Guild Wars 2

Shockwave.1230:

Jasher.6580:

I do not run rune of strength and I disagree with the OP. I think Elementalists are at a good spot with that rune. Without the rune, they will be weaker than they currently are which will put them at a disadvantage again.

Also, I do not play an Elementalist or a Warrior.

If you’re of the opinion an ele is fine with might stacks why not suggest buffing ele’s personal might stacking, while nerfing the runes?

Good point. Well I’m all for buffing Elementalists and nerfing the rune set then. Though, I feel like Warriors are the only offenders when rocking that runeset. I have no issues with any other profession which runs it.

Blackjack.5621:

Shockwave.1230:

Jasher.6580:

I do not run rune of strength and I disagree with the OP. I think Elementalists are at a good spot with that rune. Without the rune, they will be weaker than they currently are which will put them at a disadvantage again.

Also, I do not play an Elementalist or a Warrior.

If you’re of the opinion an ele is fine with might stacks why not suggest buffing ele’s personal might stacking, while nerfing the runes?

^ this, we don´t need builds that stand and fall with a buff or nerf of a runeset.

Exactly! Nerf Rune of Strength. If Ele is too weak after that, there are plenty of ways to buff Ele the right way:
1) Make Signets instant
2) Make Glyphs cast faster and provide more defensive utilities
3) increase the base damage (not the total damage) of their skills by 20%, roughly equivalent to a few stacks of might

Relying on the OP-ness of a rune set just to be viable again is bad. Also, having to rely on almost 1000 more stats just to be viable again means Ele base damage is too low.

Sunshine.5014:

Blackjack.5621:

Shockwave.1230:

Jasher.6580:

I do not run rune of strength and I disagree with the OP. I think Elementalists are at a good spot with that rune. Without the rune, they will be weaker than they currently are which will put them at a disadvantage again.

Also, I do not play an Elementalist or a Warrior.

If you’re of the opinion an ele is fine with might stacks why not suggest buffing ele’s personal might stacking, while nerfing the runes?

^ this, we don´t need builds that stand and fall with a buff or nerf of a runeset.

Exactly! Nerf Rune of Strength. If Ele is too weak after that, there are plenty of ways to buff Ele the right way:
1) Make Signets instant
2) Make Glyphs cast faster and provide more defensive utilities
3) increase the base damage (not the total damage) of their skills by 20%, roughly equivalent to a few stacks of might

Relying on the OP-ness of a rune set just to be viable again is bad. Also, having to rely on almost 1000 more stats just to be viable again means Ele base damage is too low.

Honestly though, playing against all the professions… the only ones which feel “too strong” when running strength runes is Warrior. With that in mind, is the rune really the problem or is it Warriors?

Try Mesmer with it (phantasm/shatter build), Engi with it (search for Five Gauge build in the engi forums), Even a Guardian can help his teammates to keep very high stacks of Might in combat with Empowered. Basically the team I’m running with have 1 guardian and 4 other classes all run Rune of Strength. One Empowered from the guardian and our DPS increases significantly. The Rune is really OP.

celestial + strength is OP. I am using it on warrior. It is OP. Warrior should not be using celestial. The benefit of healing power, cond damage, etc are very nice, but at a big cost of direct damage… until strength runes are added. Now my warrior keeps up constant 15-20 might stacks and runs around with 2,500k power 45% crit 200% crit dmg, 3.1k armor 24k health, 750 healing and 1.1k cond damage.

Those stats are OP. I shouldn’t be a direct damage class, condition damage class, tanky, and sustainable all at once.

I would:
-add an internal CD for sigils of battle of 9 seconds
-reduce the bonus 6 set damage from 7% to 4%

Thank Solstice, I agree with you

Celestial is designed to have much lower power, which is fine; however, the OP Rune of Strength allows them to keep ~20 stacks of might (and more if they are in a team fight and receive might from teammates’ blasts or Empowered).

When you run into a team fights and see everyone on your team has at least 20 stacks of might, you know you will win, but relying on a vastly OP rune to win is not a stable strategy. It will get nerfed.

Chokolata.1870:

I would:
-add an internal CD for sigils of battle of 9 seconds
-reduce the bonus 6 set damage from 7% to 4%

Sigil of Battle already has a cooldown of 9 seconds. It’s the Rune of Strength change that made things become way over the top.

