Guild Wars 2

If Engi loose the Decap Build and become
an other strong Build like
CC, survivability, mightstacks, Condicleans + Immunity (wait, Hambow?)
or
“perma evade”, boonrip, high mobility (2 ports or more), rezzsuport (wait, Thief?)
or
Condicleanse for Group, stability, a lot of Blocks/immunity (wait, Guard?)
or
Easy to play-1-1-1-1-1, Party-rezz, surivability (evades), Burnproccs, CC (Knockdown/immo) …. (wait, Hunter?)

If we become somthing like that, i have absolute no problem to loose the Decap-Build.

Lescansy.6174:

Easy to play 2-3-4-5, Party-rezz, surivability (blocks and healing), Burnproccs, CC (Knockdown/immo) …. (wait, Engineer?)

Wow you even had what you wanted the entire time.

AphoticEssance.7592:

I strongly disagree with the OP. Decap engis are not over powered. Engis have to work much harder to accomplish things in this game than other professions do. It is downright funny really how much you can accomplish with other professions with so little work compared to an engi.

This post wins for the most laughable. Bunker engis are the EASIEST class to play in the game right now. They take ZERO skill. It is funny how strong they are.

glaphen.5230:

Lescansy.6174:

Easy to play 2-3-4-5, Party-rezz, surivability (blocks and healing), Burnproccs, CC (Knockdown/immo) …. (wait, Engineer?)

Wow you even had what you wanted the entire time.

Decap Engi don’t have a Party-rezz and Burnproccs in this Build. He can’t kill a Guard (like Ranger).

Nerfing AR is not enough. Without AR, you can still decap and even cap against most professions if not all and CC is a great defensive tool against power or condition.

Romek.4201:

Adamantium.3682:

Archaon.6245:

I seriously think someone here doesn’t really know what high risk – high reward actually means…go try d/p thief or shatter mesmer maybe and you’ll get the difference..

I seriously think a lot of people here would rather complain about something to change so they don’t have to figure out how to deal with it themselves.

Decap Engis demystified: Very little condition removal (and when they’re immune it’s at 4k health, you should be able to CC and kill at that point not to mention whatever existing conditions you have on them). No stun breaks or stability. If you have any decent length stability you’ve suddenly rendered a decap Engi useless (which is most of the other 7 professions). These are things you can take advantage of against a decap Engi that no one complaining about them cares to talk about.

But like I said it’s flame on rather than actually try to be constructive.

no

25% its more like 5-6k or even more health + PROTECTION what reduce damage by 50% means this hp are more like 10-12k
+ perma regneration (double worth cause protection)
+ endless dodges (reduce damage by 100%)
+ SPAM knockbacks, BLINDS and other CCs to reduce even more incoming damage
+ whatever i forgot

all this gives the decap engineer more EFFECTIVE hp on this 25% than other classes ever will have

so stop with your 4k hp blablabla and use your brain

Thank you so much for this post, because it perfectly explains what I’m talking about. People are coming to the forums complaining about something they really have not taken the time to even understand how it works.

Protection does not reduce damage by 50%. This is a core mechanic of game, if you don’t understand this it ruins the credibility of the rest of your post. The Engineer also has nothing even close to perma Protection. Their only source is 2 traits, each with very low duration. One activates on an incoming CC (cooldown 5 seconds), the other with incoming crit (cooldown 20 seconds). Each has a duration less than 4 seconds, so unless you’re CCing the Engineer every 5 seconds (in which case you are going to kill him anyways) you aren’t going to see that much protection.

Engineers do not have perma regeneration in this build, but at 25% they will get Regeneration. It is not “worth double” either.

Engineers do not have endless dodges. Assuming this is hyperbole anyways, Engineers do not even have that many dodges anymore. Engineers do not have perma Vigor as some professions do, and this build may or may not use the one source of Vigor we do have. Best case scenario it’s 50% uptime on Vigor.

This is case in point as to why I think a lot of the complaints in this thread are formed from a lack of knowledge, and a desire to just have it fixed for them instead of actually trying to adapt.

AR is NOT the problem with this spec. It is the amount of heals that is the issue.

Everyone seems to have a variation on this build and they don’t always include AR. So I’m hopeful that whatever changes are in store will nerf the meta that created decap engi rather than any specific thing on engi (along with hambow warrior, etc.) since, let’s be honest, it was the meta that created it.

Lescansy.6174:

glaphen.5230:

Lescansy.6174:

Easy to play 2-3-4-5, Party-rezz, surivability (blocks and healing), Burnproccs, CC (Knockdown/immo) …. (wait, Engineer?)

Wow you even had what you wanted the entire time.

Decap Engi don’t have a Party-rezz and Burnproccs in this Build. He can’t kill a Guard (like Ranger).

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_R
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Incendiary_Powder

I never said anything about decap but most Engineers who aren’t use Incendiary Powder and some use Toss Elixir R.

aussieheals.6843:

Enough Said.

!http://imgur.com/u9fpcyc!

I still wonder when anet looks at those matches, if they even look at something ofc, what the jusus freaking christ kitten are they thinking? Oh look engis everywhere sending ppl flying like ping-pong balls all over stupid skykitten…no problem, this is totally fine…let’s go back to pve events

Anyway still trying to find an engi-proof close defender…only decent options outside double stability war seem to be power necro and s/p/d thief but as far as i can see they’re not so engi-proof vs a decapper who knows how to use his skills just a bit above random spam level (Thx god 80% of those engis around don’t even know wtf are they doing)

The real question is if there’s something that you can leave at close vs a decap engi being sure you’re not going to lose that point? (Considering same skill level, spammer decapper vs spammer something else and good decapper vs good something else)

This is for both personal interest and for helping ppl out of this kitten meta..

