Guild Wars 2

chuuuuucky.8532:

Only fear i have is…if you add a special mode with seperate maps and maybe a Megaserver lfg or que tool WvW could suffer a lot.
There are enough GvG guilds out there which are roeming the borderlands searching for fights or waiting for the enemy. On smaller servers they make all the difference and on larger server they are often highly invested in organizing guilds, commanders and coverage.
If they have less incentive to go onto the WvW maps because they can instead have one fight after another in GvG this could be really bad for WvW.

This is my only concern and it is only of concern depending how they would implement such a mode. Like i said in general i would love to see such a mode.

After hearing about this thread from some friends I figured I’d come check it out. Granted I am no longer in the GvG/skill group scene any longer and I was never a major contributor to it to begin with, but I don’t think this statement is true at all. I will also preface this by saying that I can’t speak for guilds on lower tier servers who GvG.

Most GvG guilds/skill group guilds don’t PPT. So when they run around in the BLs looking for fights or scrimming other guilds, they aren’t contributing much to WvW score. They’re just taking up map space that could be occupied by people who want to PPT, or defend, or scout, or whatever. Personally I have a lot of respect for GvG guilds/skill groups because they’re shafted so hard, so you’ll never hear me complaining about them not PPTing, but a lot of people DO complain. If two guilds are scrimming above south camp or at the windmill, you’re pretty likely to see someone say, “go to OS” in chat, and pretty much any time you see people at south camp or windmill, it’s because OS is already being occupied. Those people are also some of the same people who will grief the scrim and intentionally get killed to rally people on the other team, or just generally be an annoyance to the two guilds trying to fight. Giving them an instanced area, or some sort of GvG mode specifically for them will take them out of the BLs and give more space for people who actually want to do things that will contribute to WvW score. As someone who’s on Fort Aspenwood where the queues are forever long, I think this would be really beneficial. At least if we have long queues, it’s because the people in the map want to do WvW stuff, not because they’re skill group/GvG guilds who have nowhere else to go and are forced to make the best of the situation they’re given. WvW and GvG are separate entities that seek to accomplish different things, so to me, it makes sense that they should have separate places to do what they want to do.

Sorry if I repeated something someone else already said. This thread is kinda long and I’m lazy so I skimmed through a lot of it.

Thank you for reopening this thread.

+ all of[EP]’s support here.

As someone who has been leading a guild since pre-release, I can not argue with anything in the original post. These are observable facts which have led to very close gaming communities being built from larger scale PvP. I’ve likely made a few life-long friends because of large scale pvp in your game and for that, I can not express my gratitude enough. It is extremely fun when you’re in a group of 15-25 people fighting other groups of similar size, or larger pick up groups. This credit belongs to a refined combo-field based, AOE capped combat system that is unique to GW2.

It’s hard to see this when you haven’t felt the pleasure of dumping a big fat juicy bomb on a clump of hungry heavy-armor classes before or after pouncing them with your own heavy classes. If this format of play is so well supported by an unofficial crowd, imagine the fruit an ArenaNet endorsement could bear. I have not personally spoken to one person who has exhausted their desire to pursue the experience of larger scale fights once exposed to team-oriented 15+ vs 15+ in this combat system. (Aside from the period of time after bloodlust imbalanced the combat with stat bonuses, during which, many tried to find a similar experience in other MMOs)

Seriously, your combat system has a record deal while every other MMO CS is still posting raps on Youtube with a webcam from November 23, 2004. Think about what that means.

Introducing an official format of larger scale pvp, you will see a significant group of people return to play consistently once news has reached them- as well as a population boom to the existing community from other areas of the game. It’s pretty hard not to enjoy team-work in PvP.

Capitalize on this before someone makes a stand-alone of similar nature. The difference is that you as the developers already have the advantage of an experienced community to extract valuable input from as well as the boon of player generated content and tutorials to help ease newer players into the format. A boon that necromancers can’t corrupt.
kekekekekeke

but really.

Going to lend my support for the prospect of the larger scale 15v15+ combat.

However.

I am going to place some concerns and issues that I have with making it a reality. Many of the ‘naysayers’ have brought up relevant points that I hope those who want it to happen can address, while there are other thoughts I have come up with that probably need to be addressed as well. Ultimately, I would love to see full guilds compete, but looking at it from a larger scope, I see more flaws than just ‘popularity’ come into play:

- Cost: Gold? Gems?

Honestly, a big factor here is cost. If this were to pan out as we want, this ‘GvG’ type of arena would be a mode separate from WvW, PvE and SPvP. Why? Because it fits neither of those types, meaning that it would have to be an entirely new system put into the game just to fully allow the game-type to flourish. If we want expansive, competitive GvG on a large scale, it would be separate from all the rest.

That takes time and resources, and even if there were say, 100 guilds spanning all the versions of GW2 actively participating with 20+ competitors, that is only at least 2,000 players total that would take up the scene. Personally, that number might be a bit small for the actual number of guilds who might be interested but my point still stands, the game-mode is not at all the majority, it probably will never match the other game-types. Which means that in order to compensate for the resources put into that game-mode, it will come out of the pocket of A-Net in the hopes that the guilds who actually WANT the mode to prosper will sink in either gold or gems to do so. And this number won’t be a laughing matter, I would not be surprised if to create a 15v15 arena for a month cost 2000g with something like 60g a day purchases (Go ahead, do the gem conversion).

