Guild Wars 2

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Sirendor.1394:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

style.6173:

R O C.6574:

Honestly dude balance isn’t that bad. I know that’s not the popular thing to say. It’s not as interesting as “balance sucks, so OP, elite specs ruined the game, I hate this game.”

I play mainly Rev, DH, and DD thief and guess what? They all do pretty well for their given roles. I see warriors brave into a match and do some awesome plays. I tried engi and eli for a while and they do okay just not my style. Druid has some good potential and everyone seems to think Reaper is most op.

Now the point: META doesn’t suck. META is a lie. Balance is fine. If a class sucks for you, you’re not playing it right.

**mic drop

If you think balance is fine, you aren’t playing the same game. Some classes are OP and some are definitely UP.

Put it another way, compare how often you see 3 necros on a team compared to how often you see 3 warrior or 3 thieves.

Stacking classes does not prove something is OP or UP…

See how this match went for me vs a team of 3 reapers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJlvYb8fmV0&feature=youtu.be

With 2 reapers 1 scrapper and 1 tempest on your side… this does not prove a lot.

It proves that stacking 3 reapers is pointless and does not prove they are uncounterable (OP).

No it doesn’t really prove anything. All I saw in your video is that your team outrotated the enemy team, which is why you won the match. This doesn’t really deny that reaper is OP (which is it clearly is, in competent hands).

Also, if you were the thief, well played. But you demonstrated that DD is weaker than reaper, because you avoided fights when possible and went for caps instead, which is also the best thing to do as thief, because we can’t really face down reaper or most other elite specs atm.

Edit: Sorry, I edited after you already replied, because I misread the reply.

Sirendor.1394:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Sirendor.1394:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

style.6173:

R O C.6574:

Honestly dude balance isn’t that bad. I know that’s not the popular thing to say. It’s not as interesting as “balance sucks, so OP, elite specs ruined the game, I hate this game.”

I play mainly Rev, DH, and DD thief and guess what? They all do pretty well for their given roles. I see warriors brave into a match and do some awesome plays. I tried engi and eli for a while and they do okay just not my style. Druid has some good potential and everyone seems to think Reaper is most op.

Now the point: META doesn’t suck. META is a lie. Balance is fine. If a class sucks for you, you’re not playing it right.

**mic drop

If you think balance is fine, you aren’t playing the same game. Some classes are OP and some are definitely UP.

Put it another way, compare how often you see 3 necros on a team compared to how often you see 3 warrior or 3 thieves.

Stacking classes does not prove something is OP or UP…

See how this match went for me vs a team of 3 reapers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJlvYb8fmV0&feature=youtu.be

With 2 reapers 1 scrapper and 1 tempest on your side… this does not prove a lot.

It proves that stacking 3 reapers is pointless and does not prove they are uncounterable (OP).

That is just plain false. All I saw in your video is that your team outrotated the enemy team, which is why you won the match. This does not prove in any way that reaper as a class isn’t OP.

The physical limitation of reaper’s movement is what keeps them balanced. This game is not balanced around 1 v 1, or even 5 v 5. It is balanced around the Conquest game mode as a whole. I would like to see them slightly nerfed, especially Deathly Chill (ONE stack of chill does as much damage as several bleeds? no way), but overall they are pretty ok for the most part.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Sirendor.1394:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Sirendor.1394:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

style.6173:

R O C.6574:

Honestly dude balance isn’t that bad. I know that’s not the popular thing to say. It’s not as interesting as “balance sucks, so OP, elite specs ruined the game, I hate this game.”

I play mainly Rev, DH, and DD thief and guess what? They all do pretty well for their given roles. I see warriors brave into a match and do some awesome plays. I tried engi and eli for a while and they do okay just not my style. Druid has some good potential and everyone seems to think Reaper is most op.

Now the point: META doesn’t suck. META is a lie. Balance is fine. If a class sucks for you, you’re not playing it right.

**mic drop

If you think balance is fine, you aren’t playing the same game. Some classes are OP and some are definitely UP.

Put it another way, compare how often you see 3 necros on a team compared to how often you see 3 warrior or 3 thieves.

