Guild Wars 2

Hgh engies can survive longer vs conditions.
Mesmers cant survive longer against power.

On average.

Average damage? It’s extreme condition damage with good sustained and a long boon uptime and condition duration uptime with good Condi removal… This build is above average by a long shot

Engineers have been handled so badly for so long that very few people are used to playing against them. Now engineer finally has 1 build that isn’t a complete 1 trick pony or seriously sub-par.

Engineer needs another couple of builds at least brought up to viability and their largely untouched 20page buglist from release finally given some attention. (I’m not claiming other classes don’t need attention too, the balance team is clearly severely understaffed and massively over worked – GW2 is one of the more glaring examples of ‘economising’ on balance devs having a sweeping impact across the entire MMO)

Once the engineer population has come back from the edge of extinction, and people have got some playtime against them e.g. actually realise that the icon doesn’t mean elementalist etc, then maybe it would be time to review the Meta. With the clear proviso that engineers should be allowed to have one or more builds that aren’t garbage.

I suppose I’ll add my two cents on the topic.

If an engi is using all his elixirs on cooldown in order to stack might pre-fight, that means most of them aren’t ready for the condition cleanse when a nasty burn or immobilize is up. I’d also like to add that outside of the 409 trait, engineers have awful condi cleansing with the exception of Elixir C. Secondly, engineers only real option for high damage is might stacking. We have 3 traits designed for stacking might, 2 of them being 30 point traits (HGH and Juggernaut). Traits that high are meant to have builds made around them. I fear that nerfing HGH further would only add to our list of completely useless traits. The only way a nerf to the engineer’s ability to stack might would be justified is if we got a damage buff to nearly every skill we have. Until that happens, this kind of stuff is what you should expect from an engineer, unless they opt to be a 3rd rate bunker

As some others have alluded to in previous posts, I think it’s more a matter of burst taking a huge nerf (by-bye haste) in the last patch, in addition to some broken condi cleanses being fixed, that have acted as a two-fold indirect buff to conditions. Previously condis could be removed by some classes far too fast and far too easily and this dominated the meta game. As well, burst can be a serious counter to condition/attrition fights – burst just kills people faster than condis do – and with the haste nerf burst has obviously been reduced significantly.

Given this improved condi performance, it now appears to be exposing some serious flaws in common builds that lack condition removal, and possibly even condition removal deficiencies within some classes as a whole. Taking a build into tPvP though with little to no condition removal and then complaining about dying to conditions is just ridiculous.

If anything, might stacking runes in general could probably use a little toning down the same way + protection/boon duration runes were addressed previously. The Lyssa runes were already fixed in a ninja patch earlier this week, so the condi dmg has already begun to taper off a little bit.

Some classes have no access to Condi removal. Mesmers for instance… If we bring Condi removal we have .1 stun break and the condition removal is on long cooldown. An engi with this build on this map can might stack before leaving the gate faceroll the mob and go support mid at that point most of the elicits are.off CD and he is AOK for clearing conditions in the.bout for mid

jportell.2197:

Some classes have no access to Condi removal. Mesmers for instance… If we bring Condi removal we have .1 stun break and the condition removal is on long cooldown. An engi with this build on this map can might stack before leaving the gate faceroll the mob and go support mid at that point most of the elicits are.off CD and he is AOK for clearing conditions in the.bout for mid

2 stun breaks (illusionary leap), 2 invulns (three if you count the reset), a daze, a teleport on staff, a stun on your offhand, perma vigor on a minor 5 point trait (everyone seems to forget this one), energy sigils.

You have more dodges and invulns than I can comprehend. While I agree that you have to sacrifice something for condi clear, if you don’t do it then you’re probably gonna die in a teamfight. If you DO take nullfield over IOL you’ll be fine, I swear to god it’s a good utility. I don’t understand why mesmers don’t drop it when they see an engi. It’s not worth it to eat a shrapnel and slowly bleed out over 15 seconds.

1v1s are a different story if you’re a stellar mesmer. I get beat a good 90% of the time by top mesmers in a straight up “duel”, albeit those situations are extremely rare. That’s even without nullfield, just straight up me getting buttkittened

Ostricheggs.3742:

jportell.2197:

Some classes have no access to Condi removal. Mesmers for instance… If we bring Condi removal we have .1 stun break and the condition removal is on long cooldown. An engi with this build on this map can might stack before leaving the gate faceroll the mob and go support mid at that point most of the elicits are.off CD and he is AOK for clearing conditions in the.bout for mid

2 stun breaks (illusionary leap), 2 invulns (three if you count the reset), a daze, a teleport on staff, a stun on your offhand, perma vigor on a minor 5 point trait (everyone seems to forget this one), energy sigils.

You have more dodges and invulns than I can comprehend. While I agree that you have to sacrifice something for condi clear, if you don’t do it then you’re probably gonna die in a teamfight. If you DO take nullfield over IOL you’ll be fine, I swear to god it’s a good utility. I don’t understand why mesmers don’t drop it when they see an engi. It’s not worth it to eat a shrapnel and slowly bleed out over 15 seconds.

1v1s are a different story if you’re a stellar mesmer. I get beat a good 90% of the time by top mesmers in a straight up “duel”, albeit those situations are extremely rare. That’s even without nullfield, just straight up me getting buttkittened

ILeap is not a stunbreak only the swap is if you were lucky enough to get the clone out before you were stunned so it still leaves us with bad options and null field is stationary so any number of classes can push/pull us out of the ring and the duration isn’t as long as the tooltip states also don’t engineers have an elixir that refills endurance and breaks stun while also being a good insta rez because it can be used on self and its not temporary which makes it more useful than IOL. This build doesn’t use it which meh but its still a good option to take over elixir S if so chosen… And on top of being a stun break and an insta res it still gives might anod removes conditions… And for duels I imagine supply crate would work wonders against a mesmer the.only reason they are better 1v1 is they build differently than for tourneys mainly in their utilities.

Ostricheggs.3742:

jportell.2197:

Some classes have no access to Condi removal. Mesmers for instance… If we bring Condi removal we have .1 stun break and the condition removal is on long cooldown. An engi with this build on this map can might stack before leaving the gate faceroll the mob and go support mid at that point most of the elicits are.off CD and he is AOK for clearing conditions in the.bout for mid

2 stun breaks (illusionary leap), 2 invulns (three if you count the reset), a daze, a teleport on staff, a stun on your offhand, perma vigor on a minor 5 point trait (everyone seems to forget this one), energy sigils.