- Toxicity: Try putting 30+ people in a room and not leave a bad impression.
Anyone who has gone into SPvP or WvW…and in some cases any high-profile PvE map can attest that Elitism, although it can inspire players to better themselves, often will lead to back and forth vile spewed from the nether. Now imagine if the elite got together to pummel each other into oblivion, without any sort of group organization or professionalism involved? You got yourself a way to ensure no one ever wants to come play Guild Wars 2 because their first impressions of the game from watching that one 15v15 go sour gave them the answer.

That can’t happen. I actually have a simple fix for this, because of how bad it can turn out to be. For every 5 players on a team, only one of them can speak during any match. Yep, 3 people in a 15 man guild team can chat while the rest are muted. Which should be fine, 3rd party communications are essentially the backbone of these fights. But I must insist that not only can the team’s be mostly restricted, but the toxicity be toned down quite a bit. Reserve yourselves for the ‘locker room’ if you will.

- Mechanics? Cameras? Are there Llamas?
There will be no llamas (I can presume) however I do want to address another point. How can spectators actually keep track of what is going on? Fortunately, that previous point I made with the restrictive chat also comes into play here. Given the example prior with 1 player per 5 having chat active, that player also will act as a camera for the fight. Alongside a few stationary cameras to view the entire complex of insanity that happens with everyone shooting off everything at once.

One of the biggest hurdles I imagine for this game-mode aside from cost will be how to cater it to spectators in a fashion that makes it clear on what is going on. If this were ever to take off as an ‘E-Sport’ which many of you disagree with but can serve as a platform to illustrate how amazing GW2 is to potential customers, then it should not be terribly bogged down. Is it the job of the shoutcasters? The Cameras?

There is one other thing that needs to be addressed. I mentioned before that this does not fit any of the other game-types. That means that it will be its separate entity, which means that players who go into this mode will not be actively participating in the other modes. Do you understand what I am implying by this? There is not just a gold/gem cost here…

My final query is how do you intend to address the cost of players from the other game-modes that move straight to this one?

Not a GvGer myself, but I do have huge respect for those who do it. +1

Equinox.4195:

Thanks for re-opening the thread, moderators.

Also, I’d like to point out that GvGs don’t need to be 20v20. 20v20 creates a pretty large barrier-to-entry for a lot of guilds, not only in recruiting enough people to have a reasonable composition on any given night, but also recruiting enough GOOD players to put into that roster or trying to train a large group of people to all be able to compete. The skillcap in GvGs has definitely risen dramatically over the past year with the meta shifts and being a decent player doesn’t always cut it, and I believe this is especially prevalent in a 20v20 GvG.

One of the main reasons I feel like guilds still do 20v20’s is because they’re still following in the footsteps of old guilds and as guilds continue to make the demand of “we won’t do less than 20’s,” it’s only continuing to force this mindset that 20v20 is the only size that matters for GvG.

Plus, with the average player skill increasing over the years and the mindsets of players changing from spamming AoEs to focusing single targets, the concentration of damage with 20 players compared to something the size of 15 is a big difference.

I think a 20v20 option is fine, and there are valid reasons to prefer it to 15v15 and especially 10v10. Playstyles are very different between the three roster sizes, and preferring one to another is alright.

That said, I think everyone should be open-minded about smaller roster sizes, possibly even 8v8 or 12v12 to give other examples, if you are going to expect a positive response, or possibly even a response to this at all.

That’s my two cents. Getting support for the gamemode is more important to me than the size of it, so whether it’s 20v20, 12v12, 15v15, or whatever isn’t as important to me as just HAVING the official support, and I encourage everyone to approach this with a similar mindset.

I agree with a lot of what you said, but the 8v8 and 12v12 might get a bit awkward because the game bases a lot of combat around 5s and 10s (buffs go to 5 party members. Mass invis goes to 10), so I dont know how anything other than multiples of 5 would work. Sure, you could have 5, 5 and 2 or 4, 4 and 4, but I’m not sure if that’s something that I can see Anet doing. They’ll probably have multiple parties in something, anyways, so 10s or 15s… despite eles and gank generally running in separate parties from the rest of the stab-users.

But yes, 10v10 and 15v15 is much more logical for people to field. I’m not sure how you guys (EP and the GvG scene collectively) feels about objectives to make it a little more than death match. Hopefully not too focused on that, but I wouldn’t mind 10v10s or 15v15s where the main group was approximately 80% of the comp and then a few others might have to run around and do things, gank a lord or try to cap a flag. Something to add a bit more flavor if you’re losing and because (realistically) they’re not going to implement a system of death matches. I don’t think they would, anyways. However, they’d support longer fights of approximately 10-15 mins where a loss of one person doesn’t mean a full loss, just a loss until they can respawn and regroup while the other team gains a slight advantage if they push properly.

