Guild Wars 2

Lol people keep saying DPS guard hard counters thief when the current PS meta thief actually does pretty well vs medi DPS guard . DPS guard only counters D/P crit strikes with HiS heal . Also … the old S/D build was always good against guard. So the hard counter argument is pretty much an l2p issue. I play this game rather casually and I don’t feel hard countered by guards on the PS meta thief. So the only thing that can succefully shut down a thief is another thief, that’s why people ask for other zerkers to be more viable. Its a reasonable suggestion.

In theory other zerker classes could actually beat a thief 1v1 but in a real match you can’t do anything vs stealth and thief can just wait in stealth until you have no cooldowns and one shot you if you have a zerker ammy. So unless you are a bunker or a thief yourself you can’t do anything vs stealth. The duration obviously needs a nerf, thieves don’t need to get revealed or anything because that would be too punishing and some builds can already faceroll the keyboard and be succeful so just lowering or capping stealth to 5 secs would solve a lot of problems. Cuz even fresh air ele could actually beat a thief if they couldn’t refuge for a century and come back once the ele already used all his CD’s.

philheat.3956:

Thieves share the same iniative bar with double weapons set and They have 33% naturally initiative regen.

So chill could work on 33% instead of 66% for thieves, basically cancelling the initiative regeneration when They have chill.

That’s not how it works…If chill affected intiative, it would regenerate 66% slower, it doesn’t mean thief would be losing initiative. Thieves regenerate one initiative per second, therefore with chill it would be one initiative per 1.66 sec. It does seem too punishing, though.

glock.6590:

Lol people keep saying DPS guard hard counters thief when the current PS meta thief actually does pretty well vs medi DPS guard . DPS guard only counters D/P crit strikes with HiS heal . Also … the old S/D build was always good against guard. So the hard counter argument is pretty much an l2p issue. I play this game rather casually and I don’t feel hard countered by guards on the PS meta thief. So the only thing that can succefully shut down a thief is another thief, that’s why people ask for other zerkers to be more viable. Its a reasonable suggestion.

In theory other zerker classes could actually beat a thief 1v1 but in a real match you can’t do anything vs stealth and thief can just wait in stealth until you have no cooldowns and one shot you if you have a zerker ammy. So unless you are a bunker or a thief yourself you can’t do anything vs stealth. The duration obviously needs a nerf, thieves don’t need to get revealed or anything because that would be too punishing and some builds can already faceroll the keyboard and be succeful so just lowering or capping stealth to 5 secs would solve a lot of problems. Cuz even fresh air ele could actually beat a thief if they couldn’t refuge for a century and come back once the ele already used all his CD’s.

These my friends is a perfect example of pragmatism, the whole thread could have not been explained in a more concise and logical manner than this.

Beautiful.

glock.6590:

Lol people keep saying DPS guard hard counters thief when the current PS meta thief actually does pretty well vs medi DPS guard

It does well to a certain degree. If it has luck with Improvisation trait (RNG trait) and Vamp Proc still availabl, then yes. Otherwise 1 Hammer Ring and GG.

I play this game rather casually and I don’t feel hard countered by guards on the PS meta thief. So the only thing that can succefully shut down a thief is another thief, that’s why people ask for other zerkers to be more viable. Its a reasonable suggestion.

Casually, face decent DPS guards not wasting all their cooldown on 1 Steal. 1 Mighty Blow after wep swap and half of your HP is simply gone. It would be reasonable if it was reasonable. Not demanding so much as they do now (longer reveal + reveal after stealth + max cap on stealth). You only play it casually so I dont expect you to understand this.

In theory other zerker classes could actually beat a thief 1v1 but in a real match you can’t do anything vs stealth and thief can just wait in stealth until you have no cooldowns and one shot you if you have a zerker ammy.

Please show me this godly build that can one-shot.

So unless you are a bunker or a thief yourself you can’t do anything vs stealth.

Yes you can, cap the point. Thief goes stealth? Profit! Or, in a teamfight, which I bet you were gonna use as discussion, have someone peel for you and/or cleanse/heal. If you don’t have it available, search another team.

The duration obviously needs a nerf, thieves don’t need to get revealed or anything because that would be too punishing and some builds can already faceroll the keyboard and be succeful so just lowering or capping stealth to 5 secs would solve a lot of problems.

I agree with you here: cap stealth all u want, wouldn’t really matter for good thieves. But demanding reveal after some time in stealth and longer reveal is too much.

Cuz even fresh air ele could actually beat a thief if they couldn’t refuge for a century and come back once the ele already used all his CD’s.

I said this earlier before; what kind of good thief would waste his SR to take out Fresh Air Ele? It’s better to take down fresh Air by surprise instead of head-on and waste your cd’s. Improvisation is RNG trait, does NOT guarantee you 2nd refuge, even if that was your only utility used. (not many ppl seem to know this)

@Terrorsquad.2349

Terror, you’re wasting your time. These are people who, 3 years into the game, still honestly believe stealth is a strong (So strong that it’s OP) mechanic in capture point format. They are utterly convinced of their position and little will sway them, as is evidenced with most of the posts in this thread.

It’s funny how thieves (actual thief players, not forum warriors who start posts with “As a thief player”, then spout verbal diarrhea that makes it blatantly obvious they have no idea how thief works) never complain about stealth. Even S/D players who have nothing to lose if stealth were nerfed seem to have no problem with it. It’s almost as if being experienced with the thief class gives you insight into how a stealthed thief will play, and allows you to counter it. But it’s not simply a button on a bar that a player can press to beat stealth, so that makes it “impossible to counter”.

To those of you complaining about stealth, even though this will fall on deaf ears I will offer this advice to you. Do what every other player does when they feel another class is impossible to beat; roll that class, run that spec, and see how well you do. Pay attention to what counters you, and mimic it.

If, after trying that, you’re still at a loss for how to counter stealth, it’s possible that GW2 is too complex a game for you, and you might be better served playing something simpler and more straightforward.

If, after trying that, you’re still at a loss for how to counter stealth, it’s possible that GW2 is too complex a game for you, and you might be better served playing something simpler and more straightforward.

This. I can really not believe how ppl can call stealth OP or even need more counterplay to it (inside PvP Conquest).. I’ve barely had any probs vs teams with stealth setups when playing a non-stealth class/build, as I play mostly thief myself. So I know how they work and how they CAN rotate (strategically and mechanically) if they’re decent. Stealth really needs no counterplay.

As said before, I would agree to a max stealth cap but that’s all. Although, I do think thieves should get something small in return for that.

Terrorsquad.2349:

If, after trying that, you’re still at a loss for how to counter stealth, it’s possible that GW2 is too complex a game for you, and you might be better served playing something simpler and more straightforward.

This. I can really not believe how ppl can call stealth OP or even need more counterplay to it (inside PvP Conquest).. I’ve never had any probs vs teams with stealth setups when playing a non-stealth class/build, as I play mostly thief myself. So I know how they work and how they CAN rotate if they’re decent. Stealth really needs no counterplay.