You have more dodges and invulns than I can comprehend. While I agree that you have to sacrifice something for condi clear, if you don’t do it then you’re probably gonna die in a teamfight. If you DO take nullfield over IOL you’ll be fine, I swear to god it’s a good utility. I don’t understand why mesmers don’t drop it when they see an engi. It’s not worth it to eat a shrapnel and slowly bleed out over 15 seconds.

1v1s are a different story if you’re a stellar mesmer. I get beat a good 90% of the time by top mesmers in a straight up “duel”, albeit those situations are extremely rare. That’s even without nullfield, just straight up me getting buttkittened

Incidentally you said just a few days ago you win 90% of your 1v1 fights against any and every profession because your HGH Engie kills easily and without remorse.

I don’t think mesmers are over powered in competitive team play but by all means, I think mesmer is the last class that should be QQing about engineers.

edit: The only class that truly gets the right to QQ at the moment is warrior.

waka.9826:

I don’t think mesmers are over powered in competitive team play but by all means, I think mesmer is the last class that should be QQing about engineers.

edit: The only class that truly gets the right to QQ at the moment is warrior.

Warrior has better inherent Condi removal than mesmer… Every class has some condi removal in one or more their heal skills EXCEPT mesmer in order for us to get condition removal that can maybe hold a.candle to others is by using two utility slots and 10pts in a trait line that has no place in most shatter builds… And mesmer should be one of the first classes screaming about the obscene overpoweredness of this build because if a full healing shout guard gets melted how is a mesmer with the.worst Condi removal in this game supposed to handle it?

jportell.2197:

waka.9826:

I don’t think mesmers are over powered in competitive team play but by all means, I think mesmer is the last class that should be QQing about engineers.

edit: The only class that truly gets the right to QQ at the moment is warrior.

Warrior has better inherent Condi removal than mesmer… Every class has some condi removal in one or more their heal skills EXCEPT mesmer in order for us to get condition removal that can maybe hold a.candle to others is by using two utility slots and 10pts in a trait line that has no place in most shatter builds… And mesmer should be one of the first classes screaming about the obscene overpoweredness of this build because if a full healing shout guard gets melted how is a mesmer with the.worst Condi removal in this game supposed to handle it?

So just because warrior can remove a few condi’s the class is better off than the mesmer?

Oh you don’t say…..

I find it offensive and down right idiotic that warrior’s get brought into this argument to support this idiot’s claim.

If you had any inclination of how stupid you sound I would hope to god you would do the community a favor and break your fingers so badly that you are unable to communicate in readable words on these forums in the future.

aydenunited.5729:

Ostricheggs.3742:

jportell.2197:

Some classes have no access to Condi removal. Mesmers for instance… If we bring Condi removal we have .1 stun break and the condition removal is on long cooldown. An engi with this build on this map can might stack before leaving the gate faceroll the mob and go support mid at that point most of the elicits are.off CD and he is AOK for clearing conditions in the.bout for mid

2 stun breaks (illusionary leap), 2 invulns (three if you count the reset), a daze, a teleport on staff, a stun on your offhand, perma vigor on a minor 5 point trait (everyone seems to forget this one), energy sigils.

You have more dodges and invulns than I can comprehend. While I agree that you have to sacrifice something for condi clear, if you don’t do it then you’re probably gonna die in a teamfight. If you DO take nullfield over IOL you’ll be fine, I swear to god it’s a good utility. I don’t understand why mesmers don’t drop it when they see an engi. It’s not worth it to eat a shrapnel and slowly bleed out over 15 seconds.

1v1s are a different story if you’re a stellar mesmer. I get beat a good 90% of the time by top mesmers in a straight up “duel”, albeit those situations are extremely rare. That’s even without nullfield, just straight up me getting buttkittened

Incidentally you said just a few days ago you win 90% of your 1v1 fights against any and every profession because your HGH Engie kills easily and without remorse.

I do. I’m talking about “duels”

waka.9826:

jportell.2197:

waka.9826:

I don’t think mesmers are over powered in competitive team play but by all means, I think mesmer is the last class that should be QQing about engineers.

edit: The only class that truly gets the right to QQ at the moment is warrior.

Warrior has better inherent Condi removal than mesmer… Every class has some condi removal in one or more their heal skills EXCEPT mesmer in order for us to get condition removal that can maybe hold a.candle to others is by using two utility slots and 10pts in a trait line that has no place in most shatter builds… And mesmer should be one of the first classes screaming about the obscene overpoweredness of this build because if a full healing shout guard gets melted how is a mesmer with the.worst Condi removal in this game supposed to handle it?

So just because warrior can remove a few condi’s the class is better off than the mesmer?

Oh you don’t say…..

Against this build yes… They are better especially in a team fight

AlBundy.7851:

I find it offensive and down right idiotic that warrior’s get brought into this argument to support this idiot’s claim.

If you had any inclination of how stupid you sound I would hope to god you would do the community a favor and break your fingers so badly that you are unable to communicate in readable words on these forums in the future.

Okay there Shirley warriors have better condition removal their issues are elsewhere. But compared to mesmers their options to remove conditions are better making them more likely to survive a team fight where the other team has one of these guys lobbing AOE conditions into the fight

you have got be kidding me…

you run a cheesy wtfbbq face-roll build that invests every trait point into power, precision, and crit damage and for some reason that means “you don’t have access to condition cleansing”? And then you call a condition build OP?

Just stop posting. Please.

hackks.3687:

you have got be kidding me…

you run a cheesy wtfbbq face-roll build that invests every trait point into power, precision, and crit damage and for some reason that means “you don’t have access to condition cleansing”? And then you call a condition build OP?

Just stop posting. Please.

See the thing here is every other class can run a cheesy omg faceroll build but still have some conditon removal IN THEIR HEAL SKILL! And even when fully hunkered down a mesmer is worse with condi removal than most
Others because even the minor trait that removes with heal skills only removes ONE! So in a TEAM fight warriors will be better off against an HGH than even a full bunker mes

jportell.2197:

hackks.3687:

you have got be kidding me…

you run a cheesy wtfbbq face-roll build that invests every trait point into power, precision, and crit damage and for some reason that means “you don’t have access to condition cleansing”? And then you call a condition build OP?

Just stop posting. Please.

