Guild Wars 2

jportell.2197:

Then go Pvp somewhere else where you will find a class that you hate. The majority of the community ( the 99% of players that NEVER post here) have no issue with it and they just ask for advice and not whine. The point of mesmers is not to be annoying inherently but to deceive and confuse… If that annoys you then it is your problems and not the mesmers.

I will pvp where ever i want, you did not buy my copy of the game and you dont get to tell me what to do or where to go. F… you and f… mesmers too.

Khyras.8021:

jportell.2197:

Then go Pvp somewhere else where you will find a class that you hate. The majority of the community ( the 99% of players that NEVER post here) have no issue with it and they just ask for advice and not whine. The point of mesmers is not to be annoying inherently but to deceive and confuse… If that annoys you then it is your problems and not the mesmers.

I will pvp where ever i want, you did not buy my copy of the game and you dont get to tell me what to do or where to go. F… you and f… mesmers too.

You clearly hate this game so much. I actually love this game and love learning class mechanics from other classes not by playing the classes but fighting them and identifying patterns.

jportell.2197:

Which is the POINT of fighting mesmers! They aren’t supposed to be easy they are supposed to confuse you and distract you. Fighting d/d ele’s is REALLY annoying for me! But do I completely give up and say OH NERF NERF NERF! This isn’t fair because it “annoyed me” NO! I figure out how they rotate their attunement swaps. I learned that their earth attacks cause ALOT of bleeding. I know the best time to burst into them is right AFTER they switch from water. Fighting Necro’s is SUPER annoying for me because they can slap conditions on faster than I can rip them off. It may not be an L2P issue in your eyes in which case it is something else entirely which is learn how to take when you lose and try to figure out what you can do differently.

Ok, so lets put this way:
- Mesmers are fine and ppl who have difficult with him are playing wrong and have to l2p
- Ppl dont have problem with an specific mesmer, but with mesmers generally
So its easier believe that all the ppl who fight mesmers are bad than the prof have something wrong and the majority of mesmers are good, since they learned to play and for this they can faceroll the others? Considering that is one the most popular prof (probably the 2nd).

And about the annoying, ill believe you really hadnt read it, so ill make it clearer:
What youre saying is not be annoying. One thing is a tricky prof that bother you, like some CC spec, or making pressure like a condition spec. Other is a prof that doesnt demand the same skill from the others, while i need to play really better agaisnt them to have a chance to win. The skill needed to kill a good mesmer is visibly higher than the skill to kill a warrior or a guardian for example. This is not annoyance. If you believe in it, you are telling me that have some prof that its harder to defeat than others even going to a defensive spec or considering the playerskill. Wheres the balance in it?

Umm . Dude, i kill good mesmers all the time. And if your a ranger a mesmer is joke to kill or least force to run.
Ele should also win 1on1 vs mesmer nearly all the time.

jportell.2197:

Khyras.8021:

jportell.2197:

Then go Pvp somewhere else where you will find a class that you hate. The majority of the community ( the 99% of players that NEVER post here) have no issue with it and they just ask for advice and not whine. The point of mesmers is not to be annoying inherently but to deceive and confuse… If that annoys you then it is your problems and not the mesmers.

I will pvp where ever i want, you did not buy my copy of the game and you dont get to tell me what to do or where to go. F… you and f… mesmers too.

You clearly hate this game so much. I actually love this game and love learning class mechanics from other classes not by playing the classes but fighting them and identifying patterns.

Unless you play each profession for an extended period of time…you will never be able to fully grasp their weaknesses, I’m at fault also that’s why I’ll keep playing the mesmer for few months.
I can’t blame mesmer players telling others to learn to play, I do the same thing with people complaining about eles, never seen a profession in a game with more obvious animations than an ele, if you get by churning earth+lightning flash…..whoever you may be ,uninstall..now, same thing getting hit by rtl+updraft.
Anyway in the end once you play a profession for a certain amount of time..fightning them become far too easy

daydream.2938:

Umm . Dude, i kill good mesmers all the time. And if your a ranger a mesmer is joke to kill or least force to run.
Ele should also win 1on1 vs mesmer nearly all the time.

A mesmer who knows where the interrupt button is…won’t lose easily( if at all) against an ele, if I can interrupt an ele healing 24/7 with a 1.5s daze skill animation ( comet), I believe a mesmer can interrupt an ele with zero effort using all its daze skills which take 1/2 time animation…but again we’re talking about decent mesmers

daydream.2938:

Umm . Dude, i kill good mesmers all the time. And if your a ranger a mesmer is joke to kill or least force to run.
Ele should also win 1on1 vs mesmer nearly all the time.

Give this dude a medal, he kills good mesmers ALL the time.He also thinks that a mesmer is joke to kill for a ranger ( that means any ranger build, mind you) and that ele should win 1on1 vs mesmer nearly all the time. How amazing is that.
What we see here is perfect example of an in-depth analysis of a mesmer class, backed by undisputable arguments, very common to this forum i might add /golfclap,
sarcasm off*.

Arheundel.6451:

daydream.2938:

Umm . Dude, i kill good mesmers all the time. And if your a ranger a mesmer is joke to kill or least force to run.
Ele should also win 1on1 vs mesmer nearly all the time.

A mesmer who knows where the interrupt button is…won’t lose easily( if at all) against an ele, if I can interrupt an ele healing 24/7 with a 1.5s daze skill animation ( comet), I believe a mesmer can interrupt an ele with zero effort using all its daze skills which take 1/2 time animation…but again we’re talking about decent mesmers

How do you interrupt ’em during Armor of earth mistform etc ? o_o

Royce.6835:

kostbabis.8791:

^yeah..Anet what are you doing??clones seriously?
Quick change every class core mechanic to a stupid burst skill that builds up with some kind of energy.Then give them a big sword to swing to each other and see the interesting gameplay that develops afterwards ..
hehe :P

Every other game, even guild wars 1, managed to create classes without clones or excess number of “pets” and were very successful.

