappointments, and suggestions. Why did you remove the true RANDOM PvP matches that took place in original GW? Why has no one thought to bring that game style back? Why must those of us that enjoy a “gladiator” random play match up vs. team be subject to endure the current limited match options we have today in GW2? Arena PvP? Don’t insult us. Unranked? Ranked? Doable, but not very ideal: both still pit your possible PUG team against an organized TEAM. Why? How is that fair in the spirit of competition? Clearly an organized team, or semi-team, is going to have an advantage over one that isn’t. Furthermore, think of how over-whelming that must be to a newer player still getting their feet “wet.” Some will argue, “well, that’s what Arena’s are for,” and admittedly they do the job, but in a real PvP environment – where the stage hasn’t already been set for you – it’s not the same. Not even close.

Some of us prefer the lone wolf play style vs team. Some of us don’t have a guild, want to play in a guild, or have real life friends playing this game to make up a group. Some of us don’t want any of that. We prefer our solo existence for what it is, but we’re still part of your community. I respect that GW2 is a social structured game. I like it! But whether we want to enter PvP under a true Random arena or TEAM arena should be an option. Is there not enough room for BOTH play styles and mind sets? I like the randomness of PUG – pure Random matches like in GW1. Want team play? Gather friends, guildies, etc. and ORGANIZE your strategy and have at it. If I can respect that style, then why can’t the PUG random style also be respected and enjoyed? Additionally, what ever happened to Guild vs Guild 8-person matches (another GW1 PvP option)?! Brilliant idea! How can you call this Guild Wars, and not have GUILD WARS?!?!

My point in all this is that GW1 offered diversity of play styles and options for PvP, and in Guild Wars 2 those options are severally lacking – why? It’s the very foundation you built upon for end game content and play – right? Yes, there is PvE. Yes, there is HoT. Yes, there are raids, dungeons, etc. All that is amazing, awesome, and worth savouring for the PvE gamer that pursues that game style. But, for those of us that PvP hardcore, and play GW2 for it – please, consider adding more play options to PvP for GW2, and give us back something that’s been missing from this game from the start!

Final thoughts to this suggestion:

- Random PvP Play (could call it “Gladiator Play”) – 3 vs 3, 5 vs 5, and 7 vs 7 would make for some fantastic match-ups.

- Keep unranked and ranked match play for true PUG/Random match ups and TEAM match ups alike

- No changing your class after being qued up. This prevents class swapping to over-load or over-counter the other team’s composition, not to mention – didn’t the que just pick that player and the character they’re playing for a reason? Stop permitting class swaps after queing into a match just makes sense. You’ve committed to playing the PvP match as-is the moment you que up for a PvP match. Simple.

- Diversify your PvP maps. PvP has patiently been waiting for more maps since GW2 came out! Where are they?!

- Keep the win streak component that GW1 had – if your PUG random team wins, then you move on to the next team that ques up against you, or waiting in que. Win 5 matches in a row, gain a BONUS (could be chests, exp, coin, etc.) for doing so well, and keep receiving bonuses at 10 wins in a row, 15, 20, and up to 25.

- Did your random PUG team just win 25 in a row? Congratulations! You’re name gets listed on a plague for the week! Think about it…it has merit, and helps put on display the truly dedicated to perfecting their skill and build to work w/ other random individuals!

- Get ride of strongholds, or make some serious changes to it. It’s worthless in the grander scheme of PvP. In fact, is it even PvP? Most matches I ever played were, RUSH THE LORD ASAP! You could end up completely ignoring the other team. It was a rush to see who could move and get to the Lord the quickest. Meh. Better yet – turn that map into a PvP random map for 7vs7 or 10vs10 even!

- Bring back guild vs guild, and the ability to watch/observe the match play out! It’s a great way for other players (especially new) to learn builds, play styles, and skill combos.

