Guild Wars 2

ErazorZ.5209:

I already told people in this thread and in my original post that when you face 2 reapers, you cannot run away from them, because that would make either you completely useless, or your taking a thiefs role on far from someone. Thats not what you want as an ele. Second, the reaper will seek you out, because you are an ele at the same time. Ive had it happen to me allot already in the past 3 days.

Nice. Can you explane us why did you ever decide that you should be able to stand on point against 2 reapers? Just because you want to?
You don’t like to be focused? Get used to it. Reapers were the second target right after DH in every match during S1.

L2P and adapt – that’s my only advice.

fumcheg.1936:

ErazorZ.5209:

I already told people in this thread and in my original post that when you face 2 reapers, you cannot run away from them, because that would make either you completely useless, or your taking a thiefs role on far from someone. Thats not what you want as an ele. Second, the reaper will seek you out, because you are an ele at the same time. Ive had it happen to me allot already in the past 3 days.

Nice. Can you explane us why did you ever decide that you should be able to stand on point against 2 reapers? Just because you want to?
You don’t like to be focused? Get used to it. Reapers were the second target right after DH in every match during S1.

L2P and adapt – that’s my only advice.

2 reapers are not as hard (still pretty hard) because their condis stacks, so a cleanse gets rid of both, if they are coordinated tho, they will spam you with less cd and your cleanses and will loose faster, you are not supposed to survive on this situation anyways, what you gotta do is take the most out of it .. (hold point for longer, focuss on one and hurt it the most you can, … on the other hand, if you cannot do anything at all, … then try to look for your closest teammate and try to go 2v2 …

what I find harder than 2 necros is a necro and a DH together…. the DH cc is so annoying when you have no stability or it gets corrupted by the necro, stacking different kinds of condis makes cleansing almost impossible. .. >.< faced this pair a couple of times and lost 100% of the time in little time …. (using d/d so no range)

ErazorZ.5209:

Jelzouki.4128:

Dh, druid, thief, rev, mes all have potential to beat necro kittening stop crying.

What do you think necros did when there were 2 diamond skin eles on the other team??? Yeah that’s what I kittening thought.

Im sorry, but asfar as ive read in this thread necros where still able to beat cele ele. This is currently asfar as to my knowledge not possible in its current scenario.

And what you are trying to advocate here is that you’d preffer an imbalance just to ‘get back’ at ele for the time DS was meta. Thats not what balance is about. So please try to either formulate an argument or refrain from posting here again. Its not wanted.

No. What I’m trying to do is show you how to deal with your problems. You’re whining that two necros on the other team is bad news for you, well you’ve got to play around them or multiclass or change your build just like us necros did before diamond skin nerf. I advocate balance, but I don’t advocate ignorance.

fumcheg.1936:

ErazorZ.5209:

I already told people in this thread and in my original post that when you face 2 reapers, you cannot run away from them, because that would make either you completely useless, or your taking a thiefs role on far from someone. Thats not what you want as an ele. Second, the reaper will seek you out, because you are an ele at the same time. Ive had it happen to me allot already in the past 3 days.

Nice. Can you explane us why did you ever decide that you should be able to stand on point against 2 reapers? Just because you want to?
You don’t like to be focused? Get used to it. Reapers were the second target right after DH in every match during S1.

L2P and adapt – that’s my only advice.

I wasnt talking on point against 2 reapers. i was talking that everywhere that i can go theres a reaper. Home, mid, any points that should be noteworthy . And 1 reaper = instant gg vs ele. As im trying to show.

Especially if you consider (like noone else here who plays necro obviously is) that chill hardcounters ele. And just to be able to get rid of the permanent chill a necro does you are forced to trait into 2 traitlines. Forcing you to go support because those traitlines do nothing damagewise. (oh and forced utilities aswell).

You know why reapers where the biggest target even before the balance patch? People ussually tend to focus the biggest threats first. It just so happens to be that necro always had this sustain, but because of cele sustain meta, people had better options at sustain.

Adapting as ele means going full support (like d/d was wich i on purpose did not play for its ease of play and its fixed optimal rotation you just have to rinse and repeat let alone the feeling that your literally doing nothing at all the entire game long).

The thing now with ele support is, they really dont do anything else anymore. Cele gave ele atleast the capability to do damage. But the bunkering up of cele ruined it by making it also have defensive capabilities, wich made it OP tbh.

The fact that this isnt a l2p issue is very very clear from my perspective seeing as ive been 1v1ing allot of necros lately just to see what i can still do. And yes what i can still do revolves around 2 forced traitlines (again). I also learn that the biggest issue is ‘Spectral armor’ This trait singlehandedly makes the reaper have twice the sustain they used to have.

Besides the point, you actually have allot of mobility as a reaper, seeing as your number 2 skill on shroud, deathcharge i believe its called, has a cooldown of 6 and when traited 5. That mobility + chill is unkiteable by anything that isnt gated into the 2 traitlines.

If anet really wants to force this slow paced action combat they keep enforcing. Thats really fine by me. They should do whatever they want. Its just not for me. And i just need someone to confirm this. Even if its in secret by an anet dev.

I just dont want this constant drag of waiting for actuall balanced gameplay anymore. “waiting for your chance to shine, but only if you play your proffesion exacly as we want you to do during the fixed meta we setup for you, Next season we will be taking a look at necro and thief nerfing them back again, and we see X class underperform so we are going to make that meta next.”

ErazorZ.5209:

skiped

I don’t advocate the balance, but if you have reapers on each point (means 3 reapers minimum team comp) then the best decision for you is to switch you class to one that don’t get hard countered by reapers. Like, you know, reapers did before the patch if they saw 2 eles on the oposite team.

