Guild Wars 2

You play it, you have seen others play it and you know they need it, lets raise the awareness of buffing S/D Thief’s. We have stood around to long waiting for this buff needed to the S/D spec, so help me push this issue till “ANET” responds!

Well, as a necro, i find S/D thieves to be WAY harder than d/p thieves, d/p for me is a much easier 1v1 win. Sword/dagger however, however is much rarer thing for me to see, but when i do see them, it’s kittening brutal IMO. S/D thieves are the ones who have made me consider rolling a teef

Hmm. Hmmmmm…. No.

I agree that it needs some tweaks but as Acandis said, SA is the problem being to kitten cheese and making it looks weak.

Acandis.3250:

Just because it isn’t broken as Shadow Arts d/p doesn’t mean it’s not strong. Imo S/D is perfectly fine. Just requires a bit more neurons than the dodge spamming bots that previously played this build are limited to.

Pretty much this, they all want it reverted back to the dodge spamming ridiculousness it was before when it’s really actually not bad , just overshadowed by SA d/p cheese at the moment. SA is cancer, and always has been but now you can use 3 trait lines so it didn’t take much common sense to realize it would end up making d/p more broken.

I like the feline grace buff to 4 seconds, albeit it should be 5secs imo to put it in line with other rewarding dodge mechanics for example ranger’s successful evade trait is adept and it gives 5seconds base vigor.

I must yet see a dumb d/p user that would go SA.

Kenmei.7138:

I must yet see a dumb d/p user that would go SA.

Apparently you don’t watch tournaments at all. Most DP thieves are taking shadow arts. Including previous WTS winners. But what do they know? They should listen to random forum guy and stop being, “dumb.”

Acandis.3250:

Just because it isn’t broken as Shadow Arts d/p doesn’t mean it’s not strong. Imo S/D is perfectly fine. Just requires a bit more neurons than the dodge spamming bots that previously played this build are limited to.

you don’t play theif at even a mid tier level for saying something like that. S/D is sub par BY FAR

blitzkrieg.2451:

Acandis.3250:

Just because it isn’t broken as Shadow Arts d/p doesn’t mean it’s not strong. Imo S/D is perfectly fine. Just requires a bit more neurons than the dodge spamming bots that previously played this build are limited to.

Pretty much this, they all want it reverted back to the dodge spamming ridiculousness it was before when it’s really actually not bad , just overshadowed by SA d/p cheese at the moment. SA is cancer, and always has been but now you can use 3 trait lines so it didn’t take much common sense to realize it would end up making d/p more broken.

I like the feline grace buff to 4 seconds, albeit it should be 5secs imo to put it in line with other rewarding dodge mechanics for example ranger’s successful evade trait is adept and it gives 5seconds base vigor.

only noobs want the dodge spamming back… s/d defensive is fine…. ITS THE DAMAGE… S/d does no damage… far less damage than other classes DEFENSIVE builds… and s/d is suppose to be a dps build… lmao.

Drennon.7190:

Kenmei.7138:

I must yet see a dumb d/p user that would go SA.

Apparently you don’t watch tournaments at all. Most DP thieves are taking shadow arts. Including previous WTS winners. But what do they know? They should listen to random forum guy and stop being, “dumb.”

there are a lot of people on the forums who don’t play at a higher tier and don’t understand

@Michael Acandis plays with and against some of the most top tier players in the game and his assumption is absolutely correct.

d/p SA overshadows s/d in damage and defensives. S/d isn’t weak, nor is the damage weak , it’s just much worse than d/p SA because it’s OP as hell at the moment.

blitzkrieg.2451:

d/p SA overshadows s/d in damage and defensives. S/d isn’t weak, nor is the damage weak , it’s just much worse than d/p SA because it’s OP as hell at the moment.

SA is OP only in 1v1s. In group play it is pretty balanced, basically in line with all most other classes have (aside from maybe Ranger). And even in 1v1s it is less OP than PU.

It’s simple, if you buff s/d dmg it overshadows d/p obviously then you’ll get the same thing you had pre-patch. Do you want that back? Because it looks like most thieves do, then you’ll just get nerfed yet again some other way. Thieves were broken pre-patch , you have to think of another way to balance it or else we’re just moving backwards or going in circles.

blitzkrieg.2451:

It’s simple, if you buff s/d dmg it overshadows d/p obviously then you’ll get the same thing you had pre-patch. Do you want that back? Because it looks like most thieves do, then you’ll just get nerfed yet again some other way. Thieves were broken pre-patch , you have to think of another way to balance it or else we’re just moving backwards or going in circles.

They shouldn’t buff the damage, just undo some of the utility nerfs. Larcenous Strike could remove 2 boons again since it no longer rolls over without landing Flanking Strike. Tactical Strike could be reverted to a 2 second daze since daze and stun no longer round up when extended. Cloak and Dagger could blind the target on successful landing (this would help D/D also). There’s a lot they could do to bring S/D back up without buffing damage. They could also lower the auto chain damage while increasing the speed so that they maintain the same DPS but allow you to proc the effects of crippling strike more reliably and more often.

