Guild Wars 2

Decap engi in soloQ does not work when you push far right off the bat and continue to do it right from spawn. Unless you help out where needed, you’re killing your own team.

People pushing far ALL game long does not work if the other team catches on to what you do.

Honestly I don’t even know why this needs to be discussed, it’s a selfish build which just brought skyhammer trolling into regular pvp.

JonSnow.5610:

Decap engi in soloQ does not work when you push far right off the bat and continue to do it right from spawn. Unless you help out where needed, you’re killing your own team.

People pushing far ALL game long does not work if the other team catches on to what you do.

Honestly I don’t even know why this needs to be discussed, it’s a selfish build which just brought skyhammer trolling into regular pvp.

Oh, really?
By pushing far the whole match, you’re locking down at least one person on their close point in order to keep it contested, even two if they want their node back.

If they just leave you there ignoring you, you can just go to another node and decap it.

Either you got free points or you are forcing the enemy team fight outnumbered on other nodes or you’re getting a decap or even a full cap out of a defended node. In all cases, you win.

The only way to counter an engi decapper is to send a double stability warrior to defend the node, but it’s like countering an OP build with an even more OP build, which is kinda stupid.

no you can´t just go another node when they ignore you
in soloQ this “decapclown” build is most time not working and cripple your team

when enemy team just let you sit on farpoint and go for mid and your close than your team fight outnumbered all day until YOU decide to join the fight somewhere.
But still in Teamfight you are useless and your team would still be outnumbered even when you help them^^.

and when you go for your close than fine they go mid far and you are useless again

Romek.4201:

no you can´t just go another node when they ignore you
in soloQ this “decapclown” build is most time not working and cripple your team

when enemy team just let you sit on farpoint and go for mid and your close than your team fight outnumbered all day until YOU decide to join the fight somewhere.
But still in Teamfight you are useless and your team would still be outnumbered even when you help them^^.

and when you go for your close than fine they go mid far and you are useless again

You can easily go to another node when they ignore you. The AoE CC, AoE heals and bombs aren’t useless in teamfights, don’t be silly. They provide quite good party wide healing and defensive capabilities (remember that a CCed enemy can’t attack).

Said that, your logic seems broken to me.
According to you, if whatever node you go the defender just walks away and let you cap, then you’re useless to your team..? How can this make sense?

sorrow.2364:

JonSnow.5610:

Decap engi in soloQ does not work when you push far right off the bat and continue to do it right from spawn. Unless you help out where needed, you’re killing your own team.

People pushing far ALL game long does not work if the other team catches on to what you do.

Honestly I don’t even know why this needs to be discussed, it’s a selfish build which just brought skyhammer trolling into regular pvp.

Oh, really?
By pushing far the whole match, you’re locking down at least one person on their close point in order to keep it contested, even two if they want their node back.

If they just leave you there ignoring you, you can just go to another node and decap it.

Either you got free points or you are forcing the enemy team fight outnumbered on other nodes or you’re getting a decap or even a full cap out of a defended node. In all cases, you win.

The only way to counter an engi decapper is to send a double stability warrior to defend the node, but it’s like countering an OP build with an even more OP build, which is kinda stupid.

I saw a decap engi push far all game on khylo against an MM necro, never got the decap and always got killed by a thief roaming between mid and home.

You don’t need double stability warriors if you blatantly outplay the engi.

And if the opposite team can flip the map to avoid the decap engi, you have a 4v5 while the engi sits on a point.

Decap engis are fine in team play where you can coordinate, but in Solo Q where 90% of the people don’t even know how to rotate…is a big problem.

Every solo Q game I join now has 2 decap engis and most likely 2 warriors too.

Most people in Solo Qs don’t know how to fight or deal with decap engis so they just think to pour in 3v1 against them and lose all other points…which is the total wrong way to go.

JonSnow.5610:

I saw a decap engi push far all game on khylo against an MM necro, never got the decap and always got killed by a thief roaming between mid and home.

You don’t need double stability warriors if you blatantly outplay the engi.

And if the opposite team can flip the map to avoid the decap engi, you have a 4v5 while the engi sits on a point.

That engi must be insanely bad to not get a decap against a stability-free necromancer. Anyway, anecdotes never proved anything.

sorrow.2364:

Engineer’s sustain wasn’t even close as it is now, which is relevant since we are considering a bunker build running on cleric most the times.
Elixir-Infused bombs got a quite good buff to healing power scaling.

Accelerant-Packed Turrets was moved to adept, which is an insane buff to decap bunker engis since you couldn’t take it before along with Elixir-Infused Bombs and Automated Response.

No actually he’s right—engineers have lost a lot of survivability since launch. The EIB buff was changing HP scaling from 10% to 15%.

The accelerant-packed turret trait being moved to adept was a buff, but a lot of decap engineers either don’t take the trait or don’t have any turrets.

I haven’t run decap engi for a long time but last year I used to run it as a niche build, back when I never saw another NA engineer doing it. Trust me, we were more survivable with the old smoke bomb, the old auto-elixir S, the old flamethrower kit refinement, and the old double super elixir.

