Guild Wars 2

Everything and everyone is running extremely high Condition or Glass cannon builds. The amount of damage/scaling of power and condition damage needs to be adjusted. Currently It is whoever gets the burst off first.

its okay.

it is better this way.

matches don’t drag on forever.

may the best dodger evader blocker win.

Build more defensively.

I love the new balance. Feels a lot faster and more skillful. Condi actually seems weaker than previous due to the fact though.

Shrubsy.9720:

I love the new balance. Feels a lot faster and more skillful. Condi actually seems weaker than previous due to the fact though.

Wow, seriously? Dude condi builds are dishing out so much condi it is crazy. The damage is much higher than before.

And as OP said, ppl are melting left and right…. went with a tanky bruiser build I was literally dragging my team down due to how fast I died.

Damage is so high that Knights Amulet makes zero difference in kill speed. Mesmers and Theives are totally OP right now.

Shrubsy.9720:

I love the new balance. Feels a lot faster and more skillful. Condi actually seems weaker than previous due to the fact though.

Idk how more skillful it is when theres not even time to bait out dodges. Smash few skills on keyboard, win. SKillful indeed for faceroll people maybe. All i do is casting JI on medi guard out of nowhere and 1 shot people. Kitten im so skillful

Azel.4786:

Shrubsy.9720:

I love the new balance. Feels a lot faster and more skillful. Condi actually seems weaker than previous due to the fact though.

Wow, seriously? Dude condi builds are dishing out so much condi it is crazy. The damage is much higher than before.

And as OP said, ppl are melting left and right…. went with a tanky bruiser build I was literally dragging my team down due to how fast I died.

I don’t know, condi seems weak. I haven’t tried running it myself, but running zerker and cele engis I’ve absolutely destroyed all condi engis I’ve come across. As it is, condi builds seem more like a nuisance than anything else. Burst ’am and move on.

True, I just saw a zerk guardian go from 80% to 0% by a zerk lich attacking. He went straight to 0, not even go down a bunch and then 0, no. Straight up 0.

But I have seem some condi bursts and those were scary. Not all classes are able to pull that off, but I saw some good condi engies and condi mesmers out there. Mesmers are particularly scary due to their good dodge ability and ability to ramp up high amounts of stacks.

Edit: I guess the problem is as you said it. Everything dying so fast that zerk seems stronger because you melt ppl faster. But this new patch ruined tanky builds and we need something to help address that. Good thing that ANET already acknowledged that and is probably going to look into it soon – some changes have already been made.

Tanky builds work as usual…just now you can’t stack protection/toughness and go take a walk in the park like before…right now shoutbow, engies and the rest need to actually dodge the damage…finally

Azel.4786:

True, I just saw a zerk guardian go from 80% to 0% by a zerk lich attacking. He went straight to 0, not even go down a bunch and then 0, no. Straight up 0.

But I have seem some condi bursts and those were scary. Not all classes are able to pull that off, but I saw some good condi engies and condi mesmers out there. Mesmers are particularly scary due to their good dodge ability and ability to ramp up high amounts of stacks.

Edit: I guess the problem is as you said it. Everything dying so fast that zerk seems stronger because you melt ppl faster. But this new patch ruined tanky builds and we need something to help address that. Good thing that ANET already acknowledged that and is probably going to look into it soon – some changes have already been made.

I rather this than the celestial meta, tbh.

Damagewise it got kind of ridiculous.
Running a tanky amulet or not make sonly minimum difference as it seems. A friend and I tested (though I admit the tests weren´t too excessive) mesmeer burst on engineer with soldiers amulet, cele and marauder. Just the usualy shatter mesmer burst combo, nothing fancy:
1 Shatter and Marauder was downed or very low. On Cele 2k life left and on soldiers 4.5k.
Admittedly, the tests were veeeery rough and not exact at all (because of some defensive traits, runes etc) but tanky amuletts seem to be not as useful as they used to be o.o
Though I take that with a grain of salt, the meta is only 1 day old…

Also…. yup, who sees first, bursts first, wins. Almost every class can now dish out ridiculous burst tah could bfore never be thought of in pvp… (okayokay 100nades engi used to be a thing… used to… I tell ya the burst is back! xD)

I’m surviving just fine playing Celestial D/D!

Cero.5132:

Damagewise it got kind of ridiculous.
Running a tanky amulet or not make sonly minimum difference as it seems. A friend and I tested (though I admit the tests weren´t too excessive) mesmeer burst on engineer with soldiers amulet, cele and marauder. Just the usualy shatter mesmer burst combo, nothing fancy:
1 Shatter and Marauder was downed or very low. On Cele 2k life left and on soldiers 4.5k.
Admittedly, the tests were veeeery rough and not exact at all (because of some defensive traits, runes etc) but tanky amuletts seem to be not as useful as they used to be o.o
Though I take that with a grain of salt, the meta is only 1 day old…

Also…. yup, who sees first, bursts first, wins. Almost every class can now dish out ridiculous burst tah could bfore never be thought of in pvp… (okayokay 100nades engi used to be a thing… used to… I tell ya the burst is back! xD)

And before an engi was able to facetank damage from anything but two above average DPS users and that was even more BS.

