Guild Wars 2

Engis are close to eles in strength right now but their fix is much simpler in my opinion, just reduce hgh stacks duration and then re-evaluate their strength. Honestly I’m surprised that there is minimal qq about engis considering how powerful they are at the moment.

Maethar.5627:

Engis are close to eles in strength right now but their fix is much simpler in my opinion, just reduce hgh stacks duration and then re-evaluate their strength. Honestly I’m surprised that there is minimal qq about engis considering how powerful they are at the moment.

You do realize that that would just turn us into another warrior right. It’s honestly the only build we have at the moment that good enough to be in tournament, but at the same time yes I agree it’s really strong.

and here it begins…

Could we get some buffs to go with the nerfs please, and maybe something more substantial than a 5 sec cooldown reduction on a minor thing?

No buffs to HGH of course, to the OTHER builds.

Thanks.

Maethar.5627:

Engis are close to eles in strength right now but their fix is much simpler in my opinion, just reduce hgh stacks duration and then re-evaluate their strength. Honestly I’m surprised that there is minimal qq about engis considering how powerful they are at the moment.

Really…..why don’t you post your build and possibly a video of you losing to an engy?

I’ve never played a tournament where I felt that we were at a disadvantage if we weren’t running an engi and the other team was. It’s a strong build, but it’s not overpowered, especially compared to some other professions.

Maethar.5627:

I’m surprised that there is minimal qq about engis considering how powerful they are at the moment.

there would be more qq if they were as easy to play as d/d ele or BS thief or GS warrior.

Engi’s are quite good condition stackers… Even in my anti condition guardian build (runes of melandru shouts convert conditions to boons) an engi has the possibility of roflstomping me with conditions from bomb kit tool kit and/or elixir gun… Rarely see them running grenade kit anymore because the AOE portion of it is kinda hard for them to pull off…

The only thing I find over powered is bunker builds cause bunker stat scaling is way to high its cheese in tpvp and screws up wvw there should be a rule if you play badly you should die not hehe I am going to run in rings and heal cause no one can kill me.

jportell.2197:

Engi’s are quite good condition stackers… Even in my anti condition guardian build (runes of melandru shouts convert conditions to boons) an engi has the possibility of roflstomping me with conditions from bomb kit tool kit and/or elixir gun… Rarely see them running grenade kit anymore because the AOE portion of it is kinda hard for them to pull off…

I didn’t know engineers used elixir gun for condition stacking.

Man you really hate bunkers…. The reason there are bunkers is one GC (most bunkers tried to be DPSers but kept getting bursted by other classes) Guardians for instance have to rely heavily on boons and active defense because unlike ele’s they have terrible mobility, unlike thieves they don’t have stealth, so in PvP matches its kind of bunker or die… So healing for bunker guards and being a high tough low condition duration (self) is more than necessary… D/D eles go bunker because their trait lines for other builds are just inferior… Water 25 minor is a good way for them to couple that with really good damage. The second reason there are bunkers is the game mode… The game mode revolves around standing on a point… Being invisible makes the game treat you as if you arent there… So bunkers exist to stand in one spot and hold a point for as long as possible… Other game modes would help eliminate the lack of builds because classes have good builds that are viable… Just not viable inside the current game mode.

I can vouch that HGH condi builds aren’t OP and don’t need a nerf. Stop complaining and bring something to strip buffs. An engineer without might is worthless.

Oh boy, here it goes

jportell.2197:

Other game modes would help eliminate the lack of builds because classes have good builds that are viable… Just not viable inside the current game mode.

exactly this!

@Ostricheggs

That’s prolly your fault man.

We called it on the forum, Anet killed 100nade, they nerfed KR to oblivion, they nerfed smoke bomb ect. Now most people have to play HGH in tPvP, and people finally see HGH is one of the strongest build in the game right now.

100nades was subpart to HGH, yet people on the forum cried about it and posted erronous screenshot, making Anet REMOVE it.

Now you guys are stuck with HGH condi burst, it’s your own fault!

Seriously, I think HGH will get nerfed. It got nearly everything you need in a single build. Just like a DD elem but I bit less mobile/tanky.