As said before, I would agree to a max stealth cap but that’s all. Although, I do think thieves should get something small in return for that.

Well, I would disagree here. Stealth does need a counterplay, but most people do not realize that it already has a counterplay.

Laraley.7695:

Terrorsquad.2349:

If, after trying that, you’re still at a loss for how to counter stealth, it’s possible that GW2 is too complex a game for you, and you might be better served playing something simpler and more straightforward.

This. I can really not believe how ppl can call stealth OP or even need more counterplay to it (inside PvP Conquest).. I’ve never had any probs vs teams with stealth setups when playing a non-stealth class/build, as I play mostly thief myself. So I know how they work and how they CAN rotate if they’re decent. Stealth really needs no counterplay.

As said before, I would agree to a max stealth cap but that’s all. Although, I do think thieves should get something small in return for that.

Well, I would disagree here. Stealth does need a counterplay, but most people do not realize that it already has a counterplay.

I said it multiple times in my other comments: Stealth has more counterplay than block has. What I tried to say for 10 times in this thread is that it doesnt need more counterplay than it already has. I phrased my last sentence you quoted wrong, just a typo

Terrorsquad.2349:

Laraley.7695:

Terrorsquad.2349:

If, after trying that, you’re still at a loss for how to counter stealth, it’s possible that GW2 is too complex a game for you, and you might be better served playing something simpler and more straightforward.

This. I can really not believe how ppl can call stealth OP or even need more counterplay to it (inside PvP Conquest).. I’ve never had any probs vs teams with stealth setups when playing a non-stealth class/build, as I play mostly thief myself. So I know how they work and how they CAN rotate if they’re decent. Stealth really needs no counterplay.

As said before, I would agree to a max stealth cap but that’s all. Although, I do think thieves should get something small in return for that.

Well, I would disagree here. Stealth does need a counterplay, but most people do not realize that it already has a counterplay.

I said it multiple times in my other comments: Stealth has more counterplay than block has. What I tried to say for 10 times in this thread is that it doesnt need more counterplay than it already has. I phrased my last sentence you quoted wrong, just a typo

I figured, but I’ve read the whole thread and pretty sure someone would go and make a fuss about ‘’stealth needs no counterplay’’ :P

Jekkt.6045:

Cynz.9437:

people complain about stealth in pvp? wat?

thief went to reset? good… you got point, enjoy your match points~

also i love how people cry “omg thief can reset”…. and somehow forget to mention that the moment thief goes ooc their target is also ooc and gets to heal up…

i think it is hilarious to say that thief doesn’t get punished for failed attack… if anything thieves get punished the most for single mistake in game atm….

you don’t reset as a thief. you sit in stealth until crucial skills are off cooldown, like steal or withdraw, and then you go at it again. or you sit out invul skills in stealth, another gimmick that renders other classes’ defensive skills useless. thieves don’t get punished for single mistakes at all. thieves have on demand teleports that can save their kitten s in most situations and make cc useless if you don’t force the 2 stunbreaks before.

thief is also the only class in the game that is unkiteable as they have teleports that are not tied to cooldowns while other classes’ teleports are on a 30-40s cooldown. so if a thief wants to chase you he will do so and you will not get away most of the time.

the only classes that can face a thief are celestial classes that bring self sustain and a mix of direct damage and condition attrition or guardians because they have the needed aoe damage with good sustain and blocks, this will change though as soon as thieves will be able to run 3 traitlines, in fact thieves with vampire runes can already kill guardians because mist form will save them when they eat a mighty blow combo or get trapped by the ring.

the thief’s class design is broken and to fix it they would have to overhaul the whole class which is obviously not gonna happen.

they learned their lesson with energy ressource or why else do revenants have actual cooldowns on their skills + the energy cost.

AMEN

More on topic, the real issue is that D/P is such a strong set that can’t be paired with strong sustain ( given by condi cleanse in stealth and vamp runes invuln+ leech) without losing huge part of its damage.

Air/fire + leech procs give panic strike thief the damage it would lack by going into DA + SA instead of CS

The result is the most OP build this game has ever seen.

Stop complaining about a thief not being able to 1vs1 a cele proff ( something that is not even true if u think of a fight without time constrainsts), thief is not even meant to 1vs1 things.

Thief is no more about skill, it’s just about camping stealth till u get things back on CD, and most of these things are procs ( leeches, panic strike, air/fire, steal, withdraw).

Lame

Lame

Lame

Signed

Ex-thief main from times when u weren’t even planned by your parents.

Laraley.7695:

Sagat.3285:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

insanemaniac.2456:

Cynz.9437:

oh i wanna join too!

make engi kits go on CD if they are chilled D8

already happens. 1.66 secs instead of 1 is quite noticable when you play kit engi a lot.

…and imagine you’re an ele and get your attunements have 16 second cd instead of 10.
Yesterday I downed an engi and ended up with 18 seconds of chill, couldn’t cleanse it for more than half of the duration.That was fun.

Oh no!
I burn all my Cantraps!
I need to rely on signet of restoration to survive so I can’t bring Ether Renewel!
I switch out water right after Engi throws a freeze Grenade!
My Windborne Speed is on CD too!
I didn’t bring a focus for Magnetic Wave!
Because of all the mistakes I made, now I need to waste merely 16 seconds!

Cmon, give me a break. Ele has like 5 times more ways to deal with chills than most of the other classes.

Lol, first of all I was on fresh air, so no I don’t have million condi removals. Second of all, most condi removals are in attunements, if you cannot switch to the attunement, you’re not going to get the cleanse.

I use no cantrips.
Using ER over SoR is the stupidest idea I’ve ever heard. Even staff eles use SoR, because ER is that bad. If you face competenent players it will get interrupted every single time.
It wasn’t nades, it was from downstate. It was a lot of RNG, therefore I couldn’t have predicted it.
I wasn’t on staff.
I had focus, but it was on cooldown.
I didn’t do any mistakes, the only one that could be taken as a mistake was not considering I can end up with so much chill due to RNG. Using Magnetic Wave during a fight is hardly a mistake, then I’m left with one condition removal.

That’s a fresh air issue not every spec can have it all :/ and why use engi downed state when it’s RNG based :/??

Wat. It’s not only fresh air issue. For example mesmer would have even worse time with so much chill.

Why use engi downed state? Wat. You missed the point, being an ele and being affected by chill so much can lead to situations when you’re really really really screwed and die to chill. It’s multiplied by the fact attunements get affected by chill, this shouldn’t happen. And engi down state is not the only thing that can affect large amount of chill. Ice shard Stab is insane, too. If they will be able to use it twice after the rework, then eles will be getting chilled for 20 seconds and that’s insane. Reaper gets tons of chill, too.

My reply was to someone saying how they can be affected by chill when kits go from 1 sec to 1.66 recharge. Ele has it way worse than that, yet it’s the only class that has ’’weapon’’ swaps affected by chill.

