Guild Wars 2

This just doesnt make any sense at all.
There is 1 class that can effectively beat necro and thats thief.

We ele have 10k hp on zerker, and even if you blow a full spike (entire weaponskills on c/d) when your min maxed on zerker in pvp, it just makes a reaper go in deathshroud and have over half his life still intact.

This is besides the entire chill idea thats already hardcountering eles since day 1.
And the possibility to do 8k dmgspikes on ele even with a 60k HP pool. Its just absurd.

Necros in shroud have no mobility issues, in shroud they have more then enough access to stability to negate any CC you put on them.

And seeing over half my games are matching me up vs 2 necros this just isnt playable anymore.

Even if you are a higher skilled ele, necro can beat you due to sheer sponge HP.
If anet really wants necros to hardcounter ele so hard that skill just simply isnt a factor anymore. Please tell me.

ErazorZ.5209:

Even if you are a higher skilled ele, necro can beat you due to sheer sponge HP.

And before this patch, even if you were a higher skilled necro, any diamond skin ele could beat you with his eyes closed. Why is it only not ok now?

It wasn’t ok before. It isn’t ok now.

Browrain.7346:

ErazorZ.5209:

Even if you are a higher skilled ele, necro can beat you due to sheer sponge HP.

And before this patch, even if you were a higher skilled necro, any diamond skin ele could beat you with his eyes closed. Why is it only not ok now?

That got fixed last patch.
So why shouldnt they fix this problem aswell?

reikken.4961:

It wasn’t ok before. It isn’t ok now.

Honestly, this, people!

There were plenty of us ele mains saying that DS was broken, we were asking for ways to make the trait not be totally binary, we existed. I can even dig up the threads about it I made.

Nobody here is asking for X class to be OP and Y class to be UP, revert it next patch adn repeat the cycle.

I think we all can agree that there should be a middle ground, where all classes should be, even if not completely in equal standing (which will never happen) to at least be not day and night states of balance.

How is this so hard to understand?

In the past, necros still had a way to beat eles.

Hard…yes…. possible…yes

Well dh beats necro pretty well right now

Fortus.6175:

reikken.4961:

It wasn’t ok before. It isn’t ok now.

Honestly, this, people!

There were plenty of us ele mains saying that DS was broken, we were asking for ways to make the trait not be totally binary, we existed. I can even dig up the threads about it I made.

Nobody here is asking for X class to be OP and Y class to be UP, revert it next patch adn repeat the cycle.

I think we all can agree that there should be a middle ground, where all classes should be, even if not completely in equal standing (which will never happen) to at least be not day and night states of balance.

How is this so hard to understand?

Because not many people ask for middle ground. The forum warriors usually ask for extremes, which leads to classes getting over nerfed and over buffed.

Because eles needs to be in the gutter apparently.

In more honesty, it seemes it’s “only” the condi signet corrupt reaper that can counter an ele now. Ive done a few 1v1s vs good fresh air eles and they can beat most other reaper types, esp if ur starting lf is low. Havent tried as power reap though.

Browrain.7346:

ErazorZ.5209:

Even if you are a higher skilled ele, necro can beat you due to sheer sponge HP.

And before this patch, even if you were a higher skilled necro, any diamond skin ele could beat you with his eyes closed. Why is it only not ok now?

Wrong,, pre patch all you had to do was go deathshroud and spam 1 for might stacks, soon as the eles below 90% boon corrupt with condi pressure and watch them melt, most eles especially will waste all their defensives to stay above 90%, so as soon as they drop its even an easier win

Ninski.5680:

Browrain.7346:

ErazorZ.5209:

Even if you are a higher skilled ele, necro can beat you due to sheer sponge HP.

And before this patch, even if you were a higher skilled necro, any diamond skin ele could beat you with his eyes closed. Why is it only not ok now?

Wrong,, pre patch all you had to do was go deathshroud and spam 1 for might stacks, soon as the eles below 90% boon corrupt with condi pressure and watch them melt, most eles especially will waste all their defensives to stay above 90%, so as soon as they drop its even an easier win

Wrong. You were facing bad eles who didn’t know how to manage their cd’s. Good eles didn’t die to necros

Diamond Skin was greatly helping Tempests against Reapers. Without Diamond Skin, it was very difficult to beat Reapers of equal ability; or near impossible (I know that; I did not use Diamond Skin). Tempest got some nerfs and Reapers got some buffs. So that’s the situation.

