Guild Wars 2

Hello guys,

99 % of all eles im meeting in PvP are using Diamond skin. If im solo at close or try to get far and a ele is coming i cant do more than just running away cause even if its the worst ele of all times and im like the over pro with necro or a other condi class you just cant win against him cause he is using 1 trait.

I got no problem if a class got many condi removes or got a nice sustain but if a class is immortal against condis in a 1v1 or 2v1 (if both players are condi/hybrid) and wins just because of 1 trait that dont require any kind of skill thats just not ok.

In my opinion it should be a dmg reduction and not a immunity for example over 75 % hp reduce condi dmg to 50 %. So i got at least a chance to win against a ele in a 1 v1 and 2 condis will win against a ele.

just my 2 cent

It needs a complete rework basically. It should have gotten reworked / removed in the 23rd June patch realistically.

I just got a match Mid Teamfight lost im on respawn i have to go far cause mid is totaly useless but on far is a ele so i cant make him any dmg while he can just relax and dmg me down. You can be the best condi necro of the world and have not a single chance in a 1 v 1 against the worst ele of the world. It feels so unfair and a rework would just make sense to me. If you compare it to the no crit trait you deal at least some normal dmg no crits but dmg …

It needs a rework not a nerf. Nerf it and Ele is into the trash. (I’d be so happy I’d cry)

But we cant have that. I recall someone having a suggestion for condi-immunity based on attunement. Mechanics in mind, (Attunment CD on swap) it seems like a great solution.

But nothing should be fully immune to all condis, especially with heals.

Yes and no.

Yes because the elementalist is overpowered with it, no because the elementalist is too frail without it.

+1 for rework. Whoever implemented that trait somehow found the finest line between destruction and invulnerability and seated elementalist right on the middle of it. I’m still trying to figure out if that’s a stroke of genius or just the worst luck in the world. (best luck in the world?)

Conditions should still have a counter, and I mean a spammeable one, using utility skills won’t cut it cause conditions can be reapplied at a very fast rate and having all utility skills to prevent this would be just another annoying meta. I am talking about something like burning fire (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burning_Fire) that should be available to all classes not necessary on traits such as signets, stances, spirits …maybe even a sigil

for me no ( i don’t play ele often ) . the reason is simple . if you can not go through diamond skin with your direct damage it is a problem of your build…. too lower direct damage .

PierPiero.9142:

for me no ( i don’t play ele often ) . the reason is simple . if you can not go through diamond skin with your direct damage it is a problem of your build…. too lower direct damage .

What about those builds that open with a condi bomb?

Azure The Heartless.3261:

PierPiero.9142:

for me no ( i don’t play ele often ) . the reason is simple . if you can not go through diamond skin with your direct damage it is a problem of your build…. too lower direct damage .

What about those builds that open with a condi bomb?

Save the best part for dessert?

Eles in general need a big adjustment. Their sustain to damage is out of alignment.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Yes and no.

Yes because the elementalist is overpowered with it, no because the elementalist is too frail without it.

+1 for rework. Whoever implemented that trait somehow found the finest line between destruction and invulnerability and seated elementalist right on the middle of it. I’m still trying to figure out if that’s a stroke of genius or just the worst luck in the world. (best luck in the world?)

This IS Anet we’re talking about XD

PierPiero.9142:

for me no ( i don’t play ele often ) . the reason is simple . if you can not go through diamond skin with your direct damage it is a problem of your build…. too lower direct damage .

That’s not true. Anything that isn’t an hybrid condi / pwoer like viper rev is blatant hard countered by diamond skin.
Condi necro, inge, burn guards, etc

The current iteration of tempest is keeping many condi builds from being viable.

Viper rev can get through ds. Or the fight will just never end.

No DS is fine. Us dd attacks to get through it and interrupt the ele when they go to use their big heals.

Engel.6029:

No DS is fine. Us dd attacks to get through it and interrupt the ele when they go to use their big heals.