Melanion.4892:

Equinox.4195:

Thanks for re-opening the thread, moderators.

Also, I’d like to point out that GvGs don’t need to be 20v20. 20v20 creates a pretty large barrier-to-entry for a lot of guilds, not only in recruiting enough people to have a reasonable composition on any given night, but also recruiting enough GOOD players to put into that roster or trying to train a large group of people to all be able to compete. The skillcap in GvGs has definitely risen dramatically over the past year with the meta shifts and being a decent player doesn’t always cut it, and I believe this is especially prevalent in a 20v20 GvG.

One of the main reasons I feel like guilds still do 20v20’s is because they’re still following in the footsteps of old guilds and as guilds continue to make the demand of “we won’t do less than 20’s,” it’s only continuing to force this mindset that 20v20 is the only size that matters for GvG.

Plus, with the average player skill increasing over the years and the mindsets of players changing from spamming AoEs to focusing single targets, the concentration of damage with 20 players compared to something the size of 15 is a big difference.

I think a 20v20 option is fine, and there are valid reasons to prefer it to 15v15 and especially 10v10. Playstyles are very different between the three roster sizes, and preferring one to another is alright.

That said, I think everyone should be open-minded about smaller roster sizes, possibly even 8v8 or 12v12 to give other examples, if you are going to expect a positive response, or possibly even a response to this at all.

That’s my two cents. Getting support for the gamemode is more important to me than the size of it, so whether it’s 20v20, 12v12, 15v15, or whatever isn’t as important to me as just HAVING the official support, and I encourage everyone to approach this with a similar mindset.

I agree with a lot of what you said, but the 8v8 and 12v12 might get a bit awkward because the game bases a lot of combat around 5s and 10s (buffs go to 5 party members. Mass invis goes to 10), so I dont know how anything other than multiples of 5 would work. Sure, you could have 5, 5 and 2 or 4, 4 and 4, but I’m not sure if that’s something that I can see Anet doing. They’ll probably have multiple parties in something, anyways, so 10s or 15s… despite eles and gank generally running in separate parties from the rest of the stab-users.

But yes, 10v10 and 15v15 is much more logical for people to field. I’m not sure how you guys (EP and the GvG scene collectively) feels about objectives to make it a little more than death match. Hopefully not too focused on that, but I wouldn’t mind 10v10s or 15v15s where the main group was approximately 80% of the comp and then a few others might have to run around and do things, gank a lord or try to cap a flag. Something to add a bit more flavor if you’re losing and because (realistically) they’re not going to implement a system of death matches. I don’t think they would, anyways. However, they’d support longer fights of approximately 10-15 mins where a loss of one person doesn’t mean a full loss, just a loss until they can respawn and regroup while the other team gains a slight advantage if they push properly.

The idea of gvgs or rPvP or however it may be called is merely to be team deathmatch. We prefer an open, unobstructed place that can fit the size of the party while allowing room for casters and gank parties to move along the outside of the fight without being pushed against a wall if the enemy didn’t force them there.

Most of us fight in this style of match because we are not interested in objective based fighting. Gvgs are meant to be multiple groups of fairly short rounds (best of 7 currently). Ideally, when someone goes hard down then they might be transitioned to a spectator view, but currently in the scene the player just stays dead until the round is over (30 seconds to a couple minutes later).

Just want to show my support.

It would be the 1st large-scale (10-20 vs 10-20) E-Sport.

Difficult to set up ? Probably.
New market/Unprecedented gamemode ? Certainly.

Just like sPvP, it would need a better spectator mode though.

Xerox.6851:

The idea of gvgs or rPvP or however it may be called is merely to be team deathmatch. We prefer an open, unobstructed place that can fit the size of the party while allowing room for casters and gank parties to move along the outside of the fight without being pushed against a wall if the enemy didn’t force them there.

Most of us fight in this style of match because we are not interested in objective based fighting. Gvgs are meant to be multiple groups of fairly short rounds (best of 7 currently). Ideally, when someone goes hard down then they might be transitioned to a spectator view, but currently in the scene the player just stays dead until the round is over (30 seconds to a couple minutes later).

No, actually. We don’t prefer anything. The current GvG scene is deathmatch pvp because there’s no other option to be had. Deathmatch became the GvG scene because we do not have the resources to implement anything else. This is why we fight in this style, and realistically, this is the only way that we can have a sustainable ~10-20v10-20.

As I said, do NOT include anything which is too reliant on objectives. If you look at GW1 gvgs (not suggesting we have them, exactly), but they included large scale fights AND objectives which could give your team a boost if you split properly and capped them. This is far more sustainable and more watchable than a series of 1-2 minute rounds where everyone tries to fight each other. Sure, it’s enjoyable to play our current style of pvp, but I thought the purpose of this thread was to suggest that anet allow for more options to fight more than 5v5 or zergvzerg in wvw.

I’m trying to be practical. It’s incredibly unlikely that Anet will implement a deathmatch in the style that we currently have. I’m trying to provide options which are similar enough to our original wish of larger-scale fights without being something which Anet will immediately overlook. We have to be flexible if we want this kind of thing implemented and like I said, you’re foolish if you think we can get what we want from Anet without conceding on a few points. We can’t immediately hate any idea that involves objectives so long as those objectives don’t become the sole purpose of the match.