Your opinions down here folks

Archaon.6245:

Anyway still trying to find an engi-proof close defender…only decent options outside double stability war seem to be power necro and s/p/d thief but as far as i can see they’re not so engi-proof vs a decapper who knows how to use his skills just a bit above random spam level (Thx god 80% of those engis around don’t even know wtf are they doing)

The real question is if is there something that you can leave at close vs a decap engi being sure you’re not going to lose that point? (Considering same skill level, spammer decapper vs spammer something else and good decapper vs good something else)

This is for both personal interest and for helping ppl out of this kitten meta..

I think that if the engi has Supply Drop ready, the decap will be pretty much guaranteed against any class.
Aside from this, it turns out with how fast (and reliably) can you KILL the engi before he gets a decap. And this depends on the build the engi is using.

If he is running mines, Flamethrower and TK, a MM Necro could be able to kill him.
If he is running bombs, Flamethrower and TK, a Hambow should be enough (and could even prevent the decap if he is double stability+lyssa).
If he is running bombs, Flamethrower and mines (rare) he has no defense whatsoever, and I think a S/D thief could kill him fast enough to prevent the decap.

my 2c

Archaon.6245:

Anyway still trying to find an engi-proof close defender…only decent options outside double stability war seem to be power necro and s/p/d thief but as far as i can see they’re not so engi-proof vs a decapper who knows how to use his skills just a bit above random spam level (Thx god 80% of those engis around don’t even know wtf are they doing)

The real question is if there’s something that you can leave at close vs a decap engi being sure you’re not going to lose that point? (Considering same skill level, spammer decapper vs spammer something else and good decapper vs good something else)

This is for both personal interest and for helping ppl out of this kitten meta..

Your opinions down here folks

leave another engineer, i play HGH zerker engineer and i haven’t had any problems beating them on a point fight.

hihey.1075:

Archaon.6245:

Anyway still trying to find an engi-proof close defender…only decent options outside double stability war seem to be power necro and s/p/d thief but as far as i can see they’re not so engi-proof vs a decapper who knows how to use his skills just a bit above random spam level (Thx god 80% of those engis around don’t even know wtf are they doing)

The real question is if is there something that you can leave at close vs a decap engi being sure you’re not going to lose that point? (Considering same skill level, spammer decapper vs spammer something else and good decapper vs good something else)

This is for both personal interest and for helping ppl out of this kitten meta..

I think that if the engi has Supply Drop ready, the decap will be pretty much guaranteed against any class.
Aside from this, it turns out with how fast (and reliably) can you KILL the engi before he gets a decap. And this depends on the build the engi is using.

If he is running mines, Flamethrower and TK, a MM Necro could be able to kill him.
If he is running bombs, Flamethrower and TK, a Hambow should be enough (and could even prevent the decap if he is double stability+lyssa).
If he is running bombs, Flamethrower and mines (rare) he has no defense whatsoever, and I think a S/D thief could kill him fast enough to prevent the decap.

my 2c

For engi-proof i mean no decap..just able to keep point (Either by standing on it fighting forever or by killing the engi before he can decap)…anything that is going to lose point (And for lose i mean decapped) can’t be considered engi-proof cause if you kill him you still have to sit there getting it back and losing time (And he’s probably coming back forever if he knows he can decap, even if he’s going to die eventually) or if you can’t kill him you need backup to get rid of dat rat getting your point back (While being outnumbered somewhere else)…and both are bad options in tpvp and he already won in both cases..

Archaon.6245:

hihey.1075:

Archaon.6245:

Anyway still trying to find an engi-proof close defender…only decent options outside double stability war seem to be power necro and s/p/d thief but as far as i can see they’re not so engi-proof vs a decapper who knows how to use his skills just a bit above random spam level (Thx god 80% of those engis around don’t even know wtf are they doing)

The real question is if is there something that you can leave at close vs a decap engi being sure you’re not going to lose that point? (Considering same skill level, spammer decapper vs spammer something else and good decapper vs good something else)

This is for both personal interest and for helping ppl out of this kitten meta..

I think that if the engi has Supply Drop ready, the decap will be pretty much guaranteed against any class.
Aside from this, it turns out with how fast (and reliably) can you KILL the engi before he gets a decap. And this depends on the build the engi is using.

If he is running mines, Flamethrower and TK, a MM Necro could be able to kill him.
If he is running bombs, Flamethrower and TK, a Hambow should be enough (and could even prevent the decap if he is double stability+lyssa).
If he is running bombs, Flamethrower and mines (rare) he has no defense whatsoever, and I think a S/D thief could kill him fast enough to prevent the decap.

my 2c

For engi-proof i mean no decap..just able to keep point (Either by standing on it fighting forever or by killing the engi before he can decap)…anything that is going to lose point (And for lose i mean decapped) can’t be considered engi-proof u.u

The longer you fight on point, the higher the probablity of getting decapped. The cooldowns on the engi’s KB are too short and it only takes one of them+netshot to almost guarantee a decap if the point has no walls. S/D thief is good because he has ports (Infiltrator Signet+Steal+Infiltrator Strike) that can counter the Knockbacks and enough DPS to kill the engi fast (assuming the thief to be good at least). He could even manage to take down a lot of the engi’s HP before the engi gets to the point.