It is legitly overpowered at the skill cap. However, the skill floor and skill cap in an HgH build are extremely high, arguably the highest in the game.

It is the only build to have the hardest and most reliably used skill shot. There is no comparison to the punishment one experiences when you miss a grenade. It is the central aspect of the build and piggybacks on its ability to deal both physical and condition damage via might stacks. It’s also the only class in the game that is solely reactionary. Very, very rarely do engineers actually determine the outcome of a fight based upon their abilities and forcing their opponents to react to it. The engineer is the one reacting themselves by nature of the class and build.

The simple fact of the matter is that it IS a very strong build and DOES need to be nerfed, but people need to understand that it is not a d/d elementalist. There are not five players in the entire world who can land grenades reliably and effectively play HgH at a decent skill level in tourneys.

As far as how to nerf it? That’s another story. Personally I think that nerfs to on swap sigils and might duration runes are the best way to go. Nade kit is the only thing in the entire game that fully takes advantage of might both via physical damage and condi damage. The insane damage of grenades needs to stay just because of its nature as the hardest skill shot in the game, but the insane-er damage of grenades with massive amounts of might stacks needs to go.

Maybe reduce the effect of on-swap sigils on engineers and eles? We can make the best of them because of how we operate with our “swaps”. We only need one sigil to make it work.

Also, burning is the hardest hitting condi in the game and engis are the only class that has a viable condi build that can reliably take advantage of its power. Most other classes with access to burning do not have a wide variety of other conditions to cover it.

It is time to nerf us? Again?

On the other hand. We get every patch a nerf so I will not be suprised

Ostricheggs.3742:

It is legitly overpowered at the skill cap. However, the skill floor and skill cap in an HgH build are extremely high, arguably the highest in the game.

It is the only build to have the hardest and most reliably used skill shot. There is no comparison to the punishment one experiences when you miss a grenade. It is the central aspect of the build and piggybacks on its ability to deal both physical and condition damage via might stacks. It’s also the only class in the game that is solely reactionary. Very, very rarely do engineers actually determine the outcome of a fight based upon their abilities and forcing their opponents to react to it. The engineer is the one reacting themselves by nature of the class and build.

The simple fact of the matter is that it IS a very strong build and DOES need to be nerfed, but people need to understand that it is not a d/d elementalist. There are not five players in the entire world who can land grenades reliably and effectively play HgH at a decent skill level in tourneys.

As far as how to nerf it? That’s another story. Personally I think that nerfs to on swap sigils and might duration runes are the best way to go. Nade kit is the only thing in the entire game that fully takes advantage of might both via physical damage and condi damage. The insane damage of grenades needs to stay just because of its nature as the hardest skill shot in the game, but the insane-er damage of grenades with massive amounts of might stacks needs to go.

Maybe reduce the effect of on-swap sigils on engineers and eles? We can make the best of them because of how we operate with our “swaps”. We only need one sigil to make it work.

Also, burning is the hardest hitting condi in the game and engis are the only class that has a viable condi build that can reliably take advantage of its power. Most other classes with access to burning do not have a wide variety of other conditions to cover it.

personally i think HGH engi is fine strong but not overpowered no reason to over think it or explain it people know. what makes them a problem in tpvp is the game mode we call conquest, it hard holding points with 2 HGH engis spamming grenades on point

recently lost to a team running 2 bunker guards and 2 HGH engis and a mesmer running repair kit on portal

cheesy and annoying but i wouldn’t say op we held our own

now where the real problem with engis does not come from the HGH build it comes from there overwhelming amount of useless utilities. why bring battering ram? when i get more cc using kits! turrents? pshhhhhh please.. too many skills not finding a place anywhere for the engi.

I dunno maiiin, HGH is pretty overpowered.

Hah That made my day.

The thread´s name shouldn´t be “It´s time to nerf engineers” but “engineers need another nerf” xD
I wouldn´t be surprised if there really would be another nerf to an awesome engineer build
After all 100nades is already gone. So is TEH aweshum KR. The omnomnthrower is lost (wvw) and do I have to mention the 30% damage nerf on the nade #1 a few months back?
It´s clear: Engineers need another nerf! … NOT!