I have so many more ideas – I’m available for hire (hint hint ). Seriously, I’d love to be on a team or committee that oversees PvP for GW2. There’s just so much untapped potential here – and you’re missing the opportunity to expand and capitalize on it! You’ve given PvE gamers their due w/ HoT. Isn’t it time that GW2 PvPers get theirs?

Kind Regards,
GCM (aka Syric, Sylvena, Valorin)

Not to kitten on your parade but were you 0 /-1 years old when you started pvping!?

Some great points and enthusiasm but Solo Q / Pug in pvp still has that random element that isnt worth rewarding. Anybody who gets 25 in a row wins just got v lucky with who they were matched with (not to say they aren’t competant players).

I would like to see larger teams at a ranked level though regardless of premade/pug/solo status!

kitten , I didn’t know PvP was already a thing back in 1996. Must’ve been a great experience with that 56k Dial-Up modem.

cassius.5809:

Not to kitten on your parade but were you 0 /-1 years old when you started pvping!?

Some great points and enthusiasm but Solo Q / Pug in pvp still has that random element that isnt worth rewarding. Anybody who gets 25 in a row wins just got v lucky with who they were matched with (not to say they aren’t competant players).

I would like to see larger teams at a ranked level though regardless of premade/pug/solo status!

No, I was in my teens back then…and, while luck had something to do with it, it also made better players out it because, over time, you learned how to be self sufficient and be a contribution to your team – in more ways than our current PvP structure has to offer anyone.

blackysharky.7581:

kitten , I didn’t know PvP was already a thing back in 1996. Must’ve been a great experience with that 56k Dial-Up modem.

Believe it or not, Magestorm was fast, extremely competitive, and just awesome. Look it up. Three teams fought it out while protecting their shrine (base) from destruction. They had water pools throughout the map that you could sit in and “cap,” which would give your team faster energy/magic regen…….truly ahead of its time. Played great on 56k – as hard as that is to believe.

love the RA nod where if your team wins you keep that team if you win i think that would be a great idea

wardspratlin.9107:

love the RA nod where if your team wins you keep that team if you win i think that would be a great idea

Appreciate that – never understood why you’d want to remove that reward. In GW1, it felt good getting that 5-win streak, not to mention the bonus Balthazar points that came w/ it. And, once you hit 10, 15, 20+ wins….talk about feeling like a REAL CHAMPION! Man – those were some great times, and ya know what, GW2 could have them too.

They need but listen, build it, and we will come. Otherwise, I really don’t see the worth of me sticking around much longer w/ GW2. What’s left? I want more PvP – not PvE – and there are so many other games I could be playing atm. In retrospect, I’m amazed GW2 still has the PvP community it does have because, ultimately, it isn’t a very forgiving environment for the new player. They jump in, trying to learn the play style, and get spanked and insulted for even trying to do it. GW1 cultivated PvPers. GW2 takes it or leaves it, and has been focused more on PvE content.

Remember your roots GW dev team. Remember where this game came from….it was successful for a reason. And the extend of that success could be so much greater than where it sits right now.

ANET – Pay me 65-85k a year, benefits, etc. and I’ll relocate and give you my all tomorrow.

Great post. A “remaster” version of a game like gw1 would still have audience. Maybe not the biggest, but would be profitable anyway.

They will not change gw2 to that direction, we would need a whole new game for it. Sadly it’s not very likely to happen.

manarchon.2089:

Great post. A “remaster” version of a game like gw1 would still have audience. Maybe not the biggest, but would be profitable anyway.

They will not change gw2 to that direction, we would need a whole new game for it. Sadly it’s not very likely to happen.

Maybe in a few years time, don’t give up on that experience coming back. Who knows, something to that feel might already be in the works.

manarchon.2089:

Great post. A “remaster” version of a game like gw1 would still have audience. Maybe not the biggest, but would be profitable anyway.

They will not change gw2 to that direction, we would need a whole new game for it. Sadly it’s not very likely to happen.

Thank you Manarchon! Where there is hope – there is a chance that things may yet still change. We, the players, have to continue pushing this topikittenil we’re heard in unison. A remaster version? Oh I shiver with joy to think of GW1 remastered …..GW2 would be uninstalled in a heartbeat.

