Guild Wars 2

New Guardian Design

Virtues: All Virtues now have a 20 Second Cool down.

Talent Tree: Radiance
Roles: Conditions
Preferred Weapon: Scepter
Traits:
Justice is Blind: When Activating Justice, Near by Foes are Blinded. 900 Radius.
Renewed Justice: When Critically Striking a burning target, they become dazed. [10Sec Cd]
Radiant Power: Apply Burning Attacks Every 3 Strikes.

Tier 1:
Inner Fire: Heal for 15% of Burning damage done to enemies.
Fiery Wrath: Every 4 Range Attacks, and Every 2 Melee Attacks Trigger Burning.
Zealous Scepter: 10% More Condition damage, and 10% Burning duration wielding a scepter.

Tier 2
Kindled Zeal: Gain Condition Damage Based On Power. (10%)
Radiant Fire: Gain Zealots Flame on Critical Strike. Torch CD Reduced by 20%.
Retribution: Passive Burning is now always active, even while justice is on cool down.

Tier 3
Amplified Wrath: Burning Damage is Increased by 15%, and Duration is increased by 10%.
Expeditious Spirit: Weapons Apply Burning, Move 50% faster, and have 20% reduced Cool down rate.
Radiant Retaliation: When Critically struck, you gain [2 stacks of] Retaliation. [10 sec CD]

Talent Tree: Virtues
Roles: Boon Application
Preferred Weapon: Staff

Traits:
Inspired Virtues: Boons applied to yourself are also given to near by allies.
Virtue of Retribution: No Change.
Power Of The Virtuous: Boons last 20% Longer, And Virtues recharge is reduced by 5 seconds..

Tier 1
Unscathed Contender: Your boons last 20% Longer.
Healers Retaliation: You Gain Retaliation on a Heal.
Master of consecrations: 20% Reduced Recharge, 5 Second Duration.

Tier 2
Supreme Justice: You and allies gain an application of might and swiftness every 6 seconds.
Absolute resolution: Passive Heal increased by 300, and triggers every 2 seconds. Removes 3 Conditions from you and allies near by.
Honorable Staff: + 10% Power, and cool down of Staff abilities reduced by 20%.

Tier 3
Altruistic Healing: (Directly) Heals for 120 Hp every boon applied to you.
Battle Presence: Resolves passive is improved by 400 HP, and all healing ranges are increased by 300 Range.
Indomitable Courage: [No Change]

Talent Tree: Zeal
Roles: Direct Damage
Preferred Weapon: Great sword or Hammer
Traits:
Zealots Speed: Triggers every 3rd strike with Great Sword or Hammer.
Symbolic Exposure: Applies 10 Stacks of Invulnerability to foes when hit an a symbol ability.
Symbolic Power: 80% Chance when Controlled to Stability Aura.

Tier 1
(Fiery)Ancient Wrath: Damage with Two handed weapons Increased by 15%.
Right Handed Strength: 15% Critical strike with 1 hand weapons, 20% reduction with Sword and 10% Damage with Swords.
Retaliatory Subconscious: Gain Stability & Protection When CC’d. [15 Second CD.]

Tier 2
Wrath of Justice: Striking an enemy with Justice Activates Signet of Wrath.
Zealous Blade: 10% Damage, and heals for 200 HP Every Attack. Reduced CD by 20%.
Glacial Heart: Critical hits with Hammer Stuns Enemies. 20% Reduction to CD.

Tier 3
Permeating Wrath: 50% Chance on Critical Strike to deal 800 Damage.
Symbolic Avenger: 10% More damage Standing in symbols.
Perfect Inscriptions: [No Change]

Talent Tree: Honor
Roles: Healing
Preferred Weapon: Mace + Shield
Traits:
Holy Light: Healing Increased by 20%. Faithful Strike Heal range increased by 300 Yards.
Selfless Daring: End of Your Dodge Roll Heals near by Allies for 165 Hp.
Purity of Body Virtues of Resolve also increases Endurance regeneration by 15%. and vitality by 150.

Tier 1
Invigorated Bulwark: + 10% Healing 20% Cd Reduction for Mace Abilities.
Protective Reviver: 20% Revive Speed, Created a Bubble Absorbing Attacks.
Protectors Impact: When both Shield Abilities are on cool down, a symbol of protection is created.

Tier 2
Pure Of Heart: Aegis Heals 850 When Attacked:
Healing Ward (New): Healing Received is increased by 30% When aegis is active.
Empowering Might: When you critically strike Heal near yourself and near by allies for 450 HP, and gain might.

Tier 3
Pure Voice: Allies Affected By Shouts have Conditions 1 [Per Boon] Converted Into Boons
Writ Of Persistence: Symbols Last Longer, Are [150 radius] Larger And Heal Yourself and Allies for 550 Hp.
Monks Focus: Heal When using a meditation. Meditation CD reduced by 20%. Grants Regeneration to allies.

Talent Tree: Valor
Roles: Protection
Traits:
Valorous Defense: Virtue of Courage Now generates an Aegis every 15 Seconds.
Courageous Return: Virtue of Courage Recharges 20% fast.
Might of the protector: You Gain Might When you block and attack with aegis. + 10% Power.

Tier 1
Strength of the fallen: Cure 2 Conditions every 5 seconds
Smiters Condition: When you heal yourself or an ally, Remove 3 conditions. Deal 500 Damage if no conditions are cleanses or 1100 Damage if conditions are removed.
Focus Mastery: 20% Reduction in CD. Shield of Wrath duration + 5 Seconds. Generate Aegis on using focus ability.

Tier 2
Stalwart Defender: 35% Protection (always active). Shield CD reduced by 20%.
Strength in numbers: Grant 10% damage Reduction to allies, and 200 Toughness.
Communal Defenses: Grant aegis to allies when you block an attack or dodge roll an attack. 5S CD.

Tier 3
Force Of Will: Vitality Increased by 250 and + 500 Toughness
Shattered Aegis: When blocking an attack, return 800 damage and gain stability.
Retributive Armor: When being struck by an enemy, return 300 damage to them.

Talent Tree: Dragon Hunter
Dragon Hunter is in a good position, and will be left unchanged.

Trapping Changes

Trapping in the game has been massively reworked. Trapping will now last 3 minutes, and will be permanently kept at a location. A simple [F key] Usage will reset the traps. Activating a trap after being placed will preposition the trap to your current location. Traps will reset themselves if triggered by an enemy, but have a short [10 seconds] Cool down.

