Guild Wars 2

Hello players && devs!
In this thread i gonna focus on how the ’19 th patch effected the viable weaponsets and why are the majority of the changes irrelevant.

First off, i am really sad about these changes are buffs and 0nerfs where made. This ensured that ANet is still favoring the brusier, instaproc, skillspam -type gameplay that really disfavors thief especially s/d that they where trying to buff, couse it relyes on active defenses.

I gonna start with the Key changes which actually have meaning.
The Lead Attacks change: it allows thief to have a good dmg bonus after sb#5-ing through the map, which is really greate. It also favors good initiative meenagement which is really to my likeing. In conclusion i find this change the most deliberate, kudos on it.
Thorw Gunk: much apriciated that you listened to my suggestion, too bad no unblockable added. It’s a decent quality of life change, gg.
Consume Plasma: this change really helps vs meta mesmer, i gonna get on this one later. (really good change imo)

My agreement to the changes stop at this point though :/

Bontiful Theft: thes ability was already almost mandatory. This change just feels like the necro scepter boonsteal change from last season. Instead of investiong time on toning down the unhealthy boonspam you once again powercreep an ability to “handle” it. This opens opportunity to strip the aegis-stab-prot trio to land good bursts but i STRONGLY disagree with this decision nor does it synergyse with the further changes(explayned later).

Pistol changes: these got ZERO meaning. You basicly did the exact same thing that didn’t work last time….. Buffing the damage of unload wont change the viability of the weaponset. It still lacks utility/survivability. The autohit’s pressure is still extremely low etc… Also straight dmg-buffing the “skillspam” ability of a weaponset seems aweful design to me….

Now finally we came to the more in-debth part, the acro changes.
These number tweak -changes wont end the redundance between DD, Trickery and acro. This redundance is the reason acro wont take a part in the build diversity even after the changes.
There are SOOO many inside and outside problems with this line that it makes me cry. There is even redundance INSIDE the traitline, example: felineGrace-vigorousRecovery. Acro is evasion themed, still it has the biggest collection of the useless womit autopocks of the game #junipatchMentality#hotisgud…
…Period
Besides 2specific builds that i havent tested yet, i gonna explain why picking acro still isn’t optimal.
The problem relyes in what you give up to get acro vs what you already have from other lines that acro offers. Assuming that you use DA/TRICK/DD (that you should) you should count with the following:

1. dash gives permaswiftness + extra Thrill of the crime -> Expedious dodger redundant
2. bontiful theft && stolen vigor -> almost perma vigor -> feline grace redundant
3. lead attacks && sleight of hand -> Swindler’s Eq massive redundant.
4. Preparedness initiative pool + kleptomatic -> upper hand redundant.
5. Mug’s healing covers whole acro regeneration.
6. Endless stamina‘s pluss 50endurance every 20sec is totally worthless compared to daredevil’s 50max, 50on steal(20s), 135Chanelled vigor(16s), agility signet does not waste ~20-30 on use couse of 3th bar.
7. Dont stop completely redundant to Dash
8. if you need clense, Escapist’s Absolution clenses more condis overtime than Pain Response wich is even triggered for removing nooting/1bleed. Escapist’s shouldn’t be picked instead of the completely broken ‘Inpacting’, so this leaves you picking the whole traitline for a bad clense trait couse of #9
9. the rest of the traits are useless or easily counterable.

These DD/Trickery traits allready handle all the areas that acro is supposed to help in. The problem is that the whole traitlines do MUCHHH more, so the overall value loss would be too big if you dropp one for another. Here comes the first reference from above, they even buffed Trickery. why would you buff a completely ‘mandatory-since-years’ line if you got intrest in making another one viable that is already 60% redundant to it? cmon..

The last part we have to touch is: what if i want to scale these factors, instead of reducing the redundance?
This means if you want to use acro with dd and trick. With this, you enchance your defensive factors by a tiny amount, couse you where already at the limits with DD/Trick. For doing so you just sacraficed another mandatory traitline. To understand why doing this would be a major mistake, take a look how DA scales better as a defensive line than acro while being a major offensive support.

