Guild Wars 2

Credit for the idea goes to sagat. Also, if your an ele and would rather have the current diamond skin, which is broken op vs some builds and useless vs others, over some resistance your crazy. Just saying, making it grant resistance is a good move for everyone involved.

TyPin.9860:

I have the suspicion, that some people are defending Diamond Skin in its current state, because of a general dislike for conditions. Imagine if there was a trait to give immunity to hard CC and physical damage when your health is above 90%. Would that be an okay thing?

Also, currently it is no issue to design a 5man power damage team. Imagine a 5 man condi damage team. It would already be disadvantageous in the current meta, but would be utter useless against one ele with diamond skin.

Personally I’d like to see gradual change. On high HP diamond skin would offer a high condition duration reduction (100% reduction for instance, so that it can only be overcome by condition duration bonus traits/gear) and the lower the ele’s HP are, the less this duration reduction would be. But it would be gradual. Like 20% lower reduction each 10% of HP, starting with 100% condi reduction on 100% HP and dropping to 80% condi reduction at 90%HP and so on. (maybe the numbers need tweaking^^)

Try it in reverse and it’ll sound really interesting.

Also, sagat and a few others have already suggested the best possible tweak guys, there doesn’t seem to be much point to arguing further.

Tyreal.5230:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

diamond skin is fine, balanced and working as intended.
counter play is control skills plus direct burst damage.

no, i dun play an elementalist.

Yeah…

The problem is that a flat condi build doesn’t have the direct burst damage to overcome Diamond Skin. Therefor the condition application and damage of the condi build never comes into effect. The ele can easily outheal any direct damage the condi user might apply.

Not sure how you going full condi and having absolutely no power in your build is an Eles issue, but okay. Hybrid builds are used for a reason.

Due to the way stats/damage work, for most classes hybrid builds are merely the watering down of both power and condi setups.

How about 3 seconds of Resistance when attuning to Earth?

Solution: don’t run pure condi+passive defense (yeah I bet you forgot about this part of the equation with the silly ‘while in earth/water with already lousy dps’ nonsense :/ seriously?) Rampager, Sinister, or any other hybrid will chew through 1.3k(!!) HPs plenty easy. If this trait is such a ‘hard counter’ for you, then that means that you’ve stacked TWO passive defense stats. Sit down and be glad those stats help you SO !much in literally every other encounter.

I play Necro and I this is silly (and the ‘make it a boon! /winkwink’ is surely just bait)

Tman.6349:

If this trait is such a ‘hard counter’ for you, then that means that you’ve stacked TWO passive defense stats. Sit down and be glad those stats help you SO !much in literally every other encounter.

Well, in SPvP it likely means they’re running Rabid. Since the ultimate two-defense-stat gear (Dire) isn’t available.

I +1ed the post, but I’m not sure if I entirely agree.

Being that I run a condi build [using Rabid stats], it sucks that this one build completely counters me, but a Diamond Skin ele has to make a concession to go into earth for such a trait. If I see an ele on the other team, I automatically let my team know that I can’t 1v1 diamond skin ele. I make adjustments accordingly and never have an issue that my team can’t surmount in due time.

That’s the way it should be I think.

eta- Diamond skin only counters rabid & settler’s amulet.

MailMail.6534:

I +1ed the post, but I’m not sure if I entirely agree.

Being that I run a condi build [using Rabid stats], it sucks that this one build completely counters me, but a Diamond Skin ele has to make a concession to go into earth for such a trait. If I see an ele on the other team, I automatically let my team know that I can’t 1v1 diamond skin ele. I make adjustments accordingly and never have an issue that my team can’t surmount in due time.

That’s the way it should be I think.

eta- Diamond skin only counters rabid & settler’s amulet.

Not completely true, you will have a better time on Carrion, but it’s still be very difficult to get through the 10% hp due to so much sustain.

Let’s be honest, Diamond Skin rewards you for absolutely nothing, which is not healthy for the game. There should be some skill involved and also counterplay, I think that it’s been enough of things that has no counterplay.