For example if I have another thief on my team (I main thief btw) I’ll switch to another class, because 2 thieves on the same team = loss.

Any class has its weaknesses. Good DH on point = death for thief. Prepatch scrapper as well. Why do you think ele should be some kind of a special snowflake and counter any other class in the game?

The real thing anet must do is to forbid class stacking on one team. And it looks like they are not even going to do it.

ErazorZ.5209:

Besides the point, you actually have allot of mobility as a reaper, seeing as your number 2 skill on shroud, deathcharge i believe its called, has a cooldown of 6 and when traited 5. That mobility + chill is unkiteable by anything that isnt gated into the 2 traitlines.

And of course this part shows that you don’t play reaper.

Keadron.9570:

Ele isn’t a hard counter to anything atm. It can’t survive a burst and even specd into full damage doesn’t do enough to put down anything but a thief (lots of people playing thief now who don’t know the class well enough)
Yes an experienced thief will know how to get out of the burst was meaning the ones who aren’t

The funny thing is last patch I killed eles on my thief but on my ele still got killed by some thieves though I still won some duels but that was usually against careless p/p thieves who’d unload when my magnetic aura was off cool down on top of the burning I’d inflict on them.

So in this patch logically thieves have an even better chance against eles when in the previous meta it was just about an even 1v1 as long as the ele went staff.

Agemnon.4608:

Keadron.9570:

Ele isn’t a hard counter to anything atm. It can’t survive a burst and even specd into full damage doesn’t do enough to put down anything but a thief (lots of people playing thief now who don’t know the class well enough)
Yes an experienced thief will know how to get out of the burst was meaning the ones who aren’t

The funny thing is last patch I killed eles on my thief but on my ele still got killed by some thieves though I still won some duels but that was usually against careless p/p thieves who’d unload when my magnetic aura was off cool down on top of the burning I’d inflict on them.

So in this patch logically thieves have an even better chance against eles when in the previous meta it was just about an even 1v1 as long as the ele went staff.

While on ele, use stoneheart, helps with thieves a lot.

fumcheg.1936:

ErazorZ.5209:

skiped

I don’t advocate the balance, but if you have reapers on each point (means 3 reapers minimum team comp) then the best decision for you is to switch you class to one that don’t get hard countered by reapers. Like, you know, reapers did before the patch if they saw 2 eles on the oposite team.

For example if I have another thief on my team (I main thief btw) I’ll switch to another class, because 2 thieves on the same team = loss.

Any class has its weaknesses. Good DH on point = death for thief. Prepatch scrapper as well. Why do you think ele should be some kind of a special snowflake and counter any other class in the game?

The real thing anet must do is to forbid class stacking on one team. And it looks like they are not even going to do it.

fumcheg.1936:

ErazorZ.5209:

Besides the point, you actually have allot of mobility as a reaper, seeing as your number 2 skill on shroud, deathcharge i believe its called, has a cooldown of 6 and when traited 5. That mobility + chill is unkiteable by anything that isnt gated into the 2 traitlines.

And of course this part shows that you don’t play reaper.

I really wonder why people tend to ignore what i say, 2 reapers is more then enough to negate any pressence of an ele’s effectiveness. Your 3 reaper suggestion is absurd and in a game where you do have to fight and rotate around points you cannot tell me the reapers dont keep rotating.

So our problem already arises with 2 reapers (i could even say one, seeing mid mostly is the contestion point, but thats actually avoidable on allot of the current maps).

second point, I do not enjoy the other classes, i have also already stated this in the thread. Because i feel the other classes are too slow to be played ‘actively’. The entire idea what makes me have fun with s/f is that i can control my own speed. and i can actively get better at it, making it a high skillcap class wich you slowly improve upon untill youve hit the point where your mechanically sound and your dps has increased to tremendous ammounts. No other classes have this. The closest thing is a class spamming a single button thats on a low c/d And tbh thats not what i think someone who wants to improve should play. Ever.

third point, what your talking about is rock papper scissors balance if you actively agree that classes should hardcounter other classes. Rock papper scissors balancing is not balancing. Its rellying on RNG and good/bad matchups wich are only fixable by constantly swapping and ‘countering’ classes, with your own, wich your opponent is using as a team compo. This removes the entire mechanical skillfactor from the game and devolves it into a build-win or loss team setup. Where you dont actively have to know howto play your class, but wrather, understanding the basics where a class counters the opposing class. (Ea roll necro for perma chills vs ele). This kills skillfull plays and makes gw2 like a moba. A really poorly balanced with only a few ‘heros’ available. Moba aka a terrible one.

Onto your next point.

Why does that show that i dont play a reaper? Where exacly? I know very well reaper doesnt have access to swiftness and doesnt have any sort of maptraverse mobility. The intercept ability is the issue, its what necros gained with there elite spec. Wich is far too powerfull on a class like a reaper. This is also a form of mobility. And on a low cooldown, its absurd that reapers have access to it somuch.

I was already destroying eles with my reaper before the epic ele nerf, and I suck at necro, so GG Anet ruining this game.

If classes hardcounter each other its not the best. It must be specific builds in the classes. If the game forces to fully rotate classes it´s in a bad shape. Its a diffence if i use 1-3 diffrent traits/utilities or have to swap the class…. While i think rock/paper/scissor builds is a good thing, i disagree to do this only on a class level.

Browrain.7346:

ErazorZ.5209:

Browrain.7346:

Ninski.5680:

Browrain.7346:

ErazorZ.5209:

Even if you are a higher skilled ele, necro can beat you due to sheer sponge HP.

And before this patch, even if you were a higher skilled necro, any diamond skin ele could beat you with his eyes closed. Why is it only not ok now?