Browrain.7346:

Ninski.5680:

Browrain.7346:

ErazorZ.5209:

Even if you are a higher skilled ele, necro can beat you due to sheer sponge HP.

And before this patch, even if you were a higher skilled necro, any diamond skin ele could beat you with his eyes closed. Why is it only not ok now?

Wrong,, pre patch all you had to do was go deathshroud and spam 1 for might stacks, soon as the eles below 90% boon corrupt with condi pressure and watch them melt, most eles especially will waste all their defensives to stay above 90%, so as soon as they drop its even an easier win

Wrong. You were facing bad eles who didn’t know how to manage their cd’s. Good eles didn’t die to necros

This is besides the point guys, thats in the past. We just want a solution for the future.
If people actually want this game to be fun, it needs to be balanced. And theres only Us the community who can make it go smooth or rough.

Im not asking for perfect balance. I think noone is. (we can all dream amiright) But atleast make classes killeable by other classes.

ErazorZ.5209:

Browrain.7346:

Ninski.5680:

Browrain.7346:

ErazorZ.5209:

Even if you are a higher skilled ele, necro can beat you due to sheer sponge HP.

And before this patch, even if you were a higher skilled necro, any diamond skin ele could beat you with his eyes closed. Why is it only not ok now?

Wrong,, pre patch all you had to do was go deathshroud and spam 1 for might stacks, soon as the eles below 90% boon corrupt with condi pressure and watch them melt, most eles especially will waste all their defensives to stay above 90%, so as soon as they drop its even an easier win

Wrong. You were facing bad eles who didn’t know how to manage their cd’s. Good eles didn’t die to necros

This is besides the point guys, thats in the past. We just want a solution for the future.
If people actually want this game to be fun, it needs to be balanced. And theres only Us the community who can make it go smooth or rough.

Im not asking for perfect balance. I think noone is. (we can all dream amiright) But atleast make classes killeable by other classes.

I’m all for balance. I just don’t want to see a bunch of nerf necro threads that lead to them being gutted just like ele. Right now it’s just an unhealthy overbuff overnerf cycle.

Ele isn’t meant for 1v1 but rather group support. Eles have a trait that gets rid of chill on dodging but the chill can be applied faster than you can blow your dodges. Also some water skills can be traited for removing conditions. A sage ele might have good healing and condition damage but needs testing.

Browrain.7346:

ErazorZ.5209:

Browrain.7346:

Ninski.5680:

Browrain.7346:

ErazorZ.5209:

Even if you are a higher skilled ele, necro can beat you due to sheer sponge HP.

And before this patch, even if you were a higher skilled necro, any diamond skin ele could beat you with his eyes closed. Why is it only not ok now?

Wrong,, pre patch all you had to do was go deathshroud and spam 1 for might stacks, soon as the eles below 90% boon corrupt with condi pressure and watch them melt, most eles especially will waste all their defensives to stay above 90%, so as soon as they drop its even an easier win

Wrong. You were facing bad eles who didn’t know how to manage their cd’s. Good eles didn’t die to necros

This is besides the point guys, thats in the past. We just want a solution for the future.
If people actually want this game to be fun, it needs to be balanced. And theres only Us the community who can make it go smooth or rough.

Im not asking for perfect balance. I think noone is. (we can all dream amiright) But atleast make classes killeable by other classes.

I’m all for balance. I just don’t want to see a bunch of nerf necro threads that lead to them being gutted just like ele. Right now it’s just an unhealthy overbuff overnerf cycle.

Yeah but exacly that is what we are trying to avoid, just like anet is. by healthy discussion and making super clear what works and what doesnt. I feel they just need to try stuff in a quickpaced timeframe. Like change a few numbers, see how that feels for a week, and then change it up again after that, till you hit the sweet spot.

I personally only see reall problems with the current shroud, i feel if stuff gets tweaked at that it might actually be very playable, yet not unwinnable for ele. Tweaks to chilling and maybe healthpool. Try to minimize the impact of the respective role of where necro stands now. But make the ele vs necro matchup more around skill and less about hardcounters.

I personally dont really know what other classes have the same issues with necros so i cant vouch for those. But i just hope itll get looked at from a fair ‘test’ point of view.