Laraley.7695:

MailMail.6534:

I +1ed the post, but I’m not sure if I entirely agree.

Being that I run a condi build [using Rabid stats], it sucks that this one build completely counters me, but a Diamond Skin ele has to make a concession to go into earth for such a trait. If I see an ele on the other team, I automatically let my team know that I can’t 1v1 diamond skin ele. I make adjustments accordingly and never have an issue that my team can’t surmount in due time.

That’s the way it should be I think.

eta- Diamond skin only counters rabid & settler’s amulet.

Not completely true, you will have a better time on Carrion, but it’s still be very difficult to get through the 10% hp due to so much sustain.

Let’s be honest, Diamond Skin rewards you for absolutely nothing, which is not healthy for the game. There should be some skill involved and also counterplay, I think that it’s been enough of things that has no counterplay.

Uhh you’re rewarded for being good enough to keep yourself at 90%+ health while being attacked. That’s not an easy thing to do if there are 2 people beating on you and 1 is condi and 1 is power.

Raif.9507:

Laraley.7695:

MailMail.6534:

I +1ed the post, but I’m not sure if I entirely agree.

Being that I run a condi build [using Rabid stats], it sucks that this one build completely counters me, but a Diamond Skin ele has to make a concession to go into earth for such a trait. If I see an ele on the other team, I automatically let my team know that I can’t 1v1 diamond skin ele. I make adjustments accordingly and never have an issue that my team can’t surmount in due time.

That’s the way it should be I think.

eta- Diamond skin only counters rabid & settler’s amulet.

Not completely true, you will have a better time on Carrion, but it’s still be very difficult to get through the 10% hp due to so much sustain.

Let’s be honest, Diamond Skin rewards you for absolutely nothing, which is not healthy for the game. There should be some skill involved and also counterplay, I think that it’s been enough of things that has no counterplay.

Uhh you’re rewarded for being good enough to keep yourself at 90%+ health while being attacked. That’s not an easy thing to do if there are 2 people beating on you and 1 is condi and 1 is power.

Nobody ever said Diamond Skin is OP, broken, or a bad mechanic vs a power build. -_-u

Your response is really redundant and unhelpful.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Nobody ever said Diamond Skin is OP, broken, or a bad mechanic vs a power build. -_-u

Your response is really redundant and unhelpful.

My response wasn’t to you, it was to Laraley saying it was passive, since well… it’s not as it actively requires you to focus on remaining above 90%. The difficulty is magnified when you have more than one person hitting you. The use of 1 condi + 1 power is an example. There has been 1 person who knows what to do and that’s this person:

MailMail.6534:

I +1ed the post, but I’m not sure if I entirely agree.

Being that I run a condi build [using Rabid stats], it sucks that this one build completely counters me, but a Diamond Skin ele has to make a concession to go into earth for such a trait. If I see an ele on the other team, I automatically let my team know that I can’t 1v1 diamond skin ele. I make adjustments accordingly and never have an issue that my team can’t surmount in due time.

That’s the way it should be I think.

eta- Diamond skin only counters rabid & settler’s amulet.

It’s a team game, get some help. Stop expecting every build to be able to 1v1 everything (this game isn’t even balanced on 1v1) or be useful in all scenarios. It shouldn’t, there should be counters otherwise what good is a team if you can do everything. Diamond skin is not the reason necros are not in “meta”, that is all the fault of the traits and what a necro can bring to the table.

Your response is really redundant and useless.

Diamond Skin needs to gtfo out the game as it currently is. Hard counters should not exists at all.

Raif.9507:

It’s a team game, get some help.

Choosing to ignore or “grab support” in order to beat a certain build does not constitute that build as being fair.

Laraley.7695:

Let’s be honest, Diamond Skin rewards you for absolutely nothing, which is not healthy for the game. There should be some skill involved and also counterplay, I think that it’s been enough of things that has no counterplay.

Let’s be honest, Toughness/Vitality rewards you for absolutely nothing, which is not healthy for the game. There should be some skill involved and also counterplay, I think that it’s been enough of things that has no counterplay.