Stacking classes does not prove something is OP or UP…

See how this match went for me vs a team of 3 reapers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJlvYb8fmV0&feature=youtu.be

With 2 reapers 1 scrapper and 1 tempest on your side… this does not prove a lot.

It proves that stacking 3 reapers is pointless and does not prove they are uncounterable (OP).

That is just plain false. All I saw in your video is that your team outrotated the enemy team, which is why you won the match. This does not prove in any way that reaper as a class isn’t OP.

The physical limitation of reaper’s movement is what keeps them balanced. This game is not balanced around 1 v 1, or even 5 v 5. It is balanced around the Conquest game mode as a whole. I would like to see them slightly nerfed, especially Deathly Chill (ONE stack of chill does as much damage as several bleeds? no way), but overall they are pretty ok for the most part.

Their mobility is probably their weakest point, as you say. And that makes sense balancing it around the game mode, but my problem with reaper is that if you compare it to other classes (especially non-elite specs) that it has too much going for it, and that is just not desirable.

Sirendor.1394:

we can’t really face down reaper

You actually can, but it gives you more advantage to just outrotate the necro and +1 someone else.

Sirendor.1394:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Sirendor.1394:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

style.6173:

R O C.6574:

Honestly dude balance isn’t that bad. I know that’s not the popular thing to say. It’s not as interesting as “balance sucks, so OP, elite specs ruined the game, I hate this game.”

I play mainly Rev, DH, and DD thief and guess what? They all do pretty well for their given roles. I see warriors brave into a match and do some awesome plays. I tried engi and eli for a while and they do okay just not my style. Druid has some good potential and everyone seems to think Reaper is most op.

Now the point: META doesn’t suck. META is a lie. Balance is fine. If a class sucks for you, you’re not playing it right.

**mic drop

If you think balance is fine, you aren’t playing the same game. Some classes are OP and some are definitely UP.

Put it another way, compare how often you see 3 necros on a team compared to how often you see 3 warrior or 3 thieves.

Stacking classes does not prove something is OP or UP…

See how this match went for me vs a team of 3 reapers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJlvYb8fmV0&feature=youtu.be

With 2 reapers 1 scrapper and 1 tempest on your side… this does not prove a lot.

It proves that stacking 3 reapers is pointless and does not prove they are uncounterable (OP).

No it doesn’t really prove anything. All I saw in your video is that your team outrotated the enemy team, which is why you won the match. This doesn’t really deny that reaper is OP (which is it clearly is, in competent hands).

Also, if you were the thief, well played. But you demonstrated that DD is weaker than reaper, because you avoided fights when possible and went for caps instead, which is also the best thing to do as thief, because we can’t really face down reaper or most other elite specs atm.

Edit: Sorry, I edited after you already replied, because I misread the reply.

its not reaper, reaper deserves the buffs it got. The problem is how conditions work. If condi reaper got nerfed directly there will just be new problems.

What needs to happen is they need to stop the whole condi must counter power thing they have going on.

Eh, I think both balance and matchmaking is better than S1.

And may cheesy bunker rezzmers NEVER rise again.

Sirendor.1394:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Sirendor.1394:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

style.6173:

R O C.6574:

Honestly dude balance isn’t that bad. I know that’s not the popular thing to say. It’s not as interesting as “balance sucks, so OP, elite specs ruined the game, I hate this game.”

I play mainly Rev, DH, and DD thief and guess what? They all do pretty well for their given roles. I see warriors brave into a match and do some awesome plays. I tried engi and eli for a while and they do okay just not my style. Druid has some good potential and everyone seems to think Reaper is most op.

Now the point: META doesn’t suck. META is a lie. Balance is fine. If a class sucks for you, you’re not playing it right.

**mic drop

If you think balance is fine, you aren’t playing the same game. Some classes are OP and some are definitely UP.

Put it another way, compare how often you see 3 necros on a team compared to how often you see 3 warrior or 3 thieves.

Stacking classes does not prove something is OP or UP…

See how this match went for me vs a team of 3 reapers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJlvYb8fmV0&feature=youtu.be

With 2 reapers 1 scrapper and 1 tempest on your side… this does not prove a lot.