Traps will have significantly more damage, or effects.

Additionally, Traps will no longer be stack-able, and will have a limit of 600 radius from each other. If they traps are in this radius they will trigger, and do a “dud” animation, and will not trigger their effects against hostile enemies.

Weapon Changes

Mace:
Ability 1 : Attack 1,2 will now have ¼ Second Cast time. Light of the faithful [no longer faithful strike] Will now heal all allies with in 600 radius by 450 base healing. This will be a direct cast, and will not require any target to be hit, etc.
Ability 2: cool down reduced to 5 seconds.
Ability 3: Radius increased to 600.

Staff
Ability 1: Range increased to 1200. Now Grants a random Boom every 3rd Attack to near by allies with in 900 radius.
Ability 2: Detonation will now only take 6 seconds instead of 12.
Ability 4: Cast time reduced to 1 second.
Ability 5: Changed to teleport. 1200 Range.

Great Sword
Ability 2: Reduced Cool down to 3 Seconds.
Ability 3: cool down reduced to 10 seconds.
Ability 5: Reduced Cool down to 15 Seconds. Damage increased to 1100 Base.

Hammer
Ability 1: Symbol of protection now has a ¼ second Cast time
Ability 3: Reduced Cd to 8 seconds.
Ability 4: Cool down reduced to 5 seconds.
Ability 5: Duration increased to 10 seconds.

Sword
Ability 2: cool down reduced to 5 seconds
Ability 3: Duration increased to 5 seconds.

Healing Signets
Receive the light. Range of healing spray increased to 900. Initial Heal improved to 5250.
Shelter: Now Blocks yourself and allies for 5 seconds. Cd IS now 30 Seconds.
Litany of Wrath: Initial Heal is now 6500
Signet of Resolve: Now cures 3 conditions every 5 seconds. Healing reduced to 5500. 30 sec CD.

[Major Change] Concentrations have been reworked. Now Called Aura’s. Aura’s will provide boons to allies every few seconds.

Aura of Light: Passive: Regeneration and aegis every 8 seconds.
Aura of Might: Might and fury every 8 seconds.
Aura of Judgment: Quickness and Swiftness every 8 seconds.
Aura of Redemption: protection and Resistence every 8 seconds.

Meditations: cool downs are set to 20 seconds.
Shouts: cool downs set to 15 Seconds.
[Major Change] Spiritual weapons: Removed, Replaced Blessed Weapons.

Holy Hammer: Hits now heal your allies for 150 HP.
Flaming Sword: Hits have a 50% chance deal burning damage
Bow of repentance: Hits have a 50% change to cleanse 2 conditions of allies. 600 radius.
Shield of Protection: Grants Retaliation every 6 seconds.

Ultimate:
Feel my Wrath: Cool down reduced to 10 seconds. Now Activates on a melee critical strike.
Renewed Focus: Virtues are reset. 3 seconds of invulnerability, and removes 10 conditions.
Signet of the courage: Heals allies by 700 every 3 seconds. Activate to heal all allies for 8500 hp. 90 second CD. ¼ Second Cast time. Passive heal is always active.

As I said before Im generally against powercreep. You said you wanted to make melee guards and tank guards more viable, but why don’t you try nerfing other op stuff, planning a full class rework anyways, instead of adding more op stuff to a class that doesn’t need it.
Regardless, I respect your balance of powercreep, but this is what is not justifiable under any circumstances.
-Signet of resolve. Sry but sounds a lot like: I don’t like conditions, so im just going to remove them from the game entirely. Your approach to condi is really out of place. Unless ofc you wish to give every class burn on autoattack, but in that case neither condi application nor condi removal would require any skill at all.
-Receive the light. Cd decrease is not ok. Healing skills with that short of a cooldown make things much too easy. You may want to create a support bunker, but I don’t think you want to create healbot ele 2.0
-Litany of wrath: initial heal is wayyy too high. And the fatal heal is really only ok in the current meta where that 50% are just going to melt again.
-Signet of courage. Instant casts are to be avoided. It cant be countered
-Feel my wrath. Effectively 20% quickness uptime, untraited and without boon duration. Do you really want this?
-Utility: Reducing cooldowns is ok, but pls consider cd-traits and maybe not so drastic. Stick with 10-25% for now. Also: no ressing and stomping from sanctuary or in sanctuary. The last thing we need is a completely safe, undenyable ress.
-Strenght of faith. See: signet of resolve. Really, you don’t have to remove conditions. Especially since I believed you just said they should be removed more actively.
-Stalwart defender. Protection is what? Im gonna pretend to not have read it, you cant just have written that.
-Supreme justice: no, you cant just put burning on all of your attacks, thats just too easy.
-Absolute resolution: You want to heal yourself for 500health/sec permanently and passively?
Other people have to use menders gear, perma regeneration and a spirit of nature for that.
-Symbolic avenger. Stability is an awful boon and should only be applied in very short timeframes and on long cooldowns. It should exclusively be used to secure a stomp or a burst, never as a passive cc-countermeasure.
-Invigorated bulwark: healing effectivess is a bad idea, use healing power to respect individual skill scaling. And not more than 10%
-Pure voice. You are a boon application class. Boon stripping has no place here.
-Banish. YAY. More hard cc spam
-Ring of warding: You don’t appear to realise how powerful these abilities are. Cooldown is very fine as it is.
Feel free to disagree with me, but this is simply too much. Way too much. If every class got changed like this it would turn the game into a spamfest. You don’t have to agree with my approach of nerfhammering either, but pls admit that this is powercreep and nothing but powercreep.

Oh and: don’t take it personal. I do this to every forum idea I come across that seems like someone is trying to have their cake and eat it too.

Asrat.2645:

As I said before Im generally against powercreep. You said you wanted to make melee guards and tank guards more viable, but why don’t you try nerfing other op stuff, planning a full class rework anyways, instead of adding more op stuff to a class that doesn’t need it.

Power Creep is like adding gas on fire, the more larger it (the fire) gets the more likely you are to get burnt.

I have a firm stance against massive amounts of power creep. In fact in general i believe a game should be composed of something like 80-85% of horizontal Progression, and 15-20% Vertical. I Put it in a condition which is The moment a new player cannot compete with a vet player is the moment there is to much

For the healing

I don’t agree, I want every ability to be very hard to choose between. the condition i give for that is “constant changing”. When you change abilities a lot, you know your classes are solid (provided they are not broken which is an issue of a small change).