Maybe you should get our information up to date. First, that iceshard is the most important thing for thieves against eles. At the right moment under a good condition its THE thing a thief needs to beat an ele. Especially D/D or staff. When the thief fails it, he needs to wait 20sekittenil being able to pressure with it again. Apart from that the developers said that they are reworking the stolen skills (removing the damage-aspect?!). My last information for example is about healing seed from ranger become half duration (double the condition-remove pulse). As a thief you normally don´t stay the full duration in the water field, because of smoke+heartseeker etc, mostly blasting it for heal. So probably the iceshard gonna be on half duration, too. ^^

Terrorsquad.2349:

Laraley.7695:

Terrorsquad.2349:

If, after trying that, you’re still at a loss for how to counter stealth, it’s possible that GW2 is too complex a game for you, and you might be better served playing something simpler and more straightforward.

This. I can really not believe how ppl can call stealth OP or even need more counterplay to it (inside PvP Conquest).. I’ve never had any probs vs teams with stealth setups when playing a non-stealth class/build, as I play mostly thief myself. So I know how they work and how they CAN rotate if they’re decent. Stealth really needs no counterplay.

As said before, I would agree to a max stealth cap but that’s all. Although, I do think thieves should get something small in return for that.

Well, I would disagree here. Stealth does need a counterplay, but most people do not realize that it already has a counterplay.

I said it multiple times in my other comments: Stealth has more counterplay than block has. What I tried to say for 10 times in this thread is that it doesnt need more counterplay than it already has. I phrased my last sentence you quoted wrong, just a typo

Spamming aoe in the last location you saw the thief is a strategy that works only against freshly made thieves..and not even in most case; so i really wonder about what counterplay you’re referring to

Block skills have ample CD : shelter 30s CD, renewing focus 75s CD, aegis 60s CD, arcane shield 75s CD, etc etc..so I fail to see the comparison sorry

Supreme.3164:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Laraley.7695:

Terrorsquad.2349:

If, after trying that, you’re still at a loss for how to counter stealth, it’s possible that GW2 is too complex a game for you, and you might be better served playing something simpler and more straightforward.

This. I can really not believe how ppl can call stealth OP or even need more counterplay to it (inside PvP Conquest).. I’ve never had any probs vs teams with stealth setups when playing a non-stealth class/build, as I play mostly thief myself. So I know how they work and how they CAN rotate if they’re decent. Stealth really needs no counterplay.

As said before, I would agree to a max stealth cap but that’s all. Although, I do think thieves should get something small in return for that.

Well, I would disagree here. Stealth does need a counterplay, but most people do not realize that it already has a counterplay.

I said it multiple times in my other comments: Stealth has more counterplay than block has. What I tried to say for 10 times in this thread is that it doesnt need more counterplay than it already has. I phrased my last sentence you quoted wrong, just a typo

Spamming aoe in the last location you saw the thief is a strategy that works only against freshly made thieves..and not even in most case; so i really wonder about what counterplay you’re referring to

Block skills have ample CD : shelter 30s CD, renewing focus 75s CD, aegis 60s CD, arcane shield 75s CD, etc etc..so I fail to see the comparison sorry

I know you understand what I’m trying to say but you’re just not admitting it. Stealth has more than enough counterplay. Block has.. close to none? Maybe thats why the CD’s

Supreme.3164:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Laraley.7695:

Terrorsquad.2349:

If, after trying that, you’re still at a loss for how to counter stealth, it’s possible that GW2 is too complex a game for you, and you might be better served playing something simpler and more straightforward.

This. I can really not believe how ppl can call stealth OP or even need more counterplay to it (inside PvP Conquest).. I’ve never had any probs vs teams with stealth setups when playing a non-stealth class/build, as I play mostly thief myself. So I know how they work and how they CAN rotate if they’re decent. Stealth really needs no counterplay.

As said before, I would agree to a max stealth cap but that’s all. Although, I do think thieves should get something small in return for that.

Well, I would disagree here. Stealth does need a counterplay, but most people do not realize that it already has a counterplay.

I said it multiple times in my other comments: Stealth has more counterplay than block has. What I tried to say for 10 times in this thread is that it doesnt need more counterplay than it already has. I phrased my last sentence you quoted wrong, just a typo

Spamming aoe in the last location you saw the thief is a strategy that works only against freshly made thieves..and not even in most case; so i really wonder about what counterplay you’re referring to

… If you think spamming aoe in the last place you saw the thief is the only counter play to stealth no wonder you are having so much trouble countering it.

If you aren’t willing to put the effort in to learn how to counter stealth, you don’t deserve it. Complaining on the forums until it’s handed to you on a silver platter is a much worse tactic then just learning to play.

As I’ve already said, perhaps GW2 is too complex a game for you.

Lots of nerf thief threads popping up lately.

After the last huge nerfs to S/D and D/P it was basically stated if you are complaining about thieves being OP its a sign you are bad.

Heck didn’t grouch even say that people complaining about thieves need to l2p in one of the last Ready Ups?

evilapprentice.6379:

Supreme.3164:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Laraley.7695:

Terrorsquad.2349:

If, after trying that, you’re still at a loss for how to counter stealth, it’s possible that GW2 is too complex a game for you, and you might be better served playing something simpler and more straightforward.

This. I can really not believe how ppl can call stealth OP or even need more counterplay to it (inside PvP Conquest).. I’ve never had any probs vs teams with stealth setups when playing a non-stealth class/build, as I play mostly thief myself. So I know how they work and how they CAN rotate if they’re decent. Stealth really needs no counterplay.

As said before, I would agree to a max stealth cap but that’s all. Although, I do think thieves should get something small in return for that.

Well, I would disagree here. Stealth does need a counterplay, but most people do not realize that it already has a counterplay.

I said it multiple times in my other comments: Stealth has more counterplay than block has. What I tried to say for 10 times in this thread is that it doesnt need more counterplay than it already has. I phrased my last sentence you quoted wrong, just a typo

Spamming aoe in the last location you saw the thief is a strategy that works only against freshly made thieves..and not even in most case; so i really wonder about what counterplay you’re referring to

… If you think spamming aoe in the last place you saw the thief is the only counter play to stealth no wonder you are having so much trouble countering it.

If you aren’t willing to put the effort in to learn how to counter stealth, you don’t deserve it. Complaining on the forums until it’s handed to you on a silver platter is a much worse tactic then just learning to play.

As I’ve already said, perhaps GW2 is too complex a game for you.

Stealth has no counter aside random dodging.

That’s why people run thieves in the first place, cuz stealth openers.

Gw2 pvp is “insta down people from stealth” till people realized how strong it is, just look at those Esl games ( where people are not sucky enough to bring 5 celes cuz they’re not even able to push 3 buttons in a row after a stealth stacking), or maybe get better and go play vs such teams.