Thing is, they tried to create something fun and innovative and didn’t realize that something fun for pve could be terribly terribly wrong for pvp

IWAY
AoTL
SWAY
Can’t remember the hexway that used jagged horrors.

Those are just of the few builds in GW1 that used many pets/summons.

Darnis.4056:

Arheundel.6451:

daydream.2938:

Umm . Dude, i kill good mesmers all the time. And if your a ranger a mesmer is joke to kill or least force to run.
Ele should also win 1on1 vs mesmer nearly all the time.

A mesmer who knows where the interrupt button is…won’t lose easily( if at all) against an ele, if I can interrupt an ele healing 24/7 with a 1.5s daze skill animation ( comet), I believe a mesmer can interrupt an ele with zero effort using all its daze skills which take 1/2 time animation…but again we’re talking about decent mesmers

How do you interrupt ’em during Armor of earth mistform etc ? o_o

Is this a trolling attempt?

Arheundel.6451:

jportell.2197:

Khyras.8021:

jportell.2197:

Then go Pvp somewhere else where you will find a class that you hate. The majority of the community ( the 99% of players that NEVER post here) have no issue with it and they just ask for advice and not whine. The point of mesmers is not to be annoying inherently but to deceive and confuse… If that annoys you then it is your problems and not the mesmers.

I will pvp where ever i want, you did not buy my copy of the game and you dont get to tell me what to do or where to go. F… you and f… mesmers too.

You clearly hate this game so much. I actually love this game and love learning class mechanics from other classes not by playing the classes but fighting them and identifying patterns.

Unless you play each profession for an extended period of time…you will never be able to fully grasp their weaknesses, I’m at fault also that’s why I’ll keep playing the mesmer for few months.
I can’t blame mesmer players telling others to learn to play, I do the same thing with people complaining about eles, never seen a profession in a game with more obvious animations than an ele, if you get by churning earth+lightning flash…..whoever you may be ,uninstall..now, same thing getting hit by rtl+updraft.
Anyway in the end once you play a profession for a certain amount of time..fightning them become far too easy

Well I like the learning from fighting and it has worked well for me. In PvP d/d ele’s aren’t bad just take some getting used to in WvW its OMGERED! I seriously don’t know if it is me or what but why are d/d ele’s so much harder to kill in WvW? And the only reason I say l2p is that there obvious tells to fighting mesmers such as the lack of an off hand weapon in a clone (HUGE GIVE AWAY!) When you are getting attacked look at your health! if the attack isn’t doing any damage guess what?! ITS THE CLONES attacking. Clone’s will not have sigil’s, buffs, signets or a title like “combat healer” or so on. All that are dead give aways and any player with half a brain should figure out how to notice. Not whine and qq.

Schnitter.9857:

jportell.2197:

Which is the POINT of fighting mesmers! They aren’t supposed to be easy they are supposed to confuse you and distract you. Fighting d/d ele’s is REALLY annoying for me! But do I completely give up and say OH NERF NERF NERF! This isn’t fair because it “annoyed me” NO! I figure out how they rotate their attunement swaps. I learned that their earth attacks cause ALOT of bleeding. I know the best time to burst into them is right AFTER they switch from water. Fighting Necro’s is SUPER annoying for me because they can slap conditions on faster than I can rip them off. It may not be an L2P issue in your eyes in which case it is something else entirely which is learn how to take when you lose and try to figure out what you can do differently.

Ok, so lets put this way:
- Mesmers are fine and ppl who have difficult with him are playing wrong and have to l2p
- Ppl dont have problem with an specific mesmer, but with mesmers generally
So its easier believe that all the ppl who fight mesmers are bad than the prof have something wrong and the majority of mesmers are good, since they learned to play and for this they can faceroll the others? Considering that is one the most popular prof (probably the 2nd).

And about the annoying, ill believe you really hadnt read it, so ill make it clearer:
What youre saying is not be annoying. One thing is a tricky prof that bother you, like some CC spec, or making pressure like a condition spec. Other is a prof that doesnt demand the same skill from the others, while i need to play really better agaisnt them to have a chance to win. The skill needed to kill a good mesmer is visibly higher than the skill to kill a warrior or a guardian for example. This is not annoyance. If you believe in it, you are telling me that have some prof that its harder to defeat than others even going to a defensive spec or considering the playerskill. Wheres the balance in it?

Guardian easier to kill than a Mesmer? ROFL ROFL ROFL. Way harder to kill than a Mesmer. But hey maybe that’s because I know how Mesmer works.

jportell.2197:

Schnitter.9857:

jportell.2197:

Which is the POINT of fighting mesmers! They aren’t supposed to be easy they are supposed to confuse you and distract you. Fighting d/d ele’s is REALLY annoying for me! But do I completely give up and say OH NERF NERF NERF! This isn’t fair because it “annoyed me” NO! I figure out how they rotate their attunement swaps. I learned that their earth attacks cause ALOT of bleeding. I know the best time to burst into them is right AFTER they switch from water. Fighting Necro’s is SUPER annoying for me because they can slap conditions on faster than I can rip them off. It may not be an L2P issue in your eyes in which case it is something else entirely which is learn how to take when you lose and try to figure out what you can do differently.

Ok, so lets put this way:
- Mesmers are fine and ppl who have difficult with him are playing wrong and have to l2p
- Ppl dont have problem with an specific mesmer, but with mesmers generally
So its easier believe that all the ppl who fight mesmers are bad than the prof have something wrong and the majority of mesmers are good, since they learned to play and for this they can faceroll the others? Considering that is one the most popular prof (probably the 2nd).