Yup….use wimpy auto attack to try and break through all the protection and heals all the while the ele has 3-4 dodges in a row….You sir, are the winner of the day for the dumb-dumb award!

TLDR: Yes, diamond skin is a broken mechanic that provides immense reward for literally no effort. Hard counters are not healthy for any PVP game, especially when they hard counter an ENTIRE play-style not just a class

…using auto attack as an argument xD

Nocta.5274:

It needs a complete rework basically. It should have gotten reworked / removed in the 23rd June patch realistically.

This basically.

I dont think that ds is op perse but it is a terrible mechanic. Immunities should always be time/cooldown based and never based on a health threshold.

DS IMO is an OP mechanic. The problem is that it doesnt really open any damage window once you get the ele down in HP – they just heal up instantly and are invoulnerable to condis again. All that it really need is something akin to revealed – a cd after DS is broken until it goes up again (even if the ele is at 100% HP).

A good condi reaper or viper rev can break through it

Blooperz.6145:

Engel.6029:

No DS is fine. Us dd attacks to get through it and interrupt the ele when they go to use their big heals.

Yup….use wimpy auto attack to try and break through all the protection and heals all the while the ele has 3-4 dodges in a row….You sir, are the winner of the day for the dumb-dumb award!

TLDR: Yes, diamond skin is a broken mechanic that provides immense reward for literally no effort. Hard counters are not healthy for any PVP game, especially when they hard counter an ENTIRE play-style not just a class

What class do you play?

It is OP, but it is also the only thing keeping necros, and to a lesser extent revenants, from ruining the game even more. Any nerf would have to come with a nerf to the condition bomb.

ill explayn really fast and understandable(hopefully)
IF ele overall healing outside water attunement would be lovered then diamond skin could be broken by many builds so it would not be that “op”
the problem with this trait is at the moment that eles can outheal GREAT amount of pressure ANY time they want. U know … SPAMM THE AURASSS!!!!→ the timed phys burst of lets say carryon builds are irrelevant compared to the constant healing effects.
conclusion: if you lover the ridiculous healing of eles (this should happen anyways) would lead to the situation where diamond skin could not be mentained 24/7

Sorry but anyone going “OH IF YOU CANNOT BREAK IT IT’S YOUR FAULT”

Remember, Eles have a plethora of heals on them.

I have no idea why diamond exploit and warrior zerker stance havent been changed to resistance.

Flumek.9043:

I have no idea why diamond exploit and warrior zerker stance havent been changed to resistance.

I’m less concerned about Berserker’s Stance, since that is a finite amount of time on a cooldown. It’s annoying, but it can be played around.

But yes, Diamond Skin needs an overhaul. I’m surprised it didn’t get changed when the Specializations patch hit.

HINT stop stacking a full team with condi builds and bunker builds! They are easy to kill. Have 1 power hammer rev spam 1 and ele dies quite fast. People just expect everything to be so easy, without even considering reading what the skill does or how to counter it. They just cry nerf because 1. they are too lazy or 2. because the have no clue how the ability works!

Diamond Skin is a terrible trait. It is almost always either stupidly OP or borderline worthless depending on what you face. It doesn’t need to be turned into a bad trait, it needs to be turned into a trait that is actually fun to play against.

The real problem imo is that diamond skin gives Eles to much mobility in a fight; so i think the best way to balance the trait would be to make them ONLY immune to damage based conditions, and make them susceptible to soft-cc (ie: Cripple and Immobilize). Not sure if Chill should be put in there considering Reaper makes Chill do damage.

What do you guys think?

Edit: Keep in mind with 90% health threshold

Lets just add a trait to another profession that makes you completely immune to direct damage above 90% hp…then all these morons saying “LOL IF YOU CANT BREAK IT YOUR BAD” would realize how dumb their argument is. If someone wants to play condi they should be able to, telling them to go hybrid or power is not a solution to what the majority of players (including top Ele players) agree is not balanced in any way whatsoever. Something like DS which provides IMMENSE reward for PASSIVE game-play has no place in a game that wants it’s competitive PvP to be taken seriously. Make it a usable ability with an actual cool-down and then we can talk about it being balanced.

