Guild Wars 2

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Jasher.6580:

I know you. I spoke with you in Team Speak one night when you were “teaching” me about Necromancers.

Obviously you weren’t one of my better students, since I tend to remember them.

Well I play a Mesmer, and I’m ranked in the top 400. I’m not the best player in the world, but I’m not terrible and I know more than a little about my class. Mesmers are NOT in a good spot right now.

Jasher.6580:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Jasher.6580:

I know you. I spoke with you in Team Speak one night when you were “teaching” me about Necromancers.

Obviously you weren’t one of my better students, since I tend to remember them.

Well I play a Mesmer, and I’m ranked in the top 400. I’m not the best player in the world, but I’m not terrible and I know more than a little about my class. Mesmers are NOT in a good spot right now.

I can prove to you that they are ingame.

Also, never point to rank as a viable argument. Ranking in the game is broken, and tends to be based more upon luck than anything, and most of the players that point to their rank for viability tend to not know what they speak of.

Just here to say my opinion and provide my feedback to any topic devs appear to pay attention to. I’ve said my piece and so did you. You feel mesmers are totally fine currently, and I do not.

Its not just the general population around the boards that agree mesmers are low tier in tourney and so do top teams apparently because not a single Mesmer was used. In addition to the supporting comments by top players in these said teams of feeling like a liability when using a mesmer.

I’m gonna respect the OP and not continue the discussion.

Don’t waste your time Jasher. He made the same offer to someone in the necro forum when trying to argue that dhuumfire builds were not optimal for tpvp. He got someone else to fight a duel for him, that person lost horribly, he fired massive batteries of excuses and dropped out of sight for a few weeks.

Altroll, how you doing on that soloqueue leaderboard?

Noince.7364:

Just here to say my opinion and provide my feedback to any topic devs appear to pay attention to. I’ve said my piece and so did you. You feel mesmers are totally fine currently, and I do not.

Its not just the general population around the boards that agree mesmers are low tier in tourney and so do top teams apparently because not a single Mesmer was used. In addition to the supporting comments by top players in these said teams of feeling like a liability when using a mesmer.

I’m gonna respect the OP and not continue the discussion.

And I would disagree with 90% of the things these boards say. Though I’m glad you took a mature route and not tried to go “udun no wat u talk bout, u suk” on me. Commendable.

Regardless, Mesmers are in a fine place, but the current meta revolves around Necromancers, and certain Necromancer builds are direct counters to certain Mesmer builds. Therefore people automatically believe Mesmer is completely utterly unviable, when that is simply not the case.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Jasher.6580:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Jasher.6580:

I know you. I spoke with you in Team Speak one night when you were “teaching” me about Necromancers.

Obviously you weren’t one of my better students, since I tend to remember them.

Well I play a Mesmer, and I’m ranked in the top 400. I’m not the best player in the world, but I’m not terrible and I know more than a little about my class. Mesmers are NOT in a good spot right now.

I can prove to you that they are ingame.

Also, never point to rank as a viable argument. Ranking in the game is broken, and tends to be based more upon luck than anything, and most of the players that point to their rank for viability tend to not know what they speak of.

Whatever. Obviously you have some hidden agenda. I’m done responding to you. I’ll leave you to continue to troll the current state of Mesmers and every other sensible Mesmer worth their salt.

Mammoth.1975:

Don’t waste your time Jasher. He made the same offer to someone in the necro forum when trying to argue that dhuumfire builds were not optimal for tpvp. He got someone else to fight a duel for him, that person lost horribly, he fired massive batteries of excuses and dropped out of sight for a few weeks.

Altroll, how you doing on that soloqueue leaderboard?

You’re a shining example of what is wrong with the community. I challenged the person to test his skill against 5 of my builds. The very first build he fought was the worst 1v1 build I had on the list, one that doesn’t even have any sustained capability on it’s own, since it was a control build, not a damage build/survivability build.

Regardless, you’ve got a reaction out of me, so I can say well done. Though I really should ignore you, something about your arguments just make me want to slap you in the face with a book repeatedly. They’re so passive-aggressive skeptical and illogical. You’re so immune to reason it’s like I’m staring at a scientific marvel.

So you’re #1 on the solo leaderboards right? Because the top players are all doing it wrong iirc, but premades were holding you down, which is why you were in the 60% bracket on the team boards.

Jasher.6580:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Regardless, Mesmers are in a fine place, but the current meta revolves around Necromancers, and certain Necromancer builds are direct counters to certain Mesmer builds. Therefore people automatically believe Mesmer is completely utterly unviable, when that is simply not the case.

I feel dumb for responding, but I must respond to this…

Let’s get rid of the Necro condi spam meta… and turn back the hands of time. Which builds are viable for Mesmer in the high end competitive meta?

Oh that’s right Shatter… Sword/Focus. What else? Phantasm? NO!, Condi? NO!, Bunker? NO!… that’s right Shatter.

One build. One. 1. Uno.

Even if we got rid of the current meta Mesmers would still only have one build. One. How is that Mesmer’s being in a good spot? And if you mention crappy non viable builds like Phantasm and Retaliation Bunker as being a possibility in any meta then you are a joke and a terrible player.