See the thing here is every other class can run a cheesy omg faceroll build but still have some conditon removal IN THEIR HEAL SKILL! And even when fully hunkered down a mesmer is worse with condi removal than most
Others because even the minor trait that removes with heal skills only removes ONE! So in a TEAM fight warriors will be better off against an HGH than even a full bunker mes

Maybe because of all of mesmers 10000000000000000 built in damage mitigation / prevention?

Seems like a fair trade off if you ask me

jportell.2197:

hackks.3687:

you have got be kidding me…

you run a cheesy wtfbbq face-roll build that invests every trait point into power, precision, and crit damage and for some reason that means “you don’t have access to condition cleansing”? And then you call a condition build OP?

Just stop posting. Please.

See the thing here is every other class can run a cheesy omg faceroll build but still have some conditon removal IN THEIR HEAL SKILL! And even when fully hunkered down a mesmer is worse with condi removal than most
Others because even the minor trait that removes with heal skills only removes ONE! So in a TEAM fight warriors will be better off against an HGH than even a full bunker mes

which builds are these uber face-roll-spend-every-point-in-offensive-trait-lines yet-still-have-reliable-cleansing-builds again?

You’re telling me you can’t find 10 pts from somewhere for Mender’s Purity? You can’t find a utility slot for Null Field or Arcane Thievery? There’s absolutely zero wiggle room in Mesmer’s build viability to afford using the right tools for the job? Clearly shatter needs a hardy nerf then as mesmers are far too dependent on it, so that ANET can best decide how the rest of the skills can be buffed to adequacy.

Make a note Devs! Mesmers are too dependent on Shatter! Sounds like Warriors and Haste all over again to me! Let’s nip this in the bud sooner rather than later!

lol peole are still going on about that.. hahaha i got the perfect solution

1. Nerf HGH
2. Nerf Mug & fix Blinding Powder + Heartseeker BUG so the mechanic works as intended.
3. Add a 1-3s cool down on which a mesmer can’t create illusions after using shatters.
4. Reduce base healing from ele’s spells/traits, and increase % with healing power.
5. Make Ranger’s Pets stop ressing if they are CC far away or DIE…

Pretty sure all the others are more important than HGH, but if people are gonna cry cause engineer learnt to fight back and not be food anymore. might as well balance the game properly over all.

google.3709:

lol peole are still going on about that.. hahaha i got the perfect solution

1. Nerf HGH
2. Nerf Mug & fix Blinding Powder + Heartseeker BUG so the mechanic works as intended.
3. Add a 1-3s cool down on which a mesmer can’t create illusions after using shatters.
4. Reduce base healing from ele’s spells/traits, and increase % with healing power.
5. Make Ranger’s Pets stop ressing if they are CC far away or DIE…

Pretty sure all the others are more important than HGH, but if people are gonna cry cause engineer learnt to fight back and not be food anymore. might as well balance the game properly over all.

The Blinding Powder Combo grants stealth AFTER the animation is done… Meaning if the thief gets the HS interrupted he doesn’t get stealth and the initiative is wasted and that is a very initiative heavy build. A mug/BS thief is about all they can do after that they are fairly fragile (Still have better condition removal then mesmers though!)
Mesmers have a GCD on shatters that was a stupid band aid fix to prevent a macro there will never be a cooldown on creating illusions after shatters because if that were to happen several other on dodge traits would need nerfed big time such as the guardian heal on dodge traits which for a bunker is a HUGE heal, All thief on dodge traits should also be subsequently nerfed so that is might, caltrops, swiftness the removing conditions one has a CD but that has been there for quite some time… Evasive arcana has a CD because it is the strongest on dodge trait in this game….

Rangers pet’s is an entire AI issue as well with necro minions this is because they are tied to the ranger and not the target… The downed state is an issue but not to the extent where it would turn an entire fight around it is only really bad in 1v1 situations. Ele base healing isn’t all that much plus their main build is invested heavily into healing power and in general their damage isn’t as insane unless they are the same traits but way more power based runes/sigil/amulet… Then you should worry about their power but that build doesn’t have the gnarly healing power of cleric’s eles.

And none of these are as over the top as an HGH engi because in general none of these builds can fulfill more than one role at a time…. The HGH build has somewhat decent group support through thrown elixirs that can help remove conditions from allies Supply crate AOE stun plus group immobilize and regen will completely turn a fight I have been running to a point and saw a bunker engaged in a 2v1 on my team… Dropped supply crate and he wound up stomping both attackers… This is way better than timewarp (now)/mass invis/lich form/tornado form or just about any other elite in this game and if you disagree then you have your head in a body orifice and should prolly get it looked at. Then add to that the might stacking and better then most but not best condition removal in this game you have a build that is over the top… if might didn’t affect condition damage this build would become what most other condition builds are… If might runes didn’t stack increasing the duration by an insane amount (70% boon duration increase after you add everything up) then this build wouldn’t do as much damage but still be on par with others… Everything added together is what makes this build to much the guaranteed condition damage from nearly every attack, the guaranteed might stacks with an extremely long duration the condition removal all of it makes this build over the top and a couple aspects of it need to be nerfed. It is not hard to pull off and there are almost no hard counters to it…

hackks.3687:

jportell.2197:

hackks.3687:

you have got be kidding me…

you run a cheesy wtfbbq face-roll build that invests every trait point into power, precision, and crit damage and for some reason that means “you don’t have access to condition cleansing”? And then you call a condition build OP?

Just stop posting. Please.

See the thing here is every other class can run a cheesy omg faceroll build but still have some conditon removal IN THEIR HEAL SKILL! And even when fully hunkered down a mesmer is worse with condi removal than most
Others because even the minor trait that removes with heal skills only removes ONE! So in a TEAM fight warriors will be better off against an HGH than even a full bunker mes

which builds are these uber face-roll-spend-every-point-in-offensive-trait-lines yet-still-have-reliable-cleansing-builds again?

You’re telling me you can’t find 10 pts from somewhere for Mender’s Purity? You can’t find a utility slot for Null Field or Arcane Thievery? There’s absolutely zero wiggle room in Mesmer’s build viability to afford using the right tools for the job? Clearly shatter needs a hardy nerf then as mesmers are far too dependent on it, so that ANET can best decide how the rest of the skills can be buffed to adequacy.

Make a note Devs! Mesmers are too dependent on Shatter! Sounds like Warriors and Haste all over again to me! Let’s nip this in the bud sooner rather than later!