I’m thinking of something like a 10v10 or 15v15 in which you have side-objectives that provide slight amounts of help, maybe a buff, maybe a small amounts of points that will contribute to the final score, but will not decide the match. It would be risky to go for these buffs, but it could turn the tides of the match. Other than those side buffs which assist in the win of a tactical team instead of one zerg-blob, the match would be the rest of the team (probably 80% of the team, maybe more, so 8-13 people) fighting over a large cap-point (larger than the middle one in Foefire) where teams could both stand, out of range of each other, or at least the melee could stand there. Casters are free to roam outside this circle and the advantage comes when a team fully wipes in the center and the other can cap. If one team loses a person, if they hold out before that person can respawn (maybe 15-30 seconds later) and runs back, then it’s as if nothing happened. Otherwise, the team which got the kill can try to capitalize on that kill and snowball that into a win. It’s not quite dissimilar to GW1 gvg, but it’s different enough. And it’s similar enough to our current understanding of GvG that if you want, you could spend the day fighting over the center point. Simple as that.

It doesnt solve the desire for multiple matches, and I’m not sure exactly how to prevent one team wipe in the center from meaning you’re going to lose, no matter what. But I’m sure a game mode could be made that’s 10-15 minutes long with a series of fights.

It removes a lot of what is annoying about gvgs… Prebuffing will not be a thing anymore. You won’t be able to blow all your cooldowns unless you know that you’ll be good without them for the next 2-3 minutes.

tldr: We have to be flexible if we want this kind of thing implemented and like I said, you’re foolish if you think we can get what we want from Anet without conceding on a few points.

+1 !

Personally I’m a hardcore gamer on the WvW but even more on GvG of GW2. If I am still this game is that I still have the possibility with my guild to fight other guilds teamfight. I think I’m not the only player to be in this case and I think you neglect many of the population of WvW players which played this “marginal system”.

Let me remind you the name of your game : “Guild Wars” it means what it means …

To comply with this concept I find it logical that you manage this system. You did it very well on GW1 with fights on guild halls or HoH system. Why not reproduce on a larger scale on GW2 ?

I hope you will pay attention to this request

Best regards,

Kickstarter campaign imminent.

I really would love to see something Fort Aspenwood/Jade Quarry style from Guild Wars 1 be put into Guild Wars 2. Those were actually some of my favorite things to do in GW1, and unfortunately you can’t do them anymore since no one queues for them. I feel like that type of large scale map with sub objectives would work really well in a game where you don’t have a trinity and any class can work in a 1v1 situation or build for a group structure.

Just my 2 cents.

This is a really on-point thread with tons of important and true info (at least the first few pages I read, and what I skimmed after). Is the only red tag post in it really just to say “sorry we closed it”?

Pretty much, but the fact that they reopened it means they must have read through some of it. So that’s a plus.

Proof of interest in this ArenaNet?

This thread has more views than the Academy Gaming Weekly PvP tournament thread and ToL 3 DPS announcement… combined. Both of those posts also have active involvement from ANET posters talking about more than “sorry I closed it”.

As Odinzu said, take a serious look at how much the community has built itself up without your endorsement or support. If you were to lend that, much would go on as usual, the community runs itself without your real involvement, and you capitalize on an untapped market. That’s what we call a win-win strategy.

I would like to show my support for this too. Even just having an instanced arena would be awesome.

I also support this.

I WvW’d a lot in the past but it is dead to me now, primarily because of the endless miss-matches.

I would much rather prefer a balanced game mode.

I would play a 20v20 GvG before WvW, if it was available.

manysongsgw.2931:

It feels like a lot of people don’t realize there’s a thing called custom arenas supporting 10v10 already. If it’s a supported game-mode or tournaments that’s desired, then wait another 5 years. Most of the tournaments have been community driven. /thread

Most of the gvg guilds already have a custom arena. But as you yourself said, they only support up to 10 players per side. The game mode that we are looking for will support teams above 10 members. The current standard for gvg guilds are between 15 – 20 members per team. Also a gvg tournament is being implemented in NA’s T2 that is fully community driven.

What is being asked is for Anet to offer a way for gvg guilds to fight eachother w/o interference from trolls and open up the possible opponents to being more then just the current opposing server. That would take gvg guilds out of server politics and open up the number of guilds that they could schedule fights with. So no, its not a true supported game mode or tournament that is desired, just a proper map.

manysongsgw.2931:

It feels like a lot of people don’t realize there’s a thing called custom arenas supporting 10v10 already. If it’s a supported game-mode or tournaments that’s desired, then wait another 5 years. Most of the tournaments have been community driven. /thread

Also the moment you go above 5v5 to lets say 7v7 or 8v8 custom arenas become incredibly laggy

Replying to the first post because this thread got really long….