But that was back when everyone was obsessed with HGH nades. People laughed at me for saying things like, “the best builds haven’t even been discovered yet.”

I strongly disagree with the OP. Decap engis are not over powered. Engis have to work much harder to accomplish things in this game than other professions do. It is downright funny really how much you can accomplish with other professions with so little work compared to an engi.

You have to button mash like a maniac to accomplish what a decap engi does. While other classes can get by with very few abilities.

I think people in this game complain to much instead of adapting. Yes decap engis are annoying and strong but they are much harder to play then…i dunno…cheese hambow.

Yes, it takes more than one person to kill a decap engi but at the same time decap engis do not do much damage. That is part of the trade off.

People forget that engis do not have much access to stability so you can slap them around like a rag doll too. So what comes around goes around. Get good, counter, and stop crying.

AphoticEssance.7592:

I strongly disagree with the OP. Decap engis are not over powered. Engis have to work much harder to accomplish things in this game than other professions do. It is downright funny really how much you can accomplish with other professions with so little work compared to an engi.

You have to button mash like a maniac to accomplish what a decap engi does. While other classes can get by with very few abilities.

I think people in this game complain to much instead of adapting. Yes decap engis are annoying and strong but they are much harder to play then…i dunno…cheese hambow.

Yes, it takes more than one person to kill a decap engi but at the same time decap engis do not do much damage. That is part of the trade off.

People forget that engis do not have much access to stability so you can slap them around like a rag doll too. So what comes around goes around. Get good, counter, and stop crying.

Sooooo wait. button smashing = skill?

josh.7390:

AphoticEssance.7592:

I strongly disagree with the OP. Decap engis are not over powered. Engis have to work much harder to accomplish things in this game than other professions do. It is downright funny really how much you can accomplish with other professions with so little work compared to an engi.

You have to button mash like a maniac to accomplish what a decap engi does. While other classes can get by with very few abilities.

I think people in this game complain to much instead of adapting. Yes decap engis are annoying and strong but they are much harder to play then…i dunno…cheese hambow.

Yes, it takes more than one person to kill a decap engi but at the same time decap engis do not do much damage. That is part of the trade off.

People forget that engis do not have much access to stability so you can slap them around like a rag doll too. So what comes around goes around. Get good, counter, and stop crying.

Sooooo wait. button smashing = skill?

Agree, it isn´t. Everything on decap engies sustain is triggered passive, it´s really not hard to play.

He´s not even participating on the match for real. Just run far like a lemming, smash all your skills + random dodges and you won´t be that bad. No need to read the game to look for where you´re needed, what propably is the most deciding part about win or loss.
It´s simply a boring and stupid abusive build, nerf/redesign AR and im happy.

Im playing engi by myself btw.

Just played a game with 5 decap engis (3 and 2 on the other side). That was a very very very uninteresting game.

Give Air Blast weakness, some damage and 0.5s cast time with animation (white smoke venting from sides)
Give Overcharged Shot more damage and less selfknockback distance, casttime to 0.5 and add animation from warrior killshot.
Engi fixed.

Ok i just met one of those op engie. And it’s crazy. 5 normal skilled players could not kill him. Why?

Passive healing. Bomb healing. Cleric kit. 3 sec toolkit invulnerability (block). Superior aoe damage that even the tankiest warrior can not facetank him.

AED!!!!!. Every 40 sec, such a burst of healing (15766 on hit tooltip). Nobody expects this, and they die because of it. Stunlocking barely keeps him at bay, he just burst more heals. When he meets you he used rifle to immobalize you wich is even more op. Dodging locked out.

And since when does bombs heal 354? That’s crazy powerfull. I haven’t used cleric with bombs, but i did use celestial trinkits one (total of 400 healing power) and they were still way below that on healing equation.

While any nerf, to kill this build will hit engineer hard (who is my main, and i’d like to keep it that way – fyi i left 4 other mains, because they were nerfed to much to my liking), I think YOU HAVE TO LOOK into this. Some pvp only nerfs must be set in place (like bomb healing). Blocking from toolkit. There must be a counter to it. It’s stronger then utility invulnerabilities AND way shorter cooldown. Combined with all of the above this is just madness. It also blocks stuns wich is lame. I mean c’mon, he’s finally in a weak spot, you can finally nail him, but then stuns dont work like they should. What’s left to kill him? Ultra zerging. Nothing else works. He outhealed 9 backstabs (and the other thief attacks on him), a warrior, guard, necro and ele. And they were all using their burst skills on him. This is close insanity. I then decided to ‘spectate him’. Guess what. His response time was arguably massively low. He made a lot of ‘micro’ mistakes. Like dodging to late, to early, using wrong kit at wrong time, failing to land pry bar, EVEN if enemy was immobalized. The list goes on. But this build is so crazy forgiving he survived ALL TRU it.

This can’t be the purpose of pvp Anet. He guarded one point in the next 3 matches, and nobody ever broke his ‘defend point’-parade. Well yeah they once managed to zerg him down, but he came back immediately with others on his side, to then burst the enemies again to pieces.