Wrong,, pre patch all you had to do was go deathshroud and spam 1 for might stacks, soon as the eles below 90% boon corrupt with condi pressure and watch them melt, most eles especially will waste all their defensives to stay above 90%, so as soon as they drop its even an easier win

Wrong. You were facing bad eles who didn’t know how to manage their cd’s. Good eles didn’t die to necros

This is besides the point guys, thats in the past. We just want a solution for the future.
If people actually want this game to be fun, it needs to be balanced. And theres only Us the community who can make it go smooth or rough.

Im not asking for perfect balance. I think noone is. (we can all dream amiright) But atleast make classes killeable by other classes.

I’m all for balance. I just don’t want to see a bunch of nerf necro threads that lead to them being gutted just like ele. Right now it’s just an unhealthy overbuff overnerf cycle.

But it’s ok for Mesmers to be gutted? Cant be so biased.

Svanir runes!

:D

Rome.7124:

Browrain.7346:

ErazorZ.5209:

Browrain.7346:

Ninski.5680:

Browrain.7346:

ErazorZ.5209:

Even if you are a higher skilled ele, necro can beat you due to sheer sponge HP.

And before this patch, even if you were a higher skilled necro, any diamond skin ele could beat you with his eyes closed. Why is it only not ok now?

Wrong,, pre patch all you had to do was go deathshroud and spam 1 for might stacks, soon as the eles below 90% boon corrupt with condi pressure and watch them melt, most eles especially will waste all their defensives to stay above 90%, so as soon as they drop its even an easier win

Wrong. You were facing bad eles who didn’t know how to manage their cd’s. Good eles didn’t die to necros

This is besides the point guys, thats in the past. We just want a solution for the future.
If people actually want this game to be fun, it needs to be balanced. And theres only Us the community who can make it go smooth or rough.

Im not asking for perfect balance. I think noone is. (we can all dream amiright) But atleast make classes killeable by other classes.

I’m all for balance. I just don’t want to see a bunch of nerf necro threads that lead to them being gutted just like ele. Right now it’s just an unhealthy overbuff overnerf cycle.

But it’s ok for Mesmers to be gutted? Cant be so biased.

I would agree, it is not ok for any class to get gutted or nerfed constantly (ele) but generally that is all a byproduct of Anet’s crappy balancing.

Senario.2038:

Rome.7124:

Browrain.7346:

ErazorZ.5209:

Browrain.7346:

Ninski.5680:

Browrain.7346:

ErazorZ.5209:

Even if you are a higher skilled ele, necro can beat you due to sheer sponge HP.

And before this patch, even if you were a higher skilled necro, any diamond skin ele could beat you with his eyes closed. Why is it only not ok now?

Wrong,, pre patch all you had to do was go deathshroud and spam 1 for might stacks, soon as the eles below 90% boon corrupt with condi pressure and watch them melt, most eles especially will waste all their defensives to stay above 90%, so as soon as they drop its even an easier win

Wrong. You were facing bad eles who didn’t know how to manage their cd’s. Good eles didn’t die to necros

This is besides the point guys, thats in the past. We just want a solution for the future.
If people actually want this game to be fun, it needs to be balanced. And theres only Us the community who can make it go smooth or rough.

Im not asking for perfect balance. I think noone is. (we can all dream amiright) But atleast make classes killeable by other classes.

I’m all for balance. I just don’t want to see a bunch of nerf necro threads that lead to them being gutted just like ele. Right now it’s just an unhealthy overbuff overnerf cycle.

But it’s ok for Mesmers to be gutted? Cant be so biased.

I would agree, it is not ok for any class to get gutted or nerfed constantly (ele) but generally that is all a byproduct of Anet’s crappy balancing.

After 3 years of playing this game, i cant really say its a byproduct of crappy balance.

Seeing as they consistnelty do the same stuff. It feels very intentional.

Xillllix.3485:

I was already destroying eles with my reaper before the epic ele nerf, and I suck at necro, so GG Anet ruining this game.

I’m pretty sure those eles couldn’t use DS or you weren’t condi/cele. Or they were just bad. Before the change I didn’t die to a necro once.

Anyways, never listen to anyone who tells you to use Ether Renewal, worst heal ele has.

Rome.7124:

Browrain.7346:

ErazorZ.5209:

Browrain.7346:

Ninski.5680:

Browrain.7346:

ErazorZ.5209:

Even if you are a higher skilled ele, necro can beat you due to sheer sponge HP.

And before this patch, even if you were a higher skilled necro, any diamond skin ele could beat you with his eyes closed. Why is it only not ok now?

Wrong,, pre patch all you had to do was go deathshroud and spam 1 for might stacks, soon as the eles below 90% boon corrupt with condi pressure and watch them melt, most eles especially will waste all their defensives to stay above 90%, so as soon as they drop its even an easier win

Wrong. You were facing bad eles who didn’t know how to manage their cd’s. Good eles didn’t die to necros

This is besides the point guys, thats in the past. We just want a solution for the future.
If people actually want this game to be fun, it needs to be balanced. And theres only Us the community who can make it go smooth or rough.

Im not asking for perfect balance. I think noone is. (we can all dream amiright) But atleast make classes killeable by other classes.

I’m all for balance. I just don’t want to see a bunch of nerf necro threads that lead to them being gutted just like ele. Right now it’s just an unhealthy overbuff overnerf cycle.

But it’s ok for Mesmers to be gutted? Cant be so biased.