But please go on defending something that even the best players of this game are complaining about since headstart, do it pls.

Thief nerf request have reached next level solely cuz Panic strike thief is so lame it can’t be beared anymore.

Coronit.9432:

Laraley.7695:

Sagat.3285:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

insanemaniac.2456:

Cynz.9437:

oh i wanna join too!

make engi kits go on CD if they are chilled D8

already happens. 1.66 secs instead of 1 is quite noticable when you play kit engi a lot.

…and imagine you’re an ele and get your attunements have 16 second cd instead of 10.
Yesterday I downed an engi and ended up with 18 seconds of chill, couldn’t cleanse it for more than half of the duration.That was fun.

Oh no!
I burn all my Cantraps!
I need to rely on signet of restoration to survive so I can’t bring Ether Renewel!
I switch out water right after Engi throws a freeze Grenade!
My Windborne Speed is on CD too!
I didn’t bring a focus for Magnetic Wave!
Because of all the mistakes I made, now I need to waste merely 16 seconds!

Cmon, give me a break. Ele has like 5 times more ways to deal with chills than most of the other classes.

Lol, first of all I was on fresh air, so no I don’t have million condi removals. Second of all, most condi removals are in attunements, if you cannot switch to the attunement, you’re not going to get the cleanse.

I use no cantrips.
Using ER over SoR is the stupidest idea I’ve ever heard. Even staff eles use SoR, because ER is that bad. If you face competenent players it will get interrupted every single time.
It wasn’t nades, it was from downstate. It was a lot of RNG, therefore I couldn’t have predicted it.
I wasn’t on staff.
I had focus, but it was on cooldown.
I didn’t do any mistakes, the only one that could be taken as a mistake was not considering I can end up with so much chill due to RNG. Using Magnetic Wave during a fight is hardly a mistake, then I’m left with one condition removal.

That’s a fresh air issue not every spec can have it all :/ and why use engi downed state when it’s RNG based :/??

Wat. It’s not only fresh air issue. For example mesmer would have even worse time with so much chill.

Why use engi downed state? Wat. You missed the point, being an ele and being affected by chill so much can lead to situations when you’re really really really screwed and die to chill. It’s multiplied by the fact attunements get affected by chill, this shouldn’t happen. And engi down state is not the only thing that can affect large amount of chill. Ice shard Stab is insane, too. If they will be able to use it twice after the rework, then eles will be getting chilled for 20 seconds and that’s insane. Reaper gets tons of chill, too.

My reply was to someone saying how they can be affected by chill when kits go from 1 sec to 1.66 recharge. Ele has it way worse than that, yet it’s the only class that has ’’weapon’’ swaps affected by chill.

Maybe you should get our information up to date. First, that iceshard is the most important thing for thieves against eles. At the right moment under a good condition its THE thing a thief needs to beat an ele. Especially D/D or staff. When the thief fails it, he needs to wait 20sekittenil being able to pressure with it again. Apart from that the developers said that they are reworking the stolen skills (removing the damage-aspect?!). My last information for example is about healing seed from ranger become half duration (double the condition-remove pulse). As a thief you normally don´t stay the full duration in the water field, because of smoke+heartseeker etc, mostly blasting it for heal. So probably the iceshard gonna be on half duration, too. ^^

Maybe you should read again what I said. Thief doesn’t need that amount of chill to beat fresh air. If you can only pressure the ele when you have steal on, then you should probably reconsider your gameplay. They said they’re reworking it, but they didn’t say how. Chill doesn’t do damage, they didn’t say if they’re nerfing the duration either. Even 10 second of chill is deadly for ele.

Mrbig.8019:

More on topic, the real issue is that D/P is such a strong set that can’t be paired with strong sustain ( given by condi cleanse in stealth and vamp runes invuln+ leech) without losing huge part of its damage.

It does lose dps due the loss of Fury uptime.

Air/fire + leech procs give panic strike thief the damage it would lack by going into DA + SA instead of CS

That’s not Thief’s fault, thats sigils + rune balance problem.

The result is the most OP build this game has ever seen

Shoutbow and Slick Shoes? Anyone?

Stop complaining about a thief not being able to 1vs1 a cele proff ( something that is not even true if u think of a fight without time constrainsts), thief is not even meant to 1vs1 things.

Exactly, and thief is not meant to even fights either. Only to +1. So if you get killed by thief, its because you were outnumbered.

Thief is no more about skill, it’s just about camping stealth till u get things back on CD, and most of these things are procs ( leeches, panic strike, air/fire, steal, withdraw).

• Leech = Vamp Rune
• Panic Strike = Dedicated Traitline (6)
• Air/Fire = Sigil RnG procs
• Steal = Not a proc, is a skill we actually press and decide when to use
• Withdraw = Not a proc, is a skill we actually press and decide when to use

As we can see in the list above, gathered from your post, the problem lies in Sigils and Runes, not the Thief itself.

Signed

Ex-thief main from times when u weren’t even planned by your parents.

Right.. Your post clearly shows that.

Mrbig.8019:

More on topic, the real issue is that D/P is such a strong set that can’t be paired with strong sustain ( given by condi cleanse in stealth and vamp runes invuln+ leech) without losing huge part of its damage.

Air/fire + leech procs give panic strike thief the damage it would lack by going into DA + SA instead of CS

The result is the most OP build this game has ever seen.

Stop complaining about a thief not being able to 1vs1 a cele proff ( something that is not even true if u think of a fight without time constrainsts), thief is not even meant to 1vs1 things.

Thief is no more about skill, it’s just about camping stealth till u get things back on CD, and most of these things are procs ( leeches, panic strike, air/fire, steal, withdraw).

Lame

Lame

Lame

Signed

Ex-thief main from times when u weren’t even planned by your parents.

Well said big

Mrbig.8019:

evilapprentice.6379:

Supreme.3164:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Laraley.7695:

Terrorsquad.2349:

If, after trying that, you’re still at a loss for how to counter stealth, it’s possible that GW2 is too complex a game for you, and you might be better served playing something simpler and more straightforward.

This. I can really not believe how ppl can call stealth OP or even need more counterplay to it (inside PvP Conquest).. I’ve never had any probs vs teams with stealth setups when playing a non-stealth class/build, as I play mostly thief myself. So I know how they work and how they CAN rotate if they’re decent. Stealth really needs no counterplay.

As said before, I would agree to a max stealth cap but that’s all. Although, I do think thieves should get something small in return for that.

Well, I would disagree here. Stealth does need a counterplay, but most people do not realize that it already has a counterplay.

I said it multiple times in my other comments: Stealth has more counterplay than block has. What I tried to say for 10 times in this thread is that it doesnt need more counterplay than it already has. I phrased my last sentence you quoted wrong, just a typo

Spamming aoe in the last location you saw the thief is a strategy that works only against freshly made thieves..and not even in most case; so i really wonder about what counterplay you’re referring to

… If you think spamming aoe in the last place you saw the thief is the only counter play to stealth no wonder you are having so much trouble countering it.