GS Phantasmal is viable, it’s also the current roaming meta for Mesmer, and if you disagree with me, then you aren’t as familiar with Mesmer as you think you are. Shatter is viable, though significantly underused in today’s meta. Prismatic Condition was also made very powerful, but the stealth unfortunately makes it unviable. So yes, 2 builds. I agree, that’s pathetic. If you want to complain about build variety, then fine. However, Mesmer is still viable. Since they provide a burst and utility combination no other class can.

Yes, I agree, Mesmer’s build variety sucks, but that’s not grounds to say Mesmer sucks.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Jasher.6580:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Regardless, Mesmers are in a fine place, but the current meta revolves around Necromancers, and certain Necromancer builds are direct counters to certain Mesmer builds. Therefore people automatically believe Mesmer is completely utterly unviable, when that is simply not the case.

I feel dumb for responding, but I must respond to this…

Let’s get rid of the Necro condi spam meta… and turn back the hands of time. Which builds are viable for Mesmer in the high end competitive meta?

Oh that’s right Shatter… Sword/Focus. What else? Phantasm? NO!, Condi? NO!, Bunker? NO!… that’s right Shatter.

One build. One. 1. Uno.

Even if we got rid of the current meta Mesmers would still only have one build. One. How is that Mesmer’s being in a good spot? And if you mention crappy non viable builds like Phantasm and Retaliation Bunker as being a possibility in any meta then you are a joke and a terrible player.

GS Phantasmal is viable, it’s also the current roaming meta, and if you disagree with me, then you aren’t as familiar with Mesmer as you think you are. Shatter is viable, though significantly underused in today’s meta. Prismatic Condition was also made very powerful, but the stealth unfortunately makes it unviable. So yes, 2 builds. I agree, that’s pathetic. If you want to complain about build variety, then fine. However, Mesmer is still viable. Since they provide a burst and utility combination no other class can.

Yes, I agree, Mesmer’s build variety sucks, but that’s not grounds to say Mesmer sucks.

GS Phantasm build is a joke. If you play against a good team, you may as well 4/5. I can’t take you seriously anymore. Thanks for the confirmation.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Jasher.6580:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Jasher.6580:

I know you. I spoke with you in Team Speak one night when you were “teaching” me about Necromancers.

Obviously you weren’t one of my better students, since I tend to remember them.

Well I play a Mesmer, and I’m ranked in the top 400. I’m not the best player in the world, but I’m not terrible and I know more than a little about my class. Mesmers are NOT in a good spot right now.

I can prove to you that they are ingame.

Also, never point to rank as a viable argument. Ranking in the game is broken, and tends to be based more upon luck than anything, and most of the players that point to their rank for viability tend to not know what they speak of.

I am not on the leader boards nor do I care about it I am a hard core theory crafter of mesmer builds and have been since I started playing mesmer and myself and other mesmers that are actually legitimately versed in all builds of the mesmer and their viability in team compositions for tournaments. These people (Pyro/Chaosarchangel/Xeph/Jasher/Osicat (best known mesmer in game to mesmers). Are all in agreement that mesmer is in a not so great spot. So congrats on using a mesmer build that has been the standard since beta’s. Here is a cookie. Most however will agree that mesmer is not viable in the current meta using any build. That is the sad truth.

Jasher.6580:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Jasher.6580:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Regardless, Mesmers are in a fine place, but the current meta revolves around Necromancers, and certain Necromancer builds are direct counters to certain Mesmer builds. Therefore people automatically believe Mesmer is completely utterly unviable, when that is simply not the case.

I feel dumb for responding, but I must respond to this…

Let’s get rid of the Necro condi spam meta… and turn back the hands of time. Which builds are viable for Mesmer in the high end competitive meta?

Oh that’s right Shatter… Sword/Focus. What else? Phantasm? NO!, Condi? NO!, Bunker? NO!… that’s right Shatter.

One build. One. 1. Uno.

Even if we got rid of the current meta Mesmers would still only have one build. One. How is that Mesmer’s being in a good spot? And if you mention crappy non viable builds like Phantasm and Retaliation Bunker as being a possibility in any meta then you are a joke and a terrible player.

GS Phantasmal is viable, it’s also the current roaming meta, and if you disagree with me, then you aren’t as familiar with Mesmer as you think you are. Shatter is viable, though significantly underused in today’s meta. Prismatic Condition was also made very powerful, but the stealth unfortunately makes it unviable. So yes, 2 builds. I agree, that’s pathetic. If you want to complain about build variety, then fine. However, Mesmer is still viable. Since they provide a burst and utility combination no other class can.

Yes, I agree, Mesmer’s build variety sucks, but that’s not grounds to say Mesmer sucks.

GS Phantasm build is a joke. If you play against a good team, you may as well 4/5. I can’t take you seriously anymore. Thanks for the confirmation.