It proves that stacking 3 reapers is pointless and does not prove they are uncounterable (OP).

No it doesn’t really prove anything. All I saw in your video is that your team outrotated the enemy team, which is why you won the match. This doesn’t really deny that reaper is OP (which is it clearly is, in competent hands).

Also, if you were the thief, well played. But you demonstrated that DD is weaker than reaper, because you avoided fights when possible and went for caps instead, which is also the best thing to do as thief, because we can’t really face down reaper or most other elite specs atm.

Edit: Sorry, I edited after you already replied, because I misread the reply.

Noticed this late, but ye I was the thief in the vid :] thnx

ibkillin.9610:

Deniara Devious.3948:

The match making system is clearly inferior to Season 1. Mixing MMR + division pip range was an epic mistake and I am still waiting for an apology from Arenanet. The current system leads to countless of pointless matches of either huge losses (and no chances of winning) and huge wins (and no chances of losing) as the “better” players are placed in team A and “worse” players in team B.

One guy did a math simulation to prove the MMR hell is true. See:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/The-nature-of-MMR-hell/

It is also obvious that the removal of amulets of was just a lazy band aid “fix”, which didn’t fix the core issue of the power creep since trait rework and most importantly the overpowered elite specs. Now we have more burst and less bunkers, but amount of builds seen is not significantly better or worse.

I agree 100% with what you say. I also saw that theorycrafting post and agree with that too. Elite specs are way too OP, basically forcing anyone who wants to play in PvP to “buy the expansion”. I thought the devs said that wouldn’t be necessary? They could always up some of the non elite skill trees to make them more viable. However, Anet chooses to just be greedy it seems and make these stupid meta OP all around.

I agree with the band aid fix too. They didn’t need to remove those amulets and runes (some of which I used to use). They should have just tweaked or added more to counter them better. They tried to remove the bunker aspect but now the condition / burst crap is way out of control.

I don’t own the expansion – I just came back and only play my ole GS/LB ranger – have only lost 3 matches in the first three jewels. Maybe gs/lb ranger is OP, not sure – but I’m doing well after taking a year off.

Deniara Devious.3948:

runeblade.7514:

Okay, lets say that is true. How are you going to fix afkers trying to lower their MMR?

I have suggested solutions to this in other threads and also suggested class balance issues in multiple threads:

We need to have either of the following match making system for ranked:

A) purely based on pip range and random selection between the range (in the long run everybody would get roughly same amount of “good” and “bad” team mates and opponents from the same pip range)

This would favor premades because you’re filtering out underpowered comps and even have the possibility of Teamspeak, which is a cheap way of achieving legendary if you can find players willing to team.

B) We also need a report function, which actually works. If players intentionally AFK or throw in matches, they get banned.

*I agree somewhat but it’d be open to abuse. We could just report people having subpar builds or simply for being bad. *

It doesn’t matter which algorithm we select, we also need to change how pips are gained. Current system is bad because it treats 0-500 and 499-500 loss the same way.* Too many players stop playing when their team is behind by 100-200 points, even though come back is still possible. We should use the system from Season 1, when you could actually even gain 1 PIP when you lost a much higher MMR opponent by a small margin. And you would gain 2 PIPs if you won by a large margin and lost 2 PIPs if you won by a large margin- The win and loss streak system was really not needed.

We need to scrap this type of league altogether. Unranked is way funner and allows for a much higher win percentage than ranked. Leagues were the worst thing I’ve witnessed in the history of gaming. Not just MMO’s but gaming in general.

When it comes to class balance, here is my short list:

Engineer
Hammer has too much goodies + dmg at same time, increase cooldowns of skills #2-5 by 20%, remove triple leap finisher from #3 (much less sustain with water fields), reduce overall damage by 20 %. Even with these changes most would choose hammer over rifle or pistol/x. Engi shield needs to have it’s cooldowns reduced by 20 %. Increase harpoon gun and grenade kit range to 1200 (engi is currently the only profession which lacks 1200 range underwater!).