Laraley.7695:

MailMail.6534:

I +1ed the post, but I’m not sure if I entirely agree.

Being that I run a condi build [using Rabid stats], it sucks that this one build completely counters me, but a Diamond Skin ele has to make a concession to go into earth for such a trait. If I see an ele on the other team, I automatically let my team know that I can’t 1v1 diamond skin ele. I make adjustments accordingly and never have an issue that my team can’t surmount in due time.

That’s the way it should be I think.

eta- Diamond skin only counters rabid & settler’s amulet.

Not completely true, you will have a better time on Carrion, but it’s still be very difficult to get through the 10% hp due to so much sustain.

Let’s be honest, Diamond Skin rewards you for absolutely nothing, which is not healthy for the game. There should be some skill involved and also counterplay, I think that it’s been enough of things that has no counterplay.

First off, you’re responding as though this game is based on 1v1s. Condi builds are generally superior in 1v1s with less risk but less reward in terms of speed. If you can’t get past 10% on Carrion, then it’s a l2p issue.

Rewards you for nothing? This is untrue. The ele has to actively sustain himself in order to remain above the 90% threshold, which based on my experience as an enemy of such, is VERY hard in a team fight. lol In fact, most eles I know will tell you how useless this trait is for a majority of builds for precisely this fact.

If I don’t slot enough condi removal I get destroyed by condis.

If I don’t slot enough power damage I get destroyed by Diamond Skin.

I don’t see a difference here.

Raif.9507:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Nobody ever said Diamond Skin is OP, broken, or a bad mechanic vs a power build. -_-u

Your response is really redundant and unhelpful.

My response wasn’t to you, it was to Laraley saying it was passive, since well… it’s not as it actively requires you to focus on remaining above 90%. The difficulty is magnified when you have more than one person hitting you. The use of 1 condi + 1 power is an example. There has been 1 person who knows what to do and that’s this person:

MailMail.6534:

I +1ed the post, but I’m not sure if I entirely agree.

Being that I run a condi build [using Rabid stats], it sucks that this one build completely counters me, but a Diamond Skin ele has to make a concession to go into earth for such a trait. If I see an ele on the other team, I automatically let my team know that I can’t 1v1 diamond skin ele. I make adjustments accordingly and never have an issue that my team can’t surmount in due time.

That’s the way it should be I think.

eta- Diamond skin only counters rabid & settler’s amulet.

It’s a team game, get some help. Stop expecting every build to be able to 1v1 everything (this game isn’t even balanced on 1v1) or be useful in all scenarios. It shouldn’t, there should be counters otherwise what good is a team if you can do everything. Diamond skin is not the reason necros are not in “meta”, that is all the fault of the traits and what a necro can bring to the table.

Your response is really redundant and useless.

Yeah… so anyway. The underlying message people seem to be saying over and over is that Diamond Skin is bad design. I mean, we can come up with scenarios to beat it all day, such as your twice mentioned “bring a buddy using a power build just to counter this one trait so the condi user can generate condition application”- but of course that begs the question of why you’d have the condi build there to begin with at all, and that’s not actually helping your position once we go down that path -_-u. So yes, this all leads us to the unavoidable conclusion that diamon skin is badly designed, and that there are better, more compelling ways to capture the essence of this GM trait while bringing into line with the whole width and breadth of the game.

Ross Biddle.2367:

….but of course that begs the question of why you’d have the condi build there to begin with at all….

Because conditions are good to use against pretty much anything else in the game save that one build? Just because you are countered by 1 thing doesn’t suddenly make you useless in the entire rest of the game.

For example:
You are at mid point – DS ele comes to you. Can you not go to far to pressure there instead? Are you all of a sudden not able to help home point because of this? What about the other 4 people on the other team? Can you not put conditions on them?

In a team fight DS barely stays as is on a DS ele because it’s that easy to get rid of anyway. You are complaining about a 1v1 when the game is being balanced and discussed in a 5v5 game mode where objectives are the main point and kills are secondary.