But honestly guys, you had it coming.
You cried too much about the build that was definitely much easier to counter(100nades)
Now you´re stuck with HGH condiburst engis

Sigh, i know it would have happened someday…

Kline.9561:

Ostricheggs.3742:

It is legitly overpowered at the skill cap. However, the skill floor and skill cap in an HgH build are extremely high, arguably the highest in the game.

It is the only build to have the hardest and most reliably used skill shot. There is no comparison to the punishment one experiences when you miss a grenade. It is the central aspect of the build and piggybacks on its ability to deal both physical and condition damage via might stacks. It’s also the only class in the game that is solely reactionary. Very, very rarely do engineers actually determine the outcome of a fight based upon their abilities and forcing their opponents to react to it. The engineer is the one reacting themselves by nature of the class and build.

The simple fact of the matter is that it IS a very strong build and DOES need to be nerfed, but people need to understand that it is not a d/d elementalist. There are not five players in the entire world who can land grenades reliably and effectively play HgH at a decent skill level in tourneys.

As far as how to nerf it? That’s another story. Personally I think that nerfs to on swap sigils and might duration runes are the best way to go. Nade kit is the only thing in the entire game that fully takes advantage of might both via physical damage and condi damage. The insane damage of grenades needs to stay just because of its nature as the hardest skill shot in the game, but the insane-er damage of grenades with massive amounts of might stacks needs to go.

Maybe reduce the effect of on-swap sigils on engineers and eles? We can make the best of them because of how we operate with our “swaps”. We only need one sigil to make it work.

Also, burning is the hardest hitting condi in the game and engis are the only class that has a viable condi build that can reliably take advantage of its power. Most other classes with access to burning do not have a wide variety of other conditions to cover it.

personally i think HGH engi is fine strong but not overpowered no reason to over think it or explain it people know. what makes them a problem in tpvp is the game mode we call conquest, it hard holding points with 2 HGH engis spamming grenades on point

recently lost to a team running 2 bunker guards and 2 HGH engis and a mesmer running repair kit on portal

cheesy and annoying but i wouldn’t say op we held our own

now where the real problem with engis does not come from the HGH build it comes from there overwhelming amount of useless utilities. why bring battering ram? when i get more cc using kits! turrents? pshhhhhh please.. too many skills not finding a place anywhere for the engi.

HGH engies are really OP, maybe not as much as eles, but definitively OP.

They’re not OP till you run with rampagers, because you think “well, i die quickly after all”.

Then you start running with rabid+ might stacking runes and then you think " how can i dish so much damage ?!?! it’s ridicolous !!!".

But basically, what @Ostricheggs already said: HGH engies are skillshot at its finest, they should NEVER nerf it too much.

They should indeed nerf might stacking issues and it will be fine.

They just need to do one simple thing to fix HGH… Make the +20% might duration runes not stack

tapsumbong.6470:

As an engineer I have been waiting a while for the HGH nerf qq threads to start appearing. I just hope they at least give us some other buffs when they decide to nerf.

can u post your build?

I don’t want to judge, but I agree with OP. Certain bunker/grenades engi builds have to be nerfed. Some of them are just untouchable by melee characters. In fact, when I see proper Engineer both in tPvP and W3, I avoid him like fire. No other class gives me that much trouble, on warrior and necromancer. Even godmode eles are fairly easier, just time everything right. With engineer however… Shrink, shrink, shrink, 9999 buffs with high uptime, access to every single damage dealing condition and not only in game, ready to reapply every couple seconds. How are you supposed to kill it? Why Anet can’t make engineers to actually use some power builds(100 nades wasn’t that bad, very hard to land) with turrets? You’ve fixed warrior banners just a lil’ bit, but you have. Why don’t you improve turrets too?

I agree that the hgh/nades build is powerful. I’d be happy to see it nerfed sometime in the next couple years, but the meta is not ready for an HGH nerf yet.

Warriors have fallen off of the bottom of the viability list and thieves aren’t that far behind any more. Rangers were really really good for a while until EB got fixed. Necros are good but lack the condition variety needed to reliably take down an ele or guard. Mesmers are still very good but tend to lose duels in higher skill tiers.