Thanks for the meaningless argument. If you want tips on how to use Mesmer, let me know ingame, I’ll help you out.

jportell.2197:

I am not on the leader boards nor do I care about it I am a hard core theory crafter of mesmer builds and have been since I started playing mesmer and myself and other mesmers that are actually legitimately versed in all builds of the mesmer and their viability in team compositions for tournaments. These people (Pyro/Chaosarchangel/Xeph/Jasher/Osicat (best known mesmer in game to mesmers). Are all in agreement that mesmer is in a not so great spot. So congrats on using a mesmer build that has been the standard since beta’s. Here is a cookie. Most however will agree that mesmer is not viable in the current meta using any build. That is the sad truth.

Compared to what? Necromancer? NO class is as strong as Necromancer currently, because Necromancer is overpowered.

Mesmer is fine, it’s strong, viable, it does it’s job well. Don’t say that Mesmer sucks or is bad when your comparison are 2 broken classes. Mesmer easily topples Warrior, Thief, Guardian, and Engineer in numerous ways. The only thing I see, is that Mesmer lacks build variety. Period. That’s not grounds to say it sucks.

As I said, Mesmer seems weak because the top 2 meta-defining classes are simply overpowered. It really isn’t though.

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ Class diversity: The community also seems to feel that Warriors are in a good place right now in PvP. That’s 7 classes. You could make a case that Mesmers have a hard time in a hard condition meta, and I think a lot of people would agree with you. They have counters to conditions, but a lot of players don’t like to run those in standard Mesmer setups.

@ Balance: Perception of balance is always changing, so we’ll continue to try to make sure all classes have good options!

Just have to quote you, cause it looks like you forget about elementalists.

yes, warriors are in a good spot, but That´s not 7 classes, it´s 6 classes. Elementalists defense is aweful and they shouldnt be build around high bursts wasting everything they have trying to oneshot someone just to become useless after this attempt. Ele no.6 abilities are the worst in game, same with elite.

Blackjack.5621:

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ Class diversity: The community also seems to feel that Warriors are in a good place right now in PvP. That’s 7 classes. You could make a case that Mesmers have a hard time in a hard condition meta, and I think a lot of people would agree with you. They have counters to conditions, but a lot of players don’t like to run those in standard Mesmer setups.

@ Balance: Perception of balance is always changing, so we’ll continue to try to make sure all classes have good options!

Just have to quote you, cause it looks like you forget about elementalists.

yes, warriors are in a good spot, but That´s not 7 classes, it´s 6 classes. Elementalists defense is aweful and they shouldnt be build around high bursts wasting everything they have trying to oneshot someone just to become useless after this attempt. Ele no.6 abilities are the worst in game, same with elite.

There are two eles in that picture. I’m not saying eles are fine, just pointing out that you may have misunderstood him.

you are not saying they are fine, but I dont trust those red guys anymore, so I just want to make sure

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Jasher.6580:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Jasher.6580:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Regardless, Mesmers are in a fine place, but the current meta revolves around Necromancers, and certain Necromancer builds are direct counters to certain Mesmer builds. Therefore people automatically believe Mesmer is completely utterly unviable, when that is simply not the case.

I feel dumb for responding, but I must respond to this…

Let’s get rid of the Necro condi spam meta… and turn back the hands of time. Which builds are viable for Mesmer in the high end competitive meta?

Oh that’s right Shatter… Sword/Focus. What else? Phantasm? NO!, Condi? NO!, Bunker? NO!… that’s right Shatter.

One build. One. 1. Uno.

Even if we got rid of the current meta Mesmers would still only have one build. One. How is that Mesmer’s being in a good spot? And if you mention crappy non viable builds like Phantasm and Retaliation Bunker as being a possibility in any meta then you are a joke and a terrible player.

GS Phantasmal is viable, it’s also the current roaming meta, and if you disagree with me, then you aren’t as familiar with Mesmer as you think you are. Shatter is viable, though significantly underused in today’s meta. Prismatic Condition was also made very powerful, but the stealth unfortunately makes it unviable. So yes, 2 builds. I agree, that’s pathetic. If you want to complain about build variety, then fine. However, Mesmer is still viable. Since they provide a burst and utility combination no other class can.

Yes, I agree, Mesmer’s build variety sucks, but that’s not grounds to say Mesmer sucks.

GS Phantasm build is a joke. If you play against a good team, you may as well 4/5. I can’t take you seriously anymore. Thanks for the confirmation.

Thanks for the meaningless argument. If you want tips on how to use Mesmer, let me know ingame, I’ll help you out.

jportell.2197:

I am not on the leader boards nor do I care about it I am a hard core theory crafter of mesmer builds and have been since I started playing mesmer and myself and other mesmers that are actually legitimately versed in all builds of the mesmer and their viability in team compositions for tournaments. These people (Pyro/Chaosarchangel/Xeph/Jasher/Osicat (best known mesmer in game to mesmers). Are all in agreement that mesmer is in a not so great spot. So congrats on using a mesmer build that has been the standard since beta’s. Here is a cookie. Most however will agree that mesmer is not viable in the current meta using any build. That is the sad truth.

Compared to what? Necromancer? NO class is as strong as Necromancer currently, because Necromancer is overpowered.

