Guild Wars 2

I like that it can turn a losing team fight around pretty quickly but its not so overpowered that a team that’s paying attention can’t avoid it. It’s pretty much useless outside of a teamfight so that’s good.

Generally if a person doesn’t know how to aim it, it means a 4v5. So i think its speed and accuracy could use a boost.

I would make it so its preset to hit the center of the capture points. You can only aim it at far, mid and home and just fire. I think that’s the only thing it really needs.

The main change I could see done to it is to reduce the splash/Aoe size of it, if the treb focuses mid it is almost guaranteed a hit due to the small area of the clock tower and possibly shave the damage but I don’t see that as being a big offender.

@Kuya, having preset Center mass hits removes the skill of the trebs and would make trebbing to be Braindead easy.

Make it so that it can take damage from conditions please. Allows all players then to have equal chance to take it out and not just power builds.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Hey Everyone,

I wanted to ask the community what your thoughts are on the secondary mechanic of Khylo: The Trebuchet.

The treb gives your team map wide big area damage and crowd control, at the expense of a single player controlling it. Each team gets their own treb near their base and is useable the entire duration of the match unless it is destroyed. If the treb is destroyed a player needs to run a repair kit from a designated area to the treb to repair it back to full health.

What do you like about it?
What do you think needs improving?
If needed, what would you change?
If needed, what would you add?
If needed, what would you remove?

I like the fact that it can hit any capture point on the map. I like that on top of doing a decent amount of damage, it also has a knockback effect.

I think the only thing that needs improving is it’s too hard for your team to get to in order to use it and too easy for the enemy to get to in order to destroy it, but realize that either way of fixing this (reworking the map to add a secondary path to it, and moving the treb elsewhere) requires significant overhauling of the map.

While I’m not necessarily sure it needs it, I would like to see the damage of the hit increased and the time between shots increased correspondingly. It’s a siege weapon, it (looks/acts like and historically IRL since it’s flinging a massive flaming rock at high velocity) should be able to 1-shot people, but it also shouldn’t be spammable on mid (which is quite easy to place shots accurately on). This will retain its utility but add more of a skill requirement in timing and aiming it.

I would also change the front edge of the platform so that mesmers and thieves can’t teleport straight to it circumventing the significant run up the spiral ramp, and so Rangers don’t have LoS on the treb from the roof of the bell tower (it’s just barely in range from one corner of mid)

I would add an NPC guard or two to the base of the ramp to the treb, roughly on par with the door guards in Stronghold (token vs. an actual assault but enough to slow some people down). They would be circumventable by several game mechanics like stealth and teleport and are mainly there to dispel the image of the treb being a complete afterthought and relatively useless (why would you leave the single most powerful non-magic weapon ever invented completely unguarded in hostile territory?)

Armenthos.9682:

Make it so that it can take damage from conditions please. Allows all players then to have equal chance to take it out and not just power builds.

+1 Destroying treb w/ a condi build takes FOREVER!!

I think it is a royal waste of time in a match b/c having someone on it is actually detrimental to trying to win the game.

Good Rotations trump Treb play 100% of the time, and if I’m in a ranked match and see one of my teammates go treb…..I’m not nice to them about that decision

R O C.6574:

Armenthos.9682:

Make it so that it can take damage from conditions please. Allows all players then to have equal chance to take it out and not just power builds.

+1 Destroying treb w/ a condi build takes FOREVER!!

A necromancer buff? Now you’re talking crazy. (all necros are condition bots)

Anyways

I like that the Treb adds some strategy but I don’t like that it favors certain classes. A mesmer can place a portal and just hop from the repair kit to the treb making destroying the treb practically pointless.

Its also possible to man the treb all game by which you never use any of your skills or enter any real combat. Which is kinda weird.

TheDevice.2751:

R O C.6574:

Armenthos.9682:

Make it so that it can take damage from conditions please. Allows all players then to have equal chance to take it out and not just power builds.