Lol biased. I mained shatter mesmer for many years. I’d love to see zerk mesmer become viable again. While mesmer is also gutted and useless, bunk mesmer had to change. I’d rather see them gutted than not changed at all. Their alacrity uptime and rez potential was cancer.

ele is not supposed to beat reaper in first place. do you think it was an coincidence that in the dd cele ele meta signet necro was the only soft counter? it has always been this way.
ele uses boonspam, necro corrupts them
ele uses lots of skills, necro chill longers their cooldown, now with reaper focusing on chill this got worse..
and so on..

now the cele ele got some nerfs which brought it back in line and wow kitten finally the designed hardcounter does its job effectively! its supposed to be this way just hasnt been this way for a while..

I agree deathly chill needs a nerf to allow more counters to reaper but that wont help ele a whole lot..

old but gold

Lol yeah only it’s worse now

kuritsutian.2987:

Agemnon.4608:

Keadron.9570:

Ele isn’t a hard counter to anything atm. It can’t survive a burst and even specd into full damage doesn’t do enough to put down anything but a thief (lots of people playing thief now who don’t know the class well enough)
Yes an experienced thief will know how to get out of the burst was meaning the ones who aren’t

The funny thing is last patch I killed eles on my thief but on my ele still got killed by some thieves though I still won some duels but that was usually against careless p/p thieves who’d unload when my magnetic aura was off cool down on top of the burning I’d inflict on them.

So in this patch logically thieves have an even better chance against eles when in the previous meta it was just about an even 1v1 as long as the ele went staff.

While on ele, use stoneheart, helps with thieves a lot.

Back then diamond skin was too invaluable and would be more useful this patch if it weren’t gutted but switched between diamond skin and stone heart depending on their comp.

Laraley.7695:

Xillllix.3485:

I was already destroying eles with my reaper before the epic ele nerf, and I suck at necro, so GG Anet ruining this game.

I’m pretty sure those eles couldn’t use DS or you weren’t condi/cele. Or they were just bad. Before the change I didn’t die to a necro once.

Anyways, never listen to anyone who tells you to use Ether Renewal, worst heal ele has.

There is no way you would not have lost to a reaper. You would have been frozen and nuked down, just like everyone else.

Axialbloom.8109:

Laraley.7695:

Xillllix.3485:

I was already destroying eles with my reaper before the epic ele nerf, and I suck at necro, so GG Anet ruining this game.

I’m pretty sure those eles couldn’t use DS or you weren’t condi/cele. Or they were just bad. Before the change I didn’t die to a necro once.

Anyways, never listen to anyone who tells you to use Ether Renewal, worst heal ele has.

There is no way you would not have lost to a reaper. You would have been frozen and nuked down, just like everyone else.

There is nothing easier than beating an ele if you are an ele main paying another class. On a necro Interrupt at the right moment, corrupt boons and burst condi at the right moment, and they’re stuck out of skill recharge with the condi doing the work as you mash all the keys not on cooldown.

Diamond skin was actually a pretty average trait that only worked in a super condi-heavy meta. Seriously any build with a little power would break through it.

Axialbloom.8109:

Laraley.7695:

Xillllix.3485:

I was already destroying eles with my reaper before the epic ele nerf, and I suck at necro, so GG Anet ruining this game.

I’m pretty sure those eles couldn’t use DS or you weren’t condi/cele. Or they were just bad. Before the change I didn’t die to a necro once.

Anyways, never listen to anyone who tells you to use Ether Renewal, worst heal ele has.

There is no way you would not have lost to a reaper. You would have been frozen and nuked down, just like everyone else.

There are some players just pushing agendas being vocal and over exagerating things.

DEATHsCLAW.1978:

ele is not supposed to beat reaper in first place. do you think it was an coincidence that in the dd cele ele meta signet necro was the only soft counter? it has always been this way.
ele uses boonspam, necro corrupts them
ele uses lots of skills, necro chill longers their cooldown, now with reaper focusing on chill this got worse..
and so on..

now the cele ele got some nerfs which brought it back in line and wow kitten finally the designed hardcounter does its job effectively! its supposed to be this way just hasnt been this way for a while..

I agree deathly chill needs a nerf to allow more counters to reaper but that wont help ele a whole lot..

Ive talked about this in this thread allot of times already. Even in my OP, What it comes down to is that skill in the end doesnt matter in PvP if thats the case. If they trully want Rock Papper Scissors balancing, the only ‘skill’ you have is rerolling your character faster then the opponent to counter there build with your own if thats what it boils down to.

You think thats good?

ErazorZ.5209:

sephiroth.4217:

ErazorZ.5209:

sephiroth.4217:

Ele beats reaper in my experience… Although I have 4 ele’s now and have been playing the class for over 3 years.

Can you please post the build.
Ive been playing ele for 13+ years (gw1 included ;p) and i have yet to find a way to reliably be able to beat them due to the sponge in the current meta.

Use S/D blind spam and air/earth control.

I might also have the advantage of having this mouse, compared to the notorious keyboard turner, then there’s also other factors involved with the fight such as their own personal skill/build and rotations… I find a lot of Reapers will use the same combo’s repeatedly whereas the Ele can easily switch up a versatile playstyle.

With an Ele, there is also the clear advantage of mobility, so regardless the Ele should not lose unless the players own greed becomes their very demise.

tldr: I’m not saying I’m good, but I’m saying there’s a lot more factors involved with an engagement that determines the winner.

well s/d doesnt work really. since you dont have sustain in the current meta with s/d, focus gives you daze and invurns and reflects. dagger offhand only give you a slight (on c/d) mobility increase, but makes you super squishy and any focus fire will kill you in the current meta.

Blind spam is also is not reliable, since the cooldowns of the skills is too high to actually be able to spam it. Even if traited.