I main ele, and in pvp you must be a really new player or a strong premade team to take diamond skin. With all the sustain and skills, ele does not need that trait at all. Problem is the mechanics of dd ele. It is relatively easy to beat most classes.

RAMPAGER AMULET, ACTIVATE!

Ele is easier to kill than it has ever been due to the boon duration nerf and the buff to spike damage, which impact squishy classes more than medium and heavy.

You guys are all running berserker/condi amulets and still have more HP than an ele, yet are complaining if they can counter some of it on the bunkerest of builds, even if that’s all they can run.

Have you ever tried running berserker amulet on a d/d ele? You have 11k hp and die in half a mesmer burst. We have no choice to go celestial and outplay you with our sustain. If you wanna do the same just stop running berserker and run celestial or soldier, I doubt an ele will kil you then with it’s “OP” diamond skin that isn’t even that good to start with since with any faceroll from a rampage warrior, guard, mesmer, thief, ranger, we’re already at 50% hp.

MailMail.6534:

Laraley.7695:

MailMail.6534:

I +1ed the post, but I’m not sure if I entirely agree.

Being that I run a condi build [using Rabid stats], it sucks that this one build completely counters me, but a Diamond Skin ele has to make a concession to go into earth for such a trait. If I see an ele on the other team, I automatically let my team know that I can’t 1v1 diamond skin ele. I make adjustments accordingly and never have an issue that my team can’t surmount in due time.

That’s the way it should be I think.

eta- Diamond skin only counters rabid & settler’s amulet.

Not completely true, you will have a better time on Carrion, but it’s still be very difficult to get through the 10% hp due to so much sustain.

Let’s be honest, Diamond Skin rewards you for absolutely nothing, which is not healthy for the game. There should be some skill involved and also counterplay, I think that it’s been enough of things that has no counterplay.

First off, you’re responding as though this game is based on 1v1s. Condi builds are generally superior in 1v1s with less risk but less reward in terms of speed. If you can’t get past 10% on Carrion, then it’s a l2p issue.

Rewards you for nothing? This is untrue. The ele has to actively sustain himself in order to remain above the 90% threshold, which based on my experience as an enemy of such, is VERY hard in a team fight. lol In fact, most eles I know will tell you how useless this trait is for a majority of builds for precisely this fact.

Of course this game is not based on 1v1’s, it’s also not based on conquest, yet it’s balanced around it while introducing new game modes that are completely different. Still that doesn’t matter.

Go and try how easy time you will be having in a 1v1 against a diamond skill ele that knows that he’s doing. Staff and scepter direct damage is pretty weak and you won’t be hitting much on Life blast either.

Condition necro actually have less survability than zerker mesmers for example, so don’t talk about less risk.

Oh come on, don’t act like it’s hard to attune to water and spam some skills. If you cannot stay above 90% hp against a condition build, then it’s l2p issue, same thing. I never said it’s great trait, I stated it’s badly designed and should be reworked. It can be a viable option, while having a counterplay. I seriously do not understand why anyone would be against that.

And to the troll post about vitality and toughness amulets – they won’t prevent you from doing power nor condition damage to their wearer, completely different thing.

But as I can see it’s pretty much useless to to lead any discussion here, since people will just defend broken traits as Diamon trait is. No wonder the game is at this state.

Laraley.7695:

But as I can see it’s pretty much useless to to lead any discussion here, since people will just defend broken traits as Diamon trait is. No wonder the game is at this state.

Diamond skin is a counter trait that has a pretty easy to counter threshold. I think it’s one of the best balanced grandmaster traits in the game and I believe Anet think the same.

I would trade it for Heightened Focus or Force of Will any day. Or even a useful elite, or stealth, or clones. So many classes have greater advantages.

Most eles think it’s not even that good because basically 90% of the time it’s not even working unless you’re fighting a really bad condi cheese build. Stone heart is much better anyway.

A lot of things are broken, and diamond skin isn’t one of them.

Reading this thread reminds me of the rampage, turret engi, thief threads.