" Make it a usable ability with an actual cool-down and then we can talk about it being balanced."

This is something I agree with. Maybe attach diamond skin to armor of earth and aftershock?

Either way so many classes need radical rebalancing. Cheese will always be with us, but we need to eradicate the cheesiest cheese. Throw spamming is cheese, but it has counters so it’s acceptable whereas Akuma is so overpowered he’s uber-cheese.

“Not sure if Chill should be put in there considering Reaper makes Chill do damage.
What do you guys think?
Edit: Keep in mind with 90% health threshold”

Chill should keep immunity because it happens so much it needs some counter.

Most simple solution honestly: Diamond skin only blocks dmg condis.

That would be more than enough for me really. Immob, criple, chill(even necro chill)
go through.
Edit: Didnt read all the rants, already posted by someone else.

Those who oppose Diamond Skin

• Condi classes can’t counter, outplay/outsmart any Elementalist with DS on
• It’s the only condi defense trait in the game that actually 100% counters condition heavy classes except power+crit+condi hybrid glass amulets.
• Asking for a trait mechanical rework, not a removal"

Those saying Diamond Skin is fine

• Run with power friends.
• Don’t choose a condi build, choose bunk or power instead.
• I’m a power/condi/crit Rev and have no issues
• I don’t like condi, so, a trait that counters it is fine

There’s no mechanical justification for Diamond Skin being the way it is.

I main an Elly with Diamond Skin:

If you play an Elly without Diamond Skin you die. You just melt, you really do – completely and utterly. Try it. Take stoneskin instead, boom you’re dead in seconds. Everyone knows Viper Revenants counter Diamond Skin ellies atm because they can break through DS on their own.

If a good Revenant can solo a DS Tempest who has DS, Condi Cleanse on Aura, and staff skills like Healing rain what does that tell you? I even switch out to ether renewal and Revenants can still wear you down…

I honestly believe Diamond Skin is the only thing in this entire game which is preventing a new pure condi bomb meta. Nearly every team has a Tempest in with Diamond Skin, a Tempest who can negate condi’s on themselves for a time, and thus keep cleansing Condi’s on team mates and keep people up. Nobody can cleanse condi’s like a DS Aura Tempest atm, and if they can still die 1v1 to a hybrid condi build then we’re in trouble.

If Diamond Skin were really THAT overpowered you’d see Condi specs die out… But they don’t, they can still wipe a team with a DS elly in it, its just the DS elly gives the team some sustain before they die.

Remove Diamond Skin from the game and Ellies melt, if Ellies melt to Condi’s and can’t cleanse condi’s on their team mates their team mates will melt faster. Condi’s will take over and it’ll just be pure condi teams condi bombing everyone.

Mark my words. Nerf DS by all means. I have no problem with that. But Condi bomb will have to be nerfed too.

Towren.1745:

I main an Elly with Diamond Skin:

If you play an Elly without Diamond Skin you die. You just melt, you really do – completely and utterly. Try it. Take stoneskin instead, boom you’re dead in seconds. Everyone knows Viper Revenants… ………. Lol
-snip

Revenant facts:
Are OP 1v1 and 5v5 skirmish fights both…
Uses a Glass amulet with Power + Crit stats
Is NOT and does NOT represent condition builds!

Towren.1745:

I main an Elly with Diamond Skin:

If you play an Elly without Diamond Skin you die. You just melt, you really do – completely and utterly. Try it. Take stoneskin instead, boom you’re dead in seconds. Everyone knows Viper Revenants counter Diamond Skin ellies atm because they can break through DS on their own.

If a good Revenant can solo a DS Tempest who has DS, Condi Cleanse on Aura, and staff skills like Healing rain what does that tell you? I even switch out to ether renewal and Revenants can still wear you down…

Given it’s the only “condi build” (it’s glass cannon hybrid, btw) that can do it, I’d say it says a hell of a lot more about Revenants than the power of Condi builds right now.