For mesmers no… The shatter build is very specific because if we remove those 10 points from well pretty much anywhere we are giving up very good offensive utility for an ok-ish condition cleanse that doesn’t guarantee which condition is removed if we take it from Dueling then we lose deceptive evasion which is the core of all shatter builds if we take it from domination we would never be able to touch any bunker because we lose shattered concentration and if we take it from illusions we lose iPersona which is necessary for defense and offense such as interrupting a BS thief that you saw just stealth or getting that last ditch invulnerability in. We don’t use many other builds in PvP like ohh condition damage because we get confusion and it absolutely sucks in PvP…

We are very unreliable bunkers because even we have full runes of melandru and menders purity we still melt to conditions not to mention that phantasmal defender (supposed to defend us) is dependent on having a target and we can’t clear blinds fast enough to summon phantasms against this build…. So yeah if they were to make confusion in PvP worth a dam or maybe give us some form of passive condition clear in a signet then you would most definitely see mesmers using more builds… But right now we are locked into one place…

is Heart seeker’s leap, a Dmg then leap? or leap then damage ? for what i understand about the stealth mechanics is that if you do damage, you get revealed.. so it’s a bug. but for the reply in general I can tell you’re not familiar with thief. but that’s okay

I’m sure you understand why they added the GCD on shatters so I’m not even going to go there, but 1-3s cool down is basically to balance the over all combat, thief. they have easy access to the powerful stealth mechanics, and they also have great damage but when they attack, they become vulnerable, giving the other person a chance to fight back, not to mention in most situations they are on melee range.

on the other hand, mesmer have clones. and besides some of them having extraordinary damage. they also mess up the enemy’s targeting, 1 stealth will throw off your enemy for a period of time on which the Mesmer can deal 100% of its damage, at RANGE. and even on popular sword burst, where the Mesmer goes on melee range, it becomes invulnerable making the burst unstoppable unless the opponent has an instant condi remover and 2 dodges to evade the 2 waves of shatters. giving little to no chance to fight back. and even if the person survives, in little to no time the Mesmer will already have their illusions back up, leaving the person on same position, trying to find the real Mesmer while taking damge. this mechanic lacks a weakness, the equivalent of revealed in order to balance the combat. and this is specially strong vs New/Average/Casual players, they don’t have an opportunity to fight back, which is the reason Anet nerfed 100Nades.

Also, Every class is not suppose to do the same thing. that’s why some GM traits on some class are Adapt traits on another, guardian need the healing cause they are meant to go in battle and stay there, that being, said i dont think clones on dodge should be nerfed because you’re giving up evades for damage, i think is balanced. even tho it would be completely fine with a 9 icd since it’s on pair with some GM traits like “Evasive Arcana” since it provides both offensive and defensive capabilities at the same time.

If even even death, can’t stop the pet from ressing this makes this down skills much stronger than lets say a guardian’s, who are meant to stay in battles while rangers are usually main mid-long range fighters

I guess i’m wrong and ele can’t heal :P oops!

And please.. get on an engi and play the class, look at the skills, cool downs and radius before preaching nonsense about throwing elixirs lol.. oh.. and about elites.

Elite skills are especially powerful skills designed to be used infrequently and have a dramatic effect on the tide of a battle.

from the wiki, so nothing wrong with having a decently balance elite.. which btw, doest make much of a difference on PvE or WvW, specially when compared TW.. soo yea

google.3709:

is Heart seeker’s leap, a Dmg then leap? or leap then damage ? on the other hand, mesmer have clones. and besides some of them having extraordinary damage. they also mess up the enemy’s targeting, 1 stealth will throw off your enemy for a period of time on which the Mesmer can deal 100% of its damage, at RANGE. and even on popular sword burst, where the Mesmer goes on melee range, it becomes invulnerable making the burst unstoppable unless the opponent has an instant condi remover and 2 dodges to evade the 2 waves of shatters. giving little to no chance to fight back. and even if the person survives, in little to no time the Mesmer will already have their illusions back up, leaving the person on same position, trying to find the real Mesmer while taking damge. this mechanic lacks a weakness, the equivalent of revealed in order to balance the combat. and this is specially strong vs New/Average/Casual players, they don’t have an opportunity to fight back, which is the reason Anet nerfed 100Nades.

Yes the added to stop a macro that they were supposed to fix but haven’t gotten around too just like when they break something for mesmers EVERY single patch and any bug that gives us advantages is promptly smashed back down to weaker than before… and anything that hurts us is blown off. Someone is in stealth they cannot be targeted at ALL when a Mesmer has clones out they are still targetable completely new players are the only ones fooled by it and yes thief is in melee range in most situations but have you seen how much damage they can do from range as well? Cluster bomb is a powerful thing… Making mesmers unable to summon clones after they shatter is about the dumbest thing ever this class has been nerfed way more than enough already… Also the weakness to Mesmer builds is AOE conditions more so than any class because once again even if they Mesmer is in the max bunker build they go down super fast to conditions and as for the thief reply… I can tell you are not familiar with combo fields in the slightest… take engineer bomb kit (gasp I play engineer FREAKING CRAZY!) drop Big ole bomb then smoke bomb immediately smoke bomb goes off creating a smoke field then big ole bomb goes off doing damage then granting stealth… So the combo for ALL fields is damage THEN effect… So no this is not a bug.

Also, Every class is not suppose to do the same thing. that’s why some GM traits on some class are Adapt traits on another, guardian need the healing cause they are meant to go in battle and stay there, that being, said i dont think clones on dodge should be nerfed because you’re giving up evades for damage, i think is balanced. even tho it would be completely fine with a 9 icd since it’s on pair with some GM traits like “Evasive Arcana” since it provides both offensive and defensive capabilities at the same time.

This goes completely against your argument saying we shouldn’t be able to summon illusions after a shatter because that’s exactly what clone on dodge does… Also clones do no damage only phantasms do and they are built in to the weapon sets (just in case you didn’t know there buddy). And evasive arcana can heal an entire party to full or do an AOE 8 stack bleed or area might which is why the ICD exists…. And yes I agree that all classes are not meant to do everything but this build does way more than just one or two things at once hence why it needs nerfed….