If i’d have to put this in numbers:

-Before damage was 3 and defense was 7
-Now damage is 8 and defense is 4
-Now the devs should not nerf the damage to 4 , they should limit it to 6, this to maintain a healthy balance between fun and gameplay

Supreme.3164:

Cero.5132:

Damagewise it got kind of ridiculous.
Running a tanky amulet or not make sonly minimum difference as it seems. A friend and I tested (though I admit the tests weren´t too excessive) mesmeer burst on engineer with soldiers amulet, cele and marauder. Just the usualy shatter mesmer burst combo, nothing fancy:
1 Shatter and Marauder was downed or very low. On Cele 2k life left and on soldiers 4.5k.
Admittedly, the tests were veeeery rough and not exact at all (because of some defensive traits, runes etc) but tanky amuletts seem to be not as useful as they used to be o.o
Though I take that with a grain of salt, the meta is only 1 day old…

Also…. yup, who sees first, bursts first, wins. Almost every class can now dish out ridiculous burst tah could bfore never be thought of in pvp… (okayokay 100nades engi used to be a thing… used to… I tell ya the burst is back! xD)

And before an engi was able to facetank damage from anything but two above average DPS users and that was even more BS.

If i’d have to put this in numbers:

-Before damage was 3 and defense was 7
-Now damage is 8 and defense is 4
-Now the devs should not nerf the damage to 4 , they should limit it to 6, this to maintain a healthy balance between fun and gameplay

Actually I´m not talking engineer explicitely. As I said the test was just me standing there and him shattering. The class taking the shatter could have been anyone with a 15k base hp pool.
And as I´ve answered in your other post. The burst itself is fine. Just certain sigils make it less skillbased (whereas skillbased play with as little as possible uncalculated factors is mandatory in a bursty meta), which tips the scales of damage (as in your example) from 6 to 8

in spvp stability really is becoming the most valuable tool not to get cc locked or constantly dazed by all the 1 shoot mesmers and thieves coming out of perma stealth.

I played p/p rabid engi for one match to embrace the cheese, and the whole time I was being focused by an enemy terrormancer, and I even got into 1v1s with a burn condi guardian that got like 15 stacks of burn on me, and rabid engis have very poor conditionr reomoval compared to most other condition dps specs. I melted in 5-6 seconds.

Supreme.3164:

Cero.5132:

Damagewise it got kind of ridiculous.
Running a tanky amulet or not make sonly minimum difference as it seems. A friend and I tested (though I admit the tests weren´t too excessive) mesmeer burst on engineer with soldiers amulet, cele and marauder. Just the usualy shatter mesmer burst combo, nothing fancy:
1 Shatter and Marauder was downed or very low. On Cele 2k life left and on soldiers 4.5k.
Admittedly, the tests were veeeery rough and not exact at all (because of some defensive traits, runes etc) but tanky amuletts seem to be not as useful as they used to be o.o
Though I take that with a grain of salt, the meta is only 1 day old…

Also…. yup, who sees first, bursts first, wins. Almost every class can now dish out ridiculous burst tah could bfore never be thought of in pvp… (okayokay 100nades engi used to be a thing… used to… I tell ya the burst is back! xD)

And before an engi was able to facetank damage from anything but two above average DPS users and that was even more BS.

If i’d have to put this in numbers:

-Before damage was 3 and defense was 7
-Now damage is 8 and defense is 4
-Now the devs should not nerf the damage to 4 , they should limit it to 6, this to maintain a healthy balance between fun and gameplay

This is just untrue, Cele engi was known to be one of the worst builds for 2v1. It was a 1v1 build and zerker classes still burnt them down fast. Most the people playing engi didn’t even try to kill anyone. They just ran around spamming CC and running away unless it was 1 on 1.

Damage went up but damage-mitigation did not… this is not right lol

I was fighting a shatter mesmer with rabid engi, and the toughness from amulet did not even make any difference. I took the entire shatter burst (l2dodge) and it basically one shot me. I am all for power increase but getting one shot with a decent amount of toughness doesn’t feel right… xD

Damage is quite high, you’ll need to build somewhat defensively in PvP. Though I do feel like you don’t have to build quite as defensively anymore as before the patch, which is refreshing. It’s nice to be able to pick more offensive traits too.