So, unless we really want eles/guards to make up an even higher percentage of top-tier fights, HGH should remain as it is for the time being. HGH condi is basically a hard counter to pure bunker guards/eles, and yet almost every top-tier match still has a guard and ele per team. What would matches look like if their hard counter were nerfed?

Kline.9561:

personally i think HGH engi is fine strong but not overpowered no reason to over think it or explain it people know. what makes them a problem in tpvp is the game mode we call conquest, it hard holding points with 2 HGH engis spamming grenades on point

recently lost to a team running 2 bunker guards and 2 HGH engis and a mesmer running repair kit on portal

cheesy and annoying but i wouldn’t say op we held our own

now where the real problem with engis does not come from the HGH build it comes from there overwhelming amount of useless utilities. why bring battering ram? when i get more cc using kits! turrents? pshhhhhh please.. too many skills not finding a place anywhere for the engi.

Was the problem the Engies or the Mesmer running the kit? Because, the HGH engies I’ve faced were easily dealt with by me just spamming auto attack on my Elixir Gun (backed up by Incendiary Ammo from FT of course).

HGH engies can easily be countered. To me they are not OP, they are just a nuisance if left alive. Just like Bomb Engies or Mesmers or Necros.

You do know that engis have been consistently nerfed? Yes HGH condis is strong (in the current meta) but it keeps bunkers in check- imagine trying to kill an ele or guardy if it gets nerfed.

Nerf nerf Nerf nerf.

Hgh is quite strong, im all for it being toned down a bit when they manage to give us another spec worth playing.

HGH is a little OP atm but nothing egregious really. 2 simple fixes are all that’s needed IMO.

1.) Fix Lyssa Runes – if they were only granting 10% condi duration like it states rather than the 20% that it actually is, then there’s no more second ticks of burning from Incendiary Powder while still maintaining 70% might duration.

2.) Shrapnel grenade Bleed duration – reduce it by half. It’s obscenely long atm for a 5 stack of bleeds than can be reapplied twice more before the initial 5 bleeds wear off.

There needs to be some serious work done for other builds though. Engi’s are wearing thin on build options and successive nerfs aren’t the way to punish the class with arguably the highest skill floor.

I also think there is some L2P involved as the meta appears to be shifting a bit. Most people are accustomed to building around countering burst, not condis. While we’re probably exposing some serious deficiencies in some class designs regarding condis and cleansing, a lot of the problems people are having is very much self induced. I see it all the time and laugh when rangers nuke themselves from confusion, or Ele’s just spam all the buttons throwing their water attune on cd before I’ve even unloaded my condis on them. Just stupid things like that. People will adjust though and condi’s won’t seem so overwhelming.

as a ranger running every condition cleansing skill and trait available i still die to this build, it is the top 1v1 spec right now because most classes don’t have condi-removal that can handle their output even building all the way into condi-removal, and for the few who do, the engi is doing pretty decent direct dmg too and you’re devoting so much to anti-condition that you’re not much of a threat – exception is burst classes, but engi has nice cc and burst mitigation too.

hackks.3687:

2.) Shrapnel grenade Bleed duration – reduce it by half. It’s obscenely long atm for a 5 stack of bleeds than can be reapplied twice more before the initial 5 bleeds wear off.

It’s actually a 3-stack of bleed (2 without the grandmaster trait.)

a little bit of it is learning the build, I think a lot of ppl just don’t know how to fight vs a hgh engy. However, it really is a strong build so its not purely people needing to l2p.

HAHAHA. Oh man, this thread actually happened.

jportell.2197:

Other game modes would help eliminate the lack of builds because classes have good builds that are viable… Just not viable inside the current game mode.

I really agree with this. The Spirit Watch map is probably the best case of this. One of my Engineer setups does nothing but toss people off of his back. Rifle, Throw Mine, Elixir C, Supply Crate, Bomb Kit (which comes with Big Ol’ Bomb, Smoke Bomb and Sticky Bomb). I’ve used Med Kit, but Heal Turret with Accelerant Packed Turrets knocks people off just as well. It’s a setup entirely for knocking people away from me. And it works when I have the orb, babysitting people with the orb, knocking people with the Orb away, disrupting fights, and the like. Low on the damage end, but no one kills me because Cleric’s Amulet takes care of me.