Mesmer is fine, it’s strong, viable, it does it’s job well. Don’t say that Mesmer sucks or is bad when your comparison are 2 broken classes. Mesmer easily topples Warrior, Thief, Guardian, and Engineer in numerous ways. The only thing I see, is that Mesmer lacks build variety. Period. That’s not grounds to say it sucks.

As I said, Mesmer seems weak because the top 2 meta-defining classes are simply overpowered. It really isn’t though.

Except when all other classes can find a way to work within that meta of those two OP classes EXCEPT mesmer. See the difference here? mesmer does not have any chance in this meta. Literally every other class is still fulfilling a role and eles are having the hardest time after mesmer. Please stop saying mesmer is fine. Mesme was on the edge before this meta hit and now its just toast.

They do, actually. Sigil of Purity, knowing how to avoid some of the condition spam. I last for very long times in group fights with my Mesmer. Even longer than my Necro.

On the note of anet’s plan for pvp. Ask them to fix their EULA:

“While participating in Plaver-vs-Player (PvP) gameplay, you will not participate in any form of match manipulation. Match manipulation is defined as any action taken to fix or manipulate the outcome of a match or alter or manipulate the rankings or ratings of the ladder. This also includes disrupting other people’s game experience by not actively participating in matches in good faith, a.k.a leeching.

In-game Infractions

The following will result in either a temporary account suspension or permanent account termination, depending upon the severity of the matter:

Engaging in PvP match manipulation, disrupting a PvP match by not actively playing in good faith, or any other form of PvP griefing, exploitation, or abuse"

While I agree that this is perfectly sensible, since syncers, afk players, and leavers are ruining the game for everyone else playing, it needs to be changed since anet evidently does not operate by these rules.

I completely agree with OP’s post except the class diversity thing.
Just nerf spirit rangers, and give warriors a bit more damage but less tankyness and it will be fine.
Definitely add 24h decay.
When you fix the matchmaking issue you should really reset the leaderboard because it’s quite flawed now.

Sidenote: I loved how in the Original Guildwars you saw the skill icon of the skill your opponent is casting instead of animations one shall never see since they all look the same , are asuran, or running a medium/lower setting.

Now to figure out what people are playing you have to spectate/hotjoin or get killed.

24h decay is too much. Unless it was a conditional decay. For example, if you have less than 20-30 tournaments played, you decay every 24h. If you have less than 100, you decay weekly. If you have over 100-200, you decay every two weeks, because by that point, your score should be stable and reliable enough, and not require a fast decay.

About stun warriors (and interrupt mesmers, if they are ever to pop up someday in the future), I think stability is too available at the moment. Some of its skills should have their cooldown increased, and other compete with alternative viable options. That beid said, I think warriors can stun-lock for way too long. This makes the game unfun unless you’re overloaded with stun breakers, at which point they trivialize the warrior. I feel balance here still needs to be fine-tuned a slight bit. I don’t think such a build should range from unfunly dominating to completely pointless just because of the abudance of stun-breakers and stability.

JonathanSharp.7094:

You could make a case that Mesmers have a hard time in a hard condition meta, and I think a lot of people would agree with you. They have counters to conditions, but a lot of players don’t like to run those in standard Mesmer setups.

You sir… .Perhaps you should try to run those builds (cleanse on mantras and/or shatter cleanse) and taste some of your own advices. Instead everytime i meet you in a tournament match you’re on your necromanser.

Besides the “condi” meta that you want to keep as well as push the other metas, is completely bad and has the lowest skill floor since its all about spamming them, there is no depth in WHICH condition i should use at WHICH exact time, no risk since you can do it from far, and most of the condi is RNG burning from a simple trait which people can’t even react against, people just spam those shots and suddenly they apply heaps amount of burning damage. The state of the game after the patch has never been so terrible and i’m sure 80% of the community including the people who play those “meta classes” would agree.

The only condi class, semi-balanced and fun to play is engineer.
Necro has 1 main viable build which does everything, hard cc, hard dps and now hard survivability.
Don’t even get me started or rangers.
Guardians has been a must in every single competitive team since release – so you think that’s balanced right?
Thiefs have some room for build diversity but they’re mainly funneled into one build which has everything in one skill which they can spam mindlessly – high damage, boon stripping, evade at the same time, no cooldown or risk in using it as many times you want.
Elementalists also probably one class with some build diversity cept for staff, but got completely disregarded due necro/engineer/sd thief/ spirit ranger/guardian setup being godly in all situations, in all scales 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 or 5v5. Hell the winning team in PAX NA had what? 2 rangers? Yeah that’s fun to watch, a whole bunch of AI pets doing the heavy lifting.
Warriors also semi balanced probably one of the best designed class atm due their telegraphed skills which every class should have in order to see nice counter plays. But also mainly funneled now into a 1v1 role due the massive opness of the condi meta (were also brought viable due berserk stance mainly).
I’ll also not even comment on mesmers, we all and their grandmothers know what’s wrong with mesmers which is: no build diversity, essentially mesmers are FINE/OK within balance but since others are out of hand they also got no room.

Mesmer is fine.

Condition Mesmer (i dont know the build name) is really strong.