And condition builds have always been held in check by team-wide cleansing and Necros in general. Celestial D/D ele was quite strong against condis before (still is!) and Shoutbow, which can still function at the same anti-condition capacity, completely shut them out of the meta.

No, the reason condition builds (of which, only condi Reaper is actually a condition build and genuinely competitive) are “strong” is because people stopped running cleanses, especially group cleanses.

the one trick pony whaaambulance drivers are back with a new cross to carry, maybe stop playing a build that relies on your opening move being load em up with 9 condis in 3 seconds. there are plenty of ways to beat DS if you adjust your build/playstyle or maybe just maybe play with a team and if your a condie bomb then go after the other 8 classes that it works on and let your DPS team mates hit the ele for the 1800 damage needed to break DS

Defiling Treekiller.1632:

the one trick pony whaaambulance drivers are back with a new cross to carry, maybe stop playing a build that relies on your opening move being load em up with 9 condis in 3 seconds. there are plenty of ways to beat DS if you adjust your build/playstyle or maybe just maybe play with a team and if your a condie bomb then go after the other 8 classes that it works on and let your DPS team mates hit the ele for the 1800 damage needed to break DS

I’m perfectly fine with a team made of instant AoE cleansing Guardians + Water Cleansing Ele + Condi transfering Necros + Shout Cleansing Warriors.

I’m not fine with 1 trait mechanic doing all the work for the Ele, without the need of other players.

If you think we’re complaining about condi viability then you’ve completely misinterprered all of these obvious threads. We’re asking for a mechanical change here.

edited: It’s the same cross btw… our views about DS hasn’t changed…

IronPhoenix.2045:

Hello guys,

99 % of all eles im meeting in PvP are using Diamond skin. If im solo at close or try to get far and a ele is coming i cant do more than just running away cause even if its the worst ele of all times and im like the over pro with necro or a other condi class you just cant win against him cause he is using 1 trait.

I got no problem if a class got many condi removes or got a nice sustain but if a class is immortal against condis in a 1v1 or 2v1 (if both players are condi/hybrid) and wins just because of 1 trait that dont require any kind of skill thats just not ok.

In my opinion it should be a dmg reduction and not a immunity for example over 75 % hp reduce condi dmg to 50 %. So i got at least a chance to win against a ele in a 1 v1 and 2 condis will win against a ele.

just my 2 cent

A reaper should destroy an ele…. use staff auto with your boon stripping signets which amp direct damage then condi burst w/cc. People keep complaining about this but it doesn’t make sense to me. It’s super powerful in a cleric style build where the ele does virtually no damage. If you can strip their protection it takes like two hits and it’s gone. Compare that to the grand master for necro that’s stacking how much(long? ) burning per hit that can splash multiple enemies and is hitting multiple times per second. I don’t see the big issue.

Cecilia.5179:

Diamond Skin is a terrible trait. It is almost always either stupidly OP or borderline worthless depending on what you face. It doesn’t need to be turned into a bad trait, it needs to be turned into a trait that is actually fun to play against.

So like, Diamond Skin turns you into Edward Cullen?

And further its the minor trait giving protection on aura that’s the reason eles are going into the earth line. Ele has so much condi removal anyway it wouldn’t justify the dps boost from something like permanent fury from the fire line if it weren’t for that easy protection access.

HipposWild.7185:

And further its the minor trait giving protection on aura that’s the reason eles are going into the earth line. Ele has so much condi removal anyway it wouldn’t justify the dps boost from something like permanent fury from the fire line if it weren’t for that easy protection access.

Minor trait? you mean the major adept trait that we choose?

Would it be fine to just have DS changed to “Protection also affects conditions”? Then the high prot uptime on the ele would be a benefit against both condis and direct damage while still allowing it to die if played against properly (tempest increasing the effectiveness of prot would allow tempests to remain bunkerish towards condis while stopping them from being immortal vs condi based builds). Ofc, the best eles would still be extremely difficult to kill as they would manage sustain and condi clear properly but then those who are inexperienced/ just plain bad would not be immortal hardcounters to pure condi builds that don’t build direct damage just to fight a single trait. Idk, I just thought it may work but I’m not a huge ele player so if that wouldn’t work, feel free to call me on it.