But from skating across other boards, and sitting around the Engineer forum mainly, everyone seems to focus on damage all the time. Killing people is the simplest solution to relieve pressures. To the point where the entire game is filled with bloodthirsty players. Half the time, I’ve been focusing on finding ways to run away and stay alive. Simply because I know people will chase and my teammates can capture points from behind. I don’t know, maybe it’s because I’m still playing low levels and hotjoins but people are like this.

If there were different PvP modes, we could probably get more builds rotating since there’d be more reasons to do things other than just vomit damage all over opponents. Spirit Watch was a step in the right direction. For me, at least. Just keep doing it. That way, I can make more CC setups for them and laugh at people who fall off of cliffs and bridges.

(Please add more cliffs and bridges for people to fall from)

hackks.3687:

People will adjust though and condi’s won’t seem so overwhelming.

This is the other thing that needs to happen. Maybe it’s because I focus on support a lot but a good amount of the time that I’m down, I’m studying the skills that opponent’s are using to beat me, and figuring out what I’d need to avoid or block or trigger some kind of cc to counter. Sometimes I swap a skill out simply because it’ll help me against “That One Guy” who roams the map trying to kill me. I like CC and knockdowns and watching people die around me simply because I was the wrong person to focus.

HGH is countered by boon removal. Want to counter it? Here
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Boon#Skills_that_remove_boons
Half of the professions do this. (One of them is the Engineer themselves, dohoho. Better carry that Throw Mine.) How often do they take those skills? Who knows? Null Field those 20 stacks of Might, all of the conditions he’s inflicted, and go back to start. Too long of a CD? Use Shattered Concentration. Take Bountiful Theft and steal those stacks for yourself. A quick Corrupt Boon can turn the tide against an HGH. But even that can be easily reversed with an Elixir C, but like I said. Who knows?

Engineer was the least played class, last I heard. So even if HGH becomes rampant, it won’t be that prominent. However, you could probably hazard a guess that the majority of the ones you see, especially in tPvP, will be spitting out conditions and cleansing their own, while gaining might, all game. You will see very little else.

There are two problems with the HGH condi build:

1. It’s too well rounded, you don’t have to sacrifice anything. Ironically enough virtually all the other Engineer builds have the exact opposite issue, you have to specialize to even do kinda ok at the thing you’re specializing in yet still retain considerable weaknesses thanks to the hybrid tax.

The conclusion is pretty simple: To adjust the build, ANet need to target it very specifically rather than carpet bombing the class again like they love to do if anyone comes up with a way to build around the inbuilt deficiencies.

2. The build can overwhelm even dedicated condition cleansers without too much trouble. This is a meta game problem and will have to be solved accordingly.

Unfortunately we’ll probably see another blanket nerf, hurting other builds much more than HGH…Remember that there are other way to stack might as Engineer for example and that users of Enhanced Performance or AoE might stacking through bombs and FT would be completely destroyed by nerfs to might duration runes.

Whats so tough about HgH?
People overratin everything these days.

ensoriki.5789:

Whats so tough about HgH?
People overratin everything these days.

This is our last build. Some people are just satisfite when we dead.

Quite honestly, I think Engineer is a tougher class to play than most. the majority of the engineers I see know how to play them because many who come into sPvP and try fail miserably. (Including me!)

Sometimes people mistake good play for a class being OP. It’s an honest mistake.

I can’t land skillshots for my life.
I play boon-stripping mine engineer.
But as it’s been said – people brought HGH nades on themselves by whining about 100nades. So naturally “bloodthirsty” moved to our last resort. I dread Anet’s reaction ’cause I know better than hope for anything adequate.

blurps.2340:

There are two problems with the HGH condi build:

1. It’s too well rounded, you don’t have to sacrifice anything. Ironically enough virtually all the other Engineer builds have the exact opposite issue, you have to specialize to even do kinda ok at the thing you’re specializing in yet still retain considerable weaknesses thanks to the hybrid tax.

The conclusion is pretty simple: To adjust the build, ANet need to target it very specifically rather than carpet bombing the class again like they love to do if anyone comes up with a way to build around the inbuilt deficiencies.