Stealth gyro needs to have 1.5 s cast time. Reduce effectiveness of rapid regeneration and adaptive armor to tone down engineer sustain without gutting the core engineer. Engineer medkit needs a rework, make medkit #1 affect also engineer and 600 range 360 degree AoE heal, and reduce cast time of medkit #2-5 to 1/4 s with much improved projectile speed or make them 360 range AoE effects affecting engi + up to 2 allies.

Engineer doesn’t need any buffs. The entire point of nerfing an overtuned class is because it’s overtuned, giving compensation for it would just make it overtuned in a different way.

Ranger
Reduce heal from celestial avatar skills by 25% as they heal too much even if ranger has 0 healing power. Signet of stone take no damage reduced to 4 s. Reduce damage from HoT pets by 20%. Increase ancient seeds ICD to 15 s. Give pets a spirit mode when they deal no dmg and cannot use any of their skills, but are also immune to damage. It would be highly useful for WvWvW zerging + pve situations where AoE dmg is abundant.

I strongly disagree with healing seeds because condition damage is very prevalent and needs a counter.

Guardian
Make traps visible. Reduce trap damage by 20%. Numerous DH stacking tons of traps creates really unfun meta for wvwvwv. Spear of Justice, Wings of Resolve and Shield of Courage need all to be toned down.

Elementalist
Elemental Shielding should only grant protection to yourself. Burning fire needs 10 s ICD. Diamond skin should be changed: take 20 % less damage from conditions. Reduce invigorating torrents regeneration to 3 s.

Problem here is conditions are very prevalent, they therefore need corresponding mitigation somewhere. I say give every class a grandmaster trait like diamond skin hidden in their defensive traitline but instead of replacing a current trait it is in addition to it. So instead of diamond skin replacing Versed in Stone it will give condition immunity above a certain health threshold on top of a random Rite of the Great Dwarf proc.

Mesmer
Signet of humility effect reduced to 8 s (still very powerful as it can be cast even when fleeing and cast twice using with continuum split. Chronophantasma 10 s ICD. Confounding Suggestions 10 s ICD. Well of calamity and well of action deserve 20% dmg buff (to give mesmers more AoE dmg, needed in wvwvw and pve).

Mesmers don’t need more AoE damage, they already have way too many utilities such as portal, clones that are faster than players problem there being you will get confusion stacked to you and they walk around obstacles instead of shattering on them so they need a speed nerf and should only move in straight paths. Moa form toughness needs to be doubled while cooldowns cut in half as well.

Revenant
Facet of Light needs to be toned down. Cruel Repercussion should only 25% more damage (it gives guaranteed +50% in WvWvW). Increase face of darkness/elements/strength 20 s CD. Phase Traversal increase CD to 20 s and reduce unblockable time to 3 s. Enduring Recovery give 5 s of vigor instead, as it is too powerful for adept minor. I am not expert in revenant so I cannot comment more. Ventari felt weak to me.

Facet of light needs a complete rework. Make it a standard heal with a cast time where after casting you get your health back, none of this absorb back to full. Too many of these changes however would break revenant entirely. Facet of Elements and Darkness are fine as they are.

Thief
Reduce dagger auto attack by 15%, basically partially reverting the changes. Thief is really difficult to balance, because it has so many escapes and so much mobility, making it the best +1. If you give thief more burst or survability it will make other berserker/marauder professions irrelevant.

Reduce some mobility but still more than Revenant while giving some survivability.

And bring back the removed amulets! We need more versatility, not less.

No! Then we’re back to square one with the old bunker meta. At least Mesmers can die now.

ibkillin.9610:

So you say the ladder system is better then season 1? It may be but unfortunately the class balance in this game is a huge kitten stinking up the room.

I find it funny how I can pretty much predict the outcome of a game based on the OP nature of some classes. 3 reapers and 2 scrappers? Ya that’s a win. 2 DH, 2 reapers and 1 ranger? More then likely a win as well.

What a joke, you’re ladder system might be better but it’s too hard to tell with this broken class balance.

I know of a lot of players that are pretty skillful in this game that can’t even seem to get out of the 3rd tier and just lose interest. They are definitely better then 3rd tier but I guess they just need to “L2P” right?