A good diamond skin ele can tank a raw power necro, including boon corruption/boon rips. All that while still doing decent damage. I think that says a lot about how OP tempest bunking really is, Diamond Skin being huge part of the issue.

Yesterday as a glass Warrior.

I faced 2 DS Eles in mid while we got 1 reaper.

we kitten d them, I bring their HP down then our Reaper Nuke them with condis.

So ya bring more Warriors lol.

The game is not balanced around 1v1, ele’s build which use diamond skin is usualy celestial support build, which is centered around beeing alive, not sure why you can’t do a few attacks to drop his health by 10% down before you pump him full of conditions.

I play alot of matches with ele, its actualy pretty funny to see a condi necro who goes for an Ele, not sure why they do that when there are 4 OTHER targets in the game, he can and should just leave ele for someone else to handle.

I mean it IS A TEAM GAME after all, if you could win 1v1 vs anyone then everyone would cry about something else.

Flavor of the month ftw

#elefotmftw

Dear Mr Condibombopener,

I sincerely regret to read comments from others in this thread, who would if I may suggest be a tad more sensitive towards how you feel. Let me be the first to offer my most sincere apologies to you and all your ilk who can’t condi bomb as an opening attack. It is unfair that there is absolutely no way around it, that you are forced to rely on others or even adapt your build or change your approach or play another. Really, I imagine it must be hard and selfish of those who play with such a diamond skin trait, and to carelessly extinguish away only all your fun. Pvp must not feel balanced for you at all. Again, I hope the next round of pvp balancing fixes will be kinder to you.

Yours regretfully,
ImainDSele

Ario.8964:

Would it be fine to just have DS changed to “Protection also affects conditions”? Then the high prot uptime on the ele would be a benefit against both condis and direct damage while still allowing it to die if played against properly (tempest increasing the effectiveness of prot would allow tempests to remain bunkerish towards condis while stopping them from being immortal vs condi based builds). Ofc, the best eles would still be extremely difficult to kill as they would manage sustain and condi clear properly but then those who are inexperienced/ just plain bad would not be immortal hardcounters to pure condi builds that don’t build direct damage just to fight a single trait. Idk, I just thought it may work but I’m not a huge ele player so if that wouldn’t work, feel free to call me on it.

Yes thats a great solution. Another solution would be to make a threshold of 3 condis and then gain resistance for 4 sec with 20-30 sec cd. So you can still apply condis and he will get the dmg after 4 sec if he wont clean and its not immune permanently to condis.

I do hope Anet asks pro players first about the DS trait change, since newbies and players who are having a hard time around it probably lack some skill to do so, its not really hard to bring down 10% of a players hp before you nuke him with conditions.

Though i can imagine how it is for players who smash all the buttons as soon as target enters range and think they have won that fight.

Luckily pvp especialy with a team is more deeper than that, i just hope people will realize it

Wing.5487:

I do hope Anet asks pro players first about the DS trait change, since newbies and players who are having a hard time around it probably lack some skill to do so, its not really hard to bring down 10% of a players hp before you nuke him with conditions.

Though i can imagine how it is for players who smash all the buttons as soon as target enters range and think they have won that fight.

Luckily pvp especialy with a team is more deeper than that, i just hope people will realize it

Because it’s so possible to deal that much damage when they are taking half damage, and keep them from using their instant-cast heals to top right back up without the reduction from poison…

If, as a condi build, you beat a diamond skin tempest right now, it’s not because you are good. It’s because the Tempest is terrible.

So, you condi people are not happy that your passive dmg is being counted by a passive trait? Do you guys really have to play Condi? It can hurt yes, but me as a theif is able to keep your condi spam at bay. But I can’t do much to, example 6k life blasts. I can port out yes but my point is that dmg isn’t curable like the passive condi stuff is. So why do you have to run that condi for?