Guild Wars 2

Liam McColgan.7689:

Mesmer pre patch required skill, mainly because you were forced to take 0 condi removal. Engi and necro takes skill to be at the top, i agree. But Stop defending a class that is the jack of all trades. I’m only talking about d/d cele ofc. I happen to think staff and fresh air scepter eles require alot of skill and knowledge of other classes to be effective but they simply do not exist in a competitive environment because its obviously easier and more braindead to go cele. You honestly think being effective at d/d cele ele requires the same or more skill than any other class right now? Are you sure thats what you are saying? Ask yourself why d/d cele eles are the only class being stacked right now at top tier play. It’s certainly not because they are hard to master/high skill capped.

When it was last time any decent player got killed by a staff ele or scepter ele? When it was last time you got killed by a staff ele for example?

But to sum it up, the staff and scepter ele that can’t kill any decent player..require skill, meanwhile the d/d set which brings eles up to par to other professions and to which you die…requires no skill, hmm..such coincidence…

I’ll leave this here:
http://www.vrworld.com/2009/03/24/mmo-industry-or-the-plague-of-nerfs/

Supreme.3164:

Liam McColgan.7689:

Mesmer pre patch required skill, mainly because you were forced to take 0 condi removal. Engi and necro takes skill to be at the top, i agree. But Stop defending a class that is the jack of all trades. I’m only talking about d/d cele ofc. I happen to think staff and fresh air scepter eles require alot of skill and knowledge of other classes to be effective but they simply do not exist in a competitive environment because its obviously easier and more braindead to go cele. You honestly think being effective at d/d cele ele requires the same or more skill than any other class right now? Are you sure thats what you are saying? Ask yourself why d/d cele eles are the only class being stacked right now at top tier play. It’s certainly not because they are hard to master/high skill capped.

When it was last time any decent player got killed by a staff ele or scepter ele? When it was last time you got killed by a staff ele for example?

But to sum it up, the staff and scepter ele that can’t kill any decent player..require skill, meanwhile the d/d set which brings eles up to par to other professions and to which you die…requires no skill, hmm..such coincidence…

I’ll leave this here:
http://www.vrworld.com/2009/03/24/mmo-industry-or-the-plague-of-nerfs/

No d/d cele doesnt not bring the class up to par, it takes them over par. No people dont die to a cele ele. If you do, you deserve to die. You should not be 1v1ing a d/d cele ele unless you are a bunker yourself, and only if the point is worth 1v1ing on (you have it capped or to keep it neutral). They die to the rest of the team, be it the thief +1ing or the eles bunker stacking while you get decapped elsewhere.

The ele is NOT skillful and is NOT mvp. They simply do their job incredibly effectively, which is hold the point, peel/cleanse for allies while the rest of the team actually does good plays. At the end of the day, if 6/20 classes were d/d cele eles at WTS, what does that prove. It’s not about favouritism, or being salty, or toxic for the sake of being toxic as you are trying to imply with that article. It’s about accepting, that one class, with 1 amulet, has been god more for over a year and it’s boring. People want a change. People want risk/reward ratios to be as balanced as possible for every class. Now it is near impossible to make everyone happy all of the time, but that doesn’t mean you can try to create an argument that 1 class with 1 amulet is fine when it is not.

Yes there will always be 1 class considered OP no matter what. When d/d ele gets nerfed (if it ever will) another will replace it just like its predecessor, but for the love of god change it. Over a year is over a year too much.

Supreme.3164:

When it was last time any decent player got killed by a staff ele or scepter ele? When it was last time you got killed by a staff ele for example?

But to sum it up, the staff and scepter ele that can’t kill any decent player..require skill, meanwhile the d/d set which brings eles up to par to other professions and to which you die…requires no skill, hmm..such coincidence…

I’ll leave this here:
http://www.vrworld.com/2009/03/24/mmo-industry-or-the-plague-of-nerfs/

I got killed by Scepter ele 2 days ago.
1st I got immobilized and then I ate Icebow #5.
After this all kittenz went down on me.

I personally laughed, because so far it was the first time I ate Icebow #5 and didn’t know that nothing prevent it from activating the moment it does connect with hitbox.

10/10 was impressed.

It’s so easy to chalk up the Abjured win to a reason that places no responsibility on oneself or a team. Why is this?