Meh if only anet had ‘test’ servers where you could queue games seperate from the main servers for upcomming balance patches so the community could indepth test and anet would be able to fix things on the fly. Or simply test new cool features.

Kinda want to add something here… mindless condition cleansing also leads to defeat.
Testing sage noticed how regeneration let me just ignore certain condis such as bleeding, poison and sometimes even burn (if only a single stack). Try it out on a custom room with the aid of a friend on different amulets. There are also some condis that can be ignored under certain conditions (weakness, blind, and low stacks of vulnerability) for chill and burn there’s “Drop, dodge and roll” but need to have in mind that even if you have two rolls available, the skill has 10s cd.

So in short, when fighting a reaper…. keep calm and try to ponder before using a cleanse.

Edit: Also consider using “Ether Renewal” instead of “Wash the Pain Away”, I know we are support, but an alive support is better than a dead one.

I find scrappers can do ok against reapers. I have more trouble with ele’s that are built bunker. but I have access to condi remove and condi invert to boon via EG and alchemy. So it counters them somewhat. I think we actually are in a relatively 50/50 position against them, though having all my HGH might converted is a serious pain.

kuritsutian.2987:

Kinda want to add something here… mindless condition cleansing also leads to defeat.
Testing sage noticed how regeneration let me just ignore certain condis such as bleeding, poison and sometimes even burn (if only a single stack). Try it out on a custom room with the aid of a friend on different amulets. There are also some condis that can be ignored under certain conditions (weakness, blind, and low stacks of vulnerability) for chill and burn there’s “Drop, dodge and roll” but need to have in mind that even if you have two rolls available, the skill has 10s cd.

So in short, when fighting a reaper…. keep calm and try to ponder before using a cleanse.

Edit: Also consider using “Ether Renewal” instead of “Wash the Pain Away”, I know we are support, but an alive support is better than a dead one.

Yeah cleanses definatly help with sustaining there DPS. But still the sponge HP is still a tough nut to crack as a low hp ele. Even if you can clear all the condis, you gotta have the dps to actually get it downed, whilst still having enough life to sustain through necros traited downstate attack.

Ele beats reaper in my experience… Although I have 4 ele’s now and have been playing the class for over 3 years.

sephiroth.4217:

Ele beats reaper in my experience… Although I have 4 ele’s now and have been playing the class for over 3 years.

Can you please post the build.
Ive been playing ele for 13+ years (gw1 included ;p) and i have yet to find a way to reliably be able to beat them due to the sponge in the current meta.

ErazorZ.5209:

kuritsutian.2987:

Kinda want to add something here… mindless condition cleansing also leads to defeat.
Testing sage noticed how regeneration let me just ignore certain condis such as bleeding, poison and sometimes even burn (if only a single stack). Try it out on a custom room with the aid of a friend on different amulets. There are also some condis that can be ignored under certain conditions (weakness, blind, and low stacks of vulnerability) for chill and burn there’s “Drop, dodge and roll” but need to have in mind that even if you have two rolls available, the skill has 10s cd.

So in short, when fighting a reaper…. keep calm and try to ponder before using a cleanse.

Edit: Also consider using “Ether Renewal” instead of “Wash the Pain Away”, I know we are support, but an alive support is better than a dead one.

Yeah cleanses definatly help with sustaining there DPS. But still the sponge HP is still a tough nut to crack as a low hp ele. Even if you can clear all the condis, you gotta have the dps to actually get it downed, whilst still having enough life to sustain through necros traited downstate attack.

Agree, yet, damage from condis take effect over time (slowly unless bombed), which is countered by regen (Sage amulet better at this than Celestial), the problem is, that’s why timing the cleanses is important is when regen gets corrupted into poison. (At this moment you use a shout to get rid of it and reapply regen + prot) … Power damage is another story but certainly the ones comming from necros shouldn’t be a problem on a bunker build.

kuritsutian.2987:

ErazorZ.5209:

kuritsutian.2987:

Kinda want to add something here… mindless condition cleansing also leads to defeat.
Testing sage noticed how regeneration let me just ignore certain condis such as bleeding, poison and sometimes even burn (if only a single stack). Try it out on a custom room with the aid of a friend on different amulets. There are also some condis that can be ignored under certain conditions (weakness, blind, and low stacks of vulnerability) for chill and burn there’s “Drop, dodge and roll” but need to have in mind that even if you have two rolls available, the skill has 10s cd.