Anet hasn’t “gotten it” for over 2 years. They’ve been trying to include elements of twitch, strategy and pattern based gameplay into pvp and it hasn’t worked. The thing is, you generally can pick 2 of these and make a game. There are fast paced MMOs and fast action RTS but games that include all 3 successfully? I don’t know of one. With this new stronghold map they’ve gone even further towards the action RTS genre yet 40 guys blobbing in a circle garners more views than tournaments with actual prizes and announcers. Part of the problem seems to be the success of the “mega games” and everybody’s desire to copy them. When FPS were all the rage, CS copycats were everywhere and when WoW was rising the same thing happened. Games like SW:G tried to get in on the action(but failed) and the billion other MMOs that sprang up wanted some of that money. Now the hot ticket to riches is the action RTS and you’ll see even more of these coming to market.

GW1 succeeded mainly because it pulled away from everyone else. While Anet claims they wanted to rethink MMOs and introduce new ideas with GW2, they’ve moved away from the MMO and towards the “hot” action RTS. But many people don’t want that, they want an interesting MMO and sPvP doesn’t offer it. It’s not fun to get nuked, it’s not fun to be completely unaware in chaos, it doesn’t make the game better to be fast if no one knows what’s going on. So what has happened? Players made their own MMO pvp. GvG(as far as I can tell) is simply dps/tank/heal and that’s it. They have like 10 guys in the first group and 5 squishies in the back doing dps. Tanking is done(in part) through the 5 max targets mechanic and healing is done through supportive skills and water fields. Players aren’t reading their opponent’s tiny skill animations because who cares, you’re moving with a team and it’d be impossible anyway.

The unique mechanics of GW2 actually see a lot of use too. Rallying and field management are crucial when 5 people can get up from 1 death and fields are such an important part of healing. Another note is the size of teams. MMOs encourage massive amounts of people to cooperate, spvp is 5v5. No one can play with their friends so they stay in wvw and that’s probably the most important factor to consider. People tend to watch and do the things they enjoy, being part of a guild and playing with friends is important. It’s what an MMO is all about.

a big +1 to you mr. data

People have been asking for this for literally years now. They didn’t listen when GvG was at its peak popularity, and they’re probably not going to listen now. sPvP is the only game mode they want to support competitively.

Even if they had a massive change of heart and decided today that they were going to make 15v15 TDM a game mode, it’d probably be released in Q3 2018.

I think that without a proper CDI, its hard for the devs to really know what the GvG community would want. Its not clear whether people just want an entirely new mode and ladders(which I disagree with) or just full capability to fight any roster of 15 or 20 in a custom arena like we have in hotm(which I would think is the best possible solution). Hopefully this thread brings some clarity to that.

Anet can’t be ignorant to all of this after all this time and having such clear feedback from players. At this point it seems like they have chosen to stubbornly ignore.

eyestrain.3056:

Anet can’t be ignorant to all of this after all this time and having such clear feedback from players. At this point it seems like they have chosen to stubbornly ignore.

It’s just wasted potential at this point, both from a gameplay and financial perspective.
Other companies have longer-terms vision, like Epic giving the Unreal Engine to modders, or Bethesda (amongst many others), for a constant influx of new community-driven content.

Anet restrained their vision to having chaotic open field (WvW) and small scale pvp, with not place in the middle for larger group balanced and competitive content.

It’s the same with PvE: Huge blob events and single player Living Story, but no Guild Raids or Guild Dungeons.

The sad thing is that no other game on the market has a compelling GvG style competitive experience. There is no alternative other than waiting for a MMO company to wake up to the new MMO player’s expectations.

Odinzu.9645:

Introducing an official format of larger scale pvp, you will see a significant group of people return to play consistently once news has reached them- as well as a population boom to the existing community from other areas of the game. It’s pretty hard not to enjoy team-work in PvP.

+1 to the OP, and many of the ideas suggested. I encourage the community to keep this discussion active. Excellent post above by Odinzu, and I quote this section especially because I personally know of at least 20 friends who have left the game in annoyance at the lack of support we’ve (the WvW/GvG community) received, but would come back to GW2 right away if ArenaNet would lend its support to the MASSIVE section of its community that prefers GvG and WvW as its favorite game mode.

I do respect players that prefer sPvP, and I’m glad that it’s grown and changed so much over the years, but in my case, I don’t like dueling or the 5v5 model, and vastly prefer the larger group dynamics that occur in a 15v15 – GW2’s combat mechanics are SO suited to it!

We have wanted support of GvG/15v15+ for years… PLEASE consider implementing at minimum a proper instanced map for us, and additionally I would love seeing tournaments and rewards as well.

Thank you to the sPvP players, PvE players, and roamers/1v1’ers that have come to this thread to show support of the OP as well <3

Well OS is queued for all three servers in T2 tonight. 9 guilds are having a fight night; that’s 180 people.

Just though I’d post it here, there is a GvG tournament that includes 4 guilds from each server in NA T2. It is starting in a week. More info in this spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sElOhnBtDiITLFdi8oyl4caua8ciaS8039BaFxT8E60/edit#gid=1845799049 If you really want rPvP to be a thing that ANET supports show your support for this!