Fourth.1567:

manarchon.2089:

Great post. A “remaster” version of a game like gw1 would still have audience. Maybe not the biggest, but would be profitable anyway.

They will not change gw2 to that direction, we would need a whole new game for it. Sadly it’s not very likely to happen.

Maybe in a few years time, don’t give up on that experience coming back. Who knows, something to that feel might already be in the works.

Here here! In the meantime, GW1 remains installed on my computer, and once in awhile I go back down memory lane for pure nostalgic enjoyment!

cassius.5809:

Not to kitten on your parade but were you 0 /-1 years old when you started pvping!?

You do realize there were people playing video games before you were born right? Not everyone playing this game is a 20 year old.

Syric.1936:

blackysharky.7581:

kitten , I didn’t know PvP was already a thing back in 1996. Must’ve been a great experience with that 56k Dial-Up modem.

Believe it or not, Magestorm was fast, extremely competitive, and just awesome. Look it up. Three teams fought it out while protecting their shrine (base) from destruction. They had water pools throughout the map that you could sit in and “cap,” which would give your team faster energy/magic regen…….truly ahead of its time. Played great on 56k – as hard as that is to believe.

Yeah, I used to play doom on a 14,400 modem. It was surprising fast and less laggy than Call Of Duty. Haha.

wardspratlin.9107:

love the RA nod where if your team wins you keep that team if you win i think that would be a great idea

that only worked for guild wars 1 random arenas because the fights are usually over within a minute, plus the queue time is under 30 seconds.

it will not work with guild wars 2 5v5 conquest because a match is about 10 minutes average and queue time is about 2 – 5 minutes or even higher.

it simply will not work.
unless we have less than 30 seconds queue times and matches that conclude within a minute.

blackysharky.7581:

kitten , I didn’t know PvP was already a thing back in 1996. Must’ve been a great experience with that 56k Dial-Up modem.

yup, quake 1 free for all death match was awesome fun on a us robotics 56k dial up modem.

well provided that there is a local quake 1 server nearby.

One thing I have to disagree with is removing class swapping, unless matchmaking is changed significantly. The number of games I see with three thieves matchmade together is, while smallish, enough to mean class changing needs to stay. It’s not such an issue with say, three eles, because they fulfil a different role, but some classes will create a loss almost 100% of the time if they end up stacked.
Changing class DURING a match however, should be disabled in some way, I agree. Mostly because it tends to lose the game for the team that has the player changing.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

wardspratlin.9107:

love the RA nod where if your team wins you keep that team if you win i think that would be a great idea

that only worked for guild wars 1 random arenas because the fights are usually over within a minute, plus the queue time is under 30 seconds.

it will not work with guild wars 2 5v5 conquest because a match is about 10 minutes average and queue time is about 2 – 5 minutes or even higher.

it simply will not work.
unless we have less than 30 seconds queue times and matches that conclude within a minute.

it would work if it was… RA. no respawn, deathmatch, no mmr just random matchups

since fights were just quick and fun, it didn’t matter if you had 10 straight losses, that was only 10-15 mins. w/ gw2 conquest, thats only 1 match. w/ gw2 conquest 10 straight losses = ~100 min match time, 30 min queue, or over 2 hours = misery

Jaxom.7310:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

wardspratlin.9107:

love the RA nod where if your team wins you keep that team if you win i think that would be a great idea

that only worked for guild wars 1 random arenas because the fights are usually over within a minute, plus the queue time is under 30 seconds.

it will not work with guild wars 2 5v5 conquest because a match is about 10 minutes average and queue time is about 2 – 5 minutes or even higher.

it simply will not work.
unless we have less than 30 seconds queue times and matches that conclude within a minute.

it would work if it was… RA. no respawn, deathmatch, no mmr just random matchups

since fights were just quick and fun, it didn’t matter if you had 10 straight losses, that was only 10-15 mins. w/ gw2 conquest, thats only 1 match. w/ gw2 conquest 10 straight losses = ~100 min match time, 30 min queue, or over 2 hours = misery

yup.

gw1 ra 4v4 annihilation was fast and nice.

unfortunately, they only balance gw2 for 5v5 conquest and nothing else.