This build has no weakness. AT ALL. And this is coming from an engie who’s very scared for any nerfs. But in pvp (and i repeat pvp only, wvw/pve are way out of this), this combo is op. Because it can both protect cap point score, preventing enemy to kill you score AND add kill score to your team. This build does all the 3 possible ways in pvp to make your team win, and the enemy team fail. No other build, can do this at all. No build can protect the 3 ways to divide the score to your team so good. Every other build at least has openings to get killed. Weakness in either 1 vs 1 or in manipulating the pvp map (cap points). This doesn’t. No weakness at all. Only strengths.

Something has to be done about this, but I urge arenanet to stop the pvp/wvw downfall because of pvp nerfs. So (as an engie main, who often also plays pvp, but with a lot less complicated, healing/block powered build, by far not OP), I hope you take the right decision. This means, no pve/wvw nerfs (at all), but a serious lowering of the pvp staying power of engineer (with this specific build).

Rednik.3809:

Give Overcharged Shot more damage and less selfknockback distance, casttime to 0.5 and add animation from warrior killshot.
Engi fixed.

I’d just like to point out that Overcharged Shot is meant to clear immobilize, cripple, and chill. Adding cast time and animation will defeat the intent of that skill as a type of cc break.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Ok i just met one of those op engie. And it’s crazy. 5 normal skilled players could not kill him. Why?

Passive healing. Bomb healing. Cleric kit. 3 sec toolkit invulnerability (block). Superior aoe damage that even the tankiest warrior can not facetank him.

AED!!!!!. Every 40 sec, such a burst of healing (15766 on hit tooltip). Nobody expects this, and they die because of it. Stunlocking barely keeps him at bay, he just burst more heals. When he meets you he used rifle to immobalize you wich is even more op. Dodging locked out.

And since when does bombs heal 354? That’s crazy powerfull. I haven’t used cleric with bombs, but i did use celestial trinkits one (total of 400 healing power) and they were still way below that on healing equation.

While any nerf, to kill this build will hit engineer hard (who is my main, and i’d like to keep it that way – fyi i left 4 other mains, because they were nerfed to much to my liking), I think YOU HAVE TO LOOK into this. Some pvp only nerfs must be set in place (like bomb healing). Blocking from toolkit. There must be a counter to it. It’s stronger then utility invulnerabilities AND way shorter cooldown. Combined with all of the above this is just madness. It also blocks stuns wich is lame. I mean c’mon, he’s finally in a weak spot, you can finally nail him, but then stuns dont work like they should. What’s left to kill him? Ultra zerging. Nothing else works. He outhealed 9 backstabs (and the other thief attacks on him), a warrior, guard, necro and ele. And they were all using their burst skills on him. This is close insanity. I then decided to ‘spectate him’. Guess what. His response time was arguably massively low. He made a lot of ‘micro’ mistakes. Like dodging to late, to early, using wrong kit at wrong time, failing to land pry bar, EVEN if enemy was immobalized. The list goes on. But this build is so crazy forgiving he survived ALL TRU it.

This can’t be the purpose of pvp Anet. He guarded one point in the next 3 matches, and nobody ever broke his ‘defend point’-parade. Well yeah they once managed to zerg him down, but he came back immediately with others on his side, to then burst the enemies again to pieces.

This build has no weakness. AT ALL. And this is coming from an engie who’s very scared for any nerfs. But in pvp (and i repeat pvp only, wvw/pve are way out of this), this combo is op. Because it can both protect cap point score, preventing enemy to kill you score AND add kill score to your team. This build does all the 3 possible ways in pvp to make your team win, and the enemy team fail. No other build, can do this at all. No build can protect the 3 ways to divide the score to your team so good. Every other build at least has openings to get killed. Weakness in either 1 vs 1 or in manipulating the pvp map (cap points). This doesn’t. No weakness at all. Only strengths.

Something has to be done about this, but I urge arenanet to stop the pvp/wvw downfall because of pvp nerfs. So (as an engie main, who often also plays pvp, but with a lot less complicated, healing/block powered build, by far not OP), I hope you take the right decision. This means, no pve/wvw nerfs (at all), but a serious lowering of the pvp staying power of engineer (with this specific build).

5 players really? Common lets get real, those must of been 5 really bad players.

I swear every time people encounter something strong they just make excuses as to why they lose. They usually come on to the forums and cry nerf.

OMG it is too strong whaaa! anet please nerf it!

Decap engi is a bunker. That is what bunkers do… they I dunno….bunker. Engi just does it through troll CC. Many bunkers require more than one player (sometimes 3) to bring a him or her down. If 5 players were trying to take on this one engi and could not get him down there must of been some very bad players in that bunch. Why not rotate?

Decap engis do not do a ton of damage, and have almost no stability. A bunker with stability and a couple knock-backs could of recapped the circle or never lost the circle to begin with. Good guards rarely lose a cap to a decap engi. Every build has a counter. I really enjoy fighting a decap engi on my bunker guard it always turns out to be a great fight

Do not cry foul when somebody has the cryptonite to fight your team. It happens.