And added, i come from starcraft, im very well versed with my keyboard haha. Got a ducky shine+razer deathadder. And from my personal experience mmo mice really dont give me any sort of benefit. Actually its the contrary. My keyboard is literally my 3rd hand at this point (wich is why i like playing the active s/f somuch)

Well like I originally said, other factors are involved with the engagement such as personal skill, S/D works really well for me, especially in the current meta. So does D/D.

Before you came on here talking about sustain and how useless ele is, have you bothered to even try a sage burn ele? Troll a firestorm on mid fight if you like, it’ll still melt an entire point.

But again, personal skill differences, I’m useless with focus and warhorn offhand, whereas S/D and D/D are the only weapon sets I like to help maintain an active play style similar to that of thief.

ErazorZ.5209:

Ive talked about this in this thread allot of times already. Even in my OP, What it comes down to is that skill in the end doesnt matter in PvP if thats the case. If they trully want Rock Papper Scissors balancing, the only ‘skill’ you have is rerolling your character faster then the opponent to counter there build with your own if thats what it boils down to.

You think thats good?

The skill involves playing around your weakness, shining with your strength and assisting your teammates if they are in an unfortunate position.
If everyone can do everything what do we even have 9 classes for?

After years of Necro not being able to touch Eles, qq day two of the reverse.

but yea reaper sccrapper thief new holy trinity

Entenkommando.5208:

ErazorZ.5209:

Ive talked about this in this thread allot of times already. Even in my OP, What it comes down to is that skill in the end doesnt matter in PvP if thats the case. If they trully want Rock Papper Scissors balancing, the only ‘skill’ you have is rerolling your character faster then the opponent to counter there build with your own if thats what it boils down to.

You think thats good?

The skill involves playing around your weakness, shining with your strength and assisting your teammates if they are in an unfortunate position.
If everyone can do everything what do we even have 9 classes for?

Note that im talking about hardcounters. Not softcounters. There is a huge difference in the two and it seems allot of gw2 is hardcounter classes. (or meta allrounders)

Its impossible to play with a weakness that gets you one shot that you cant dodge, Agree? A softcounter will never be able to 1 shot you. It will just do more damage versus your class overall.

Assisting your teammates should not be important if you are simply already hardcountering every class they bring to the table as a team. Every member of your team rerolls to a specific person and counters that. Only looks up fights against said person. And this means there is literally nothing your opposing team can do except pray to the RNG gods they dont meet there hardcounters when rotating.

This is not really about everyone being able to do everything. This is about softcountering instead of hardcountering.

If i face a necro, he currently hardcounters me, there is pretty much nothing i can do against it. I’d just die or he needs to not understand what makes a necro a necro.

What im suggesting is that there should be counterplays against every possible build. But give classes a slight advantage versus others. Like a necro should be beatable by ele, but chill currently completely puts a halt to that and with the excess on chills a necro has access to through there reaper line. That simple fact needs a rework.

Im just gonna give an example what ‘could’ be done. Make chill not affect attunement swapping. This will give the ele the option to still dance between attunements (clearing the possible chill), but it will most definatly give the necro an advantage. A softer counter then the current state of chill. (And tbh allot more fair in regards to other classes weaponswapping) I am also not stating this is exacly how it should be. But im simply stating this is a way to start tweaking numbers and balance.

To make the game more softcounters then hardcounters. Because if everything is able to softcounter everything about current strategy is required, but good mechanical gameplay can break it, if you really know what your doing. People would be less incentivised to ‘swap to counter’

And meta wouldnt be forced so hard since those are the only builds who have the most sustain versus most classes.

Cam Ron.4170:

After years of Necro not being able to touch Eles, qq day two of the reverse.

but yea reaper sccrapper thief new holy trinity

I dont know how many people have already told me this, but ill respond to it again. Aslong as people keep being non argumentative. And simply said Salty about the past meta’s. They shouldnt discuss balance. Since your view is warped and biased. And has no reall information.

Balance is achieved by cooperating. Working together to make the best solution from both sides and make them into 1 common goal. I didnt think DS was any good for the game and allot of fellow elementalists agreed it should get nerfed.

Aslong as necros dont aknowledge the problems at hand, obviously anet will never have a clear picture on whats happening. And will keep making these horrible moodswing imbalances. Where next meta ele will get DS back and your back to square one again. We BOTH dont want that.

Aslong as people say stuff like ‘Hah now its your turn to burn’ You are not discussing balance you are just being resentfull and want to keep the game imbalanced.

btw this thread has no sense ( reade below, it’s not meant to be offensive the start ).
is like saying “how is thief ever going to beat reaper?”

In a pvp scenario is normal that one class can handle another but not another one, and cause the meta changes every few months, also classes changes.

Instead thinking of countering a reaper you should think about what you class could do in a similar scenario ( if necro holds a point, just swap with another class, concentrate to support party in team fights or defending a point ).

Thief was a bit hard to play in s1 ( d/p i mean ) but viable into a good player hands, but couldn’t do many 1v1, and was better to roam/assist instead.

It’s just an example.

So sick of all the “necro is hp sponge” posts… ever since b4 gw2 was launched anet said from the get go… “we want necro to have more survivability than any other class due to their secondary life force bar”.

You want to complain that ele cant beat it and you dont want to have to team fight it down. Well here is the thing, your average necro is running carrion amulet and has roughly 45k ish total hp if the necro is at 100% DS. The DS naturally decays, does not go back up while still in shroud (except through the auto attack), and they have zero condi cleanse in shroud (LEARN 2 ABUSE SOFT CC, IMOB FTW). Survival rangers are GREAT against reapers espeically if they are running spider for more imob, rangers just spam that imob and cripple to victory!

Seems to me everyone is asking “make necro die fast as everyone else” when anet said from the get go, they want the opposite for it. Yea, its takes a team efforts to kill 45k hp condi behemoth, thats the point. The necro is a run away class, let it build up momentum and you’ll regret it.