Gileed.7509:

Just though I’d post it here, there is a GvG tournament that includes 4 guilds from each server in NA T2. It is starting in a week. More info in this spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sElOhnBtDiITLFdi8oyl4caua8ciaS8039BaFxT8E60/edit#gid=1845799049 If you really want rPvP to be a thing that ANET supports show your support for this!

Awesome!! I will definitely be tuning into the streams for this.

Jinn.7948:

Well OS is queued for all three servers in T2 tonight. 9 guilds are having a fight night; that’s 180 people.

Even CD/DH/HoD had about 80 people in OS with alternating GvGs last night.

So, basicly tons of people who need to hide behind 19 others want their “game mode” to be called pvp. Most of wich are lovers of gw1, doge2hard, manly man dem big fights in which i listen to some dude yelling “hammerstun”. What this thread is doing in spvp, pls?

Aenye.2390:

So, basicly tons of people who need to hide behind 19 others want their “game mode” to be called pvp. Most of wich are lovers of gw1, doge2hard, manly man dem big fights in which i listen to some dude yelling “hammerstun”. What this thread is doing in spvp, pls?

u took the bait… read the thread, its been done to death.

summary:

these big guilds want a place to play their game mode. the final equitable solution was an instance of obsidian sanctum that they can queue up 20v20 matches. possibly as a custom arena style thing.

to A your Q, it was in HoT thread, was moved here when it became clear it didn’t belong there, but had no where else to go either. it is technically pvp afterall

Adding support +1

I support the idea, but here’s my biggest qualm:

Right now, they don’t support 15v15 organized fights, which means they don’t necessarily have to worry about balancing them. Suppose they start supporting them in some fashion. Do people become much louder about balancing this meta as well? How do you reconcile the 15v15 meta with the sPvP 5v5, PvE, and WvW (which is probably similar to 15v15 for the most part, maybe) metas? It’s adding complexity to their balancing equation, which I believe already suffers from analysis paralysis and causes them to only push more impactful changes once in a great while.

Odds are they won’t want to in-game mechanically support something they can’t put the time and effort into fleshing out and balancing to the best of their ability.

That being said, I think potentially incorporating larger-scale competition that isn’t Conquest-based into sPvP would be a smooth move.

Cogbyrn.7283:

How do you reconcile the 15v15 meta with the sPvP 5v5, PvE, and WvW (which is probably similar to 15v15 for the most part, maybe) metas? It’s adding complexity to their balancing equation, which I believe already suffers from analysis paralysis and causes them to only push more impactful changes once in a great while.

well gw1 devs had a sollution. many skills had a pvp version which was used in place of the original one when entering the pvp world(hotm here). this existd in gw2 too but its used in much less cases(like c&d got ~half the dmg).

from gw1 wiki: Player versus Player (PvP) is a style of gameplay that ( ….. ) . As balance is a concern in PvP, the PvP effect causes many skills to be weaker in competitive play than in PvE.

Frankly the meta in WvW has for the most part been dictated by the meta in 15v15/20v20. The guilds GvGing bring whatever meta shifts they found in GvGs to WvW which guilds that don’t GvG/pugmanders/pugs pick up on by facing them.

The food being used, the hammer guard meta, to the big bomb meta, to pirate ship. These were all things developed by GvG guilds.

+1 to create custom arena for gvg deathmatch.
I am playing in the GvG scene since 8 mounths, i have a guild that raid 3-4 times at week, been able to bring at least 15 people every evening to play. And you know, we are not the only one, i can tell many many guilds able to organize people constantly cuz people are really interested in this game play.

Some tags that we face daily, many we managed to organize gvg (at least 1 at week) in these 8 mounths without a pvp matchmaking support: TA, TUP, AT, BULL, OBB, DA, DR, SOD, CORE, NR, SOUL, PAIN, CS, WIPE, FRAG, IF, GH, SOC, KICK, MAD, CC, SLAY, IO, GROU, dR, PONY, Kale, VII, SFRJ, AV, GCEF, eR, WAR, BSO, vE, FL, RT, LRS, VAI, wdr, DIS, RD, KYSA, XT, RE, LAG, ELY, RioT, dF, AKGL, BomB, USA, TSO, How, SO, TT (well this one is more for the blob playing sorry TT XD XD).

You see is more than 50 guilds that i could mention, considering these guild are been pick fromn those 5-6 servers that we usualy face (thx RNG server wvw system), but i am sure there’s a lot more between EU servers that we never faced, and sorry if i didnt mention any, i cant remember all and i cant play with my guild in every server, but let me say guys i love any guild raid/gvg member who contribuite to make this game so enjoyable, even after 3 years i am still improving my gameplay, my comunications and my relationship during fights with you.

Now if i have to say what those guilds do every evening during raid, most of them do what my guild usualy do: roaming with at least 15 people well organized, looking for scrim or arranging GvG. We usualy have at least one official scrim every night, arranging numbers of players, timer to start, round wins etc..

