Guild Wars 2

Justin ODell.9517:

Aktium.9506:

I’m trying to think of a constructive way to say this but I just can’t. Sorry. This is just stupid. I frequently get kicked out to the login screen with a cute little error message when I load into maps from the lobby and it’s no big deal, I’m back in the game long before the match starts. Most of the time anyway. But I sure as hell don’t want to be punished for whatever brief server hiccup is occurring on your end.

I understand what you’re saying, but more often than not the problem is not on our end… which isn’t the same as saying its your fault.

It’s a complex problem that can’t be simplified enough to place blame anywhere with much certanty. However, if it was on our end (which has happened), everyone would D/C, not just you

Also, our servers have no way of detecting the difference between a player pulling the plug to a loss, and a legitimate connection issue.

That said, we are looking at ways of addressing this issue.

I dont think this is 100 percent true… i had games that from 10 players 4 or 5 dced from the game at the same time but the rest of us stayed..

Due to the amount of circumstances that could come into play;

Power cut
PC over heats
User ISP has a blip
Anet ISP has a blip
Anet has a blip it’s unwilling to admit
Changing characters to fit your solo Q buddies cuz class stacking – so u have a chance against the cute premades in unranked

As long as the player reconnects – they shouldn’t get counted as a deserter. None of these are under human control.

-Saying this however, I got DCd at the start of courtyard and my team was 125 points down 0-125.. we then came back and won. I got something like 1350 points for the win? So..?

I’m sick of Game companies telling me that “it can’t be our end or everyone would be affected”
The last few games I’ve played only X% of the population were affected from all over the world on the same servers. Yet it was nothing to do with the game providers. It had to be the mass amounts of users that had got something wrong all at the same time to give 100000000000000000000ms

=-/

What im trying to say is that what you wrote was not 100 percent correct, when 5 players dc and 5 dont , could have been a problem with the region ok , BUT .. NOT EVERY ONE DCED like you wrote.

Should consider player performance before and after disconnect/absence as a factor in the amount of points deducted. Point deduction purely based on invisible win chance is a bit crude. Especially if win chance is calculated by comparing wildly fluctuating MMR values.

Justin ODell.9517:

Arietta The Broken.1875:

User ISP has a blip
Anet ISP has a blip

There are a lot of connections along the way (called hops) that could be having issues. This is what I was getting at.

So this being out of both user and company hands, the player gets punished for unforeseeable and issues out of their control? That sounds like a good plan.

Brb ringing my ISP to ask if theres gonna be any blips before I queue this match. every 10mins.

EDIT
If it’s not the players direct fault and the company can’t work out a way to solve it, there shouldn’t be a punishment for the player until the company can work a way around it

I played like 7 games today i won them all , in the last game we were wining like 400 100 and i dced , i was so upset first because it almost never happen and second because i knew that i would get an auto loss , i not even bother to come back to that game.
I ran some tests, to see if i had some packet loss , i called my isp, everything was fine.
i really think there should be a grace period to reconect.

Just now I dced at the start of a ranked game. My connection’s been working flawlessly all day. Guild Wars 2 is without exception the only thing that I encounter connection disconnects in and to top it off I am penalised for it. I understand that you want to punish legitimate dcers and leavers, but there has got to be another way of handling this.

Edit: And just now a friend of mine got sent back to the character selection screen. He was able to instantly reconnect. Fortunately for him it happened when we were loading the HOTM map after winning a game, but if it had happened just a few seconds earlier he wouldn’t have been present when the game ended. If the dishonour debuff was enabled he would’ve gotten it for a DC that lasted less than 10 seconds.

Also, just a side bar.
The match making/map choosing UI is horrible. Fix please. -

Justin ODell.9517:

Arietta The Broken.1875:

Also, just a side bar.
The match making/map choosing UI is horrible. Fix please. -

Horrible how? 1990’s website horrible?

Hey, I liked my yahoo homepage you meanie

When map selection comes up, it forces you to click one before you can do something else. It’s got an “always on top” feel to it. You can’t move it.

I was trying to buy some dungeon armor to finish my collection, map menu popped and I had to choose.

It just feels clunky and “old”.

The whole gw2 UI needs a revamp imo but thats a whole different story.