And about the annoying, ill believe you really hadnt read it, so ill make it clearer:
What youre saying is not be annoying. One thing is a tricky prof that bother you, like some CC spec, or making pressure like a condition spec. Other is a prof that doesnt demand the same skill from the others, while i need to play really better agaisnt them to have a chance to win. The skill needed to kill a good mesmer is visibly higher than the skill to kill a warrior or a guardian for example. This is not annoyance. If you believe in it, you are telling me that have some prof that its harder to defeat than others even going to a defensive spec or considering the playerskill. Wheres the balance in it?

Guardian easier to kill than a Mesmer? ROFL ROFL ROFL. Way harder to kill than a Mesmer. But hey maybe that’s because I know how Mesmer works.

Yes you are an amazing player, you referenced yourself as such few dozens times in this thread so that, along with your extensive use of L2P phrase leaves no place for a doubt i think. All we need now is Jonathan Sharp post confirming this fact, just in case there are still some people out there who dare to question your greatness /golfclap,sarcasm off*.

jportell.2197:

Oh wow… well here I will post this again seeing as people still can’t figure out how ANet wants this class to perform.

Jonathan Sharp
•Mesmers rely on illusions in order to accomplish their goals. They need illusions to accomplish some of their highest damage and control, and without the illusions, they become fairly fragile. They can deal with enemy boons better than most classes, but enemy conditions can often be a problem. They share some of the stealth and mobility that the Thief enjoys, but suffer from a low health pool if you get past all their tricks.

And he’s right enemy conditions ARE A PROBLEM FOR US. We have 3 ways to handle conditions
Arcane thievery Send 3 conditions to opponent get 3 boons. Meh Short range and might work might not

Null field: A glamour field that removes all conditions from allies and all boons from enemies (1 condition/boon per pulse if we can stay in it long enough we get 6 seconds IF!)

Mantra of resolve: total of 4 conditions but if it gets used up mantra’s have our longest cast times.

Website Description
Mesmers are magical duelists who wield deception as a weapon. Using powerful illusions, clones, and phantasmal magic to confuse and distract their foes, mesmers make sure every fight is balanced in their favor and their opponents can’t believe their eyes

So stop with the outrageous demands for mesmers to STILL get nerfed or lose clones or something. It is L2P. I have plenty of advice and other mesmers do as well!

You made this same argument a few weeks ago when you were lamenting the plight of the poor mesmer and it appears it’s yet again time to remind you of phantasmal disenchanter, which you swear never works, butttttt I tested last week and it’s amazing. A phantasm that gets rid of conditions on you and boons on enemies on a 20 sec CD. For my utilities on my test mesmer I ran PD, Null Field and Blink for the stun break. Can’t say condition damage was ever a problem, though I suppose I should say I ran a phantasm build, so that may affect it somehow, can’t say for sure. Condition removal is there in spades.

point is, mesmer needs more viable builds. everyone is facerolling shatter because they can.

Choops.3710:

jportell.2197:

Oh wow… well here I will post this again seeing as people still can’t figure out how ANet wants this class to perform.

Jonathan Sharp
•Mesmers rely on illusions in order to accomplish their goals. They need illusions to accomplish some of their highest damage and control, and without the illusions, they become fairly fragile. They can deal with enemy boons better than most classes, but enemy conditions can often be a problem. They share some of the stealth and mobility that the Thief enjoys, but suffer from a low health pool if you get past all their tricks.

And he’s right enemy conditions ARE A PROBLEM FOR US. We have 3 ways to handle conditions
Arcane thievery Send 3 conditions to opponent get 3 boons. Meh Short range and might work might not

Null field: A glamour field that removes all conditions from allies and all boons from enemies (1 condition/boon per pulse if we can stay in it long enough we get 6 seconds IF!)

Mantra of resolve: total of 4 conditions but if it gets used up mantra’s have our longest cast times.

Website Description
Mesmers are magical duelists who wield deception as a weapon. Using powerful illusions, clones, and phantasmal magic to confuse and distract their foes, mesmers make sure every fight is balanced in their favor and their opponents can’t believe their eyes

So stop with the outrageous demands for mesmers to STILL get nerfed or lose clones or something. It is L2P. I have plenty of advice and other mesmers do as well!

You made this same argument a few weeks ago when you were lamenting the plight of the poor mesmer and it appears it’s yet again time to remind you of phantasmal disenchanter, which you swear never works, butttttt I tested last week and it’s amazing. A phantasm that gets rid of conditions on you and boons on enemies on a 20 sec CD. For my utilities on my test mesmer I ran PD, Null Field and Blink for the stun break. Can’t say condition damage was ever a problem, though I suppose I should say I ran a phantasm build, so that may affect it somehow, can’t say for sure. Condition removal is there in spades.

Lmao..same thing can be said for warriors which appears not to have enough condition removals

Arheundel.6451 which high level Ele’s are you actually killing as a mesmer?…

If you’re talking about pugstomping.. then … I mean.. I don’t even need to daze them.. I could just kill them in two rotations..

nerva.7940:

point is, mesmer needs more viable builds. everyone is facerolling shatter because they can.

No, point is mesmer is cheap, annoying, badly designed fun killing class no matter what build they have.

Over 100 posts. Can we let this die already?

A mesmer not stacking invis is not hard to track, for the most part you can keep pressing tab and you’ll find em. It really is a skill issue if your having trouble finding the real one.

Tittle, Map complete star, glory boosters, and offhand weapon are all not present on clones.