Jaxom.7310:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

wardspratlin.9107:

love the RA nod where if your team wins you keep that team if you win i think that would be a great idea

that only worked for guild wars 1 random arenas because the fights are usually over within a minute, plus the queue time is under 30 seconds.

it will not work with guild wars 2 5v5 conquest because a match is about 10 minutes average and queue time is about 2 – 5 minutes or even higher.

it simply will not work.
unless we have less than 30 seconds queue times and matches that conclude within a minute.

it would work if it was… RA. no respawn, deathmatch, no mmr just random matchups

since fights were just quick and fun, it didn’t matter if you had 10 straight losses, that was only 10-15 mins. w/ gw2 conquest, thats only 1 match. w/ gw2 conquest 10 straight losses = ~100 min match time, 30 min queue, or over 2 hours = misery

I couldn’t have said it any better – EXACTLY! It’s the entire time invested just to get a match out of GW2 sPvP……hence the misery of progression through the current division system, which just adds another layer of complexity to the que criteria.

Unranked? Ranked? Doable, but not very ideal: both still pit your possible PUG
team against an organized TEAM. Why? How is that fair in the spirit of competition?

There are enough players who have made it to Legendary only SoloQueuing. This is just one of those excused that people use. Just improve your own skill and you are fine. Ofc it would be nice, if only the same teamsizes would face each other, but just be real here, then the long queuing times would increase even more.

Furthermore, think of how over-whelming that must be to a newer player still getting their feet “wet.”

I don’t think that’s such a big problem. It is really the same like in every other game. Also, with a working (I know, it is not working right now) rating system in mind, you are not getting overwhelmed by your opponents, since they are playing as bad as you are. Currently, ever meta (aka the stronges) build is very easy to play. E.g. as a shatter mesmer a year ago, you would have been dead after a warrior hit you with ‘Pin down’. So you had to know the skill and look out for it. Now, every profession is a bit more tanky and a little error is not the end.

No changing your class after being qued up.

I agree, but unfortunately, it seems they haven’t gotten a technical solution for the problem. IRC the decision was between grating players a minute to get into the game after a dc or not allowing profession changes.

Personally I think there are two large areas that need improvement:
*) The current rank game
This includes: No professsion changes in a match; better match making: teams should have the same average MMR like in S1 (Change the league system instead, not the match making!)
*) More incentives to play pvp
This includes: More interesting and viable specs; a pure mmr based challenger tier at the top of the league

I was saying that MM should be totally random as well. Sadly, fairwhiners have more influence than us still. Redouble our efforts?

And i started gaming in 1999, the glorious, GLORIOUS year of Inverse Beast when the best games ever were out.

Also, you are unlikely to be taken seriously or even read at all because of your tl:dr, i think.

I like the incentive behind this post. I too began competitive play in older games around 1996ish, beginning with Diablo 1 dueling and Ultima Online guild vs guild so I get where you’re coming from with your statements.

I do want to point out a few things about GW2 however, as it is the game I have chosen to stick with and play exclusively for the past 4 years:

