Guild Wars 2

Advent Leader.1083:

jportell.2197:

redslion.9675:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Yeh this trait is ridiculously bad design. Good design = fun for person to play with and against. Making somebody immune to certain builds is NOT fun at all. It is super lame. What next – a new 30 point trait which reads “Under 25% health you take no damage from mesmers”. lol. Ridiculous.

Unfun mechanics to protect players from other unfun mechanics.

^ It is not fun when you are feared over and over (necros can chain it pretty well) this is prolly one of the only builds that directly counters the way the new necro builds/FOTM players are operating there fore it is the last thing that needs nerfed

You know, if you hear this from someone who staunchly is against a certain engineer build, you kinda take a step back and revisit your argument, as an engineer traiting for that setup hits like a wet noodle, even if you can actually might stack him.

An engineer that takes Automated response hits like a wet noodle? Sure and that is fine. They still most likely have some decent condition damage which is also fine. This trait is not OP in that it forces teams to adjust their entire team composition or build one certain way just to make sure they don’t die (FOTM Necros/HGH Engis). It is one bunker build taking a trait that may help them survive. Becoming completely immune to conditions means that finally there is a hard counter to this AOE condi spam meta that is honestly what is ruining the game.

Dirame.8521:

How is it a terrible and weak trait?

Cause it has got both a strict activation requirement (25% hp), a long cooldown and a negligible effect. Being a class with medium hp, 25% is quite low. A bunker spec can have at most around 6600 hp at that threshold and to do that we’re sacrificing any damage capability.
So we would have 5 seconds where we are already taking damage from already applied conditions other than the two that have been cured, we are taking direct damage anyway and we can’t do some decent damage cause we lack the means.
It could be fine as a master trait, maybe. But as a grandmaster? Terrible choice.

Dirame.8521:

And why would you want Cleansing burst every 10 seconds when the original is on a 15s cd?

Evasive Arcana can trigger each spell once every 10 seconds, and it can do different effects (thus, it is more versatile). Also, it is directly activated by the player.
Your version for engineers would have just one of the effects, on triple the cooldown, and it would be activated by the enemies’ action. Basically, they would just have to put on some weak conditions and then burst all the others to make it useless. No one would use such a weak grandmaster trait.

Manuhell.2759:

Dirame.8521:

How is it a terrible and weak trait?

Cause it has got both a strict activation requirement (25% hp), a long cooldown and a negligible effect. Being a class with medium hp, 25% is quite low. A bunker spec can have at most around 6600 hp at that threshold and to do that we’re sacrificing any damage capability.
So we would have 5 seconds where we are already taking damage from already applied conditions other than the two that have been cured, we are taking direct damage anyway and we can’t do some decent damage cause we lack the means.
It could be fine as a master trait, maybe. But as a grandmaster? Terrible choice.

Well all the things you say are problems with my suggestion are also problems with the current trait. Also, the fact that the trait I suggested removes two conditions actually gives you more of a chance to survive. Just because it has a cooldown, doesn’t mean it’s bad.

Manuhell.2759:

Dirame.8521:

And why would you want Cleansing burst every 10 seconds when the original is on a 15s cd?

Evasive Arcana can trigger each spell once every 10 seconds, and it can do different effects (thus, it is more versatile). Also, it is directly activated by the player.
Your version for engineers would have just one of the effects, on triple the cooldown, and it would be activated by the enemies’ action. Basically, they would just have to put on some weak conditions and then burst all the others to make it useless. No one would use such a weak grandmaster trait.

Automated response is activated by enemy action, Hidden Flask is activated by enemy action, Self-Regulating Defenses is activated by enemy action, Final Shielding is activated by enemy action. The list could go on.

And yes, the trait can be tricked into activating (in other words the trait gives the enemy the chance to play smart, this is a good thing) but if you do that, you’re also giving the engineer the opportunity to heal through all your damage because he now has a free water field.

Dirame.8521:

Well all the things you say are problems with my suggestion are also problems with the current trait. Also, the fact that the trait I suggested removes two conditions actually gives you more of a chance to survive. Just because it has a cooldown, doesn’t mean it’s bad.

Survive? You would die five seconds later, if you aren’t already dead due to the previous condition burst. And that’s without considering that you’re still taking direct damage anyway, along with the remaining conditions. With the amount of conditions applied, one already has to use some kind of condition removal to try using the trait as it is now. Healing two conditions would help nothing.