Most builds you’ll be getting lost in are running at least 20 into dueling meaning they are likely to have vigor up a lot of the time.

if they are not running illusion signet you can prob stomp their clones without wasting any burst or spike.

people are actually more spoiled with assistance for fighting a mesmer than they know.
like a thief with over all less burst and less cloak but with half-arsed clones to make up for it xD. You do realize that once you figure it out and a mesmers burst is gone they are worth as much as a thief without cloak (atleast shatter anyways)

This QQ war is pretty dumb, was good for a laugh 50 posts ago. It was started by a guy who described shatter as “Melee 1h sword stunning exploding clone mesmers.” Clearly this person had no understanding of what he was fighting and just experienced “WHYYY CAN’T I MOVE?” BOOM Dead rofl stomped and would be fine if instead of asking how to fight it he came with “I CAN’T WIN! so suggestions how we can change this all together?” Then was reinforced by someone claiming mes is OP based on naruto logic… Good laughs all around.

Ayestes came up with solutions to help, and just more QQing. I hate saying it’s a l2p issue implying people are just outright bad, but really that’s what it’s gotten to.

I say all who main mesmers boycott this thread and no longer entertain this.

and for those who feel the need to post because they believe mesmer is truly OP:
Do not post here again unless you are R25+, Have at least 5 qualifying points, and plays at least 3 characters in sPvP that they run tournies with. <- Everyone who doesn’t have this GTFO your opinion on balance doesn’t matter.

FYI the criteria I pointed out is pretty kitten low that anyone with a base amount of skill should have, and can get fairly fast enough to still be considered new.

But of course no one is going to listen and just continue to fight this, just like Ayestes this is going to fall on deaf ears or I’ll get flamed for it. All I can say is:

…L2P…

^
A Mesmer telling people to L2P and get some skill when your class takes the least skill out of all classes. Come back when you’re a good Warrior, Ranger, Engi (Yes they definitely take skill now), or Thief. Chances are you can’t play a class that takes skill and is all words.

Nier.2478:

^
A Mesmer telling people to L2P and get some skill when your class takes the least skill out of all classes. Come back when you’re a good Warrior, Ranger, Engi (Yes they definitely take skill now), or Thief. Chances are you can’t play a class that takes skill and is all words.

I play Warrior, Mesmer, and Thief all GC in tournaments and play around with Ele and Ranger, haven’t really touched engi, or necro to be honest. but for the most part Mesmers are not a problem for me.

But if we’re gonna talk skill I actually find it harder to use a mesmer when built shatter. (I will agree not much skill to phantasm though. 3 button win Woo~)

so yeah pretty sure it’s a L2P issue.

You don’t know how hard other classes are to play compared to Mesmers. What you sound like is a spoiled kid who got spoon-fed up to 40 years.

So if you think Mesmers don’t need to get toned down or classes need to be buffed to Mesmer efficiency then you’re really simple-minded.

This isn’t a MOBA where character choice is an issue. This is a potential E-sport with only 8 characters to choose from, and if you honestly think Mesmers are fine right now then its time to grow up and stop being spoiled. And just understand that your character needs to get nerfed or characters need to get buffed to where Mesmers are.

Nier.2478:

You don’t know how hard other classes are to play compared to Mesmers. What you sound like is a spoiled kid who got spoon-fed up to 40 years.

So if you think Mesmers don’t need to get toned down or classes need to be buffed to Mesmer efficiency then you’re really simple-minded.

This isn’t a MOBA where character choice is an issue. This is a potential E-sport with only 8 characters to choose from, and if you honestly think Mesmers are fine right now then its time to grow up and stop being spoiled. And just understand that your character needs to get nerfed or characters need to get buffed to where Mesmers are.

LOLOLOL k w/e you say bro. I can see a troll trying to get me to post after I said not to, good job. and if it’s not a troll I’ll chill with the other warriors and thieves who have no problems with mesmers. You go continue to be frustrated every time you see one in hot join.

Don’t go smashing your keyboard k?

Not responding here anymore no point wasting my time.

This thread sounds like a hate group. Time to convert it into a support group!

Everyone isn’t the same. There are certain things that come easier to some than to others. If you put it the other way about, some people may require a lot more effort to learn certain things than others.

What I feel is that the people posting here crying about mesmers, after the phase when it was cool to hate mesmers is over, just seem to have a harder time learning how to deal with mesmers. It would be a lot better if you admit this and take some time playing a mesmer or practising with a friendly mesmer rather than comforting each other by insulting ANet or the mechanics of the mesmer class which I believe is a breath of fresh air.

Also before I get accused, I haven’t touched my mesmer in 2 months.

Daishi.6027:

Over 100 posts. Can we let this die already?

A mesmer not stacking invis is not hard to track, for the most part you can keep pressing tab and you’ll find em. It really is a skill issue if your having trouble finding the real one.

Tittle, Map complete star, glory boosters, and offhand weapon are all not present on clones.

Most builds you’ll be getting lost in are running at least 20 into dueling meaning they are likely to have vigor up a lot of the time.

if they are not running illusion signet you can prob stomp their clones without wasting any burst or spike.

people are actually more spoiled with assistance for fighting a mesmer than they know.
like a thief with over all less burst and less cloak but with half-arsed clones to make up for it xD. You do realize that once you figure it out and a mesmers burst is gone they are worth as much as a thief without cloak (atleast shatter anyways)

This QQ war is pretty dumb, was good for a laugh 50 posts ago. It was started by a guy who described shatter as “Melee 1h sword stunning exploding clone mesmers.” Clearly this person had no understanding of what he was fighting and just experienced “WHYYY CAN’T I MOVE?” BOOM Dead rofl stomped and would be fine if instead of asking how to fight it he came with “I CAN’T WIN! so suggestions how we can change this all together?” Then was reinforced by someone claiming mes is OP based on naruto logic… Good laughs all around.