2. The build can overwhelm even dedicated condition cleansers without too much trouble. This is a meta game problem and will have to be solved accordingly.

Unfortunately we’ll probably see another blanket nerf, hurting other builds much more than HGH…Remember that there are other way to stack might as Engineer for example and that users of Enhanced Performance or AoE might stacking through bombs and FT would be completely destroyed by nerfs to might duration runes.

Actually, HGH nades is a hyper-specialized build that’s not rounded at all. It has:

—zero interrupts
—zero support
—a ton of conditions.

Your second point is technically correct. This is a build that can finally counterbalance bunker eles and guards. Why is that a bad thing, again?

NevirSayDie.6235:

blurps.2340:

There are two problems with the HGH condi build:

1. It’s too well rounded, you don’t have to sacrifice anything. Ironically enough virtually all the other Engineer builds have the exact opposite issue, you have to specialize to even do kinda ok at the thing you’re specializing in yet still retain considerable weaknesses thanks to the hybrid tax.

The conclusion is pretty simple: To adjust the build, ANet need to target it very specifically rather than carpet bombing the class again like they love to do if anyone comes up with a way to build around the inbuilt deficiencies.

2. The build can overwhelm even dedicated condition cleansers without too much trouble. This is a meta game problem and will have to be solved accordingly.

Unfortunately we’ll probably see another blanket nerf, hurting other builds much more than HGH…Remember that there are other way to stack might as Engineer for example and that users of Enhanced Performance or AoE might stacking through bombs and FT would be completely destroyed by nerfs to might duration runes.

Actually, HGH nades is a hyper-specialized build that’s not rounded at all. It has:

—zero interrupts
—zero support
—a ton of conditions.

Your second point is technically correct. This is a build that can finally counterbalance bunker eles and guards. Why is that a bad thing, again?

It’s bad cuz it’s an unstoppable killing machine with unrivaled potential that hasn’t been reached by any player to date. It does have its weaknesses and right now I think a-net should work on bringing sub-par classes, utilities and trait lines up to par, but in the current meta it’s hard not to consider an HGH engi OP.

Ostricheggs.3742:

NevirSayDie.6235:

blurps.2340:

There are two problems with the HGH condi build:

1. It’s too well rounded, you don’t have to sacrifice anything. Ironically enough virtually all the other Engineer builds have the exact opposite issue, you have to specialize to even do kinda ok at the thing you’re specializing in yet still retain considerable weaknesses thanks to the hybrid tax.

The conclusion is pretty simple: To adjust the build, ANet need to target it very specifically rather than carpet bombing the class again like they love to do if anyone comes up with a way to build around the inbuilt deficiencies.

2. The build can overwhelm even dedicated condition cleansers without too much trouble. This is a meta game problem and will have to be solved accordingly.

Unfortunately we’ll probably see another blanket nerf, hurting other builds much more than HGH…Remember that there are other way to stack might as Engineer for example and that users of Enhanced Performance or AoE might stacking through bombs and FT would be completely destroyed by nerfs to might duration runes.

Actually, HGH nades is a hyper-specialized build that’s not rounded at all. It has:

—zero interrupts
—zero support
—a ton of conditions.

Your second point is technically correct. This is a build that can finally counterbalance bunker eles and guards. Why is that a bad thing, again?

It’s bad cuz it’s an unstoppable killing machine with unrivaled potential that hasn’t been reached by any player to date. It does have its weaknesses and right now I think a-net should work on bringing sub-par classes, utilities and trait lines up to par, but in the current meta it’s hard not to consider an HGH engi OP.

hey i watched your stream last night and saw 2 games vs Satarractomey’s team and their ele was owning you at your treb and you had to run away or get team help every time. Was he just really good or what?

you were running rifle/nade though not p/p

Ostricheggs.3742:

It’s bad cuz it’s an unstoppable killing machine with unrivaled potential that hasn’t been reached by any player to date. It does have its weaknesses and right now I think a-net should work on bringing sub-par classes, utilities and trait lines up to par, but in the current meta it’s hard not to consider an HGH engi OP.

You’re correct, as usual, but my point was that it is only good at one thing (damage). Zero interrupts, zero support.