The major pressure of the thief comes after a good steal setup. DA’s Serpent’s touch&&Lotus Poison combo makes sure you win the HP treade leaving no room for proper counter pressure. Other than this, Improvisation is neglecting a high chunk of damage indirectly, due to the stolen items are heal or control themed and make you less exposed. The reference from consume plasma comes here. Having inmprov obviously enchances the changes to stolen skills especially consume plasma resistance duration vs meta mesmer. Mug isn’t only a burst damage source it covers the whole acro regen too.
Having this is already better than running acro imo. But there is obviously more. Panic strike is brutal strong for landing ganks/kills, not to mention mug damage + exposed weakness etc… Losing these matter a LOT for low dmg coefficent weap sets like s/d on wich using acro would actually make sense.

I speculate on a ‘what if we make s/d win over meta mesmer with plasma, acro, withdraw changes’.
sad thing, the mesmer killer build gonna exclude acro

Edit: lets make a ‘Tracer cosplay’ competition for p/p thieves. Best build+look combo wins

Agreed on all accounts here.
I’m still a big advocate of having Cloak and Dagger (dagger #5 for those unaware) to put a Blind on the enemy hit with it. Not only would it help S/D, it’d also go miles for (power) D/D users. I supose the Vulnerability used to be nice for PvE, but now that there’s other classes that can easily reach the 25 cap of it anyway, I don’t see a need for Vulnerability on Cloak and Dagger, a Blind would be much better.
As for Acrobatics… There’s certainly potential for the traitline if it’s going to have a bigger impact in the areas you specified. Aside of that, I think the traitline would benefit of seeing a form of the old “Power of Intertia” trait back (Might on Dodge) and a way of obtaining Resistance as really, just the Plasma (while great) simply doesn’t cut it. I recall that the idea “Guarded Initiation” previously involved Resistance, maybe Anet could reconsider that idea?

What I’d emphasise:
Acrobatics has only got redundant or underpowered traits and doesn’t have more defense than Deadly Arts but at the same time Acro has way less damage and utlity.
S/D was still not made meta despite most people like this set the most.
P/P still has no utility/defense.
Still too much powercreep on the elite specs.

Vornollo.5182:

Agreed on all accounts here.
I’m still a big advocate of having Cloak and Dagger (dagger #5 for those unaware) to put a Blind on the enemy hit with it. Not only would it help S/D, it’d also go miles for (power) D/D users.

Totally agree with that suggestion. The blind on stealth trait helped make D/D viable in WvW back before HoT, but with the new DD trait line, the SA trait line just doesn’t fit like it used to. A blind on CnD would go a long way.

Dahkeus.8243:

Vornollo.5182:

Agreed on all accounts here.
I’m still a big advocate of having Cloak and Dagger (dagger #5 for those unaware) to put a Blind on the enemy hit with it. Not only would it help S/D, it’d also go miles for (power) D/D users.

Totally agree with that suggestion. The blind on stealth trait helped make D/D viable in WvW back before HoT, but with the new DD trait line, the SA trait line just doesn’t fit like it used to. A blind on CnD would go a long way.

Yes, this used to be a feature of the old build, but now it competes with regen in stealth. I played some games as power d/d and it was fun, but it just doesn’t compare to any of our other sets in terms of viability. Off-hand dagger is the perfect place to buff.

Loboling.5293:

Dahkeus.8243:

Vornollo.5182:

Agreed on all accounts here.
I’m still a big advocate of having Cloak and Dagger (dagger #5 for those unaware) to put a Blind on the enemy hit with it. Not only would it help S/D, it’d also go miles for (power) D/D users.

Totally agree with that suggestion. The blind on stealth trait helped make D/D viable in WvW back before HoT, but with the new DD trait line, the SA trait line just doesn’t fit like it used to. A blind on CnD would go a long way.

Yes, this used to be a feature of the old build, but now it competes with regen in stealth. I played some games as power d/d and it was fun, but it just doesn’t compare to any of our other sets in terms of viability. Off-hand dagger is the perfect place to buff.

Blind-on-stealth was viable for any off-hand dagger build (i.e. D/D, P/D, and S/D). Only reason D/D is still viable is due to condi spambotting as is the current GW2 meta. Sadly the other 2 builds, especially S/D suffers most from losing out on CnD blind-on-stealth. That was indeed an imperative skill for melee thieves.

In addition to my previous reply, I’d also like to make a case for Sword’s Stealth Attack getting a little buff in one form or another (damage is a lazy way to go about it, but it’d be welcome for sure).
I’ll update this post if I can think of a more interesting way of amping up Tactical Strike without making it stupendously OP.

Vornollo.5182:

Sword’s Stealth Attack getting a little buff in one form or another

i suggested to buff damage and give 1boonsteal before patch. They decided to buff larcenous instead.