So in short, when fighting a reaper…. keep calm and try to ponder before using a cleanse.

Edit: Also consider using “Ether Renewal” instead of “Wash the Pain Away”, I know we are support, but an alive support is better than a dead one.

Yeah cleanses definatly help with sustaining there DPS. But still the sponge HP is still a tough nut to crack as a low hp ele. Even if you can clear all the condis, you gotta have the dps to actually get it downed, whilst still having enough life to sustain through necros traited downstate attack.

Agree, yet, damage from condis take effect over time (slowly unless bombed), which is countered by regen (Sage amulet better at this than Celestial), the problem is, that’s why timing the cleanses is important is when regen gets corrupted into poison. (At this moment you use a shout to get rid of it and reapply regen + prot) … Power damage is another story but certainly the ones comming from necros shouldn’t be a problem on a bunker build.

So how does this build (wich seems very meta all roundish) hold up? I mean i assume its a d/f centered build?

Wanna keep it a secret, but can pm if still interested.

you don’t.

you enjoyed your d/d celele reign.

its over now.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

you don’t.

you enjoyed your d/d celele reign.

its over now.

Wait until they re-introduce Cele again, unless they completely redesign Ele, it will happen someday..

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

you don’t.

you enjoyed your d/d celele reign.

its over now.

Actually i didnt even play cele, i played marauder s/f back then. Wich was horribly underpowered. So go back to your cave you!

Let the grownups discuss balance!

Dh, druid, thief, rev, mes all have potential to beat necro kittening stop crying.

What do you think necros did when there were 2 diamond skin eles on the other team??? Yeah that’s what I kittening thought.

Jelzouki.4128:

Dh, druid, thief, rev, mes all have potential to beat necro kittening stop crying.

What do you think necros did when there were 2 diamond skin eles on the other team??? Yeah that’s what I kittening thought.

Im sorry, but asfar as ive read in this thread necros where still able to beat cele ele. This is currently asfar as to my knowledge not possible in its current scenario.

And what you are trying to advocate here is that you’d preffer an imbalance just to ‘get back’ at ele for the time DS was meta. Thats not what balance is about. So please try to either formulate an argument or refrain from posting here again. Its not wanted.

Haven’t found a build yet that works against reaper so if anyone does plz share

Keadron.9570:

Haven’t found a build yet that works against reaper so if anyone does plz share

Excuse my sarcasm but they are definatly working on it;

Elementalist:

Ride the Lightning: This ability is no longer able to be used in midair.

Necromancer:

Wells: Fixed an issue that caused these abilities to go on full recharge when interrupted.

Big nerf to ele dagger mainhand, and a pretty big deal buff for necros!

I hope this will all be justified. Maybe theyr toning down on dagger mainhand so they can give some love to ele?

ErazorZ.5209:

Excuse my sarcasm but they are definatly working on it;

Elementalist:

Ride the Lightning: This ability is no longer able to be used in midair.

Necromancer:

Wells: Fixed an issue that caused these abilities to go on full recharge when interrupted.

Big nerf to ele dagger mainhand, and a pretty big deal buff for necros!

It’s a pretty big deal, but basically meaningless for PvP. Very few people use wells due to how they can just be walked out of. Add in the 1/4 second cast time meaning that interrupting them in the first place it difficult, and net impact is really small.

I’m sure someone will find an Ele build that can survive Reapers, but I’m not sure if any will be found that can reliably beat them. Not until non-cantrip, non-shout skills get some attention.

WhatEVER class you play, you need to know what you can and can not take in a PvP match. If you’re an ele and you can’t take a Reaper (which to be honest pre-patch re DS surprises me), then you avoid that Reaper, or go in head strong as a team.

PvP is about team work and a big big factor in that is everyone knowing exactly which 1v1s they can win more often than not.

Ele is extremely survivable, they have great maneouvrability, strong DPS, excellent utility and I am absolutely gob smacked by this thread.

Celine.6857:

WhatEVER class you play, you need to know what you can and can not take in a PvP match. If you’re an ele and you can’t take a Reaper (which to be honest pre-patch re DS surprises me), then you avoid that Reaper, or go in head strong as a team.