+1 Destroying treb w/ a condi build takes FOREVER!!

A necromancer buff? Now you’re talking crazy. (all necros are condition bots)

Pretty weird to poison/confuse/bleed a treb…
But burning should definitely count

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Hey Everyone,

I wanted to ask the community what your thoughts are on the secondary mechanic of Khylo: The Trebuchet.

The treb gives your team map wide big area damage and crowd control, at the expense of a single player controlling it. Each team gets their own treb near their base and is useable the entire duration of the match unless it is destroyed. If the treb is destroyed a player needs to run a repair kit from a designated area to the treb to repair it back to full health.

What do you like about it?
What do you think needs improving?
If needed, what would you change?
If needed, what would you add?
If needed, what would you remove?

Am I in the twilight zone? Are all the devs at work today or something?
~Excuse me I apologize it’s just shocking to see all the red.

I like that there is a skill cap to treb; auto focusing center of point is a bad change. It is good to see not only the enemy team’s treb shot mid, it’s a morale boost to me to see good treb shots, I then know at least one person on my side (I don’t have a premade for ranked so I am subjected to your solo queue experience) is awake at their keyboard.

*I feel it’s damage and rate of fire are pretty acceptable.
*I feel it’s rotation speed needs to be increased by (at least) 100%
*I feel it’s repair kit needs to be addressed, it is currently too costly to repair your treb, in my opinion; you should be +ing a point.
*I feel it has too much of an impact on middle point in comparison to the side points.

I think treb is pretty balanced just make it vulnerable to condi damage.

I hate Khylo with a passion, and the treb is a contributing factor as to why. The treb does a crazy amount of damage and takes long to destroy. Please remove it or reduce the total amount of HP it has

mrauls.6519:

I hate Khylo with a passion, and the treb is a contributing factor as to why. The treb does a crazy amount of damage and takes long to destroy. Please remove it or reduce the total amount of HP it has

How does the treb take a long time to destroy?

It’s like 8 seconds to dead on my rev and like 10 with sw/foc/GS DH. Maybe if you play a condi class since it doesn’t make sense to confuse/blind/bleed something with no brain/eyes/blood it could take a while, but c’mon. It takes 10x longer to run up the hill to it than it does to actually kill it, and half the classes can just teleport to it anyway.

Lucred.1802:

mrauls.6519:

I hate Khylo with a passion, and the treb is a contributing factor as to why. The treb does a crazy amount of damage and takes long to destroy. Please remove it or reduce the total amount of HP it has

How does the treb take a long time to destroy?

It’s like 8 seconds to dead on my rev and like 10 with sw/foc/GS DH. Maybe if you play a condi class since it doesn’t make sense to confuse/blind/bleed something with no brain/eyes/blood it could take a while, but c’mon. It takes 10x longer to run up the hill to it than it does to actually kill it, and half the classes can just teleport to it anyway.

The first (and last) time i tried to destroy treb on a condi build it took FOREVER (30+ seconds)

Fix your classes first. And I’m not even talking about balance, I mean build diversity. Give me terror necro and sword/dagger thief back.

When you asked in the Skyhammer thread a few moons ago;

Haleydawn.3764:

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Questions:

• Kyhlo’s treb:
  • Do we consider it a swing mechanic?
  • What do we think of it being up all the time?
  • Does it need to be reworked to make it fit “periodic secondary mechanics”, and if yes how would you change it?
  • Is the treb fine as is, and why?
• Would we want to have secondary mechanics that are up all the time in future maps?

Kyhlo is probably my favourite map, and the trebuchet is a great tool for it. When played well, you get your mid cap using treb, then join your team in the fight occasionally returning to blast a few more treb rounds off onto a contested mid point if an enemy player hasn’t already gone to destroy it, leaving their team 4v5 while they do this on an empty treb. When not played well is when it gets camped by one person who can’t defend it, rotate it, aim it etc.
Baiting your enemy to come destroy it to out number them in field is your best play, if they can’t avoid the damage/knockback. In my last dozen or so Khylo games, it was rare that one goes for the treb to start with, staying as 4 strong on mid or 2home 3far as surprise, works better than using the treb to secure a mid cap. In some of them, both trebs were completely untouched. I don’t know how these matches look in lower divisions/with newer people, but I’m sure someone else will give their thoughts.