The only truely broken thing about necro atm is its ability to spam conditions COMBINED with the rate at which it converts boons to conditons (1 boon per 3.5s on a single utility, gj anet). Other than that, necro IS balanced. What I would TRUELY love to see is necro condi/corruption toned down and power actually made viable for the 1st time in about a year now.

I’ve 1v1’d several necros in about 50 1v1’s against decent players and I didn’t have any major problems when I was running DS (about 80% wins). I’ve tested a paladin amu, earth, water, tempest D/D and a paladin S/F air, earth, tempest fresh air build.

The Problem is though, that in the current meta, you need stoneheart as well (or at least Focus) against spiked dmg.

You really have to train the MU though, since it can be quite tricky and is probably one of the harder MU’s to play right. I’d still say it’s favoured for Ele, IF you run DS. Without DS I got shredded pretty hard.

Well i am not very experienced ele player but i think problem with ele is bigger. Ele is just bad designed class , same goes for mesmer and thief. Those 3 classes are either completely broken and OP or totally useless , there is nothing betwen.

I always considered necro as a one of the best balanced classes in game. Simply because necro had no access to build that would give u sustain , mobility , dmg and support at once. Atm necro can output rly high condi pressure with combination of self condi stacking + boon corupt , i play necro very long time and toning down duration of chill could make things more balanced for sure but at the same time u need to remember that necro have many flaws and still can be focused down very ezy and suffer from lack of mobility.

I think that’s the bigest problem in game atm , cele ele had acces to everything , there was no solid counter to that . In my opinion to balance ele but also thief and mesmer anet have to think about completely reworking those classes.

That’s only my opinion.

Aren’t eles ridiculously mobile and with insane healing sustain. Aren’t they pretty much taking the same role as thief where you +1 but instead of being selfish like a thief, an ele brings boons out the wazzoo and make everyone on your team unkillable.

Forestgreen.7981:

Aren’t eles ridiculously mobile and with insane healing sustain. Aren’t they pretty much taking the same role as thief where you +1 but instead of being selfish like a thief, an ele brings boons out the wazzoo and make everyone on your team unkillable.

No. What was keeping tempest alive during previous meta, believe or not, was the chronobunker. Tempest alone would melt in a few seconds during a team fight.

With the removal of the celestial amulet, the nerf change to diamond skin and the auras, eles/tempest don’t have the sustain people were used to see back on the day of the cele d/d.

The only build which have the mobility people claim all the time is the cantrip d/d and now there is shout traited with zephyr’s boon which is a waste to use 20+ seconds cd shouts or dagger auras for 5 seconds of swiftness unless your intention is to cross the whole map without fighting.

ErazorZ.5209:

This just doesnt make any sense at all.
There is 1 class that can effectively beat necro and thats thief.

We ele have 10k hp on zerker, and even if you blow a full spike (entire weaponskills on c/d) when your min maxed on zerker in pvp, it just makes a reaper go in deathshroud and have over half his life still intact.

This is besides the entire chill idea thats already hardcountering eles since day 1.
And the possibility to do 8k dmgspikes on ele even with a 60k HP pool. Its just absurd.

Necros in shroud have no mobility issues, in shroud they have more then enough access to stability to negate any CC you put on them.

And seeing over half my games are matching me up vs 2 necros this just isnt playable anymore.

Even if you are a higher skilled ele, necro can beat you due to sheer sponge HP.
If anet really wants necros to hardcounter ele so hard that skill just simply isnt a factor anymore. Please tell me.

But…necros don’t hardcounter eles at all right now, no profession/build does hardcounter eles right now.

Hardcounter means that not matter what you do..the defeat is 100% guaranteed and that’s definitely not the ele case.

With the right build, an ele right now can stand up to necros on equal ground and then everything boils down to personal skill; still now that build will be weaker against somebody else in the enemy team and here comes the word teamplay to mind.

There is no more cele to have a “build that fit them all”, now you need to pick your build..and choose your fights.

Ele relies on boons to survive. boon strip/conversion is a pretty good counter to ele

Forestgreen.7981:

Aren’t eles ridiculously mobile and with insane healing sustain. Aren’t they pretty much taking the same role as thief where you +1 but instead of being selfish like a thief, an ele brings boons out the wazzoo and make everyone on your team unkillable.

Tempests are the least mobile thing in PvP.

Supreme.3164:

ErazorZ.5209:

This just doesnt make any sense at all.
There is 1 class that can effectively beat necro and thats thief.

We ele have 10k hp on zerker, and even if you blow a full spike (entire weaponskills on c/d) when your min maxed on zerker in pvp, it just makes a reaper go in deathshroud and have over half his life still intact.

This is besides the entire chill idea thats already hardcountering eles since day 1.
And the possibility to do 8k dmgspikes on ele even with a 60k HP pool. Its just absurd.

Necros in shroud have no mobility issues, in shroud they have more then enough access to stability to negate any CC you put on them.

And seeing over half my games are matching me up vs 2 necros this just isnt playable anymore.

Even if you are a higher skilled ele, necro can beat you due to sheer sponge HP.
If anet really wants necros to hardcounter ele so hard that skill just simply isnt a factor anymore. Please tell me.

But…necros don’t hardcounter eles at all right now, no profession/build does hardcounter eles right now.

Hardcounter means that not matter what you do..the defeat is 100% guaranteed and that’s definitely not the ele case.

With the right build, an ele right now can stand up to necros on equal ground and then everything boils down to personal skill; still now that build will be weaker against somebody else in the enemy team and here comes the word teamplay to mind.