They constantly dissapear and teleport while giving you a lot of conditions.

Phantom mesmer hits like a truck and kill you with not even see the real one.

I dont see really a bad profession, all of them are good . . . the problem is that some classes tanky-condition are too strong right now.

Necromancer, spirit ranger, condi mesmer, engi (stupid 5 mine hit 1 shot kill and with burn) to me are the kittene.

Is so sad how the most easy mechanic (condi AOE spam) is the most reward.

jportell.2197:

@J. Sharp-Mesmers have some counters to conditions but when specced completely to counter conditions they are doing that and nothing else. That is the issue we are coming across in this meta. Classes are able to use conditions and clear them. Or counter them and maintain a relative resistance to them while still doing something decent for the team.

Right now mesmers cannot both use counters to conditions and still be effective for their team. The CD on nullfield was a nice start but mesmers still need some sort of overhaul when it comes to considering how they counter conditions compared to others. It’s not that players don’t like to run those things in standard mesmer builds. It is once the mesmer starts running those things they are taking away from the effectiveness of their intended role. Necros/Engis/Warr/Rangers/Guards/Thieves are able to decently deal with conditions and still fulfill their team role.

agreed. i’ve tried to implement pretty much everything that can cure conditions. traited torch, nullfield, arcane, the conditions that get removed on shatter. i even tried mantra, but unfortunately mantras are very hard to use with all the interupts and i havent found the right mantra build yet that makes me wanna spec into it.

i am working on a sorta reflection build, but with that my dps is way to low in order to kill anything. i might try my triforce from wvw, but don’t know yet if it will work in spvp.

saVdoom.2067:

JonathanSharp.7094:

You could make a case that Mesmers have a hard time in a hard condition meta, and I think a lot of people would agree with you. They have counters to conditions, but a lot of players don’t like to run those in standard Mesmer setups.

You sir… .Perhaps you should try to run those builds (cleanse on mantras and/or shatter cleanse) and taste some of your own advices. Instead everytime i meet you in a tournament match you’re on your necromanser.

oh uh…..he only plays necro?no wonder mesmer keeps getting nerfed. necros hate mesmer….go hide guys, we are doomed!

on a serious note. i really hope the balance team plays all classes in spvp and wvw. sometimes it does feel a little like they balance only based on numbers and not on actual experience they had while playing.

mantras are simply not viable.

What happens is that mesmers right now are kind of “balanced” but the problem is that conditions are out of control, and classes like the necro, engi or ranger have very strong conditions so in consecuence this classes are dominating the game, mesmers are not very good at condition applications but they are not bad either, the problem are the classes i mentioned too much condition acces and the core of condition mechanics are broken, to make conditions effective you only need condition damage and thats it, not like power where you need to invest in 3 stats (power, crit chance and crit damage), so as people can see we have bunkering characters dealing tons of condition damage thanks to shamans ammulet, and if you invest heavily on condition offense you are NUKING with conditions, and i mean bursting people with condis it can not be a part of game mechanics conditions are supposused to pressure in time not to burst people down.

Solution: condi damage gets a stat that reduces its damage like power has armor/toughnes, condi damage gets a boon that reduces the damage of conditions do, just like protection, tone down the damage of all the types of conditions, then allow conditions to crit.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Noince.7364:

Just here to say my opinion and provide my feedback to any topic devs appear to pay attention to. I’ve said my piece and so did you. You feel mesmers are totally fine currently, and I do not.

Its not just the general population around the boards that agree mesmers are low tier in tourney and so do top teams apparently because not a single Mesmer was used. In addition to the supporting comments by top players in these said teams of feeling like a liability when using a mesmer.

I’m gonna respect the OP and not continue the discussion.

And I would disagree with 90% of the things these boards say. Though I’m glad you took a mature route and not tried to go “udun no wat u talk bout, u suk” on me. Commendable.

Regardless, Mesmers are in a fine place, but the current meta revolves around Necromancers, and certain Necromancer builds are direct counters to certain Mesmer builds. Therefore people automatically believe Mesmer is completely utterly unviable, when that is simply not the case.

I gotta ask, what do you expect? You are right where the current meta revolves around so what would happen nerfs to the cond? I’d suspect there will be some, but not really enough to solve the over all problem, and if its tweaked to much and we go back a meta.

Problem is for the most part jp’s dev response was also right, in the sense that mesmers can’t really run counter condi and be all that effective solo, 1v1(tpvp), or for a team. Even if you could argue they can do ok, there is clearly something better to fill the slot.

The meta has to move forward not backwards, condi isn’t going anywhere what needs to change is classes be brought in line with the current.

Engies, Rangers, Necros, good warriors. Necros and Rangers being obvious hard counters aside (which is stupid rock paper scissor crap I’d like to see less off), these take wayyy to long to kill for it to be viable in a cap point type game, and other than engie the other classes I mentioned can out sustain the burst. In the case of necro and ranger putting more condi than possible to clense then death.

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ MMR: We’re working on a fix for the grouping issue you point out in picture 1. This fix should also help to alleviate some of the queue issue as well.