PvP is about team work and a big big factor in that is everyone knowing exactly which 1v1s they can win more often than not.

Ele is extremely survivable, they have great maneouvrability, strong DPS, excellent utility and I am absolutely gob smacked by this thread.

I am sorry but i am just not playing the same game as you then.
I already told people in this thread and in my original post that when you face 2 reapers, you cannot run away from them, because that would make either you completely useless, or your taking a thiefs role on far from someone. Thats not what you want as an ele. Second, the reaper will seek you out, because you are an ele at the same time. Ive had it happen to me allot already in the past 3 days.

Second point. Pvp is certainly about teamwork, not arguiing that, but you cant expect to always relly on your team and pretend theyr always around. Especially as your rotate around, this feit is neigh impossible. (this is one of the big reasons why support builds generally tend to work less good in soloQ).

Ele in its current state is the exact opposite of extremely survivable seeing that they have no health, no super defensive runes to fall back on, and ‘invurns’ with a cooldown of 75 sec each (on utilities).

Not sure why you are talking about manouvrebility? I think your talking about celestial ele? Celestial doesnt exist anymore in the realms of PvP wich makes D/D setup very poor in terms of general survival.

The DPS, is one of the main points about my OP. If i full min max(aka go full yolo zerker) and do every skill on my proffesion in succession. I cannot break through a necro even when is AFKing. I told this in my original post. I wonder if you read it.

They have allot of utility thats what i can give you, boonsupport, auras, entire builds dedicated to support.

I hope you can express what you mean with what youve stated. I would love to learn this ele your talking about.

ErazorZ.5209:

sephiroth.4217:

Ele beats reaper in my experience… Although I have 4 ele’s now and have been playing the class for over 3 years.

Can you please post the build.
Ive been playing ele for 13+ years (gw1 included ;p) and i have yet to find a way to reliably be able to beat them due to the sponge in the current meta.

Use S/D blind spam and air/earth control.

I might also have the advantage of having this mouse, compared to the notorious keyboard turner, then there’s also other factors involved with the fight such as their own personal skill/build and rotations… I find a lot of Reapers will use the same combo’s repeatedly whereas the Ele can easily switch up a versatile playstyle.

With an Ele, there is also the clear advantage of mobility, so regardless the Ele should not lose unless the players own greed becomes their very demise.

tldr: I’m not saying I’m good, but I’m saying there’s a lot more factors involved with an engagement that determines the winner.

Do what the rest of us do and focus the necro down in a TEAM effort.

I know ele has been a 1 man show since celestial covered all the bases, but now it’s time to come back down and play with the rest of us

XD

Ross Biddle.2367:

Do what the rest of us do and focus the necro down in a TEAM effort.

I know ele has been a 1 man show since celestial covered all the bases, but now it’s time to come back down and play with the rest of us

XD

To be fair, since I don’t have a real personal stake in this…if you have to devote more than 3 players to taking down one class that isn’t a tank class and is a damage class…well then that is unbalanced. You can’t say “oh just because this class does damage having to take 3+ people to kill them” is balanced.

Hi. The anwer is impossible.

In order to sell HoT expansion to earn money for anet, some elite specs should be OPer than anything ever, such as reaper, druid, scrapper are good example.

Very Unfortunately for you,
dd cele eles had been claimed for more than a year for their OPness. I am pretty sure they had to delete it becuz it kept ripping off anet’s credibility since they haven’t removed it for more than a year.

But in reality, they actually made alternative sustain spec like druid. So just play it if you own HoT, and just pwn people around until they would play same OP spec in the future.

So you have alternatuve sustain build, which is druid. Plz play this class if you want sustain like dd cele ele.

Otherwise, If you want real fair game regardless of OPness, plz run core build.

I am one of the ele players that did not use cele amulet and DS. Had not much time to play til the patch. But before, reapers were very hard. It depended on the reaper type and player skill for shure but a good condi reaper which i guess using carrion, was very hard for me. It was a one mistake and dead thing. So now after a bit nerfs beside DS and cele (e.g. aura duration, earth overload) and buffs to necro, i have a realy bad feeling. Its a bit like corrupt protection and game over.

sephiroth.4217:

ErazorZ.5209:

sephiroth.4217:

Ele beats reaper in my experience… Although I have 4 ele’s now and have been playing the class for over 3 years.