It’s so convenient to completely dismiss the fact the Abjured were in the losers bracket. Hm, really? Why is that? They still had 2 d/d ele’s for those matches. What happened? oRNG played better. As a team, they countered just about everything the Abjured were doing.

Then come the finals. I’m sure most people expected oRNG to run away with it, but something interesting happened. The Abjured exhibited a better ability to adapt to what oRNG was doing, create a tactical advantage and out rotate them, over and over. Is this tactical advantage attributed only to the fact they had 2 d/d ele’s? No!

2 d/d eles are obviously strong, but waaay too much weight is being put on that fact alone as a reason for the Abjured win and less on team tactics and misplays.

skcamow.3527:

It’s so easy to chalk up the Abjured win to a reason that places no responsibility on oneself or a team. Why is this?

It’s so convenient to completely dismiss the fact the Abjured were in the losers bracket. Hm, really? Why is that? They still had 2 d/d ele’s for those matches. What happened? oRNG played better. As a team, they countered just about everything the Abjured were doing.

Then come the finals. I’m sure most people expected oRNG to run away with it, but something interesting happened. The Abjured exhibited a better ability to adapt to what oRNG was doing, create a tactical advantage and out rotate them, over and over. Is this tactical advantage attributed only to the fact they had 2 d/d ele’s? No!

2 d/d eles are obviously strong, but waaay too much weight is being put on that fact alone as a reason for the Abjured win and less on team tactics and misplays.

True. I think people (certainly me) accept oRNG played/rotated terribly in final game. They proved they can and probably should have beaten Abjured in the finals. But you can also argue it was Toker’s decapping/back capping/ +1ing/clutch stealths or Chaithes amazingly timed moas or cc/kiting carrying them. The eles just did what they always do. Brainless bunkering/ self sustaining. It’s unfortunate they stacked said class too. If oRNG won playing double rampage the same discussion would be happening about how stupid double warr and rampage is. But they didnt. They also had a necro playing cele, because stacking 3x ele would be absurd right? My argument is people have accepted for some reason that d/d cele eles are a) skilful and b) totally fine with defining the meta for months and months and months. I am not. Hence why i’m putting my argument across, and i’m not the only one.

Definitely delusional.

They complain that the Abjured won because they stack bunker Eles. They conveniently forget that oRNG has a bunker Ele too, and a super bunker Guardian. In fact, Tage barely lost HP while Wakkey/Phantaram died constantly.

What happened was the Abjured rotated right, and make Tage vs Nos all the time, keeping one of the bunker out of loop, and cannot heal their teammates. oRNG was totally out rotated. Attempting to use the double Ele as an excuse for poor play is delusional. Remember, oRNG has an Ele and a super bunker Guardian too.

oRNG won quite a few team fights….
It’s not the “omg abjured runs 2 cele eles, auto win”
Its rotations. Thats how you win in high level.

Time is the biggest enemy because at this level of play, both teams are probably evenly skilled in terms of their classes/build. Both teams are at the top of the skill chain, but one team was better at the intangibles (timing and watching the clock, rotations, knowing when to just survive and fight on point instead of trying to burst down the enemy, when to disengage and go for far, etc.

They couldn’t keep up with tokers rotations nor could oRNG win the fights on nodes in a quicker fashion , thus leading to the loss.

I will say the cele ele’s sustain is unreal thou… no other classes survive that long in 2v1’s, 3v1s, etc unless they pop a long CD skill like rampage or something. Granted cele ele don’t win the fight, but they hold off long enough for someone to rotate over. Most over classes are dead by the time a teammate could rotate over for help

Sunshine.5014:

snip

Funny that there are still people who aren’t able to understand the difference between ele+ele and ele+bunkerguard. Especially when it comes to temple…

10/10

dominik.9721:

Sunshine.5014:

snip

Funny that there are still people who aren’t able to understand the difference between ele+ele and ele+bunkerguard. Especially when it comes to temple…

10/10

Yeh people are like " well guard is superior bunker to ele EXCEPT the dont have the mobility. "
Well it is NOT superior then. Especially when the whole game is based on rotations if all skill being equal. Hence why double stacked ele > ele + bunker. ANY team that wins THE tournament for that game with class stacking deserves to be dissected, questioned and debated about, regardless of class. Double stacking /= balance.