Keep in mind though, with Supply Drop a decap is ALMOST guaranteed against any class.

after reading all the posts from various good players IE ken and clueless players IE jin i will say this….. Decap engi is and most likely always will be a joke at “top tier”, whether or not you call the best teams on NA that or not idc…. It is hard countered by d/p thief as well as 4 stab warrior… I recall playing your pug last night and the second you saw wakkey u had to swap classes, and u still went 0-3 vs him…. the build is not only pointless but an embarrassment to PVP as a whole…. i understand its usefulness in solo q where correct rotations are a rare occurrence, but vs coordinated teams it will get “juggled” and prove itself useless…. the reason it “worked” in EU is becasue its an extremely different play style where teams are more likely to zerg than fight even fights, often leaving bunkers to 1v2 and 1v3… this is possibly the reason it “worked” in EU, but in NA where even numbered fights take place your build is useless, not only can u never fullcap a warrior, but you will eventually die to one, secondly as ken stated a thief can decap and get back to the fight 10x faster and has other purposes…. also what happens if your team is 5v4… u cant teamfight with your build at all so your team will lose the teamfight rather quickly then they can 1v2 or 1v3 you while your team re spawns #GG Please stop calling this build good, it provides a false sense of skill and only works against “bad” players and uncoordinated teams… Seeing as that is who you play often, HF and enjoy not succeeding top tier! Love Backpack aka Not useless Engi

Mike.4830:

after reading all the posts from various good players IE ken and clueless players IE jin i will say this….. Decap engi is and most likely always will be a joke at “top tier”, whether or not you call the best teams on NA that or not idc…. It is hard countered by d/p thief as well as 4 stab warrior… I recall playing your pug last night and the second you saw wakkey u had to swap classes, and u still went 0-3 vs him…. the build is not only pointless but an embarrassment to PVP as a whole…. i understand its usefulness in solo q where correct rotations are a rare occurrence, but vs coordinated teams it will get “juggled” and prove itself useless…. the reason it “worked” in EU is becasue its an extremely different play style where teams are more likely to zerg than fight even fights, often leaving bunkers to 1v2 and 1v3… this is possibly the reason it “worked” in EU, but in NA where even numbered fights take place your build is useless, not only can u never fullcap a warrior, but you will eventually die to one, secondly as ken stated a thief can decap and get back to the fight 10x faster and has other purposes…. also what happens if your team is 5v4… u cant teamfight with your build at all so your team will lose the teamfight rather quickly then they can 1v2 or 1v3 you while your team re spawns #GG Please stop calling this build good, it provides a false sense of skill and only works against “bad” players and uncoordinated teams… Seeing as that is who you play often, HF and enjoy not succeeding top tier! Love Backpack aka Not useless Engi

Decap engi is not meant to full cap..once he got the point neutral 1v1 he already won, dunno what do you mean by “even” fights but if point is yours and someone can manage to neutralize it in less than 20 secs while you can do pretty much nothing i call it everything but unuseful…and anyway about NA playstyle i still remember when someone called Teldo (One of the few players who deserve capital letter into my posts) used to make a mess with bomb-decap engi vs your “top” NA teams, let’s say that you in NA are just lucky ppl don’t play lame meta so much cause in terms of pure effectiveness NA is still miles behind….just take a look at international tournaments…do you have a more enjoyable meta? Maybe. Do you have stronger meta? Oh god…don’t think so…there’s a reason why top international teams had always been EU

Mike.4830:

Archaon.6245:

Mike.4830:

after reading all the posts from various good players IE ken and clueless players IE jin i will say this….. Decap engi is and most likely always will be a joke at “top tier”, whether or not you call the best teams on NA that or not idc…. It is hard countered by d/p thief as well as 4 stab warrior… I recall playing your pug last night and the second you saw wakkey u had to swap classes, and u still went 0-3 vs him…. the build is not only pointless but an embarrassment to PVP as a whole…. i understand its usefulness in solo q where correct rotations are a rare occurrence, but vs coordinated teams it will get “juggled” and prove itself useless…. the reason it “worked” in EU is becasue its an extremely different play style where teams are more likely to zerg than fight even fights, often leaving bunkers to 1v2 and 1v3… this is possibly the reason it “worked” in EU, but in NA where even numbered fights take place your build is useless, not only can u never fullcap a warrior, but you will eventually die to one, secondly as ken stated a thief can decap and get back to the fight 10x faster and has other purposes…. also what happens if your team is 5v4… u cant teamfight with your build at all so your team will lose the teamfight rather quickly then they can 1v2 or 1v3 you while your team re spawns #GG Please stop calling this build good, it provides a false sense of skill and only works against “bad” players and uncoordinated teams… Seeing as that is who you play often, HF and enjoy not succeeding top tier! Love Backpack aka Not useless Engi

Decap engi is not meant to full cap..once he got the point neutral 1v1 he already won, dunno what do you mean by “even” fights but if point is yours and someone can manage to neutralize it in less than 20 secs while you can do pretty much nothing i call it everything but unuseful…and anyway about NA playstyle i still remember when someone called Teldo (One of the few players who deserve capital letter into my posts) used to make a mess with bomb-decap engi vs your “top” NA teams, let’s say that you in NA are just lucky ppl don’t play lame meta so much cause in terms of pure effectiveness NA is still miles behind….just take a look at international tournaments…do you have a more enjoyable meta? Maybe. Do you have stronger meta? Oh god…don’t think so…there’s a reason why top international teams had always been EU

SO even if a decap is achieved you’re practically afk 1v1 on their neutral point for 20s (until warrior kills you) meanwhile in 20s a thief could have decaped your point gotten back to fight and ganked someone gg? Your statement for NA might be true, but the teams that beat NA don’t run a decap engi (CM, 55hp monks, etc) and Teldo wasnt a decap engi, he was a 1v1 engi, He could win fights as well as decap, not just bunker 1v1 (entirely different concept/send a warrior in this meta and Teldo wouldnt win)

Mike.4830:

after reading all the posts from various good players IE ken and clueless players IE jin i will say this….. Decap engi is and most likely always will be a joke at “top tier”, whether or not you call the best teams on NA that or not idc…. It is hard countered by d/p thief as well as 4 stab warrior… I recall playing your pug last night and the second you saw wakkey u had to swap classes, and u still went 0-3 vs him…. the build is not only pointless but an embarrassment to PVP as a whole…. i understand its usefulness in solo q where correct rotations are a rare occurrence, but vs coordinated teams it will get “juggled” and prove itself useless…. the reason it “worked” in EU is becasue its an extremely different play style where teams are more likely to zerg than fight even fights, often leaving bunkers to 1v2 and 1v3… this is possibly the reason it “worked” in EU, but in NA where even numbered fights take place your build is useless, not only can u never fullcap a warrior, but you will eventually die to one, secondly as ken stated a thief can decap and get back to the fight 10x faster and has other purposes…. also what happens if your team is 5v4… u cant teamfight with your build at all so your team will lose the teamfight rather quickly then they can 1v2 or 1v3 you while your team re spawns #GG Please stop calling this build good, it provides a false sense of skill and only works against “bad” players and uncoordinated teams… Seeing as that is who you play often, HF and enjoy not succeeding top tier! Love Backpack aka Not useless Engi