I want all heals to heal around 7000-9000 HP. However the lower end i want to offer some sort of protection to that. I could advocate for a lower (5000-7000) Range, but with the current speed of the game i think the will really be better at the higher 7000-9000 range.

Hard Counter CC (Stability)

This is absolutely needed in the current meta. Having ground effects you have to stand in for 5-10 seconds is a good solution to melee problems. It puts them at a disadvantage to range (where caster/ranger comes in) while making them free of cc troubles. The real way to do this is to rework the entire system, which would require the devs to do a full pass of the pvp system, but i don’t think they will be open to that much change where as the class reworks are just value changes for the most part.

protection
I believe there should be a reduction to protection, but a permanent application from guardian for it. I do not support 30% Protection rates, i think they should be at 15%, but at the same time i think in some cases they should be 30% (like shield usage).

For a guard to have perma 30% i am ok with, if he is using a shield.

Absolute resolution
My approach to the tank aspects of this class was to move it to have a dependable heal. 1650 HP / 3 seconds. is not 500 HP a second. Its 1650 every 3 seconds. The heal is strong for an intended reason; it was designed this way to make the class depend on healing to be tanky, as opposed to DR.

Larger amounts of DR with higher Healing rates is one of those things i call “the deadly combinations” and i generally stay away from them. So i am advocating that the over all armor of this class is around (if 4300 is what i have now, + another 1500 with protection, then the target tank of this class is around 4750). This means the over all tank of the class with the reduction (if i get what i want for protection boon changes) will actually be getting a DR nerf, but a heal buff.

Additionally, i want to mention that if this heal is to strong in testing, we can look at lowering it a little (to say maybe 1250 or possibly every 6 seconds). Every 3 seconds is a long time you can be bursted in that amount of time.

I think that sums up most of it.

Okay I was refraining from posting on the forums until I got more experience in pvp cause of a analysis I’m now ashamed of the progames that zero counterplay did (your guardians ign translates to kitten on the forums) and I wanted to get better before responding to said post or anything on the forums but this triggered me as an ex-guildie of yours Anari.

You have to change alot of other factors of other classes and the skills themselves to make this kinda balance. At least inform us that you are doing a rebalance of all classes in said OP.

I’ve used receive the light in a super fun build before, the unusable of it is cause of a 32 second cd when buffed (anymore then 24 is pretty laughable) the sustain provided by this skill on a 15 second cd(-20% when traited) is huge, so huge.

I like rf changes but some ppl do the same now by running leadership rune.

Signet of courage, with so much sustain now, are we going WoW style with this being a anti burst trinket?

cop and sc, crazy spam utility.

Purging flames good buff for burn guardian.

Hallowed ground, is this on top of 12 seconds of stability?

Save yourselves on 30 seconds sounds fun, gives us some decent sustain, speed, protection.

spiritweapons are still not viable.

onto traits, stalwart defender. OP as eles will tell you, cant be permanent needs to have the option to be peeled off with corruption. rest of this tree will not change then 2-2-2 path.

virtues, master of consecrations. in combination with hallowed ground holy kitten thats a good chunk of mid in foefire.
supreme justice, okay gives us less unstable condi output(also more cripple application if u trait that)
change to absolute resolution adds kitteng crazy sustain.
permeating wrath- so ur saying that passive procs of justic appear every hit in an aoe and stack 3? right now thats 3k burning dots every hit.

radiance
its not alot better then it was other then the gm traits. im really sure ppl dont wanna be blinded every 2 hits on us.

zeal
symbolic power- pretty sure symbols already provide boons to allies, just symbols arent as good without the honor trait to increase symbol size, that trait is in the worst position.
is the fiery wrath under zeal supposed to be under radiance? okay.
expeditious spirit – wow, uhm give range pls cause that could be op with hammer. sword mebe cause that does del somewhat decent dmg.

honor- purity of body- id like free 200 vit.
writ of persistance – perma regen with hammer, nice
mace- heals 200 on autos, does this scale?

900 range on mace autos, lol.
shield buffs nice.

mace/shield with scepter focus probably.

OVERALL, i ignored most power based specs, cause this mainly was about improving guardian condi and bunker, affected those 2 miles more then power related builds. Its a little too over the top compared to auramancer, basically we could theoretically run perma stability and need 3 guys to out dmg ridiculous passive healing.

Not a fan personally, even though I love guardian and want it to be meta, I don’t like needing numbers rather then skill to remove an obstacle. I can go on TS tomorrow night if you want to talk about this further anari…

EDIT: oops forgot about sanctuary, with said buffs need to change the skill to prevent point capture contribution while casting.

…
Ok. Math. If I try using some of the passive healing sources, like mace, virtue of courage and altruistic healing, additionally receive the light. And assume I am just autoattcking and occasionally searing symbols.
I will have an effective health of 79000 over 30sec. That not considering aegis, aegis traits, protection or any boons, utility or elite skills, the benefits of stability and permanent cleanses, virtue actives, traits for damage reduction or toughness…
And that is on a a marauder. Since I dont know how well your stuff scales with healing power.

On a druid I calculated 60k effective health/30 sec all in. Including uninterrupted celestial avatar, on a shoutbow mender.

Taking into account the stability, perma protection and utility skills you should be easily able to outtank the current ele healbot on a marauder guard. And still pump out massive boons and healing to allies around you. Not forgetting about the damage ofc.

keep the feedback coming, they will help me tailor the skills to where we are all in agreement.

Fire on hit is not 3k, its 200 something damage a hit so adding it in would be like 3000 on 10 stacks.

I do 5-6k Ticks right now with my burn build, its really strong, but very quish but almost all of that damage is in 7-9 talents. so that tells me the talents need a buff to bring up the specs to be competitive.

condi guardian gets strong when you build it purposely for condi damage (it will be something like what the current necro is but a little weaker, about 100-200k less damage a game). So it wont be op, but it will hurt because the damage comes faster then necro damage.

mace autos are not 900 range, the third skill (which is a heal) no long is an melee attack, its just a strait cast heal (like turning on f2 active but frequent)

i will be doing reworks of all classes to the best of my ability, and tailoring my positions based on feedback presented here (or relative class post)

Asrat.2645:

…
Ok. Math. If I try using some of the passive healing sources, like mace, virtue of courage and altruistic healing, additionally receive the light. And assume I am just autoattcking and occasionally searing symbols.
I will have an effective health of 79000 over 30sec. That not considering aegis, aegis traits, protection or any boons, utility or elite skills, the benefits of stability and permanent cleanses, virtue actives, traits for damage reduction or toughness…
And that is on a a marauder. Since I dont know how well your stuff scales with healing power.