I like the new dailys, however I do not like specific classes because it forms teams of same classes. It really unbalances matches and make them less fun to play. Notice more n more people swapping at countdown and sometimes not coming back in leaving lots of 4 v 5 matches sadly.

Justin ODell.9517:

laokoko.7403:

Is it in game already? Or it havn’t be patched in yet.

In game, but currently disabled.

Morwath.9817:

-3 on leaderboard, enjoy
even if you get 1 sec DC due to GW2 client badness

It’s -1 to -3 depending on your odds of victory.

Morwath.9817:

the best way to avoid ‘build wars’ would be to hide display whos in enemy team before it starts, so you could just adjust your own setup by picking synergies in your team and counter class stacking. If you hide whos in enemy team, people won’t be able to pick ‘counters’ and ‘build wars’ won’t happen.

I really like this idea, passing it along to the team.

+1 this is a great idea! It will also give solos a better shot against premades. Team composition is so important.

Justin ODell.9517:

This is the part of the reasoning behind locking profession. The other is to avoid Build Wars 2 and lower the amount secret knowledge that only experienced players know.

You saw 2 engis and 3 ppl reroll to terror nec, condi ranger and axebow war

good old days :,(

but well…you can still swap prof in esl so it’s fine

@ Justin Odell.

Few suggestions based on my observations and my games in ranked so far.

#1
Split ranked into two queue’s again, 1 that sports Solo’s & Duo’s
and one that is strictly for teams of 5.

#2
If the above is not being considered at all, The the System should in no case, put 2 groups of 2’s and 3’s on one team, while the other is strictly solo’s – and this is regardless of MMR.
Communication simply has too much of an impact on a games possible outcome, to allow 1 team to potentially have 2’s and 3’s communicating amongst themselves, while the other team is forced to either endure, and MAYBE (big maybe) win – or loose.

#3
The Proffession dailies have got to go, theres really nothing more to say.
Regardless of your intentions for the dailies (and believe me, we all want a bigger base of pvp’ers, so we get it).

The dailies cause class stacking to get out of control,
The dailies force people into groups, where 1 or usually more players, are not familiar with that class – nor do they CARE. because all they need is 1 game – and then they get free acchievement points.

#4
I recently read a thread that suggested the PvP section of the game, to be free to play.

Has something like this ever been suggested during a meeting?, if so –
what were the general stance on the idea? if not -
when can you bring such an idea to the table?.

I do not believe the active PvP playerbase is large enough to support a functioning 5-man only queue.

Bukkebruse.2810:

I do not believe the active PvP playerbase is large enough to support a functioning 5-man only queue.

Then they’ve gotta open a forum section the teams can arrange Queue times on.

Teams have nothing to do in a soloQ crowd whatso ever. regardless of the reasoning behind it.

Why not put some grace time on DC and only punish players if they change their profession?

I think class swapping should still be allowed.

I like the idea of just hiding the enemy comp if that’s the problem, because anyone who has 3 or 4 of the same profession on their team generally is going to have a bad time.

Class swapping should be allowed until such a time that matchmaking doesn’t stack 3 guards vs 4 engineers.
Regardless of what the other team is running, being able to change class so you have 1 of each rather than 5 of the same shouldn’t be punished.

@Justin

You want our attention? If I’m queuing you already have my attention. I’ve consciously decided I want to queue for PvP.
I personally don’t want the game I spend a considerable amount of time on to annoy me, this is the sort of thing that is irritating and unnecessary.

Justin ODell.9517:

Arietta The Broken.1875:

Also, just a side bar.
The match making/map choosing UI is horrible. Fix please. -

Horrible how? 1990’s website horrible?

the one weird thing i get is that i usually have to select my choice (both map and accept/cancel) 2-5 times before the system accepts it. its the only place in the entire game that i have run into a problem like this.

oneply.9586:

Justin ODell.9517:

Arietta The Broken.1875:

Also, just a side bar.
The match making/map choosing UI is horrible. Fix please. -

Horrible how? 1990’s website horrible?

the one weird thing i get is that i usually have to select my choice (both map and accept/cancel) 2-5 times before the system accepts it. its the only place in the entire game that i have run into a problem like this.

i dont get this with accept/cancel, but i do get it with map selection.