I like it better this way…much much better than watching shoutbow and cele engis with vamp eat damage and kite for days in fire field/throwing nades behind.
this is just the kind of fun I wanted to have….the anticipation and feeling of danger keeping you on your toes watching closely

I have to agree on this. Spent the night one-shotting and getting one-shotted… Wasn’t really fun TBH gg wp Anet… Off to play some ESO now

Peutrifectus.4830:

I have to agree on this. Spent the night one-shotting and getting one-shotted… Wasn’t really fun TBH gg wp Anet… Off to play some ESO now

You seem to need advice. How about:

• put on a different amulet than Berzerker? I heard Marauder is working pretty well
• specs on conditions cleanse/more defense. The only people I saw that got one shot are the ones that played the old way, without speccing for defense.

Time has changed. Without defensive traits, you won’t survive long. You can take the risk, and that’s great. But don’t complain that you got one shot. Long is gone the day people can 1v2, nor surviving well with just a Berserker amulet

Overall, this patch is awesome in term of balance! Good luck and have fun!

Anyone trying to say this is anything close to balanced is only kidding themselves.

This damage would be fine for a FPS game in which there’s few skills. Just 2-3 weapons and 1-2 attacks with each, and mapos designed with positioning in mind. With more corridors and obstacles.

For a game with 10 base skills and so many factors, and maps filled with huge open spaces and barely any cover, less than 3 seconds for a single character to take down another is too much.

What’s the point of having 35 skills available if someone can come from stealth and take you down before you can hit the stun breaker in 3/4 of a second?

If you think damage is too high in spvp/tpvp, then try WvWvW at busy hours in top tiers! WvWvW has much higher gear stats, guard leech from the guards, borderland bloodlust, consumables and allows more rune combinations. I feel that the dmg in WvWvW is roughly twice as big compared to spvp, yet the dmg mitigation is only maybe 10-20% better.

The damage in WvWvW is plain crazy. I play a balanaced hybrid character and I was able to take down enemy in less than 2 seconds. Many fights are over before you can sneeze.

the dps is high atm, cuz everyone is running full DMG…. The meta will even out, especially in competetive play, cuz there are very strong defensive options as well (Shoutguard with clerics, Shoutbow, Water/Arcane/Earth-Ele etc.)

MithranArkanere.8957:

For a game with 10 base skills and so many factors, and maps filled with huge open spaces and barely any cover, less than 3 seconds for a single character to take down another is too much.

If you can’t even get yourself over the full berserker mindset, then don’t expect people to give you sympathy for your die-in-3-secs problem. You shouldn’t die to another player within 3s. If it’s a big 5v5 teamfight, then use position. Don’t just jump into the middle of the combat and complains you die in 3s.

Look at games like LoL/Dota, if you jump into an 1v3 ambush, expect to die instantly. The age of bunker poking each other for 15 minutes is gone, and I’m glad that it’s gone. The new combat is more fluid and more fun.

Adapt.

Sunshine.5014:

[…]

Adapt.

You cannot “adapt” against a build that can take down a full bunker warrior in less time than it takes to press a stun breaker to begin reacting at all.

And don’t come tell me there’s nothing broken when devs themlseves are saying they have already noticed several of the broken things.

PowerBottom.5796:

the dps is high atm, cuz everyone is running full DMG…. The meta will even out, especially in competetive play, cuz there are very strong defensive options as well (Shoutguard with clerics, Shoutbow, Water/Arcane/Earth-Ele etc.)

People don’t traditionally run full dmg in WvW yet I see a post about the dmg changes above yours. Something is off.

MithranArkanere.8957:

You cannot “adapt” against a build that can take down a full bunker warrior in less time than it takes to press a stun breaker to begin reacting at all.

I’m curious what profession and build you play.

I’m a marauder Thief, and the only time I get insta-killed is when two or three enemies focus on me… or I jump into an AoE battle when I shouldn’t. Then again, I’ve only really ever played a thief, so maybe my reflexes have had to get faster.

Indeed, no sarcasm meant at all, but if you want to improve your reflexes and change the way you think, try out a thief. When you get accustomed to it, everything else feels like it’s in slow-motion.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Sunshine.5014:

[…]

Adapt.

You cannot “adapt” against a build that can take down a full bunker warrior in less time than it takes to press a stun breaker to begin reacting at all.

I hardly can take your argument seriously when you said you can take down a full bunker warriors in less time to press a stun breaker. Let’s give you some leeway and say it takes you 3s to press the stun break button. Now, give me a build that can kill a bunker warrior in 3s.

People are just exploding now. It’s insane.

Burning is out of control…. not just burning but damage of all sorts. I find even my own damage is crazy, but if anyone gets the jump on me I stand no chance at all.

GJ Anet… seriously you guys need to reconsider… all sorts of things.

I love it. PvP has become a test of skill as opposed to a test of patience.

Roshambo is not a test of skill. Whoever hits first wins. This means latency and teleports win over attrition and skill.