On a druid I calculated 60k effective health/30 sec all in. Including uninterrupted celestial avatar, on a shoutbow mender.

Taking into account the stability, perma protection and utility skills you should be easily able to outtank the current ele healbot on a marauder guard. And still pump out massive boons and healing to allies around you. Not forgetting about the damage ofc.

Will you Post your metric Data? I would like to see the math. I guesstimated the buff changes (because i was expecting testing if the devs took this into consideration).

Additionally, if the guard is at 80k and the druid is at 60k, i am ok with it but it may need some reduction.. the reason for this is because a druid is ranged, and a guard is not, so he will have to run along chasing people, and is more liable to be cc’d if he does not have symbols out to protect vs it, so the slight increase of healing is merited. Though id like to see your math.

Math it as follows:

Base Abilities
750 Hp Every 1 Second = 750 HPS (225,000HP Per every 5 minutes)
1600 every 1 second = 1600 HPS (32,000HP Per every 5 minutes)
1500 Hp Ever 3 seconds (Ultimate) = 500 HPS (150,000 Per every 5 minutes)

Special Abilities:
Hold the line: 2200 HPS over 7 seconds = 315 HPS ( 3150HP Per every 5 minutes)
Save yourselves: 4000 over 13 seconds = 308 HPS ( 3100HP per every 5 minutes)

Total: 4475 Regeneration / Second (like if you burn everything together)
Over a 5 Minute Match: 413,250
Over a 10 Minute Match: 826,500

This by far does not seem to be OP

Edit: i forgot to add Resolve, which is another 250 HPS, 25,000 per 5 minutes, or 50,00 HP for 10. This means that The guardian will actually be lower then a elementalist (which i do 1.1-1.3m heals a game with).

Lets assume we buff it 40% (30% for the talent buff, + another 10% to make sure we are have breathing room for mistakes in math).

That means

Total Regeneration peak: 6265
Total Healing per 5 minutes:578,550
Total Healing per 10 minutes:1,157,100

This means the target 30% i added, Will be just shy of what the current elementalist is healing for!

With all due respect, your suggested changes are all buffs and I fear what ideas you would bring to other professions when you start creating reworks of them. I am strongly against power creep and these changes will buff guardians to high heaven (and other professions if you decide to do them too)

example:

Shelter: Cast: Instant, Heals 6500 Hp, and blocks attack to you and allies for 3 seconds.

Why is this change even necessary in the first place? It’s meta in WvW.

food for thought: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Poll-Power-creep-vs-nerf-bat-vs/6019508

Anari.2137:

Math it as follows:

Base Abilities
750 Hp Every 1 Second = 750 HPS (225,000HP Per every 5 minutes)
1600 every 1 second = 1600 HPS (32,000HP Per every 5 minutes)
1500 Hp Ever 3 seconds (Ultimate) = 500 HPS (150,000 Per every 5 minutes)

Special Abilities:
Hold the line: 2200 HPS over 7 seconds = 315 HPS ( 3150HP Per every 5 minutes)
Save yourselves: 4000 over 13 seconds = 308 HPS ( 3100HP per every 5 minutes)

Total: 4475 Regeneration / Second (like if you burn everything together)
Over a 5 Minute Match: 413,250
Over a 10 Minute Match: 826,500

This by far does not seem to be OP

Edit: i forgot to add Resolve, which is another 250 HPS, 25,000 per 5 minutes, or 50,00 HP for 10. This means that The guardian will actually be lower then a elementalist (which i do 1.1-1.3m heals a game with).

Lets assume we buff it 40% (30% for the talent buff, + another 10% to make sure we are have breathing room for mistakes in math).

That means

Total Regeneration peak: 6265
Total Healing per 5 minutes:578,550
Total Healing per 10 minutes:1,157,100

This means the target 30% i added, Will be just shy of what the current elementalist is healing for!

I assume you are still calculating with a marauder? Add healing power and you will boost this to levels we cant even understand yet.
If you compare to elementalist pls remember that the heals to allies are involved.
Now say ‘virtue of courage’.
This can also become so much more with dodge-roll healings, with sigils and runes, with quickness which allows for more mace autoattcks, if you can apply above average boons to allies…
Recently I did calculations for a guard with absolute maximum everything in healing. Assuming that he would burn all cd’s, make perfect use of each and every skill, in menders.
What I came up with was 90k. Im not sure if 30sec or 60sec, but that is already a very huge number. And its pretty much what you now came up with with almost no effort at all.
You said 4475 regeneration/sec. That is 44750/10 sec. 268500/min. 134250/30sec
2685000/10 min Im not sure where you got the 4475 from, but assuming the math leading to this number is correct, you miss a 3x multiplier on your total healing/10 minutes.
Its also 2,5 times higher than the elementalist.
But even if it wasnt: the elementalist in its current state is completely awful and rightfully hated. No class should do what the elemntalist does, or be even worse.

If I may tell you my approach on bunkers: Bunkers should not be defined by healing. They should have access to short framed blocks and partial damage denial in order to eat bursts, but having to temporarely sacrifice their ability to do anything else besides tanking. So a bunker under aggro can hold out, a bunker unattacked can buff. But they cant do both.
Massive access to healing only means its more forgiving for the bunker to make a mistake, and the enemy team is basically forced to burst them down instead of being able to deal damage over time.
A bunker however should be better against bursts and worse against sustained damage.
Healing effects should also help you in combat, but not be able to define it. The only skill that is ok to heal for a major amount outside of a true healer build is your healing skill.
Your 4475k healing/sec, plus protection make you able to take about 6k damage/sec without a notice. That is probably higher than the average dps a lot of classes can expect for spvp.

I would advise you to listen to bravery here, not to me. There is someone who has spent a lot more time with guardian balance than I have and probably than you have.

I would recommend at this point you stop commenting on the math behind these classes.

Because you can do 4475 HPS in a burst, does not mean you will always do 4475 HPS. You forgot to calculate Cooldowns.

So 4475 HPS will happen every 30 seconds, If you decide to pop everything in your kitten nal.

Other wise the Heal is something like 700-800 (from basic ability every attacks) + the 600-800 from Resolve, every 3 seconds.

I gave you accurate math with the cooldowns calculated.