Ayestes came up with solutions to help, and just more QQing. I hate saying it’s a l2p issue implying people are just outright bad, but really that’s what it’s gotten to.

I say all who main mesmers boycott this thread and no longer entertain this.

and for those who feel the need to post because they believe mesmer is truly OP:
Do not post here again unless you are R25+, Have at least 5 qualifying points, and plays at least 3 characters in sPvP that they run tournies with. <- Everyone who doesn’t have this GTFO your opinion on balance doesn’t matter.

FYI the criteria I pointed out is pretty kitten low that anyone with a base amount of skill should have, and can get fairly fast enough to still be considered new.

But of course no one is going to listen and just continue to fight this, just like Ayestes this is going to fall on deaf ears or I’ll get flamed for it. All I can say is:

…L2P…

“Can we let this die already” then proceeds to type wall of text ridden with rant and gtfo – l2p phrases.Typical mesmer player, shallow and annoying as the class he plays.

Adding targetable objects to the battlefield = bad PvP design. Doesn’t matter what the class is. Mesmer clones, necro pets, engi supply drop and turret. GTFO. You turn PvP into a clusterkitten and wonder why no one likes your PvP.

Stop giving classes advantages that have nothing to do with PvP. Pet classes are such an idiotic idea for PvP. Yay I get to tab target 12 times or click on this guy in between 12 other moving targets… Meanwhile he gets to pres… TAB.

You need to get more player vs player into your pvp and less players vs random kitten running around the battlefield controlled by AI. This game is currently wasted potential. Nothing more. The engine is awesome… What it’s being utilized for is such a waste.

Long story short to whoever designed these classes.

Yer dumb.

targeting through all the clones is indeed bad design, and often i lose track of my cursor. engie turrets can be just as bad.

Wreckdum.8367:

Adding targetable objects to the battlefield = bad PvP design. Doesn’t matter what the class is. Mesmer clones, necro pets, engi supply drop and turret. GTFO. You turn PvP into a clusterkitten and wonder why no one likes your PvP.

Stop giving classes advantages that have nothing to do with PvP. Pet classes are such an idiotic idea for PvP. Yay I get to tab target 12 times or click on this guy in between 12 other moving targets… Meanwhile he gets to pres… TAB.

You need to get more player vs player into your pvp and less players vs random kitten running around the battlefield controlled by AI. This game is currently wasted potential. Nothing more. The engine is awesome… What it’s being utilized for is such a waste.

Long story short to whoever designed these classes.

Yer dumb.

I like the pvp. Also i dont have trouble finding the real messy. Vigor is a super giveaway.
=)
Also, this thread has become anger, and attacks rather than analysis. Maybe we should make a thread on how to help beat mesmers, its honestly not hard once u learn what to do.

Nope because then you will be accused as just another lazy Mesmer that can’t play a class that takes “skill” and you are just going to be so spoiled by this low skill cap class. yeah lets all run thieves that’s a lot of skill! Or lets run warriors with our GS SOOOO MUCH skill.

jportell.2197:

Nope because then you will be accused as just another lazy Mesmer that can’t play a class that takes “skill” and you are just going to be so spoiled by this low skill cap class. yeah lets all run thieves that’s a lot of skill! Or lets run warriors with our GS SOOOO MUCH skill.

Drop your mesmer and pick up a warrior and see how much better you do. Go ahead, I’ll wait.

No. And before you start with the cheap shots (I know you are good at them). Understand that a warrior archetype class never appealed to me in any game I have played. So I am not going to drop a class I enjoy to start playing one to prove a point to some online tough guy. Also I’ll have you know that my second favorite class after Mesmer is Engi. I find both classes a unique and challenging play experience. And I have degraded my comments to the one above because when I try to give constructive advice or advice from fighting a certain class as a Mesmer or giving people advice on how to fight mesmers it is met with nothing but back lash from people such as yourself. I don’t PvP much and the main reason I post here is because Anet obviously listens to the person that whines the most so I am trying to do something for my class that seems to be the flavor of the month for qq’s every month. It’s just ridiculous. And to the OP with the whole targeting nightmare. Okay you have to press tab more than once. Fighting other players is easier if you have a cool mind and maintain battlefield awareness. I find fighting engi’s to be chaotic… Not annoying but chaotic to be sure especially because you never really know what they are going to throw at you next. But honestly I just want to play the game and have fun. You guys have fun qqing about the next flavor of the month OP class. I hear kittening about d/d ele’s is in. have fun with that!

omfg….

I’ve tried writing up some kind of argument to side with mesmers, cause I haven’t really had many issues with them myself, but I simply can’t do it.

I think of something to say then I realize “nope, mesmers can do that too” or “that’s actually not an issue for them” or even “actually no, a good mesmer COULD infact beat that class.” (well besides the OP eles ofc, with all their burst, aoe to kill clones, multiple full heals, and constant condition removal :P).

So I give up, I can’t really defend mesmers, whether it be cause I refuse to play one myself or just cause they can’t be properly defended, idk….. :/

jportell.2197:

Or lets run warriors with our GS SOOOO MUCH skill.

And I didn’t realize people were still newbish enough to be caught by the 100 blades spec on a regular basis, thought we’d all realized how not all that great 100 blades was by now lol guess I was wrong, there are still THOSE people out there…

the fact that i never ever has seen a teaching vid how to fight against mesmer builds with explanations and such except that from jumper or portell? dont remeber anymore.. was “how to as backstab against mesmer shatter”, shows me that all the l2p arguments are all bullkitten… complete bullkitten.

i mean common. if we talk to lower the entry and learning curve -> answer: no is not needed. just better explanation… but jumping the l2p talker in the gap and deliver explanation how to avoid? no.

its always the same.. play that class and learn and all qq is just from noobs.. good community.. negate the possibility of some issues others has because 10%-20% of “hardcore/tpvp” has no issues or just use the issues as advantage.

its the same with bugs ingame.. how often i has read something about a bug and the most common answer “here its all fine.. good game, no bugs”

Khyras.8021:

nerva.7940:

point is, mesmer needs more viable builds. everyone is facerolling shatter because they can.