Liam McColgan.7689:

Supreme.3164:

Liam McColgan.7689:

Mesmer pre patch required skill, mainly because you were forced to take 0 condi removal. Engi and necro takes skill to be at the top, i agree. But Stop defending a class that is the jack of all trades. I’m only talking about d/d cele ofc. I happen to think staff and fresh air scepter eles require alot of skill and knowledge of other classes to be effective but they simply do not exist in a competitive environment because its obviously easier and more braindead to go cele. You honestly think being effective at d/d cele ele requires the same or more skill than any other class right now? Are you sure thats what you are saying? Ask yourself why d/d cele eles are the only class being stacked right now at top tier play. It’s certainly not because they are hard to master/high skill capped.

When it was last time any decent player got killed by a staff ele or scepter ele? When it was last time you got killed by a staff ele for example?

But to sum it up, the staff and scepter ele that can’t kill any decent player..require skill, meanwhile the d/d set which brings eles up to par to other professions and to which you die…requires no skill, hmm..such coincidence…

I’ll leave this here:
http://www.vrworld.com/2009/03/24/mmo-industry-or-the-plague-of-nerfs/

No d/d cele doesnt not bring the class up to par, it takes them over par. No people dont die to a cele ele. If you do, you deserve to die. You should not be 1v1ing a d/d cele ele unless you are a bunker yourself, and only if the point is worth 1v1ing on (you have it capped or to keep it neutral). They die to the rest of the team, be it the thief +1ing or the eles bunker stacking while you get decapped elsewhere.

The ele is NOT skillful and is NOT mvp. They simply do their job incredibly effectively, which is hold the point, peel/cleanse for allies while the rest of the team actually does good plays. At the end of the day, if 6/20 classes were d/d cele eles at WTS, what does that prove. It’s not about favouritism, or being salty, or toxic for the sake of being toxic as you are trying to imply with that article. It’s about accepting, that one class, with 1 amulet, has been god more for over a year and it’s boring. People want a change. People want risk/reward ratios to be as balanced as possible for every class. Now it is near impossible to make everyone happy all of the time, but that doesn’t mean you can try to create an argument that 1 class with 1 amulet is fine when it is not.

Yes there will always be 1 class considered OP no matter what. When d/d ele gets nerfed (if it ever will) another will replace it just like its predecessor, but for the love of god change it. Over a year is over a year too much.

You go back on your own words often; weren’t you the one to say that staff ele takes skill and d/d doesn’t?

Well as a matter of fact, both staff and d/d have always used same amulet and trait set up, assuming the same practical role : point holder, a role perfectly done by shout guardian also.

Now you go and say that point holder ele takes no skill because it’s good at what it does : holding points, following the same logic then even bunker guardian takes no skill but..wait you don’t say this, you specifically say that d/d takes no skill as point holder while staff ele does the same and it takes skill according to you..so what’s the difference between cele staff and cele d/d…haaa yes..the 1vs1 potential, you don’t die 1vs1 to staff or shout bunker do you?

But hey mesmer and thief are also too good at their role or..did we ever have another profession taking thief role since launch?…..NOPE
Did mesmer or thief ever gave the chance to some other profession to cover for the burst role?….NOPE

So what would be your excuse?…ha yes..

Mesmer/thief: “mesmer and thieves can’t cover any other role so other profession can shove it, the burst role is ours..but hey you’re too good as point holder and should be nerfed to allow other professions to cover it”

Point holder:" but…that’s all we’re good for"

Mesmer:" don’t care, you need a nerf"

I leave this here:
http://www.vrworld.com/2009/03/24/mmo-industry-or-the-plague-of-nerfs/

P.S You’re right saying that risk/reward ratio should be balanced around the board..but that goes for all professions and not only ele, if we’re too good at holding points, you’re too good at burst..if not among those 20 professions at WTS we would have seen the likes of LB ranger and Med guardian, Thief and mesmer are the main reasons why those specs are not taken, why risk victory by taking inferior builds?….talking about meta shaping specs…yeah thieves and mesmers hold the crown since 2012

WTS Boston..Abjured play 2 eles and lose- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIkJmb7PeyM

Yes i do believe staff ele requires more skill than d/d ele. So what they use the same amulet? If staff was more effective and the risk/reward ratio was on par with d/d (especially survivability) then the majority of eles would be staff. But it clearly is not. So i dont understand what the issue with that is.