With the fact that the treb can be dodged and destroyed, makes it a secondary mechanic which can be overcome, but the damage may have to be balanced as you would balance professions, in a glass meta, the treb is devastating, in a hybrid (high sustain, mid-high damage) meta like we are now, it could be considered weak, the only effectiveness being the knockback/interrupt.

I suppose we could alter how the treb works, ie, instead of player controlled, it’s AI, aiming for one random enemy node, once a supply drop (treb repair atm) is returned to an ammunition holding, essentially charging the treb, ready to fire.

Or keeping it a player controlled tool, we changed what the projectile does. Implementing different rounds, for example Flash rounds which blinds enemies, but on a longer cooldown. If this was implemented, removing the trebuchet standard knockback to just a damaging shrapnel would have to happen to keep it a secondary mechanic.

Or we could completely remove the treb and have a pure conquest map with no secondary mechanic at all. Which would be fine too.

I’d like to see it be an AI thing, where you have to supply it to make it fire. Could be used as an enemy node decap once charged and fired. Hmm

- should take dmg from condis
- the repair kit is dropped if player uses portal

Just chiming in to say i love it, and if u a condi/bunker going to destroy it you supposed to take longer, conclusion, just go if u burst dmg, exception maybe fire dmg.

Peace and screw pip system.

Personally I hate the treb. Everytime I have seen someone use it they have either been on my team and can’t aim it for kitten despite sitting there the entire match, or its someone on the other team just trebbing mid the entire match as soon as its off cooldown, regardless of whether anyone is there or not. I would rather see the treb be taken out completely and have khylo be turned into a conquest map with no side objectives at all

Like every other PvE mechanic in ranked sPvP maps, I think treb should be removed. Keep all that stuff for unranked and hotjoin, but delete all of this trash from ranked maps.

The trebuchet should be deleted. I hate the map with a passion because of the trebuchet.

My issue with treb is (on the games I play) is: after the initial roll-out, there is almost no situation where going treb is a decent idea. Partially because (for non-teleporting/shadowstepping classes) it takes too long to get to treb. In the time it takes to run to treb, you could have +1 on home or on mid. And while the damage and CC is good on Treb; it doesn’t compare to actually being on point, buffing/healing allies and debuffing, dpsing the other team. I would poke kitten in the spawn point and get a third, direct-bridge exit to treb to help that.

And if just going treb is pointless, repairing it is doubly so. Every second you’re helplessly shuttling the repair kit is a second you’re not decapping, fighting, defending or buffing. You’d be better served sitting on a capped point. And if only mesmers can repair effectively (with portal), why is it even a thing?

Agree on making treb vulnerable to conditions though.

i dont like the treb for the same reason i dont like the lords.

With all the stability, damage mitigation, heals, invulns, dodges and other shenanigans it’s a largely obsolete feature.

Do something about your ridiculous level of powercreep before discussing map mechanics.

Treb is good against unprepared opponents, but useless against good opponents.

At lower levels, it can dominate a game and be an insta-win if not properly handled. This is a good thing, although when 2 or 3 players go after treb…your team was probably going to lose anyway.

At higher levels, it is almost never used. The best that most teams do is 1-2 shots to force some dodges and open up some pew-pew lanes. I feel like, against competent players, treb is almost useless. Its almost always better to just +1 a fight (especially because of power-creep, players can do almost as much, if not more damage than treb).