Really is not possible to create a matchmaking for this gameplay? Are you kidding me? These guilds can go play their wvw RAID on borderlands, untill the matchmaking queue for the 15vs15 or 20vs20 pop ups, then the fifteen people of the chosen roster by leader will be ported to a OS like arena, starting the timer for the 5 rounds against an other guild from any server who queued for the GvG. Lets say we could also set a time for the matchmaking open, from 20:00 CET to 24:00 CET (the usual raid time and the time where all the guilds i mentioned before are able to rally at least 15 people, and it’s established that ALL THOSE GUILDS i mentioned are able to, cuz i see them every night)

Those are my ideas to make GvG happens, and the number of GvG guild could really increase, with leaderboards, a ranking system matchmaking based on scores etc….

I know this can be seen as an ambitious system and Arenanet is scared to invest in this, but i think would be so much innovative in the MMO panorama, plz dont let your fantastic fight Group game die in a mere PVE / PVP game, cuz it dont deserve it.

Talking for me, i would have left GW2 much time ago if it wasnt for the GvG scene. I think many people left because of the way this gamemode has been let inconsiderate (many of my friends), I’ll probably have to switch to BDO if this cant become reality, and i really dont want cuz BDO combat system sux! I love GW2 combat system and i say it’s made for a 15v15 /20v20 deathmatch gamemode, so any member of the guilds i mentioned and everyone is interested in this, pump up!

When ESPN is talking about having a ESport channel, game companies better wake up. This is an incredible opportunity to define a new genre of competitive play and at the same time generate millions in profits.

Guild Wars (1), with GvG was already ahead in that field. Why isn’t Guild Wars 2 making the best of that and proposing balanced PvP on a scale never seen before?
I would bet some game company somewhere is preparing a breakthrough in the Esport genre.

10v10, 12v12, 15v15, 20v20, 25v25… It really doesn’t matter. You have to go back to the drawing board and make the best PvP every seen in a MMO if you want be in the Spotlight of the new ESport phenomenon. I doubt a single 5v5 Stronghold map will cut it for television, but the good news is that you guys at Anet already have the best fighting system in a MMO.

LOL that’s ridiculous.

You can’t tell what’s going on in 5v5 tournaments right now always if you’re not familiar with GW2. Higher numbers would just make it unwatchable. You gvg guys shouldn’t talk about ever being #esports. Zerging will never be #esports outside of RTSes.

Honestly, the only way GW2 is going to break into eSports is if it adds meaningful objectives that don’t smash groups of players together. Otherwise it’s just a mess on-screen without being able to more easily grasp the overarching strategy.

Conquest isn’kitten and Deathmatch won’t be it. But that doesn’t mean they couldn’t have some sort of 15v15 Deathmatch people could queue for… somehow. They’d have to add some sort of allying/group-syncing queue method.

Me, someone who used to do WvW/GvG for 24/7 over course of 1.5 years, support this idea. I quit WvW because I felt it lacked the plain, deathmatch between guilds.

Though, the add of Obsidian did show Anet is thinking about its WvW-community, which I’ll never forget still.

Now, if we could have a place where Guild Leaders can use Obsidian Sanctum for GvG on the run, that would be great. Basically like PvE/WvW/PvP and a GvG section now. Where you can teleport with your Guild and challenge other guilds.

I really can’t call Stronghold GvG, although I like the gametype. 5v5 is hardly GvG in any concept, imo.

SkylightMoon.1980:

I think that without a proper CDI, its hard for the devs to really know what the GvG community would want. Its not clear whether people just want an entirely new mode and ladders(which I disagree with) or just full capability to fight any roster of 15 or 20 in a custom arena like we have in hotm(which I would think is the best possible solution). Hopefully this thread brings some clarity to that.

I think there was a GvG CDI scheduled for last year, but then suddenly Anet stopped having those alltogether. Correct me if I’m wrong, but if I remember right the raid CDI caused so much trouble they gave up with the CDIs?

They are afraid of doing anything else than 5vs5 or 5man groups in PvE. I don’t know why, but this is really strange.

FrouFrou.4958:

SkylightMoon.1980:

I think that without a proper CDI, its hard for the devs to really know what the GvG community would want. Its not clear whether people just want an entirely new mode and ladders(which I disagree with) or just full capability to fight any roster of 15 or 20 in a custom arena like we have in hotm(which I would think is the best possible solution). Hopefully this thread brings some clarity to that.

I think there was a GvG CDI scheduled for last year, but then suddenly Anet stopped having those alltogether. Correct me if I’m wrong, but if I remember right the raid CDI caused so much trouble they gave up with the CDIs?

They did have one planned but it was cancelled because of the fact(I think) that they didn’t have resources to put into a separate GvG mode anyways. Colin said this and so did Mark when he commented on the forums. Thats where I disagree with them though. I don’t think GvG needs to be a whole separate mode. People just want more in game support for GvG. But all in all I think we need a CDI to make it clear what people exactly want from GvG.

Best players I met in GW2 always came from the GvGers group, the clear higher skill level is what pulled me into that game mode right when I was about to quit due to being sick of boring PvP. Got months of enjoyment doing GvGs.