@ Class diversity: I’ve also seen games (referring to your pics) with a ton of Rangers, or a ton of Thieves, or too many Warriors, or a ton of bunker Guardians. In your pic of the top players, you see 6 of the 8 classes. The community also seems to feel that Warriors are in a good place right now in PvP. That’s 7 classes. You could make a case that Mesmers have a hard time in a hard condition meta, and I think a lot of people would agree with you. They have counters to conditions, but a lot of players don’t like to run those in standard Mesmer setups.

@ Balance: Perception of balance is always changing, so we’ll continue to try to make sure all classes have good options!

It’s nice to get a response and know that things are being looked at thoroughly, solo queue being out with such a restricted meta makes me anxious for proper polish, fingers crossed for the 20th!!!

id love some answers too tbh…why am I always in these pics o.0

stunningstyles.7054:

id love some answers too tbh…why am I always in these pics o.0

The fix is on its way apparently no eta tho. The matchmaking groups together a group in similar mmr then faces them off with a group of the next lowest mmr sometimes 245+ ranks below. So us at the top 20 then some noobs

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Darnis.4056:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Shatter. Basic Shatter build. 20/20/0/0/30

Anything else?

Yes, what utilities weaponset amulet, are you running, and what is your basic strategy most of the game?..

Berserker’s Ammy. Runes of Divinity. Staff (Sigil of Purity), Sword (Sigil of Air) Pistol (Sigil of Force). Ether Feast, Decoy, Portal/Blink, Null Field, Moa/Mass Invis. My primary strategy in group confrontations is to fight all targets at once. I’ll deploy clones for each opponent, and Daze/MindWrack AoE them during the fight, until I determine whom is more susceptible to a full shatter. I then shatter them, eliminating them from the fight, and generally leave my team to mop up, I place a portal, and then head to far point. In 1v1s, I’ll focus all of my attention on keeping up 25 vulnerability for full shatters. Some opponents cannot be beaten in this way, such as Spirit Rangers, as they’ll simply outheal my primary damage. So I pick my targets carefully. Terrormancers will always beat Shatter Mesmers, and always have. So you cannot expect to win some 1v1s, but that doesn’t mean Mesmer is unviable. They’re perfectly fine.

Whats the reason to take mesmer over another spirit ranger, necro, guard, engi, warrior or s/d thief or whatever though? A build is either top build or unviable, there is no middle ground in this type game. It’s like taking a tower over a queen in Chess.

Mesmers are superior to Engineer, Warrior, and Thief. The meta is condition based, if the meta switched to White magic right now: Elementalist and Mesmer would be at the top.

By the way, you were referring to a ‘rook’ from Chess, and 2 rooks can easily be more useful than a single queen, if used properly.

saVdoom.2067:

JonathanSharp.7094:

You could make a case that Mesmers have a hard time in a hard condition meta, and I think a lot of people would agree with you. They have counters to conditions, but a lot of players don’t like to run those in standard Mesmer setups.

You sir… .Perhaps you should try to run those builds (cleanse on mantras and/or shatter cleanse) and taste some of your own advices. Instead everytime i meet you in a tournament match you’re on your necromanser.

Besides the “condi” meta that you want to keep as well as push the other metas, is completely bad and has the lowest skill floor since its all about spamming them, there is no depth in WHICH condition i should use at WHICH exact time, no risk since you can do it from far, and most of the condi is RNG burning from a simple trait which people can’t even react against, people just spam those shots and suddenly they apply heaps amount of burning damage. The state of the game after the patch has never been so terrible and i’m sure 80% of the community including the people who play those “meta classes” would agree.

The only condi class, semi-balanced and fun to play is engineer.
Necro has 1 main viable build which does everything, hard cc, hard dps and now hard survivability.
Don’t even get me started or rangers.
Guardians has been a must in every single competitive team since release – so you think that’s balanced right?
Thiefs have some room for build diversity but they’re mainly funneled into one build which has everything in one skill which they can spam mindlessly – high damage, boon stripping, evade at the same time, no cooldown or risk in using it as many times you want.
Elementalists also probably one class with some build diversity cept for staff, but got completely disregarded due necro/engineer/sd thief/ spirit ranger/guardian setup being godly in all situations, in all scales 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 or 5v5. Hell the winning team in PAX NA had what? 2 rangers? Yeah that’s fun to watch, a whole bunch of AI pets doing the heavy lifting.
Warriors also semi balanced probably one of the best designed class atm due their telegraphed skills which every class should have in order to see nice counter plays. But also mainly funneled now into a 1v1 role due the massive opness of the condi meta (were also brought viable due berserk stance mainly).
I’ll also not even comment on mesmers, we all and their grandmothers know what’s wrong with mesmers which is: no build diversity, essentially mesmers are FINE/OK within balance but since others are out of hand they also got no room.

I definitely like you man. Anet 0 – 1 saVdoom. Anyway, good summary.

Hawatak.8049:

I definitely like you man. Anet 0 – 1 saVdoom. Anyway, good summary.

Hawatak, you do realize almost everything saVdoom said was incorrect, right?