And please.. get on an engi and play the class, look at the skills, cool downs and radius before preaching nonsense about throwing elixirs lol.. oh.. and about elites.

nothing wrong with having a decently balance elite.. which btw, doest make much of a difference on PvE or WvW, specially when compared TW.. soo yea

And lastly so glad you bring WvW and PvE into this argument… In those instances timewarp might make a difference but it is still capped at 5 players so the difference is minimal… This elite has an AOE stun plus damage plus healing and CC…. And timewarp CD is ridiculously long with no compensation after the quickness nerf. I have an engi… I tried this build I was disgusted with how well it did everything… The only thing it can’t do is out heal my bunker guardian… That is about it… it can clear conditions provide sustained spam AOE conditions and provide good team support…. SO yes this build needs nerfed immediately because any other class that would try going for something similar with the might stacking could simply not pull it off…. I am very familiar with engi it is generally my favorite class after Mesmer….

Sry didnt read the last few post cuz walll of text. Just wanted to add something to those huge midfighfs where an engie turns everything cuz of his aoe condis: If any class except ele or guard is standing on the mid node for more than the 5seconds they need to place their burst, they deserve to die… There’s a reason why most gc builds got a ranged weapon.. And all this bullkitten about warris being better against hgh-engies in teamfights, ae you serious?! These 6 condi-removal are ridiculous since engies stack them so fast and a mesmer can take down those 25might stacks with 1 proper shatter..

So please jportell stop spreading this false information. hgh-engies are a bit too much right now, the boon stacking is okay, the duration isnt. this is the 3rd viable engie-build, please anet dont stomp it into the ground like the others. i dont want to hear our engie qqing again, ty. btw. i play mesmer

google.3709:

is Heart seeker’s leap, a Dmg then leap? or leap then damage ? for what i understand about the stealth mechanics is that if you do damage, you get revealed.. so it’s a bug. but for the reply in general I can tell you’re not familiar with thief. but that’s okay

It seems you’re also not familiar with the thief.

the combo BP +HS gave stealth even after HS hit.

Technically, the leap finisher+ damage is considered as a whole, so you don’t get revelead after the damage ( it would make no sense even to have a combo doing stuff like that otherwise).

It has ALWAYS been like this.

If you’re referring to the normal D/P burst combo, it’s perfectly fine.

jportell.2197:

I can tell you are not familiar with combo fields in the slightest… take engineer bomb kit (gasp I play engineer FREAKING CRAZY!) drop Big ole bomb then smoke bomb immediately smoke bomb goes off creating a smoke field then big ole bomb goes off doing damage then granting stealth… So the combo for ALL fields is damage THEN effect… So no this is not a bug.

Thank you, you have now lost any sliver of credibility you might have had (which was minuscule anyways).

IF, and i repeat IF you actually tried it (which i do not believe you do for half of the statements you make) you would have noticed that the BOB and smoke field will not stealth you if you hit someone with it. You know what happens? You get this little thing called REVEALED (ask thieves what it is, or hmm i dunno a mesmer?). This also goes for detonate mine, supply crate and so on. What you will se in the little video i put together for you in a couple of mins (how long it takes you test this) is also how for example stomp works differently in the application of stealth and damage.

We have known this since beta.

EDIT: I sincerely apologize if you are trolling which is getting more plausible for every post but please then leave this for serious discussion.

Have a core trait from Mesmer ever been destroyed? or a build deleted from the game ? how about skills ? Mantras are the worst utilities Mesmer have and are wayyyy better than engineers gadgets and turrets (lots of bad skills). worst bug mesmer class have prob had is the iserker.. and it still on it’s handicapped condition it still does decent damage on PvP, maybe Anet nerf broke it on purpose because it used to be strong.

Exactly, conditions are your weakness, and engi are about condition.. i wonder what would happen if they fight ?.. meta is shirting towards conditions or am i the only seeing lots of Engi, Rangers and Necro lately.

If Big ol bomb damages anything, you get revealed.. =] trying something before bringing it up wouldn’t hurt..

not really, what happens if you have revealed and try to stealth, exactly… the debuff could be something like that limited to clones, you could still summon phantasms tho. that would be fair.

Also.. Evasive Arcana’s Cleansing Wave heals for around (1.5-2k) and Churning Earth applies 1 bleed not 8.

@jportell : I don’t understand what your point is man. I play both a mesmer and engi and I hardly see either of the two as stronger than the other. You have to understand that meta build mesmers simply cannot stand in the same spot as hgh engineers do, simply because of the team utility a mesmer brings to his team. All an engineer can do for his team to win the fight, is to drop supply crate and do damage. He does that outstandingly, but it’s all he will ever do. Mesmer has THE best revive utility in the game, it has THE only teleport skill capable of transporting yourself AND help onto your point and giant quickness field, that in spite of all everybody says about quickness these days, does a lot for your team. You still have a free utility spot that people (much to my confusion) sacrifice for a stunbreak, when all you have to do is hit #2 on staff to avoid most dps combos that would ruin your day, while you always have the option to go for distortion from F4 (which recharges when you get too low), and could instead use the slot for condi clear utility like null field. Hell, if you’re good you can even avoid any trouble by timing your #2 on sword with enemy burst. With an incredible setup like this, you still want to dominate other classes in 1v1s? Get real… And in spite of what I just said, good mesmers still win many, if not most 1v1 matchups against people, who sacrifice no utilties for their teams…

If you want to beat an engi 1v1 easy mode, drop one of the utilities (IoL or portal) and take null field + arcane thievery, believe me he’s not going to like his conditions sent back to him (he can only cleanse one condition at a time IF he has his cooldowns up). If you want his effectiveness in a teamfight, you don’t even have to try, because mesmer still IS superior in terms of what he brings for his team. You can effectively strip boons, insta-ress people, teleport across the map (you can be the extra dude in 4v5 fight, while if the engi holds close point he’ll loose it to any roamer if he goes mid). Oh, and have I forgotten to mention that mesmer burst is still one of the best in-game (with shatters having AoE effect of similar if not bigger radius than grenades, while stacking vulnerability the same), or that you can go hybrid condi and still wreck face?

Just wake up already and realize, that mesmers’ primary role is not a damage dealer, but team utility character, that just specs into damage to perform his role better. If you want to be a duelist or damage dealer, swap those team utilities out for something that helps you with the role (and good luck finding a team that’d take you in once you do ;P).

EDIT: I have also forgotten to add, that those 25 stacks of might look juicy enough to consider arcane thievery full time.

google.3709:

Have a core trait from Mesmer ever been destroyed? or a build deleted from the game ? how about skills ? Mantras are the worst utilities Mesmer have and are wayyyy better than engineers gadgets and turrets (lots of bad skills). worst bug mesmer class have prob had is the iserker.. and it still on it’s handicapped condition it still does decent damage on PvP, maybe Anet nerf broke it on purpose because it used to be strong.