Welcome to build wars.

josh.7390:

AphoticEssance.7592:

I strongly disagree with the OP. Decap engis are not over powered. Engis have to work much harder to accomplish things in this game than other professions do. It is downright funny really how much you can accomplish with other professions with so little work compared to an engi.

You have to button mash like a maniac to accomplish what a decap engi does. While other classes can get by with very few abilities.

I think people in this game complain to much instead of adapting. Yes decap engis are annoying and strong but they are much harder to play then…i dunno…cheese hambow.

Yes, it takes more than one person to kill a decap engi but at the same time decap engis do not do much damage. That is part of the trade off.

People forget that engis do not have much access to stability so you can slap them around like a rag doll too. So what comes around goes around. Get good, counter, and stop crying.

Sooooo wait. button smashing = skill?

When I stated “button mashing” I was referring to the effort that an decap engi has to put forth to accomplish something when compared to another profession’s meta builds.

Decap engi is for the most part ft/bomb/tk. Some people use rifle some people use pistol shield for the extra blind. There are a ton of skills that you have to cycle through to avoid damage. It is a troll build for sure but does that take more or less skill than a spirit ranger or a hambow or any other meta build? Who is to say?

Decap engi can be countered by a.) rotating or b.) sending a bunker with a ton of stability to ruin his cc party. I am sure there are other direct counters as well.

I think it is important to point out that decap engi vs. guard bunker makes for a really good fight for a point in which in my experience usually ends up in the engi loosing the battle of attrition for the point.

Decap engi is a bunker and bunkers often require help when fighting them. They can be countered though. But I guess who wants to do that when they can just go to the forum and complain instead?

AphoticEssance.7592:

josh.7390:

Sooooo wait. button smashing = skill?

When I stated “button mashing” I was referring to the effort that an decap engi has to put forth to accomplish something when compared to another profession’s meta builds.

For a simple example, you have to press the heal key twice in quick succession for the overcharge when using healing turret to get the amount of healing most other classes get with just one button press. (Remember the healing amount was split between turret placement and overcharge when they moved the water field to the overcharge.)

thread should be moved to balancing forum – no dev ever look in pvp forum for this

will report for moving

AphoticEssance.7592:

When I stated “button mashing” I was referring to the effort that an decap engi has to put forth to accomplish something when compared to another profession’s meta builds.

Decap engi is for the most part ft/bomb/tk. Some people use rifle some people use pistol shield for the extra blind. There are a ton of skills that you have to cycle through to avoid damage. It is a troll build for sure but does that take more or less skill than a spirit ranger or a hambow or any other meta build? Who is to say?

Decap engi can be countered by a.) rotating or b.) sending a bunker with a ton of stability to ruin his cc party. I am sure there are other direct counters as well.

Let me guess, how much bunkers have ton of stability in standard build? Oh, thats right, zero.
And what bunker can bunk AND decap in same time? Oh, thats right, one. Engi.

AphoticEssance.7592:

josh.7390:

AphoticEssance.7592:

I strongly disagree with the OP. Decap engis are not over powered. Engis have to work much harder to accomplish things in this game than other professions do. It is downright funny really how much you can accomplish with other professions with so little work compared to an engi.

You have to button mash like a maniac to accomplish what a decap engi does. While other classes can get by with very few abilities.

I think people in this game complain to much instead of adapting. Yes decap engis are annoying and strong but they are much harder to play then…i dunno…cheese hambow.

Yes, it takes more than one person to kill a decap engi but at the same time decap engis do not do much damage. That is part of the trade off.

People forget that engis do not have much access to stability so you can slap them around like a rag doll too. So what comes around goes around. Get good, counter, and stop crying.

Sooooo wait. button smashing = skill?

When I stated “button mashing” I was referring to the effort that an decap engi has to put forth to accomplish something when compared to another profession’s meta builds.

Decap engi is for the most part ft/bomb/tk. Some people use rifle some people use pistol shield for the extra blind. There are a ton of skills that you have to cycle through to avoid damage. It is a troll build for sure but does that take more or less skill than a spirit ranger or a hambow or any other meta build? Who is to say?

Decap engi can be countered by a.) rotating or b.) sending a bunker with a ton of stability to ruin his cc party. I am sure there are other direct counters as well.

I think it is important to point out that decap engi vs. guard bunker makes for a really good fight for a point in which in my experience usually ends up in the engi loosing the battle of attrition for the point.

Decap engi is a bunker and bunkers often require help when fighting them. They can be easily countered though. But I guess who wants to do that when they can just go to the forum and complain instead?

It still is button smashing. With the amount off cc, espically instant cc you have, you dont even need to time your skills. At least to be effective. Of course a good player will accomplish more, but…

Aaaand nope. A bunker guard will loose the node against a decapper. 100% sure. Its the best situation you can come into as decap engi. The enemies support is wasted on a alrdy lost 1v1..