If you aren’t willing to put the effort in to learn how to counter stealth, you don’t deserve it. Complaining on the forums until it’s handed to you on a silver platter is a much worse tactic then just learning to play.

As I’ve already said, perhaps GW2 is too complex a game for you.

Stealth has no counter aside random dodging.

That’s why people run thieves in the first place, cuz stealth openers.

Gw2 pvp is “insta down people from stealth” till people realized how strong it is, just look at those Esl games ( where people are not sucky enough to bring 5 celes cuz they’re not even able to push 3 buttons in a row after a stealth stacking), or maybe get better and go play vs such teams.

But please go on defending something that even the best players of this game are complaining about since headstart, do it pls.

Thief nerf request have reached next level solely cuz Panic strike thief is so lame it can’t be beared anymore.

Stealth opens (entirely due to the thief profession) are the most skill-less and lame thing in gw2. There is zero counter play by definition. And it makes thief the only class which is basically required in even mid level pvp. Even in low level pvp, even in solo queue, the team with a thief seems massively advantaged imo. At organised level its game breaking because of stealth spikes. But even in unorganised high-end play it is game breaking because its unkitable. Positioning doesnt work on it. Nothing works on it.

I find it funny people think stealth opens take skill. Literally stand together and mass stealth. Then pick and target and do a 3 button combo each. So easy. Beyond easy in fact. There is no reaction to events. Just a 3 button combo each player does and it means death. Then nuke the body with spam (another thing thief is good at) and the whole game snowballs from then on.

Terrorsquad.4802:

Mrbig.8019:

More on topic, the real issue is that D/P is such a strong set that can’t be paired with strong sustain ( given by condi cleanse in stealth and vamp runes invuln+ leech) without losing huge part of its damage.

It does lose dps due the loss of Fury uptime.

Air/fire + leech procs give panic strike thief the damage it would lack by going into DA + SA instead of CS

That’s not Thief’s fault, thats sigils + rune balance problem.

The result is the most OP build this game has ever seen

Shoutbow and Slick Shoes? Anyone?

Stop complaining about a thief not being able to 1vs1 a cele proff ( something that is not even true if u think of a fight without time constrainsts), thief is not even meant to 1vs1 things.

Exactly, and thief is not meant to even fights either. Only to +1. So if you get killed by thief, its because you were outnumbered.

Thief is no more about skill, it’s just about camping stealth till u get things back on CD, and most of these things are procs ( leeches, panic strike, air/fire, steal, withdraw).

• Leech = Vamp Rune
• Panic Strike = Dedicated Traitline (6)
• Air/Fire = Sigil RnG procs
• Steal = Not a proc, is a skill we actually press and decide when to use
• Withdraw = Not a proc, is a skill we actually press and decide when to use

As we can see in the list above, gathered from your post, the problem lies in Sigils and Runes, not the Thief itself.

Signed

Ex-thief main from times when u weren’t even planned by your parents.

Right.. Your post clearly shows that.

The only class comparable to thief is shoutbow. Thief warps the game due to its stealth insta spikes with no counter play. It pushes out or makes it hard to play many squishy specs that people might otherwise play. Shoutbow has the same effect in that it forces out all condition builds from the meta.

But thief is more oppressive. Not sure which is easier to play. Both have been picked up and played well by the wider community which is when you know something is too easy. When people are able to reroll to d/p thief and shoutbow in a day or two and become 95% as good as thief mains of their level then there is an issue.

The counter play to stealth/reset is based within the fact that you can not hold the node nor will you provide DPS support to your group while doing so. Effectively, any fight is now -1 for that team while the thief is in stealth. Secondly, counter play to thieves is a bunker build. Having protection, weakness, and blocks available against a thief will negate the spike from stealth. Invuln will also support that to a certain degree.

I dislike this trend about “counter play” as though I should be able to take instant action against other class effects. Sometimes the counter play is a direct result based on the requirements of the class’ abilities and sometimes it is a measure you take ahead of time. It will not be a scenario where a person uses an ability and then I can take a counter step to mitigate it all the time.

Lastly the point of having a thief on the team, as has been said, is to back cap and +1 a fight. I have to wonder if many of these complaints come from PvP solo queue without a good comp to protect against the stealth burst or with sufficient bunkers for nodes. With 5 v 5, there should be enough support to help your glass builds from being bursted down to 0. which is why you cover and peel. If you were a zerk, alone, on point, against a thief. You will have a bad time.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Mrbig.8019:

evilapprentice.6379:

Supreme.3164:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Laraley.7695:

Terrorsquad.2349:

If, after trying that, you’re still at a loss for how to counter stealth, it’s possible that GW2 is too complex a game for you, and you might be better served playing something simpler and more straightforward.

This. I can really not believe how ppl can call stealth OP or even need more counterplay to it (inside PvP Conquest).. I’ve never had any probs vs teams with stealth setups when playing a non-stealth class/build, as I play mostly thief myself. So I know how they work and how they CAN rotate if they’re decent. Stealth really needs no counterplay.

As said before, I would agree to a max stealth cap but that’s all. Although, I do think thieves should get something small in return for that.

Well, I would disagree here. Stealth does need a counterplay, but most people do not realize that it already has a counterplay.

I said it multiple times in my other comments: Stealth has more counterplay than block has. What I tried to say for 10 times in this thread is that it doesnt need more counterplay than it already has. I phrased my last sentence you quoted wrong, just a typo

Spamming aoe in the last location you saw the thief is a strategy that works only against freshly made thieves..and not even in most case; so i really wonder about what counterplay you’re referring to

… If you think spamming aoe in the last place you saw the thief is the only counter play to stealth no wonder you are having so much trouble countering it.

If you aren’t willing to put the effort in to learn how to counter stealth, you don’t deserve it. Complaining on the forums until it’s handed to you on a silver platter is a much worse tactic then just learning to play.

As I’ve already said, perhaps GW2 is too complex a game for you.

Stealth has no counter aside random dodging.

That’s why people run thieves in the first place, cuz stealth openers.

Gw2 pvp is “insta down people from stealth” till people realized how strong it is, just look at those Esl games ( where people are not sucky enough to bring 5 celes cuz they’re not even able to push 3 buttons in a row after a stealth stacking), or maybe get better and go play vs such teams.

But please go on defending something that even the best players of this game are complaining about since headstart, do it pls.

Thief nerf request have reached next level solely cuz Panic strike thief is so lame it can’t be beared anymore.

Stealth opens (entirely due to the thief profession) are the most skill-less and lame thing in gw2. There is zero counter play by definition.

If you honestly believe this, there’s nothing more that can be said. This game is too complex for you. You’d be better off playing something simpler and more straightforward, a game that doesn’t ask its players to figure out things on their own and instead put’s it all in “Push button to counter” form.