Exactly, conditions are your weakness, and engi are about condition.. i wonder what would happen if they fight ?.. meta is shirting towards conditions or am i the only seeing lots of Engi, Rangers and Necro lately.

If Big ol bomb damages anything, you get revealed.. =] trying something before bringing it up wouldn’t hurt..

not really, what happens if you have revealed and try to stealth, exactly… the debuff could be something like that limited to clones, you could still summon phantasms tho. that would be fair.

Also.. Evasive Arcana’s Cleansing Wave heals for around (1.5-2k) and Churning Earth applies 1 bleed not 8.

Core traits for Mesmer ever been destroyed well lets see there is shattered strength which didn’t work properly before, but then was nerfed after they got it to work somewhat well…. Illusionary elasticity seems to have a wonky range on it. Illusionary persona does not proc a might stack from shattered strength which we live with but they have never acknowledged whether or not this is a bug… Mantra’s out right suck for the most part the traits for them are in very weird places. OH and lets not forget that in general the only grand master line that we go into is in illusions because for the most part our other grand masters suck all over. And yes the meta is shifting toward conditions which means that ANet needs to take a serious look at how classes deal with conditions when you have the only class in game that cannot remove conditions with a heal skill you start to see that class fade out…. Do I think Mesmer need condition removal on par with guardians? No… Do we need better then what we got… Absolutely… There is cleansing conflagration which doesn’t remove all conditions were lucky if it removes two… If it removed all would make the torch cool in pvp except confusion sucks and this trait needs an entire rework…. And I also see engineers make good work with turrets if they are so bad then why even use supply drop? I mean its nothing but turrets so no way it could be helpful right?

And there is absolutely no need for a debuff for mesmers to limit their clones after a shatter once again that is going to be so crippling to the Mesmer class. And another reason why you don’t see so many mesmers lately is that ANET seems to enjoy destroying our skills without even mentioning it in the patch notes. And no iZerker messing up is not intentional on their part they have acknowledged this and are clueless on how to fix it… And the kit refinement trait made things like bomb kit a little more enticing because now you have a magnetic bomb that pulls enemies into the blast… That’s no 100nades but still pretty good. And to the person that think IOL is absolutely amazing engineers have toss elixir R which is permanent kind of like signet of undeath, battle standard, so on….These are all way better than IOL because IOL is temporary. And my team likes me on my Mesmer if we have a bunker guard with us… If not then I am on my bunker guard cuz that build is nearly unkillable… Except for one thing. THIS build…. ANet needs a look at condition damage might stacking and the way they all work in this build overall.

Engis have always been very good bordering on op… but not as much as ele.

jportell.2197:

google.3709:

Have a core trait from Mesmer ever been destroyed? or a build deleted from the game ? how about skills ? Mantras are the worst utilities Mesmer have and are wayyyy better than engineers gadgets and turrets (lots of bad skills). worst bug mesmer class have prob had is the iserker.. and it still on it’s handicapped condition it still does decent damage on PvP, maybe Anet nerf broke it on purpose because it used to be strong.

Exactly, conditions are your weakness, and engi are about condition.. i wonder what would happen if they fight ?.. meta is shirting towards conditions or am i the only seeing lots of Engi, Rangers and Necro lately.

If Big ol bomb damages anything, you get revealed.. =] trying something before bringing it up wouldn’t hurt..

not really, what happens if you have revealed and try to stealth, exactly… the debuff could be something like that limited to clones, you could still summon phantasms tho. that would be fair.

Also.. Evasive Arcana’s Cleansing Wave heals for around (1.5-2k) and Churning Earth applies 1 bleed not 8.

Core traits for Mesmer ever been destroyed well lets see there is shattered strength which didn’t work properly before, but then was nerfed after they got it to work somewhat well…. Illusionary elasticity seems to have a wonky range on it. Illusionary persona does not proc a might stack from shattered strength which we live with but they have never acknowledged whether or not this is a bug… Mantra’s out right suck for the most part the traits for them are in very weird places. OH and lets not forget that in general the only grand master line that we go into is in illusions because for the most part our other grand masters suck all over. And yes the meta is shifting toward conditions which means that ANet needs to take a serious look at how classes deal with conditions when you have the only class in game that cannot remove conditions with a heal skill you start to see that class fade out…. Do I think Mesmer need condition removal on par with guardians? No… Do we need better then what we got… Absolutely… There is cleansing conflagration which doesn’t remove all conditions were lucky if it removes two… If it removed all would make the torch cool in pvp except confusion sucks and this trait needs an entire rework…. And I also see engineers make good work with turrets if they are so bad then why even use supply drop? I mean its nothing but turrets so no way it could be helpful right?

And there is absolutely no need for a debuff for mesmers to limit their clones after a shatter once again that is going to be so crippling to the Mesmer class. And another reason why you don’t see so many mesmers lately is that ANET seems to enjoy destroying our skills without even mentioning it in the patch notes. And no iZerker messing up is not intentional on their part they have acknowledged this and are clueless on how to fix it… And the kit refinement trait made things like bomb kit a little more enticing because now you have a magnetic bomb that pulls enemies into the blast… That’s no 100nades but still pretty good. And to the person that think IOL is absolutely amazing engineers have toss elixir R which is permanent kind of like signet of undeath, battle standard, so on….These are all way better than IOL because IOL is temporary. And my team likes me on my Mesmer if we have a bunker guard with us… If not then I am on my bunker guard cuz that build is nearly unkillable… Except for one thing. THIS build…. ANet needs a look at condition damage might stacking and the way they all work in this build overall.

Okay, troll confirmed, moving on.

As in saying we use supply drop mainly for the turrets. As if our alternatives (RNG elite (either solo CC or aoe point control) or stationary weak turret that needs to be manually operated and dies to one aoe) are better alternatives. Boy would i kill just for mass invisibility. Also decline from what? every player not playing bunker guard or ele?
Oh yeah but i suppose its a dead giveaway that he argues that kit refinement is competitive.

A bunker which does not die except to this build? So why do we need to remove it again?

Good night sir.

