Guild Wars 2

lollasaurus.1457:

Your right guys, these runes that have been in the game since launch are the true source of disbalance in this game.

There is some seriously disbalanced stuff in this game, Lyssa runes is not one of them. People only started using them because of the need for massive cleansing, condispam is the culprit here.

No Having a full cleanse / full boons on 35 second ICD is OP and must be nerfed. Lyssa needs an ICD of 90s or atleast 60s

This seems to be less about the runes that have been in game forever and more about people not wanting to see certain classes have access to boons they dont think they should have.

It’s mostly the power of them with short CDs. 35-48 second full condition wipe, full boon gain (one being stability) is undoubtedly too powerful compared to other runes, no less.

Also, if you don’t see anything wrong with “Mass Invisibility” stomps:
- Invisible
-Protection+Regen
- Stability

There’s literally 0 counter to that. You can’t boon rip, you can’t aoe cc (or really even aoe damage it in time). So yeah, I mean… I think it’s an issue, and you’re right partially because of the access to boons. Take stability from Lyssa and it’s fine. (Or moreso fine).

ronpierce.2760:

It’s mostly the power of them with short CDs. 35-48 second full condition wipe, full boon gain (one being stability) is undoubtedly too powerful compared to other runes, no less.

Also, if you don’t see anything wrong with “Mass Invisibility” stomps:
- Invisible
-Protection+Regen
- Stability

There’s literally 0 counter to that. You can’t boon rip, you can’t aoe cc (or really even aoe damage it in time). So yeah, I mean… I think it’s an issue, and you’re right partially because of the access to boons. Take stability from Lyssa and it’s fine. (Or moreso fine).

You can still counter it by stealthing the downed ally, but aye, lyssa runes give too much everything.

Mass invis stomp? Major waste of the elite when there is distortion or phase retreat + blink, or even portal stomping. It’s used by mesmers for the panic button condition cleanse.

As mentioned a few times, this rune has only become popular due to the condi meta and cc spam. Balance that and people will move on to other runes.

Lyssa runes are completely over powered, however I’m not sure as a mesmer i would survive vs certain condi spam builds without it – Nullfield is just too slow against things like Signet of Spite. On the other hand I’m sure I would be able to deal with thieves a lot easier if they didnt have Stability burried under a bucket of boons. Its kinda symbolic of the meta – ridiculously over powered stuff trying to clash and beat other ridiculously over powered stuff.

I would like the meta to get to a point where we don’t have any of this kitten running around. Until that point though I feel it would seriously cripple mesmers if it was taken from us. Increasing its internal CD to 90secs would okitteneep me happy and reduce its effectiveness on thieves and warriors (from which I’m sure most of the hate for these runes stem).

But anyone saying these runes aren’t OP is wrong or lying, they are, just I’m not sure their evil can be removed before we tone down other hateful things. I realise this 90sec CD is entirely self preferential but we need it more than them xD

ronpierce.2760:

It’s mostly the power of them with short CDs. 35-48 second full condition wipe, full boon gain (one being stability) is undoubtedly too powerful compared to other runes, no less.

Full condition wipe + full boon gain on a 45 second cooldown is arguably too powerful for an elite ability, nevermind a rune set.

If Lyssa was an elite skill by itself, I’d take it.

Dagins.5163:

It’s not a problem with Lyssa, it’a a problem with other runes being so underpowered and meaningless.

Thedenofsin.7340:

data.4093:

Yeah, condinuking shouldn’t have any counter. /sarcasm

A rune set should never be a replacement for a counter-build. If you’re saying that Lyssa allows you to run a build that is oblivious to condition professions because it acts as a condition counter, then it definitely is overpowered.

In my opinion we should have a runes being a lot more important to a build an this for most of the runes. Now I am not saying that lyssa aren’t super strong but that we should have more rune sets changing the people play the game.

as long as CC and condi spam exists, Lyssa is mandatory

if anything, they should do something about the reason why people run lyssa despite all other 5 bonuses being meh

Cynz.9437:

as long as CC and condi spam exists, Lyssa is mandatory

if anything, they should do something about the reason why people run lyssa despite all other 5 bonuses being meh

That’s just bunk. The 4 piece bonus is as good as the 6 piece bonus on most other runes.

Secondly, how will you know the condi meta is balanced while Lyssa persists?

errant.9843:

Dagins.5163:

It’s not a problem with Lyssa, it’a a problem with other runes being so underpowered and meaningless.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Dagins.5163:

It’s not a problem with Lyssa, it’a a problem with other runes being so underpowered and meaningless.

Just to be clear, you are saying that Lyssa is balanced, but the other 51 rune sets are underpowered.

oooookk….