There is no more cele to have a “build that fit them all”, now you need to pick your build..and choose your fights.

Clearly you’ve never been chilled as an elementalist before. It is the definition of hard counter. Not to mention boon corrupt makes things even worse. Eles have long cooldowns and that is because they have 4 attunements but chill makes it so those long cooldowns are even longer and it even slows down your attunement swap to terribly slow levels.

The fact that chill is on an autoattack is just laughably funny and I can see why ele is hard countered by necro.

Okay, i know this is a WvW build but i just saw this on reddit.
I’d like to show you how much access they have to chilling and freezing.

Added that to the boon corrupt. Well. I think we’ve got a healthy discussion going here guys, so keep it up!

Senario.2038:

Supreme.3164:

ErazorZ.5209:

This just doesnt make any sense at all.
There is 1 class that can effectively beat necro and thats thief.

We ele have 10k hp on zerker, and even if you blow a full spike (entire weaponskills on c/d) when your min maxed on zerker in pvp, it just makes a reaper go in deathshroud and have over half his life still intact.

This is besides the entire chill idea thats already hardcountering eles since day 1.
And the possibility to do 8k dmgspikes on ele even with a 60k HP pool. Its just absurd.

Necros in shroud have no mobility issues, in shroud they have more then enough access to stability to negate any CC you put on them.

And seeing over half my games are matching me up vs 2 necros this just isnt playable anymore.

Even if you are a higher skilled ele, necro can beat you due to sheer sponge HP.
If anet really wants necros to hardcounter ele so hard that skill just simply isnt a factor anymore. Please tell me.

But…necros don’t hardcounter eles at all right now, no profession/build does hardcounter eles right now.

Hardcounter means that not matter what you do..the defeat is 100% guaranteed and that’s definitely not the ele case.

With the right build, an ele right now can stand up to necros on equal ground and then everything boils down to personal skill; still now that build will be weaker against somebody else in the enemy team and here comes the word teamplay to mind.

There is no more cele to have a “build that fit them all”, now you need to pick your build..and choose your fights.

Clearly you’ve never been chilled as an elementalist before. It is the definition of hard counter. Not to mention boon corrupt makes things even worse. Eles have long cooldowns and that is because they have 4 attunements but chill makes it so those long cooldowns are even longer and it even slows down your attunement swap to terribly slow levels.

The fact that chill is on an autoattack is just laughably funny and I can see why ele is hard countered by necro.

Does it really matter to explain how to fight necros or show any build/tip?
Unless it’s a build used by the winning ESL team, anything is considered trash and whoever have success with it, it’s because he’s fighting newbs , ofc, who spamm scepter 1 and never go into RS, not even once and clearly dunno where the chill button is or don’t even use the staff

Basically the answer is always the same..if you have success with a non ESL build that is not nicely posted on metabattle for everybody else to copy/paste..then you obviously play hotjoin against people who bought the game yesterday

To top everything up, I tried to explain few things before on this forum but after being called : pretentious , noname noob etc etc or reading something like :“you never even once played PvP” ( despite me recently posting a pic of my diamond division where I decided to stop despite having few more days to go, because I don’t want to be associated with people who clearly reached legendary riding the exploit wave, as such I will post later a picture of me reaching legendary in S2 where no exploit or cele brokenant is present…may be childish..but I will shut down few haters on this forum and anyway S1 was nothing but a grind and I grinded just enough to complete year 2 of ascension ) ; I prefer not to say anything anymore, I simply stated the truth : nothing hardcounter the ele, there are only hard and easy match ups

Supreme.3164:

Senario.2038:

Supreme.3164:

ErazorZ.5209:

This just doesnt make any sense at all.
There is 1 class that can effectively beat necro and thats thief.

We ele have 10k hp on zerker, and even if you blow a full spike (entire weaponskills on c/d) when your min maxed on zerker in pvp, it just makes a reaper go in deathshroud and have over half his life still intact.

This is besides the entire chill idea thats already hardcountering eles since day 1.
And the possibility to do 8k dmgspikes on ele even with a 60k HP pool. Its just absurd.

Necros in shroud have no mobility issues, in shroud they have more then enough access to stability to negate any CC you put on them.

And seeing over half my games are matching me up vs 2 necros this just isnt playable anymore.

Even if you are a higher skilled ele, necro can beat you due to sheer sponge HP.
If anet really wants necros to hardcounter ele so hard that skill just simply isnt a factor anymore. Please tell me.

But…necros don’t hardcounter eles at all right now, no profession/build does hardcounter eles right now.

Hardcounter means that not matter what you do..the defeat is 100% guaranteed and that’s definitely not the ele case.

With the right build, an ele right now can stand up to necros on equal ground and then everything boils down to personal skill; still now that build will be weaker against somebody else in the enemy team and here comes the word teamplay to mind.

There is no more cele to have a “build that fit them all”, now you need to pick your build..and choose your fights.

Clearly you’ve never been chilled as an elementalist before. It is the definition of hard counter. Not to mention boon corrupt makes things even worse. Eles have long cooldowns and that is because they have 4 attunements but chill makes it so those long cooldowns are even longer and it even slows down your attunement swap to terribly slow levels.

The fact that chill is on an autoattack is just laughably funny and I can see why ele is hard countered by necro.