TheBravery.9615:

With all due respect, your suggested changes are all buffs and I fear what ideas you would bring to other professions when you start creating reworks of them. I am strongly against power creep and these changes will buff guardians to high heaven (and other professions if you decide to do them too)

example:

Shelter: Cast: Instant, Heals 6500 Hp, and blocks attack to you and allies for 3 seconds.

Why is this change even necessary in the first place? It’s meta in WvW.

food for thought: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Poll-Power-creep-vs-nerf-bat-vs/6019508

If a Elementalist and druid do 800k to 1.5m Heals a game, Is it power creep to bring a guardians healing in line? No. Its “Equalizing”.

Jeez…. I’m happy Anet never takes suggestions, power creep up the kitten

‘Equalizing’ would be to bring elemntalists healing down to 0,8 million and guards up to 0,8 million. Giving the guardian the same amount or more is powercreep by definition.
The 4475 was a number you came up with.
I will do accurate amth for you the second you give me a healing power scalar to work with. After that i will create a sage guardian that is so op it actually rips the causal continuum and deletes all non-guardians from the game even without the balance patch ever going live.
Look: I really want to help you with this, but in order to do so you must face facts: What you are suggesting is completely out of place. Just bringing the weaker specs on an ele’s level would be bad enough, but at least that would mean inter-class balance.
But you are actually exceeding this by far and instead creating a god class.

Another tip here: think of three basic builds. Each of this builds has one clear strenght: lest say boon application, tanking and condition damage.
All of these builds are allowed to excel in their respective area, but they are exclusive and cant do anything else.
That is called balance.

Anari.2137:

TheBravery.9615:

With all due respect, your suggested changes are all buffs and I fear what ideas you would bring to other professions when you start creating reworks of them. I am strongly against power creep and these changes will buff guardians to high heaven (and other professions if you decide to do them too)

example:

Shelter: Cast: Instant, Heals 6500 Hp, and blocks attack to you and allies for 3 seconds.

Why is this change even necessary in the first place? It’s meta in WvW.

food for thought: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Poll-Power-creep-vs-nerf-bat-vs/6019508

If a Elementalist and druid do 800k to 1.5m Heals a game, Is it power creep to bring a guardians healing in line? No. Its “Equalizing”.

Yes, it is powercreep because you’re using elementalists and druids as the benchmark for healing.

edit/ Also, it’s difficult to achieve balance relative to other professions (inter-profession perspective). When I made that poll, I was talking out of an intra-profession perspective (e.g. traits/skills within a profession).

Inter-profession balance is much more difficult to achieve because the professions have different mechanics. You can’t simply equalize maximum healing per minute to 800k for every profession and say you’re done-no. You have to account for every variable in the equation. Do elementalists and druids have high healing? yes. Do they need changes? yes. Should every other professions be upped to match them? Hell no.

[quote=6090913;TheBravery.9615:]

Let’s make a build!

I’m gonna go classic burn guardian with a twist!

Let’s do a shout burn guardian!

I’m going to trait for shouts with a Sage’s amulet. All these shouts at 24 second cooldown, but feel my Wrath is 20 seconds and receive the light is 12 seconds! Each cleanses 3 condis, so I will never have to worry about conditions ever! Maybe even a soldier’s rune for 4 condis AoE! Who needs ele cleanses anyway.

But the burn will be fun! In virtues, I’ll take Supreme Justice and Permeating Wrath. My sword auto chain will apply 15 stacks of burning! But wait! My quickness uptime will be massive with honorable staff (no staff required) and traited shouts!

But of course, I’ll take Radiance too! You gotta get that extra burn duration AND damage! But the best part? 1 out of every 3 hits will be affected by blindness! I shine bright like a diamond! Or even the sun!

The alternative for people who don’t need AoE cleanses is meditations! With permanent protection and really low cool down heals from traited meditatons, I’ll never die!

Who needs dragonhunter anyway? I’ll become my own burning dragon! The burndian!

The suggested heals would be too OP.

Shelter healing increase plus AoE block is a bit too much.

SoR: 2 condis every 5 seconds? I hope you were kidding with that.

Receive the light could use some CD reduction but 15 sec is too low for an AoE heal.

what’s even more hilarious is his “buffed” version of the elite signet heals for less than any actual heals.

30% of max HP for a guardian is only like 5k health…on a 90 sec cooldown.

Darknicrofia.2604:

what’s even more hilarious is his “buffed” version of the elite signet heals for less than any actual heals.

30% of max HP for a guardian is only like 5k health…on a 90 sec cooldown.

That elite signet needs a rework. Currently its useless in every gamemode and Renewed focus is always a much better option.

Not that high of a priority, guardians’ elite skills are actually quite useful. Every class has at least 1 useless elite, guardian and more specifically, base guardian has a TON of things that needs reworked before a single unless elite skill.

Shroomer.8645:

Let’s make a build!

The alternative for people who don’t need AoE cleanses is meditations! With permanent protection and really low cool down heals from traited meditatons, I’ll never die!

Wait what… since when meditations grant perma protection?
Perhaps you meant fury and even then it is not permanent.

Rodzynald.5897:

Shroomer.8645:

Let’s make a build!

The alternative for people who don’t need AoE cleanses is meditations! With permanent protection and really low cool down heals from traited meditatons, I’ll never die!

Wait what… since when meditations grant perma protection? Perhaps you meant fury, and even then it is not permanent.

‘Stalwart Defender: Protection is now Permanent for you. 20% Reduction to Shield Abilities.’

Not the meditations, but this trait.

Asrat.2645:

Rodzynald.5897:

Shroomer.8645:

Let’s make a build!

The alternative for people who don’t need AoE cleanses is meditations! With permanent protection and really low cool down heals from traited meditatons, I’ll never die!

Wait what… since when meditations grant perma protection? Perhaps you meant fury, and even then it is not permanent.

‘Stalwart Defender: Protection is now Permanent for you. 20% Reduction to Shield Abilities.’

Not the meditations, but this trait.

It is: “Stalwart Defender: Gain additional toughness while wielding a shield. Shield ability recharge is reduced.”

I looked it up in the game a while ago. Though perma damage reduction while wielding a shield instead of toughness would be much, much better.

Rodzynald.5897:

Asrat.2645:

Rodzynald.5897:

Shroomer.8645:

Let’s make a build!

The alternative for people who don’t need AoE cleanses is meditations! With permanent protection and really low cool down heals from traited meditatons, I’ll never die!