Things that could make treb more useful at the higher level:

- Faster turning speed
- Faster firing rate (just a little bit), especially at far/home points
- Decrease the damage for everyone to pre-HoT levels (I know pvp team has no control here)
- If you can’t decrease player damage, add support to the treb with either added boons for allied players or a 2nd skill that drops some healing/cleanses. Alternatively, allow treb to strip enemy boons. This would make it more useful for high-end play but have the same impact of low-end.
- It would be great to also show an aoe indicator for treb, for times when sound is off and so a player doesn’t have to hold their camera pointed to enemy treb.

Treb is fine. Bads will use it and complain about it in turn, better players will just ignore it and play around it.

+1 from me for removing the treb, Khylo is actually a fun map when people don’t use the treb. When treb is in play, I get really annoyed. I’d enjoy Khylo as much as Capricorn if you remove the treb.

Please remove the PvE crap from PvP, thankyou.

Otherwise don’t change Khylo, it’s the only map where I can go strait to enemy treb, kill the stupid map mechanic and just have a game against 5 other players with no PvE clutch bullkitten.

Better yet

How about fixing the clock tower? Camera angles get whack inside that thing because it’s so enclosed, people accidently throw skills on the roof and then there’s targeting and path obstructions from sitting near the windows.

Then there’s also unfair pathing that people can abuse with blink and many other skills that teleport you from GROUND FLOOR to the roof of clock tower.

Hammerguard.9834:

Fix your classes first. And I’m not even talking about balance, I mean build diversity. Give me terror necro and sword/dagger thief back.

Terrormancer is still a thing isn’kitten You just need to time skills a little better rather than spam fear and to rely on boon corruption timing a bit more.

The treb gives your team map wide big area damage and crowd control, at the expense of a single player controlling it.

• Think its ok, but its Anets decision where they want the low/middle/pro spectrum to go. Lowbies dont know how and more importantly where to aim. Middle its equal. The pros can all dodge or outrotate it, so its mostly not even considered.

Each team gets their own treb near their base and is useable the entire duration of the match unless it is destroyed.

• Its near base but enemy has pretty easy access to it. Maybe more home advantage by walking from left side or direct access would allow more comeback potential.
  Also make it destroyable by condies.

If the treb is destroyed a player needs to run a repair kit from a designated area to the treb to repair it back to full health.

• Main point why im writing.
  THIS is mostly impossible and not worth the time.
  If a treb = comeaback & homeadvantage and the treb is repairable, then it maybe SHOULD BE at least viable if not the meta strat of a comeback.

TLDR
The defense side gets a point for easier to reach and defend treb.
The offense gets to destroy the treb easier now with condies.

• Make the Trebuchet vulnerable to condition damage.
• Have the Trebuchet directly influence points somehow. Currently it is a loss in almost all cases to use the Trebuchet instead of being on a point. If a player has to commit to it to use it, then it needs to be rewarding. An idea here would be to make a Trebuchet hit grant 1 point per hit to the Trebbing player’s team.
• Unlike all other map mechanics, it doesn’t employ a player’s skill with their class to take advantage of the Trebuchet. This is actually a really bad thing, because it means you have to train yourself on the exact power-up levels to hit certain points or else you’re less than useless, and this is incongruous with all other maps. If it were up to me, I’d simply have three skills on the Trebuchet that target clocktower, windmill, and mansion and will do all of the work for you of hitting the point if pressed.

I think

1. Treb should be susceptible to crits and condis
2. Teleport skills should drop the repair kit

Rising Dusk.2408:

• Unlike all other map mechanics, it doesn’t employ a player’s skill with their class to take advantage of the Trebuchet. This is actually a really bad thing, because it means you have to train yourself on the exact power-up levels to hit certain points or else you’re less than useless, and this is incongruous with all other maps. If it were up to me, I’d simply have three skills on the Trebuchet that target clocktower, windmill, and mansion and will do all of the work for you of hitting the point if pressed.