Thedenofsin.7340:

Cynz.9437:

as long as CC and condi spam exists, Lyssa is mandatory

if anything, they should do something about the reason why people run lyssa despite all other 5 bonuses being meh

That’s just bunk. The 4 piece bonus is as good as the 6 piece bonus on most other runes.

Secondly, how will you know the condi meta is balanced while Lyssa persists?

????
You fix the issue before fixing the fix to the issue…
Or else, I mean, you pull an Anet and just break the game more by doing something that should have helped…

They take like 2-3 months to see how ‘the meta plays out’… just nerfing lyssa without fixing the reason why so many builds need lyssa (state of condis; and many, high duration tough to avoid CCs) won’t do anything but make the game even more unplayable for an even longer time.

Lyssa is very niche, it really is only worth taking in a condi heavy meta…
If anything, it’ll die down in usage when condi/condi-removal starts balancing out better.

I can get defending lyssa because you need it to survive the meta… But really? It’s not niche… There’s nothing niche about a 48 second CD giving you all boons (including stability) AND removing all conditions which includes things like immobilize, poison, and chill which have nothing to do with condi builds, because power builds utilize those as well. Its not niche, its just even MORE effective against condi builds. Lyssa very much-so is op versus anything in comparison to other runes. Like if you add up what the whole set does, that single 6 piece bonus alone on a thief or warrior is better than most other rune sets. x.X

ronpierce.2760:

I can get defending lyssa because you need it to survive the meta… But really? It’s not niche… There’s nothing niche about a 48 second CD giving you all boons (including stability) AND removing all conditions which includes things like immobilize, poison, and chill which have nothing to do with condi builds, because power builds utilize those as well. Its not niche, its just even MORE effective against condi builds. Lyssa very much-so is op versus anything in comparison to other runes. Like if you add up what the whole set does, that single 6 piece bonus alone on a thief or warrior is better than most other rune sets. x.X

Agreed. There’s nothing niche when 4 professions use it extensively.

Agree that it is overpowered, talking about the (6) effect of course. I’d like to see a change like this:

(6) When you use an elite skill, lose all conditions. For every condition, gain one random boon for 5 seconds. (60s Cooldown… maybe even 90s)

Still a good panic-button for condi spikes, but not nearly as OP with low-recharge elites, and it would get more situational, just like all the other runes. I know that the last thing this game needs is more random stuff, but the main benefit should really be the cleansing. And that aspect would stay the same.

tetrodoxin.2134:

Agree that it is overpowered, talking about the (6) effect of course. I’d like to see a change like this:

(6) When you use an elite skill, lose all conditions. For every condition, gain one random boon for 5 seconds. (60s Cooldown… maybe even 90s)

Still a good panic-button for condi spikes, but not nearly as OP with low-recharge elites, and it would get more situational, just like all the other runes. I know that the last thing this game needs is more random stuff, but the main benefit should really be the cleansing. And that aspect would stay the same.

How about:

4 piece bonus: 5% chance when hit to create a healing spring that grants regeneration to nearby allies.
6 piece bonus: Activating a heal grants 1 random boon for 10 seconds.

Then it’s in line with all the other runes.

tetrodoxin.2134:

Agree that it is overpowered, talking about the (6) effect of course. I’d like to see a change like this:

(6) When you use an elite skill, lose all conditions. For every condition, gain one random boon for 5 seconds. (60s Cooldown… maybe even 90s)

Still a good panic-button for condi spikes, but not nearly as OP with low-recharge elites, and it would get more situational, just like all the other runes. I know that the last thing this game needs is more random stuff, but the main benefit should really be the cleansing. And that aspect would stay the same.

Personally, I actually like this the most. Sounds about how a rune set should.

Whats is the point on nerfing lyssa ? You guys want to have 1 less option ? There are already millions of crap to chose, you want 1 more ?

I dont even run lyssa runes, I dont think they are worthy enough but I really dont see any problem on lyssa. We should have more options not less...

fodem.2713:

Whats is the point on nerfing lyssa ? You guys want to have 1 less option ? There are already millions of crap to chose, you want 1 more ?

I dont even run lyssa runes, I dont think they are worthy enough but I really dont see any problem on lyssa. We should have more options not less…

Lyssa can’t be brought down to reasonable levels and others also brought up? Seems like the logical thing to prevent both a power creep and useless runes. o.O

Stability needs to go. At least the long duration ones.

Stability availability if it stays should be more like mantra of concentration’s 2 sec stability trigger.

CC should have DR.

Giving warriors stability with lyssa, on top of endure pain and berk stance/balanced stance is so ridiculously stupid.