No, point is mesmer is cheap, annoying, badly designed fun killing class no matter what build they have.

hmm.. just because you play ranger? (probably) we dont have to dumb down every other class to pew pew 1 spam or traps and circle around them.Sorry for being mean but this is getting out of hand..you show pure hate to some classes which is really weird,like they stole your puppy and you are set to extinguish them..
For me mesm ,eles ,engineers and even some thief bulds have better and more interesting playstyles than every iother class..for you they are just annoying.Nothing we can do about it!
Oh and engie is up now wait for a buff and you ll soon hate him as well witht the control the class offers atm..

kostbabis.8791:

Khyras.8021:

nerva.7940:

point is, mesmer needs more viable builds. everyone is facerolling shatter because they can.

No, point is mesmer is cheap, annoying, badly designed fun killing class no matter what build they have.

hmm.. just because you play ranger? (probably) we dont have to dumb down every other class to pew pew 1 spam or traps and circle around them.Sorry for being mean but this is getting out of hand..you show pure hate to some classes which is really weird,like they stole your puppy and you are set to extinguish them..
For me mesm ,eles ,engineers and even some thief bulds have better and more interesting playstyles than every iother class..for you they are just annoying.Nothing we can do about it!
Oh and engie is up now wait for a buff and you ll soon hate him as well witht the control the class offers atm..

Auto attack on scepter for mesmers spams (literally) clones to fight for you and they spawn on target. It doesnt get any dumber than that, and lol for ranger hate.

jportell.2197:

No. And before you start with the cheap shots (I know you are good at them). Understand that a warrior archetype class never appealed to me in any game I have played. So I am not going to drop a class I enjoy to start playing one to prove a point to some online tough guy. Also I’ll have you know that my second favorite class after Mesmer is Engi. I find both classes a unique and challenging play experience. And I have degraded my comments to the one above because when I try to give constructive advice or advice from fighting a certain class as a Mesmer or giving people advice on how to fight mesmers it is met with nothing but back lash from people such as yourself. I don’t PvP much and the main reason I post here is because Anet obviously listens to the person that whines the most so I am trying to do something for my class that seems to be the flavor of the month for qq’s every month. It’s just ridiculous. And to the OP with the whole targeting nightmare. Okay you have to press tab more than once. Fighting other players is easier if you have a cool mind and maintain battlefield awareness. I find fighting engi’s to be chaotic… Not annoying but chaotic to be sure especially because you never really know what they are going to throw at you next. But honestly I just want to play the game and have fun. You guys have fun qqing about the next flavor of the month OP class. I hear kittening about d/d ele’s is in. have fun with that!

lol, I don’t really get how I’m cheap shotting you. I just think you’re being blind to how many options your profession has. I’ve run into you in a few different threads and you consistently post like mesmers are in this terrible state and if any balancing changes are made that might make your prof of choice the slightest bit less effective, mesmers as we know them will cease to exist. Your shot at GS Warriors was laughable because playing one and being able to stay alive takes much more skill IMO than running a mesmer. I’m not QQing, but when you make blatantly wrong points about how conditions chew through mesmers, it’s ridiculous and it needs to be pointed out that you’re incorrect. I guess it all comes down to everyone has their own opinion based on their own experiences. I just don’t think your opinion is as valuable as a lot of other people’s in this thread because by your own admission you don’t PvP much, so I can’t help but wonder how can you adequately weigh in on balance issues in PvP?

Conditions do chew through mesmers unless we equip for NOTHING ELSE. If we have phantasmal disenchanter arcane thievery and null field equipped that means we have3 slots dedicateddedicated only to removing conditions phantasmal disenchanter doesn’t cure all conditions per attack. Arcane thievery only does 3 conditions and null field is one condition per pulse. Engis have elixir C which turns all condis too boons guardians can take all allies conditions and then turn them into boons. Arcane thievery USED to steal all boons and transfer all conditions but that was considered OP and got nerfed (shocker). So mesmers have to use ALL utility slots to even match the Condi removal that other classes get with just one slot. Or like rangers where the pet takes a condition from their master every 10 seconds. So yeah compared to MOST classes our Condi removal is a joke.

I find fighting trap rangers , not mesmers the most annoying thing :/

MatyrGustav.6210:

i dont think the mesmer should benefit on an imperfect targeting feature.

Why not? Thief benefit from the Culling issues that STILL havent been fixed…

jportell.2197:

Conditions do chew through mesmers unless we equip for NOTHING ELSE. If we have phantasmal disenchanter arcane thievery and null field equipped that means we have3 slots dedicateddedicated only to removing conditions phantasmal disenchanter doesn’t cure all conditions per attack. Arcane thievery only does 3 conditions and null field is one condition per pulse. Engis have elixir C which turns all condis too boons guardians can take all allies conditions and then turn them into boons. Arcane thievery USED to steal all boons and transfer all conditions but that was considered OP and got nerfed (shocker). So mesmers have to use ALL utility slots to even match the Condi removal that other classes get with just one slot. Or like rangers where the pet takes a condition from their master every 10 seconds. So yeah compared to MOST classes our Condi removal is a joke.