I disagree quite strongly. The trebuchet as is has a relatively low skill floor, and learning to hit the objectives is quite easy. Hitting secondary targets, destructible objects, and variations on each point is, IMO, a great way to ‘master’ Khylo- and if you don’t want to engage in mastery of the trebuchet, for 99% of players, it’s not necessary to master the mechanic.

The treb usage can be easily outplayed. However, it can be effective in some low-level games as players have no idea how to counterplay. This leads to some newish players thinking it is good to use it but in the end being detrimental to their team.

So I think removing the treb is not a bad idea. However, this also completely eliminates all the secondary mechanics on the map.

Ideally, I would like to see the treb being easier to access, easier to repair to make it actually an important part of the map.

It’s fine as it is…

Fivedawgs.4267:

It’s fine as it is…

This, except I would say let conditions do damage to treb.

I personally enjoy the Treb. However I think a closer access from Home Base should be installed (like a side exit). That way teleporters wouldn’t have the upper hand

Giving fast access from home would allow ppl to use the Treb after respawn, maybe turning the tides up on a location that has been outmanned.
It could also be useful to help on far when pushing forwards and someone dies or defending home after someone dies.

Rotation speed on the treb has to be increased thus allowing more interplay.

Has to be condition killable (Never played any condi class but it didn’t seem fair that ondi doesn’t do much damage to it)

It has to be more relevant to the map BUT NOT INDISPENSABLE

treb is fine. Condi builds bieng unable to kill it quickly should not be a reason to make it vulnerable to conditions. It adds another variable a team has to take into account when it comes to team composition and rotating around the map. it bieng resistant to condis is not a broken mechanic at all.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Hey Everyone,

Just wanted to jump in here and give a quick summary list of some of the feedback in this thread.

• Have treb take damage from condi’s and crits
• Rotation speed increase NO
• Remove Treb completely NO
• Faster fire rate NO Why do you want to increase the power creep??
• Different treb amno that supports allies on points NO
• Teleport skill drop the siege bundle

Remember that this thread is a discussion between myself and you the community. I can’t promise any of the suggestions will be implemented or when. However, I am reading the thread and taking the feedback very seriously and passing it along to the PvP Team.

Now some additional questions:

• If you could add one ammo type to the treb (poison shot, healy shot, etc.) what would it be?
• How long (in seconds) do you think it should take the treb to turn from Home to Far?
• How long (in seconds) do you think a damage dealer (either physical or condi) should take to kill a treb?

Thank you all for participating in the discussion and keeping is constructive.

I ll a dress the rest later, but why do you want to kill whatever shred of skill this game has. What’s your goal here?? And please no power creep, and stop trying to dumb down the game.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Now some additional questions:

• If you could add one ammo type to the treb (poison shot, healy shot, etc.) what would it be?

Poison – because there’s too much healing in the game.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

• How long (in seconds) do you think it should take the treb to turn from Home to Far?

About twice the time it takes for a player with 33% swiftness to run there with no shadowsteps or blinks.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Hey Everyone,

• Have treb take damage from condi’s and crits: YES
• Rotation speed increase: YES
• Remove Treb completely: NO
• Faster fire rate: NO
• Different treb amno that supports allies on points:NO
• Teleport skill drop the siege bundle:YES

Now some additional questions:

• If you could add one ammo type to the treb (poison shot, healy shot, etc.) what would it be?
  -I wouldn’t. Having the treb shoot supportive items would render mid fights useless if there is a druid + ele.
• How long (in seconds) do you think it should take the treb to turn from Home to Far?
  -The seconds it takes at the moment x 0.66
• How long (in seconds) do you think a damage dealer (either physical or condi) should take to kill a treb?
  -No idea

Thank you all for participating in the discussion and keeping is constructive.

Don’t forget a path from base to the treb. The spiral way up to the treb really makes it unworthy of usage after initial exit. Guadians and necros should be able to get fast access to the treb.

Shooting balls of fire from a treb is good enough. IMO different types of ammo shouldn’t be added.

Add healing and WvW poison shot can give interesting dynamics to the fight.