Solstice.1097:

oneply.9586:

Justin ODell.9517:

Arietta The Broken.1875:

Also, just a side bar.
The match making/map choosing UI is horrible. Fix please. -

Horrible how? 1990’s website horrible?

the one weird thing i get is that i usually have to select my choice (both map and accept/cancel) 2-5 times before the system accepts it. its the only place in the entire game that i have run into a problem like this.

i dont get this with accept/cancel, but i do get it with map selection.

I got this (accept/cancel) bug the other day. I had to leave prior to the queue popping so I left queue. For some reason it wouldn’t allow me to leave, so the accept/cancel pop continued like I was still in queue even when I left the hotm and was in la.

Would class stacking be totally negated; as in teams cannot queue with 2+ of the same profession? – something to think about.

Disconnecting or character select should not instantly give you a loss.
Instead all other character slots should be greyed out and unable to be logged into for the duration of the match. dishonour should be applied if absent at the matches end.
Maybe a warning or something to indicate this is the intention to stop class hopping.

And totally agree about hiding opposite teams profession until they are met on the field. Maybe not even showing names to avoid the them being memorised.

Additional PvP Daily Variety.

• Finish [X] players. (F Stomp not body kill)
• Revive [X] downed players.
• Win [X] Map. (Unranked/Ranked)
• Kill [Insert Profession]. (Replace class specific win)
  (May cause similar problem of people not running the profession to be killed that day.
  But marginally better then having too many.)
• Special Objective (Kill lord, destroy trebuchet, score orb, kill beasts, etc.)

what if instead of penalizing someone for class-swapping, it simply changed the prediction and therefore the amount of LB points awarded post-game?

It always makes me smile when my team has 3 mesmers and the other team has 1 or 0 mesmers. I queued twice today, both times I got annoyed and stopped pvping altogether. I’d gladly have swapped professions in either case, but I don’t want an automatic loss.

No, two is not a great sample size, but should that matter? I won one and I lost one, I really don’t care all that much about that, (and my loss was against a 3-man queued group plus pugs), but I thought we were fixing the profession distribution, especially considering my inability to swap professions.

I’m done with ranked queues for a while if this is how teams are going to be distributed.

PROFESSION SELECTION DISTILLED – only premade groups get to strategically decide optimal team profession comps. Everyone else gets random group setups and labeled a “deserter” if they adjust their profession to respond to the premade they’re are being been fed to. “Build Wars 2” advantage only to the premades.

At least my dragon finisher works in wvw where I now spend all my time waiting for soloq to return. I miss PvP, even the toxic haters….

Justin ODell.9517:

Aktium.9506:

I’m trying to think of a constructive way to say this but I just can’t. Sorry. This is just stupid. I frequently get kicked out to the login screen with a cute little error message when I load into maps from the lobby and it’s no big deal, I’m back in the game long before the match starts. Most of the time anyway. But I sure as hell don’t want to be punished for whatever brief server hiccup is occurring on your end.

I understand what you’re saying, but more often than not the problem is not on our end… which isn’t the same as saying its your fault.

It’s a complex problem that can’t be simplified enough to place blame anywhere with much certanty. However, if it was on our end (which has happened), everyone would D/C, not just you

Also, our servers have no way of detecting the difference between a player pulling the plug to a loss, and a legitimate connection issue.

That said, we are looking at ways of addressing this issue.

So you’re telling me that it is a complex problem where blame cannot be placed with certainty; but you are willing to give dishonor those who disconnect. Also switching team comps does not promote any advantage, it only evens the playing field, in fact it may promote a disadvantage. This idea sounds irrational based off of logic and technological limitations alone. Don’t do this Anet or you will loose a long term pvper. You’re not doing a good job with this idea.

If you’re going to play a small-team game online, it is only fair that you are asked to ensure you have a reliable machine and ISP. No one can choose your ISP or machine for you. It is very unlikely for someone to have a reliable ISP and machine to suffer enough disconnects above the average for it to significantly impact anything. In the event of a bad node or headend from your ISP, you may experience issues for several days. I suggest you either play pve or wvw, or have an offline game you can play in times that your connection is less than stable (and of course report the issues to your ISP and ensure they are being addressed).