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Ok i just met one of those op engie. And it’s crazy. 5 normal skilled players could not kill him. Why?

Passive healing. Bomb healing. Cleric kit. 3 sec toolkit invulnerability (block). Superior aoe damage that even the tankiest warrior can not facetank him.

AED!!!!!. Every 40 sec, such a burst of healing (15766 on hit tooltip). Nobody expects this, and they die because of it. Stunlocking barely keeps him at bay, he just burst more heals. When he meets you he used rifle to immobalize you wich is even more op. Dodging locked out.

And since when does bombs heal 354? That’s crazy powerfull. I haven’t used cleric with bombs, but i did use celestial trinkits one (total of 400 healing power) and they were still way below that on healing equation.

While any nerf, to kill this build will hit engineer hard (who is my main, and i’d like to keep it that way – fyi i left 4 other mains, because they were nerfed to much to my liking), I think YOU HAVE TO LOOK into this. Some pvp only nerfs must be set in place (like bomb healing). Blocking from toolkit. There must be a counter to it. It’s stronger then utility invulnerabilities AND way shorter cooldown. Combined with all of the above this is just madness. It also blocks stuns wich is lame. I mean c’mon, he’s finally in a weak spot, you can finally nail him, but then stuns dont work like they should. What’s left to kill him? Ultra zerging. Nothing else works. He outhealed 9 backstabs (and the other thief attacks on him), a warrior, guard, necro and ele. And they were all using their burst skills on him. This is close insanity. I then decided to ‘spectate him’. Guess what. His response time was arguably massively low. He made a lot of ‘micro’ mistakes. Like dodging to late, to early, using wrong kit at wrong time, failing to land pry bar, EVEN if enemy was immobalized. The list goes on. But this build is so crazy forgiving he survived ALL TRU it.

This can’t be the purpose of pvp Anet. He guarded one point in the next 3 matches, and nobody ever broke his ‘defend point’-parade. Well yeah they once managed to zerg him down, but he came back immediately with others on his side, to then burst the enemies again to pieces.

This build has no weakness. AT ALL. And this is coming from an engie who’s very scared for any nerfs. But in pvp (and i repeat pvp only, wvw/pve are way out of this), this combo is op. Because it can both protect cap point score, preventing enemy to kill you score AND add kill score to your team. This build does all the 3 possible ways in pvp to make your team win, and the enemy team fail. No other build, can do this at all. No build can protect the 3 ways to divide the score to your team so good. Every other build at least has openings to get killed. Weakness in either 1 vs 1 or in manipulating the pvp map (cap points). This doesn’t. No weakness at all. Only strengths.

Something has to be done about this, but I urge arenanet to stop the pvp/wvw downfall because of pvp nerfs. So (as an engie main, who often also plays pvp, but with a lot less complicated, healing/block powered build, by far not OP), I hope you take the right decision. This means, no pve/wvw nerfs (at all), but a serious lowering of the pvp staying power of engineer (with this specific build).

5 normal-skilled players? lol.

EIB is actually a active heal with bombs, so is definitely useless while being CCed or swap to other weapon. While a banner heal bunker warrior could get Healing Signet heals 453/sec, and get about total 800~900/sec passive heal (with 1223 healing power). And warrior have higher HP pool & armor, 2 stability and alot of CC skills with hammer/ mace+shield/Banner of Defense(1 AoE stun, 2 knockback, 1 knockdown, 1 daze, 2 block). It’s possible to a bunker warrior to counter with a decap engi, though those 2 knockback skills only push 180 range. (Rifle can push 400 range, but it’s not that good to a bunker warrior.)

A.E.D, is imposible to heal 15766 in PVP mode, its limit actually is 15097(with 1638 healing power).It’s easy to interrupt it since its 1 sec cast time and it’s not a good skill while you traited AR. Block also could be canceled by pull, unblockable fear/knockback(Warden skills, Throw Mine and Unsteady Ground)/stun(Static Field). If there’s any skilled thief/mesmer/guard/engi/warrior/ele/necro, it’s should be easy to kill him with “5” ppl.

Btw, if a decap Engi want to CC you with rifle or flamethower, they need face you first(despite using Big O’l Bomb and Throw Mine), so it’s possible to dodge/block/LoS rifle and flamethrower skills if they suddenly dodge/face you/use Gear Shield/stealth. But imo, maybe only those top-skilled ppl with lower ping can do that easily.

josh.7390:

AphoticEssance.7592:

josh.7390:

AphoticEssance.7592:

I strongly disagree with the OP. Decap engis are not over powered. Engis have to work much harder to accomplish things in this game than other professions do. It is downright funny really how much you can accomplish with other professions with so little work compared to an engi.

You have to button mash like a maniac to accomplish what a decap engi does. While other classes can get by with very few abilities.

I think people in this game complain to much instead of adapting. Yes decap engis are annoying and strong but they are much harder to play then…i dunno…cheese hambow.

Yes, it takes more than one person to kill a decap engi but at the same time decap engis do not do much damage. That is part of the trade off.