Lol Thieves are always so toxic. Can no one get a hint when stealth/mobility classes are complained in EVERY game ever and just as cheesy, typically 1v1 masters (out side of being “forced” onto a circle) and can leave a fight whenever they want. Is it that hard to accept that its just sort of a corny design? Thieves admit themselves that they can just leave and they can 1v2/1v3 and so on, yet when someone calls them out its “L2P, this game is way over your head”…

Thieves like to throw around this buzz-phrase “Risk-Reward”, but here’s the thing. Thief isn’t risk-reward. It just has a higher skill cap. Its squishy, so there are a LOT of bad thieves who keep the class from being nerfed, and a few good thieves who realize they can exploit their tools to counter all of their “risks”, which means it isn’t really a risk, it just means it takes more getting used to. Getting stun locked on a class and having just about NOTHING you can do about it, THAT is a risk, because you can’t cheese your way out of it regardless of your skill level.

Just face it and be honest, playing the assassiny-ninja role is kinda corny and people hate it except people who like being stealthy ninjas OR they are one of the few roles that counter it or use it on their team.

That’s not to say thief couldn’t use buffs in other areas, especially to not get squished in AOE fields and ways to increase thief diversity, because it is a bit boring that spike damage is pretty much all a thief does, but it doesn’t make it any less cheap.

Thief literally breaks the ideals and combat rules of the game with it’s access to several instant skills, very little animation reaction required, you’re supposed to “expect” a steal that poisons, damages, and dazes you that’s instant and used at range and teleports them to you (and with the capability to stealth the thief), and “expect” that a steal will reset their shadow refuge. Never mind that they’re immune to power lock, it’s okay for them to have an instant heal which is supposed to be a no-no, chill doesn’t affect them outside of movement speed which doesn’t matter because they love to teleport. They can teleport up a cliff, so if you’re anything that can’t teleport they can just leave whenever they feel necessary.

Yeah it’s all “cool”, but its also kind of garbage to deal with. Yes they’re squishy, but good people know that they can play around that and there’s very little about “skill” when it comes to people just being out of the fight. The only reason it’s still okay is because thief has no diversity and conquest limits the cheapness a bit.

All that said, I’m not looking forward to 6/0/6/0/6 thieves at all.

End rant. Don’t bother being a typical thief and trying to pick apart my post and posting it on the “nerf thief” thread because I won’t bother responding. I know for a fact many thieves know what they do and love it, who wouldn’t want to lose what they can do, especially in open pvp.

Disclaimer: I don’t hate thief, I don’t want it deleted, I want it rebalanced pretty heavily and for it to have to consider much of the same things that other builds do. And please stop relating Zerker thief to Bruiser builds like it means something.

“stealth has no counter”
meanwhile stealth doesn’t make invulnerable to dmg nor CCs
comon skills that give stealth are interruptable and can’t be used while CCd (besides LR)
refuge is big bull eye for aoe spam
revealed debuff actually exists

yeah sure, no counter….

how many counters are there to block, invuls passive traits? oh wait, none~

@ron: same things can be said about a lot of things in this game not just thieves….

T raw.4658:

Lots of nerf thief threads popping up lately.

After the last huge nerfs to S/D and D/P it was basically stated if you are complaining about thieves being OP its a sign you are bad.

Heck didn’t grouch even say that people complaining about thieves need to l2p in one of the last Ready Ups?

i think the guy who got banned for trolling thief forums got second accnt(s) thanks to sales thats is why all this threads~

and chill not affecting ini isn’t bug but intended, it did during beta and it was terrible so it was removed~

Laraley.7695:

philheat.3956:

Thieves share the same iniative bar with double weapons set and They have 33% naturally initiative regen.

So chill could work on 33% instead of 66% for thieves, basically cancelling the initiative regeneration when They have chill.

That’s not how it works…If chill affected intiative, it would regenerate 66% slower, it doesn’t mean thief would be losing initiative. Thieves regenerate one initiative per second, therefore with chill it would be one initiative per 1.66 sec. It does seem too punishing, though.

For this reason i wrote 33% instead of 66% cuz they use the same ini bar for 2 weapons set.

Basically chill should work in a different way on thief but it should work.

Lol at the thief argument of l2p. I will turn it round of you thieves. If you aren’t just crushing and carrying games as a solo player then you need to l2p. D/P thief is that strong, and so was S/D before d/p. SO if your struggling maybe work on your game lads.

Cynz.9437:

“stealth has no counter”
meanwhile stealth doesn’t make invulnerable to dmg nor CCs
comon skills that give stealth are interruptable and can’t be used while CCd (besides LR)
refuge is big bull eye for aoe spam
revealed debuff actually exists

yeah sure, no counter….

how many counters are there to block, invuls passive traits? oh wait, none~

@ron: same things can be said about a lot of things in this game not just thieves….

What? Mesmer’s have a 1 hit block, we block one BS and then what? Eat all the remaining attacks?

oh wait~ where is our counterplay to that? oh wait, none~

Lordrosicky.5813:

Lol at the thief argument of l2p. I will turn it round of you thieves. If you aren’t just crushing and carrying games as a solo player then you need to l2p. D/P thief is that strong, and so was S/D before d/p. SO if your struggling maybe work on your game lads.

people think thief is weak but it’s not. most thief players are just bad.

seriously bad. like I can kill them on zerker engineer (TC,S,SS) bad.

choovanski.5462:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Lol at the thief argument of l2p. I will turn it round of you thieves. If you aren’t just crushing and carrying games as a solo player then you need to l2p. D/P thief is that strong, and so was S/D before d/p. SO if your struggling maybe work on your game lads.

people think thief is weak but it’s not. most thief players are just bad.

seriously bad. like I can kill them on zerker engineer (TC,S,SS) bad.

I don’t wanna assume but I have never seen any of the thief posters here in the forums in pvp except for Cynz and glock.

Although we argue a lot in the forums I do have respect for these people’s skills.

I have 4k matches but I have never seen these other posters in pvp, must be the MMR? or?

StickerHappy.8052:

choovanski.5462:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Lol at the thief argument of l2p. I will turn it round of you thieves. If you aren’t just crushing and carrying games as a solo player then you need to l2p. D/P thief is that strong, and so was S/D before d/p. SO if your struggling maybe work on your game lads.

people think thief is weak but it’s not. most thief players are just bad.

seriously bad. like I can kill them on zerker engineer (TC,S,SS) bad.

I don’t wanna assume but I have never seen any of the thief posters here in the forums in pvp except for Cynz and glock.

most thieves I encounter in pvp are absolute jokes who can’t blind spam for anything. they will do “smart” things like using whirling axes when I have my hammer out on my warrior. they eat backbreaker every time.

But anyway, ANY Suggestions concerning thieves are always faced with unnecessary or exaggerated arguments.

I think thieves are the new form of #Lebroning

philheat.3956:

Laraley.7695:

philheat.3956:

Thieves share the same iniative bar with double weapons set and They have 33% naturally initiative regen.