You implied that mesmer’s glaring weakness was conditions, for which you have ample means of removing with the added effect that Null Field and PD also strip boons from enemies. You can have those 2 utilities, still have a stun break and still have great sustained damage, built in invulnerability, plus boon removal and a myriad of other utilities. If you choose to roll without condition removal, then you have no one to blame but yourself when you die to conditions. I play 100 nades with my Engi, when I die to conditions do I go screaming on the forums that engineers have the worst condition removal? No, because that’s a weakness of my build that I’ve accepted and learned to work around. If the tools are there but you don’t utilize them, it’s not a class flaw, it’s a you flaw.

Ayestes.1273:

Royce.6835:

Well, essentially, they should be deleted from the game.

If you are going to start a post with this it’s unlikely you are going to get anything you intended once people are laughing and no longer taking your post seriously. I understand your frustration and the like, but to even consider deleting a profession or mechanic from the game as a valid response is just silly.

MatyrGustav.6210:

any Suggestions?

The Mesmer in this case is a Shatter Memser, not really a melee mesmer. It’s unlikely they will stay in melee the entire time. The reason being, they are incredibly squishy when they aren’t pulling off their burst and when they are in their Sword set. This changes a bit when they are with the Staff, but in general there are fantastic set of tips when dealing with them. Keep in mind though that if you are pure melee then the odds aren’t in your favor, but that doesn’t mean you auto-lose.

• Dodge roll into the clones when they shatter. This triggers their explosions. A Shatter mesmer’s damage is mostly in these shatters. Mitigate them and you mitigate the vast majority of what they can do.

• Move away from the Mesmer if possible. Mesmers need you to be close to deal their real damage. Unless they have a Greatsword they have no real way to deal damage in this long range case, and without the Staff they are incredibly weak defensively beyond the trickery. AoE slows in particular can make it very easy to pick off Mesmer stuff.

• Move all the bloody time and learn to recognize the leaping clone. This leaping clone is the very beginning of the burst combo that you are going to be hit with. If you can keep away from it and/or dodge the follow-up then you have fully mitigated the combo. The other way to start the combo is with the Magic Bullet stun, so dodge roll that projectile if possible as well and stun break it if you get caught while having that cooldown up.

• AoE is pretty key in dealing with clones in general. This won’t stop the primary combo of clones if you get caught in the burst cycle, but beyond a Mirror Images burst while you are Immobilized it’s completely feasible to cleave them down. If you do get immobilized, make sure you use whatever invuln options you may or may not have.

• Recognize Distortion. They are invulnerable during Blurred Frenzy and their Distortion Shatter. Don’t waste valuable cooldowns during this period. I’ve seen far too many people try to burst a Mesmer I have targeted with Quickness for example. They are literally invulnerable during their burst combo, keep that in mind.

Best advice in general though, is to go play one. Start with a Phantasm build for a few hours to ease into the profession and then pickup the premier Shatter build once you have adjusted to the profession. Easiest way to learn how to beat something is to play it, and in GW2 it is incredibly easy to do that. If you are too stubborn to learn how to do that, then just watch Mesmer some streams on twitch.tv. Experience and knowledge of what a profession can do and usually does is the vast majority of skill in any MMO. Targeting nightmare is accurate though, they can be pretty frustrating without tons and tons of practice.

It’s rather sad when someone gives you gold like this and you do nothing but ignore/nitpick minor details, out of context. Well said Ayestes, I approve of this advice.

Same thing about the mesmer builds that everyone gripes and moans about. The shatter heavy builds usually run blink decoy mirror images with a 20/20/0/0/30 build. This build can be destroyed by AOE conditions soooo for instance a grenade engineer. A trap ranger, d/d ele, well necro. These builds will destroy the typical shatter heavy mesmer. So maybe it isn’t the glaring weakness in mesmer class but it is the glaring weakness in this build which is the most griped about build mesmers have. So it is a word of ADVICE from the mesmer community to keep from suffering more nerfs that we generally don’t run with condition removal. And as stated before PD doesn’t remove (provided the mesmer and the enemy are with in required range) all condis at once and null field only does one removal per pulse. This is blatantly weaker than say engineers elixir C which only takes one utility slot and removes all conditions and is on a shorter cooldown than null field or arcane thievery (longer than PD but few mesmers will agree with you on the efficacy of PD) and longer than mantra of resolve which can cure a total 4 conditions then is put on a 20 second cooldown with a nearly 4 second cast time. So yes I don’t care how you try to put it when it comes to condition removal mesmers are generally weaker than other classes and shatter mesmers are weakest of all because that is a consequence of their build. A thieves death blossom with the insane amount of bleeds or an earth attuned ele will eat a shatter mesmer alive if they try and don’t just freak OMG THEIRS SO MANY OF THEM!

Ayestes.1273:

Royce.6835:

Well, essentially, they should be deleted from the game.

If you are going to start a post with this it’s unlikely you are going to get anything you intended once people are laughing and no longer taking your post seriously. I understand your frustration and the like, but to even consider deleting a profession or mechanic from the game as a valid response is just silly.

MatyrGustav.6210:

any Suggestions?

The Mesmer in this case is a Shatter Memser, not really a melee mesmer. It’s unlikely they will stay in melee the entire time. The reason being, they are incredibly squishy when they aren’t pulling off their burst and when they are in their Sword set. This changes a bit when they are with the Staff, but in general there are fantastic set of tips when dealing with them. Keep in mind though that if you are pure melee then the odds aren’t in your favor, but that doesn’t mean you auto-lose.

• Dodge roll into the clones when they shatter. This triggers their explosions. A Shatter mesmer’s damage is mostly in these shatters. Mitigate them and you mitigate the vast majority of what they can do.

• Move away from the Mesmer if possible. Mesmers need you to be close to deal their real damage. Unless they have a Greatsword they have no real way to deal damage in this long range case, and without the Staff they are incredibly weak defensively beyond the trickery. AoE slows in particular can make it very easy to pick off Mesmer stuff.