If you are having a problem with “insert mechanic/class” go somewhere else. That’s basically what is being said about rampage warrior or what was said about turret engi. The turret engi defenders said “Bring condition” or “Rotate off” which is directly related the comments here that say “Bring damage” or “Rotate off”.

So is it therefore the consensus that when you can’t beat a build with a certain class you just say “Nope.”?

I agree, since Resistance is a thing now, skills and traits that make you immune to conditions should grant pulsing Resistance instead. That way those effects are somewhat counterable (even if only till the next pulse comes).

haha i’ve read it all now. Condition users being able to stack 2 defensive stats and STILL do a ton of cond damage has been broken ever since cond started getting buffs. So no __it? someone FINALLY counters your build? Conditions have been easy mode in pvp and wvw roaming forever. God forbid your ultra tank dmg condition build has to finally switch some things up

CrassBippy.4619:

haha i’ve read it all now. Condition users being able to stack 2 defensive stats and STILL do a ton of cond damage has been broken ever since cond started getting buffs.

What? Has someone put Dire amulet in pvp and I didn’t notice?

CrassBippy.4619:

haha i’ve read it all now. Condition users being able to stack 2 defensive stats and STILL do a ton of cond damage has been broken ever since cond started getting buffs. So no __it? someone FINALLY counters your build? Conditions have been easy mode in pvp and wvw roaming forever. God forbid your ultra tank dmg condition build has to finally switch some things up

Rabid won’t break Diamond Skin and what ton of condi damage? You must be in hotjoin I’m not even sure if that has “a condition meta”.

As an ele player, if you are defending dd ele I say thay you are just power drunk. It is too strong and easy. It brings shame to profession, that everybody can easily memorize ait and win. There was some grace in it before at least.

Sagat.3285:

CrassBippy.4619:

haha i’ve read it all now. Condition users being able to stack 2 defensive stats and STILL do a ton of cond damage has been broken ever since cond started getting buffs. So no __it? someone FINALLY counters your build? Conditions have been easy mode in pvp and wvw roaming forever. God forbid your ultra tank dmg condition build has to finally switch some things up

Rabid won’t break Diamond Skin and what ton of condi damage? You must be in hotjoin I’m not even sure if that has “a condition meta”.

No, he’s from wvw that’s why the ‘’ton of condi damage’’ and ‘’use sinister and rampager’’.

Laraley.7695:

Sagat.3285:

CrassBippy.4619:

haha i’ve read it all now. Condition users being able to stack 2 defensive stats and STILL do a ton of cond damage has been broken ever since cond started getting buffs. So no __it? someone FINALLY counters your build? Conditions have been easy mode in pvp and wvw roaming forever. God forbid your ultra tank dmg condition build has to finally switch some things up

Rabid won’t break Diamond Skin and what ton of condi damage? You must be in hotjoin I’m not even sure if that has “a condition meta”.

No, he’s from wvw that’s why the ‘’ton of condi damage’’ and ‘’use sinister and rampager’’.

WvW has no place here the only viable condi spec vs players that I have heard using rampager or sinister is engi it’s not better than rabid or cele soooo.

Sagat.3285:

Laraley.7695:

Sagat.3285:

CrassBippy.4619:

haha i’ve read it all now. Condition users being able to stack 2 defensive stats and STILL do a ton of cond damage has been broken ever since cond started getting buffs. So no __it? someone FINALLY counters your build? Conditions have been easy mode in pvp and wvw roaming forever. God forbid your ultra tank dmg condition build has to finally switch some things up

Rabid won’t break Diamond Skin and what ton of condi damage? You must be in hotjoin I’m not even sure if that has “a condition meta”.

No, he’s from wvw that’s why the ‘’ton of condi damage’’ and ‘’use sinister and rampager’’.

WvW has no place here the only viable condi spec vs players that I have heard using rampager or sinister is engi it’s not better than rabid or cele soooo.

Well, obviously since you can’t even have sinister in pvp and rampager is not a great choice anyway. Thing is the state of condition necro is completely different in wvw due to food buffs and perplexity runes. I’m just saying that he’s comparing different things.