Lets get some facts straight:
1: I will never die 1v1 to a warrior.
2: 4 stab warrior doesn’t counter me. Takes longer to decap but not counter.
3: I swapped because of Caed. You will notice how he won’t join match if he knows im playing. Thats his hope of countering me. Sad that this game is build wars2.
4: PF was a very high ranked team in eu running decap build without boon rip. They still did very well.
5: Thieves can’t guarantee back point decap. If other team has a thief they can rotate back fast enough and cause a 1v1. Which is how game is supposed to be. I’m not trying to defend decap’s existence I still want it nerfed due to me winning vs 7 professions guaranteed.
6: I can still decap/beat thieves. Only good ones beat me. That being said they are also only ones able to rotate back to home fast enough to make my decap worthless. That’s why they are my counter.
7: Full capping can take 20-30 seconds but still easy even against warriors. Some just take a bit longer than others.
8: All the decap engi needs is during an even 4v4 at mid a decap on far for 15 seconds to be “even” in terms of investment. Anything more is giving my team an advantage.
9: cannot compare NA anything to EU as NA sucks. Only reason I’m on NA atm is college class is during EU prime time.
10: Everything works in NA solo q its a disaster. Eu solo q > NA team q

JinDaVikk.7291:

Dont nerf it the wrong way. Dont take away from every other engi build that uses those utilities. The issue isn’t with boon rip the issue isn’t with cc or immob… the problem is 100 percent automated response.

A request like this would suggest they should nerf AR to uselessness without giving engis any better anti-condition tools, relegating yet another character of mine to the scrap heap. (And no, I don’t play decap.)

Thousands and thousands of people will have fun builds destroyed because of a tiny number of high-caliber PvP players whose games have little if anything to do with how 99% of GW2 plays.

Qaelyn.7612:

JinDaVikk.7291:

Dont nerf it the wrong way. Dont take away from every other engi build that uses those utilities. The issue isn’t with boon rip the issue isn’t with cc or immob… the problem is 100 percent automated response.

A request like this would suggest they should nerf AR to uselessness without giving engis any better anti-condition tools, relegating yet another character of mine to the scrap heap. (And no, I don’t play decap.)

Thousands and thousands of people will have fun builds destroyed because of a tiny number of high-caliber PvP players whose games have little if anything to do with how 99% of GW2 plays.

It’s these type of builds that ruin the gameplay of 99% of the player base. It isn’t about a small percentage of competitors complaining about a build.

If I see tournaments in twitch no decap engi team wins. If I play by myself soloQ rank ~300 I face a lot of decap engis and they all die in 1on1 situations.

It seems not to be a problem. If JinDaVikk.7291 never lose a 1on1 vs a warrior maybe he would not lose with a different build as well.

I watched sizer2654 twitch stream (thief) and he won 1vs2 against 2 hambows twice in a game. Doesn’t make the normal thief OP. So maybe the decap engi is not OP but some players are

JinDaVikk.7291:

1: I will never die 1v1 to a warrior.

You mean, you will never die 1v1 vs a NA warrior? It can be … true.
The top Teams of EU didn’t play with decap engineer. Why? They can counter it!

Lupanic.6502:

If I see tournaments in twitch no decap engi team wins. If I play by myself soloQ rank ~300 I face a lot of decap engis and they all die in 1on1 situations.

It seems not to be a problem. If JinDaVikk.7291 never lose a 1on1 vs a warrior maybe he would not lose with a different build as well.

I watched sizer2654 twitch stream (thief) and he won 1vs2 against 2 hambows twice in a game. Doesn’t make the normal thief OP. So maybe the decap engi is not OP but some players are

I’m a pretty mediocre decap engi since I started only a few days ago. At first I died a lot (naturally), but now I’ve learned to put down healing turret and not detonate it all the time, I’ve learned to switch to toolkit and get my 3 second blok. I’ve learned to also put down box of nails to slow my opponents down, I’ve learned to just spam mines when at low health and no one can keep up with my healing especially since I have constant protection, regen, heal on mines and heal on toolkit, not to mention AR.

I was astonished today at how 1v1, no one could finish me off. I mean you’d think a guy with just 3k health would go down fast right? Nuh uh. The regen on this thing is amazing. And I just wait till my block is up again, my big ol bomb is recharged, my knockbacks are working and their DPS drops allowing me to heal up.

I’m not some excellent super player. But I can sure hold a point 1v1 now! My maths shows me that I just need to survive for a few seconds after decap without needing to actually cap the point to be a net benefit to the team even if I die immediately afterwards. Which doesn’t usually happen.

I love playing a mesmer. It’s my main and I’m good at it. I can play different builds – condi, dps, bunker…but nothing, I mean nothing comes close to this decap engi. With it I’ve been winning more matches than ever before. I won’t go back to mesmer as long as this strategy remains open to me because I have rank point goals to reach before they ditch it forever.

Unfortunately over the rank bonus weekend I was still learning how to play, getting nervous and all that, so I couldn’t take full advantage of the extra points

Pyriall.5027:

It’s these type of builds that ruin the gameplay of 99% of the player base. It isn’t about a small percentage of competitors complaining about a build.

I’m around 80% percentile right now. On Saturday I played around 10 matches with some guildies and didn’t see a single dedicated-decap engi once.

I do play engi myself and a teammate suggested I try the build, but that was it.