Actually I think you’re wrong TheMightyAltroll. He’s making some really good points, we’re seeing them for now more than a month and I guess I’m not the only one agreeing. But I would like your opinion on the subject.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Hawatak.8049:

I definitely like you man. Anet 0 – 1 saVdoom. Anyway, good summary.

Hawatak, you do realize almost everything saVdoom said was incorrect, right?

Incorrect according to you alone. Most higher end players, people who main certain classes and people that care about the overall balance of the game find what saVdoom says to be pretty in line with reality. Please go troll elsewhere it is in your name after all.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Hawatak.8049:

I definitely like you man. Anet 0 – 1 saVdoom. Anyway, good summary.

Hawatak, you do realize almost everything saVdoom said was incorrect, right?

Which parts?

+1 to saVdoom from me. I think he sums it up pretty well.

Very well, I shall respond to his false/moot arguments.

saVdoom.2067:

You sir… .Perhaps you should try to run those builds (cleanse on mantras and/or shatter cleanse) and taste some of your own advices. Instead everytime i meet you in a tournament match you’re on your necromanser

So I’m assuming you stalk him endlessly? What kind of toothpaste does he use?

saVdoom.2067:

Besides the “condi” meta that you want to keep as well as push the other metas, is completely bad and has the lowest skill floor since its all about spamming them

I could say that White Damage is simply spamming autoattack or certain utilities too.

saVdoom.2067:

there is no depth in WHICH condition i should use at WHICH exact time, no risk since you can do it from far, and most of the condi is RNG burning from a simple trait which people can’t even react against, people just spam those shots and suddenly they apply heaps amount of burning damage. The state of the game after the patch has never been so terrible and i’m sure 80% of the community including the people who play those “meta classes” would agree.

Let’s see… if they activate a heal and have high healing power, you might poison. If they’re very mobile, or have just used their heal/CDs, you might Chill. I can react against burning quite well, condition cleansing is fun. What weapons can you spam burning with? I’d like to know, so I can spam them. Also, ‘heaps’ of burning is moot, since burning doesn’t intensify. The patch did infact ruin alot of things, but your complaints are not about things that were ruined.

saVdoom.2067:

The only condi class, semi-balanced and fun to play is engineer.

Moot, and opinionated.

saVdoom.2067:

Necro has 1 main viable build which does everything, hard cc, hard dps and now hard survivability.

That is completely false. Necromancer condition meta builds tend to be one of the glassiest in the game. You obviously have never used Necromancer. Besides, I could argue Shatter Mesmer can do all of that as well.

saVdoom.2067:

Don’t even get me started or rangers.

Oh, please do tell us how Rangers can spew fire out of their ears.

Yes, Rangers are overpowered in today’s meta. However, I doubt you know explicitly why.

saVdoom.2067:

Guardians has been a must in every single competitive team since release – so you think that’s balanced right?

Because they’re one of the best bunker/support classes in the game? And balanced? We can’t have that…

saVdoom.2067:

Thiefs have some room for build diversity but they’re mainly funneled into one build which has everything in one skill which they can spam mindlessly – high damage, boon stripping, evade at the same time, no cooldown or risk in using it as many times you want.

Wait wait wait… they have build diversity, but then you say they are funneled into one build? Which is it?

I’d say that S/D is a bit too strong, if that’s what you’re referring to, but no risk? That’s a lie.

saVdoom.2067:

Elementalists also probably one class with some build diversity cept for staff, but got completely disregarded due necro/engineer/sd thief/ spirit ranger/guardian setup being godly in all situations, in all scales 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 or 5v5.

Elementalist has build diversity? WHERE!?

Necro, Engi, Guardian, Thief, godly in all situations? WHERE!?

Spirit Ranger is godly in all situations? Kind of.

Know what class really is good for all situations? Mesmer. Good at roaming, best at 1v1, and has the utility to aid team in any situation.

saVdoom.2067:

Hell the winning team in PAX NA had what? 2 rangers? Yeah that’s fun to watch, a whole bunch of AI pets doing the heavy lifting.

Then whine to them about lacking class diversity. I know a few classes that could easily do Ranger’s job just as well.

saVdoom.2067:

Warriors also semi balanced probably one of the best designed class atm due their telegraphed skills which every class should have in order to see nice counter plays. But also mainly funneled now into a 1v1 role due the massive opness of the condi meta (were also brought viable due berserk stance mainly).

Warrior. Balanced. Best designed class because of telegraphed skills. Warriors good at 1v1 due to conditions.

http://cdn.meme.li/i/o6yzg.jpg

saVdoom.2067:

I’ll also not even comment on mesmers, we all and their grandmothers know what’s wrong with mesmers which is: no build diversity, essentially mesmers are FINE/OK within balance but since others are out of hand they also got no room.

So… Mesmers are terrible… because they have very little build diversity… and they’re imbalanced , because they’re balanced.

Reesha.7901:

+1 to saVdoom from me. I think he sums it up pretty well.

Indeed. Well, I’m pretty excited what happenes after the PAX tourny.

Nice mighty but I stopped at the troll toothpaste remark.

Same for me I won’t answer to such a troll. Play the game before coming to the forums.