The game is not based on duels. It’s a team game. Play as a team and it’s not an issue

Play as a team, in solo queue or ranked queue without voice coms because you are pugs and ping or type while actively engaging. That’s a bit difficult. Or do you mean for the other 4 members to leave their fights to help you because they are just sitting on the sideline watching you 1v1 like this is some weekly contest?

I could understand this on a thief since they play for spike damage and it would take skill to stay above 90% but putting this on a bunker class which is excellent at bunker doesn’t allow for much counter play.

ASP.8093:

Imagine a 5-bunker team. Is it a problem that there are totally specs that a 5-bunker team just couldn’t kill?

Imagine a PVT warrior without a source of Poison hitting like a wet noodle and thus being unable to out-DPS a cele ele’s basic rotation no matter how hard he CCs or concentrates his “burst.”

Folks act like “conditions” and “direct damage” are supposed to be two sides of the same coin, but they forget that condition builds aren’t going all-in on damage. They’re typically really tanky and hard to bring down, while still being able to do good damage and even “burst,” to a degree. The price of that is cleansing, which is an all-or-nothing removal mechanic. Diamond Skin is just uber-cleansing that you can’t overload by bringing a second teammate with a trivial understanding of timing.

Not sure about the coin comment. That metaphor could be interpreted in so many different ways. However, condi builds are tankier, granted, but conditions can be cleansed. So the tankiness is already balanced with lower DPS. I mean, you basically made the same case.

Now on top there is a passive condi immunity trait. But for direct damage, which is considerably higher (putting the over the top burning aside), there isn’t such an equivalent (if there is, I missed it).

Why is that okay?

Laraley.7695:

Of course this game is not based on 1v1’s, it’s also not based on conquest, yet it’s balanced around it while introducing new game modes that are completely different. Still that doesn’t matter.

Diamond Skin is a balanced skill in conquest. The game is indeed based on conquest. 1/3rd of it actually! WvW and PvE are the other 2/3.

Go and try how easy time you will be having in a 1v1 against a diamond skill ele that knows that he’s doing. Staff and scepter direct damage is pretty weak and you won’t be hitting much on Life blast either.

I thought we went over this…

Condition necro actually have less survability than zerker mesmers for example, so don’t talk about less risk.

I’ll say it again: in general, condition builds are a less risk less reward play style compared to zerker builds.

Oh come on, don’t act like it’s hard to attune to water and spam some skills. If you cannot stay above 90% hp against a condition build, then it’s l2p issue, same thing. I never said it’s great trait, I stated it’s badly designed and should be reworked. It can be a viable option, while having a counterplay. I seriously do not understand why anyone would be against that.

Again, skills should be balanced around game modes. The game mode we’re talking about here is conquest which is comprised of two teams of 5 battling it out over 2-3 nodes. Sometimes you might encounter a 1v1. Depending on your amulet, you might or might not be able to get the ele below 90%. I use something called TeamSpeak or even easier, in-game Team Chat, to communicate to my team so that I can prepare accordingly for an encounter with such an ele. As Lyssa would have it, I haven’t ever had a match-defining issue with a Diamond Skin ele on my Rabid amulet temporal condition shatter build.

But as I can see it’s pretty much useless to to lead any discussion here, since people will just defend broken traits as Diamon trait is. No wonder the game is at this state.

I actually think you might be right on this one in choosing to not lead any discussion here. I’m already exhausted of the circular arguing.

Giving an ele resistance over the current 90% threshold would be an unnecessary buff. It’s easier to get an ele below 90% than to continuously strip pulsing Resistance. If people are that off-put by it, maybe the threshold should only apply while in Earth Magic. Idk, I feel like no one would ever use it then. lol

Overall hard counters are a bad game design IMO and was a fatal flaw in GW1. While some specs can be a little better verse others overall all classes should be pretty viable against other classes. It’s simply laziness on the devs part since designing around hard counters is much easier than being balanced overall.

But… Gw2 isn’t balanced around 1v1? If it hard counters you… Go somewhere else?