Wait what… since when meditations grant perma protection? Perhaps you meant fury, and even then it is not permanent.

‘Stalwart Defender: Protection is now Permanent for you. 20% Reduction to Shield Abilities.’

Not the meditations, but this trait.

It is: “Stalwart Defender: Gain additional toughness while wielding a shield. Shield ability recharge is reduced.”

I looked it up in the game a while ago. Though perma damage reduction while wielding a shield instead of toughness would be much, much better.

Did you read the op? ^^
and I dont think anybody want permanent protection. Plain damage reduction is the laziest way to create a tank possible. Even worse than healing.

Oh right, we are talking about what guardian could be ; _ ;
I ain’t the sharpest tool in the shed.

EDIT:
Yes, I must agree. Having perma prot is a sweet spot though… I guess it should be a guardian exclusive for obvious reasons.
You know, we must use hammer and keep auto attacking but we get that sweet 100% prot uptime for us and our allies who stand in the symbol, that would be quite reasonable considering that we are GUARDIANS.
I just wish that protection could stack instead of pulsing and keeping there for one second. Though it can be achieved with rune of earth, It should be built in to stack.

Rodzynald.5897:

Oh right, we are talking about what guardian could be ; _ ;
I ain’t the sharpest tool in the shed.

EDIT:
Yes, I must agree. Having perma prot is a sweet spot though… I guess it should be a guardian exclusive for obvious reasons.
You know, we must use hammer and keep auto attacking but we get that sweet 100% prot uptime for us and our allies who stand in the symbol, that would be quite reasonable considering that we are GUARDIANS.
I just wish that protection could stack instead of pulsing and keeping there for one second. Though it can be achieved with rune of earth, It should be built in to stack.

It was my intent to Buff Burn Guardian, and Buff the condi Cleanse. The reason for this is because it will offset the necromancers damage rates, as well as other condition classes.

Lets do some math so you can understand the situation a little more.

Lets say assume the following are the norm (Which they should be).

- Necromancers Apply between 900-1100 Conditions a game
- Necromancers deal 400-500k Damage, and Condition Damage a Game (around 800-900k total damage)
- There is no dependable cleanse in the game or counter to condition damage
- Passive Cleanses are weak, generally being 1-2 every 10 seconds
- Active Cleanses are generally 5-10 cleanses, but have around 40 second CD’s

If we assume the above be true, then we learn the following

If 1000 conditions = 400k Damage, then 500 conditions = 200k damage, and 250 conditions = 100k damage.

If you apply cleanses to 50% of the conditions applied by a necro, you will reduce the over all damage of the class by 50% Or 200k damage. This will move the necromancer into a position of 600k damage a game, which puts it slightly higher then other classes. Additionally it helps shift the desire to build power builds, as well as conditions builds.

So by upping the condition cleansing in the game (not to much) via 1-2 classes we will improve the counter play verse conditions.

Think of it like this

Condition cleanse = damage reduction vs conditions

At the moment you think of it as

Condition cleanse = Necromancer does no damage
But this is not true, as all necro skills have impact damage on it, and its doing exceptionally well (in fact if we took condi’s off necros, they’d be 10% short of perfect damage rates).

Rodzynald.5897:

Oh right, we are talking about what guardian could be ; _ ;
I ain’t the sharpest tool in the shed.

EDIT:
Yes, I must agree. Having perma prot is a sweet spot though… I guess it should be a guardian exclusive for obvious reasons.
You know, we must use hammer and keep auto attacking but we get that sweet 100% prot uptime for us and our allies who stand in the symbol, that would be quite reasonable considering that we are GUARDIANS.
I just wish that protection could stack instead of pulsing and keeping there for one second. Though it can be achieved with rune of earth, It should be built in to stack.

Im of the opinion that there should be two types of protection, one that is group applied (10-15%) and one that is self applied (33%).

The reason for this is because some specs (like melee builds) need more reduction to deal with all the cleave and stuff, where some range builds having it are insanely op (like auramancers).

Thus, im of the opinion that the aura mancer buff provided should be 10-15%, not 30.

Lastly,

1500 Toughness (Base) = 33% Damage reduction.
If you have more then the base amount, its less toughness (down to something like 700).

Darknicrofia.2604:

Not that high of a priority, guardians’ elite skills are actually quite useful. Every class has at least 1 useless elite, guardian and more specifically, base guardian has a TON of things that needs reworked before a single unless elite skill.

Guardian Elites were changed in this post.

For example, the heal became instant cast, lower cooldown, and 50% Of Max Hp.

So basically guardian using marauders will have insane burn damage, the same healing as an ele using clerics, permanent protection at 30%, enough condi cleanse to be virtually immune….. so God mode pretty much. Oh and why does a heavy armor class get 30% while ele a light armor get 10-15? It can’t be because of range as an ele using dagger is melee range. Did you think of how that would affect core ele such as leveling up before you can use tempest. Unlike other light armors it doesn’t have stealth, clones, or minions it survives by boons and sustain

Keadron.9570:

So basically guardian using marauders will have insane burn damage, the same healing as an ele using clerics, permanent protection at 30%, enough condi cleanse to be virtually immune….. so God mode pretty much. Oh and why does a heavy armor class get 30% while ele a light armor get 10-15? It can’t be because of range as an ele using dagger is melee range. Did you think of how that would affect core ele such as leveling up before you can use tempest. Unlike other light armors it doesn’t have stealth, clones, or minions it survives by boons and sustain

At the moment with my guardian burn build, I do 5-6k Ticks. However, that being said there is a huge disadvantage being played here. Necros do way more damage. Think of it like this.

Burning is an alpha strike that can be cleansed (if your fast enough).

Anari.2137:

Keadron.9570:

So basically guardian using marauders will have insane burn damage, the same healing as an ele using clerics, permanent protection at 30%, enough condi cleanse to be virtually immune….. so God mode pretty much. Oh and why does a heavy armor class get 30% while ele a light armor get 10-15? It can’t be because of range as an ele using dagger is melee range. Did you think of how that would affect core ele such as leveling up before you can use tempest. Unlike other light armors it doesn’t have stealth, clones, or minions it survives by boons and sustain

At the moment with my guardian burn build, I do 5-6k Ticks. However, that being said there is a huge disadvantage being played here. Necros do way more damage. Think of it like this.

Burning is an alpha strike that can be cleansed (if your fast enough).

