Downstate shouldnt exist in spvp?

Downstate shouldnt exist in spvp?

in PvP

Posted by: MadVisions.4529

MadVisions.4529

Thing is, you can be multiple times better than your opponents even then it is still immeasurably hard to win outnumbered situations.
The main reason behind this is how downstate works. I find the concept about players who got outplayed and downed be able to perform heavily offensive actions from the ground while being able to be brought back a bit flawed.
If you outplay your opponents in a lets say 2v1 situation(where this problem peaks) and meenage to down someone you probably had to waste enough resources to do so therefore unable to stomp/cleave safely to end up in a 1v1(where you are exhausted). Minor cleave isnt enough to stop the vast majority of calsses from rezzing theyr buddy, also if you do so the downed person is going to be pressuring you while you pray to the gods that your cds come up before the engi/druid outheals your cleave and you can start from the beginning with even less hp and ofc downed percon having cd’s up.

Gw2 is really fast paced, but lacks on visible “big plays” heavily. I feel like being better isnt rewarded enough and changing downstate should give a big swing to that. Carrying a team would actually be a thing couse you would be less hindered by opponents second third or fifth chances couse pubs aren’t coordinated enough to downcleave or unable to 2v1.

GW2 is a really unique team game. Others with similar matchmaking and behaviours have in-match progression system where better players can build up stat advantage overtime or the game is fast paced enough to immense knowlege about positioning and reflexes can overcome the outnumbered problems.

I wont propose to remove downstate couse it would lead to much tankier slow gameplay and its the part of the game since ever, but i really want to hear what your opinion in on the topic is.
What do you think downed persons atacking/casting a skill cancels rez sond like as en experimental step? what about being downed freeses cooldowns?

Downstate shouldnt exist in spvp?

in PvP

Posted by: sephiroth.4217

sephiroth.4217

TFW you down 2 power Necros and they outplay while you downed.

I think maybe Druid is another OP one, but that’s purely the ability to switch pets while downed and activate F2 + Ancient seeds.

I mostly play for the new Free-For-All arena in PvP lobby.
….. And Elementalist.

Downstate shouldnt exist in spvp?

in PvP

Posted by: Moonsinn.5382

Moonsinn.5382

Freezing cds would be interesting. Often they are out of cds when they are downed, making it hard to do much after rezzing, but someone who maybe got cc burst would be much more effective.

I don’t like the idea of attacking canceling rezzes. I already have to deal with rezzing dummazzes. I don’t them canceling my rezzes because they are dummazzes.

Aethelweard Rex – Guard
Trist Lockwood – Thief
Aelius Swift – Warrior

Downstate shouldnt exist in spvp?

in PvP

Posted by: martin.1653

martin.1653

Downstate brings a lot of depth to the gameplay and needs to stay. On one hand, getting downed can be pretty bad punishment if enemy leaves you bleeding, but it can also be a chance to come back if your teammates and you are smart enough and can outplay enemy trying to stomp. It’s a double edged blade and it brings variety.

Downstate shouldnt exist in spvp?

in PvP

Posted by: megilandil.7506

megilandil.7506

Thing is, you can be multiple times better than your opponents even then it is still immeasurably hard to win outnumbered situations.
The main reason behind this is how downstate works. I find the concept about players who got outplayed and downed be able to perform heavily offensive actions from the ground while being able to be brought back a bit flawed.
If you outplay your opponents in a lets say 2v1 situation(where this problem peaks) and meenage to down someone you probably had to waste enough resources to do so therefore unable to stomp/cleave safely to end up in a 1v1(where you are exhausted). Minor cleave isnt enough to stop the vast majority of calsses from rezzing theyr buddy, also if you do so the downed person is going to be pressuring you while you pray to the gods that your cds come up before the engi/druid outheals your cleave and you can start from the beginning with even less hp and ofc downed percon having cd’s up.