So chill could work on 33% instead of 66% for thieves, basically cancelling the initiative regeneration when They have chill.

That’s not how it works…If chill affected intiative, it would regenerate 66% slower, it doesn’t mean thief would be losing initiative. Thieves regenerate one initiative per second, therefore with chill it would be one initiative per 1.66 sec. It does seem too punishing, though.

For this reason i wrote 33% instead of 66% cuz they use the same ini bar for 2 weapons set.

Basically chill should work in a different way on thief but it should work.

I have suggested this many times, but thieves be flopping. lol

I dont care about the numbers or anything just make it affect their weapon skills in any way as long as there is one.

I love how people are calling Thief gamebreaking.
It’s priceless.

Terrorsquad.4802:

I love how people are calling Thief gamebreaking.
It’s priceless.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/006/077/so_good.png

Its not, those people are the same as the thief posters, exaggerating everytime.

But hey, I know you play mesmer, I still think thieves need something to be truly a risk-reward class. People claim they are, but TBH they are not. Shatter mesmer is more risk-reward than thief.

StickerHappy.8052:

Terrorsquad.4802:

I love how people are calling Thief gamebreaking.
It’s priceless.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/006/077/so_good.png

Its not, those people are the same as the thief posters, exaggerating everytime.

But hey, I know you play mesmer, I still think thieves need something to be truly a risk-reward class. People claim they are, but TBH they are not. Shatter mesmer is more risk-reward than thief.

Shatter Mesmer is just not as good in this meta to other zerkers in the meta, right now. That’s why mesmers feel more rewarding and high risk

StickerHappy.8052:

choovanski.5462:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Lol at the thief argument of l2p. I will turn it round of you thieves. If you aren’t just crushing and carrying games as a solo player then you need to l2p. D/P thief is that strong, and so was S/D before d/p. SO if your struggling maybe work on your game lads.

people think thief is weak but it’s not. most thief players are just bad.

seriously bad. like I can kill them on zerker engineer (TC,S,SS) bad.

I don’t wanna assume but I have never seen any of the thief posters here in the forums in pvp except for Cynz and glock.

Although we argue a lot in the forums I do have respect for these people’s skills.

I have 4k matches but I have never seen these other posters in pvp, must be the MMR? or?

Or Region

Terrorsquad.4802:

StickerHappy.8052:

Terrorsquad.4802:

I love how people are calling Thief gamebreaking.
It’s priceless.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/006/077/so_good.png

Its not, those people are the same as the thief posters, exaggerating everytime.

But hey, I know you play mesmer, I still think thieves need something to be truly a risk-reward class. People claim they are, but TBH they are not. Shatter mesmer is more risk-reward than thief.

Shatter Mesmer is just not as good in this meta to other zerkers in the meta, right now. That’s why mesmers feel more rewarding and high risk

Yeap, if we weren’t hunted down by thieves, we would have a place in the meta mostly. Everything that the thief does hard counters mesmers, Stealth, Misses or blocks does not reveal, Blinds (this kills mesmers, blind stops phant casting), Spammable Daze, which again a lot of mesmer skills are easy to interrupt (again phantasms= major source of damage) Instacast skills (cannot be interrupted)

Stolen Item Ecto (all boons for 10 seconds every 20 seconds)

Lordrosicky.5813:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Mrbig.8019:

More on topic, the real issue is that D/P is such a strong set that can’t be paired with strong sustain ( given by condi cleanse in stealth and vamp runes invuln+ leech) without losing huge part of its damage.

It does lose dps due the loss of Fury uptime.

Air/fire + leech procs give panic strike thief the damage it would lack by going into DA + SA instead of CS

That’s not Thief’s fault, thats sigils + rune balance problem.

The result is the most OP build this game has ever seen

Shoutbow and Slick Shoes? Anyone?

Stop complaining about a thief not being able to 1vs1 a cele proff ( something that is not even true if u think of a fight without time constrainsts), thief is not even meant to 1vs1 things.

Exactly, and thief is not meant to even fights either. Only to +1. So if you get killed by thief, its because you were outnumbered.

Thief is no more about skill, it’s just about camping stealth till u get things back on CD, and most of these things are procs ( leeches, panic strike, air/fire, steal, withdraw).

• Leech = Vamp Rune
• Panic Strike = Dedicated Traitline (6)
• Air/Fire = Sigil RnG procs
• Steal = Not a proc, is a skill we actually press and decide when to use
• Withdraw = Not a proc, is a skill we actually press and decide when to use

As we can see in the list above, gathered from your post, the problem lies in Sigils and Runes, not the Thief itself.

Signed

Ex-thief main from times when u weren’t even planned by your parents.

Right.. Your post clearly shows that.

The only class comparable to thief is shoutbow. Thief warps the game due to its stealth insta spikes with no counter play. It pushes out or makes it hard to play many squishy specs that people might otherwise play. Shoutbow has the same effect in that it forces out all condition builds from the meta.

But thief is more oppressive. Not sure which is easier to play. Both have been picked up and played well by the wider community which is when you know something is too easy. When people are able to reroll to d/p thief and shoutbow in a day or two and become 95% as good as thief mains of their level then there is an issue.

Ye, lets not even talk about the low skill curve of necro’s/engi/ele/guards.. Those are even easier to learn and pick up.
Necro: 11111111111111 DIES 11111111111111111112

You see, I can give subjective replies aswel.

terrorsquad is meme esports. I am in awe.

please grace us with more memes mememaster.

choovanski.5462:

terrorsquad is meme esports. I am in awe.

please grace us with more memes mememaster.

Sorry, as a pro, I cannot show my strategic memes right off the bat.
Just follow me and enjoy down the road.

Terrorsquad.4802:

choovanski.5462:

terrorsquad is meme esports. I am in awe.

please grace us with more memes mememaster.

Sorry, as a pro, I cannot show my strategic memes right off the bat.
Just follow me and enjoy down the road.

bless <3

Terrorsquad.4802:

StickerHappy.8052:

choovanski.5462:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Lol at the thief argument of l2p. I will turn it round of you thieves. If you aren’t just crushing and carrying games as a solo player then you need to l2p. D/P thief is that strong, and so was S/D before d/p. SO if your struggling maybe work on your game lads.

people think thief is weak but it’s not. most thief players are just bad.

seriously bad. like I can kill them on zerker engineer (TC,S,SS) bad.

I don’t wanna assume but I have never seen any of the thief posters here in the forums in pvp except for Cynz and glock.

Although we argue a lot in the forums I do have respect for these people’s skills.

I have 4k matches but I have never seen these other posters in pvp, must be the MMR? or?

Or Region

Well, I don’t know about you but I don’t check the account name of every person on my or opposite team, I only recognize people who has the same account name and character name. But this is a hilarious argument.