So because necro puts out more condi pressure the answer is God mode for guardian? They are also a light armor class, slow, not great at healing and vulnerable to focus fire. Using one classes strengths while completely ignoring their weaknesses doesn’t justify a complete overpower of your favorite class.
BTW you completely bypassed my original questions

Keadron.9570:

Anari.2137:

Keadron.9570:

So basically guardian using marauders will have insane burn damage, the same healing as an ele using clerics, permanent protection at 30%, enough condi cleanse to be virtually immune….. so God mode pretty much. Oh and why does a heavy armor class get 30% while ele a light armor get 10-15? It can’t be because of range as an ele using dagger is melee range. Did you think of how that would affect core ele such as leveling up before you can use tempest. Unlike other light armors it doesn’t have stealth, clones, or minions it survives by boons and sustain

At the moment with my guardian burn build, I do 5-6k Ticks. However, that being said there is a huge disadvantage being played here. Necros do way more damage. Think of it like this.

Burning is an alpha strike that can be cleansed (if your fast enough).

So because necro puts out more condi pressure the answer is God mode for guardian? They are also a light armor class, slow, not great at healing and vulnerable to focus fire. Using one classes strengths while completely ignoring their weaknesses doesn’t justify a complete overpower of your favorite class.
BTW you completely bypassed my original questions

Buffing Burn to be competitive to other specs is not God Mode, its called balance.
You cannot build burn guard, and get the healing these specs have, because the specs you need for healing is 3 specific ones, 2 of which are different the ones burn guard depends on, thus its not possible to build a guard with the healing potential, and damage rates in that capacity.

I havent ignored anything, I choose not to start a debate of trivia positions.

Anari.2137:

Keadron.9570:

Anari.2137:

Keadron.9570:

So basically guardian using marauders will have insane burn damage, the same healing as an ele using clerics, permanent protection at 30%, enough condi cleanse to be virtually immune….. so God mode pretty much. Oh and why does a heavy armor class get 30% while ele a light armor get 10-15? It can’t be because of range as an ele using dagger is melee range. Did you think of how that would affect core ele such as leveling up before you can use tempest. Unlike other light armors it doesn’t have stealth, clones, or minions it survives by boons and sustain

At the moment with my guardian burn build, I do 5-6k Ticks. However, that being said there is a huge disadvantage being played here. Necros do way more damage. Think of it like this.

Burning is an alpha strike that can be cleansed (if your fast enough).

So because necro puts out more condi pressure the answer is God mode for guardian? They are also a light armor class, slow, not great at healing and vulnerable to focus fire. Using one classes strengths while completely ignoring their weaknesses doesn’t justify a complete overpower of your favorite class.
BTW you completely bypassed my original questions

Buffing Burn to be competitive to other specs is not God Mode, its called balance.
You cannot build burn guard, and get the healing these specs have, because the specs you need for healing is 3 specific ones, 2 of which are different the ones burn guard depends on, thus its not possible to build a guard with the healing potential, and damage rates in that capacity.

I havent ignored anything, I choose not to start a debate of trivia positions.

There used to be a dalance design philosophy that gw2 used, which was: you can never have it all. You were never able to take all of the traits that would make your build perfect. That is really the type of balance we need to strive for if we want to balance the elite specs.

Salamander.2504:

Anari.2137:

Keadron.9570:

Anari.2137:

Keadron.9570:

So basically guardian using marauders will have insane burn damage, the same healing as an ele using clerics, permanent protection at 30%, enough condi cleanse to be virtually immune….. so God mode pretty much. Oh and why does a heavy armor class get 30% while ele a light armor get 10-15? It can’t be because of range as an ele using dagger is melee range. Did you think of how that would affect core ele such as leveling up before you can use tempest. Unlike other light armors it doesn’t have stealth, clones, or minions it survives by boons and sustain

At the moment with my guardian burn build, I do 5-6k Ticks. However, that being said there is a huge disadvantage being played here. Necros do way more damage. Think of it like this.

Burning is an alpha strike that can be cleansed (if your fast enough).

So because necro puts out more condi pressure the answer is God mode for guardian? They are also a light armor class, slow, not great at healing and vulnerable to focus fire. Using one classes strengths while completely ignoring their weaknesses doesn’t justify a complete overpower of your favorite class.
BTW you completely bypassed my original questions

Buffing Burn to be competitive to other specs is not God Mode, its called balance.
You cannot build burn guard, and get the healing these specs have, because the specs you need for healing is 3 specific ones, 2 of which are different the ones burn guard depends on, thus its not possible to build a guard with the healing potential, and damage rates in that capacity.

I havent ignored anything, I choose not to start a debate of trivia positions.

There used to be a dalance design philosophy that gw2 used, which was: you can never have it all. You were never able to take all of the traits that would make your build perfect. That is really the type of balance we need to strive for if we want to balance the elite specs.

It’s a good position.

Having choices, suggests more then 1 role for a class.
Thus you get multiple specs.
Having every class do the same roles, robs the class of real identity (other wise it’d just be the same thing with different graphics).

Guaranteed Replies the thread.

Yes, I realize I’m replying too.

Salamander.2504:

There used to be a balance design philosophy that gw2 used, which was: you can never have it all. You were never able to take all of the traits that would make your build perfect. That is really the type of balance we need to strive for if we want to balance the elite specs.

Have it all is not possible, it would imply finite conditions. Have it all int he application of every role is not possible it would imply there is a healer thief build, and well that does not exist.

This is fairy tell idea, and it should of never been attempted to begin with. it waters down the game being it repetitive, It robs classes of identity, and it robs the game of balance.

1. you buff burns all classes with burns get buffed unless the application of burn stacks increases (which Anet down toned a few patches ago for pretty much everyone across the board in the last big balance patch)
2. Guardains are protectors as thier ideal image DH is is a Protector but its focused on slaying those that bring harm and prevent it before a death happens , very basic or unsophisticated in terms of comfort, convenience, or efficiency pouring so much strenght into finishing to job quickly is also a form of protecting.
3. the way Anet see Guardains image is not as a healer so they will always be Sub-standard healers but amazing supporters coupled with damage.

from reading your ideas , giving these types of buffs and changes to a heavy armour class is a BAD idea in a whole game sense if you add up all the ideas you are spewing out the Game will be back to the Bunker meta where condis do not work and damage is reduced so much the visual of the game would be like watching two squirrels in a mexican stand off (note i said two because the third guy still can’t do anything)

Even if the changes were reasonable, there is so much going on here that no one would ever even TRY to implement this stuff. Anet hasn’t made these many changes to the class over the last 3 years.