We need to:
1) remove the 4th piece bonus that gives free might
2) reduce the 6th piece bonus to 4% dmg, or keep it at 7%, but remove the bonus duration

Honestly, I don’t use the runes, but the only offender I see are Warriors, and that’s the truth.

make it an ele-only glyph and let the 4p bonus proc on attunement-switch or something

I think sizers build needs an honorable mention in this topic too…
Going for supreme survibility/utility while retaining such high dmg makes S/D imba

Thieves NEED strength runes to be relevant…. any nerf to this runeset should come with a thief buff. I agree that we should have more rune diversity though.

Why do people think eles need the runes to stack might..do you forget the frozen burst buff and double on swap sigil buff ??
This rune would be great even at its former pre buff form ..I dont know how they got this like it is and they went and completely destroy divinity for example..Wtf:d
Also knowing that 25 stacks is the cap a completely new guy coming in the game with a clear fresh mind would assume that its something that should happen with the collaboration of 2 or more people..But yeah..logic
Although i dont mind the current balance and class viability(pls dont mess with my ele till i get some joy out of it in few months !! )

Im in the camp that believes this rune is over the limit. As is perplexity (I know, they’re not in spvp, but they nearly were.) I’d call for them to be nerfed in not boon duration, but in their sources of might.

Larynx.2453:

Why is bringing boon strip not a better answer than nerfing might?

because nearly half of all classes can boon strip?

Hype.8032:

Thieves NEED strength runes to be relevant…. any nerf to this runeset should come with a thief buff. I agree that we should have more rune diversity though.

Thieves do not need this rune. S/D acro thieves need this rune or their damage is too low to be relevant.

they can leave it like this only if they give boon rips to all the classes.

Why is achieving the maximum amount of Might stacks considered so wrong, or broken, or inappropriate? Why have a maximum you can’t reach except for small fleeting moments? ANet understood this, which is why we have Strength runes in their current iteration. They simply gave the ability to stack it higher and faster, but at the price that they fall off faster than previously – at least 15% shorter duration from before the feature patch. I think this rune set functions the way every rune set should. Boons were intended to be used. Previously crit damage was favored, which made Might redundant in most cases. Might is now relevant as you all are clearly aware.

In fact the “cheesy” damage culprits out there right now have little or nothing to do with Strength Runes, i.e. Spinal Shivers + Lich Form, Eviscerate + Sigil of Intel, every AI build with a bunker at the wheel watching his “pets” kill his enemies him, etc etc

This is not the issue you’re looking for /wave-of-the-hand

hackks.3687:

Why is achieving the maximum amount of Might stacks considered so wrong, or broken, or inappropriate? Why have a maximum you can’t reach except for small fleeting moments?

Simply put, because the game is balanced around hitting max stacks only on small, fleeting moments.

It’s like thieves with Backstab. Once they land it, their damage is generally much lower for a bit. There’s prep work to land that big hit. But, if they changed Backstab to deal its full damage regardless of enemy facing and made it the dagger auto-attack (instead of stealth attack), I can guarantee you would scream OP. That’s pretty much what constantly running with max Might is like. The game isn’t balanced for it. That kind of output should only happen with lots and lots of setup solo for a brief period of awesome or with a coordinated group effort. Right now, it just…happens. Strength Runes aren’t the only culprit in this, but they are easily identified and are actually too strong on their own.

Remove the “gain might when struck” proc on the #4 bonus and re-evaluate from there. The runes are over-budget and their “conditional” damage bonus takes literally zero effort from the wearer to maintain nearly 100% of the time.

Shockwave.1230:

Hype.8032:

Thieves NEED strength runes to be relevant…. any nerf to this runeset should come with a thief buff. I agree that we should have more rune diversity though.

Thieves do not need this rune. S/D acro thieves need this rune or their damage is too low to be relevant.

+

I’d also say that the current thief meta is kinda disgusting, probably the worst of all the “metas” we have right now.

Larynx.2453:

Why is bringing boon strip not a better answer than nerfing might?

I feel like the effectiveness of boon stripping is out weighed by the speed and ease of reapplication of boons which makes just running a strength/battle build more effective as a counter then boon stripping in some cases.

GW2 is for funzies.

And, it’s a fun game for sure. There are just too many variables. “Fixed” variables break fixed variables. Especially when GW2 has lots of variables. It’s trendy.