Ya nope, garbage….

If they’re as good as they say, then why aren’t they up there? What classes do they play that can’t handle Necro?

Classes like DH can really shut a Necro down. In fact, i’ve never lost to a single 3+ necro comp all season. But if you’re a class who necro absolutely counters, then ya I can see where you’re coming from.

Agemnon.4608:

Engineer doesn’t need any buffs. The entire point of nerfing an overtuned class is because it’s overtuned, giving compensation for it would just make it overtuned in a different way.

I strongly disagree with healing seeds because condition damage is very prevalent and needs a counter.

*Problem here is conditions are very prevalent, they therefore need corresponding mitigation somewhere. I say give every class a grandmaster trait like diamond skin hidden in their defensive traitline but instead of replacing a current trait it is in addition to it.

Facet of Elements and Darkness are fine as they are.*

No! Then we’re back to square one with the old bunker meta. At least Mesmers can die now.

Your logic that if some profession is overpowered, we shouldn’t do anything positive to them is wrong. I suggested significant nerfs to scrapper and hammer, because I know that just a few small shaves to hammer will continue the status quo and every other engineer and their mom will be using the hammer. When was the last time you saw pistol/shield engi? Core engineer is not overpowered, scrapper is!

There is a general consensus among the engineer player community that medkit needs rework. It was voted as the least power/most sucky kit.

Giving engineer 1200 underwater weapon isn’t gonna do a dent to spvp balance, since underwater was removed, but I think all professions deserve 1200 range weapon underwater and engi doesn’t have one.

I agree that conditions need to be balanced better. The situation is even worse outside spvp, because gear + condition duration foods allows much higher condition power + condition duration. Burning feels too powerful with zero investment in condition power and bleed has felt weak since the trait/condition rework patch.

I do not however like passive super powerful traits like diamond skin was. I wish the traits would require more from the player.

Facet of Elements and Darkness are arguably better than the equivalent warrior shouts. Instead of adding even more power creep I would rather see most other professions pulled down to the level of warrior.

I think bunker mesmer took a serious dent in survivability with the alacrity nerf. If further nerfs are needed, then the reapplication of phantasms/clones + healing from shattering from them + mesmer’s ability to teleport and evade attacks should be looked upon.

In the general the amount of evades, blocks + CC went sky high with HoT. Evade there, daze, stun there, huge condition stacks, sighs, too often the game feels like a spam fest…

Dragonhunters are unlplayable right now with all the no-brain reflects being thrown around. Everything from Swirling deflects to overload earth, Rebound and Magneting aura. To Engi hammer, defense field and distortion.
Not to mention the complete lack of mobility and sustain.

So if you lose vs 2 dh teams, balance is not the issue.

Deniara Devious.3948:

And bring back the removed amulets! We need more versatility, not less.

No. Just no.
I dont want to have celestial cancer again. The concept was one of the worst ideas the devs ever had. Almost as bad as the idea of the revenant itself.

SuperduperMLGbsns.9345:

Deniara Devious.3948:

And bring back the removed amulets! We need more versatility, not less.

No. Just no.
I dont want to have celestial cancer again. The concept was one of the worst ideas the devs ever had. Almost as bad as the idea of the revenant itself.

I’m torn on this, oddly enough. I really miss the days when you had dedicated bunkers who didn’t hit like trucks, but I also don’t miss the more recent days of S1 where everyone was a bunker and a big DPS at the same time. It’s a bit better this season, but there’s still some build diversity issues at play.

Personally, I think profession skills/traits are more at play here than amulets.

SuperduperMLGbsns.9345:

Deniara Devious.3948:

And bring back the removed amulets! We need more versatility, not less.

No. Just no.
I dont want to have celestial cancer again. The concept was one of the worst ideas the devs ever had. Almost as bad as the idea of the revenant itself.

They need to take away the raw stat number advantage Celestial has before even considering bringing it back. Idk why they gave it that advantage to begin with.

SuperduperMLGbsns.9345:

Deniara Devious.3948:

And bring back the removed amulets! We need more versatility, not less.