Dirame.8521:

Automated response is activated by enemy action, Hidden Flask is activated by enemy action, Self-Regulating Defenses is activated by enemy action, Final Shielding is activated by enemy action. The list could go on.

And how many of those are build-defining, grandmaster traits? You already have to build as a bunker to even try using it successfully. And as now, it gives a constant effect. The enemy may decide its activation, but not when it ends.

And yes, the trait can be tricked into activating (in other words the trait gives the enemy the chance to play smart, this is a good thing)

Sure, for the enemy is good indeed.
For the user, it makes it near useless, especially when the effect is poor like the one you suggest. It would be activated at the start of the fight, when the healing part is useless, and then the enemy can just burst you down.

but if you do that, you’re also giving the engineer the opportunity to heal through all your damage because he now has a free water field.

Because we have soooo many blast finishers to waste just for a bit of healing, right?
That field is usually used by exploding the turret itself because that turret would die in any case – and if you are using the turret is because you need that healing, not because an enemy activated that effect, anyway.

It would be fine as a master trait, maybe. But certainly not as a grandmaster one.

Manuhell.2759:

Dirame.8521:

Well all the things you say are problems with my suggestion are also problems with the current trait. Also, the fact that the trait I suggested removes two conditions actually gives you more of a chance to survive. Just because it has a cooldown, doesn’t mean it’s bad.

Survive? You would die five seconds later, if you aren’t already dead due to the previous condition burst. And that’s without considering that you’re still taking direct damage anyway, along with the remaining conditions. With the amount of conditions applied, one already has to use some kind of condition removal to try using the trait as it is now. Healing two conditions would help nothing.

I guess that’s where our opinions differ. I think cleansing two conditions would help a lot.

Manuhell.2759:

And how many of those are build-defining, grandmaster traits? You already have to build as a bunker to even try using it successfully. And as now, it gives a constant effect. The enemy may decide its activation, but not when it ends.

How is automated response a build defining trait? It’s a powerful supplement to a build but definitely not a build defining trait. A build defining trait is something like HGH or Elixir Infused Bombs or Static Discharge. People didn’t even touch Automated Response until recently.

Manuhell.2759:

Sure, for the enemy is good indeed.
For the user, it makes it near useless, especially when the effect is poor like the one you suggest. It would be activated at the start of the fight, when the healing part is useless, and then the enemy can just burst you down.

Well look at the Warrior “Shrug it off” trait. That trait isn’t useless because even if it activates when you get crappy condis, you still get a 2k heal from it if you spec towards shouts heal. Warriors still use the trait, and it definitely gives them a lot more survivability.

Manuhell.2759:

Because we have soooo many blast finishers to waste just for a bit of healing, right?
That field is usually used by exploding the turret itself because that turret would die in any case – and if you are using the turret is because you need that healing, not because an enemy activated that effect, anyway.

It would be fine as a master trait, maybe. But certainly not as a grandmaster one.

I think you’re so busy trying to prove me wrong, you’re beginning to under sell the power of this class. Of course we have enough blast finishers, what else would you use them for?

Even if the trait is not build defining, powerful traits are still put in the Grandmaster slot and a trait that does an AoE 2.5k heal (depending on your healing stat) whilst also doing AoE condi removal whilst also dropping a water field, is what I would rank as a powerful trait.

If you don’t play and build around that trait you don’t know how to use it, and you wont get far against opponents with above dead brain activity.

You must actively evaluate the situation (risk vs reward) constantly while saving your full cleanse skill for sub 25% health and having a stunbreak that works good with it (meaning no elixir S or U for example). Also remember that to “tank” with it you need to go defensive in traitlines and stats. So i pick my heal, atleast two utilities and defensive traits to help you stay alive against even a necro with full rabid in death shroud spamming 1. If it isn’t defining i don’t know what is.

I figured if the trait was indeed overpowered, by now there should be a flood of necro threads complaining about it. Almost all I’m seeing here is a back and forth conversation between the op, who amusingly enough happens to be an engie against others.

Like I said before, you can still die by conditions even with it. And if someone decided to go healing/vit/condition dmg with this trait and act as a condi bunker then so what about it? Counter builds are part of the game and if anything having more condi bunkers will can help balance the game in a condition meta. Condition builds will have a hard time against the condi bunkers and we will need to see more power builds.

But of course there is no point in trying to convince some people so thats as much as Ill write in this thread before I keep bumping it more.