At the end of the day, it’s people in places like Nevada and Northern California that don’t really have any good ISP’s available that are kinda screwed ATM, but it’s not really anything that Anet should be expected to cater to.

Justin ODell.9517:

Rahktaahl.3082:

So you’re telling me that it is a complex problem where blame cannot be placed with certainty; but you are willing to give dishonor those who disconnect.

Regardless of who is to blame, the disconnection ruins the games for others. Also, we cannot tell the difference between a rage quit and legit disconnect. Because of these two things we feel it is important to minimize the impact to other players.

I’m sorry if this happens to you frequently, but looking at the data it’s still fairly rare. We may add a grace period for disconnects, but you will still get dishonor if it’s beyond that time limit.

Allow teams to report possible ‘rage quitters’ after match maybe? I believe people won’t report people who got short DC and came back. So for example if someone gets certain amount of reports (like it’s in LoL) in X amount of time you could ‘ban’ him from sPvP for X, then XX days if he won’t learn anything. But yeah, it would require human to look at those reports.

Justin ODell.9517:

Arietta The Broken.1875:

User ISP has a blip
Anet ISP has a blip

There are a lot of connections along the way (called hops) that could be having issues. This is what I was getting at.

Just want to make sure you’re aware of issue that Gaile has acknowledged. Please check https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/support/Latency-Lag-for-EU-Players-merged/page/19#post4672308 and especially pathping logs around that post. She spesifically asked people affected by this to send their pathping logs to the customer support.

If several players from different countries are experiencing ~100% packet loss at NCSoft servers/routers then it is hardly player’s fault, and players really shouldn’t be punished if they get disconnected because of this. Also, you could (if you haven’t done already) check with Gaile and/or team for more info about this.

i just thought it would make sense to have a button in-game after the match to click if someone was a deserter.

if someone got clicked as one, AND the server recognized the d/c, they would get dishonor.

this way if you play as a team your team can choose not to give you dishonor. or maybe you played really well and carried your team, but d/c’ed for a minute during the match. your team can choose not to mark you as dishonor.

decided by the players, validated by the servers. Worst case scenario, everyone gets deserter that dc/ed, which is exactly like this system will be. But it also will have cases where giving someone dishonor who didn’t deserve it will be avoided, which is a win for everyone.

Justin ODell.9517:

Aktium.9506:

I’m trying to think of a constructive way to say this but I just can’t. Sorry. This is just stupid. I frequently get kicked out to the login screen with a cute little error message when I load into maps from the lobby and it’s no big deal, I’m back in the game long before the match starts. Most of the time anyway. But I sure as hell don’t want to be punished for whatever brief server hiccup is occurring on your end.

I understand what you’re saying, but more often than not the problem is not on our end… which isn’t the same as saying its your fault.

It’s a complex problem that can’t be simplified enough to place blame anywhere with much certanty. However, if it was on our end (which has happened), everyone would D/C, not just you

Also, our servers have no way of detecting the difference between a player pulling the plug to a loss, and a legitimate connection issue.

That said, we are looking at ways of addressing this issue.

heres a solution. You have 2-3 minutes to reconnect to the game, otherwise then you get deserter debuff. I got a friend on my team who d/c’s at least once a game. He has kitten so reloading takes him less than 2 minutes to get back into the game. But its not his fault the internet in his area is poor.

on another note solid state drive = s.s.d = kitten (without periods) .. interesting how its a bad word lol

I fully support a grace period in case of disconnects. The amount of people that leave a match (leave as in they are no longer present in the PvP map during a match) due to disconnects outnumber the amount of people ragequitting by A LOT. Based on personal experience, the potential rage-quitters will simply AFK in base rather than leave the game. The only people that will be hurt by an instant dishonour debuff in case of dcs will be those who are kicked due to server hiccups.

Bukkebruse.2810:

I fully support a grace period in case of disconnects. The amount of people that leave a match (leave as in they are no longer present in the PvP map during a match) due to disconnects outnumber the amount of people ragequitting by A LOT. Based on personal experience, the potential rage-quitters will simply AFK in base rather than leave the game. The only people that will be hurt by an instant dishonour debuff in case of dcs will be those who are kicked due to server hiccups.