Can you please post the build.
Ive been playing ele for 13+ years (gw1 included ;p) and i have yet to find a way to reliably be able to beat them due to the sponge in the current meta.

Use S/D blind spam and air/earth control.

I might also have the advantage of having this mouse, compared to the notorious keyboard turner, then there’s also other factors involved with the fight such as their own personal skill/build and rotations… I find a lot of Reapers will use the same combo’s repeatedly whereas the Ele can easily switch up a versatile playstyle.

With an Ele, there is also the clear advantage of mobility, so regardless the Ele should not lose unless the players own greed becomes their very demise.

tldr: I’m not saying I’m good, but I’m saying there’s a lot more factors involved with an engagement that determines the winner.

well s/d doesnt work really. since you dont have sustain in the current meta with s/d, focus gives you daze and invurns and reflects. dagger offhand only give you a slight (on c/d) mobility increase, but makes you super squishy and any focus fire will kill you in the current meta.

Blind spam is also is not reliable, since the cooldowns of the skills is too high to actually be able to spam it. Even if traited.

And added, i come from starcraft, im very well versed with my keyboard haha. Got a ducky shine+razer deathadder. And from my personal experience mmo mice really dont give me any sort of benefit. Actually its the contrary. My keyboard is literally my 3rd hand at this point (wich is why i like playing the active s/f somuch)

In pvp games there is something called “hard counter”, and it’s very useful.

Ele isn’t a hard counter to anything atm. It can’t survive a burst and even specd into full damage doesn’t do enough to put down anything but a thief (lots of people playing thief now who don’t know the class well enough)
Yes an experienced thief will know how to get out of the burst was meaning the ones who aren’t

Keadron.9570:

Ele isn’t a hard counter to anything atm. It can’t survive a burst and even specd into full damage doesn’t do enough to put down anything but a thief (lots of people playing thief now who don’t know the class well enough)

I didn’t say that every class needs to be a hard counter to something.
Ele has its qualities in group play. Are thiefs complaining that they can’t support well in a group fight? No, because thief is intended to be a quick +1 out of the shadows striking class.
The broken thing about Ele was that they were able to fulfil almost every role in a group and now that they need to choose one they are crying. (Not saying that everything is balanced properly)

That’s my point they don’t have anything to choose atm. They can do dps but they don’t actually do enough
They can go defense but can’t do that as well anymore
The only real role they have is team support and I’m sorry but hiding behind a teammate isn’t fun. If every fight has to ele/x vs anything else it isn’t teamwork it’s dragging the team down

Supporting your teammates in a group based game is a waste.. Sorry but I can’t follow your logic.

E: this is the problem with gw2 pvp. This “everyone can do everything” mentality simply doesn’t work in a pvp gamemode. And this is the reason they are not able to create an esports friendly pvp environment.

Entenkommando.5208:

Supporting your teammates in a group based game is a waste.. Sorry but I can’t follow your logic.

O.o

You wanna do nothing but support go for it. I didn’t say there was anything wrong with supporting teammates I said for (for me) not being able to do anything but support isn’t fun

Senario.2038:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Do what the rest of us do and focus the necro down in a TEAM effort.

I know ele has been a 1 man show since celestial covered all the bases, but now it’s time to come back down and play with the rest of us

XD

To be fair, since I don’t have a real personal stake in this…if you have to devote more than 3 players to taking down one class that isn’t a tank class and is a damage class…well then that is unbalanced. You can’t say “oh just because this class does damage having to take 3+ people to kill them” is balanced.

Investing more players into the task merely increases the takedown time. You could use more, or less, the point is it’s inevitable for the necro. The only challenge is taking down their necro before they take down one of yours.

How is Ele gonna beat Reaper ?: Well maybe try and buckle down and actually practice and improve. We were forced to, first time ever in 3y that Necro steps up to the Meta where btw your fcng class bin since launch.

Just accept that ArenaNet balance devs are god awful incompetent and either quit or reroll your class. For instance, if you play WvW and are still here after nearly 4 years, wondering why things are the way they are and keep hoping something will change, you’ll always be unhappy. Just accept that they don’t listen to the playerbase, they don’t care and you’d be happier not caring either. Kiss kiss.