• GW1 did indeed also pit you against premade teams as a solo que, it just took awhile to happen. If your RA team kept getting wins, it would eventually begin placing you against TA ques instead of RA ques. If you still kept getting wins, it would eventually merge your team with another team and throw you in to HA for a go. They later stripped this from the game and made it a 25 win streak in RA only then get disbanded. The only difference between the dynamic of GW1 and GW2 is how many people were still not using voice chats during the GW1 era. Now in GW2 era, at least half of the players out there are willing to or are using voice chats in team play, casually each night. During the GW1 era, most communication was through text chat and pinging so a good PUG group vs. a good premade didn’t usually have noticeable differences in their abilities to communicate. Now during GW2 era, a PUG group vs. a guild premade on TS, is just a detrimental flaw in the game, when allowed to happen. So essentially, the problem isn’t unranked/ranked or conquest/stronghold, the problem is that there is no segregation between non-voicechat users and avid-voicechat users. Arena-net needs to accept that this is indeed a problem in their game and tend to it accordingly. Devise a system/game mode that helps encourage this separation. Here is an important link better explaining this problem that needs to be reposted here -> https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Two-different-types-of-competitive-gamers/first#post5103961
• 8v8 being present or 4v4 or 6v6 is negligent. 5v5 is perfect for the dynamic of conquest matches. GvG is present but it isn’t 8v8 old dynamic and it never will be in GW2. One must understand in GW2 that the more players there are present on each side of a battle, the more the meta tactics become like WvW zerging. If you want coordinated & precise skirmishing, you won’t want more than 5v5 players in a match meeting toe to toe over a single objective or it begins to get zergy. The best GvG you’ll get is within the guild team league ladder or by simply playing WvW. WvW in itself, is a massive guild vs guild. What GW2 really needs is something like a 1v1 arena with a leaderboard attached. This would bring back an enormous amount of competitive player base and provide a mode that helps begin to lay bricks in the foundation of the needed wall to encourage the segregation between non-voicechat and voicechat users.
• Stronghold is actually a good design if a player sits down, plays it and learns it well for about a month. In my opinion, the Stronghold and Conquest ques need to be merged, along with 1 or 2 other new 5v5 mode game types “to go with Stronghold and Conquest”. Then give us a save/load pvp template option = lots of new dynamic = fun things to do = not hard to program in. Why has this not happened yet? Bring Courtyard back, add that save/load template bar. Problem solved and people are having fun again. The only reason they didn’t like Courtyard is because no one wanted to fumble around changing their conquest spec in to a courtyard spec within 60s of the match starting and then do the same thing again when they load a conquest match after wards. Add save/load template and then players will actually like alternate match types.
• I cannot stress enough, that all of us old GW1 players need to let go of the nostalgic 8v8 GvG. It worked great with the old GW1 engine but GW2 is just a different game and I’ll say it again: The more players that meet head to head in a given skirmish over a single objective, the more zergy it gets. GW1 had a lot of precision play going on mostly because the game had a flat-footed feel compared to GW2. In GW1, players had plenty of time to toggle targets, pay attention to each opponent/teammate status effects, plan next action while a cast time finished or was on a long recharge, ect.. ect.. GW2 is not like this. It is much faster paced and chaotic. When 8v8+ happen in GW2, there is no time to sit and analyze enemy actions. You need to zerg up in the best frontline/midline/backline positions possible and play from there as a single unit of players who move like a school of fish. This is just how big numbers vs. big numbers works in GW2. It’s a lot different than GW1 dynamic. Keep in mind that healing in GW2 or party sustain, is all about stacking up for those small radius heals. We no longer have long range single target big heals/protections from Monks. This is a HUGE difference in the engine’s dynamic and mainly what prioritizes zerg formations in big numbers vs. big numbers. If they simply gave let’s say the Guardian, a big single target long range heal, let’s say 2000 range… we’d see an enormous shift in spvp play as well as wvw play.

At any rate, not trying to bog up the purpose of your post.
Just trying to give productive feedback.

My favorite things to do in gw1 is jade quarry and alliance battles, those are the most fun pvp game modes I’ve ever played, (especially alliance battles) and they don’t allow premades against solo players. Also there’s no match making that tries to put a group of best players against a group of not so best players (how does that even make sense) its first come first serve and it worked great when there was actually people around playing. Not to mention all the hundreds of different build choices you had that added even more diversity and fun to it, and every profession having a different role was also nice and interesting, my personal favorite to play was healer monk or tanky dervish. And keys as a reward was a VERY nice reward in my opinion instead of a box of stuff that I just throw away.