People forget that engis do not have much access to stability so you can slap them around like a rag doll too. So what comes around goes around. Get good, counter, and stop crying.

Sooooo wait. button smashing = skill?

When I stated “button mashing” I was referring to the effort that an decap engi has to put forth to accomplish something when compared to another profession’s meta builds.

Decap engi is for the most part ft/bomb/tk. Some people use rifle some people use pistol shield for the extra blind. There are a ton of skills that you have to cycle through to avoid damage. It is a troll build for sure but does that take more or less skill than a spirit ranger or a hambow or any other meta build? Who is to say?

Decap engi can be countered by a.) rotating or b.) sending a bunker with a ton of stability to ruin his cc party. I am sure there are other direct counters as well.

I think it is important to point out that decap engi vs. guard bunker makes for a really good fight for a point in which in my experience usually ends up in the engi loosing the battle of attrition for the point.

Decap engi is a bunker and bunkers often require help when fighting them. They can be easily countered though. But I guess who wants to do that when they can just go to the forum and complain instead?

It still is button smashing. with the amount off cc, espically instant cc you have, you dont need even need to time your skills. At least to be effective. Of course a good player will accomplish more, but…

Aaaand nope. A bunker guard will loose the node against a decapper. 100% sure. Its the best situation you can come into as decap engi. The enemies support is wasted on a alrdy lost 1v1..

Everything is button mashing if you look at it that way. You act like an engi is just blindly clicking on abilities to decap.

I understand the frustration with decap engis I really do. It is a troll build that is effective at decapping. But I do not think you should be upset that engi are really strong at decapping. That would be like engis being mad because guards make better mid point bunkers. I think we as a community need to stop yelling nerf every time there is a FOTM. Somebody will come up with a counter that is how metas are made.

I main engi but I also play guard as my second main. Perhaps that is why I have been able to counter a decap engi many times. I am no pro I just see what kit or ability they are using and I assume the outcome. Sure I am not 100% going to win or keep a point vs a decap engi that is what makes it fun.

I can and have won points vs decap engis. I am not even that good at guard yet so I assume that there are higher success rates against decap engis for seasoned guardian veterans.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Ok i just met one of those op engie. And it’s crazy. 5 normal skilled players could not kill him. Why?

Because you’re bad.
I have 10hours on my Necro but still kill a decap engi in 5seconds if he has already engaged combat with another guy in my team. Sure, it takes 2 people, but there is no way 5 “normal skilled players” can’t kill it.

And still no answers from devs. Guess Player vs Point deemed as perfectly normal playstyle.

Romek.4201:

thread should be moved to balancing forum – no dev ever look in pvp forum for this

will report for moving

Well they just don’t care about balance wherever the posts are imo xD

Rednik.3809:

And still no answers from devs. Guess Player vs Point deemed as perfectly normal playstyle.

I’ve played against Grouch on a decap engi in team Q. I assume that decap engis are perfectly valid in Anet’s eyes.

Amaterasu.6280:

Rednik.3809:

And still no answers from devs. Guess Player vs Point deemed as perfectly normal playstyle.

I’ve played against Grouch on a decap engi in team Q. I assume that decap engis are perfectly valid in Anet’s eyes.

or he is testing this bullkitten build to can talk about …

There sure is a lot of misinformation in this thread. Decap Engi has far too many weaknesses to be considered OP in my eyes. Compare it to a build that is actually OP with little to no weaknesses (Hambow) really puts it into perspective. A decap Engi is simply an effective bunker with more weaknesses and more CC than the average bunker. Call it a higher risk/reward bunker.

I don’t play one, but I’m sure just because I have Engineer in my signature this post has already been ignored and about to be flamed. Such is the way of the sPvP forums!

Adamantium.3682:

There sure is a lot of misinformation in this thread. Decap Engi has far too many weaknesses to be considered OP in my eyes. Compare it to a build that is actually OP with little to no weaknesses (Hambow) really puts it into perspective. A decap Engi is simply an effective bunker with more weaknesses and more CC than the average bunker. Call it a higher risk/reward bunker.

I don’t play one, but I’m sure just because I have Engineer in my signature this post has already been ignored and about to be flamed. Such is the way of the sPvP forums!

“Higher risk and higher reward” HAHAHAHAHAHA

Adamantium,
Misinformation combined with ignorance as well. I had a hambow warrior tell me I was using Bomb Kit. I think he mistook Acid Bomb from Elixir Gun for the AoE from a bomb.

Adamantium.3682:

Call it a higher risk/reward bunker.

Oh boy, here we go. Plz show me other bunker who can run to capped node, decap it and cap it for himself.
Protip: you can’t. Other bunker can only contest it without decap and die after reinforcements will arrive (or even better, enemy will ignore him. Point still capped, enemy bunker not participating in fights/point defense – awesome!).