When I’m on my conditionmancer, if I see “immune, immune, immune” when hitting an Ele I just high-tail it out of there. I’m not gonna stick around and struggle against something I stand no chance against. I’ll call my team to come help.

Ross Biddle.2367:

So ah, Diamond skin aint just a nifty trait to give conditions a hard time. While it might proc the ‘immune’ floater when you’re trying to land a condi on an ele running this trait, it might aswell spam “invulnerable” to any condition build that gives the ele a sideways look. Especially considering things like D/D ele with their high mobility/reset and burst healing. Vs. a condi build, diamon skin is teh passive OP .

• Suggested change: Diamond Skin grants 3s resistance every 3s while health is above the threshold- 90%.

This way a condi user can still stack up his condi’s, but can also strip the resistance as counter play to create windows of opportunity to take the Diamond Skin ele down. This would make actual dodging/evading important again for the ele instead of just ignoring all condi builds actions -_-u

We got resistance now. Might as well use it and solve some problems we couldn’t before.

I have a better idea. Get some power in your build instead of loading up 100% on OP conditions.

I run s/f cele diamond skin build and I mop the floor with pure condition-based builds. Not just because of diamond skin, but also because I have tooled practically every trait and utility for condition removal. And because people like you have this ridiculous idea that all you need to do in order to win is look at your enemy and bleed/poison/torment them to death in 5s.

As far as I can see, it’s the only thing countering the current meta. That’s exactly why I built it. I have to wear down the enemy in a battle of attrition, it isn’t a burst build at all, but it’s the only counter.

You just want to destroy it so you can continue your unchecked rampage throughout PvP riding on ridiculously strong conditions. How about you learn to play and maybe you’ll be able to get the ele below 90% hp (which requires dealing all of about 1,200-2,000 damage) so you can apply your precious conditions.

Provost.6210:

Ross Biddle.2367:

So ah, Diamond skin aint just a nifty trait to give conditions a hard time. While it might proc the ‘immune’ floater when you’re trying to land a condi on an ele running this trait, it might aswell spam “invulnerable” to any condition build that gives the ele a sideways look. Especially considering things like D/D ele with their high mobility/reset and burst healing. Vs. a condi build, diamon skin is teh passive OP .

• Suggested change: Diamond Skin grants 3s resistance every 3s while health is above the threshold- 90%.

This way a condi user can still stack up his condi’s, but can also strip the resistance as counter play to create windows of opportunity to take the Diamond Skin ele down. This would make actual dodging/evading important again for the ele instead of just ignoring all condi builds actions -_-u

We got resistance now. Might as well use it and solve some problems we couldn’t before.

I have a better idea. Get some power in your build instead of loading up 100% on OP conditions.

I run s/f cele diamond skin build and I mop the floor with pure condition-based builds. Not just because of diamond skin, but also because I have tooled practically every trait and utility for condition removal. And because people like you have this ridiculous idea that all you need to do in order to win is look at your enemy and bleed/poison/torment them to death in 5s.

As far as I can see, it’s the only thing countering the current meta. That’s exactly why I built it. I have to wear down the enemy in a battle of attrition, it isn’t a burst build at all, but it’s the only counter.

You just want to destroy it so you can continue your unchecked rampage throughout PvP riding on ridiculously strong conditions. How about you learn to play and maybe you’ll be able to get the ele below 90% hp (which requires dealing all of about 1,200-2,000 damage) so you can apply your precious conditions.

You don’t understand me as a player, so I can understand the tone of your response. I havent actually played a condition build in about two years now. I play power now, and did play hybrid in the meantime between the two. Anyway, I subscribe to and promote “Playing to win”, which is exactly why I do the same thing you do and bring builds that can fully cleanse and shut condition users out of the game. And why wouldn’t I if it’s going to produce the win? The condition application and cleansing game still has ebb and flow though, and a condition user can still gain traction, either through some measure of damage application or condition based CC to generate cause and effect. Diamond Skin on the otherhand doesn’t allow for this to occur. It universally shuts out condi setups to the point that, in an ele vs condi build matchup you’d be a moron not to take it because it’s a guaranteed victory.