The runes are fun. Leave them alone. Don’t nerf fun…the op obviously wants condi meta back

piffdaddy.8014:

The runes are fun. Leave them alone. Don’t nerf fun…the op obviously wants condi meta back

the runes are just as OP for condi as power if you ask me, if not even moreso because cond damage is lower than power so +35 per might stack is a higher % increase for cond damage than it is for power damage.

I don’t know which game you guys are playing. I play against these builds everyday, and I don’t see anything OP about it (outside of Warrior).

Jasher.6580:

I don’t know which game you guys are playing. I play against these builds everyday, and I don’t see anything OP about it (outside of Warrior).

I think the fact that it’s the hands-down best rune choice for too many different classes and builds is evidence that it is either OP or too many other runes are UP. It’s probably a tiny bit the latter, but mostly the former.

I think it’s wrong that any profession should be able to maintain 25 stacks of any condition or boon permanently. It should be a team effort to achieve and keep those numbers, not a single runes job. So my opinion would be that rune of strength need a shave.

I see some here talk about boon stripping; no profession can strip boons as fast as this rune is able to apply them.

these classes can keep might on themselves all the time without the rune’s help. the rune just increases the # of stacks by about 25% but other runes do that as well (hoelbrak and fire do the same exact thing). The really OP part is +7% damage while under the effect of might. The problem is:

while under the effects of might = always

Actually it’s quite possible to steal the might. I am amazed at how easy I kill hambows then.

Solstice.1097:

these classes can keep might on themselves all the time without the rune’s help. the rune just increases the # of stacks by about 25% but other runes do that as well (hoelbrak and fire do the same exact thing). The really OP part is +7% damage while under the effect of might. The problem is:

while under the effects of might = always

Usually when someone says something is OP, it means that well.. they are literally “overpowered”. I don’t use these runes, and I fight classes who use these runes, and they don’t feel overpwoered to fight against. I fail to see the logic and the reasoning in this thread.

Again… Warriors I feel are over the top, but I don’t think the runes are to blame.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

i will say it again, your arguments about runes of strength is overpowered is invalid, because stacks of might can be removed very easily.

How many classes can remove Boons though, without the use of Sigils that is. It is okay to say they can be removed but you are exaggerating how easily they can be removed because not every class can remove boons.

SUGGESTION:

Rune adjustment
__________________________________________________________________
Option 1: adjust the duration of the runes slightly
Option 2: make it so blasts in fire don’t give you 3 but only 2 stacks of might. That will make a significant difference.
Option 3: lower the amount of might/condi given by a stack of might.
__________________________________________________________________

Class adjustment
__________________________________________________________________
Option 1: nerf warrior base damage
Option 2: nerf warrior might access
Option 3: decrease warrior passive defences and keep damage intact
__________________________________________________________________

boon stripping cannot keep up with might stacking. maybe a shatter mesmer 1v1 can pull it off in some situations, but otherwise this rune might as well read “permanent 7% damage increase, 25-30%+ more average might stacks, and +175 power”

If that’s how the rune read, which would be virtually true, does it not sound a bit OP?

Solstice.1097:

If that’s how the rune read, which would be virtually true, does it not sound a bit OP?

Let’s not talk about how something sounds, and let’s talk about how something actually is.

Besides Warrior, do you have a hard time fighting against other classes who use strength runes?

I don’t…

there are better ways to get +7% damage than relying on a Might proc….

Nerf them or don’t, this is another ele who feels they’re too strong.

There’s a way for every class to remove might(sigils) but I think a perfect build (well rounded) doesn’t throw much weight into boon removal, as removing them is an imperfect science. If you could pick which you removed, then it’d be a different story.

Best alternative is just shave the rune set down by its +7% bonus. It already allows for 25 stacks of might.

warrior, mesmer, thief, engi, and ele all have these in their go-to rune options.

what other rune is this universally used?

it’s used even more now than lyssa was pre-patch (but not by much)

this is coming from someone using these runes right now. i have them on a warrior with a celestial amulet, and my DPS is similar to pre-patch zerker + lyssa, but with much more survivability and condition damage on top.

it should get shaved a bit, mostly just the #6, and celestial might need about 3% stat reduction as well while we’re at it.