Adamantium.3682:

There sure is a lot of misinformation in this thread. Decap Engi has far too many weaknesses to be considered OP in my eyes. Compare it to a build that is actually OP with little to no weaknesses (Hambow) really puts it into perspective. A decap Engi is simply an effective bunker with more weaknesses and more CC than the average bunker. Call it a higher risk/reward bunker.

I don’t play one, but I’m sure just because I have Engineer in my signature this post has already been ignored and about to be flamed. Such is the way of the sPvP forums!

both are rather straightforward, the warrior is more telegraphed (aside from current pin down/ hammer 4)

counterplay > everything else

ban asura/ or preferably add option to make everyone human please

I seriously think someone here doesn’t really know what high risk – high reward actually means…go try d/p thief or shatter mesmer maybe and you’ll get the difference..

Archaon.6245:

I seriously think someone here doesn’t really know what high risk – high reward actually means…go try d/p thief or shatter mesmer maybe and you’ll get the difference..

I seriously think a lot of people here would rather complain about something to change so they don’t have to figure out how to deal with it themselves.

Decap Engis demystified: Very little condition removal (and when they’re immune it’s at 4k health, you should be able to CC and kill at that point not to mention whatever existing conditions you have on them). No stun breaks or stability. If you have any decent length stability you’ve suddenly rendered a decap Engi useless (which is most of the other 7 professions). These are things you can take advantage of against a decap Engi that no one complaining about them cares to talk about.

But like I said it’s flame on rather than actually try to be constructive.

Adamantium.3682:

Archaon.6245:

I seriously think someone here doesn’t really know what high risk – high reward actually means…go try d/p thief or shatter mesmer maybe and you’ll get the difference..

I seriously think a lot of people here would rather complain about something to change so they don’t have to figure out how to deal with it themselves.

Decap Engis demystified: Very little condition removal (and when they’re immune it’s at 4k health, you should be able to CC and kill at that point not to mention whatever existing conditions you have on them). No stun breaks or stability. If you have any decent length stability you’ve suddenly rendered a decap Engi useless (which is most of the other 7 professions). These are things you can take advantage of against a decap Engi that no one complaining about them cares to talk about.

But like I said it’s flame on rather than actually try to be constructive.

no

25% its more like 5-6k or even more health + PROTECTION what reduce damage by 50% means this hp are more like 10-12k
+ perma regneration (double worth cause protection)
+ endless dodges (reduce damage by 100%)
+ SPAM knockbacks, BLINDS and other CCs to reduce even more incoming damage
+ whatever i forgot

all this gives the decap engineer more EFFECTIVE hp on this 25% than other classes ever will have

so stop with your 4k hp blablabla and use your brain

Enough Said.

!http://imgur.com/u9fpcyc!

aussieheals.6843:

Enough Said.

!http://imgur.com/u9fpcyc!

Mind: blown.
The only solution to decap Engi is to have a decent D/P thief “bunk” home. Even so, if the Engi has supply crate he will still get a decap.
Warriors could do, but they will have their stability stripped easily with the mines. Spirit Ranger gets decapped and will even let the engi full cap it. MM necro will get decapped if the Engi is running bombs. Guardian will get decap+fullcap. Mesmer will get decap.
Condi necro MAY be another couter, but again, with Supply Crate the engi will still surely decap, and maybe EVEN full cap.

The problem I see is that not only the build requires very few skill to be played correctly, but it’s the fact that the most effective way to play it is to just run far every game. This way, the decision making of the player (which is the main factor in determining the true value of a player in a PvP match) gets completely deleted. Spirit Ranger and MM necros ARE easier to play for sure, but even then they still have to take some decisions every now and then. Decap engi throws everything away and it’s just “run far, decap, stay alive”.

aussieheals.6843:

Enough Said.

!http://imgur.com/u9fpcyc!

Well, Skyhammer is another Problem :P

if you have a power necro, send him to defend close. Lich form will guarantee a kill pretty much always for all but the best engis.. If lich form is on cd, a good power necro can still kill the engi relatively easy.

DuranArgith.1354:

if you have a power necro, send him to defend close. Lich form will guarantee a kill pretty much always. If lich form is on cd, a good power necro can still kill the engi relatively easy.

On the other hand a power-necro is not a safe-play for close-point. Counter such a build just cripples your own setup and strategy.

Every match starts out the same: “Pushing far, do not come and help me. It will take at least 2 or 3 to kill me” “You should easily win home and defend middle” Not kidding, like EVERY match.

I see more engi than warriors now o_O

great to hear and i hope this patch is not to far away cause this decapengi thing is like a plaque and everyday i see more

(most time they have champion legionar title^^)

Romek.4201:

great to hear and i hope this patch is not to far away cause this decapengi thing is like a plaque and everyday i see more

(most time they have champion legionar title^^)

Nothing is going to be done for the upcoming patch. They already have a full list of items to implement and he is just now writing the team about it. So, next feature patch in June we will have something I’m sure.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Amaterasu.6280:

Rednik.3809:

And still no answers from devs. Guess Player vs Point deemed as perfectly normal playstyle.

I’ve played against Grouch on a decap engi in team Q. I assume that decap engis are perfectly valid in Anet’s eyes.