Now this is the point where Mailmail gets a headache because the argument goes circular. You’ll say its a team game so rotate away and/or bring a friend power friend to come deal with the ele. Yes, again, play to win, this is the method to victory given the scenario and how to overcome it. But this line of argument ignores what’s being said in this thread. That diamond skin is badly designed and needs to be reworked. Not removed, not nerfed. It should have the same effect but allow for good players running condi setups a means of counterplay, which in turn should require the diamond skin ele to execute counterplay (i.e. condi user attempts to remove boon, dSkin ele dodges for one example). Generating a scenario where the ele idles with heal procs while they wait for an actual power player to arrive is bad game design at its finest.

@Provost:
And this is where the problem lies. People talking of condition meta and the “need” of countering it with a ridiculous amount of cleanses on top of condi immunity. Is it an advantage? Yes! Is it needed? Not in the slightest.

This is what I suspected all along: A general (and irrational) dislike of conditions what makes people okay with diamond skin in its current iteration.

Why is there no trait that gives immunity to physical damage when HP at 90%. Physical damage is generally higher and easier to apply and its effects are way faster.

Provost.6210:

-snip-

Sounds like you’ve been rekted 100 too many times by condi specs. Don’t direct your anger at Ross. Ironically enough, he doesn’t even run condi specs. I wish I could feel sorry for you. I suggest condi clear or like you suggest, Diamond Skin… #l2p

As it should be. Stop running cowardly condi builds and play a real class

On a serious note has anyone ever tried running rabid with damage dealing sigils? Could run fire/air; even better, blood and/or leeching. Both steal HP and deal damage that ignores armor. Blood’s damage even scales with power. Not running rabid? Sigil of intelligence with the above mentioned sigils.

Rune of Scavenging
Signet of Vampirism/locust(life steal)
Life Siphon(staff 2)

Traits:
Vampiric
Vampiric Rituals
Vampiric Presence

Dark Fields with projectile finishers steal hp as well and deasl damage.

skills with dark fields:
Well of corruption/darkness/power/suffering

Skills with projectile finishers:
Necrotic Grasp(staff 1)
Flesh wurm has a 100% projectile finisher.
Bone fiend has two 100% on a single attack.

There are many options you can take. This one focuses on life stealing which necros do very well. Use what you have at your disposal.

@Doomdesire:
Lol, bitterness detected.

@Tyreal:
That seems a good way to adapt. But it might not be possible for every profession (besides the sigils of course).

TyPin.9860:

@Doomdesire:
Lol, bitterness detected.

@Tyreal:
That seems a good way to adapt. But it might not be possible for every profession (besides the sigils of course).

I’m not the one kittening or having trouble with a trait that is completely worthless unless you run pure condi

Let me guess, PU condi mesmer?

Doomdesire.9365:

TyPin.9860:

@Doomdesire:
Lol, bitterness detected.

@Tyreal:
That seems a good way to adapt. But it might not be possible for every profession (besides the sigils of course).

I’m not the one kittening or having trouble with a trait that is completely worthless unless you run pure condi

Let me guess, PU condi mesmer?

You guessed wrong. Power LockDown.

Get yourself few pieces of Sinister gear/trinkets.

Diamond Skin is useless.

Should be buffed and HP threshold should be ~80% HP.

Tao.1234:

Get yourself few pieces of Sinister gear/trinkets.

Diamond Skin is useless.

Should be buffed and HP threshold should be ~80% HP.

I’m seriously confused. This is pvp forum, you cannot use Sinister in pvp, why do people keep giving this useless advice?

Laraley.7695:

Tao.1234:

Get yourself few pieces of Sinister gear/trinkets.

Diamond Skin is useless.

Should be buffed and HP threshold should be ~80% HP.

I’m seriously confused. This is pvp forum, you cannot use Sinister in pvp, why do people keep giving this useless advice?

Carrion Amulet.

Point was to get yourself power stat anyway.