I’m sure they are out there, but they’re hiding from me at least.

If they’re really a problem then fine, fix them. But too often these fixes go overboard and have serious negative effects on builds that aren’t overpowered at all.

i just dont get why immunity to conditions is the only choice anet could think of. why not a 40% of all condition damage is reduced when under 30% health instead of immunity (don’t forget to apply it to fear damage as well).

for diamond skin this wouldn’t work

Lescansy.6174:

JinDaVikk.7291:

1: I will never die 1v1 to a warrior.

You mean, you will never die 1v1 vs a NA warrior? It can be … true.
The top Teams of EU didn’t play with decap engineer. Why? They can counter it!

There are two teams that can deal with it in EU. The reason is, there are not other teams on the same level as those. Just because 2 Teams don’t play a specc in a competiton-dead game, doesn’t mean the specc is easy to handle.

JinDaVikk.7291:

Lets get some facts straight:
1: I will never die 1v1 to a warrior.

You’ll never lose to a warrior but lost to Steamhawke in a 1v1. Sounds about right.

I am going to try and have faith with Anet on this one but I am really scared about the upcoming patch. I think it could be do or die for many of us frustrated at how things are being "balanced." Pretty soon all that will be left are players who play warrior.

I would personally like to see them fix ele for sPvP and Ranger for WvW instead of catering to all these people who crying in this thread.

I think the devs need to be careful here.

People often cry nerf when they start to encounter something that their build has a hard time fighting against. Decap is annoying to fight but by no means is it OP. Can we please just learn to counter?

Thanks

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

There are two teams that can deal with it in EU. The reason is, there are not other teams on the same level as those. Just because 2 Teams don’t play a specc in a competiton-dead game, doesn’t mean the specc is easy to handle.

No, there are 3 (ore more) Teams.
And: Every Condition-Engineer (with grenades) can beat a Bunker-Engineer. It’s not easy, but it’s possible.
With Hambow (zerker) and good play (18+ Mightstacks everytime) you will beat 99% of the engineers ingame. If the last 1% of engineer do one (1!) fail, he will die. Not instant, but the dmg over time is too high.

If a team plays with an decapper, their close will be “free” (or they fight outnumbered on the “Teamfight”). Learn to handle it (Deacap/Cap it with a Roamer). Try to fight at that place, where the engi is (he will never have a 1on1).

You try to kill him in 1on1? No Problem:
If you have a competent thief (like sizar / Guiletta Fuison / Shad) or warrior (like Rom / Fake), you can handle it. (Most of the time)

The terrible engineers who have discovered the decap build are coming to defend it.

Whether you can kill the engineer in a 1v1 or not doesn’t matter. All that matters is that he neutralizes the node and keeps it contested for x amount of time. The are currently three ways to deal with a decap engineer that actually knows what he’s doing:

1. Run your own decap engineer

2. Keep assaulting their far and hope you can kill their home node defender quickly to keep it at least neutral for as long as it takes to kill the decap engineer on your home node

3. Forget the home and far node and have your thief decap either of them constantly

None of these are good solutions and can be countered way easier than a countring decap engineer on your home node.

JinDaVikk.7291:

Mike.4830:

after reading all the posts from various good players IE ken and clueless players IE jin i will say this….. Decap engi is and most likely always will be a joke at “top tier”, whether or not you call the best teams on NA that or not idc…. It is hard countered by d/p thief as well as 4 stab warrior… I recall playing your pug last night and the second you saw wakkey u had to swap classes, and u still went 0-3 vs him…. the build is not only pointless but an embarrassment to PVP as a whole…. i understand its usefulness in solo q where correct rotations are a rare occurrence, but vs coordinated teams it will get “juggled” and prove itself useless…. the reason it “worked” in EU is becasue its an extremely different play style where teams are more likely to zerg than fight even fights, often leaving bunkers to 1v2 and 1v3… this is possibly the reason it “worked” in EU, but in NA where even numbered fights take place your build is useless, not only can u never fullcap a warrior, but you will eventually die to one, secondly as ken stated a thief can decap and get back to the fight 10x faster and has other purposes…. also what happens if your team is 5v4… u cant teamfight with your build at all so your team will lose the teamfight rather quickly then they can 1v2 or 1v3 you while your team re spawns #GG Please stop calling this build good, it provides a false sense of skill and only works against “bad” players and uncoordinated teams… Seeing as that is who you play often, HF and enjoy not succeeding top tier! Love Backpack aka Not useless Engi

Lets get some facts straight:
1: I will never die 1v1 to a warrior.
2: 4 stab warrior doesn’t counter me. Takes longer to decap but not counter.
3: I swapped because of Caed. You will notice how he won’t join match if he knows im playing. Thats his hope of countering me. Sad that this game is build wars2.
4: PF was a very high ranked team in eu running decap build without boon rip. They still did very well.
5: Thieves can’t guarantee back point decap. If other team has a thief they can rotate back fast enough and cause a 1v1. Which is how game is supposed to be. I’m not trying to defend decap’s existence I still want it nerfed due to me winning vs 7 professions guaranteed.
6: I can still decap/beat thieves. Only good ones beat me. That being said they are also only ones able to rotate back to home fast enough to make my decap worthless. That’s why they are my counter.
7: Full capping can take 20-30 seconds but still easy even against warriors. Some just take a bit longer than others.
8: All the decap engi needs is during an even 4v4 at mid a decap on far for 15 seconds to be “even” in terms of investment. Anything more is giving my team an advantage.
9: cannot compare NA anything to EU as NA sucks. Only reason I’m on NA atm is college class is during EU prime time.
10: Everything works in NA solo q its a disaster. Eu solo q > NA team q

Great… Please 1v1 wakkey not ur subpar warrior friends… Every top team has a thief IE ur already countered… if NA sucks y do u get rickrolled in team q, and lastly address a situation your team is 4v5 Mid you have a 2 cap…. if you stay this way the other team wins mid and can push and kill u…. if your team pulls out to sides it will either be a 3v3 and a 2v2 or a 4v5 and u alone again… if your in the 2v2 or the 3v3 your team will lose that fight.. Please respond with reason not random kitten k thnx

Just nerf Automated Response and they are really easy to deal with, just have a condi necro/engi/warrior/spirit ranger to destroy them.