How about another blind and another boon steal via TS? Make S/D the King of blinds and boon stealing and actually valuable to a party.

Imo sword stealth can be pretty effective with “impacting disruption” running S/P.

Mizu Misa.8730:

Imo sword stealth can be pretty effective with “impacting disruption” running S/P.

The issue is we shouldn’t need a broken trait like Impacting Disruption to actually do significant damage or have a strong effect on combat.

So let me clear this up a bit

You want s/d Acro thief who is near invincible, to get increased damage so they can have everything in one build…

I don’t even..

..Kitten it

throw hands in air and leaves

(side note: how are you losing to meta builds on a s/d acro thief? Ele vs this particular build will result in a stalemate, he can neither kill you or you him. though every other meta build you can 1vs1. )

Highlie.7641:

So let me clear this up a bit

You want s/d Acro thief who is near invincible, to get increased damage so they can have everything in one build…

I don’t even..

..Kitten it

throw hands in air and leaves

(side note: how are you losing to meta builds on a s/d acro thief? Ele vs this particular build will result in a stalemate, he can neither kill you or you him. though every other meta build you can 1vs1. )

u ok?
what?
i mean u probably commented in the wrong topic.

Vornollo.5182:

Agreed on all accounts here.
…
As for Acrobatics… There’s certainly potential for the traitline if it’s going to have a bigger impact in the areas you specified. Aside of that, I think the traitline would benefit of seeing a form of the old “Power of Intertia” trait back (Might on Dodge)

…

I like the idea on might on dodge. It basically makes acro more about building up momentum in fights that last longer, rather than the bursty specs with D/P or others in DA.

The balance of Boonsteal on S/D needs to be thoug of in perspective of future elite spec balance (*cough*boon inflation)

How would people “fix impacting disruption”?
The main problem is also the powercreeped elite specs, I can see the trait getting an internal cooldown thoug. What I like about it is how rewarding it makes hitting interupts, I’d hate to see that go away.

@Highly
Atm it’s not hard to stalemate a ele on thief. But I still feel pathetic considering the amount of effort it takes for me to stay alive vs. the Ele…

Mizu Misa.8730:

Vornollo.5182:

Agreed on all accounts here.
…
As for Acrobatics… There’s certainly potential for the traitline if it’s going to have a bigger impact in the areas you specified. Aside of that, I think the traitline would benefit of seeing a form of the old “Power of Intertia” trait back (Might on Dodge)

…

I like the idea on might on dodge. It basically makes acro more about building up momentum in fights that last longer, rather than the bursty specs with D/P or others in DA.

The balance of Boonsteal on S/D needs to be thoug of in perspective of future elite spec balance (*cough*boon inflation)

How would people “fix impacting disruption”?
The main problem is also the powercreeped elite specs, I can see the trait getting an internal cooldown thoug. What I like about it is how rewarding it makes hitting interupts, I’d hate to see that go away.

@Highly
Atm it’s not hard to stalemate a ele on thief. But I still feel pathetic considering the amount of effort it takes for me to stay alive vs. the Ele…

Yeah acro used to do that which gave it a cool playstyle but anet though at the time that running around with perma 5 might was too much so they dumped it. It’d be cool to see it make a return and possibly bring s/d into the meta agin.

I honestly think s/d has a pretty decent balance on boonsteal right now considering it sacrifices the blind and stealth of d/p and has to be able to go toe to toe with other specs. However if it goes any higher then we may have an issue.

Impacting disruption could be “fixed” by giving it a 50% damage reduction (4k is too much for such a skilless passive) and adding a 5 sec cd to it. If it’s still too much then reduce the scaling but it should be fine after those changes

Yeah, if base damage on some ele stuff gets looked at then hopefully we won’t have to try so hard just to stalemate a cleric healbot…

What I think the issue is that daredevil trait line is too good for nearly every build. Da/cs/tri d/p vs da/acro/tri s/d use to be a lot better match up but now that d/p has the same amount of dodges as s/d, this is where it falls short imo. I don’t think buffing acro will do anything at this point as traited brawlers tendancies and vigor from bountiful theft is already more then enough dodges and that’s not including signet of agility. The only real way I think is to do something with x/d side of things, A lot of people suggested adding blind on cnd aoe or not and then we have dancing dagger too… I don’t like to add more power cream to this but what else can be done to it to make it viable.