My other point is that even though HGH engies are good, teams still rely on guardians and eles as the backbone of their composition. How many eles would each team bring if HGH nades was removed?

I’d say we need more builds that can’t be “stopped”—i.e. bunkers can’t sustain through their damage indefinitely. Eles are still amazing, even though they have a counter now. It’s a bad idea to just nerf a counter-build while the thing it was supposed to counter is still very strong.

Sprawl.3891:

Ostricheggs.3742:

NevirSayDie.6235:

blurps.2340:

There are two problems with the HGH condi build:

1. It’s too well rounded, you don’t have to sacrifice anything. Ironically enough virtually all the other Engineer builds have the exact opposite issue, you have to specialize to even do kinda ok at the thing you’re specializing in yet still retain considerable weaknesses thanks to the hybrid tax.

The conclusion is pretty simple: To adjust the build, ANet need to target it very specifically rather than carpet bombing the class again like they love to do if anyone comes up with a way to build around the inbuilt deficiencies.

2. The build can overwhelm even dedicated condition cleansers without too much trouble. This is a meta game problem and will have to be solved accordingly.

Unfortunately we’ll probably see another blanket nerf, hurting other builds much more than HGH…Remember that there are other way to stack might as Engineer for example and that users of Enhanced Performance or AoE might stacking through bombs and FT would be completely destroyed by nerfs to might duration runes.

Actually, HGH nades is a hyper-specialized build that’s not rounded at all. It has:

—zero interrupts
—zero support
—a ton of conditions.

Your second point is technically correct. This is a build that can finally counterbalance bunker eles and guards. Why is that a bad thing, again?

It’s bad cuz it’s an unstoppable killing machine with unrivaled potential that hasn’t been reached by any player to date. It does have its weaknesses and right now I think a-net should work on bringing sub-par classes, utilities and trait lines up to par, but in the current meta it’s hard not to consider an HGH engi OP.

hey i watched your stream last night and saw 2 games vs Satarractomey’s team and their ele was owning you at your treb and you had to run away or get team help every time. Was he just really good or what?

you were running rifle/nade though not p/p

Yea, vexeus is probably the best ele in the game. He’s amazingly good. I beat him a lot though when I run condis, rifle is just to down treb and has a lot of weaknesses against an ele. It’s a catch 22, down the treb that sataar always repairs or go condis and kill vexeus :|

Really it comes down to the eles sustain and large armor in valk. I think he was running zerkers the first game I fought him and ended up killing him a few times. It’s a difficult fight where an engi needs to play beyond perfectly, both rifle and condis.

you were playing your treb though?

There is no way this build should be nerfed.. A pro HGH engi essentially needs to play the piano through the whole match. This is not just button mashing but using elixers in a certain pattern based on the scenerio. There are many other classes with optimal builds and player skill that take down HGH engies all the time.

Bottom line is the HGH build is powerful, but only as powerful as the skill of the player. There are many other mindless builds that other classes utalize that are OP compared to the skill required with HGH.

Try playing the HGH build before you cry about it. It’s not just mashing buttons its composing and that is why it should not be nerfed.

Just because u have lost to it does not state it is OP.

Oh kitten someone is stronger than thief or mesmer!
NERF NERF NERF NERF

If they spedd up the boon hate mechanic , they could reduce the HGH might stacking duration by half , so we cant achive the 25 stacks .
Guardians-Eng and any lesser tank , should have weakness to conditions
And Elemental-Rangers to boon hate mechanic

I was playing my engy a lot yesterday and I noticed that a couple of times, I would use my #2 down skill which pulls people to you, and can interrupt someone finishing you and they would go for a finisher and I would use it and it would say “miss”. That really makes me angry, how do you miss someone not moving and standing on top of you, and no he didn’t have any boons active wasn’t even a guardian it was a ranger. So I think it should be time to FIX engineers, #2 downed state.

That’s like using dancing dagger and someone is running straight and you use that skill and it says something similar too (there goes 4 of my adrenaline, and even though he has maxed out precision he cant even hit someone running straight).

Lupanic.6502:

It is time to nerf us? Again?

On the other hand. We get every patch a nerf so I will not be suprised

are you a thief?