I don’t even care about sword thieves, at least those get pressured off, but a signet heal warrior can just go " lalala for the next 8 seconds I’m gonna do the highest damage in the game by far on top of ridiculous CC and you can’t do anything about it".

it was 10 seconds before they changed it to 5 seconds right?

i remember it was 10 seconds all boons and not 5 seconds.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

it was 10 seconds before they changed it to 5 seconds right?

i remember it was 10 seconds all boons and not 5 seconds.

Used to be, yes. Still broken as hell.

Condi immunity+ cleansing ire+ full condi clear creates a huge gap of time where you can just wail on an opponent.

Play an axe/mace+hammer build and see how nobody can kite you for long. They either eat mace 5 ranged knockdown or waste a dodge on it and get cc’d to death by hammer’s gap closers.

If the warrior wants to be trollish he could even run Fear Me instead of one of the utilities and gain 3 free seconds of damage on a target.

In WvW it’s even more broke. Warriors run sword/shield+greatsword with the signet and some stances and if they don’t want to die they won’t. Just whirlwind/rush the hell out and good luck with anyone that wants to catch you because you can become immune to anything that could kill you.

All boons for 5 seconds. By the time I run at you it’s gone. Plus it’s one of the only way to counter these phi king no brain condi spam builds

Zenith.7301:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

it was 10 seconds before they changed it to 5 seconds right?

i remember it was 10 seconds all boons and not 5 seconds.

Used to be, yes.

so perhaps, could we say, that,

it was a bit overpowered in the past, with all boons at 10 seconds,
but now it is somewhat balanced, with all boons at 5 seconds.

yes?

Another issue is the fact that its unbalance between classes, a thief can have Basilisk venom on 36s cool down, while rangers shortest elite is on 120s.
Of course not every rune should be good for any class but the most OP one should.
Giving it ICD of 90s or even 120s is the perfect solution.

by the way, in sPvP, i use soldier runes for my warrior, not lyssa runes.

in PvE / WvW, i use +boon duration boons since soldier runes are expensive.
so i have +70% boon duration in PvE + 30% from trait, + 15% from superior runes, + 15% from superior runes, + 10% from major runes

and why is 5 seconds of all boons overpowered?

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Zenith.7301:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

it was 10 seconds before they changed it to 5 seconds right?

i remember it was 10 seconds all boons and not 5 seconds.

Used to be, yes.

so perhaps, could we say, that,

it was a bit overpowered in the past, with all boons at 10 seconds,
but now it is somewhat balanced, with all boons at 5 seconds.

yes?

No, we could say that it was overpowered and continues to be overpowered.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Zenith.7301:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

it was 10 seconds before they changed it to 5 seconds right?

i remember it was 10 seconds all boons and not 5 seconds.

Used to be, yes.

so perhaps, could we say, that,

it was a bit overpowered in the past, with all boons at 10 seconds,
but now it is somewhat balanced, with all boons at 5 seconds.

yes?

it was a bit evil in the past, killing 10 babies a day,
but now its somewhat ok, just killing 5.

yes?

Darnis.4056:

lollasaurus.1457:

Your right guys, these runes that have been in the game since launch are the true source of disbalance in this game.

There is some seriously disbalanced stuff in this game, Lyssa runes is not one of them. People only started using them because of the need for massive cleansing, condispam is the culprit here.

No Having a full cleanse / full boons on 35 second ICD is OP and must be nerfed. Lyssa needs an ICD of 90s or atleast 60s

Having a full cleanse every 35 seconds isnt OP when I can stack a full load of condis back on you within 15 seconds on an engi/necro. And the only class that has an elite up that soon is a thief with venoms traited, pretty terrible example.

L2P

Lyssa wouldn’t be considered so powerful if conditions weren’t so strong atm. The other bonuses aren’t very good.

Also, another reason so many players run it is because the other options just plain suck. I mean what else can you run? Ogre, Divinity, Soldier… Not many are even worth using.

People forget that this rune set got a huge buff when they nerfed corrupt boon on the necro. There used to be some risk to using it for this reason. Not anymore because you always keep the stability which is basically what matters

Rune set is balanced and ok. Elite cooldowns are not. Either every profession deserves a 60 sec cd elite, or all cd’s have to be upped to 90+ secs. That’s the only balance lyssa runes need.

Lyssa’s ICD for the 6th bonus is currently set at 45 seconds for your information.

This is literally complaining that some classes can take advantage of certain rune sets better than others so they want it nerfed. If the devs listened to you everything would be nerfed into the ground like thief/ele/ranger

clint.5681:

This is literally complaining that some classes can take advantage of certain rune sets better than others so they want it nerfed. If the devs listened to you everything would be nerfed into the ground like thief/ele/ranger

This is literally completely inaccurate.

Thedenofsin.7340:

clint.5681:

This is literally complaining that some classes can take advantage of certain rune sets better than others so they want it nerfed. If the devs listened to you everything would be nerfed into the ground like thief/ele/ranger

This is literally completely inaccurate.