Only broken thing with decap engi is automated response tbh

Vuh.1328:

Just nerf Automated Response and they are really easy to deal with, just have a condi necro/engi/warrior/spirit ranger to destroy them.

Only broken thing with decap engi is automated response tbh

It’s funny how many times this has been repeated by various people throughout the thread and yet now the conversation is shifting to elements like Overcharged Shot, Supply Crate, Net Shot, Elixir Infused Bombs and so on.

AR Engineer will fall to Spirit Ranger, Warrior (!!!), Thief (!!!), Condi Necro, and so, so many more builds as long as the condition immunity is taken away to be replaced by an active component that requires cooldowns, or whatever else that promotes a skill floor. The change will ensure that time-to-live of Decap engineer will be significantly decreased, whilst not affecting ancillary builds.

MonMalthias.4763:

Vuh.1328:

Just nerf Automated Response and they are really easy to deal with, just have a condi necro/engi/warrior/spirit ranger to destroy them.

Only broken thing with decap engi is automated response tbh

It’s funny how many times this has been repeated by various people throughout the thread and yet now the conversation is shifting to elements like Overcharged Shot, Supply Crate, Net Shot, Elixir Infused Bombs and so on.

AR Engineer will fall to Spirit Ranger, Warrior (!!!), Thief (!!!), Condi Necro, and so, so many more builds as long as the condition immunity is taken away to be replaced by an active component that requires cooldowns, or whatever else that promotes a skill floor. The change will ensure that time-to-live of Decap engineer will be significantly decreased, whilst not affecting ancillary builds.

Yoooup.
But you know they will nerf other components like rifle than AR, just how they handled dhumbfire.. Fire on necro to strong? nerf it, still too strong? nerf bleeds, still too strong? nerf burn again.
Or hambow warrior, damage+sustain to strong? nerf unspecting foe and buff hammer #4 but lets not touch healing signet or zerker stance, the real problems.
Or the cantrip bunker eles too strong? Nerf the kitten out of ride the lighting and other things, cause why not?

Lescansy.6174:

If Engi loose the Decap Build and become
an other strong Build like
CC, survivability, mightstacks, Condicleans + Immunity (wait, Hambow?)
or
“perma evade”, boonrip, high mobility (2 ports or more), rezzsuport (wait, Thief?)
or
Condicleanse for Group, stability, a lot of Blocks/immunity (wait, Guard?)
or
Easy to play-1-1-1-1-1, Party-rezz, surivability (evades), Burnproccs, CC (Knockdown/immo) …. (wait, Hunter?)

If we become somthing like that, i have absolute no problem to loose the Decap-Build.

I agree.

I think the problem is that people who play the easy builds you are talking about are the ones who are complaining the most about the decap engi. This is the direct result of engineers trying to make themselves more useful to try and counter the builds you described.

The argument that a build should not be strong because it is easy to play is just silly to me considering most of the meta builds of each profession is easy to play. Is decap engi easier to play than hambow or hunter? Haha I think not.

Decap engi is a form of bunker and not even the best bunker out there. Bunkers typically need 2 players to kill. I do not see what the problem is here and why people are crying so hard. I agree it is not as hard or fun to play debcap engi as it is to play a roamer engi but that can be said about all bunkers. Is playing any other bunker hard? Not really.

As far as the engi decamping far, it is nothing new for an engi to push far. Engis have been doing that since as long as I can remember.

I am not sure really what the fuss is about to be honest. Perhaps people are just bad or want an easy win? I enjoy hard fights and having to adjust. Personally, I welcome seeing new challenging builds to fight. I see people countering this build all the time.

I enjoy roaming on my engi more than playing decap but having another role to play allows me to be flexable for a team. There are a few professions that have multiple viable builds and can play dual roles out there.

Why not engi?

I think the true problem of engi: There is no other competition build for him. (And that kittening game mode).

Last but not least: Decap engi isn’t in all competition teams, but Guardian and Warrior.
Again, why is Engi op (and not in all teams), but no teams can play without Guardion and Warrior?

Lescansy.6174:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

There are two teams that can deal with it in EU. The reason is, there are not other teams on the same level as those. Just because 2 Teams don’t play a specc in a competiton-dead game, doesn’t mean the specc is easy to handle.

No, there are 3 (ore more) Teams.

Again, there are two teams nowadays (ELE, CM).
I think I played competitive long enough to tell that. And fake is our core-warrior and we think it’s a waste to let him run that bug-abuse-build. Just because HamBow is so much stronger in general, especially in teamfights and 2v2’s.

55 HP Monks can’t handle it? That’s new…

And i say Fake can beat them, not that his build is good in teamfights (is decap-engi good in any other thing than 1on1? trololol!)

I see, you avoid perfect my question: Why is Engi op (and not in all teams), but no teams can play without Guardion and Warrior?

Lescansy.6174:

I think the true problem of engi: There is no other competition build for him. (And that kittening game mode).

Last but not least: Decap engi isn’t in all competition teams, but Guardian and Warrior.
Again, why is Engi op (and not in all teams), but no teams can play without Guardion and Warrior?

In short: its too effective. Only top25 players can deal with it due to them being exceptionaly good, great TS coordination and them themselves running something even more OP.

Guardian being a must is a core problem since launch. It is the side effect of the game mode. But it does never wreck games, actualy making games interesting. It is viewed as not OP, the cumminty actualy wishes other classes could be in same spot, for the bunker/team-support.