Just started playing again after nearly a two year break…. The story back then was pvp folks here trolled GvG supporters to no end, ‘no skills zergers’, ‘pve kids’ etc…

I was convinced the best players I had seen in GW2 I met doing GvG not conquest mode, and I set out to prove it.

I entered PvP conquest and casually climbed to top 50 on the solo queue. The next time a conquest mode ‘pvp’ player flamed GvG, and they did it often. I posted a screen shot showing my standings on the pvp ladder, higher then every single person trolling GvG by miles.

I figured having climbed to a decent level in GvG unofficial ladder and PvP official ladder I was speaking from a position of first hand knowledge and that Anet/pvpers would respect that.

Anet locked the thread and gave me an infraction after all the complaints flooded from the PvP folks on this forum.

Glad to see GvGs are still happening and pulling in to many supporters. I always thought it was a more complex involved game mode that took great teamwork and great builds at high level.

Anet please hear us out. It makes no sense that “Guild Wars” 2 doesn’t have guild wars in it. You need to implement something that will cater to this perspective of your customers. It will definitely bring some serious hype and much needed flavor in Guild Wars 2. I honestly wouldn’t be upset if you didn’t add the exact way we are doing Guild vs Guild, but something that provided guilds to compete with each other no matter the server would be huge.

I can honestly say though, if you ever had the slightest thought on doing it, make it larger scale than current pvp. 8 vs 8 or even 10 vs 10. This would definitely add to the longevity of Guild Wars 2.

I understand the desire to have your play-style supported. However, as a spectator without any vested interest in the guilds participating, it is not watchable. I’m sure for the people playing it’s fun to have a zerg vs zerg, but promoting it as watchable is ridiculous.

If the only point here is to have A-net create a tool for larger size groups to queue against each other in some way, then I definitely support that idea.

A possible solution is a custom arena with a limit of ten meet in the middle on foefire and have at it.

The amulet system/easy access to sigils and runes makes it easier to try different comps/builds out quickly without having to go use the TP for sigils, runes and gear.

Carbonize.1530:

I understand the desire to have your play-style supported. However, as a spectator without any vested interest in the guilds participating, it is not watchable. I’m sure for the people playing it’s fun to have a zerg vs zerg, but promoting it as watchable is ridiculous.

If the only point here is to have A-net create a tool for larger size groups to queue against each other in some way, then I definitely support that idea.

A possible solution is a custom arena with a limit of ten meet in the middle on foefire and have at it.

The amulet system/easy access to sigils and runes makes it easier to try different comps/builds out quickly without having to go use the TP for sigils, runes and gear.

Being able to spectate individual players would make this infinitely easier and cooler to watch. The truth of spectating gvg’s from the side of the arena is that you can tell certain things that are going on. You see them on a large scale. You see positioning of the fp or the ranged or the melee relative to everyone else and taht gives you a good idea of whats going on. Positioning is bascially everything in these fights. There are some good gvg cast vids online that kinda explain whats going on in some of these pre-recorded fights.

Oh and t2 invitational going on this week, heres a photo of just one side of the arena since ic ouldnt get it all lol

Carbonize.1530:

I understand the desire to have your play-style supported. However, as a spectator without any vested interest in the guilds participating, it is not watchable. I’m sure for the people playing it’s fun to have a zerg vs zerg, but promoting it as watchable is ridiculous.

Do you think 5v5 arena is more watchable? Or even football? Actually both footballs or any other game/sport? If you are not invested in that particular game or game type you just don’t care and you will not watch it. It is not only gvg issue but all games share it. That’s why there is commentator and tools to give you sense of it. And this gvg doesn’t have and still have similar numbers of viewers as supported mode. And that brings a question: why?

Arja.3594:

Carbonize.1530:

I understand the desire to have your play-style supported. However, as a spectator without any vested interest in the guilds participating, it is not watchable. I’m sure for the people playing it’s fun to have a zerg vs zerg, but promoting it as watchable is ridiculous.

Do you think 5v5 arena is more watchable? Or even football? Actually both footballs or any other game/sport? If you are not invested in that particular game or game type you just don’t care and you will not watch it. It is not only gvg issue but all games share it. That’s why there is commentator and tools to give you sense of it. And this gvg doesn’t have and still have similar numbers of viewers as supported mode. And that brings a question: why?

Yes I do, the objectives make it so there is a chance for a turn around multiple times in a match through strategy. Almost all one off death matches come down to who gets the first kills, then it’s just stupid to watch further. Occasionally something magical happens, but very rarely. I’ve played all forms of pvp for roughly 20 years, large scale battle like GvG has always seemed to be more a social event than true pvp. It’s fun as a participant but the action based combat gets watered down to a lot of 1. GW2 combat is much more active than most mmos and large scale battle makes it less active with the illusion a lot is going on through copious amounts of particle effects.

Still think you should have the options to better support your preferred pvp style.

Since Guild Halls were announced for HoT I figured that some kind of gvg arena would be included in this package. Guilds could have a controlled arena for later scale battles complete with spectate mode as part of their hall. It would be a beautiful way to build guild identity and community and to cut down on the problems in OS like trolling.

It may be totally impractical but that’s what I looked forward to and hoped for.