Gw2 is really fast paced, but lacks on visible “big plays” heavily. I feel like being better isnt rewarded enough and changing downstate should give a big swing to that. Carrying a team would actually be a thing couse you would be less hindered by opponents second third or fifth chances couse pubs aren’t coordinated enough to downcleave or unable to 2v1.

GW2 is a really unique team game. Others with similar matchmaking and behaviours have in-match progression system where better players can build up stat advantage overtime or the game is fast paced enough to immense knowlege about positioning and reflexes can overcome the outnumbered problems.

I wont propose to remove downstate couse it would lead to much tankier slow gameplay and its the part of the game since ever, but i really want to hear what your opinion in on the topic is.
What do you think downed persons atacking/casting a skill cancels rez sond like as en experimental step? what about being downed freeses cooldowns?

or worse you manage to down 2 , and you get on full cds and very low life, what happens? you have to retreat and pray that your cds recover before one can full heal or you will be downed and defeated in ground combat

Downstate shouldnt exist in spvp?

in PvP

Posted by: SneakyTouchy.6043

SneakyTouchy.6043

Personally I think rallying shouldn’t exist, just on the basis of it being a cheese mechanic. While I can understand that it does add complexity to our combat choices and some expression of skill in those choices, I think overall it’s just goofy and best left as a PvE mechanic.

I wouldn’t say there’s anything wrong with the downed state aside from that.

Downstate shouldnt exist in spvp?

in PvP

Posted by: kdaddy.5431

kdaddy.5431

I disagree with your comment OP and Sneaky Touchy.

Downstate is the simply the 2nd phase of the fight. Its not enough to simply down someone, getting the kills without killing yourself in process is key.

Also the rally effect is a key component, it separates good players from great players and so on.

Being able to time your rezzes as well as apply some damage to another down player will determine who will win the skirmish.

If you want to complain about something complain about the fact Anet didnt change rezzing when they released HOT. When everyone is 1000% what they used to be to core GW2 things need to be looked at.

Also the release of Revs, spam guardians on a body etc etc etc.

There is nothing wrong with down state, or rally off of deaths. Hot was a problem for PvP.

Downstate shouldnt exist in spvp?

in PvP

Posted by: Shaogin.2679

Shaogin.2679

I’ve lost fights at mid before because I managed to down a player, but as a Necro being focused, I was unable to get the stomp, and my team was too distracted to stomp. But that is how it should be. If my team is only capable of pewpewing everything they see but not coordinated enough to stomp or res, then by all means we deserve to lose that team fight. To me, the downstate is great as is.

Doc Von Doom – Asuran Necromancer
Gate of Madness
Contribute to the Wiki MetaBattle Builds

Downstate shouldnt exist in spvp?

in PvP

Posted by: roamzero.9486

roamzero.9486

Downstate is fine in sPvP and PvE, it needs to be removed from WvW though.

Downstate shouldnt exist in spvp?

in PvP

Posted by: megilandil.7506

megilandil.7506

I’ve lost fights at mid before because I managed to down a player, but as a Necro being focused, I was unable to get the stomp, and my team was too distracted to stomp. But that is how it should be. If my team is only capable of pewpewing everything they see but not coordinated enough to stomp or res, then by all means we deserve to lose that team fight. To me, the downstate is great as is.

the isue with downstate is downstate habs. In a tie, the two downed, much dependant on class, they need a skills normalization

(edited by megilandil.7506)

Downstate shouldnt exist in spvp?

in PvP

Posted by: Shaogin.2679

Shaogin.2679

I’ve lost fights at mid before because I managed to down a player, but as a Necro being focused, I was unable to get the stomp, and my team was too distracted to stomp. But that is how it should be. If my team is only capable of pewpewing everything they see but not coordinated enough to stomp or res, then by all means we deserve to lose that team fight. To me, the downstate is great as is.

the isue with downstate is downstate habs. In a tie, the two downed, much dependant on class, they need a hab normalization

I’m not really sure what you’ve just said…..what is a hab?