I think that Justin knows this. I guess they just belive people who make expierence of other players worse should be punished, even if those players doesn’t do it on purpose etc. I guess they may think that if they give 30m ‘deserver’ and lb points penalty to someone who DCs once a day they will reduce number of poeple expiriencing DCs and will solve problem this way? Nope, unless those players will stop to PvP at all which will just reduce GW2 PvP population even more.

i think its pretty crappy when Courtyard pops, and suddenly 2-3 people on non eng classes leave the match and come back with bunker engineers.

Why would you lock profession swapping?

If you screw the team into having 3 rangers and 2 thieves (which I recently had in a soloq). Why would you penalize us for changing classes? I also think allowing the freedom and persuasion for people to play other classes should be encouraged and not penalized. Of all the things I’ve seen in this last update this is one that I really disagree with. Let us fix a team build if your match making made a mistake. Buildwars or not 3 rangers and 2 thieves can’t hold a point.

Why not make it so if there are more than 2 of 1 class…have a box pop up for the 3 people if 1 would like to switch classes with no penalty? I understand the mentality of not having buildwars…but most likely if you have 3 of anything its probably not going to benefit you in anyway.

DanzelOPP.5068:

Why not make it so if there are more than 2 of 1 class…have a box pop up for the 3 people if 1 would like to switch classes with no penalty? I understand the mentality of not having buildwars…but most likely if you have 3 of anything its probably not going to benefit you in anyway.

I like this idea.

Justin ODell.9517:

glock.6590:

I’m not sure yet but I think swapping class and winning the game gives no win but it does give a loss if you lose. Is this intended? I switch class when I solo/duo/ trio Q if there’s already a thief just to get a better team comp but it doesn’t count on the leaderboard.

I usually don’t look at the leaderboards because I know its just who plays the most games but I still don’t wanna only accumulate loses because of the bugged system.

Yes. Leaving the game for any reason, including swapping professions, marks you as a deserter and gives you a full loss. A full loss is the same as if your team ended the game with a score of 0.

If dishonor was enabled, you would be getting dishonor for leaving as well.

so you guys won’t implement features that forbid profession stacking
nor will you allow players to switch classes before game starts without penalties,

so what happens when we get like 3 thieves vs 3 engis or cele eles?
or 3 thieves and 2 rangers?
i have over 10 screen shots that i can show you we get these team comps quite often

are we suppose to just bite our teeth and hope for the best?

please explain

Please please please make a warning, I’ve played all my ranked games on the thinking that swapping classes was part of the strategy of the game, and encouraged. Yet I was confounded that even with a 68% win rate that my ranking was still abysmal. How could I have known?

I didn’t believe that this was how it worked when my friend told me.

Arietta The Broken.1875:

When map selection comes up, it forces you to click one before you can do something else. It’s got an “always on top” feel to it. You can’t move it.

I was trying to buy some dungeon armor to finish my collection, map menu popped and I had to choose.

It just feels clunky and “old”.

The whole gw2 UI needs a revamp imo but thats a whole different story.

smells like perisods.

I understand the leader board rank and win/loss punishment for swapping. It’s a solid way to stop build wars, counter compositions, oh and totally kill off anyone’s drive to multi-class anymore. Well done, right? Yeah whatever. That’s not my point. My question is, does the punishment of dishonorable status fit the crime of swapping classes as well? It seems like overkill. Shouldn’t multi-class players who don’t care about your new noncompetitive grind-style of a leaderboard be allowed to have fun playing things they like still? You solved build wars, but in return you’ll punish the little guys. That’s cool. It’s cool that the casual players and the new players: the solo mesmer fighting for his life against multiple thieves, the solo necro getting trained by dps guardians and warriors, and so forth will be punished. It’s cool that [TCG] comps have died completely, and everyone will be The Abjured or something else. But now you’re just even more so forcing everyone to swap to jack of all trade classes like celestial D/D elementalist and celestial rifle engineer. Is celestial wars 2 better than build wars 2? The new system is tolerable or celestial amulet is tolerable, but please not both. It seems sad to me if they are both around at the same time. Skip the rant? Point: the lack of build wars is only going to contribute to a stale game state of most, if not all, competitive teams running celestial amulet based team compositions. It’s just the most forgiving choice, in this new unforgiving system.