Warior is OP. Everyones about to throw up on the thought of them, but cant since they got nothing left after half a year. So comparing anything to a warior is not a good direction for the game. And even warrs have trouble with the decap spec.

The goal is to tone down the survival of decaper, so it has viable risks in 1v1 and dies in a “normal time” 1v2.
Any ideas/buffs for compensation are welcome, just stop the childish ignorance towards this problem.

The facts totally get lost in here by weird and useless sidenotes. The main fact why it should be nerfed asap, is because it just feels completly abusive:

No need for adepting tactics => Just push far all day long
No need for any teamplay => Decap engis doing best fighting alone
No need to kill => You will cap anyway, just knockback and survive(cant kill without supply crate anyway)
This, plus beeing pretty much unkillable to 80% of the opponents.

Finally nerf AR and the decap engi will disappear in their current abusive form. 95% of the other engi-specs arent useing AR anyway. I play engi myself with a lot of different builds and would love to see something else instead of AR. Wheres the freaking point in getting immune at 25% while getting completly outplayed in the other 75%?

And to all those praised counters in here:
Lots of really bad engis in there these days who probably never played engi before, remember this and judge about well played ones.
-How long does a warrior need to take down a well played decap engi?
Minimum 2800 Armor, 50% dmg reduction on stun, 20 sec cd block, 50% uptime of vigor plus lots of stuns and rupts. Hambow will barely need 5 mins to get him down if the engi isnt kittened.
-Necro can of course condiburst him down at 35%, but again, if the engi isnt kittened he will know this and will counter with rupts(SoS), dodges and block while he smoothly melts down to immunity and the necro needs 5 mins as well.
All this sounds like you´ve just met the bad ones so far.

Lescansy.6174:

55 HP Monks can’t handle it? That’s new…

And i say Fake can beat them, not that his build is good in teamfights (is decap-engi good in any other thing than 1on1? trololol!)

I see, you avoid perfect my question: Why is Engi op (and not in all teams), but no teams can play without Guardion and Warrior?

55 HP Monks = ELE, inform yourself before you speak.
Doesn’t change the fact that decap-engineer is a broken spec. Even if it is not such a viable specc in your opinion.

Mister Fluffkin.7358:

The facts totally get lost in here by weird and useless sidenotes. The main fact why it should be nerfed asap, is because it just feels completly abusive:

No need for adepting tactics => Just push far all day long
No need for any teamplay => Decap engis doing best fighting alone
No need to kill => You will cap anyway, just knockback and survive(cant kill without supply crate anyway)
This, plus beeing pretty much unkillable to 80% of the opponents.

Finally nerf AR and the decap engi will disappear in their current abusive form. 95% of the other engi-specs arent useing AR anyway. I play engi myself with a lot of different builds and would love to see something else instead of AR. Wheres the freaking point in getting immune at 25% while getting completly outplayed in the other 75%?

And to all those praised counters in here:
Lots of really bad engis in there these days who probably never played engi before, remember this and judge about well played ones.
-How long does a warrior need to take down a well played decap engi?
Minimum 2800 Armor, 50% dmg reduction on stun, 20 sec cd block, 50% uptime of vigor plus lots of stuns and rupts. Hambow will barely need 5 mins to get him down if the engi isnt kittened.
-Necro can of course condiburst him down at 35%, but again, if the engi isnt kittened he will know this and will counter with rupts(SoS), dodges and block while he smoothly melts down to immunity and the necro needs 5 mins as well.
All this sounds like you´ve just met the bad ones so far.

No

If a team is pushing far => Cap their home
Yes there is need for teamplay => Learn to rotate
No need to kill => It is conquest not team deathmatch

Also, you are referring to 1 v 1 situations. What you are basically saying is that a decap engi bunker should always lose in a 1 v 1 and die faster. Then why is that not true of other bunkers?

Perhaps Anet should remove all bunkers then.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

55 HP Monks = ELE, inform yourself before you speak.
Doesn’t change the fact that decap-engineer is a broken spec. Even if it is not such a viable specc in your opinion.

Sorry, they change their name so often.
Anyway: ESL / VoTF?

The only thing i said is, that there are teams who can counter (or outplay) it.
The engis can’t play a other build competive, because all other builds are crap (i think all other builds loose 1v1 vs Warrior, Nekro and Ranger if they don’t play really bad).

Ok, decap engis have to go (because you can’t handle it, lol).
Can we (the engis) please have a other viable build (which don’t loose most of the 1on1 or can be easy focussed)?

AphoticEssance.7592:

Mister Fluffkin.7358:

The facts totally get lost in here by weird and useless sidenotes. The main fact why it should be nerfed asap, is because it just feels completly abusive:

No need for adepting tactics => Just push far all day long
No need for any teamplay => Decap engis doing best fighting alone
No need to kill => You will cap anyway, just knockback and survive(cant kill without supply crate anyway)
This, plus beeing pretty much unkillable to 80% of the opponents.

Finally nerf AR and the decap engi will disappear in their current abusive form. 95% of the other engi-specs arent useing AR anyway. I play engi myself with a lot of different builds and would love to see something else instead of AR. Wheres the freaking point in getting immune at 25% while getting completly outplayed in the other 75%?

And to all those praised counters in here:
Lots of really bad engis in there these days who probably never played engi before, remember this and judge about well played ones.
-How long does a warrior need to take down a well played decap engi?
Minimum 2800 Armor, 50% dmg reduction on stun, 20 sec cd block, 50% uptime of vigor plus lots of stuns and rupts. Hambow will barely need 5 mins to get him down if the engi isnt kittened.
-Necro can of course condiburst him down at 35%, but again, if the engi isnt kittened he will know this and will counter with rupts(SoS), dodges and block while he smoothly melts down to immunity and the necro needs 5 mins as well.
All this sounds like you´ve just met the bad ones so far.