• Poison cloud duration needs to adjust to power variant so people will actually pick it, while shorten its remaining duration so it doesn’t give cap advantages too much. I think having multiple stacks on short duration is sufficient, something like 3 stacks for 1s and pulses 3 times?
• Healing shot could probably go like 1.5k heal on hit and 3s regen or something like that. They sound OP on paper but need to weigh out lost of opportunity with hard hitting physical shot.

I think currently the time taken to kill treb is balanced for power players, just need to adjust condi players to them. The time was sufficient so that people who was on treb can decap/cap points if they decide to rotate. If its too easy to destroy the treb then people who was on it will be at significant disadvantage when challenged.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Hey Everyone,

Just wanted to jump in here and give a quick summary list of some of the feedback in this thread.

• Have treb take damage from condi’s and crits
• Rotation speed increase
• Remove Treb completely
• Faster fire rate
• Different treb amno that supports allies on points
• Teleport skill drop the siege bundle

Remember that this thread is a discussion between myself and you the community. I can’t promise any of the suggestions will be implemented or when. However, I am reading the thread and taking the feedback very seriously and passing it along to the PvP Team.

Now some additional questions:

• If you could add one ammo type to the treb (poison shot, healy shot, etc.) what would it be?
• How long (in seconds) do you think it should take the treb to turn from Home to Far?
• How long (in seconds) do you think a damage dealer (either physical or condi) should take to kill a treb?

Thank you all for participating in the discussion and keeping is constructive.

*A poison shot, agree with too much healing in the game, pulse poison field with large stack for 3 seconds.
*4 seconds maximum.
*I don’t think treb should take any damage from conditions other than fire.

What really bothers me is how slow – inaccurate – the turning on the treb acts but that may be a coding/mechanical issue not easily fixed.

Just a thought, how about a mini-map (fire ball icon? Arrow icon?) Treb icon to ping the map to notify people I really want a treb to hit there.

Speaking of which, I would REALLY want a voice over, ping over, or text over that signifies,
“I don’t need your help!”
or
“Please rotate away!”
and/or
“I will cap!”

Bonus points,
I can’t win this fight!

Couldn’t tell you how many times I want people to stop 1v3ing an Engi at home, or wondering if our 1v1 will be won at home/far. It’s virtually impossible to communicate efficiently without comms in SoloQ. Treb changes are nice but I feel we need these functions as well.

Armenthos.9682:

Make it so that it can take damage from conditions please. Allows all players then to have equal chance to take it out and not just power builds.

No.. Never.. You want to use conditions and get a TON of benefits for doing so. Then you want on of the few limited areas where it does not shine?

Come on man.. You got the cake, , eat it too, I guess.

Add rotting wood or rusting metal aka a way for conditions to affect structures.

How long does the repair kit take to spawn after a treb is destroyed ? Maybe that can be increased to compensate making the treb easier to use and keeping it from being camped all match.

As you hold down #2 to charge the treb for distance, it should show a ground target radius that updates where the treb will hit as you are charging it. This would highly improve accuracy and ease of use for newer players. It would also allow for more awesomely accurate random treb attacking in strange spots “which feels good to land”.

Speed of turning the treb should be dependant on how fast you click 1-left or 2-right. This way it’s a penalty if you over click or rewarding if you know the right number to click and then stop.

It may be interesting to have 3 different treb attacks:

• One physical based – still knocks back
• One condi based – still knocks back
• One that busts open a crate of heal supplies, similar to supply crate or something

Other than that, I’ve never seen any problem with the treb in khylo.

Treb speed rotation :
Pick a randomly generated item that can be placed where ever you want and after 15 sec it will ‘’bloom-fuction’’ , increasing your treb speed to that location (and around it 1500 yards)
(just like a machine -magnet that pulls the the metalic bolts of the treb) .
This item can be ’’masked’’ as rock or box and appears ’’freindly’’ from close by (390 yards -and hostile from 130 yards) and not targetable from further away , so the enemy defender must leave his capure point or ask for help .
You should avoid placing it in plain site .