Doc Von Doom – Asuran Necromancer
Gate of Madness
Contribute to the Wiki MetaBattle Builds

Downstate shouldnt exist in spvp?

in PvP

Posted by: megilandil.7506

megilandil.7506

I’ve lost fights at mid before because I managed to down a player, but as a Necro being focused, I was unable to get the stomp, and my team was too distracted to stomp. But that is how it should be. If my team is only capable of pewpewing everything they see but not coordinated enough to stomp or res, then by all means we deserve to lose that team fight. To me, the downstate is great as is.

the isue with downstate is downstate habs. In a tie, the two downed, much dependant on class, they need a hab normalization

I’m not really sure what you’ve just said…..what is a hab?

skills, word isues , im not a natural english user and mostly selflearned reading on internet

Downstate shouldnt exist in spvp?

in PvP

Posted by: Shaogin.2679

Shaogin.2679

I’ve lost fights at mid before because I managed to down a player, but as a Necro being focused, I was unable to get the stomp, and my team was too distracted to stomp. But that is how it should be. If my team is only capable of pewpewing everything they see but not coordinated enough to stomp or res, then by all means we deserve to lose that team fight. To me, the downstate is great as is.

the isue with downstate is downstate habs. In a tie, the two downed, much dependant on class, they need a hab normalization

I’m not really sure what you’ve just said…..what is a hab?

skills, word isues , im not a natural english user and mostly selflearned reading on internet

Well you’ve done great for teaching yourself. As for balancing out downed skills, I agree this should be looked at. My guess though is it just has never been high on their priority list.

Doc Von Doom – Asuran Necromancer
Gate of Madness
Contribute to the Wiki MetaBattle Builds

Downstate shouldnt exist in spvp?

in PvP

Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

Its definitely annoying when you can’t/don’t stop a rez and you get +1’ed while your health is low and CDs are up, however I don’t agree with removing downstate from PvP. If ANet does nerf the downstate they could have it apply 5-10 sec of a new effect similar to weakness. It would decrease endurance regen, have all attacks be glancing blows, and lower your outgoing condi damage by 50% until its up. This is enough to keep revived/rallied players from immediately pressuring you. Even then though I’m not sold on the idea that downstate needs a nerf in PvP yet

Downstate shouldnt exist in spvp?

in PvP

Posted by: Sorem.9157

Sorem.9157

Its definitely annoying when you can’t/don’t stop a rez and you get +1’ed while your health is low and CDs are up, however I don’t agree with removing downstate from PvP. If ANet does nerf the downstate they could have it apply 5-10 sec of a new effect similar to weakness. It would decrease endurance regen, have all attacks be glancing blows, and lower your outgoing condi damage by 50% until its up. This is enough to keep revived/rallied players from immediately pressuring you. Even then though I’m not sold on the idea that downstate needs a nerf in PvP yet

This is actually a quite good idea. Maybe a movement speed debuff?

MIGHTY SOREM STRIKES AGAIN!!!!

Downstate shouldnt exist in spvp?

in PvP

Posted by: Moonsinn.5382

Moonsinn.5382

I’m not so sure about new debuffs. You already are revived with less than full health (less with each successive rez) and have less downed health with successive downs. That’s why there are traits that provide buffs when you rez or rez with more health. I feel like freezing the cds is the most reasonable change. You’re not really in a worse state than when you were downed, but it also doesn’t undo so much of the work you did getting someone down. The’re heal skill and whatever immunity/block/no damage skill will still be on cd. It would be a challenge after being rezzed for sure, but at least you still get another chance.

Aethelweard Rex – Guard
Trist Lockwood – Thief
Aelius Swift – Warrior

Downstate shouldnt exist in spvp?

in PvP

Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

I’m not so sure about new debuffs. You already are revived with less than full health (less with each successive rez) and have less downed health with successive downs. That’s why there are traits that provide buffs when you rez or rez with more health. I feel like freezing the cds is the most reasonable change. You’re not really in a worse state than when you were downed, but it also doesn’t undo so much of the work you did getting someone down. The’re heal skill and whatever immunity/block/no damage skill will still be on cd. It would be a challenge after being rezzed for sure, but at least you still get another chance.