No

If a team is pushing far => Cap their home
Yes there is need for teamplay => Learn to rotate
No need to kill => It is conquest not team deathmatch

Also, you are referring to 1 v 1 situations. What you are basically saying is that a decap engi bunker should always lose in a 1 v 1 and die faster. Then why is that not true of other bunkers?

Perhaps Anet should remove all bunkers then.

No one cares about bunkers, because they just can defend your nodes. But if a bunker decaps that easy its just gets stupid. Rest of your post confirms that you didnt pvp´ed much.

Lescansy.6174:

The only thing i said is, that there are teams who can counter (or outplay) it.
The engis can’t play a other build competive, because all other builds are crap (i think all other builds loose 1v1 vs Warrior, Nekro and Ranger if they don’t play really bad).

Ok, decap engis have to go (because you can’t handle it, lol).
Can we (the engis) please have a other viable build (which don’t loose most of the 1on1 or can be easy focussed)?

Basically 1on1´s are engis big strength, lol. If you loose 1on1´s all day long youre either pretty bad or playing weird builds. Why do peole post in here when they dont even know the class???

1on1 on a big place or with “useless” builds in teamfights. I speak from both, not only from once. On all builds that i know (which are strong in 1on1) you are a easy “focustarget”. I think on all builds the engi actually have (excluded the decap-build) there are one or more profession which is more effective in that role than a engi.

Lescansy.6174:

1on1 on a big place or with “useless” builds in teamfights. I speak from both, not only from once. On all builds that i know (which are strong in 1on1) you are a easy “focustarget”. I think on all builds the engi actually have (excluded the decap-build) there are one or more profession which is more effective in that role than a engi.

This. If they remove decap engi, there will not be engineers in high level tournaments anymore, because they will be a straight downgrade of a necromancer or a spirit ranger.

Mister Fluffkin.7358:

AphoticEssance.7592:

Mister Fluffkin.7358:

The facts totally get lost in here by weird and useless sidenotes. The main fact why it should be nerfed asap, is because it just feels completly abusive:

No need for adepting tactics => Just push far all day long
No need for any teamplay => Decap engis doing best fighting alone
No need to kill => You will cap anyway, just knockback and survive(cant kill without supply crate anyway)
This, plus beeing pretty much unkillable to 80% of the opponents.

Finally nerf AR and the decap engi will disappear in their current abusive form. 95% of the other engi-specs arent useing AR anyway. I play engi myself with a lot of different builds and would love to see something else instead of AR. Wheres the freaking point in getting immune at 25% while getting completly outplayed in the other 75%?

And to all those praised counters in here:
Lots of really bad engis in there these days who probably never played engi before, remember this and judge about well played ones.
-How long does a warrior need to take down a well played decap engi?
Minimum 2800 Armor, 50% dmg reduction on stun, 20 sec cd block, 50% uptime of vigor plus lots of stuns and rupts. Hambow will barely need 5 mins to get him down if the engi isnt kittened.
-Necro can of course condiburst him down at 35%, but again, if the engi isnt kittened he will know this and will counter with rupts(SoS), dodges and block while he smoothly melts down to immunity and the necro needs 5 mins as well.
All this sounds like you´ve just met the bad ones so far.

No

If a team is pushing far => Cap their home
Yes there is need for teamplay => Learn to rotate
No need to kill => It is conquest not team deathmatch

Also, you are referring to 1 v 1 situations. What you are basically saying is that a decap engi bunker should always lose in a 1 v 1 and die faster. Then why is that not true of other bunkers?

Perhaps Anet should remove all bunkers then.

No one cares about bunkers, because they just can defend your nodes. But if a bunker decaps that easy its just gets stupid. Rest of your post confirms that you didnt pvp´ed much.

Lescansy.6174:

The only thing i said is, that there are teams who can counter (or outplay) it.
The engis can’t play a other build competive, because all other builds are crap (i think all other builds loose 1v1 vs Warrior, Nekro and Ranger if they don’t play really bad).

Ok, decap engis have to go (because you can’t handle it, lol).
Can we (the engis) please have a other viable build (which don’t loose most of the 1on1 or can be easy focussed)?

Basically 1on1´s are engis big strength, lol. If you loose 1on1´s all day long youre either pretty bad or playing weird builds. Why do peole post in here when they dont even know the class???

I sPvP/tPvP all the time. Not sure what you mean by I “don’t PvP much.”

Again, I think you are looking at it from the wrong perspective. Decap engi can be countered. So I feel that your cry for a nerf is invalid.

Your saying something is “stupid” is just an opinion. That is a very bad reason to nerf something.

Just because a profession found a different way to succeed in conquest mode that counters how you been playing up to this point does not mean it should be nerfed.

Take joy in the idea that an engi has another role for a team. That should make group comps more interesting and fun.

ridiculous ridiculous ridiculous ridiculous …. but what you’re talking about and defending engi … this is ridiculous …. two people minimum to kill it and almost no class you can afford such a thing. this game is kitten because you can not fix simple things … idiots of A-net

the more i read the more i think ppl doesn’t know what they are talking about. a lot of arguing but noone made the point. The problem is not AR trait, this is a problem in the game mechanic like ele diamond skin or warrior berserker stance so engi doesn’tt differ from other’s builds, nor the survival traits the profession can deploy in a fight. It’s about the CC SPAM and only. You can’t litterally stand on thie point if you’r not a clas with Stability and even if you got it the stability cooldown cannot match the CC spam colldown. No animation on cc spam, so pls, avoid the kitten sentence “you only have to dodge it right”. You cannot damage em at all if you want to stay on the point cause you stay perma-knocked-back, you eat the ground all the time. So you have to get out of the circle and damage from distance but doesn’t help at all cause you give him the point. It’s only, i repeat, only about cc spam, give cc spam to any other class let it go to bunker build and you have onother necro decapper, onother ranger decapper and so on. If you want to nerf this build increase the Cooldown of Shield number 4 skill, rifle number 4 and flamethrower 3 and give ’em a clear animation. The bomb can be easly dodged at least.