PvP should be like a waltz. 1,2,3; 12,3. Instead, it’s just a single finale note “ta-da!”.

everyone has become a glass cannon. so much for build diversity.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Roshambo is not a test of skill. Whoever hits first wins. This means latency and teleports win over attrition and skill.

PvP should be like a waltz. 1,2,3; 12,3. Instead, it’s just a single finale note “ta-da!”.

If you or your opponent are dying , first move, every time… That’s a learn to play issue. At minimum, you have two dodges. In reality, every class has a large variety of defensive options. Skilled vs skilled actually is a waltz now. A beautiful one. Instead of a clumsy one, where screw ups go largely unpunished.

People are forgetting that when a new balance patch happens, you are not going to run the most optimal (boring) build. People want to test how far their dps goes, so obviously many classes are running burst at the moment (and for some cases condi burst). Nobody knows what the meta is because people are still trying to find what is good in a team setting. Just because a specific build destroys you 1v1 doesn’t make it universally overpowered or if a specific build lives in a teamfight doesn’t make it broken. If you look at it from a strictly conquest gamemode, the only thing that matters is team synergy which triumphs in this format.

‘Damage is way to high’ – I have to agree.
It seems damage received a major buff whilst defence/sustain remained fairly similar or was, in some cases, reduced.

Theres no healing in the game which can save you now.

Liberis.9573:

Build more defensively.

Nice one.
But building more defensively doesn’t help much when you get nuked for ~25k by stealthed kittens ;P

Damage numbers have been buffed to the point it breaks the system it was designed for? Huh, who’d have guessed power creep could do that.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Things-we-know

After a few matches I kinda hope they didn’t patch the zerker amulet.

Its super fun! To run a “bunker” or “tank” you actually need to run some tanky amulet, cele, soldiers, whatever Instead of just running cele and doing massive dmg while being neigh unkillable. I defintely like it much more. Something they MIGHT have to look into doing is add the tanky amulets they were scared of adding before, such as:

Healing Power, toughness, vitality.
Vitalty, Healingpower, Toughness

…and so on. That might work now in bunker builds. AH guardian with 1200 HP Yumm.

This game has lost the little skill it had left imo. I’ll play and have fun. But this is the end of any competitive play this game had left. There is no skill at all. For example, one auto attack from an engineer can inflict around 8 stacks of bleed and 4 burns and other condis. Where is the skill and counter play to this? The only way to avoid damage reliably is to never get hit. Which is not viable because auto attacks happen all the time. Auto attacks doing 12k are not a good thing

Lordrosicky.5813:

This game has lost the little skill it had left imo. I’ll play and have fun. But this is the end of any competitive play this game had left. There is no skill at all. For example, one auto attack from an engineer can inflict around 8 stacks of bleed and 4 burns and other condis. Where is the skill and counter play to this? The only way to avoid damage reliably is to never get hit. Which is not viable because auto attacks happen all the time. Auto attacks doing 12k are not a good thing

This is because of sigil procs and rune procs. Post your opinion in my thread i just made!

I haven’t tried a bunker spec post patch but those should be stronger as well…are you sure it’s not just most are running mostly damage specs.

I love it when something is seriously broken and some people defend that by saying “It is just a learn to play issue”.

Of course many professions got their defenses buffed, but in general to a much lesser degree than the offense has been increased. In the WvWvW roaming, the conditions were already out of control before the patch, because of + 40 / -40 condition duration consumables, perplexity runes, sinister armor etc. Now it is even worse. Fights should be more about proper positioning, feints etc. than merely a reaction test, who manages to land the attack first. There is simply too much condition reapplication from passive traits, AoE, sigils, runes etc. to cleanse them even as a trooper rune shoutbow warrior (not to mention as playing an engineer, conditions are really engi’s Achilles’ heel). Direct damage is also out of control, 5k+ auto attack from 1200+ range, warrior’s eviscerate hitting twice as hard as backstab.

Plan to Fix Things:

Arenanet must immediately balance the most problematic runes and sigils: strenght/hoelbrak/pack/balthazar/perplexity/krait runes and fire/air/energy/intelligence/doom/geomancy sigils (and similar)
Also limit the duration of stealth to 8 seconds (longer stealth than this is not needed in a skill based game as it just creates player aggravation and too easy way to reset fights).

After that they should analyze the traits and skill used after this patch and do adjustments to tone down the most overused and problematic combinations. This should happen in a 1 month time frame. Players hate to wait 1+ years to see things fixed.

Then Arenanet must address these issues:
1) communication towards the player base (especially in the WvWvW section, which more or less any dev attention, already for 1.5 years!)
2) separate solo and team (premade) queue
3) create functional MMR based leader boards (current leaderboards are frozen and don’t reflect player skill)