Different treb amno :
You can place that ‘’magnetic device’’ ontop the enemy capture point and ask your treb guy to shoot at it .
It will malfaction and start splilling some oils or not-so-healthy-juices at that base , forming small green+blues holes .
Touch 3 blue holes and you will get 5 randoms conditions , but your next basic attack will remove all the boons from your enemy and 2 from yourself .
Stand on the green hole and use your Healing spell = it will do a 480 yards 70% healing reduction AOE Posion (start vomiting) to 2 closest enemies for 10 sec .
The enemy can do the same .
You can let spill it up , enought oli , but you should avoid letting it die from the treb shots , because theres 3 min cd till it respawn again .
By picking it up you get 1 condition every 5 sec

Or C :
Tranfer it to to treb guy , so it can shoot on a base and ‘’terra-form’’ it , creating some mud holes that you and yor enemy get 1 sec immobilize and small rock to hide behind for 3 min .
But 10 water fields will cleanse the base
Or 10 Fire fields will create small fire holes , in the place of the 1-sec-immobilize-muddy-holes

Regarding the treb ammo: I would only add poison ammo to it aside from the regular cc/damage attack as to not make it too overpowering. The ammo could be a pulsing poison field as has been mentioned before. This could see more play in higher tiers as usually people know how to avoid the treb shots by then, but if you have a treb shot that leaves a pulsing poison field, then dodging isn’t gonna be enough. Eventually you’ll have to send someone to take out the treb even in higher tiers. The poison field shouldn’t pulse more than one stack since the point is not the damage, but disrupting the enemies healing. If you want to go for something even more game changing, you could also give the treb ammo that leaves a pulsing chill field instead of poison. That might make the treb a lot more dangerous in higher tiers.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Hey Everyone,

Just wanted to jump in here and give a quick summary list of some of the feedback in this thread.

• Have treb take damage from condi’s and crits
• Rotation speed increase
• Remove Treb completely
• Faster fire rate
• Different treb amno that supports allies on points
• Teleport skill drop the siege bundle

Remember that this thread is a discussion between myself and you the community. I can’t promise any of the suggestions will be implemented or when. However, I am reading the thread and taking the feedback very seriously and passing it along to the PvP Team.

Now some additional questions:

• If you could add one ammo type to the treb (poison shot, healy shot, etc.) what would it be?
• How long (in seconds) do you think it should take the treb to turn from Home to Far?
• How long (in seconds) do you think a damage dealer (either physical or condi) should take to kill a treb?

Thank you all for participating in the discussion and keeping is constructive.

I could see adding an AoE poison or bleed+cripple ammo to it, to keep it in line with historical/IRL use of trebs (bags of small rocks to act as buckshot, close range IE mid and home only can’t reach far; rotten animals to spread disease).

Full rotation should be no greater than 6 seconds. As is the treb can’t even keep up with normal runspeed of a character running perpendicular to it through the center of the map.

Treb should be killable in 15 seconds or less by a balanced bruiser build. I don’t think treb should be opened up to all condi damage as it makes zero sense from a lore/history standpoint both IRL and ingame for a wooden catapult to take torment/confusion/bleeding damage. In order to make up for this it should take double or triple damage from burning (and maybe 1.5x damage from direct fire damage) and maybe 1.2-1.5x damage from chill/ice/water effects (yes I realize this pretty much throws mesmer out on their ears but unless you make portaling drop the bundle and make it harder for them to port onto roof of mid they’re already the kings of this map). While this won’t make all classes able to unilaterally kill a treb in, say, exactly 13 seconds I do think it will introduce some play/counterplay and strategy to an otherwise pretty straightforward map (mesmer next to useless killing trebs, ele extremely good at killing trebs but will be fairly vulnerable in the process as has to stay in fire attune, everyone else decent or better within a narrow margin).