Laraley.7695:

Terrorsquad.4802:

StickerHappy.8052:

choovanski.5462:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Lol at the thief argument of l2p. I will turn it round of you thieves. If you aren’t just crushing and carrying games as a solo player then you need to l2p. D/P thief is that strong, and so was S/D before d/p. SO if your struggling maybe work on your game lads.

people think thief is weak but it’s not. most thief players are just bad.

seriously bad. like I can kill them on zerker engineer (TC,S,SS) bad.

I don’t wanna assume but I have never seen any of the thief posters here in the forums in pvp except for Cynz and glock.

Although we argue a lot in the forums I do have respect for these people’s skills.

I have 4k matches but I have never seen these other posters in pvp, must be the MMR? or?

Or Region

Well, I don’t know about you but I don’t check the account name of every person on my or opposite team, I only recognize people who has the same account name and character name. But this is a hilarious argument.

same, plus I’m always high af when I’m playing pvp so I rarely remember people unless their character and play are really distinctive, or they have a hilarious name.

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

insanemaniac.2456:

Cynz.9437:

oh i wanna join too!

make engi kits go on CD if they are chilled D8

already happens. 1.66 secs instead of 1 is quite noticable when you play kit engi a lot.

…and imagine you’re an ele and get your attunements have 16 second cd instead of 10.
Yesterday I downed an engi and ended up with 18 seconds of chill, couldn’t cleanse it for more than half of the duration.That was fun.

Oh no!
I burn all my Cantraps!
I need to rely on signet of restoration to survive so I can’t bring Ether Renewel!
I switch out water right after Engi throws a freeze Grenade!
My Windborne Speed is on CD too!
I didn’t bring a focus for Magnetic Wave!
Because of all the mistakes I made, now I need to waste merely 16 seconds!

Cmon, give me a break. Ele has like 5 times more ways to deal with chills than most of the other classes.

Lol, first of all I was on fresh air, so no I don’t have million condi removals. Second of all, most condi removals are in attunements, if you cannot switch to the attunement, you’re not going to get the cleanse.

I use no cantrips.
Using ER over SoR is the stupidest idea I’ve ever heard. Even staff eles use SoR, because ER is that bad. If you face competenent players it will get interrupted every single time.
It wasn’t nades, it was from downstate. It was a lot of RNG, therefore I couldn’t have predicted it.
I wasn’t on staff.
I had focus, but it was on cooldown.
I didn’t do any mistakes, the only one that could be taken as a mistake was not considering I can end up with so much chill due to RNG. Using Magnetic Wave during a fight is hardly a mistake, then I’m left with one condition removal.

Then it’s YOUR problem then….
If you decide not to run any cleanse utility, not to run cleanse heal, not to bring a focus, not to play staff, not to learn to rotate your attunement more precisely, seriously you have no right to complain about the chill.

It’s like going full zerk 6 6 2 0 0 as ranger, with Troll Ungeant, quickness, signet of wild, and lightning reflex, you get good burst but you have absolutely no cleanse, so now weakness hard-counters you and make you completely useless. Do I see full zerk ranger complain about weakness being OP? I have yet to see any.

StickerHappy.8052:

Terrorsquad.4802:

I love how people are calling Thief gamebreaking.
It’s priceless.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/006/077/so_good.png

Its not, those people are the same as the thief posters, exaggerating everytime.

But hey, I know you play mesmer, I still think thieves need something to be truly a risk-reward class. People claim they are, but TBH they are not. Shatter mesmer is more risk-reward than thief.

That’s really all that has been asked, that’s what I’ve suggested in the OP. I can see hyperboles on both sides of the fence, others are openly trying to derail the thread, something I hope most people got already wind of

Cynz.9437:

“stealth has no counter”
meanwhile stealth doesn’t make invulnerable to dmg nor CCs
comon skills that give stealth are interruptable and can’t be used while CCd (besides LR)
refuge is big bull eye for aoe spam
revealed debuff actually exists

yeah sure, no counter….

how many counters are there to block, invuls passive traits? oh wait, none~

@ron: same things can be said about a lot of things in this game not just thieves….

And that’s true. I hate (not just thieves) many of the instant procs, and excessive access to certain defenses that scale too well for low-protection stats (Guardian for example). I even dislike how passive AI is and how little the on-use effects impact gameplay more than their sheer existence, and I main a MM necro…

Unfortunately, I can’t write a list of everything that needs to be dialed back and reconsidered a bit every time I make an argument, though. It just isn’t possible…

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

insanemaniac.2456:

Cynz.9437:

oh i wanna join too!

make engi kits go on CD if they are chilled D8

already happens. 1.66 secs instead of 1 is quite noticable when you play kit engi a lot.

…and imagine you’re an ele and get your attunements have 16 second cd instead of 10.
Yesterday I downed an engi and ended up with 18 seconds of chill, couldn’t cleanse it for more than half of the duration.That was fun.

Oh no!
I burn all my Cantraps!
I need to rely on signet of restoration to survive so I can’t bring Ether Renewel!
I switch out water right after Engi throws a freeze Grenade!
My Windborne Speed is on CD too!
I didn’t bring a focus for Magnetic Wave!
Because of all the mistakes I made, now I need to waste merely 16 seconds!

Cmon, give me a break. Ele has like 5 times more ways to deal with chills than most of the other classes.

Lol, first of all I was on fresh air, so no I don’t have million condi removals. Second of all, most condi removals are in attunements, if you cannot switch to the attunement, you’re not going to get the cleanse.

I use no cantrips.
Using ER over SoR is the stupidest idea I’ve ever heard. Even staff eles use SoR, because ER is that bad. If you face competenent players it will get interrupted every single time.
It wasn’t nades, it was from downstate. It was a lot of RNG, therefore I couldn’t have predicted it.
I wasn’t on staff.
I had focus, but it was on cooldown.
I didn’t do any mistakes, the only one that could be taken as a mistake was not considering I can end up with so much chill due to RNG. Using Magnetic Wave during a fight is hardly a mistake, then I’m left with one condition removal.

Then it’s YOUR problem then….
If you decide not to run any cleanse utility, not to run cleanse heal, not to bring a focus, not to play staff, not to learn to rotate your attunement more precisely, seriously you have no right to complain about the chill.

It’s like going full zerk 6 6 2 0 0 as ranger, with Troll Ungeant, quickness, signet of wild, and lightning reflex, you get good burst but you have absolutely no cleanse, so now weakness hard-counters you and make you completely useless. Do I see full zerk ranger complain about weakness being OP? I have yet to see any.

You seem to have reading issues. I said I had focus, but my Magnetic Wave was on cooldown. I actually do not have the choice to bring many condition removals if I wish to play dps ele. Once again, elementalist is the ONLY CLASS, which weapon swap gets affected by chill. Your comparsion to weakness is completely irrelevant, since weakness affects all classes the same.

The idea of not being punished by chill so much on ele is simply because maybe one day ele will have to stop traiting for survability and there will be other viable options aside d/d ele.

I have the right to complain about the chill if my class gets punished more than other classes, there.