Reread the thread, that is basically what most of the complaints have been about, that and the fact that people think thieves and certain classes shouldn’t have access to stability.

Most ppl QQing about lyssa are probably those classes that have to take an elite with a long cooldown while other classes with an elite with low cooldown can “spam” the benefits of lyssa. They probably don’t realize that for those classes lyssa is pretty much a MUST for basic survival. The reason why they need it is the condi meta So stop blaming lyssa runes, start QQ about condi meta ! But those that QQ about lyssa runes are probably those in favor for condi meta so yeaaaaah…

Elite skills….my ele one time heard rumors of such things, but never found any that were worthwhile. He just picks whichever one looks coolest on the skill-bar. Aren’t elites supposed to be those sub-par skills with unreasonable cooldowns, or is that just how they are designed on eles (like everything ele).

I must say, I do get jealous of people who can viably take lyssa and/or have a good elite ability, because it would really make ele more viable (condis are one of our many issues). The stability on warriors is also rediculous, but we dare not take that away: warriors need more buffs b/c they are already too hard to play.

Smiley.5376:

Most ppl QQing about lyssa are probably those classes that have to take an elite with a long cooldown while other classes with an elite with low cooldown can “spam” the benefits of lyssa. They probably don’t realize that for those classes lyssa is pretty much a MUST for basic survival. The reason why they need it is the condi meta So stop blaming lyssa runes, start QQ about condi meta ! But those that QQ about lyssa runes are probably those in favor for condi meta so yeaaaaah…

I’m for neither and hate powercreep so yeaaaaaaaaaaah……..

Nabbo.2845:

I think it’s OP because it greatly favors classes that can use an elite skill more often

This.

ronpierce.2760:

Smiley.5376:

Most ppl QQing about lyssa are probably those classes that have to take an elite with a long cooldown while other classes with an elite with low cooldown can “spam” the benefits of lyssa. They probably don’t realize that for those classes lyssa is pretty much a MUST for basic survival. The reason why they need it is the condi meta So stop blaming lyssa runes, start QQ about condi meta ! But those that QQ about lyssa runes are probably those in favor for condi meta so yeaaaaah…

I’m for neither and hate powercreep so yeaaaaaaaaaaah……..

Your an exception !

LOL No.

It’s especially fun on the classes that get spammable Elite skills, meanwhile some classes (like Ele) get their shortest Elite at 120s. So fun to fight Thieves with stability and protection every 45 seconds.

And that is called “Balanced”.

Its op and only benefits two classes: warrior and thief. Other runes simply do not compare to this one. As suggested, I think it needs a ICD. Maybe 90secs would work.

clint.5681:

Thedenofsin.7340:

clint.5681:

This is literally complaining that some classes can take advantage of certain rune sets better than others so they want it nerfed. If the devs listened to you everything would be nerfed into the ground like thief/ele/ranger

This is literally completely inaccurate.

Reread the thread, that is basically what most of the complaints have been about, that and the fact that people think thieves and certain classes shouldn’t have access to stability.

Reread the OP. That’s not what this thread is about.

TainoFuerte.8136:

LOL No.

It’s especially fun on the classes that get spammable Elite skills, meanwhile some classes (like Ele) get their shortest Elite at 120s. So fun to fight Thieves with stability and protection every 45 seconds.

And that is called “Balanced”.

Wow. You want to nerf the only thing that allows a thief to survive when entering a big fight.

Thedenofsin.7340:

clint.5681:

Thedenofsin.7340:

clint.5681:

This is literally complaining that some classes can take advantage of certain rune sets better than others so they want it nerfed. If the devs listened to you everything would be nerfed into the ground like thief/ele/ranger

This is literally completely inaccurate.

Reread the thread, that is basically what most of the complaints have been about, that and the fact that people think thieves and certain classes shouldn’t have access to stability.

Reread the OP. That’s not what this thread is about.

Now reread the thread and you will see some of the last comments in this thread is exactly what I said.

Smiley.5376:

Wow. You want to nerf the only thing that allows a thief to survive when entering a big fight.

I actually think you believe that.

If is OP just use it :/

Thedenofsin.7340:

• 5% chance on fire nova when hit
  • 3 second of burning on nearby foes on heal
• group swiftness on heal
• +5% damage when you have might
• when you use a heal, you and your allies gain 5 second of regeration

• when you use your elite skill, you lose all conditions and gain all buffs for 5 seconds*

The above is a sampling of the 6th rune bonus from runesets. Lyssa is listed last.

Is this really balanced? I see a lot of players running with it, and when they pop that elite, Lyssa acts like a mini-version of Endure Pain + Berserker Stance.

o.O