Solstice.1097:

warrior, mesmer, thief, engi, and ele all have these in their go-to rune options.

what other rune is this universally used?

it’s used even more now than lyssa was pre-patch (but not by much)

this is coming from someone using these runes right now. i have them on a warrior with a celestial amulet, and my DPS is similar to pre-patch zerker + lyssa, but with much more survivability and condition damage on top.

it should get shaved a bit, mostly just the #6, and celestial might need about 3% stat reduction as well while we’re at it.

Personally I don’t agree that they need a shave. They aren’t super powerful or broken to fight against. It’s like you’re asking for a nerf based on personal feelings.

@Solstice
So you think that celestial is too strong and then you suggest a reduction of less than 1/3 of what a might stack gives??
To me that sounds like you think celestial is fine
I think the amulet is fine.It specialise in nothing and it just doesnt suck balls..So nowyou cant go “too wrong” with it which is entirely differnt than it being the best choice.

Avead.5760:

@Solstice
So you think that celestial is too strong and then you suggest a reduction of less than 1/3 of what a might stack gives??
To me that sounds like you think celestial is fine
I think the amulet is fine.It specialise in nothing and it just doesnt suck balls..So nowyou cant go “too wrong” with it which is entirely differnt than it being the best choice.

celestial was just a side note at the end of my comment. I feel it is relevant because celestial + strength is the solution for all those class builds that once had to decide whether to be damage based or survivability based and now they are both. Without strength runes I would not run celestial due to lack of DPS… I’d just run soldier or berserker and have to decide whether to be tanky or DPS, like I should have to.

Solstice.1097:

Avead.5760:

@Solstice
So you think that celestial is too strong and then you suggest a reduction of less than 1/3 of what a might stack gives??
To me that sounds like you think celestial is fine
I think the amulet is fine.It specialise in nothing and it just doesnt suck balls..So nowyou cant go “too wrong” with it which is entirely differnt than it being the best choice.

celestial was just a side note at the end of my comment. I feel it is relevant because celestial + strength is the solution for all those class builds that once had to decide whether to be damage based or survivability based and now they are both. Without strength runes I would not run celestial due to lack of DPS… I’d just run soldier or berserker and have to decide whether to be tanky or DPS, like I should have to.

Your point is somewhat justified.

Celestial gives 434 to all stats.

25 stacks of might gives 875 to power and condition damage.

The results of this combination is (without trait/rune/sigil bonuses):
Power – 2225
Toughness – 1350
Vitality – 1350
Crit Chance – 25%
Crit Damage – 179%
Condition Damage – 1309
Healing Power – 434

If you look at Berserker’s by itself (before trait/rune/sigil bonuses):
Power – 1838
Toughness – 916
Vitality – 1344
Crit Chance – 35%
Crit Damage – 180%
Condition Damage – 0
Healing Power – 0

If you look at Rabid by itself (before trait/rune/sigil bonsues):
Power – 916
Toughenss – 1559
Vitality – 916
Crit Chance – 35%
Crit Damage – 150%
Condition Damage – 922
Healing Power – 0

For professions that can maintain 25 stacks of might due to the 45% increase in duration. If you look at what would happen if these professions didn’t have the duration increase or extra 3 might stacks from strength runes 4 spec, it will reduce the duration by nearly 1/3 and 3 stacks. This means they would maintain about 15 stacks of might perminantly. If we look at the celestial might combination at 15 stacks we see the stats at:
Power – 1875
Toughness – 1350
Vitality – 1350
Crit Chance – 25%
Crit Damage – 179%
Condition Damage – 959
Healing Power – 434

That’s a difference in power and condi stats of 350. To illustrate what that actually means, it’s the equivalent of going 7 deep into a trait line (max is 6 of course). Of course beyond the impact of 10 might stacks, strength runes also add 175 power like all power runes (but that is less important in our comparison), and the other bonus of the strength rune is the near perminent 7% buff in damage.

So in laymans terms, the impact of strength runes when maximized can be equated to 350 power/350 condition damage from might bonuses + 175 power + 7% damage increase. It’s well known that power is the best scaling damage stat, and when combined with celestial + fury, you get a perfect storm of statistical bonuses.

I don’t believe I’ve seen any other runes that can provide an 875 stat increase and increase damage overall by 7%. In terms of classification by tier, I think you could put rune of strength on the so called ‘god’ tier.