YEs mesmers/thieves excel at their role too, +1ing/mobility, burst. But it requires a much higher risk/reward ratio to d/d ele. If you kitten up on those, or any zerker class for that matter, you are insta dead (maybe not so mesmer now most run pu). If you kitten up as d/d ele, its np. They do nothing other than self sustain on a node. Why cant you accept this is not skilful, yet is very effective. The risk/rward ratio simply is not the same.

I get your point. Hence why people have QQed for years that mesmer or any other zerker were being pushed out the meta because of thieves. Thieves were literally the only reason you didnt see other top tier zerker classes until recently. Now mesmer and med guard is up there with thief, if not better. It’s a shame fresh air eles are not. Now its time for d/d eles to experience the same. Class stacking should NEVER be justified. End of.

Thief was too good at burst in relation to other classes,they got fixed ( by med and mes buffs) eles are too good at bunkering in relation to other classes…..so what the hell is your point?

Didn’t had a chance to watch the live stream cos of my crappy internet connection,is there any chance they going to upload a VoD of the finals,where i can watch this marvelous thief rotation you guys talking about? Maybe on youtube.
TBH i am currently having difficulties rotating and +1 fights post patch. Just wanted to seek some knowledge.

Oh and gz NA representative.

Celestial Dagger/Dagger Elementalist is balanced.

Chapell.1346:

Didn’t had a chance to watch the live stream cos of my crappy internet connection,is there any chance they going to upload a VoD of the finals,where i can watch this marvelous thief rotation you guys talking about? Maybe on youtube.
TBH i am currently having difficulties rotating and +1 fights post patch. Just wanted to seek some knowledge.

Oh and gz NA representative.

Watch Toker then compare it to Sindrener. It’s like the PERFECT comparison between how to play Thief and how not to.

My goodness the saltyness here. And taking away from the win. Shame on you people.

Maybe it was player skill? You guys see toker? Sheesh.

Not to mention the other team ran two guards and beat everyone else up to that point…so guards also need to be nerfed by that logic? Do we nerf the popular class that wins the tournament every time? Should we nerf the class that scored the most points? LOL you guys are priceless. Had 2 eles so eles must be OP…k… (whether they are or aren’t shouldn’t have entered into a grats thread)

Collero.7963:

Chapell.1346:

Didn’t had a chance to watch the live stream cos of my crappy internet connection,is there any chance they going to upload a VoD of the finals,where i can watch this marvelous thief rotation you guys talking about? Maybe on youtube.
TBH i am currently having difficulties rotating and +1 fights post patch. Just wanted to seek some knowledge.

Oh and gz NA representative.

Watch Toker then compare it to Sindrener. It’s like the PERFECT comparison between how to play Thief and how not to.

Its too early for me to judge the differences, still haven’t watch the whole tournament. specially both teams on equal ground.
Although youtube uploads could make my life easier and much appreciated

Supreme.3164:

P.S You’re right saying that risk/reward ratio should be balanced around the board..but that goes for all professions and not only ele, if we’re too good at holding points, you’re too good at burst..if not among those 20 professions at WTS we would have seen the likes of LB ranger and Med guardian, Thief and mesmer are the main reasons why those specs are not taken, why risk victory by taking inferior builds?….talking about meta shaping specs…yeah thieves and mesmers hold the crown since 2012

WTS Boston..Abjured play 2 eles and lose- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIkJmb7PeyM

You are accidentally contradicting yourself.

WTS boston, Orng won by medi guard, and the medi guard is making very strong impact in the game. Mesmer/thief is not shutting down all other compositions. Really, only TCG is playing that combo.

Also, don’t forget WTS boston was after the cele ele nerf and the spec was brought more in-line with others. Before the nerf, there was also a lot of cry about cele dd ele being too strong.

I guess it’s not coincidence that the Abjured, with two cele dd ele, won the two WTS when the meta showed the spec was too strong.

Do not compare DD ele to bunker guard. Any other meta spec(even mesmer and thief) can contest a point vs. bunker guard. But no spec(except for maybe cele signet necro) can contest a point vs. DD ele.

Liam McColgan.7689:

Yes i do believe staff ele requires more skill than d/d ele.

Lol no.

/15 No’s.

Just the fact you can click on staff ele and still be in Go4 cup finals proves you wrong.

Laraley.7695:

Liam McColgan.7689:

Yes i do believe staff ele requires more skill than d/d ele.

Lol no.

/15 No’s.