Yup screw you guys. I’m out… There are several things about this build that are over the top making it able to do several things at once… And mass invis is great how ooo 5 seconds of invis… Timewar kitten till better than mass invis but they are both bottom tier elites… mesmers have pretty much no good elites in the current meta? Yeah I know elixir R sucks and mortar maybe people need to give it more of a chance… In pvp it may be useless but in wvw and against certain bosses in dungeons its pretty much required…. And the point I am making is a bunker build is supposed to be able to muscle through dang near anything… The amount of condition AOE spam which like it or not takes no skill in this build is making it over the top… And good night to you… Can’t wait for might stack runes to be nerfed.

jportell.2197:

Yup screw you guys. I’m out… Can’t wait for might stack runes to be nerfed.

You seriously think that will do it, some of us have been playing Grenade/Condi from the start without might stacking runes!

The ignorance of some people… -_-

• Mesmer could have up 5 Condi removal if they went 30 points into a defensive trait, like HGH or Ele does… and that’s not including wep skills or utility skills, if you spec for it, Mesmer could have up to 10 condition removals :P

• Condi builds are always more durable than glass cannons! ( GC: Kill fast, break easy…) and even so, GC mesmer have more survival than any other gc class.

• Null field, Phantasmal Disenchanter, Arcane Thievery.. steals boons, rids of conditions… that sounds strong VS a class based around boons and conditions wouldn’t you say :]

bottom line, all this arguing is out of ignorance, trying to compared a class that builds around survival vs class who doesnt, and expect them to have the same survival :P

Also, it’s kinda sad because you don’t seem to have much knowledge about your class outside your shatter build, maybe mesmers need a nerf so they are forced like engineers to look for new builds after every patch ;p

Im tired of the 1000 engineers with this build already. Its needs to be nerfed. I have no clue how difficult it is to play but when I see a cookie cutter build for a class it tells me its op.

google.3709:

The ignorance of some people… -_-

• Mesmer could have up 5 Condi removal if they went 30 points into a defensive trait, like HGH or Ele does… and that’s not including wep skills or utility skills, if you spec for it, Mesmer could have up to 10 condition removals :P

• Condi builds are always more durable than glass cannons! ( GC: Kill fast, break easy…) and even so, GC mesmer have more survival than any other gc class.

• Null field, Phantasmal Disenchanter, Arcane Thievery.. steals boons, rids of conditions… that sounds strong VS a class based around boons and conditions wouldn’t you say :]

bottom line, all this arguing is out of ignorance, trying to compared a class that builds around survival vs class who doesnt, and expect them to have the same survival :P

Also, it’s kinda sad because you don’t seem to have much knowledge about your class outside your shatter build, maybe mesmers need a nerf so they are forced like engineers to look for new builds after every patch ;p

so we get one trait that removes conditions with shatters and use nothing but condition removal skills there by destroying our DPS and team utility…. That makes a condition removal Mesmer viable how? And mesmers have gotten screwed every patch since release… If its not a nerf it is something that gets broken see phantasm not summon on blind block or invuln see portal increase… see quickness nerf with no compensation for timewarp see broken illusionary berserker see shattered strength. Should I go on….
Even if we trait all the way for shattered conditions that is one condition per shatter not illusion and also it destroys the viability of any shatter build… What would be nice is if cleansing conflagration actually cleared all conditions making torch somewhat better… Phantasmal disenchanter has a ridiculously long cast time and can’t be summoned if we are blinded since they are target bound arcane thievery has a weird range as well and misses a lot so that leaves us with mantra of resolve and null field only curing conditions slowly there by also leaving us in tourneys with just portal… So we have no stun breaks and limited power. So how exactly does that help us there princess?

In reality we only have slot for one condition removal if our team doesn’t want portal or iol and that leaves us with no stun breaks… And do not talk about staff because not all mesmers use it and iLeap is only if you are lucky to get it… So once again you are showing how little you know about the viability of certain Mesmer builds in tourney… One that goes that far into inspiration isn’t doing much for his team. And even our defensive traits aren’t that good… the healing from restorative illusions is negligible and the condition clearing from shattered conditions isn’t per illusion its per shatter.

Kwll.1468:

Im tired of the 1000 engineers with this build already. Its needs to be nerfed. I have no clue how difficult it is to play but when I see a cookie cutter build for a class it tells me its op.

Infallible reasoning right there. Excellent post and great point.

Kwll.1468:

Im tired of the 1000 engineers with this build already. Its needs to be nerfed. I have no clue how difficult it is to play but when I see a cookie cutter build for a class it tells me its op.

Only build we seem to have at the moment. Although if you’d like to try to find another build for the OP engineer go for it.

LoL. Sorry if someone feel me like trolling here but I can not stop the urge to expressly opinion. And also sorry for not being constructive.

Engine call Op and all other class on Eles. Fair enough.
Mesmer and all other class call Op on Engine.
Thief and all other class call Op on Ranger for the pet deal way too dams.
And the list go on and on.

It is like an endless loop of Opness. And people never stop crying for nerf as long as it is not on their favor. Shame on the all QQer.I wonder when u will all grow up and learn to play the class.

I see Engine is fine ATM, and No I don’t main an Engineer,worst, I play OP Eles. I tried Engine the other day, HGH build, completely wreck on my face. Because I am new to Engine and I need to learn how the Engine works to make it works. All other classes are the same, even with Warrior. Why one person can dominate in PvP with War while other can’t, and they call the class being UP? And when one person find it hard to defeat a class,they call the class OP? Not so long ago, Engine was considered as one of the worst class out there and Boom, people call for OP?Once War dominate PvP and Boom, people see it as one of the worst class whilst I remember there is no major nerf to War and the class was one getting quite a lot of buff.Correct me if I am wrong though. With the nerf of Quickness,Boom,War is no more viable in PvP? Should I call people being so simple minded,relying too much on one skill to kill? My 2c here is Be creative people,and learn to play your class properly and counter other class. I believe in the beginning, all class was balanced (devs not too stupid to get one class is way too much different than other),then people call for nerf and buff here and there (because they don’t know about learning and adapt), we got into the mess right now. I could say we could have much more enjoyable gaming experience with so much content if the Devs not always get their hand full of what you call " balanced" issue. So stop QQ,grow up and adapt please. A skill sword master can make a shard sword out of a piece of wood while the unskilled one,even with a legendary sword, he can not cut anything. Keep calling for nerf, good people will find a way to make it good while bad player still keep QQer.

Sorry if my post confuse you guys or lost in the forest of text,I typed is while brain storming.

Cheer

Stealth.9324:

LoL. Sorry if someone feel me like trolling here but I can not stop the urge to expressly opinion. And also sorry for not being constructive.