Hawatak.8049:

Same for me I won’t answer to such a troll. Play the game before coming to the forums.

I answered, and stated counter arguments to all of his statements. Any dumb statements he made I replied with dumb answers, such as accusing a developer of only using Necromancer. If you aren’t going to read, or say anything regarding the topic YOU asked me for, then don’t ask for it.

JonathanSharp.7094:

You could make a case that Mesmers have a hard time in a hard condition meta, and I think a lot of people would agree with you. They have counters to conditions, but a lot of players don’t like to run those in standard Mesmer setups.

The wording in this actually worries me a bit. The ‘like’ part.
I wonder if he honestly thinks, the only reason mesmers are struggling a bit is because we don’t ‘like’ to spec into condition cleansing traits, or don’t ‘like’ to run mantra/Null Field….

@troll
You’ve been discussing mesmer/builds the whole time in this thread, use PMs pls
And just to clarify if you even read what he said or not;
" Instead everytime i meet you in a tournament match you’re on your necromanser"
So your saying w/e he says is false/moot because,? you don’t have a reason just trolling.
Take your discussions about the class to their class forums or PMs thanks

Is there some reason cast bars are not viable? Is it a UI issue or the fact that skills go to fast, and/or the lack of a global c/d make it overly spammable or unviable?

that being said are global c/ds considered bad for some reason? I’d feel like it’d be a pain in PvE but would it not give a bit more play against the more spammy natrue of certain combos for PvP?

What are the design intentions regaurding these two, and why have they been deterred from being implemented?

@daishi
Castbars take your eye away from the ingame actions. Anet does not like it yet they haven’t enough clear animations for the current skills to technically do this aside from the warrior. Asura Lol 0.o. GCDs Im guessing they would take away from the responsiveness feel of the games.

Mega bump.

Totally agree.

Gets very frustrating at times!

Daishi.6027:

Is there some reason cast bars are not viable? Is it a UI issue or the fact that skills go to fast, and/or the lack of a global c/d make it overly spammable or unviable?

that being said are global c/ds considered bad for some reason? I’d feel like it’d be a pain in PvE but would it not give a bit more play against the more spammy natrue of certain combos for PvP?

What are the design intentions regaurding these two, and why have they been deterred from being implemented?

I wish there were castbars like in GW. I think it’d help a little for Mesmers wanting to play rupts like in GW1. But even with a castbar, causing an interrupt wouldn’t be too big of an issue because in a few more seconds, they can recast the same skill. I’d like to see increased CD’s on interrupted skills for Mesmers, personally.

@copestetic
I thought when the game was coming out and how they were hyping up the UI that they would allow you to turn cast bars on or off.

But you wouldn’t have to use them because of the ingame animations (warrior) yet the other classes have far less and on asuras it doesn’t even matter because you would need 1st person and to be in close combat to see any animation from their tiny hands O.o

I wouldn’t mind temp cast bars until they figure out how to change asura/add more animations to other classes.

I agree with Altroll to many points.
Most of the complains about the current meta are complete bullkitten, expecially when people are calling this the worse meta ever.

Spam
People say that this meta is bad because it encourage spam, like this is the only meta when spam is encouraged… LOL
I mean, have you started playing GW2 after the june patch or what? This game has Always been all about mindless spam of combos and rotations, so is the current meta. All Necromancers do is repeating their condition rotation, just like a D/D thief instagibed people with the backstab combo, a D/D elementalist bursted down someone, a fresh air S/D ele instaburst someone or a shatter mesmer did their shatter combo.
The only true spam build has been Shortbow ranger, which they only had to press 1 and spamm all of their other skills and they aren’t even that popular in the current meta.
Then, all of a sudden, the meta is so spammy that none can live with anymore. Yeah, right…

Condition meta kills variety
Another big misconception about the current meta. This has been by far the meta with the best profession variety we’ve ever had.
Despite what people say, joining SoloQ or doing tournaments, you can see a modest representations of every profession.
Of course there are more Ranger and Necros than the other profession, but where is the difference with 4-5 months ago, when every match had at least 2 mesmers and 2 thieves? Metas of the past have been way, way more unhealthy than the current one. Some profession were completely left out while some other professions were as FotM as Necros and Rangers are now or even worse. So, stop this lie about lack of game variety and whatever and remember how the past metas has been.

AI driven combat
Also, all of sudden, also AI driven combat has become an horrible problem of the current meta, despite the fact that this is the meta with least contribution of AI this game had.
The only AI presence in this meta are spirits, but, guess what, spirits does not deal damage. They offer only a passive bonus, nothing different from a walking and killable signet or trait.
Past metas, with pets and phantasms mesmer, were incredibly AI driven, where really AI played instead of the player (IZerker hitting for 4-5k+, pets hitting for 3-4k+) but none complained about that back then.
Funny thing is that AI has become a problem right when the meta hardly counters AI entities due to AoE conditions…

Also, a big LOL to “JSharp play only Necromancer”. You have been complaining about necromancer all of this long, how can a dev check if a profession is truly OP and how they have to change it without playing it a lot of time?