That could possibly work too. To me, the biggest annoyance of someone being rezzed/rallying is their ability to immediately pressure you while your CDs are up. Freezing their CDs while they are downed would definitely alleviate some of that pressure. The reason I’m not sold on it yet though is two fold

1 – The player being rezzed will likely have few of his skills off CD when he is rezzed, making him deadweight sitting at half health and not being able to do much at all. Easy to kill him again depending on which of their CDs were up when they went down. Which begs the question of why allow them up in the first place.

2 – The teammate who revived him put themselves in danger, probably blew their own CD to get the revive in too. They actively hindered themselves for a few seconds in a fight to get their teammate back up, and now that teammate won’t be able to help them turn the fight in their favor.

By simply decreasing the damage that the rezzed player does, it allows them to still heal themselves, allows them to offer team support to their teammate, but still alleviates a great deal of the direct pressure they can put on you.

Downstate shouldnt exist in spvp?

in PvP

Posted by: SlayerSixx.5763

SlayerSixx.5763

If you’re in an outnumbered situation, down one guy and force the other to blow CDs to pick their friend up, get the hell out of there.

You have now stalled 2 people at the cost of stalling yourself and have now given your team a 4v3 situation. As long as you dont die and can either continue to pressure the two or are capable of quickly rotating to the nearest objective to create a 5v3 scenario, you’ve done your job. Not everything in PvP revolves around outright killing your opponents.

Downstate shouldnt exist in spvp?

in PvP

Posted by: Zenith.7301

Zenith.7301

TFW you down 2 power Necros and they outplay while you downed.

I think maybe Druid is another OP one, but that’s purely the ability to switch pets while downed and activate F2 + Ancient seeds.

How the hell is a non-bunker mesmer or ele supposed to cope with thief/warrior burst without downstate to buffer those bursts?

Hell, if necromancer downed state wasn’t strong, it would be even worse than it is when they’re trained because they’re the one guaranteed class that goes down the easiest when you zerg them since they have no immunities, blocks, or teleports, and life force doesn’t scale up — it’s always balanced for 1v1’s.

Downstate shouldnt exist in spvp?

in PvP

Posted by: scorekeeper.6524

scorekeeper.6524

As an engi we suffer from the worst downstate. No stealth, no teleport, no massive bloodsucking ability, no massive knockback until 6 secs on the ground. I’m fine with DS overall but fix engies!!

Downstate shouldnt exist in spvp?

in PvP

Posted by: MadVisions.4529

MadVisions.4529

If you’re in an outnumbered situation, down one guy and force the other to blow CDs to pick their friend up, get the hell out of there.

Some classes got broken rez power w/o investing much. Cough cough engi.
I’m totally aware of how to act in these situations optimally, but i’m not happy with it.

Downstate shouldnt exist in spvp?

in PvP

Posted by: SlayerSixx.5763

SlayerSixx.5763

I mean, youre still rewarded in some way for downing the guy. That guy’s team mate being there at the right time and having enough in their kit to force you off their ally is fair play IMO.

Downstate shouldnt exist in spvp?

in PvP

Posted by: Azoqu.8917

Azoqu.8917

As a burn Guardian I approve of downstate for the sole fact that when people go to res them it is a death sentence for their entire team because of the cleaving burn stacks. The true annoyance is stealthing ressing druids though.

Downstate shouldnt exist in spvp?

in PvP

Posted by: Drakz.7051

Drakz.7051

If they removed it teams would focus on destroying opposing teams over taking and keeping points.

It would make pvp just both groups running around as full groups going from point to point because if a single person dies then your team is at a major disadvantage since you can’t bring them back to the fight, basically it is a small scale wvw.

They should create a new game mode which is all about getting a certain amount of kills as a team to win.