Engine call Op and all other class on Eles. Fair enough.
Mesmer and all other class call Op on Engine.
Thief and all other class call Op on Ranger for the pet deal way too dams.
And the list go on and on.

It is like an endless loop of Opness. And people never stop crying for nerf as long as it is not on their favor. Shame on the all QQer.I wonder when u will all grow up and learn to play the class.

I see Engine is fine ATM, and No I don’t main an Engineer,worst, I play OP Eles. I tried Engine the other day, HGH build, completely wreck on my face. Because I am new to Engine and I need to learn how the Engine works to make it works. All other classes are the same, even with Warrior. Why one person can dominate in PvP with War while other can’t, and they call the class being UP? And when one person find it hard to defeat a class,they call the class OP? Not so long ago, Engine was considered as one of the worst class out there and Boom, people call for OP?Once War dominate PvP and Boom, people see it as one of the worst class whilst I remember there is no major nerf to War and the class was one getting quite a lot of buff.Correct me if I am wrong though. With the nerf of Quickness,Boom,War is no more viable in PvP? Should I call people being so simple minded,relying too much on one skill to kill? My 2c here is Be creative people,and learn to play your class properly and counter other class. I believe in the beginning, all class was balanced (devs not too stupid to get one class is way too much different than other),then people call for nerf and buff here and there (because they don’t know about learning and adapt), we got into the mess right now. I could say we could have much more enjoyable gaming experience with so much content if the Devs not always get their hand full of what you call " balanced" issue. So stop QQ,grow up and adapt please. A skill sword master can make a shard sword out of a piece of wood while the unskilled one,even with a legendary sword, he can not cut anything. Keep calling for nerf, good people will find a way to make it good while bad player still keep QQer.

Sorry if my post confuse you guys or lost in the forest of text,I typed is while brain storming.

Cheer

Completley agree with you! +1! Kudos to you!

Except for mesmers.. they are really OP…

Maethar.5627:

Engis are close to eles in strength right now but their fix is much simpler in my opinion, just reduce hgh stacks duration and then re-evaluate their strength. Honestly I’m surprised that there is minimal qq about engis considering how powerful they are at the moment.

And those of us playing that build continue to think about making threads like “It’s time to nerf Thieves” but we don’t. Yet, we’re all thinking it. Same old QQ.

Cinaed.2649:

Maethar.5627:

Engis are close to eles in strength right now but their fix is much simpler in my opinion, just reduce hgh stacks duration and then re-evaluate their strength. Honestly I’m surprised that there is minimal qq about engis considering how powerful they are at the moment.

And those of us playing that build continue to think about making threads like “It’s time to nerf Thieves” but we don’t. Yet, we’re all thinking it. Same old QQ.

doesn’t this build have elixir S? Isn’t that a stun break… Doesn’t this build also have toughness…. Playing this their should be 0 issues with thieves

jportell.2197:

Cinaed.2649:

Maethar.5627:

Engis are close to eles in strength right now but their fix is much simpler in my opinion, just reduce hgh stacks duration and then re-evaluate their strength. Honestly I’m surprised that there is minimal qq about engis considering how powerful they are at the moment.

And those of us playing that build continue to think about making threads like “It’s time to nerf Thieves” but we don’t. Yet, we’re all thinking it. Same old QQ.

doesn’t this build have elixir S? Isn’t that a stun break… Doesn’t this build also have toughness…. Playing this their should be 0 issues with thieves

This build does have trouble with thieves because of the single stun break and weakness to headshot. If a thief plays very well he has excellent opportunity to kill an HGH engi like most other classes.

jportell.2197:

Cinaed.2649:

Maethar.5627:

Engis are close to eles in strength right now but their fix is much simpler in my opinion, just reduce hgh stacks duration and then re-evaluate their strength. Honestly I’m surprised that there is minimal qq about engis considering how powerful they are at the moment.

And those of us playing that build continue to think about making threads like “It’s time to nerf Thieves” but we don’t. Yet, we’re all thinking it. Same old QQ.

doesn’t this build have elixir S? Isn’t that a stun break… Doesn’t this build also have toughness…. Playing this their should be 0 issues with thieves

lol a thief is kinda like the best counter to hgh engies.

if you have elixir s on CD ( and usually, even when you don’t, as long as the thief is good and fakes his burst), you’re pretty much dead without any chance to react.

omg there’s too much fuss around hgh engies, they’re strong but not gamebreaking.

The ele is gambreaking. Why don’t you QQ about the ele, like every sane person ?

I see what the op is getting at. Engi is a hard class to play and those who use a specific build and masters the class can be op. But I say 80% of engi’s are not op and need help.

RaynStargaze.6510:

Just so we get on the same point here..

Ostricheggs who claims HgH is OP so valiantly actually has:

ALMOST 1200!!!! tourney games on ladder! (so 1200 games ever since ladder started counting which is an insane! number)
over 5000!!!! matches played on engineer

honestly WHAT kitten! Ostrich is just that good – the build doesnt really matter in his case.

The number of other engineers doing solo qeue and still making top1000 is pretty darn limited (in fact there are 0 others i know of other than Ostrich but you can educate me on that!)

Then again you can make top 1000 with a few lucky wins in a row so maybe its not that representative.

Here are a few easy pro tips how to counter HgH engineer for easy instawins:

- STAY ON RANGE whatever the kitten you do dont get in close – all engi dps comes in close range/nades get harder to dodge point blank and blowtorch is only really worth using when in close
- DODGE SHRAPNEL
- DODGE BLOWTORCH
- KITE ENGI HgH engi is actually really bad at kiting unless the opponent allows himself to be kited – aside from the chill grenade on 16 sek cd and the aoe cripple from pistol on 25 or 20 sek cd (which can both be dodged very easily) – so in a logical row with what i said previously just kite the engi yourself instead and walk out of his nades (yes you dont even need to dodgeroll as long as you dont get too close)

ezezezezez

Me. I’m at the low end like ~900 but still there.

I talked to Hammon in game who is a dev and he said HGH is getting nerfed. Gadgets are not being worked on at the moment and basically nothing else lol.

Maybe instead of nerfing HGH, it’s time to buff gadgets/turrets so that we can actually see some build variety.

Though I do think that this whole whine is silly – there’s no difference between learning to move left to right to dodge grenades as there is knowing when to dodge a Mesmers shatter. You give up so much to maintain those 15~ stacks of might that I wouldn’t mind to see the build replaced though.