Edit: If they lowered the damage and sped up the autoattack by removing some of the pre/post cast, this would help the set immensely as Flanking Strike wouldn’t get queued behind the autos as badly which sometimes gets you killed.
Edit 2: If the entire chain was 2 seconds total (hey the same length as the reverted TS, weakness, and cripple…interesting) they could make the multipliers 0.65>0.65>1.05 and maintain the same DPS and ratios of damage.

blitzkrieg.2451:

It’s simple, if you buff s/d dmg it overshadows d/p obviously then you’ll get the same thing you had pre-patch. Do you want that back? Because it looks like most thieves do, then you’ll just get nerfed yet again some other way. Thieves were broken pre-patch , you have to think of another way to balance it or else we’re just moving backwards or going in circles.

No, it won’t overshadow D/P and it will actually provide some build diversity to the Thief’s side. Plus, before the June 23rd patch, most thieves were running D/P 60206 with Vampirism – even Sizer was.

D/P with SA provides higher burst and better group support due to Refuge/Blinding Powder, but very weak point presence, to the point that you can’t reliably hold any point against ANY class unless you’re facing a terrible opponent with a useless build.

S/D used to provide smaller burst, worse group support, but better mobility (better access to swiftness) and better point presence. You could contest a point for a decent amount of time against any class with an S/D build before the patch.

So, all in all, it’s all there. The nerf to Fire+Air sigils made it so that S/D got nerfed even further because its burst has been lowered.

These are all FACTS, you can’t deny any of the above. If you do, you clearly don’t know how this game or the thief class works.

Everyone except anet knows thief is a little bit lacking right now. Any buff would help.
I still can’t wrap my mind around the flame/air sigil nerf. It really hit thief.

hihey.1075:

blitzkrieg.2451:

It’s simple, if you buff s/d dmg it overshadows d/p obviously then you’ll get the same thing you had pre-patch. Do you want that back? Because it looks like most thieves do, then you’ll just get nerfed yet again some other way. Thieves were broken pre-patch , you have to think of another way to balance it or else we’re just moving backwards or going in circles.

No, it won’t overshadow D/P and it will actually provide some build diversity to the Thief’s side. Plus, before the June 23rd patch, most thieves were running D/P 60206 with Vampirism – even Sizer was.

D/P with SA provides higher burst and better group support due to Refuge/Blinding Powder, but very weak point presence, to the point that you can’t reliably hold any point against ANY class unless you’re facing a terrible opponent with a useless build.

S/D used to provide smaller burst, worse group support, but better mobility (better access to swiftness) and better point presence. You could contest a point for a decent amount of time against any class with an S/D build before the patch.

So, all in all, it’s all there. The nerf to Fire+Air sigils made it so that S/D got nerfed even further because its burst has been lowered.

These are all FACTS, you can’t deny any of the above. If you do, you clearly don’t know how this game or the thief class works.

actually sizer ran pack runes, but besides that which is irrelevant.

just so you know. thief was never meant to contest or hold points, you’re foolish in assuming that it being worse at doing just that is why thieves are in a worse spot right now.

s/d is fine, it’s just d/p is amazingly strong right now why take s/d when you can have everything in one build – the dmg again, is fine on s/d it’s just that other classes still are broken like cele ele … once ele is nerfed, and it will be , and you buff s/d’s dmg and then you also revert the sigil (if they’re not intended of course) imagine the power creep that will occur.

s/d isn’t fine because of one class, d/d ele cele , that’s literally the only reason. so buff the class and make it as broken as it was pre-patch , for one class that can out sustain it and have burning uptime at the same time?

thief is still as good as always has been for it’s role: burst dmg and move out, refuge for revives or burst coordination , shortbow … shortbow will never leave thief because of it’s core reason for being in a team. decapping points and outrotating the other team. look at magic toker, amazinggggggg rotation presence , amazing at taking out the correct classes. thief is underpowered? the top team is dominating and is arguably carried by toker’s outrotations. this isn’t because of the weaponset he runs between s/d or d/p it’s because of shortbow, and the tools he has to assist his team with or without SA and of course shortbow for outrotating and map presence. this has always been thief’s specific role in top tier tourney play.

please have some common sense on these issues

Mesmer’s hatter blind being fixed was a big relief with feline grace buff! If not every meta build would shlt blind condition, then s/d would feel more in line.

blitzkrieg.2451:

just so you know. thief was never meant to contest or hold points, you’re foolish in assuming that it being worse at doing just that is why thieves are in a worse spot right now.

noone wants thiefs as a point contester. you might missunderstand the point Sir. This post is about the S/D build. as you and many others pointed out this particular build lacks on burst damage compared to other thief/meser/etc builds, therefore it has to stay in the brawl to dish out some pressure. This is all becouse it’s main source of damage are autuhits + sigil procs. The problem with all this is, that the sword autohit is not designed to the builds playstyle. 2pure medium damage slow hits, then a big stab with 2useful condis for low duration. The problem comes with the slow hits, it not only makes the thief vulnerable vs. aegis and blind, but it resets every time you cast something else, thisway rarely getting to the final big hit. A good improvement would be to make the first hit like dagger’s: 2xhit for half damage, let the second hit inflict the cripple(this helps ti hit the third) and the third the weakness.
the second problem is its sustain. In this big of a power creap out there a viable build needs some healing. Seriously… most specs got built in passive regens or skillbar heals… we got what? Assassin’s reward as a GM trait. That trait really could use some love, if it would heal for 2x the amount(140hp/s) it still would succk as a GM. what about giving it condi clence every 5 init used and 2x the heals as regeneration?? this would help vs the insane blind+burn-spam of the meta.