There is dozens or hundreds of changes be suggested and not a single explanation why for any of them. I just can’t see where this is going, even if it’s a serious attempt to discuss what Guardians could be.

Here is my feedback. Start over. Beging with the premise of why you think Guardian needs to change and suggest no more than 8 changes to accomplish that.

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

1. you buff burns all classes with burns get buffed unless the application of burn stacks increases (which Anet down toned a few patches ago for pretty much everyone across the board in the last big balance patch)
2. Guardains are protectors as thier ideal image DH is is a Protector but its focused on slaying those that bring harm and prevent it before a death happens , very basic or unsophisticated in terms of comfort, convenience, or efficiency pouring so much strenght into finishing to job quickly is also a form of protecting.
3. the way Anet see Guardains image is not as a healer so they will always be Sub-standard healers but amazing supporters coupled with damage.

from reading your ideas , giving these types of buffs and changes to a heavy armour class is a BAD idea in a whole game sense if you add up all the ideas you are spewing out the Game will be back to the Bunker meta where condis do not work and damage is reduced so much the visual of the game would be like watching two squirrels in a mexican stand off (note i said two because the third guy still can’t do anything)

If that was true guardians would not have 3 talent specs with massive healing and applications to it.

Obtena.7952:

Even if the changes were reasonable, there is so much going on here that no one would ever even TRY to implement this stuff. Anet hasn’t made these many changes to the class over the last 3 years.

There is dozens or hundreds of changes be suggested and not a single explanation why for any of them. I just can’t see where this is going, even if it’s a serious attempt to discuss what Guardians could be.

Here is my feedback. Start over. Beging with the premise of why you think Guardian needs to change and suggest no more than 8 changes to accomplish that.

At this point i just want to fully redesign the class, and i am tempted to just wipe all i did, and fully redesign it (that means create my own abilities, etc).

The game needs a full design pass, but a full class rework will hold it over for a year or two. the smart thing to do is a fully design pass and call it a day.

I made these changes because i believe every aspect of a class should be valid. for gaurdian that is

- Tank*
- Condition (burning)
- Direct Damage (melee)
- Healing **

• = Level of importance via the expressive talents.

I fact, I think im going to do just that.

Newly Updated pass above guys, have a look and gimme feedback.

Obtena.7952:

Even if the changes were reasonable, there is so much going on here that no one would ever even TRY to implement this stuff. Anet hasn’t made these many changes to the class over the last 3 years.

There is dozens or hundreds of changes be suggested and not a single explanation why for any of them. I just can’t see where this is going, even if it’s a serious attempt to discuss what Guardians could be.

Here is my feedback. Start over. Beging with the premise of why you think Guardian needs to change and suggest no more than 8 changes to accomplish that.

This ^ sadly.

One thing allot of people fail to remember is that Anet is a small team and since they do not charge a monthly fee much of their work force is devoted to either expansions or cash shop items.
This taken in context that while much of the guardian abilities/weapon skills & traits do suck (both design wise and for usefulness) means that they will likely never get around to overhauling the class because at the end of the day
1: What (little) does work works alright
2: It would take far to many man hours to rework it.
&
3: You can always just roll something else (Engineer, ele & rev all do most or all the same roles much better and have much better flexibility)

So while it is neat to see all the ideas people come up with it’s likely Anet will never rework the class & many of the classes design/ability/trait problems will never get fixed.

Chronomancers had godmode, Revs were godly too (and it still keeps like that a lil’ bit), reapers, druids, eles, scrappers…
Let guardians become flavor of the season every now and then as well

Imagine how guardians would get awesome if we had traits just as strong as revenant’s ?

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

stuff

Anet isn’t that small. You’re implying an awful lot. Are you watching your sodium intake?

Bottom Line: the moment you put the words “Full rework” in your title you blew this thread’s brains out. Grey greasy stain all over the wall.

This is LIVE game. There are literally MILIONS of player hours invested into the Guardian as it is. There will be no “Full rework”, EVER. Not even guys with the title Lead System Designer get to do things like that once the ball is in play.

If you want to keep scripting a profession for some other game that will never be except in your imagination, carry on. If you want to influence the course of GW2, let me give you some much more practical advice.

Pick three small, specific differences in what actually happens during play that you’d like to see. We’re talking flavor and theme here. Not numbers. Not win/loss ratios. Feels.

Stop. No, really, stop right there. Now ask yourself if you have the breadth of perspective to be sure some of that’s not already happening. Ok, self-check over. Back to the fun parts.

Figure out how to bring about those differences in real play with the FIVE smallest changes to mechanics you can think of that encourage and support the feeling you’re after.

Got five really good ones? Cool. Throw away the one that took the most words to describe. It doesn’t matter how good it is, its too complex. Pitch it. The rest had better be three sentences or less or we’re gonna repeat this step until they are.

Great. Now I want to see your four best small but flavorful tweaks. Along with what you hope they’ll accomplish.

Now your tuning a LIVE game.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

stuff

Anet isn’t that small. You’re implying an awful lot. Are you watching your sodium intake?

Compared to many triple A game studios ya they are small

Once you take out the % of their people working on cash shop items, expansions & living story and have the left overs they are pretty darn small.

If they were ever going to do a rework on any class that actually meant anything they would need to hire allot more people or take a very very long time doing it.
That is something their corporate will likely never let happen due to it costing a decent chunk of $ and the fact that people can just roll something else.

The only way I can see them actually doing a rework is if the vast majority of guardian players just rolled something else and guardian numbers drastically tanked.
Then they would basically be forced to admit something is wrong and do something about it.

As Nike pointed out, neither OP nor Anet are going to do a rework. That only exists in mod forums for single player games.

Neither Guardian, nor any other class, needs a full rework. Yes, everyone has some lackluster things. But, that can be solved over time by balance updates. And, just because something hasn’t been changed in awhile doesn’t necessarily mean it’s imbalanced. Many skills could easily be mathematically balanced, but the perception is that they’re still weaker or stronger than they should. It means Anet might not see enough value in changing it, and yet prime all won’t use them. Class Communities as a whole need to experiment more with all the skills they have available to really see the actual potential. then we can start looking for changes. Considering the absolute insanity some people go through for just 5% increased effectiveness, it’s no wonder no one bothers with all the other uptime that are 95%, let alone discovering the real options that might be stuck at 60%.

Was there ever a golden age for guardians ?

Rework? lol they are all working on next expansion.