Just the fact you can click on staff ele and still be in Go4 cup finals proves you wrong.

Clicking actually takes more skill than keyboard smashing.

Supreme.3164:

When it was last time any decent player got killed by a staff ele or scepter ele? When it was last time you got killed by a staff ele for example?

But to sum it up, the staff and scepter ele that can’t kill any decent player..require skill, meanwhile the d/d set which brings eles up to par to other professions and to which you die…requires no skill, hmm..such coincidence…

I’ll leave this here:
http://www.vrworld.com/2009/03/24/mmo-industry-or-the-plague-of-nerfs/

I love that article and the mindless drones that keep asking/saying “you shouldn’t nerf, just buff everyone up to that level.”

You ever played an MMO where they just constantly buffed under performing stuff? I have, the game went from being nice to us all feeling a bit to strong, to blatant pay to win via cash shop and constant grind for more over powered stuff to further trivialise PvE.

PvP? Oh boy, that was a mess, it was dead and completely unplayable without a big wallet, you think PvP in this game is dead it made this look like a party at the queens jubilee.

You need to balance nerfs and buffs otherwise you end up with excessive power creep that spirals completely out of control. Likewise you don’t want to nerf everything else you end up with all kinds of meh.

Junkpile.7439:

Laraley.7695:

Liam McColgan.7689:

Yes i do believe staff ele requires more skill than d/d ele.

Lol no.

/15 No’s.

Just the fact you can click on staff ele and still be in Go4 cup finals proves you wrong.

Clicking actually takes more skill than keyboard smashing.

And playing with your toes take even more skill. Doesn’t mean it is optimal.

Liam McColgan.7689:

It’s nice to know that a year later, people are still running around like braindead chickens (no offence to the chickens out there) winning tournaments with double d/d cele ele. SMH. #ESPORTSlol.

On a more serious note, some of the Orng and Abjured games were epic.

I just can’t stand double cele ele comps being carried by the setup over more skilled (relying on rotations and co-ordinated burst) teams like TCG. Got NO time for that. (and its not an NA v Eu thing. I hated Cheese Mode for the exact same reason, except Abjurd are 10x more kitten)

And i really wish people would stop saying what amazing players they are.

My nan can run around self sustaining herself as d/d ele on a node. It’s the total opposite of what top tier team pvp play should be about, and no one can convince me otherwise.

Don’t let these braindead cele eles tell you how amazing they are. Watch the clutch plays from thief/mes/engi and then look at the ele plays…./15chars

Get your self and 4 other friends together, copy abjured’s comp, compete in a weekly cup, observe as you get rofl stomped, come back and say the same thing.

Maybe you just don’t understand the intricacies of ele but Phanta and Wakkey are ridiculously good at what they do.

Ristillath.6745:

Collero.7963:

Not to take anything away from Abjured but ORNG were disgusting in those last games and apparently the ORNG Thief (I won’t name names…) has no idea about the importance of decapping – It was HORRIBLE. I’ve never witnessed a more painful watching experience in WTS.

Grats to Abjured also WELL DONE TO TOKER for playing Thief correctly.

I have to agree with you Collero.

so i’m not the only one looking at far freecap and noone goin there (facepalm)…sad thing is dat in go4 he would have gone to decap instantly

that makes me wonder…maybe playing on lan gives some map awarness problems, or maybe not, forum is definately not the place to dicuss that lack of “awarness”

anyway double cele d/d (Total of 4 bunkers comp) much wow…so fun to watch, but that makes you win so gg for running dat

Congrats to Abjured on their yearly loss to EU then rallying back to winning the tournament. RIP in peace The Curse of the Ostrich. ;_;7

Well deserved. Gratz

Played D/D cele ele for the first time in my life last night. Didn’t even watch the metabattle build. I just knew i had to put celestial amulet on and make sure i have water and arcana trait lines. I still don’t know if i nailed the exact meta build but …

Won all 8 games. Tanked like a baus vs 2 players.

I’m in no way a great PvPer but I manage to read tooltips xD . Now imagine what a good cele can do. Oh wait… they did. They won the WTS. Carry on…nothing to see here.

Meanwhile, back to my teef getting 1-shot from pretty much everyone T_T. Cele ele is just too much cheese for my taste. I still have my pride.

P.S: I really liked the idea of tanking rampage warriors while attuned to earth. No crits = no death _