Does it really matter to explain how to fight necros or show any build/tip?
Unless it’s a build used by the winning ESL team, anything is considered trash and whoever have success with it, it’s because he’s fighting newbs , ofc, who spamm scepter 1 and never go into RS, not even once and clearly dunno where the chill button is or don’t even use the staff

Basically the answer is always the same..if you have success with a non ESL build that is not nicely posted on metabattle for everybody else to copy/paste..then you obviously play hotjoin against people who bought the game yesterday

To top everything up, I tried to explain few things before on this forum but after being called : pretentious , noname noob etc etc or reading something like :“you never even once played PvP” ( despite me recently posting a pic of my diamond division where I decided to stop despite having few more days to go, because I don’t want to be associated with people who clearly reached legendary riding the exploit wave, as such I will post later a picture of me reaching legendary in S2 where no exploit or cele brokenant is present…may be childish..but I will shut down few haters on this forum and anyway S1 was nothing but a grind and I grinded just enough to complete year 2 of ascension ) ; I prefer not to say anything anymore, I simply stated the truth : nothing hardcounter the ele, there are only hard and easy match ups

Well im sorry but you state diamond division is something to be proud of when in the same paragraph you state that its more a grind then actuall skill.

So let me just get this straight here, season 1’s mmr wasnt fullbound to leagues, wich literally means you could get higher up in the league system by being a lower skilled player learning allot of new stuff and generally improving, Since your mmr rises as you improve, you also gain pips. What im trying to say is if you start playing guildwars pvp for the very first time, the amount of improving you can do is tremendous, the higher you go, the less this is true. Wich means in its essence its allot easier for someone new to league up quickly and win allot of matches aslong as he gets a better understanding of the game. But this in no means mean that the player currently legendary (even without the exploit) is not someone who just started playing and was improving relatively fast.

Second, i would like to see you try to fight a necro when your permanently chilled as an ele.

All these problems could be solved by introducing the load-save-build option…

The meta would be much more dynamic with picks and counter-picks.

But now honestly this does not work…

You may start rebuild your toon before the match starts only to realise that 2sec before the start someone just picked a counter against you…

Please ANET introduce templates for sPvP!

On topic:

Ele counters DH which counters thief and thieves counter Ele

Reaper counters Scrapper what counters Druid but Druid counters Reaper

Revenant kills Mesmer but the Meso destroys Warriors what kills Rev.

…and so on…

(my list is not accurate AT ALL… builds make a big difference.. this is only an example)

Aggrostemma.1703:

All these problems could be solved by introducing the load-save-build option…

The meta would be much more dynamic with picks and counter-picks.

But now honestly this does not work…

You may start rebuild your toon before the match starts only to realise that 2sec before the start someone just picked a counter against you…

Please ANET introduce templates for sPvP!

On topic:

Ele counters DH which counters thief and thieves counter Ele

Reaper counters Scrapper what counters Druid but Druid counters Reaper

Revenant kills Mesmer but the Meso destroys Warriors what kills Rev.

…and so on…

(my list is not accurate AT ALL… builds make a big difference.. this is only an example)

Ele really doesnt counter DH, you might think 2 reflect buttons are enough to stop the ongoing barage of autoattack/trueshot, but your forgetting about the traps. and the cooldowns of the reflects. You need perma reflect unless your built tanky for DH since they can just sustain most DPS with invurns.

Also thief doesnt counter ele either, i have allot of fun fighting thiefs with my current build

And if reaper counters anything its ele.

But i repeat, once again, (3rd time now in this thread lol) Do you think rock papper scissors balancing is good? I mean the post above you (this was actually the same post lol) literally said whats happening right now. Just buy some character slots, get every meta build on your character that ‘counters’ another build. And just use the advantage to rofl all over the enemy team (aslong as you have a team that does the same).

Rock papper scissors balancing is not about skillfull plays, its about counters countering counters wich in its purest essence is nothing but constantly swapping classes at the ‘get ready’ stage untill your team has hardcountered your opponents composition.

If your opponent has the same knowledge its just gonna be about who can swap classes the fastest and who has the upperhand when the timer stops. I preffer if they made this game more about skills wrather then ‘class picking skills’ or having a distinct advantage when you buy an SSD over an HDD. Where any class hard counters another class instead of softcountering in most cases.

Soft countering is the way to go for balance, every class will have its distinct feel but has a shot against the enemy composition regardless what they pick aslong as the skills are there

Also, Just gonna post this video here aswell, i hope you guys like videos.

(edited because i didnt realise you where the one aswell talking about the build template)

so what you want too prove with that video?Braindead necro playing against braindead people come on.
You can do same video with Tempest diamond skin before Ds change.Sitting on point afk and spamming skills and heals.

vlad.4871:

so what you want too prove with that video?Braindead necro playing against braindead people come on.
You can do same video with Tempest diamond skin before Ds change.Sitting on point afk and spamming skills and heals.

Noone is saying DS was good for the game here. Glad youve read the entire thread!
But thats exacly why it got nerfed.

And its quite obvious (atleast to me) that necros comparing DS with the current reaper is only because they too understand its broken in its current form, as broken as DS was.

But we need to ‘live’ with the imbalance like they did with DS, wich is obviously ludicrous since youll never achieve balance with this mindset.

Yes,but if they nerf anything regarded to necro damage they need to boost their defensive ablities.
Played few games today in any fights we destroyed every necro in less than 10 seconds.
5 seconds if we had teef on our team.
Also I don t understand this hate against necros, SCRAPPERS ARE OVERLORDS and no once complain about that.People were too much used too see a necro who can t do anything in a fight and die now they have to deal with new necro playstyle and instead of trying to find things that counter this they just make 100000 complains on forums.
And usually the ones who complain have close to 0 idea how to fight a necro and when to fight them.(this it s not your case here)
Also you main problem should be ele bad his mechanics and try to change that not to hit into other classes(reaper) atm.

How about reroll Scrapper and kill everything?

"The fact that chill is on an autoattack is just laughably funny"

On necro greatsword yeah but if you are constantly getting hit with that final auto attack hit then I’m unsure how seriously I can take your points.