No. Just no.
I dont want to have celestial cancer again. The concept was one of the worst ideas the devs ever had. Almost as bad as the idea of the revenant itself.

Celestial was never meta for some professions e.g. I haven’t found any optimal celestial build for thief nor guardian. Celestial has relatively high sustain, but lacks damage without significant might stacking.

Before the amulet removal we had only couple of celestial builds which could have rightfully argued to be overpowered, namely:
celestial auramancer ele
celestial reaper necro
celestial druid
celestial alacrity mesmer

Alacrity mesmer is pretty much gone, thanks to alacrity nerfs. Celestial shoutbow warrior was already out meta a long time ago. Celestial engineer was already mostly superceded marauder scrapper. Now it is Paladin’s scrapper. Would celestial amulet make scrapper more overpowered, I seriously doubt so as hammer is a power weapon and by far the best weapon for engineer. Is the current paladin scrapper overpowered? Yes it is, but mainly because of hammer skills + certain traits, not because of the amulet.

Reapers and d/f auramancers still reign supreme. Removal of amulets didn’t change this!

People who blame celestial for everything really have a tunnel vision. If celestial would be so much better than everything else, why it is not more popular in pve and WvWvW? PVT has been standard for WvWvW since Autumn 2012 and berserker and viper and sinister are top choices for pve raids.

I hope Arenanet would bring not just celestial back, but also the other removed amulets like soldier (= high sustain, low DPS). I am fine if celestial is shaved a bit for spvp purposes, but I hope people do understand if celestial has equal amount of points distributed for all stats, it would utterly suck and it wouldn’t be optimal for any build.

Removal of amulets didn’t bring us more varied or more healthy meta. Just more burst and more blowout matches.

Deniara Devious.3948:

SuperduperMLGbsns.9345:

Deniara Devious.3948:

And bring back the removed amulets! We need more versatility, not less.

No. Just no.
I dont want to have celestial cancer again. The concept was one of the worst ideas the devs ever had. Almost as bad as the idea of the revenant itself.

Celestial was never meta for some professions e.g. I haven’t found any optimal celestial build for thief nor guardian. Celestial has relatively high sustain, but lacks damage without significant might stacking.

Before the amulet removal we had only couple of celestial builds which could have rightfully argued to be overpowered, namely:
celestial auramancer ele
celestial reaper necro
celestial druid
celestial alacrity mesmer

Alacrity mesmer is pretty much gone, thanks to alacrity nerfs. Celestial shoutbow warrior was already out meta a long time ago. Celestial engineer was already mostly superceded marauder scrapper. Now it is Paladin’s scrapper. Would celestial amulet make scrapper more overpowered, I seriously doubt so as hammer is a power weapon and by far the best weapon for engineer. Is the current paladin scrapper overpowered? Yes it is, but mainly because of hammer skills + certain traits, not because of the amulet.

Reapers and d/f auramancers still reign supreme. Removal of amulets didn’t change this!

People who blame celestial for everything really have a tunnel vision. If celestial would be so much better than everything else, why it is not more popular in pve and WvWvW? PVT has been standard for WvWvW since Autumn 2012 and berserker and viper and sinister are top choices for pve raids.

I hope Arenanet would bring not just celestial back, but also the other removed amulets like soldier (= high sustain, low DPS). I am fine if celestial is shaved a bit for spvp purposes, but I hope people do understand if celestial has equal amount of points distributed for all stats, it would utterly suck and it wouldn’t be optimal for any build.

Removal of amulets didn’t bring us more varied or more healthy meta. Just more burst and more blowout matches.

…this meta is healthier than the bunker meta. Before, there were essentially 3 builds that you’d see, and in a 1v1 fight over a point, players would sooner die of boredom than from their opponent. Mid would be neutral and disputed the entire game, with the outcome of the match decided by which team got a player onto their home point slightly sooner. Some games would end with time running out, rather than one team reaching 500 points. It was boring, as well as limited in variety. This meta is less boring, and less limited in build variety. I would call that a success. There is still room for improvement, obviously, but s2 is worlds better than s1 was.