Hey guys,

Just wanted to pop in here and mention that one of the ways for us to access a build’s strength is to get in and play it ourselves. Grouch playing decap doesn’t correlate with the balance team thinking this build is in a good place in sPvP. You’d be surprised how some of us feel about it in reality.

I thought you guys should know I’m writing an e-mail to the team as we speak about its prevalence and perception in the game. You guys have done a great job messaging out against the build, it’s gotten our attention. No promises on things changing about this build in the near future but you might see some things get better/worse with the secret changes coming in for the feature build that will potentially address this.

Thanks again for all the discussion on various topics. It may seem as if we don’t read these forums anymore but in reality we have a very loaded patch we’ve been slaving on for the past few months.

-Tyler

… and while anet devs still try to understand what is happening with decap engies and will do something about in the future, and we know it will take a while, i’ll lame with this build ruining the game of all other players like all other decap engies ruined mine using this build hoping someone will quit the game or the spvp. Enjoy

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Just wanted to pop in here and mention that one of the ways for us to access a build’s strength is to get in and play it ourselves. Grouch playing decap doesn’t correlate with the balance team thinking this build is in a good place in sPvP. You’d be surprised how some of us feel about it in reality.

I thought you guys should know I’m writing an e-mail to the team as we speak about its prevalence and perception in the game. You guys have done a great job messaging out against the build, it’s gotten our attention. No promises on things changing about this build in the near future but you might see some things get better/worse with the secret changes coming in for the feature build that will potentially address this.

-Tyler

Thanks for the reply, Tyler. This is my interpretation, reading between the lines (I might be correct or wrong):

The new secret changes will bring new spvp/tpvp game modes, possibly long-awaited team death match etc. Decap engi would be a bad build for other game modes. Decap engi also doesn’t make any sense in pve or WvWvW.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Amaterasu.6280:

Rednik.3809:

And still no answers from devs. Guess Player vs Point deemed as perfectly normal playstyle.

I’ve played against Grouch on a decap engi in team Q. I assume that decap engis are perfectly valid in Anet’s eyes.

Hey guys,

Just wanted to pop in here and mention that one of the ways for us to access a build’s strength is to get in and play it ourselves. Grouch playing decap doesn’t correlate with the balance team thinking this build is in a good place in sPvP. You’d be surprised how some of us feel about it in reality.

I thought you guys should know I’m writing an e-mail to the team as we speak about its prevalence and perception in the game. You guys have done a great job messaging out against the build, it’s gotten our attention. No promises on things changing about this build in the near future but you might see some things get better/worse with the secret changes coming in for the feature build that will potentially address this.

Thanks again for all the discussion on various topics. It may seem as if we don’t read these forums anymore but in reality we have a very loaded patch we’ve been slaving on for the past few months.

-Tyler

Finally nerf AR and the job is done. Takes you 5 minutes instead of 1 year again.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Amaterasu.6280:

Rednik.3809:

And still no answers from devs. Guess Player vs Point deemed as perfectly normal playstyle.

I’ve played against Grouch on a decap engi in team Q. I assume that decap engis are perfectly valid in Anet’s eyes.

Hey guys,

Just wanted to pop in here and mention that one of the ways for us to access a build’s strength is to get in and play it ourselves. Grouch playing decap doesn’t correlate with the balance team thinking this build is in a good place in sPvP. You’d be surprised how some of us feel about it in reality.

I thought you guys should know I’m writing an e-mail to the team as we speak about its prevalence and perception in the game. You guys have done a great job messaging out against the build, it’s gotten our attention. No promises on things changing about this build in the near future but you might see some things get better/worse with the secret changes coming in for the feature build that will potentially address this.

Thanks again for all the discussion on various topics. It may seem as if we don’t read these forums anymore but in reality we have a very loaded patch we’ve been slaving on for the past few months.

-Tyler

FINALLY! thanks powerr.
Some final thoughts:

I am one of the most hated people on NA atm JUST from playing decap (aka bringing decap engi to NA)
The build hard counters 7 professions in a 1v1. end of story. thieve are possible to beat as well but much much harder.

Dont nerf it the wrong way. Dont take away from every other engi build that uses those utilities. The issue isn’t with boon rip the issue isn’t with cc or immob… the problem is 100 percent automated response. I played decap with nerfing AR in mind. It is the ONLY reason the build exists. This specific one. Any engi can decap with rifle alone. Any profession can decap if they bring CC utilities. But without AR they cannot bunker vs condi pressure forever. Hell I’ve had 1v3 1v-4 for 6-15 minutes just because a bunker + 2-3 condi professions couldn’t out damage my regen BECAUSE AR

TLDR:
Dont nerf engi’s the wrong way. Remove Immunities (diamond skin and nerf zerker stance). Hard counters ruin any competitive play.

Elephantitas.

also as a side note:
I had elephantitas for over a year. Played decap engi and I got name banned 3 times within 2 weeks. Thats how bad people hate decap engi… Thanks again powerr for getting this to the devs.