• Move all the bloody time and learn to recognize the leaping clone. This leaping clone is the very beginning of the burst combo that you are going to be hit with. If you can keep away from it and/or dodge the follow-up then you have fully mitigated the combo. The other way to start the combo is with the Magic Bullet stun, so dodge roll that projectile if possible as well and stun break it if you get caught while having that cooldown up.

• AoE is pretty key in dealing with clones in general. This won’t stop the primary combo of clones if you get caught in the burst cycle, but beyond a Mirror Images burst while you are Immobilized it’s completely feasible to cleave them down. If you do get immobilized, make sure you use whatever invuln options you may or may not have.

• Recognize Distortion. They are invulnerable during Blurred Frenzy and their Distortion Shatter. Don’t waste valuable cooldowns during this period. I’ve seen far too many people try to burst a Mesmer I have targeted with Quickness for example. They are literally invulnerable during their burst combo, keep that in mind.

Best advice in general though, is to go play one. Start with a Phantasm build for a few hours to ease into the profession and then pickup the premier Shatter build once you have adjusted to the profession. Easiest way to learn how to beat something is to play it, and in GW2 it is incredibly easy to do that. If you are too stubborn to learn how to do that, then just watch Mesmer some streams on twitch.tv. Experience and knowledge of what a profession can do and usually does is the vast majority of skill in any MMO. Targeting nightmare is accurate though, they can be pretty frustrating without tons and tons of practice.

Some great tips – but be careful dont full into the “everyone is a shatterspec” idea. I personally only shatter when i need to, Against Thiefs its great for the Burst as they take damage from the Confuse and from the retaliation i give them.

I like the double shatter as well – Having 3 up and then using the Confuse one, then summoning another 3 and using Mind Wreck which also give Confusion. Though this is VERY high risk as it can put all your clones and everything on cool down if not timed right.

I find it best (when you know which is the real one) is to obviously stun them first and then burst before they can get Distortion or anything off, unfortunately its rare for people to use that.

Another as you said is the Decoy into Dodge its funny how many times people will fall for that. You see them and charge towards then, Use Dodge and then Decoy into another dodge creating 3 clones and being in stealth for a few seconds, pop the F2 and then when you come out of stealth you should have a dodge option up again, pop MI and you are good to go for a few attacks, they come close and they take 4 hits from Shattering (3 clones/phantoms + 1 from shatter effect on me)

You’re absolutely right. Nerf engineer condi removal, so OP Buff mes pls

No don’t nerf engi condi removal because that is one thing that helps make engis good. Yes you deal with conditions better than mesmers but that is a weak point of a Mesmer that people just for some reason REFUSE to exploit.

jportell.2197:

No don’t nerf engi condi removal because that is one thing that helps make engis good. Yes you deal with conditions better than mesmers but that is a weak point of a Mesmer that people just for some reason REFUSE to exploit.

I think its GOOD that classes have weak points. Doesnt seem some classes have REAL weaknesses.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

jportell.2197:

No don’t nerf engi condi removal because that is one thing that helps make engis good. Yes you deal with conditions better than mesmers but that is a weak point of a Mesmer that people just for some reason REFUSE to exploit.

I think its GOOD that classes have weak points. Doesnt seem some classes have REAL weaknesses.

If there is one that a shatter Mesmer has a weakness in it is conditions more so than other mesmers… Some bunker mesmers can deal with conditions but it depends on the type of bunker they are.
But mesmers in general can only deal with conditions I’d say better than warriors and MAYBE thieves. But in general it is very limited where as you have elixir c on engi’s and idk how ele’s do it but they always cleanse condi’s

You keep bringing up Elixir C, a self use, 40 second CD skill. Phantasmal Disenchanter is 20 second CD, removes conditions AND boons from the enemy as long it’s alive or until it’s replaced. Null Field is an AoE condition removal/boon strippage on a 45 second CD and 7 second duration. They are completely different in effect, so you’re pretty much comparing apples and oranges.

And null field is an obvious AOE and only removes one condition/boon per pulse and its duration is 7 seconds but because of a bug with ALL Mesmer glamour skills it’s duration is only 3.5 seconds (kinda how portal exit was supposed to be 20 seconds but was only 10). And the phantasmal disenchanter is dependent on the target and the ally being in range. Only bounces to one foe and to 2 allies (may not even be the Mesmer depending on if a teammate is closer) and it attacks every 4.5 seconds as with all phantasms it can be dodged blocked or blinded (really annoying btw). Not to mention it doesn’t cure ALL conditions or remove ALL boons in one attack. If it did mesmers might use it more. So yeah it may be on a 20 sec CD but it is a joke for condition removal as it only spawns near the enemy and no where close to the Mesmer that might actually need it. Elixir C guaranteed to turn all conditions into boons no matter how many you have and it doesn’t have a stupid long cast time and it can’t be blocked blinded or dodged. Arcane thievery has a stupid short range and only does 3 boons and 3 condis on a cooldown longer than elixir C. Mantra of resolve can cure 4 conditions in a row but it is only 2 per cast and the recharge+cast time which can be interrupted are also ridiculous. So yes I am saying it YOU AS AN ENGINEER HAVE BETTER CONDITION REMOVAL THAN MESMERS. We can only hope to match your one skill if we use all of our utility slots for nothing but condition removal. So for those players out there trying to deal with mesmers. Conditions are our BIGGEST weakness.

If it removed ALL conditions and ALL boons in one attack it would be overpowered to an almost Time Warpian level. Having the market cornered on just about everything isn’t enough, you should have it on condition removal too. CAPS FOR ADDED EFFECT.