Dirame.8521:

How is automated response a build defining trait? It’s a powerful supplement to a build but definitely not a build defining trait. A build defining trait is something like HGH or Elixir Infused Bombs or Static Discharge. People didn’t even touch Automated Response until recently.

I used it even before, but aside that, it is indeed a build defining trait. Cause if you want to use it decently you must spec heavily into vitality and usually also toughness, else your 25% hp will be far too low and you won’t be able to resist being hit with those few hit points without having enough toughness.

Dirame.8521:

Well look at the Warrior “Shrug it off” trait. That trait isn’t useless because even if it activates when you get crappy condis, you still get a 2k heal from it if you spec towards shout heal. Warriors still use the trait, and it definitely gives them a lot more survivability.

“Shrug it off” is a master trait.
And “Vigorous shouts” also affects other shouts beside this one, anyway.

Dirame.8521:

I think you’re so busy trying to prove me wrong, you’re beginning to under sell the power of this class. Of course we have enough blast finisher, what else would you use them for?

Magnetic shield also works as projectile reflect and AoE knockback.
Big Ol’ Bomb, AoE Launch & damage (and it would be difficult to time it with an effect you aren’t actually controlling).
Throw Mine knockbacks and removes a boon.
Rocket Boots is an escape mechanism.
The turrets, well, work as turrets.
And so on.
Being blast finishers isn’t their main use, it is an added bonus.
And since you don’t even control when you’ll have that water field, you would probably waste their other effects.

Dirame.8521:

Even if the trait is not build defining, powerful traits are still put in the Grandmaster slot and a trait that does an AoE 2.5k heal (depending on your healing stat) whilst also doing AoE condi removal whilst also dropping a water field, is what I would rank as a powerful trait.

Except you have no control regarding its activation and the enemy can easily waste it at the beginning of the fight. And then burst you down.
Compare with Vigorous Shouts, that works per every shout casted, whenever the user decides to use a shout, without any cooldown with the trait itself. And thanks to some runes they can heal a condition as well.

If it is saying “immune” then bug report it.

To the OP: a GRAND MASTER trait on a particular build on one class can counter your condi spam. Sorry that you can’t face melt everyone all the time. Suck it up buttercup. Time to change your strategy a little. If you truly do play engineer a lot then you should know how to do this considering how many of our builds have been hit with the nerf-hammer since release. Engi’s adapt to survive, you go play your FOTM

Manuhell.2759:

I used it even before, but aside that, it is indeed a build defining trait. Cause if you want to use it decently you must spec heavily into vitality and usually also toughness, else your 25% hp will be far too low and you won’t be able to resist being hit with those few hit points without having enough toughness.

Fair enough.

Manuhell.2759:

“Shrug it off” is a master trait.
And “Vigorous shouts” also affects other shouts beside this one, anyway.

Yea, Shrug it Off is a master trait and it only does 1 part of what the trait that I suggested does.

Manuhell.2759:

Magnetic shield also works as projectile reflect and AoE knockback.
Big Ol’ Bomb, AoE Launch & damage (and it would be difficult to time it with an effect you aren’t actually controlling).
Throw Mine knockbacks and removes a boon.
Rocket Boots is an escape mechanism.
The turrets, well, work as turrets.
And so on.
Being blast finishers isn’t their main use, it is an added bonus.
And since you don’t even control when you’ll have that water field, you would probably waste their other effects.

One thing the Engie is good at is multi-tasking. Whilst knocking people back, you could be stacking might or blasting into a water field. Yea, you can’t control activation of the trait but when it does show up, it would be smart to take advantage of it.

Manuhell.2759:

Except you have no control regarding its activation and the enemy can easily waste it at the beginning of the fight. And then burst you down.
Compare with Vigorous Shouts, that works per every shout casted, whenever the user decides to use a shout, without any cooldown with the trait itself. And thanks to some runes they can heal a condition as well.

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But the proposed trait is doing what Vigourous Shouts + 1 shout with Soldier runes would do. On top of giving you the ability to keep healing by blasting into the water field. And let’s not forget that the Engi is not the only person with blast finishers.

Autodefence Bomb Dispenser. Doesn’t even do you the courtesy of breaking stun, just drops a smokebomb when you get CCed and yet it’s a GM trait and it’s not a very build defining trait either. Now compare that to the trait change I suggested, which does 3 things, AoE condi cleans, AoE heal and Water Field for more AoE heals.

Even if it were a Master trait, I think it would still be a better trait than what we have now.